Image123:

hmmm my two brothers and friends, don't fight na abi you want me to start crying?

The name is just tithe, it doesn't need any qualifiers. A tithe is a tenth.

Hmm....image don't cry o before me sef come join you. Don't worry, Bidam and I have settled it. Na the devil wan cause quarell but thank God for mercies.

Image123:

The name is just tithe, it doesn't need any qualifiers. A tithe is a tenth.

OK I accept your point.

You said it wasn't alms, then what is it?

My bro, you'll need to travel far small to get the trail of our discussion o

Candour:

OK I accept your point.

You said it wasn't alms, then what is it?

My bro, you'll need to travel far small to get the trail of our discussion o

merriam webster's

alms \ˈä(l)mz\

noun 1 archaic : charity 2 : something (as money or food) given freely to relieve THE POOR Other forms: plural alms

alms·giv·er \-ˌgi-vər\ noun

alms·giv·ing \-ˌgi-viŋ\ noun

Origin: Middle English almesse, almes, from Old English ælmesse, ælmes, from Late Latin eleemosyna alms, from Greek eleēmosynē pity, alms, from eleēmōn merciful, from eleos pity. First use: before 12th century



2

tithe \ˈtīth\

transitive verb 1 : to pay or give a tenth part of especially for the support of THE CHURCH 2 : to levy a tithe on intransitive verb : to give a tenth of one's income as a tithe Other forms: tithed; tith·ing Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogothian, from teogotha tenth. First use: before 12th century


tithe

noun 1 : a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment 2 : the obligation represented by individual tithes 3 : tenth; broadly : a small part 4 : a small tax or levy

Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogotha tenth; akin to Middle Low German tegede tenth, Old English tīen ten — more at ten. First use: before 12th century

Note the capital letters i used to specifically show THE POOR and THE CHURCH.

Image123: Note the capital letters i used to specifically show THE POOR and THE CHURCH.

Let's get the trail back. You said tithes belongs to the church and I asked who the church is.we both agreed its the congregation or group of believers and I then asked why I can't give the tithe a a group of needy family I fellowship with and you responded with your post below.

Image123:

Because the tithe is not alms.I has a different practice and purpose to serve. i have never given m tithe to my pastor BTW.

Then I asked that since the tithes is not alms, then what is it?

Candour:

Let's get the trail back. You said tithes belongs to the church and I asked who the church is.we both agreed its the congregation or group of believers and I then asked why I can't give the tithe a a group of needy family I fellowship with and you responded with your post below.



Then I asked that since the tithes is not alms, then what is it?

We give alms to the poor and needy. We give tithe(a tenth) to the church as a unit.Every church has leadership/elders held responsible and accountable by God.

Image123:

We give alms to the poor and needy. We give tithe(a tenth) to the church as a unit.Every church has leadership/elders held responsible and accountable by God.

Image123:

merriam webster's

alms \ˈä(l)mz\

noun 1 archaic : charity 2 : something (as money or food) given freely to relieve THE POOR Other forms: plural alms

alms·giv·er \-ˌgi-vər\ noun

alms·giv·ing \-ˌgi-viŋ\ noun

Origin: Middle English almesse, almes, from Old English ælmesse, ælmes, from Late Latin eleemosyna alms, from Greek eleēmosynē pity, alms, from eleēmōn merciful, from eleos pity. First use: before 12th century



2

tithe \ˈtīth\

transitive verb 1 : to pay or give a tenth part of especially for the support of THE CHURCH 2 : to levy a tithe on intransitive verb : to give a tenth of one's income as a tithe Other forms: tithed; tith·ing Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogothian, from teogotha tenth. First use: before 12th century


tithe

noun 1 : a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment 2 : the obligation represented by individual tithes 3 : tenth; broadly : a small part 4 : a small tax or levy

Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogotha tenth; akin to Middle Low German tegede tenth, Old English tīen ten — more at ten. First use: before 12th century

Your dictionary definitions are in order when you consider the church referenced there in the 12th century is the Catholic church and it was fully operational as at 380AD. A Google check of Catholic encyclopedia will reveal tithes didn't show face until 585AD or so and it was only farm products. In fact the first mention of it in the English language was in 786AD at a synod and it was to support the poor and clergy.

We go back to the bible for what it calls tithe and how its to be utilised and Debut 14:22-29, Num 18:21-32, Neh 10:37-39 describes it clearly so how does it transmute into the one we have today?

Typing on my phone so might not be so coherent. I'll get back to a computer in 1hr hopefully

Image123:

We give alms to the poor and needy. We give tithe(a tenth) to the church as a unit.Every church has leadership/elders held responsible and accountable by God.

If as you agreed, you and I are the church, why can't you and I pool our tithes together and distribute as the spirit leads? Must we have a particular set of people to administer it? Christ said where 2 or 3 are gathered, he's there so why can't me, you and Bidam administer it as a true church of God?

Candour:

If as you agreed, you and I are the church, why can't you and I pool our tithes together and distribute as the spirit leads? Must we have a particular set of people to administer it? Christ said where 2 or 3 are gathered, he's there so why can't me, you and Bidam administer it as a true church of God?

If we are the church, that would be the very thing to do. If we are more, the proper thing will be for the leadership to agree on what to do with it as te Spirit leads. That leadership may be the three of us coincidentally BTW.

Candour:

Your dictionary definitions are in order when you consider the church referenced there in the 12th century is the Catholic church and it was fully operational as at 380AD. A Google check of Catholic encyclopedia will reveal tithes didn't show face until 585AD or so and it was only farm products. In fact the first mention of it in the English language was in 786AD at a synod and it was to support the poor and clergy.

We go back to the bible for what it calls tithe and how its to be utilised and Debut 14:22-29, Num 18:21-32, Neh 10:37-39 describes it clearly so how does it transmute into the one we have today?

Typing on my phone so might not be so coherent. I'll get back to a computer in 1hr hopefully

i'll skip this, i'm not interested in any detailed tithe talk at the moment. That dictionary BTW states BEFORE 12th century i.e the word was in use before the 12th century. It is not with the intent of attaching a particular group to it.

Image123:

If we are the church, that would be the very thing to do. If we are more, the proper thing will be for the leadership to agree on what to do with it as te Spirit leads. That leadership may be the three of us coincidentally BTW.

Since we do with it as the Spirit leads, why create a dichotomy between tithes and other offerings? Why not ask people to bring as the Spirit leads since we've decided to be led by the Spirit in its disbursement contrary to how God told Moses to administer it in the law and also contrary to how Abram gave it to Melchizedek and Melchizedek alone?

Image123:

i'll skip this, i'm not interested in any detailed tithe talk at the moment. That dictionary BTW states BEFORE 12th century i.e the word was in use before the 12th century. It is not with the intent of attaching a particular group to it.

Sure the bible mentions Abraham's tithe and that was around 2000BC.

I also think its better to drop this angle as we are talking about biblical tithes.

Cheers

Candour:

Since we do with it as the Spirit leads, why create a dichotomy between tithes and other offerings? Why not ask people to bring as the Spirit leads since we've decided to be led by the Spirit in its disbursement contrary to how God told Moses to administer it in the law and also contrary to how Abram gave it to Melchizedek and Melchizedek alone?

You're getting somewhere and I perceive it in the spirit!

Candour:

Sure the bible mentions Abraham's tithe and that was around 2000BC.

I also think its better to drop this angle as we are talking about biblical tithes.

Cheers

Therefore, the first use is around 2000bc.

Candour:

Since we do with it as the Spirit leads, why create a dichotomy between tithes and other offerings? Why not ask people to bring as the Spirit leads since we've decided to be led by the Spirit in its disbursement contrary to how God told Moses to administer it in the law and also contrary to how Abram gave it to Melchizedek and Melchizedek alone?

Because the Spirit is not haphazard, He joys to behold order. Tithe is a type of offering, just that it is a tenth. Why should we assume that the Spirit does not lead people to bring the tithe?

Image123:

Because the Spirit is not haphazard, He joys to behold order. Tithe is a type of offering, just that it is a tenth. Why should we assume that the Spirit does not lead people to bring the tithe?

Who prompted Moses to give the tithe law the exact way he detailed it? God or his own human intellect? Would I be wrong to adopt that same format of presentation but much more importantly would it be wrong to adopt the same format of administration? I mean the same format in Deut 14:22-29?

I'm really interested in arriving at a conclusion so I'll await your reply

Candour:

Who prompted Moses to give the tithe law the exact way he detailed it? God or his own human intellect? Would I be wrong to adopt that same format of presentation but much more importantly would it be wrong to adopt the same format of administration? I mean the same format in Deut 14:22-29?

I'm really interested in arriving at a conclusion so I'll await your reply

First question, God.
All scripture is given by God' s inspiration and profitable for doctrine, teaching and exhortation. It would not be wrong also to look at all the parts and scriptures on tithing as a whole, instead of holding on to just one side. If that's what you want to do, and you're not usin g it to justify yourself, it will be a good work.

Image123:

First question, God.
All scripture is given by God' s inspiration and profitable for doctrine, teaching and exhortation. It would not be wrong also to look at all the parts and scriptures on tithing as a whole, instead of holding on to just one side. If that's what you want to do, and you're not usin g it to justify yourself, it will be a good work.

Yeah you're right it's God so i wonder why i can't adopt that same format if i am to tithe. If you are led by the Spirit to adopt the format you currently employ, would i be offending God if i have my own format different from yours when clearly the formats we both adopt is at variance with the format Abram used or the format God gave Moses for the Isrealites?

@ the bolded is the exact reason why i'm interested in this discussion. As we look at Heb 7, we should look at Deut 14. As we look at Mal 3, so we look at Matt 23, Numbers 18, Nehemiah 10, Gen 14 etc

It's not about justifying myself my bro but about allowing the reality of the liberty i have in Christ to shine forth

cheers

Candour:

Yeah you're right it's God so i wonder why i can't adopt that same format if i am to tithe. If you are led by the Spirit to adopt the format you currently employ, would i be offending God if i have my own format different from yours when clearly the formats we both adopt is at variance with the format Abram used or the format God gave Moses for the Isrealites?

@ the bolded is the exact reason why i'm interested in this discussion. As we look at Heb 7, we should look at Deut 14. As we look at Mal 3, so we look at Matt 23, Numbers 18, Nehemiah 10, Gen 14 etc

It's not about justifying myself my bro but about allowing the reality of the liberty i have in Christ to shine forth

cheers

God bless U my bros..pls can i get ur email address or fone no..there is sumtin i wud like 2 discus wit U..my email is henrybobnan@gmail.com..tanks!

brilapluz:
God bless U my bros..pls can i get ur email address or fone no..there is sumtin i wud like 2 discus wit U..my email is henrybobnan@gmail.com..tanks!

Thanks a lot.
I'll send you a mail ASAP
cheers

Image123:

merriam webster's
2

tithe \ˈtīth\

transitive verb 1 : to pay or give a tenth part of especially for the support of THE CHURCH 2 : to levy a tithe on intransitive verb : to give a tenth of one's income as a tithe Other forms: tithed; tith·ing Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogothian, from teogotha tenth. First use: before 12th century


tithe

noun 1 : a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment 2 : the obligation represented by individual tithes 3 : tenth; broadly : a small part 4 : a small tax or levy

Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogotha tenth; akin to Middle Low German tegede tenth, Old English tīen ten — more at ten. First use: before 12th century

Hmmmm.....

Image123 defining tithe using the dictionary.....

@image123, is your tithing activities defined by scriptures or by merriam Webster's?

Image123:
The name is just tithe, it doesn't need any qualifiers. A tithe is a tenth.

@image123, you told us "a tithe is a tenth", but to justify ya statement, you provided a tithing definition that says tithe is a tenth of something. see ya post from Merriam Webster below..... (observe the bit in blue)

Image123:
merriam webster's
2

tithe \ˈtīth\

transitive verb 1 : to pay or give a tenth part of especially for the support of THE CHURCH 2 : to levy a tithe on intransitive verb : to give a tenth of one's income as a tithe Other forms: tithed; tith·ing Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogothian, from teogotha tenth. First use: before 12th century


tithe

noun 1 : a tenth part of something paid as a voluntary contribution or as a tax especially for the support of a religious establishment 2 : the obligation represented by individual tithes 3 : tenth; broadly : a small part 4 : a small tax or levy

Origin: Middle English, from Old English teogotha tenth; akin to Middle Low German tegede tenth, Old English tīen ten — more at ten. First use: before 12th century

You see ya self even the reference you provided states that tithe is not just a tenth; it is a tenth of something. why you continue to deceive yaself, I don't know.

[quote author=Candour]

Yeah you're right it's God so i wonder why i can't adopt that same format if i am to tithe.

i'm surprised at such conclusion when i just said "If that's what you want to do, and you're not using it to justify yourself, it will be a good work."
i never said that you cannot adopt it. Who is hindering you from adopting it? Certainly not me.

If you are led by the Spirit to adopt the format you currently employ, would i be offending God if i have my own format different from yours when clearly the formats we both adopt is at variance with the format Abram used or the format God gave Moses for the Isrealites?

What is my format?

@ the bolded is the exact reason why i'm interested in this discussion. As we look at Heb 7, we should look at Deut 14. As we look at Mal 3, so we look at Matt 23, Numbers 18, Nehemiah 10, Gen 14 etc

And the bolded is what i previously said that i am not interested in. " i'm not interested in any detailed tithe talk at the moment." . i currently have a lot to do than to get into detailed talks and expositions or exegesis about tithe. i've talked on those passages in the past here on NL BTW. It's on other tithe threads, and Gosh, Kunle and co are witnesses. When i say "It would not be wrong also to look at all the parts and scriptures on tithing as a whole, instead of holding on to just one side." i'm not talking about myself wanting to have a detailed discussion, but about each individual studying the scriptures wholly instead of holding just one part.
Sorry, i beg to decline. i can only make one or two general comments at the moment.

It's not about justifying myself my bro but about allowing the reality of the liberty i have in Christ to shine forth

cheers

It will be a very good thing to use it to allow the reality of liberty to shine forth. Folks use their good deeds to try to justify themselves before God like it was in the Old Testament, but our good deeds should be to glorify God. That whatsoever we do, we may do to the glory of God.




@Zikky, is the tithe a tenth or no?

Image123:
i'm surprised at such conclusion when i just said "If that's what you want to do, and you're not using it to justify yourself, it will be a good work."
i never said that you cannot adopt it. Who is hindering you from adopting it? Certainly not me.

Good. that means no pastor has the right to dictate 10% or whatever % to his flock. Every child of God should purpose in his heart how he wants to do his giving in line with 2Cor 9:7. This agrees fully with the liberty we now enjoy as believers.

What is my format?

I am talking of the weekly, monthly monetary tithes which almost every pastor hammers on but which is at variance with the biblical format handed down.

And the bolded is what i previously said that i am not interested in. " i'm not interested in any detailed tithe talk at the moment." . i currently have a lot to do than to get into detailed talks and expositions or exegesis about tithe. i've talked on those passages in the past here on NL BTW. It's on other tithe threads, and Gosh, Kunle and co are witnesses. When i say "It would not be wrong also to look at all the parts and scriptures on tithing as a whole, instead of holding on to just one side." i'm not talking about myself wanting to have a detailed discussion, but about each individual studying the scriptures wholly instead of holding just one part.
Sorry, i beg to decline. i can only make one or two general comments at the moment.

Yeah i agree we've discussed it countless times and i wonder why we can't agree on the very obvious. Actually i've gone through all those chapters i listed and they were what God used to open my eyes to the reality of my liberty.

It will be a very good thing to use it to allow the reality of liberty to shine forth. Folks use their good deeds to try to justify themselves before God like it was in the Old Testament, but our good deeds should be to glorify God. That whatsoever we do, we may do to the glory of God.

Which is why we must encourage our brethren to stop trying to earn God's blessings. Some folks pay 10% and start crying to God to open the windows of heaven as if they and God are in a kind of business. They try to use tithes to force God's hands(infact i hear 'provoke God' very often). The train left that station a long time ago and it's now at the GRACE station where we have access to all goodies of God simply because of the obedience of Christ. we are in the family now and just as i don't pay my earthly daddy to love me, Why should i pay the almighty father before he meets my needs?

We give now because God has blessed us so much and there is no lower or upper limit to how we display gratitude to God.

God bless you bro

+
You can't limit the workings of God's Spirit to the way He is working with you. Just has you don't want people to be forced to pay tithes, so also is it not okay for you to force people not to pay. Every one has their own motivation for service, their motivation does not have to be limited to yours. Let the people serve their God.
Cheers

Image123: +
You can't limit the workings of God's Spirit to the way He is working with you. Just has you don't want people to be forced to pay tithes, so also is it not okay for you to force people not to pay. Every one has their own motivation for service, their motivation does not have to be limited to yours. Let the people serve their God.
Cheers

yes my bro. We are saying the same thing.

The pastors and those who scream pay 10% or things will be tight for you, devourer will come, you will be poor, fall sick, miss heaven etc are the culprits here for they go well beyond their mandate. They have no right to use any bible verse to take 10% out of the pocket of any child of God. If any one is led to pay 10%, good for him. He shouldn't force it on anybody just like i wont deny him that right.

Cheers bro

Image123: +
You can't limit the workings of God's Spirit to the way He is working with you. Just has you don't want people to be forced to pay tithes, so also is it not okay for you to force people not to pay. Every one has their own motivation for service, their motivation does not have to be limited to yours. Let the people serve their God.
Cheers

Where the Spirit of God operates there is liberty: freedom to act or give. Where another spirit operates there is bondage: a call to obligation, leglaism, or tithing.

That is how to distinguish Candour position from Image's. Both claim inspiration from scriptures, both claim to be allowing people freedom in religion but one claims there should liberty to give any percentage the other insists the minimum must be 10%.

Thank U jare candour for referring me to this thread. Its been an eye opener. This is all I intend to say on this thread.

*Unfollows thread*

DrummaBoy:

Where the Spirit of God operates there is liberty: freedom to act or give. Where another spirit operates there is bondage: a call to obligation, leglaism, or tithing.

That is how to distinguish Candour position from Image's. Both claim inspiration from scriptures, both claim to be allowing people freedom in religion but one claims there should liberty to give any percentage the other insists the minimum must be 10%.

Thank U jare candour for referring me to this thread. Its been an eye opener. This is all I intend to say on this thread.

*Unfollows thread*

Before you #unfollow thread#, I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE your message with that of Candour's.

We have a mandate of the new covenant to chase these legalistic teachers out with the preaching of the liberating word of truth!!!

Goshen360:

Before you #unfollow thread#, I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE your message with that of Candour's.

We have a mandate of the new covenant to chase these legalistic teachers out with the preaching of the liberating word of truth!!!

Enjoy your liberation nd allow us to enjoy ours, is that too hard a thing to ask? We have seen countless threads on why we MUST not tithe wih the continuous insistence that tithe is all that is being preached. Where? i have listened to Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Adeboye and co, i have checked all over the religion section of nl. i've not heard or seen this so called bombardment that they are accused of. erhaps, its all in your imaginations.

Goshen360:
We have a mandate of the new covenant to chase these legalistic teachers out with the preaching of the[b] liberating word of truth[/b]!!!

You re not preaching the liberating word of truth but liberalism. Liberalism always says: God never knows what He is talking about, so we have to interpret it for the people to truly understand.

There is a law, if you like, a code, to which we are expected to conform. Many Christians make the mistake of thinking that to be free from legalism you must become free from any law whatsoever. Nothing is further from the truth. The Scriptures never endorse that notion.Tithing is NEVER legalism.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus must be a legalist to say this in your opinion?

(1 Timothy 6:3-4) "If any man teach otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,"

oops!! Apostle Paul must also be a legalist to say we should follow the words of Jesus.

Words on the heart.