sex is not a sin, it is premarital sex/fornication that is a sin.

@op why are you using animals to make your point? Do you want to live the life of animals?

Sex is right only between a husband and his wife.

Goshen360:

NO, I disagree - It's not the pastor that 'consent' to marriage. It is whoever find a wife finds a good thing and parents giving their 'consent'. Where does scripture say PASTOR MUST bless me and my partner before I marry? Show me scripture and I promise to quit this argument (reasoning).

I will grant you this that there was no mention of "pastor/preist's consent in the bible.

@All,

I said it before and I say again: Marriage is permissible but not perfect. It is only allowed for those who cannot handle the passion to "own" a s.ex partner. Marriage is not sin but it not the ideal s.exual relationship. It is a perishable institution of man. What did jesus mean by:

34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection(luke 20:34-36 ).

Goshen360:

NO, I disagree - It's not the pastor that 'consent' to marriage. It is whoever find a wife finds a good thing and parents giving their 'consent'. Where does scripture say PASTOR MUST bless me and my partner before I marry? Show me scripture and I promise to quit this argument (reasoning).

Bro Goshen,

Going to church does not imply that the pastor is the one who gives his consent. In every marital act, the consent of God is needed. Adam and Eve had this consent directly hence there was no need for any other blessing but in our time we go to church to have God bless the union not the pastor.

Remember that even what we go to do in church is not strictly the marriage but a confirmation of God's blessings in the community of God's people.

Goshen360:

You just made my point. I'm saying - IN THE EYES OF GOD, such people are already married. We only bring in the consent of parents today because what followed in the commandment of God was - therefore shall a man leave his FATHER AND MOTHER....that's where parental consent comes in.

What say ye?

But then I have not made any point for you and this is just a twisting of words. We both know that there is a huge world of difference between parents agreeing to the marriage and them actually giving their daughter away. Be honest and don't try to twist the two.

okeyxyz:

So you want to tell me that a man\woman who never gets married must never have s.ex? This cannot possible be an instruction from god. This is how s.exual deviations like homos.exuality, inces.t and bestiality starts. When you deny the true, natural expression of s.ex, then it finds other ways to express itself. And this true, natural expression is not in marriage. Yes, marriage is granted because man wants it, but it is only permissible, not perfect. Paul said that he wished all men where like him, unmarried, are you saying that he wished all men never had s.ex?? IMPOSSIBLE!!. Accept this if you can: Paul and the apostles where single and having s.ex.

are you a christian or an atheist pls?

okeyxyz: @All,

I said it before and I say again: Marriage is permissible but not perfect. It is only allowed for those who cannot handle the passion to "own" a s.ex partner. Marriage is not sin but it not the ideal s.exual relationship. It is a perishable institution of man. What did jesus mean by:

34 Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection(luke 20:34-36 ).

As usual you have taken that verse out of context. The verse simply saying that there is no marriage recognized after resurrection. Stop lying

Goshen360:

Exactly what I'm saying - THERE WASN'T ANY 'FORMAL' CEREMONY in Eden between Adam and Eve because when God brought Eve to Adam, and Adam accepted, IN THE EYES OF GOD, they're already married - They're husband and wife. There wasn't ANY 'former' ceremony. Formal ceremony is for modern day way, that's not the way God sees it. In such case, Adam 'making love' with his wife IS NOT fornication.

What say ye?

Okay let me ask you,

Can this couple that are being intimate cancel the marriage if they wish?

okeyxyz:

So you want to tell me that a man\woman who never gets married must never have s.ex? This cannot possible be an instruction from god. This is how s.exual deviations like homos.exuality, inces.t and bestiality starts. When you deny the true, natural expression of s.ex, then it finds other ways to express itself. And this true, natural expression is not in marriage. Yes, marriage is granted because man wants it, but it is only permissible, not perfect. Paul said that he wished all men where like him, unmarried, are you saying that he wished all men never had s.ex?? IMPOSSIBLE!!. Accept this if you can: Paul and the apostles where single and having s.ex.

Biblical proof please

Mr_Anony:
I will grant you this that there was no mention of "pastor/preist's consent in the bible.

Okay, fine. what then is the original 'consent' for marriage then?

Mr_Anony:
Interesting....I also like NASB too.

1Thessalonians 4:3-5 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions...... factions,

LUST is not used as s.ex between unmarried man and woman. It'd help if you researched your bible dictionaries before assuming the meanings you'd always used are still valid.

Goshen360:

Okay, fine. what then is the original 'consent' for marriage then?

Christ went to a wedding feast! It can be assumed that the couples got consent from their parents before the marriage proper. Are we now saying that Jesus went to witness a marriage which is not needed?

striktlymi:

Bro Goshen,

Going to church does not imply that the pastor is the one who gives his consent. In every marital act, the consent of God is needed. Adam and Eve had this consent directly hence there was no need for any other blessing but in our time we go to church to have God bless the union not the pastor.

Remember that even what we go to do in church is not strictly the marriage but a confirmation of God's blessings in the community of God's people.

NO, there's nowhere in scripture that say if God has already given consent or approve the consent of the intending couple, they 'should' still go to church or pastor for marriage. It's strictly the two consenting adults and their parents. Will you mind showing us from scriptures where pastors are to bless what God had already confirmed? What I'm saying is, when 'love making', not illicit s.ex take place within such 'parental consent' and that of the consent of the adults, it is not fornication. In the eye of God and the eyes of their consenting parents, they are already married.

What say ye?

The teaching I am seeing here is that one can take a lady home as wife as soon as the parents says 'yes'

Goshen360:

Which people are those that goes to church or court in the bible in order to marry? Show me one and let me quit this thread. And I will openly apologize for whatever I have said. You people don't wanna even listen to the point I'm talking.

Nobody went to church.......let's remove church out of this...its kinda irrelevant as far as marraige is concerned....na jara be that.....court comes into this discussion because ceaser demands it.....abi you no go give wetin belong to ceaser??.............

My own is pay bride price(which covers parental consent) and register your marraige according to the law........these are requisites bro...........you can't run away from them and claim God in heaven just approves of you sleeping with a girl because you casualy met with the girls parents and they agree to take you in as there son-in-law............

Bélla3: Okay let me ask you,

Can this couple that are being intimate cancel the marriage if they wish?

There's no wedding in 'formal' ceremony in what I'm saying. You like wedding too much. No worry, I will make sure I attend yours with plenty dollars

ijawkid:

Nobody went to church.......let's remove church out of this...its kinda irrelevant as far as marraige is concerned....na jara be that.....court comes into this discussion because ceaser demands it.....abi you no go give wetin belong to ceaser??.............

My own is pay bride price(which covers parental consent) and register your marraige according to the law........these are requisites bro...........you can't run away from them and claim God in heaven just approves of you sleeping with a girl because you casualy met with the girls parents and they agree to take you in as there son-in-law............

So far, you made the MOST reasonable sense so far. That dowry be paid and forget all other formal ceremony. But ceaser no demand anything o. Where ceaser demand am? Or you're saying give unto ceaser what belongs to ceaser? If that's what you're saying, then you're right for the register aspect.

But do you know that the requirement to pay dowry under the law is to 'make love' with your intending spouse?

Goshen360:

There's no wedding in 'formal' ceremony in what I'm saying. You like wedding too much. No worry, I will make sure I attend yours with plenty dollars

Which kin dodging question be this?
Abeg, answer o.

Goshen360:

NO, there's nowhere in scripture that say if God has already given consent or approve the consent of the intending couple, they 'should' still go to church or pastor for marriage. It's strictly the two consenting adults and their parents. Will you mind showing us from scriptures where pastors are to bless what God had already confirmed? What I'm saying is, when 'love making', not illicit s.ex take place within such 'parental consent' and that of the consent of the adults, it is not fornication. In the eye of God and the eyes of their consenting parents, they are already married.

What say ye?

I agree that the only consent we need is that given by God but the problem will be how do we determine this? I have seen cases where after the parents consent the man or lady fall for someone else.

Don't you think that it would be appropriate to have some formal ceremony just like the one Jesus attended. At least then this consent is made formal. Remember too that there was a case where Jesus asked someone he healed to still go to a priest to be certified okay.

Mr_Anony:
Biblical proof please

Biblical proof?
I can show you all the proofs you want but you still may not buy it. Bible understanding requires "wisdom" to decode it. Wisdom is the key to unlocking the secrets of scripture. Surely there was a reason Jesus spoke in parables rather than literal impressions. Don't you think he was deliberately hiding some things? Why were so many messages of the old testament treated as allegories? What I give you is wisdom and the interpretation of these matters.

Have you ever considered why Jesus was born without s.ex?

Goshen360:

There's no wedding in 'formal' ceremony in what I'm saying. You like wedding too much. No worry, I will make sure I attend yours with plenty dollars

I don't think there is any need to invite a lot of people for the church blessing I talk about. One can go with the spouse and may be parents as witnesses.

The elaborate thingy is really not needed!

christemmbassey: are you a christian or an atheist pls?

Why would I be "dividing scripture" if I was an atheist? I'm 100% christian.

striktlymi: The teaching I am seeing here is that one can take a lady home as wife as soon as the parents says 'yes'

E be like na wetin I dey hear so o......

Kai religious ppl don take over, it must be like this, it must be like that. The truth about the whole matter is - sex is meant for a MAN and his Wife,outside that it is fornication/adultery and sin, now how the man take get de wife na anoda matter enterly, whether he steal am o, elope with am o, they dash am o etc, marriage na marriage, afterall if they want dlvorse how they take marry nm matter, i have seen 2ppl who met during the naija civil war married no ceremony, very happy, born cool guys and they stay happily married. Okeyxyz you are fre to teach ur children that sex is like food they can agree and share. Peace to all men of goodwill.

Mr_Anony:
As usual you have taken that verse out of context. The verse simply saying that there is no marriage recognized after resurrection. Stop lying

No, you are the one missing the message here. It says:
35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

Which means a precondition(before) to attain the resurrection.

@All

Another angle to this 'parental consent' is that in Africa it also involves some formal ceremony. What are we saying about this?

striktlymi:

I agree that the only consent we need is that given by God but the problem will be how do we determine this? I have seen cases where after the parents consent the man or lady fall for someone else.

Don't you think that it would be appropriate to have some formal ceremony just like the one Jesus attended. At least then this consent is made formal. Remember too that there was a case where Jesus asked someone he healed to still go to a priest to be certified okay.

striktlymi:

I don't think there is any need to invite a lot of people for the church blessing I talk about. One can go with the spouse and may be parents as witnesses.

The elaborate thingy is really not needed!

Your two post are contradictory sir. That's what I'm saying - The parents are the witness and the gave consent for both. They two are married then meaning, they're already given in marriage. The formal things is just ceremony. It doesn't mean the people that were already consented by parents and given in marriage aren't married. If these people 'make love' it is NOT illicit s.ex. That's the point I'm making.

christemmbassey: Kai religious ppl don take over, it must be like this, it must be like that. The truth about the whole matter is - sex is meant for a MAN and his Wife,outside that it is fornication/adultery and sin, now how the man take get de wife na anoda matter enterly, whether he steal am o, elope with am o, they dash am o etc, marriage na marriage, afterall if they want dlvorse how they take marry nm matter, i have seen 2ppl who met during the naija civil war married no ceremony, very happy, born cool guys and they stay happily married. Okeyxyz you are fre to teach ur children that sex is like food they can agree and share. Peace to all men of goodwill.

You just brought up a very good point!

The question now is: if the marital union is not formal how do you call for annulment? We go to the parents to annul it?

Goshen360:

So far, you made the MOST reasonable sense so far. That dowry be paid and forget all other formal ceremony. But ceaser no demand anything o. Where ceaser demand am? Or you're saying give unto ceaser what belongs to ceaser? If that's what you're saying, then you're right for the register aspect.

But do you know that the requirement to pay dowry under the law is to 'make love' with your intending spouse?

At least you go pay that bride price first.....no be just for parents to say ""YES"" we gree for you to marry our daughter.....actions and following the laid down laws of the land must be adhered to......

And isn't the registering of ones marraige in the court like a requirement from ceaser??..............pay back ceasers things to ceaser bro.......

christemmbassey: Kai religious ppl don take over, it must be like this, it must be like that. The truth about the whole matter is - sex is meant for a MAN and his Wife,outside that it is fornication/adultery and sin, now how the man take get de wife na anoda matter enterly, whether he steal am o, elope with am o, they dash am o etc, marriage na marriage, afterall if they want dlvorse how they take marry nm matter, i have seen 2ppl who met during the naija civil war married no ceremony, very happy, born cool guys and they stay happily married.

Every body needs to READ this please. This is the point I'm making. When two people have the consent of BOTH parents, THEY ARE MARRIED IN THE EYES OF GOD. How the man gets his wife is irrelevant. In this case, the parents have given consent to both. They are free to make love. That's not illicit s.ex ANYMORE and it's not fornication. You people should not let the institutionalized church say you must do this or do that do be husband and wife.

striktlymi: @All

Another angle to this 'parental consent' is that in Africa it also involves some formal ceremony. What are we saying about this?

For Goshen, I guess his plans will be when he wants to go pump tire of his car, he will quickly dash to his 'fiancee-wife-consented by parents' parents house and say 'sorry I was passing by and decided to drop the bride price, take, ehn I will collect some change sha but if you don't have it now let me collect it another day, Infact na change I don dey find since'.

Goshen360:



Your two post are contradictory sir. That's what I'm saying - The parents are the witness and the gave consent for both. They two are married then meaning, they're already given in marriage. The formal things is just ceremony. It doesn't mean the people that were already consented by parents and given in marriage aren't married. If these people 'make love' it is NOT illicit s.ex. That's the point I'm making.

The posts are not contradictory! It is not about the number of people who attend. What a million people can do, just 4 people can do the same. Though the crowd is not needed, it is really not wrong for one to invite friends and relatives.

Jesus went there to witness as a guest but the actual ceremony is not dependent on the number of people.