Preboy:
lotta arguments here abt stannis.... that guy sure offended the MANY GODS[bookworms & show loyals]



anyway, i rewatched ep 8 and figured that the other[kinda older] wild walker was just observing whilst the other one fought jon, seems the wild walkers have got some kinda rank system or something

and how can the wild walkers be called a different more intelligent RACE, when they are actually humans[turned by some wierd ice magic]


WINTER IS ALREADY COME

Do not mistake white walkers for wights.

They are called race because they share a common chracteristic that is persistent in both ancestor and offspring. They have a ranking system, are organised and can drAw symbols (season 1 ep 1) which suggests some level of intelligence.

LeSulk:

No doubt,Davos liked Shireen but I don't see him doing anything much.Yeah,he'll mutter and tell Stannis his mind,but that's that.The guy is very loyal.Recall,in S02, He told his first son that Stannis is his god.Also one of his son's name is also Stannis

Let's wait and see. It's like you don't know Davos. He will sha kill either that Red Woman or she will kill him lol. Don't know if this happened in the books or not ooo so pls I'm not posting a spoiler mods...

LeonStark:


He could have managed. Fished the lakes, which will be teeming with fish since its cold. They could have shown us Northern lords. There are lots of Castles he could have gone to ask for help, or he coulda tried to ask. They could have shown them suffering, not for him to just outright listen to Mel. He could have waited for Davos. It looked as if he sent Davos off, in a white elephant quest, and when Davos was gone burnt Shireen. He could have killed the horses and eaten them. As he burnt Shireen, food won't just come out of nowhere if it wasnt there in the first place. Davos was a smuggler for f*cks sake. Stannis just gave up.

I don't like the way you diss the writers but you have a point about Stannis - he had other options. The Red lady made him look. Now he's a slave to a page in her rhyme book. And please enough with the book references. I've read the books and I really the show so just allow us enjoy it. Mods should ban folks who discuss books in this TV thread.

- Ramsay 'the Stealth Fighter' Bolton

LeonStark:


But they werent stranded. They were in the wolfswood.

Wolfswood is a forest. Do you see any trees?

also quote from gameofthrones.wikia.com about the difficulties they encountered

However, the weather turns for the worse and a snow storm delays his army. Davos reports to him that forty horses have died and the Stormcrows, a sellsword company of five hundred men, have abandoned them. Disgruntled by these news, Stannis picks up the piece off the war map, asserting that sellswords are loyal to nothing but gold, before tossing the piece away. They are also running out of food, as they cannot open the supply lines until the snow clears. Stannis remains stubborn and refuses Davos's suggestion to return to Castle Black and wait out the winter there, on the basis that the winter may last several years and the Boltons will have strengthened their forces, and especially since he was previously forced to flee from the Battle of the Blackwater. He maintains that be it to victory or defeat, they will march forward. Later, Melisandre speaks alone with Stannis and reminds him that they may need to sacrifice more King's blood in order to better their chances of winning the upcoming battle in the snow which they both saw in the flames, citing the deaths of Robb Stark and Joffrey as examples. When Stannis says that they have no chance of locating Gendry, Melisandre suggests that they sacrifice Shireen. Stannis is visibly shocked and disgusted by the suggestion, asking her if she has lost her mind. She tries to convince him by saying that Stannis must be the undisputed king when the Long Night comes, but he rebuffs her and orders her to leave his presence.[37]

Later, Ramsay Bolton and 20 men set fire to many places in Stannis' camp. The result is the loss of men, horses and nearly the entire food supply. Stannis, who is desperate, turns to Melisandre and he finally accepts her suggestion at sacrificing his own daughter by burning her at the stake.

gj22:

We the show watchers understand the character for what he is. But the book readers understand the character IN THE BOOKS so they use that to judge the show character WHICH IS WRONG.

The show watchers judge the characters for eho they are while the book reaaders judge for who they should be,

This isnt true though. Tell me, what is Stannis ? Its an adaptation, they should have the same characteristics, sadly thry dont. Wrong. How do we judge them for who they should be ? How many book readers do you know.

You know. Lets just move on. What Stannis did was wrong.

LeonStark:


This isnt true though. Tell me, what is Stannis ? Its an adaptation, they should have the same characteristics, sadly thry dont. Wrong. How do we judge them for who they should be ? How many book readers do you know.

QUote from wikipedia

A film adaptation is the transfer of a written work, in whole or in part, to a feature film. It is a type of derivative work.

This is the mistake you book readers are making.. You think they must be the same. THEY DONT HAVE TO BE THE SAME.


I say you judge them for who they should be because.. You are using BOOK STANNIS' character to judge SHOW STANNIS' decisions. Thereby calling it "out of character"

Also its not bad writing if a character makes a decision "out of character" because it happens in the real world.

LeonStark:
You know. Lets just move on. What Stannis did was wrong.

Right and wrong is a point of view.(It depends on whose point of view you are approaching it)

To quote benjamin linus (LOST)

"Good is a point of view"


One thing is for sure though... IT WASNT OUT OF CHARACTER.

gj22:


I didnt. I thought he wanted to kill Dany. I was shocked and had to rewind before i saw the reaction on his face (when he noticed the assasin). He has saved her life twice, she will pull him out of the friendzone....[size=4pt]Hopefully[/size]

I didnt think Dany, tho couldnt figure who, that made the scene extra tense.
Well, he has earned the ladder...lets see if he'll climb out of it.

gj22:


If only being a true king were the criteria for being the king... it is not

Also, i could argue that a true king puts duty over family which is clearly what stannis did.

You talking like Tywin Lannister already. Dont end up like him

gj22:


Exactly. He left because he had no choice (remember ser davos told him to wait for Jon to come back with more men but he gave a reason why he cant wait for Jon [I dont remember the reason]). But the storm worsened half way through and he has lost more than half his men because they ran away (remember most of his men are sellswords he bought after going to the iron bank). He was willing to risk it and continue on his journey but ramsay snuck in and destroyed his food supply. Now he has no food, fewer men and a storm that is making it extremely difficult to travel. He sent ser davos to get more food(a fools errand because he wanted to kill shireen but even if it werent, it will take davos a long time to castle black and back and stannis made it clear THERE IS NO TIME). He knew the battle was loast before it even began and had no choice but to Sacrifice the poor girl. he was basically faced with the decision to sacriffice 2 things he loves...(Duty or family)...It is an understandable decision which a lot of people disagree with. It shows that Stannis values duty more than family.

If the red witch comes through, then he made the right decision. If she doesnt, then he will regret for the rest of his life.

This is the stannis we know and understand... A good man that was forced to make a hard choice between DUTY AND FAMILY.

I just imagine the burning the red priestess will get if her magic doesn't work. If I were Stannis I'll make all my men have their fill of her first b4 barbecuing her.

Magic must happen I episode 10.

Even though a man must abide by all rules, a man shouldn't be deprived from his rights to post by the Mod's/admin simply because he had a legitimate complaint.

Anyway . . . . . . . . Valar Dohaeris

Aida13:


Let's wait and see. It's like you don't know Davos. He will sha kill either that Red Woman or she will kill him lol. Don't know if this happened in the books or not ooo so pls I'm not posting a spoiler mods...

Lols at either one will kill themselves.

LeonStark:


It was still a choice show-Stannis made, cuz if not he wouldn't have met Davos, Robert wouldn't be king, it affects a lot of things. So show Stannis still made that choice.

This is the problem. The only reason you know that is because you have read the books. If the show writers wanted us to know that, they would have included it in the show the same way they included it for Jaimie and he says it clearly in the show. It was also established for cersei but it has never been established for stannis(how hard is it to include 1 line of quote?). We do not know if he had to make that decission in the past...Its a case of Schrodinger's cat


Now, even IF he did make that decision in the past, there is nothing wrong with the writing of the show if he makes a different decision now. This is because the decisions you make 20 years ago might not always be the same with the ones you make today under similar circumstances.

themodernman:


I just imagine the burning the red priestess will get if her magic doesn't work. If I were Stannis I'll make all my men have their fill of her first b4 barbecuing her.

Magic must happen I episode 10.

Just imagine Moses crossing the red sea... but this time, with snow


Melisandre.... The last SNOW BENDER.

gj22:


Just imagine Moses crossing the red sea... but this time, with snow


Melisandre.... The last SNOW BENDER.

*whew* After a loooong argument, goodnight guys

Eh gj22 it was still out of character for show Stannis. Remember when he told Mel that he wasn't going to burn his daughter or every single scene this season between him and his daughter or better yet the story where he brought every doctor he could find from all over the world to save his daughter even when everyone told him it was impossible. Does that sound like a guy that would turn around and sacrifice her?

The writers just went Oh this would be a very shocking scene and get people mad like every other episode nine so lets do it. To top it off their justification for doing it was stupid.

Anyway enough of about that, anybody else think the foreshadowing with Olly is getting a bit too much.

sage1000:
Eh gj22 it was still out of character for show Stannis. Remember when he told Mel that he wasn't going to burn his daughter or every single scene this season between him and his daughter or better yet the story where he brought every doctor he could find from all over the world to save his daughter even when everyone told him it was impossible. Does that sound like a guy that would turn around and sacrifice her?

The writers just went Oh this would be a very shocking scene and get people mad like every other episode nine so lets do it. To top it off their justification for doing it was stupid.

Anyway enough of about that, anybody else think the foreshadowing with Olly is getting a bit too much.

Everyone does something out of character once in a while.

What I have problem with is the bolded quote. The writers have a story to tell and they are telling it how they see fit. People are giving the writers too much sh*t unfairly..

At that point, it was basically to either give up his throne or sacrifice his daughter.


I agree, let's not argue this again.

“A girl says nothing. A girl keeps her mouth closed. No one hears.” -Jaqen to Arya Let's follow Jaqen's advice and quit using spoilers .Thanks

Couldn't resist giving one lat reply.

I don't see how he would win the throne after sacrificing his daughter. Remember she is his only heir also no great lord is going to support him now either because what he did is completely distasteful that even Roose would tell him it was a bad thing to do and lets not forget the last king they rebelled against, the Mad King who also had a fondness for burning people. Nobody is going to support a man that can burn his only child especially when they recall Aerys. Last thing, now the faith has a lot of power amongst the smallfolk and that is another faction he just alienated. Apart from his almost mutinous army, he has lost every support he might have gotten. So yeah he wins this battle but he has lost the war.

it is not really unfair, Stannis is a lot of people favorite character. What would you say if out of the blue they have Jon Snow rape a character or have Arya fall in love with Meryn Trant? That is exactly the same way Stannis fans feel about him burning his daughter.