Ignatio:

Honestly I did got confused. Opposing comments like these make me wonder why Christianity is filled with controversy and confusion. (another topic for another day sha.)

I asked the question because of observations I made. I don't know if you guys noticed too.

A trend is slowly growing in this world and it's turning out to be a norm.

The girlfriend and boyfriend relationship is becoming more important than husband and wife relationship.

Thus having babies out of wedlock gets applause ( Gerard Pique and Shakira, Lionel Messi, 2face, Ballotelli, Obafemi Martins, Ice Prince, C. Ronaldo and a whole lot of others).

It is written sin is punishable but I see no form of punishment in these people's lives. Or are they immuned.

The earlier we know the truth the better for us.

And again it's now weird to be single.

So I asked why is sex a sin?

@Ignatio

Ignatio, I didn't want to be embroiled, as such in the "Why Is Sex A Sin?" question

however for sanity & clarity sake, it has to be corrected that sex, by and/or in itself, is not a sin

What is sinful or is a sin, is having, offering, giving, participating or partaking in illicit, unapproved, frowned-upon, inappropriate, unusual etc sex.

Don't paint genuine Christians with the same brush as everyone (e.g. Gerard Pique and Shakira, Lionel Messi, 2face, Ballotelli, Obafemi Martins, Ice Prince, C. Ronaldo and a whole lot of others)

Christians that are having se.x, without commitment, loyalty, faithfulness until death do them part are fakes, dubious and of questionable character

At any rate, Christians, ideally and better still, ought to be making love, going beyond ordinarily having s.ex

As an afterthought, Ignatio, you might want give the definition of sex, (i.e. what is sex) so as to confirm whether or not sex is sin.

moredendisc:

@Ignatio

Ignatio, I didn't want to be embroiled, as such in the "Why Is Sex A Sin?" question

however for sanity & clarity sake, it has to be corrected that sex, by and/or in itself, is not a sin

What is sinful or is a sin, is having, offering, giving, participating or partaking in illicit, unapproved, frowned-upon, inappropriate, unusual etc sex.

Christians that are having se.x, without commitment, loyalty, faithfulness until death do them part are dubious and of questionable character

At any rate, Christians, ideally and better still, ought to be making love, going beyond ordinarily having s.ex

Thank you brother!

Ignatio: Honestly I did got confused. Opposing comments like these make me wonder why Christianity is filled with controversy and confusion. ( another topic for another day sha.)

Every discipline and institution is wroth with controversy & confusion.It is not just a christian phenomenon.

I asked the question because of observations I made. I don't know if you guys noticed too. A trend is slowly growing in this world and it's turning out to be a norm.

The girlfriend and boyfriend relationship is becoming more important than husband and wife relationship. Thus having babies out of wedlock gets applause ( Gerard Pique and Shakira, Lionel Messi, 2face, Ballotelli, Obafemi Martins, Ice Prince, C. Ronaldo and a whole lot of others).

It is written sin is punishable but I see no form of punishment in these people's lives. Or are they immuned.
The earlier we know the truth the better for us.

And again it's now weird to be single.

Mehn.., Reading the above, all I can do is smh!!!

So the reason you favour the "out of wedlock" option is because it's becoming a trend of celebrities, abi?? This is typical drone mentality. You follow the crowd and are mind-controlled. Why not try thinking for yourself? you'd be surprised how much good it can do for your personality and self-esteem. If all the people you mentioned above are now killing their mothers would you join them too?? And you have the effrontery to point the accusing fingers at christians? Seriously, this is amongst the worst kind of argument a "smart" person can make.

As for me, I choose the out-of-wedluck relationship because that's what makes the most sense to me, both spiritually and secularly. My christian opinions are very unconventional, very un-mainstream, but that's the truth for me, that's the way it's gonna be until a better truth(if at all. I doubt) comes along.

Free your mind bro..

The reason why we are in these mess in Christianity is because many of us do not think there was bible before the KJV. God has been talking to his people right from Genesis and it wasn't in KJV. You want to tell me God spoken in KJV when he spoke to people in Genesis? KJV is ONLY a name of a TRANSLATION or translated VERSION. God didn't speak in ENGLISH either. Many of us are arguing blindly because religion said it and we accepted it in the first place. It's time to put everything religion taught you into scrutiny and be like the Bereans - Go and search out the truth. I challenge you!

Goshen360:

My dear sister,

You're helping to make my point very clear. Now, going by the word breakdown as you said. It is religion and church thing that made up this whole definition that FORNICATION means pre-marital sex. Okay, let's agree to the word seduce. How do I seduce someone when she agrees and you still call that seduction? This is NOT ra.pe where I put knife in her neck o. It's both agreement although one person must make the move first and the other consent. That's not lead astray!

On a second thought, let's say it's lead astray - Then what is the punishment? DEATH? Off course NO! Even the dowry people pay in this case is NOWHERE unless with the condition - If the father refuses to give her daughter to the man. How then do you tell me to go pay dowry when in the first place I'm not suppose to do that. Not even when I make love with the woman BUT unless when the father refuses.

All said, when I say I want to marry a woman - it already means COMMITMENT, LOVE, VOWS AND ETERNAL DECISION TILL DEATH DO US APART. You people still think it is at the marriage alter where pastor bless a marriage that these 'eternal decision till death do us apart' is being made. NO! It's ALREADY made between the two adults BEFORE going to ANYONE ELSE. AGAIN, IN THE EYES OF GOD, THEY'RE IN MARRIAGE UNION. THE REST IS FORMALITY AND CEREMONY. There's no where it is forbidden for them not to make love to themselves - That's not fornication.

So in other words, pre-marital sex is not a sin in the sight of God?

Ishilove:
So in other words, pre-marital sex is not a sin in the sight of God?

In the light of these words below,

Goshen360: The reason why we are in these mess in Christianity is because many of us do not think there was bible before the KJV. God has been talking to his people right from Genesis and it wasn't in KJV. You want to tell me God spoken in KJV when he spoke to people in Genesis? KJV is ONLY a name of a TRANSLATION or translated VERSION. God didn't speak in ENGLISH either. Many of us are arguing blindly because religion said it and we accepted it in the first place. It's time to put everything religion taught you into scrutiny and be like the Bereans - Go and search out the truth. I challenge you!

Get to the original Hebrew or Greek text from which KJV or English was translated from and get the original meaning of the word FORNICATION. Nowhere is FORNICATION = PRE-MARITAL SEX - That's all I'm saying. To answer your question, No, it is not! You're not 'making love' to any man - you're making love to your husband (in the eyes of God) because you already make vows and commitment and in love to live together with each other forever until death do you apart. When someone start jumping from one man to another saying I want to marry you and one of them has deception in his/her heart, and making sex with different girls or boys, that is illicit sex, that's abuse, that's immorality and that's not what I'm talking about. Don't quote me out of context madam.

Goshen360:

No, it is not! You're not 'making love' to any man - you're making love to your husband (in the eyes of God) because you already make vows and commitment and in love to live together with each other forever until death do you apart. When someone start jumping from one man to another saying I want to marry you and one of them has deception in his/her heart, and making sex with different girls or boys, that is illicit sex, that's abuse, that's immorality and that's not what I'm talking about.

Brother mine, I shudder to imagine how many people have been led astray by this kind of thinking.

Ishilove:

So in other words, pre-marital sex is not a sin in the sight of God?

It is sinful having s.ex, if the parties involved are not in the relationship for the long haul.

and would be sin in the sight of God

Having that right sex, at the right time and been or remaining at right standing with God is important. Very important.

Immature, irresponsible, naive, unprepared, not-yet off-age etc without the commitment, loyalty, trust, love, faithfulness etc etc

can't embark on having se.x, for self-gratification, willy nilly or just on whims

Goshen360:

No, it is not! You're not 'making love' to any man - you're making love to your husband (in the eyes of God) because you already make vows and commitment and in love to live together with each other forever until death do you apart. When someone start jumping from one man to another saying I want to marry you and one of them has deception in his/her heart, and making sex with different girls or boys, that is illicit sex, that's abuse, that's immorality and that's not what I'm talking about.

Ishilove:

Brother mine, I shudder to imagine how many people have been led astray by this kind of thinking.

God has not given us a spirit of fearfulness, but one of power, love, and sound judgment

Whosoever that was led astray is either a fraud, a sheeple, or simply with the benefit of doubt; naive.

Those that worship the LORD in spirit and in truth, in conjunction with the black and red, read the white spaces

moredendisc:



God has not given us a spirit of fearfulness, but one of power, love, and sound judgment

Whosoever that was led astray is either a fraud, a sheeple, or simply with the benefit of doubt; naive.

Those that worship the LORD in spirit and in truth, in conjunction with the black and red, read the white spaces

O cut it out! So because I agree to marry you or brother Goshen, that automatically gives us the leeway to strafe each other's brains out??

Be carful, you and Goshen are misleading confused souls with this kind of warped thinking

A simple question with a simple answer. What is sin is premarital sex/fornication, if he is not your husband or she is not your wife and you go ahead and do it that is a sin. Only the devil can say the opposite of what I just said

Ishilove:

O cut it out!

So because I agree to marry you or brother Goshen, that automatically gives us the leeway to strafe each other's brains out??

Be carful, you and Goshen are misleading confused souls with this kind of warped thinking

@Ishilove

I must admit that this is not for the faint hearted

However going back to your post, if the agreement is mutual and is not based on flesh,

if the union is for the long haul until death do you apart then you have the license to jiggy jiggy till kingdom come.

The 3 pre-requisitse are:

1)It is the right sex to have
2)It is the right time or moment to have the s.ex
3)In tow with #1 & #2 the right standing with God is maintained when #1 & #2 is happening

Call them the 3 Rs - the 3 Rights or Righteousness

Consider been shipwrecked on an uninhabited and deserted island. The island is not close to any shipping route. Just have to resign to living on the island for an unforseeable time. What you going to do! Conjure guests out of the air for a wedding and reception? Hmm?

When i first saw this topic,i never believed it could go beyond a page because to me, it was a no brainer.

No matter how good or awesome Strong's dictionary or concordance is,it can never replace the bible.It can never replace the still small voice of the holy spirit working inside a believer.i saw we got into trying to define fornication and adultery.i'm surprised we didn't include lasciviousness in the search,maybe we could have become more enlightened.

okeyxyz affirmed in one post that Paul and the other apostles who were single were having regular sex with their lovers who of course are 'christian' sisters(abi which name will you give them since you said they were not harlots?)where for Christ sake was this implied in the bible? .Goshen implied this is wrong but if Apostle Paul had proposed marriage to sister Judith and she accepted,he would have just needed to book a room close to wherever he was having crusade or bible study and have his fill of love making before he goes to rain down apostolic grace on God's children since he has fulfilled the condition of 'intending to marry her'

Gal 5:22-23 talks about the fruits of the spirit.the last one mentioned was TEMPERANCE which is simply self control.why do we castigate men of God who buy jets? last time i checked i didn't see a verse that reads '....thou shall not buy jets...' in my bible.It's simply because we believe they are not bridling their appetite for CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION in line with the spirit of contentment which runs through the bible.In other words, they lack temperance or self control.

Paul wrote in 1Cor8:9 that 'But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak'.The grace of God gives us liberty but not Licence.Gal 5:13 says ''For brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,but by love serve one another''.

Let us even assume it's not a sin,is it not better you just go ahead and marry so as not to be a stumbling block to your weak brother? would you still let your faith be evil spoken of? i'm sure you dont smoke and you wont tell me it's because you saw it prohibited in the bible.if i may ask then, why dont you smoke?

Please let us learn to possess our vessels in honour,If you can't contain which is actually difficult if you dont have that grace on you,please and please go and marry

Sex or love making isn't a handshake between friends, dont trivialize it

@Jesoul, fine write up by Nwankwo u posted there

may God help us

okeyxyz:

Mehn.., Reading the above, all I can do is smh!!!

So the reason you favour the "out of wedlock" option is because it's becoming a trend of celebrities, abi?? This is typical drone mentality. You follow the crowd and are mind-controlled. Why not try thinking for yourself? you'd be surprised how much good it can do for your personality and self-esteem. If all the people you mentioned above are now killing their mothers would you join them too?? And you have the effrontery to point the accusing fingers at christians? Seriously, this is amongst the worst kind of argument a "smart" person can make.

As for me, I choose the out-of-wedluck relationship because that's what makes the most sense to me, both spiritually and secularly. My christian opinions are very unconventional, very un-mainstream, but that's the truth for me, that's the way it's gonna be until a better truth(if at all. I doubt) comes along.

Free your mind bro..

I didn't favour the out of wedlock relationship. I just pointed out an observation and how it's becoming a growing trend.

The lives of these people do not influence mine. I just used them because they are public figures and have a lot of followers/fans whom they influence.

Am not accusing Christians of anything. I only asked a question.

moredendisc:

Consider been shipwrecked on an uninhabited and deserted island. The island is not close to any shipping route. Just have to resign to living on the island for an unforseeable time. What you going to do! Conjure guests out of the air for a wedding and reception? Hmm?

Awww mehn, niqqa you eeeeevil!!! Lmao!!
That's some gangster ish right there

Candour: When i first saw this topic,i never believed it could go beyond a page because to me, it was a no brainer.

No matter how good or awesome Strong's dictionary or concordance is,it can never replace the bible.It can never replace the still small voice of the holy spirit working inside a believer.i saw we got into trying to define fornication and adultery.i'm surprised we didn't include lasciviousness in the search,maybe we could have become more enlightened.

okeyxyz affirmed in one post that Paul and the other apostles who were single were having regular sex with their lovers who of course are 'christian' sisters(abi which name will you give them since you said they were not harlots?)where for Christ sake was this implied in the bible? .Goshen implied this is wrong but if Apostle Paul had proposed marriage to sister Judith and she accepted,he would have just needed to book a room close to wherever he was having crusade or bible study and have his fill of love making before he goes to rain down apostolic grace on God's children since he has fulfilled the condition of 'intending to marry her'

Gal 5:22-23 talks about the fruits of the spirit.the last one mentioned was TEMPERANCE which is simply self control.why do we castigate men of God who buy jets? last time i checked i didn't see a verse that reads '....thou shall not buy jets...' in my bible.It's simply because we believe they are not bridling their appetite for CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION in line with the spirit of contentment which runs through the bible.In other words, they lack temperance or self control.

Paul wrote in 1Cor8:9 that 'But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak'.The grace of God gives us liberty but not Licence.Gal 5:13 says ''For brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,but by love serve one another''.

Let us even assume it's not a sin,is it not better you just go ahead and marry so as not to be a stumbling block to your weak brother? would you still let your faith be evil spoken of? i'm sure you dont smoke and you wont tell me it's because you saw it prohibited in the bible.if i may ask then, why dont you smoke?

Please let us learn to possess our vessels in honour,If you can't contain which is actually difficult if you dont have that grace on you,please and please go and marry

Sex or love making isn't a handshake between friends, dont trivialize it


may God help us

God bless you for this. You have said it all.

Goshen360:

My dear sister,

You're helping to make my point very clear. Now, going by the word breakdown as you said. It is religion and church thing that made up this whole definition that FORNICATION means pre-marital sex. Okay, let's agree to the word seduce. How do I seduce someone when she agrees and you still call that seduction? This is NOT ra.pe where I put knife in her neck o. It's both agreement although one person must make the move first and the other consent. That's not lead astray!

On a second thought, let's say it's lead astray - Then what is the punishment? DEATH? Off course NO! Even the dowry people pay in this case is NOWHERE unless with the condition - If the father refuses to give her daughter to the man. How then do you tell me to go pay dowry when in the first place I'm not suppose to do that. Not even when I make love with the woman BUT unless when the father refuses.

All said, when I say I want to marry a woman - it already means COMMITMENT, LOVE, VOWS AND ETERNAL DECISION TILL DEATH DO US APART. You people still think it is at the marriage alter where pastor bless a marriage that these 'eternal decision till death do us apart' is being made. NO! It's ALREADY made between the two adults BEFORE going to ANYONE ELSE. AGAIN, IN THE EYES OF GOD, THEY'RE IN MARRIAGE UNION. THE REST IS FORMALITY AND CEREMONY. There's no where it is forbidden for them not to make love to themselves - That's not fornication.

To be sincere Sir, I careless about your take on this because something tells me deep down that you know the truth and you wouldn't do otherwise. I worry more about the people you are misinforming. I am not going to continue on this thug of war with you because it amounts to nothing. But I also wouldn't sit and have you misinform people that premarital sex is not sin.

Firstly go take a look at the Hebrew meaning of the word entice- to make a fool out of someone even when the person agrees doesnt seem like the right thing to do. Secondly I repeat intention to marry is not the same as marriage. Even the world and law knows that hence the requirements of witnesses and signing of papers. At this junction it's really not about the ceremony it's more about the covenant .

Any guy who decides to sleep with a girl because he intends to marry her aka enticed her aka made a fool of her has just played her !!!

I found myself thinking in bed last night about you - how a man so versed in the word of God can come out here boldly and say the things you have said and to be sincere it gave me the shivers. My advice to you when you read the Word is to ask for the help of the Holy Spirit to understand and see things the way you ought to see them.

God has given us several gifts and our gifts should be used in the edification of others. My dear brother you know the Word but quietly think about the end result of the liberty you have just given to people- liberty to sex up their partners if they intend to marry .... Seriously? Bearing in mind that all in a courtship relationship are intending to marry o

People don't be fooled premarital sex is SIN.

Ignatio:

I didn't favour the out of wedlock relationship. I just pointed out an observation and how it's becoming a growing trend.

The lives of these people do not influence mine. I just used them because they are public figures and have a lot of followers/fans whom they influence.

Am not accusing Christians of anything. I only asked a question.

@OP, this should not be strange to you, the world will grow more evil as the end nears. Our prayers should be to stand in the calling that Christ has called us.
Unfortunately, even Christians have started giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, and things that should not even been heard are done by them.
It is really sad but it has been prophesied.
But it is not license for you to sin too.

@Goshen let me address you, as you are the main protagonist here. You do have a point of sorts, and one I can see if properly defined and contextualised.

The “but” here, is that you have gone about it in a way that can at best, be described as somewhat careless and have not really articulated the point clearly.

Firstly, the bible has as one of its many recurring themes, the fact that “He is no respecter of persons”. Does it mean that illiterate, vernacular-only speaking mama in the village cannot know God like concordance using, lexicon referencing, mult-ilinear translation reading brother in the city? No sir, he can possibly know the scriptures more, master the languages of antiquity better, but the desire for God and the Spirit of God are the real difference.

Secondly, all things are lawful, but are all expedient? Will you make your brother stumble by your knowledge or your desire to prove your sterling Berean ethic? You should have been as concerned about this, as about proving your essentially moot point.

Thirdly, you did not originally caveat or correctly outline the position which is a very narrow one. So it actually appears that you have changed position over the course of the discussion?

I am personally convinced that if God is truly in a (marriage) union and both parties consent to that and to one another, they are effectively married. However you define fornication or adultery - in English, Hebrew or Greek. And whatever further consents you seek or formalities you undergo. It is done and it is blessed.

What if – as has been noted – there are no parents, family or others? What if they are the last (or first) couple, castaway (or created) on a desert Island (garden)?

But if there are and they are not, what prevents them fulfilling all righteousness? What stops you acting maturely so that the one who has not the same understanding on this point does not stumble? It is not sin to you if you know, understand, are convinced and led. It could be to others who do not and are not.

In truth, all you’ve really done – and rightly so in my view - is question the view of were pre-marital ends and marital begins. In any event sex before – whether you term it fornication or not – is sin. And even sex after (dependant on where you consider it begins), while lawful, may not necessarily be expedient.

May we all attain to the fullness, the measure, the stature….

God bless
TV

TV01:

@Goshen let me address you, as you are the main protagonist here. You do have a point of sorts, and one I can see if properly defined and contextualised.

The “but” here, is that you have gone about it in a way that can at best, be described as somewhat careless and have not really articulated the point clearly.

Firstly, the bible has as one of its many recurring themes, the fact that “He is no respecter of persons”. Does it mean that illiterate, vernacular-only speaking mama in the village cannot know God like concordance using, lexicon referencing, mult-ilinear translation reading brother in the city? No sir, he can possibly know the scriptures more, master the languages of antiquity better, but the desire for God and the Spirit of God are the real difference.

Secondly, all things are lawful, but are all expedient? Will you make your brother stumble by your knowledge or your desire to prove your sterling Berean ethic? You should have been as concerned about this, as about proving your essentially moot point.

Thirdly, you did not originally caveat or correctly outline the position which is a very narrow one.

So it actually appears that you have changed position over the course of the discussion?

I am personally convinced that if God is truly in a (marriage) union and both parties consent to that and to one another, they are effectively married.

However you define fornication or adultery - in English, Hebrew or Greek. And whatever further consents you seek or formalities you undergo. It is done and it is blessed.

What if – as has been noted – there are no parents, family or others? What if they are the last (or first) couple, castaway (or created) on a desert Island (garden)?

But if there are and they are not, what prevents them fulfilling all righteousness?

What stops you acting maturely so that the one who has not the same understanding on this point does not stumble?

It is not sin to you if you know, understand, are convinced and led. It could be to others who do not and are not.

In truth, all you’ve really done – and rightly so in my view - is question the view of were pre-marital ends and marital begins.

In any event sex before – whether you term it fornication or not – is sin.

And even sex after (dependant on where you consider it begins), while lawful, may not necessarily be expedient.

May we all attain to the fullness, the measure, the stature….

God bless
TV

Succinctly dropped

- Nice to see you, to see you nice around here again

# Goshen360 is a honorable man, with no malice, ulterior motive or scheming agenda

# In fairness, G's stand is, you must be married or be in a union with the other sex, for the long haul until death do youse apart, for you to have each other

# The ocean was cold and deep. The currents were overwhelming . . .

# G, I would advise you to put out disclaimer(s) next time you respond to controversial issue or situation that others might find scary, awkward or unpleasant to deal with

Following the Spirit of my two brothers - moredendisc and TV01, I love these two brothers including sister WAM. I'm subject to the Spirit of Christ in my brothers and the Spirit of correction.

Disclaimer: If you're not convinced by my teachings, kindly discard and search the scriptures for yourself to disprove or accept what is taught. I have said what I said in pure heart and do not intend to make my brethren fall by my knowledge.

Our God sees my heart and judges everyone not because you're doing something because somebody said it. God will further ask you, don't you have the Bible for yourself to find out like the Bereans if what is said by Goshen360 is true or false. I have only challenged and said what I said as per my new stance in accordance with my knowledge. I'm not responsible for how you or anyone live their faith in the body of Christ. I hereby lay my arguments to rest as far as this subject is concern. Let every man be persuaded by the word of God and the Spirit of God

God bless you all.

Snowwy:
Sex is only approved in marriage NOT in CONSENT to marry. And the sex is to be with your wife NOT BETHROTHED, FIANCEE or GIRLFRIEND.
.

Sex by consent wasn't a sin under the law but. It doesn't equate marriage.marriage is not just an agreement between 2 people . A woman has to be given in marriage . She doesn't give herself to a man , she has to be given.

There is also a difference between who you are sleeping with and who you are married to.
Marriage institution is not cohabiting . Jesus showed us the difference.

John 4:16-18
Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

@Joagbaje,
I really will not go into this again because as clear as night and day the bible has said to AVOID fornication, MARRY. To AVOID adultery, stay married and sleep only with your spouse for MARRIAGE (not bethrothal, not espousal, not engagement, not commitment to marry) is HONOURABLE in all and the marital bed UNDEFILED, but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Anyone that cannot take such simple straightforward scriptural instructions has gone against God's word. That's all.

Joagbaje:

Sex by consent wasn't a sin under the law but. It doesn't equate marriage.marriage is not just an agreement between 2 people .

A woman has to be given in marriage . She doesn't give herself to a man , she has to be given.

There is also a difference between who you are sleeping with and who you are married to.

Marriage institution is not cohabiting . Jesus showed us the difference.

John 4:16-18
Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

@Joagbaje

It is true women are given in marriages but not all women have been given in marriages

and it is not necessarily so that all women are to be given in marriages

Also please DO NOT twist John 4:16-18 with "Marriage institution is not cohabiting . Jesus showed us the difference"

Jesus actually was stating and pointing out the facts here, as in

1)Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband - The woman is married. She vacated the marriage/union without a divorce or consent of the husband as was the custom of the law of Moses that husbands give certificate of divorce
2)The woman answered and said, I have no husband - She still has a living husband, is/was not divorced, is not a widow, so her saying "I have no husband" was incorrect
She and the other man cannot go into a contractual binding or give mutual consent to each others bodies which will be acceptable or approved. It is illicit sex and she is committing adultery with the man when having se.x
3)For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. - The woman has had five husbands in the past. Unlike nowadays, where women get divorces, it is the men who issue divorce certificates then, so the woman, though she had left home, she cant claim she has no husbands because as it happened she wasn't given a divorce certificate by husband and did not wait to be issued with one before packing her bags and leave

Marriage is an institution is true

yet genuine and sincere cohabitation, if for life, until death do you part, is acceptable too

The formality(ies) is the difference(s) between Marriage and Cohabitation

The cohabitation the woman had with that man in John 4:16-18 cannot stand on it's feet because the woman is not divorced or widowed, she is still married to another man

# TV01 AND G have spoken, this is for the John 4:24 folks, and so to others, it is not an excuse or license for se.xual harassments or se.xual malpractices

# Exercising the authority and office of the royal priesthood, the Lord sees acceptable and good cohabitation, the same way, the civil law sees marriage

# Acceptable, approved and good cohabitation is no frills marriage actually

moredendisc:

@Joagbaje

It is true women are given in marriages but not all women have been given in marriages

and it is not necessarily so that all women are to be given in marriages

Also please DO NOT twist John 4:16-18 with "Marriage institution is not cohabiting . Jesus showed us the difference"

Jesus actually was stating and pointing out the facts here, as in

1)Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband - The woman is married. She vacated the marriage/union without a divorce or consent of the husband as was the custom of the law of Moses that husbands give certificate of divorce
2)The woman answered and said, I have no husband - She still has a living husband, is/was not divorced, is not a widow, so her saying "I have no husband" was incorrect
She and the other man cannot go into a contractual binding or give mutual consent to each others bodies which will be acceptable or approved. It is illicit sex and she is committing adultery with the man when having se.x
3)For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. - The woman has had five husbands in the past. Unlike nowadays, where women get divorces, it is the men who issue divorce certificates then, so the woman, though she had left home, she cant claim she has no husbands because as it happened she wasn't given a divorce certificate by husband and did not wait to be issued with one before packing her bags and leave

Marriage is an institution is true

yet genuine and sincere cohabitation, if for life, until death do you part, is acceptable too

The formality(ies) is the difference(s) between Marriage and Cohabitation

The cohabitation the woman had with that man in John 4:16-18 cannot stand on it's feet because the woman is not divorced or widowed, she is still married to another man

# TV01 AND G have spoken, this is for the John 4:24 folks, and so to others, it is not an excuse or license for se.xual harassments or se.xual malpractices

# Exercising the authority and office of the royal priesthood, the Lord sees acceptable and good cohabitation, the same way, the civil law sees marriage

# Acceptable, approved and good cohabitation is no frills marriage actually

Just stop this. You are leading gullible people to sin, and as it is written, you might as well hang a rock around your neck and cast yourself into Barbeach for this evil you are spouting. The word is very clear on pre-marital sex. When you aren't married, you have no business having sex. Quit twisting the word of God to justify your carnality.

Ishilove:

Just stop this.
You are leading gullible people to sin, and as it is written, you might as well hang a rock around your neck and cast yourself into Barbeach for this evil you are spouting.
The word is very clear on pre-marital sex.
When you aren't married, you have no business having sex.
Quit twisting the word of God to justify your carnality.

@Ishilove

Yes ma'am - your wish shall be my command after dropping this post

# Cohabitation does not have the same meaning for pre-marital sex as you are championing

# Whilst pre-marital sex is the sin, please condemn that and not cohabitation.

# Please put up or shut up, if you have no scripture to support your claim, that, it is sin for people in a "until death do us part" relationship to live together unless civil law or customarily married - no offense meant

# Cohabitation, rightly so, may be discouraged as ill-advised for quite a few numbers of easily impressed or influenced Christians.

but hey, please, don’t impose or add unfounded and non existing laws to the Bible that it is sin for people in a relationship to live together unless married

@Candour, Godbless you brother!

@TV wassup!

@moredendisc, how body now?

Goshen360: Following the Spirit of my two brothers - moredendisc and TV01, I love these two brothers including sister WAM. I'm subject to the Spirit of Christ in my brothers and the Spirit of correction.

Disclaimer: If you're not convinced by my teachings, kindly discard and search the scriptures for yourself to disprove or accept what is taught. I have said what I said in pure heart and do not intend to make my brethren fall by my knowledge.

Our God sees my heart and judges everyone not because you're doing something because somebody said it. God will further ask you, don't you have the Bible for yourself to find out like the Bereans if what is said by Goshen360 is true or false. I have only challenged and said what I said as per my new stance in accordance with my knowledge. I'm not responsible for how you or anyone live their faith in the body of Christ. Ihereby lay my arguments to rest as far as this subject is concern. Let every man be persuaded by the word of God and the Spirit of God

God bless you all.

It is well brother Goshen.

The portion of your quote in bold - au contraire my brother, by virtue of your obvious popularity & cred on NL among Christians, you absolutely are 'responsible' in a sense.

James 3
1Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2Indeed, we all make many mistakes. For if we could control our tongues, we would be perfect and could also control ourselves in every other way.
You are obviously a 'teacher' on NL to Christians whether you like it or not . And your words will carry more weight than say brother Ukochi (whom many probably don't know) whose been posting his links for years but hardly gets more than 1 or 2 comments. All in all, God will convince each of us of His perfect will - this may have been a case to prayerfully apply Romans 14:22.

You may believe there’s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God.

Godbless ehn.

---

@all, let us not get caught up in emotion my brothers & sisters. I'm sure we all want to please God in our lives. Even as we disagree, let us do so with a loving spirit - one that does not have the need to win the argument more than it seeks to love its brother.

Furthermore, I think we are laying down rabbit traps and stumbling stones by playing with hypothetics. Most of us live in countries/cultures where certain behavior is considered appropriate or inappropriate - aligning your spiritual beliefs with what is culturally appropriate is the godly thing to do. As such, questions like whether you'll need to invite wedding guests to a secluded island should not even come up because it will be obviously inappropriate for that circumstance. On the other side, shacking up with your intended spouse in a society like say naija will obviously cause eyelids to bat because it in inappropriate - whether or not you both personally believe you are already married in the sight of God - after all, the same bible tells us to avoid the very appearance of wrong or sin and na the same bible talk say we do not live unto ourselves - we represent Christ, and should not use our liberty carelessly - if not for anything but for the sake of unity & peace.

May God help us all. Amen!

moredendisc:

@Joagbaje

Also please DO NOT twist John 4:16-18 with "Marriage institution is not cohabiting . Jesus showed us the difference"

Jesus actually was stating and pointing out the facts here, as in

1)Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband - The woman is married. She vacated the marriage/union without a divorce or consent of the husband

No you're the one giving different interpretation here. The woman was married and divorced 5 times. And now she was only cohabiting without legal marriage.

(2), so her saying "I have no husband" was incorrect

You're now saying Jesus was lying.

John 4:17
The woman answered, I have no husband. Jesus said to her, You have spoken truly in saying, I have no husband.

I made a very big mistake o. The very first day this topic was created, I never bothered clicking. Only God knows what pushed me yesterday evening to click, chei!!!
Anyways, my dear bro Okey, if your affirmation were correct; 1. Why would the Almighty Himself have to look for a 'virgin' to carry the pregnancy of our Lord Jesus Christ?
2. Why would Paul say an aspiring bishop must be a husband of one wife? Won't it mean double standard if he (Paul) were on banging spree, while he went on charging others to be husband of one wife?
3. Why would there be for the wedding at Cana?

Anyway, no matter how truthful your supposed truth is, let Jesus even come today and make public announcement that fornication/pre-marital conjugation is not a sin again o; I, RedReact, will still be celibate till I marry. I have passions in my body cos I am a human being and passion is in my body and will continue to be in Jesus Name

Bro striktlymi, snowwy, christembassey, Anony, Joagbaje (though I disagree with your teachings sometimes), sis. ishilove and Bella and all others, well done jare and God bless you.
Goshen360, na small well done you deserve and God bless you too

Knowledge puffs up. Anybody that he thinks he knows, let him know that he has not yet known as he ought to. Anyone that causes the little ones to stumble, it will be better for him to have a great milestone fastened around his neck and be sunk in the depth of the sea. How can u issue a disclaimer when u know people will be easily swayed. Call it whatever u deem fit, turn the bible upside down, anyone who is not married commits fornication. Mary was chaste even in bethrotal, she was a virgin. If it were not a sin, who wouldn't have loved to have sex then but she denied herself. Your parents consenting to ur marriage does not mean u are already married. It amazes me how people twist the scriptures to just make them yield to their lustful apetite. I never imagined that something like this can be debated among christians.

rhemaplus: I never imagined that something like this can be debated among christians.

This is an eyeopener, it has revealed the false teachers here trying to justify premarital sex.

SHALOM

ONLY BREAKING A COMMANDMENT OF GOD IS A SIN.

Ignatio:
This thought came to mind when I was about to get in the act. Silly it may seem but I've to let it out. Why is it seen as a sin or is it because the bible said so? If animals can have intercourse with one another without any form of marital obligation binding them why can't we humans? I believe sexual urge is part of the human nature so why can't we express it without fear that we're doing something wrong. Must we be married to have sex.

An intelligent person wants to be better than the Animals- otherwise, what is the POINT of being HUMAN?

NB- Sexual abuse or abuse of sex is wrong.

When you make up Sins that do not exist, how do you gauge "abuse?"