Bidam:
You re not preaching the liberating word of truth but liberalism. Liberalism always says: God never knows what He is talking about, so we have to interpret it for the people to truly understand.

There is a law, if you like, a code, to which we are expected to conform. Many Christians make the mistake of thinking that to be free from legalism you must become free from any law whatsoever. Nothing is further from the truth. The Scriptures never endorse that notion.Tithing is NEVER legalism.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus must be a legalist to say this in your opinion?

(1 Timothy 6:3-4) "If any man teach otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,"

oops!! Apostle Paul must also be a legalist to say we should follow the words of Jesus.

Matt 23:1-3
'Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2. Saying, the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses seat: 3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do : but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.'

I wonder why those who quote Matt 23:23 never mention verse 3. There your Lord and master clearly says YOU SHOULD DO ALL the Pharisees and Moses asks you to do if you believe he was referring to you and I in this dispentation in that chapter.

There are 613 things the Moses, the Scribes, the Pharisees want you to observe. The question is how many do you observe? Since you know in your heart that you don't observe all, another question is why your insistence on tithe? In case you don't know, Jesus referenced Mosaic tithe there NOT Abram's tithe hence his description of tithe as a lesser matter of the law so don't twist it pls

Bidam:
You re not preaching the liberating word of truth but liberalism. Liberalism always says: God never knows what He is talking about, so we have to interpret it for the people to truly understand.

There is a law, if you like, a code, to which we are expected to conform. Many Christians make the mistake of thinking that to be free from legalism you must become free from any law whatsoever. Nothing is further from the truth. The Scriptures never endorse that notion.Tithing is NEVER legalism.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus must be a legalist to say this in your opinion?

(1 Timothy 6:3-4) "If any man teach otherwise, and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,"

oops!! Apostle Paul must also be a legalist to say we should follow the words of Jesus.

The way and manner you handle the word of truth baffle me at times. So because something is "the words of Christ", we should just follow it. Do you know how many things came out of the mouth of Christ that you cannot follow? I have told you how to understand this your Matthew 23:23 but you close your eyes to the truth - just replace scribes and pharisees with the church, body of Christ, disciples, apostles and read it again.

Candour:

Matt 23:1-3
'Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2. Saying, the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses seat: 3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do : but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.'

I wonder why those who quote Matt 23:23 never mention verse 3. There your Lord and master clearly says YOU SHOULD DO ALL the Pharisees and Moses asks you to do if you believe he was referring to you and I in this dispentation in that chapter.

There are 613 things the Moses, the Scribes, the Pharisees want you to observe. The question is how many do you observe? Since you know in your heart that you don't observe all, another question is why your insistence on tithe? In case you don't know, Jesus referenced Mosaic tithe there NOT Abram's tithe hence his description of tithe as a lesser matter of the law so don't twist it pls

Oh so at last we agree that Jesus was talking to His disciples, not just pharisees. Welcome. We are to regard spiritual authority nd consider their end, looking to Jesus who remains the same yesterday, today and forever. That is a paraphrase of that passage. If scribes and pharisees are still sitting in the seat of authority, we should regrd them not subvert authority like is common on nl.

Image123:

Oh so at last we agree that Jesus was talking to His disciples, not just pharisees. Welcome. We are to regard spiritual authority nd consider their end, looking to Jesus who remains the same yesterday, today and forever. That is a paraphrase of that passage. If scribes and pharisees are still sitting in the seat of authority, we should regrd them not subvert authority like is common on nl.

Thank God,they are now shifting.

Candour:


There are 613 things the Moses, the Scribes, the Pharisees want you to observe.

Can you quote the 613 laws Jesus says to observe in the 4 synoptic gospels? I bet you can't. Let's start with woe. Read the matthew 23 account and be free.

Goshen360:

The way and manner you handle the word of truth baffle me at times. So because something is "the words of Christ", we should just follow it.

(John 14:21-24) "He who has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is who loves me: ... If a man loves me, he will keep my word: ... He who does not love me does not keep not my sayings: and the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me."

Bidam: Thank God,they are now shifting.

Goshen360:

The way and manner you handle the word of truth baffle me at times. So because something is "the words of Christ", we should just follow it. Do you know how many things came out of the mouth of Christ that you cannot follow? I have told you how to understand this your Matthew 23:23 but you close your eyes to the truth - just replace scribes and pharisees with the church, body of Christ, disciples, apostles and read it again.

Thank God oh Bidam, though we still need to intercede so that the likes of Gosh can stop posting ridiculous jargon as the above. How would any follower of Jesus say we should not and cannot follow the words of Jesus. i guess we should follpw him instead or we should hope on him to instruct us on which one to follow nd which one is rubbish. i'm expecting some christains that will like his post as well, so ludicrous i initially chose not to believe my eyes or comment on it.

double post

Image123:

Oh so at last we agree that Jesus was talking to His disciples, not just pharisees. Welcome. We are to regard spiritual authority nd consider their end, looking to Jesus who remains the same yesterday, today and forever. That is a paraphrase of that passage. If scribes and pharisees are still sitting in the seat of authority, we should regrd them not subvert authority like is common on nl.

Can u answer the questions I asked in my post you quoted?

613 laws of Moses,Scribes,Pharisees, why pick only tithe? What happened to the others?

Bidam: Thank God,they are now shifting.

Bidam, you're trying too hard.next time know the difference between Candour's post and Goshen's

Bidam: Can you quote the 613 laws Jesus says to observe in the 4 synoptic gospels? I bet you can't. Let's start with woe. Read the matthew 23 account and be free.

My dear you are the one who said Christ asked you to tithe NOT ME. I then said if Christ spoke to us in Matt 23:23, then he must have directed Matt 23:1-3 to us as well and there he said KEEP ALL LAWS OF MOSES, SCRIBES, PHARISEES, so tell me as a dutiful law keeper,how many do u keep?

You quote the tithe law consistently, how come you forgot the others?

You're the law keeper abi? Tell me the other laws you keep beside tithe

Image123:
@Zikky, is the tithe a tenth or no?

Don't ask me jor the merriam webster definition says "tithe is a tenth part of.." abi you want to deny you are not the one that provided the MW reference

Anyways, now that you are willing to learn i can tell you tithe is not a tenth and it is not 10%. "it is a tenth part of.." or "the tenth item" (according to scriptures o! i no dey use dictionary to define tithe )

Candour:


Bidam, you're trying too hard.next time know the difference between Candour's post and Goshen's

They means exactly they. I am not mincing words.BTW you refuse to reply my post.Why should Jesus use tithe as an example out of the 613laws of the pharisees?
Anytime you read your bible,try to see the spirit of the intent of what Jesus is saying.

Jesus rebuked the hypocrisy of the pharisees since they lacked inward virtues such as judgement,mercy and faith(may be this teaching is only applicable to his disciples and pharisees and is not applicable to you abi?).

Jesus never belittle tithing nor does he says it is passing away.What Jesus is telling you candour is that you should maintain both inward character (faith,love,justice,etc) and outward obedience,such as tithing.

Candour:

My dear you are the one who said Christ asked you to tithe NOT ME. I then said if Christ spoke to us in Matt 23:23, then he must have directed Matt 23:1-3 to us as well and there he said KEEP ALL LAWS OF MOSES, SCRIBES, PHARISEES, so tell me as a dutiful law keeper,how many do u keep?

You quote the tithe law consistently, how come you forgot the others?

You're the law keeper abi? Tell me the other laws you keep beside tithe

This is a cop out for religious laziness.Did Jesus says to tithe or not?

Image123:

Thank God oh Bidam, though we still need to intercede so that the likes of Gosh can stop posting ridiculous jargon as the above. How would any follower of Jesus say we should not and cannot follow the words of Jesus. i guess we should follpw him instead or we should hope on him to instruct us on which one to follow nd which one is rubbish. i'm expecting some christains that will like his post as well, so ludicrous i initially chose not to believe my eyes or comment on it.

When Jesus was presented in the temple as a baby, his mother offered 2 pigeons in deference to the laws of Moses(Lev 12:1-3, Luke 2:23-24). How many pigeons or turtle doves do your church members bring during dedication?

When Jesus cleansed a leper in Matt 8:4, he asked him to go to the priest and obey the law of Moses (Lev 14:4). Do those healed of leprosy in your church bring these items? If you say no leper has been cured in your church, if they get cured tommorow, will you ask them to obey this law since Christ expressly ORDERED this cured man to obey this law?

My bro, the cross made all the difference and that is what you MUST realise

Bidam: This is a cop out for religious laziness.Did Jesus says to tithe or not?

You are the one using escapist tactics bro and it marks of biblical dishonesty.

All 613 laws to keep according to Matt 23:1-3, why insist on only one called tithe?

My bro, we could go on and on o if you wish. I am more interested in other viewers of this thread so let's educate them together

Bidam: They means exactly they. I am not mincing words.BTW you refuse to reply my post.Why should Jesus use tithe as an example out of the 613laws of the pharisees?
Anytime you read your bible,try to see the spirit of the intent of what Jesus is saying.

Jesus rebuked the hypocrisy of the pharisees since they lacked inward virtues such as judgement,mercy and faith(may be this teaching is only applicable to his disciples and pharisees and is not applicable to you abi?).

Jesus never belittle tithing nor does he says it is passing away.What Jesus is telling you candour is that you should maintain both inward character (faith,love,justice,etc) and outward obedience,such as tithing.

How many of my questions have you answered?

When you get boxed into a corner, you start using spirit to cover face.

The same reason you refuse to obey Matt 23:1-3 is the same reason I don't follow Matt 23:23. Or is it not Jesus that spoke in both references?

The spirit of the law you keep talking about but don't understand is love. Love tells me to share with others less privileged, it doesn't hound me with a fixed rate.

Candour:
You are the one using escapist tactics bro and it marks of biblical dishonesty.

Nope, i am not.

All 613 laws to keep according to Matt 23:1-3, why insist on only one called tithe?

Because it predates the Law.now answer this question:Why should Jesus use tithe as an example out of the 613laws of the pharisees?

My bro, we could go on and on o if you wish. I am more interested in other viewers of this thread so let's educate them together

So am i.

Goshen360:

The way and manner you handle the word of truth baffle me at times. So because something is "the words of Christ", we should just follow it. Do you know how many things came out of the mouth of Christ that you cannot follow? I have told you how to understand this your Matthew 23:23 but you close your eyes to the truth - just replace scribes and pharisees with the church, body of Christ, disciples, apostles and read it again.

Speak for yaself.

Some will follow christ to the end, and not many as you presume.

Candour:

How many of my questions have you answered?

When you get boxed into a corner, you start using spirit to cover face.

The same reason you refuse to obey Matt 23:1-3 is the same reason I don't follow Matt 23:23. Or is it not Jesus that spoke in both references?

The spirit of the law you keep talking about but don't understand is love. Love tells me to share with others less privileged, it doesn't hound me with a fixed rate.

Me boxed? Are you dreaming? . You are the one getting your priorities misplaced here.First love your God then love your neighbors.

Bidam:
Because it predates the Law.

jesus was not referring to tithe that predates the law. He was talking about the tithe commandment delivered by Moses. if you say your tithing is because it predates the law, then Matthew 23:23 becomes irrelevant.

It appears you are confused. you need to make up your mind on why you tithe.

Bidam: Nope, i am not.
Because it predates the Law.now answer this question:Why should Jesus use tithe as an example out of the 613laws of the pharisees?

So am i.

I will answer after you answer my own question.

Why are u disobeying our Lord's injunction in Matt 23:1-3?

I'll answer yours when you answer mine

Bidam: Me boxed? Are you dreaming? . You are the one getting your priorities misplaced here.First love your God then love your neighbors.

I love my God dear friend just as you say you love him too. I only know my pastor isn't my God, neither is he a levite or a priest so I don't mix things up.

Zikkyy:

jesus was not referring to tithe that predates the law. He was talking about the tithe commandment delivered by Moses. if you say your tithing is because it predates the law, then Matthew 23:23 becomes irrelevant.

It appears you are confused. you need to make up your mind on why you tithe.

You don't get the point do you. He is the same God that instituted the covenants.Why should tithing stand out among many others.

Candour:

I will answer after you answer my own question.

Why are u disobeying our Lord's injunction in Matt 23:1-3?

I'll answer yours when you answer mine

Never mind.You love playing to the gallery.You don't have the answer.

Candour:

I love my God dear friend just as you say you love him too. I only know my pastor isn't my God, neither is he a levite or a priest so I don't mix things up.

The bible has been in existence long before you were born oga..God is not your mate..Since Jesus says(not pastor) to tithe.I damn well will tithe.

Bidam: Never mind.You love playing to the gallery.You don't have the answer.

And you have the answer to mine abi?

Bidam: The bible has been in existence long before you were born oga..God is not your mate..Since Jesus says(not pastor) to tithe.I damn well will tithe.

Phew......is my friend getting worked up? Relax pls

Go ahead and tithe all you want, I'm not stopping you but when you bring it to a public forum like this, you subject your views to scrutiny which is what I'm doing right now

Candour:

And you have the answer to mine abi?

Go back to the beginning of the thread and learn a thing or two about the covenants.Then we can talk. I did answer your question.

Bidam: Go back to the beginning of the thread and learn a thing or two about the covenants.Then we can talk. I did answer your question.

I read it and I understand it. Now I advice you do same.

You did not answer my question bro. The question is why do you disobey Matt 23:1-3? Show me where you answered it or put the answer here and I'll answer yours

Bidam my bro. It is well

Candour:

Phew......is my friend getting worked up? Relax pls

Go ahead and tithe all you want, I'm not stopping you but when you bring it to a public forum like this, you subject your views to scrutiny which is what I'm doing right now

Which yeye scrutiny? The bible is not subject to your private interpretations. Moreso the change of law doesn't necessary mean the moral laws in the tablet of stone is completely abolished, we can see the principles of this in the NT and so is tithing.

The only thing i don't see in the NT is the ceremonial regulations which Jesus came to do away with.You re the guy not rightly dividing scriptures. Not me

You say 613 laws? We even see Paul quoting some of these laws to validate his points concerning things Gentiles are to adhere to.
We see the Apostles quoting some of these laws in Acts 15:29. Now who is fooling who? SMH!!

Bidam: You don't get the point do you. He is the same God that instituted the covenants. Why should tithing stand out among many others.

He is the same God, we know. But what has the covenants got to do with ya tithing