Emperoh: Ola One,

It will be totally incorrect to assume that networking is about bribing and contacting with a Senator or sleeping with an Alhaji to get an NNPC of ministry job.

I am against nepotism as far as it concerns doing some corrupt actions to get hired for a job you most certainly are not qualified for.

Regardless of how you get a job, it is only how good you are that keeps you in it. No serious minded organisation will employ and keep anyone who isn't adding to the bottom line of the organisation through his/her area of expertise or whatever you are hired for.

The idea of getting a job through you network is never bad. You know someone, that's as far as it can get sometimes. You need to prove to the interview panel how your presence can add to the bottom-line and how your activities can help it grow. If you can't ace an interview, how has the network helped?

Some contacts go as far as ensuring you scale through all the hurdles but eventually, if you were prodded in, you will be lifted our in due course.

But i still maintain, a high percentage of Private sector jobs are on merit!!!

coogar:

that's the twist about this whole thing.....

there's no job i have done that i wouldn't have coped with as a secondary school graduate - what i am trying to say is it would take the dumbest of a dimwit not to cope with any job regardless of his grade in the university. they make you go through all those hoops and when that dream job lands on your lap, you are basically checking the pressure and the temperature of a pump every 1 hour and you are getting paid £500 per day for it. tell a junior secondary school student to do that and he would certainly do it without stress.

that line of argument is a bit lame to claim no organisation would hire a dullard. every graduate who can read and write would cope in most organisations. 90% of the tasks are common sense. a bit of in-house training is included too so it's impossible for any graduate of any discipline not to cope with the tasks required. under the cover of this, applicants of all kinds slip through the system.

mba emeka: I concur with Debosky, Jarus, Olaone , Coogar etc. I do not see light in X-fire. He to me, is almost sounding guilty and naïve. What's the fuss about MNC's helping family members get in? Do you expect me for example, to be in a reputable position, aware of the paucity of Jobs in the country and having a brother with say a 2'1 trying to get a job and I would turn a blind eye? Certainly not!

That is the nepotism at the fore. Please don't tell us that it doesn't exist because 'you know people who got it without any help'. For every one story you have to back your case I can give you atleast 3 to counter it. Its not being defeatist or pessissmistic-its the reality on ground. The cold, hard one. Sometime last year a somewhat similar topic was being discussed concerning the NNPC recruitment. Do you believe there were some Nigerians that swore tooth and nail that 'no form of nepotism' goes on during such recruitments. When I butted in to give an account of my cousin that didn't even apply or write the preliminary test they started calling me a liar, fraud etc. This is NNPC we are talking about oh?


That's why I don't get surprised when people defend MNC's saying 'nepostism' doesn't thrive there. Its at best comical. Shey SHELL has a policy that prohibits married couples from working for them? I know a family (man and wife with kids) that had to change their surnames so that they can still work there. How they were able to do it only God knows. But I got the information from another lady whose husband works with Total and wanted to help get a job there. When she refused he sited this other couple to make his case. I am not here to rat them out. This is Nigeria!

coogar:
what i am trying to say is it would take the dumbest of a dimwit not to cope with any job regardless of his grade in the university. they make you go through all those hoops and when that dream job lands on your lap, you are basically checking the pressure and the temperature of a pump every 1 hour and you are getting paid £500 per day for it. tell a junior secondary school student to do that and he would certainly do it without stress.

djon78: Big ups to rhino, jarus, mba, ajelenko, dayo kanu, coogar, etc for this educative tread I was really impressed to see u all discussing intelligently not all those tribal cursing out done before, more of this.

As for me had a bussiness degree from oversea, it was very tough for me, worked in a financial service company on the island, the experience was terrible, at the end got a lifeline from a relation to run his bussiness for him, it was very profitable and not up to a year has gotten turnover of over 30mil, now know my way around and bussiness links to even oil and gas, IT related field and other stuffs.
I am just starting with the drive and push I have this is just the begining, my ambition of building up a world class reputable African firm is in the making, were I will have access to pool of talents, brains that this continent has ever known all working together. I know it is not a bed of roses but I know that it is possible, am equiping myself, improving everyday, with the required resources needed. Jack welch fomer ceo of general said the secret of his success in taking GE from small to a global company was simply having the best brains around him while Richard Branson said the secret of his succeess was that he has be smart to surround himself with people smarter than him and given them the free hand to make their own deciscions.


I think the op should not just have the mindset of job seeker but rather to create his own job, degree foriegn or local cannot lift this nation to great heights rather knowledge that those degrees present. The problem we have in black africa as a whole is that there is no hunger for knowledge, even when we have the knowledge we lack the ability of applying, imputing and puting that knowledge into practice to yield result which is wisdom. That's were the caucascians, asians etc have the edge over us, they are not better than us, while studying abroad I used myself to know that they were not better than me, some of them in my class will consult me for clarification in topics I have better understanding.

My advice to both graduates both home and abroad, think outside the box, be creative, don't just fold your hands waiting for white collar jobs, create ur own, I know its not easy who said that life is easy, never so my dear, so no excuse.

Jarus:

Great post, only lowpoint being you were a little harsh on foreign-trained in the bolded.

Can we start discussion on the 'role of networking/informal recommendations/poaching' side by side in this thread? That's another interesting subject I enjoy discussing.

Bagehot:

I wish I was being too harsh - I really do. Just thinking of the grades and pay those Guys got for doing next to nothing makes my blood boil. When recession started biting, practically all of these guys were flushed out.

debosky:
So you think the companies just want to waste money so they'll pay someone £500 per day just to check P&T every hour?

Ridiculous over-exaggeration bordering on outright lies. This is how those who have actual experience are differentiated from those that are just repeating stories they've heard from others.

Jarus: Networking is very helpful in job search. It is acceptable practice the world over. That is why there are alumni network of top universities.

Some employers just don't want to go through the rigour of throwing open a vacancy and having thousands apply. They ask for recommendations. Some even poach - go all the way to another organization to poach someone.

Linkedin was helpful to me in securing my current job. When I was to go for interview, I did internet search about the company and got directed to linkedin page of some people that work in the company, connected with them, dug further and realized that one of them was a former staff of one of my then company's subsidiaries, got in touch with my friend in that our subsidiary and enquired about XYZ - who, being an HR person, I guessed was likely going among my interviewers, asked about her temperament, worldview, etc. All these aided my preparation/template for the interview - knowing something about your interviewer beforehand. That's a legitimate way of putting networking to use. (the illegitimate way was to go to her house - which can be dug out by further research - and go with sack of Naira - which wont work anyway).

debosky:

If all/most of the foreign grads that got employed in your company did next to nothing/were incompetent, then the flaw isn't in the foreign education - it's your HR/recruitment/management system that is incompetent. Either that or your company is/was a magnet for dullards with foreign qualifications.

AjanleKoko:

Bolded is the point.

Jarus: Other scenarios of acceptable use of network

1, You meet ED of XYZ in a flight or a social club and got interacting. You discuss politics, football, management etc. He feels you are intelligent. You leave exchanging cards. You check him up with calls once in a quarter. You become friends. He needs someone to fill a position and poaches you from your company. I know someone one of these top Nigerian billionaires whose initial is O.O and has substantial interest in First Bank, begs to come and head his stockbroking firm without him applying. That is poaching.

2, You have a network of friends from school and you pass information around anytime there is

coogar:

that's the twist about this whole thing.....

there's no job i have done that i wouldn't have coped with as a secondary school graduate - what i am trying to say is it would take the dumbest of a dimwit not to cope with any job regardless of his grade in the university. they make you go through all those hoops and when that dream job lands on your lap, you are basically checking the pressure and the temperature of a pump every 1 hour and you are getting paid £500 per day for it. tell a junior secondary school student to do that and he would certainly do it without stress.

that line of argument is a bit lame to claim no organisation would hire a dullard. every graduate who can read and write would cope in most organisations. 90% of the tasks are common sense. a bit of in-house training is included too so it's impossible for any graduate of any discipline not to cope with the tasks required. under the cover of this, applicants of all kinds slip through the system.

coogar:

that's the twist about this whole thing.....

there's no job i have done that i wouldn't have coped with as a secondary school graduate - what i am trying to say is it would take the dumbest of a dimwit not to cope with any job regardless of his grade in the university. they make you go through all those hoops and when that dream job lands on your lap, you are basically checking the pressure and the temperature of a pump every 1 hour and you are getting paid £500 per day for it. tell a junior secondary school student to do that and he would certainly do it without stress.

that line of argument is a bit lame to claim no organisation would hire a dullard. every graduate who can read and write would cope in most organisations. 90% of the tasks are common sense. a bit of in-house training is included too so it's impossible for any graduate of any discipline not to cope with the tasks required. under the cover of this, applicants of all kinds slip through the system.

Jarus:

Good.

But it sometimes goes beyond that, especially as one progresses in career, from operational activities to tactical level.

For operational routines, yes, every Joe may be able to do that. But at a stage the job will go beyond that. Some decisions are tactical and unstructured, and you may not have a template for them. That is when the 'dullard' begins to fall apart. I'm not saying this also corresponds to school degree (a 2.2 may even edge out a First when it gets to this stage and even have a career progress, but a mechanical dullard will find it difficult when it gets to this level. This supports why a company will not want to hire a dullard in the first place - even at that operational level a seondary school pupil can do, because of long run.

coogar:

and you don't think these points give you an unfair advantage over your counterparts seeking the same job? if this isn't a leg up, then what is it? you meet people who tell you this is what you should expect, this is what XYZ loves hearing in oral interviews and blah blah blah and you don't think this is like seeing "expo" before an exam? how many job applicants do you think have access to this kind of information? i can assure you they are less than 1%.

Ola one:

Abi nau. Captain Wales got extended leave. He went to attend to his Sentabele charity. he also went to an exclusive Swiss Alps for his skiing needs. His colleagues are slugging it out in Afghanistan. Talk about being on a pedestal

Jarus:
It is researching, it is not expo.
Every applicant should have done smart reasearch.

AjanleKoko:

It's really a HR problem, and not really about the quality of the graduate.
In nine out of ten cases, the graduates are not really 'foreign' graduates - they are usually products of a Nigerian school at undergraduate level, who spent a year or two abroad doing a masters degree, and maybe a couple more years doing post-study work.

Would you refer to such as 'foreign' graduates?

coogar:

so tell me what you do now that you wouldn't have been able to do 15 yrs ago when you were still writing a secondary school student

Emperoh:
By implication, what you are saying is that you can as well employ an illiterate and teach him how to do some operational stuff and that's it!
More like the mechanic or plumber or electrician who didn't go beyond primary school or at most secondary school; he just learns from his "master", starts his own and he's in business of repairs. In 10 years time, he can't design a simple car cooling system or even work on advanced cars. When cars upgrade or electrical wiring is improved upon, he's stuck. . . . .more like the 4 cylinder, V6 mentality!

Just like Jarus said, operational jobs don't need high end academic intellect. Surely, it's the same pattern, same manual, same process hence, every tom dIck and harry can follow it. But when it comes to tactical direction and awareness, strategic guidance, process formulation, intellectual inquest or even setting up the operational process, everything falls apart from here. . . . . . at the initial point, you are just a consumer. At the advanced stage, you need to sum up your operational learning and understanding and combine it with deep thoughts to come up with a new direction when you are in a log jam. An operational person can't be a problem solver. . . .solve it and tell him how to do it. he can't be a process developer or initiator; initiate and tell him how to carry it out.

Hence, your argument however good falls flat on its face when issues of career advancement comes into play.

coogar:

and you don't think these points give you an unfair advantage over your counterparts seeking the same job? if this isn't a leg up, then what is it? you meet people who tell you this is what you should expect, this is what XYZ loves hearing in oral interviews and blah blah blah and you don't think this is like seeing "expo" before an exam? how many job applicants do you think have access to this kind of information? i can assure you they are less than 1%.

AjanleKoko:

I think Brits have that problem. Just like in football, they are always crying about 'cheating, bla bla'. But they never win anything
Americans on the other hand know that networking is key

debosky:
Abeg oh. . .15 years? I just finished secondary school in 2003 - it's barely 10 years ago.
As for the question, no I wouldn't. I'm not saying it applies in every case, but you were simply oversimplifying and exaggerating.

Jarus: Nothing wrong with networking, it is acceptable, and for me, still within the purview of merit.
What is wrong is bribing, sex-for-job, test question leakage, bypassing all recruitment process to hand job to unqualified crony etc

coogar:
an illiterate cannot read and write - all i said was anyone who can read and write plus some basic general knowledge would handle most of the things debosky is puffing his chest about. this may not necessarily work in nigeria where craftsmanship and artisan jobs don't involve theoretical side of things but it would definitely work in developed countries.

recently, some british farmers laid their own fibre optic cable system to hook on the internet when british telecoms refused to do it because of the cost! the farmers got together, bought large cables and laid it in their farmlands instead of digging the ground or laying underwater. these people are farmers for feck's sake but they knew the basics. debosky's company would have charged them £10bn to send engineers like debosky who think the world revolves around them because he had triple M.Sc and 5 Ph.Ds

understanding the basics will only take you as far as there are no complications and what laws of science are applicable in certain terrains or conditions. That's where a professional comes to hand. Believe it or not they are important and the British farmers wouldn't have done as much as core telecoms engineers would have done. Else, take a book on basic surgery and go and do a complex kidney transplant. Of course with basic reading and writing skills you can!

coogar:
tactical direction is guess work - it's logic based on a series of yes or no answers at every junction. with all the millions of years experience bankers have garnered, they still took the economy into a triple-dip recession so where's the so-called expertise. teach a secondary school student with an average intelligence quotient the basics, give him some in-house company training and he would cope just fine. i mean, he would cope very well, maybe better than debosky sef.

I wonder what guess work and logic are doing in the same sentence??
Another point, banker's experience didn't crash the market. By-passing the rules and playing finance James Bond did.
It was a pure act of corruption and fraud which had a global spiral effect. Enron, Bernard Madoof are cases in point. Lehmans Brothers is another of such case.

coogar:


it's networking in plain english but it's "paddy know paddy" in pidgin english. the moment you network, you have the unfair advantage unless you put the information you get from such relationships to public use and give every applicant am equal chance.

jarus - you are hereby found guilty of networking/legging up/backdooring and paddying.

debosky:

I don't even know sef - who defines what is classed as a 'foreign' graduate anyway?

Is it when your undergrad study is abroad or the amount of foreign work experience you have?

coogar:

you finished secondary school in 2003 at the age of 21? no wonder - you probably repeated each class from ss1 to ss3. lol!



it's networking in plain english but it's "paddy know paddy" in pidgin english. the moment you network, you have the unfair advantage unless you put the information you get from such relationships to public use and give every applicant am equal chance.

jarus - you are hereby found guilty of networking/legging up/backdooring and paddying.

Emperoh:
understanding the basics will only take you as far as there are no complications and what laws of science are applicable in certain terrains or conditions. That's where a professional comes to hand. Believe it or not they are important and the British farmers wouldn't have done as much as core telecoms engineers would have done. Else, take a book on basic surgery and go and do a complex kidney transplant. Of course with basic reading and writing skills you can!

I wonder what guess work and logic are doing in the same sentence??
Another point, banker's experience didn't crash the market. By-passing the rules and playing finance James Bond did. It was a pure act of corruption and fraud which had a global spiral effect. Enron, Bernard Madoof are cases in point. Lehmans Brothers is another of such case.

AjanleKoko:

For me the degree means little. Whether local or foreign.
For entry-level graduates, as long as you meet the minimum requirements for entry, and are able to pass the tests and interviews, you deserve the job.
For experienced people, it's a lot more straightforward - you either have the experience or you don't. The whole issue of 'foreign vs local' is an HR fad, and very little more.

In fact I think the significance of the foreign education is more for the student, not necessarily for the future employer.

It's much better to study in a more liberal, dynamic, and forward-looking environment, like, say Caltech, than to study in a Unilag that operates with sub-par facilities, lack of adequate faculty and resources, irregular school calender, and near-absence of research. In a Caltech you would feel you got your money's worth.

For the future employer, it should not be a question of 'did you go to Caltech or Unilag?' It should be more of 'Show me the value you can bring to this company'.