thelastPope:

That is not how to fault a budget. What is important to each state is very different. You and I might not like it but that is the way it is. Many of those states fully sponsors their students to try and force them to get good education else they will not even have 1 graduate in 5 years.

TouchDown: This thread has been a waste of my time. Came to see if there would be any information on the amount budgeted for feeding but I didn't see any. When you assert something, the onus is on you to prove that which you assert. This has been a one-sided affair and I'm not happy. I came to see a good debate, I don't like the way Gbawe and Naptu rode roughshod on you.

'Sincere' my good man, you're not doing a good job. You need to buckle up. I don't like the way you keep getting a.s.s-whooped on these threads.

FG spends N9bn annually on 10-aircraft presidential fleet

DECEMBER 5, 2012 BY OYETUNJI ABIOYE


INFORMATION obtained from government aviation agencies and airline operators has revealed that President Goodluck Jonathan-led administration spends an estimated N9.08bn annually on the Presidential Air Fleet.

PAF has the third largest fleet of aircraft in the country. According to findings, the PAF contains a total of 10 aircraft, coming closely behind Aerocontractors Airlines, which has a total of 14 aircraft.

Arik Air, the largest commercial airline in the country, has a fleet of 23 aircraft.

Figures obtained from the Nigerian Airspace Management Agency, Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria, and the Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority revealed that N9.08bn is spent to maintain the 10 presidential jets every year.

The PAF include two Falcon 7X jets, two Falcon 900 jets, Gulfstream 550, one Boeing 737 BBJ (Nigerian Air Force 001 or Eagle One), and Gulfstream IVSP.

Others are one Gulfstream V, Cessna Citation 2 aircraft and Hawker Siddley 125-800 jet.

Cost of running fleet

According to a former Minister of Information, Professor, Dora Akunyili, each of the two Falcon 7X jets purchased in 2010 cost $51.1m, while the Gulfstream 550 costs $53.3m.

The factory price of other aircraft in the fleet could not be easily obtained online. However, airline CEOs put the average price of Falcon 900 at $35m, Gulfstream IVSP as $40m, Gulfstream V at $45m, Boeing 737 BBJ at $58m, Cessna Citation is $7m and Hawker Siddley 125-800 at $15m.

This brings a combined estimated value of Nigeria’s PAF to $390.5m (N60.53bn).

According to airline chief executives and industry experts, airlines spend between 15 and 20 per cent of the cost of an aircraft on its operation yearly. They say that averagely, a little less than one-fifth of the cost of the plane is spent every year on insurance, flight and cabin crew, maintenance, fuelling, catering and training.

Going by the fact that at least 15 per cent of this amount is spent annually on operating the PAF, it means about $58.57m (N9.08bn ) is spent annually on running the planes .

Nigeria happens to be one of few countries of the world with a large PAF.

[size=14pt]Other countries’ fleets[/size]

[b]Most major countries in Europe and Asia maintain mostly two aircraft in their Presidential Air Fleet, according to Wikipedia.

According to the website, Japan maintains only two Boeing 747-400 planes in its Presidential Air Fleet.

The two aircraft, mostly for the Prime Minister, the Emperor, Empress and other members of the Imperial Family, is operated by the Japan Air Self-Defence Force.

The aircraft were constructed at the Boeing factory at the same time as the United States’ Air Force One. Both Japanese aircraft were delivered in 1990.

Wikipedia also confirms that the Netherlands government operates only two aircraft, one Fokker 70 and one Gulfstream IV, as a means of transport for the Dutch Royal family and government officials, such as the prime minister and other ministers.

They are also used also to attend international conferences, and also for private trips by the Queen and the Prince of Orange.

For long haul trips the Royal Dutch Airline is used. Often the upper deck of a Boeing 747 is used.

The Queen of England and Prime Minister David Cameron often go on British Airways chartered flights for long trips. UK’s Cameron was recently criticised by the UK media for chartering a foreign plane instead of a British’s.

According to Wikipedia, The Royal Squadron of the Royal Air Force maintains a fleet of Agusta A109 helicopters, BAE-125 mid-sized business jet and BAE-146 regional airliner to support short travel by the Royal Family, the Prime Minister and senior members of the British Government.

Countries like Ghana, Algeria and a host of others in Europe maintain only one aircraft in their PAF.
[/b]


Domestic airlines

The latest revelation on Nigeria’s PAF size is coming amid dearth of aircraft among domestic airlines, which lack adequate finance to buy more planes to meet up with the soaring domestic passenger capacity.

Apart from Arik Air and Aero, each of the remaining domestic airlines does not possess even half of the number of aircraft in the PAF, according to findings by our correspondent.

IRS Airlines has only four operational aircraft in its fleet; Dana Air has four aircraft; Firstnation, three aircraft; and Medview Airlines, two aircraft; figures obtained from the industry revealed.

In recent months, domestic travellers have been scrambling to get air tickets due to lack of capacity on the part of the other local airlines, after the suspension of operations by Dana Air, Air Nigeria and FirstNation Airlines respectively.

Apart from Arik and Aero, most of the domestic airlines fell behind the PAF in terms of the number of aircraft in their fleet.

These include Air Nigeria, Dana Air, IRS Airlines, FirstNation Airlines, Medview Airlines, Overland Airways and Associated Airlines.

Airline CEOs opinions

Some airline CEOs, who pleaded anonymity, raised concerns over the economic sense behind the large mix of brands of aircraft in the President Air Fleet.

They said although the fleet size was large, the cost of operation would have been cheaper if they had maintained only two brands, instead of more.

According to them, the various brands of aircraft in the fleet will cost the Presidency more in terms of money being spent on aircraft maintenance, insurance, engineers, flight and cabin crew among others.

“If you look at the Presidential Fleet, you have at least five different brands of aircraft manufacturers. In that single Presidential Fleet, you have Boeing, Falcons, Gulfstream, Hawker and Cessna: that is not less than four different brands from various countries. I don’t know the economic sense in this. The fleet needs to be streamlined from five to just two brands. The aircraft can’t see each other. It means each of those planes will have its own flight crew, cabin crew, engineers, dispatchers etc. It is a mismatch. The Presidency will be spending more to keep all of them in the skies. Going by airline economics, you spend less when you focus on a single brand or at most two. You will get support from the manufacturers and then you spend less,” the CEO of a domestic airline, who pleaded anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the matter, told our correspondent.

“Look at IRS, it has only one brand, all its four planes are all from Fokker; look at First Nation, it has only Airbus. All its three planes are all Airbus A319. Look at Dana, all its four planes are all Boeing MD-83s. Look at Aero, It has only Boeing and Bombardier planes, just two brands. That is how to run a fleet of aircraft with economic sense. You don’t need more than two. Globally, it is the same thing. South West Airlines in USA has hundreds of planes and they are all from one single brand, Boeing. I think they need to streamline the fleet to just two brands to minimise the cost of running them. By that, there will be a reduction in the number of the crews they will be using to fly them” the CEO added.

Spokesman for the President, Mr. Reuben Abati, could not be reached for comments on the PAF. Telephone calls made to his telephone line was not picked, while a text message sent was not also replied.



PAF workforce

According to the NAF’s website, PAF’s current staff strength consists of 47 NAF officers, 173 airmen/airwomen and 96 civilian staff, both technical and administrative.

“The operational headquarters of the Fleet is located at the Presidential Wing of the Nnamdi Azikiwe International Airport, Abuja, while the administrative personnel are at the Federal Secretariat. The fleet has a liaison office at the Presidential Villa. Flight operations, training, aircraft maintenance and general running of the fleet are funded by the Presidency,” according to the website.

Demdem:

Actually that post of mine u qouted was a response to urs that went off from the topic itself.
When u say entertainment, what do u mean? who is fashola entertaining? We have seen pictures of fashola receiving guests and he doesnt entertain. u will need to prove that fashola entertains probably with fanta or coke or lacasera and then ask how much he used to purchase such in a financial year. Again take a look at fashola receiving another visitor. Not even water. The place is not even configured for such. so simple.

_{Come to think of it, na wa for fashola ooooo, haba}

thelastPope:

Demdem, this is one of the most ridiculous and unintelligent things I have ever heard! So you think entertainment is when the governor puts a bottle of moet on the table while talking to his guest? Haba! I thought you were better than this. You are justs disgracing me, walahi!

thelastPope:

That link is a financial summery not a budget breakdown. There are no details of expenditure there!

Guk:

@lastpope, and you can defend this type of budget? I recall that u said you have abt 40+ pple in your employment, am not sure your budget wld look like Bauchi's

"The Bauchi State government budgeted N138.7 billion for 2012, an increase of about N21 billion over the amount in 2011. Yuguda intends to finance the 2012 budget with N69 billion from FAAC, a paltry N7.3 billion as IGR and another N58 billion as loans. In what should be a violation of any sound fiscal responsibility law, nearly 40% of the budget will be financed through borrowing for two years in a row. In 2011, Bauchi State’s domestic debt was about N91 billion, so by the end of the year, Bauchi would be in debt to the tune of some N150 billion. Public debt charges this year is some N6.3 billion and rising. It looks like Yuguda is determined to leave behind a debt-ridden, if not financially insolvent state!"

Demdem:

it goes beyond that but most obviously starts from there. That is why we are asking u to bring out evidence of such things occurring at all. If after the public gathering, there is an exchange of envelopes or feast going on afterwards, let us know. U av said nothing so far.

Guk:

@lastpope, you have fallen my hand by this statement. Am disappointed! This is a document of 56 pages that tells the whole world how much was budgeted and how much has bn spent so far carefully detailed and presented at the State Executive meeting by Hon Comm Ben Akabueze. Pls go and read it again and be educated http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/subpage.php?k=35

seanet01: First go to your Gully erosion pervaded east and ask them how much their mummy governors are using to feed their kidnappers every year.
Lagosphobia is truly your problem

thelastPope:

Have you ever heard of the word "subjective" and "relative"? I dont have to defend the budget. Am just letting you know that you cannot say a budget is bad because the items are not like LASG budget. Is that not clear enough? I dont even want to read the bauchi budget because I believe the items will annoy me. Like if I see millions being spent on pilgrimage. But, my point is, that might just be what is obtainable in that part of the world. In terms of borrowing, you could say the same for LASG. They are borrowing massively too!

thelastPope:

This statement can only come from someone who have never been to a government function. Even in advanced countries, about all government functions have some form of entertainment. You have just showed you are no where close to government but are just a pawn in the scheme of things, no offence!

thelastPope:

Have you ever heard of the word "subjective" and "relative"? I dont have to defend the budget. Am just letting you know that you cannot say a budget is bad because the items are not like LASG budget. Is that not clear enough? I dont even want to read the bauchi budget because I believe the items will annoy me. Like if I see millions being spent on pilgrimage. But, my point is, that might just be what is obtainable in that part of the world. In terms of borrowing, you could say the same for LASG. They are borrowing massively too!

Demdem: @lost pope

For example, look at Governor Dickson who became a governor months ago entertaining and enjoying life Dont u think its will be much more reasonable if this thread was directed at the bayelsa governor demanding how much he budgets for entertainment in a financial year? This is more like it.

thelastPope:

Demdem, I will not follow you on this your BRT ride! Just for the last time. There is always entertainment in government functions and events and no one has said it is wrong in the first place. The only thing the @op asked is how much was budgeted for it. GEJ Aso rock food expenses is not even wrong and no one has said it is. The only debate is how much and how justifiable the amount is. Stay on topic!

And we are saying (at least for now) Fashola does not entertain We have pictures to butress this fact. Bring urs up also and lets discuss it.

thelastPope:

My good friend, you are throwing links around like ping pong! I have already seen the one that has some breakdown and there is no governors expenditure there. That is why I posted that of the chief of staff.

Guk:

Point of correction, i didnt compare Lagos Budget wt Bauchi budget. I only used Bauchi as an example of Bad Budget wen u said there are none.

True, Lagos is borrowing massively, but for the umpteenth time, read this properly and you will see how LASG services its debts.http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/subpage.php?k=35
LASG does not use loan to service debts. LASG IGR is enough to run the engine of the state and they can tie proceeds of the their projects to pay back loans see one explanation here https://www.nairaland.com/1164136/fashola-denies-obtaining-15m-export-import

Guk:

You have seen it but you have not read it, cos if you have, you will respect the transperency and accountability of LASG

naptu2: Page 5! And still no evidence of state banquet or food budget!

thelastPope: Actually, from the documents I have seen so far, it will very difficult to audit the LASG! The items are not detailed. The auditor will have to make a lot of assumptions. "Personnel Expenses" is a very vague term! It can range from a cigarette to a tissue paper to cinema tickets! lol

thelastPope: Actually, from the documents I have seen so far, it will very difficult to audit the LASG! The items are not detailed. The auditor will have to make a lot of assumptions. "Personnel Expenses" is a very vague term! It can range from a cigarette to a tissue paper to cinema tickets! lol

Guk:

@lastpope; @lastpope; @lastpope!!! How many times did i call you?? Conduct audit? with a quarterly review document? A document that only highlights? What do u want to see there, Hon Comm stating how much Baba Kamoru the head driver collects??

At ds juncture, I don waka!

Afam4eva: It's funny how some people are implying that the LASG does not budget for food. Which money do they use in purchasing the food they eat at Alausa? All the dinners they host all year round, where does the money come from? Is it Fashola's private money that he uses to do all these things?

Demdem:

The Auditor will always ask for supporting documents. receipts, vouchers etc. That budget is auditable especially when implemented (whatever that means). Dont start again with that madness. stick with ur entertainment story.

thelastPope:

That is why it isnt a budget. A budget is done before you implement, not after. So in a budget, you cant just say "personnel expenses". It wont fly. It would have being nice if the actual budget is available!

thelastPope:

Demdem, you are stealing my lines...

I have really impacted your life. Admit it!

lostpope, i have my reasons for that and gat nothing to do with u
besides the word audit means - official scrutiny of accounts.

Guk:

@kutchs, you are the simpleton. pls educate yourself before u post online.

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/lagos-sound-govt-sensible-budget/114107/
http://mobile.saharareporters.com/article/lagos-sound-government-sensible-budget
"Lagos state is one of the few in the country which has a well detailed and structured budget made available to the public on the state Government’s website which is fully functional. The budgets are properly explained and broken down by the MDAs with expenditures and revenues properly accounted for. Also, the state posts its budget performance reviews online which indicates transparency and accountability in governance. It is ironic that even with the enactment of freedom of information and fiscal responsibility acts, most State Governments still hide their budgets and breakdowns from the citizens of their states and the general public."

Gbawe:
If there is no documented figure anywhere detailing budget allocation for the feeding of the Governor's office, why run around with gossip, fabrication and assumptions when a reasonable and balanced person will work with reality and the official figures available/unavailable to make decisions? The only conclusion critical thinkers , used to working with facts, can draw is that there is no substantial expenditure attached to feeding the office of the Governor of Lagos State. Anything else is market woman gossip.