JMAN05:

my dear, if this had been face to face discussion, our voice could have cracked while explaining this.

na wetin we dey see for house to house preaching.

Lol, seriously..

JMAN05:

so after reading that definition. even the first definition, you conclude that apparition is equal to ghost? oh! boy...., where did you go to school?

twisting my words don't help you.

Itsfacts:

twisting my words don't help you.

no. your words above showed that you misunderstood what i am saying, hence the clerification. I never said Jesus was lying, but you said i did.

JMAN05:

no. your words above showed that you misunderstood what i am saying, hence the clerification. I never said Jesus was lying, but you said i did.

or firstly i asked was Jesus lying when he says he is not a spirit you said no but you go on and insist he is a spirit. What does that mean? It means you are saying Jesus was lying that he is not a spirit when he.

Itsfacts:

or firstly i asked was Jesus lying when he says he is not a spirit you said no but you go on and insist he is a spirit. What does that mean? It means you are saying Jesus was lying that he is not a spirit when he.

Like i always say, it is the poor choice of words you are using, what Jesus meant as spirit in that verse is actually ghost today, Jesus was telling his disciples he wasn't a ghost(disembodied spirit of the dead).

Yes jman is right, Jesus was actually a spirit when he resurrected but its not the kind of spirit you and ravgach believe in, its not a disembodied spirit like ghost, Jesus resurrected a spirit being like angels, etc.

Jesus did not resurrect in a physical body, he resurrected in a spiritual body, a spiritual body is not a 'disembodied spirit like ghost', a spiritual body is the body spiritual beings have.

When we die, it is in a physical body but we resurrect in a spiritual body, like the body of angels, that's why Jesus compared us with angels when we resurrect.

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are giving in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mattew 22:30)

Now the question is: do the angels of God have a physical body? The answer is No!! They can only materialise into physical body but they actually have a spiritual body.

It is this same spiritual body Jesus resurrected in but materialised into physical body in order to show himself to his disciples, it is this same spiritual body the saints will resurrect in, not a physical body like you think Jesus resurrected in.

So the spirit Jesus was talking about is different from the spirit jman is talking about, Jesus was saying he wasn't a spirit(ghost) while jman is saying Jesus is a spirit(spiritual being) not 'disembodied spirit like ghost', so you can see he isn't saying Jesus is lying?

The problem is that you are still holding on to the word spirit in that passage instead of seeing it as ghost, spirit was used in that passage of the KJV because it was similar with ghost in archaic englsih, e.g holy ghost, holy spirit but using holy ghost in modern english is wrong because the word ghost has come to mean something different today, so saying holy ghost will mean you are referring to a dead person, the right word to use is holy spirit.

Until you differentiate between ghost(disembodied spirit of the dead appearing to the living) and spirit(a supernatural being like angels) in this discourse, you would still be having this problem you are having.

haibe:

Like i always say, it is the poor choice of words you are using, what Jesus meant as spirit in that verse is actually ghost today, Jesus was telling his disciples he wasn't a ghost(disembodied spirit of the dead).

Yes jman is right, Jesus was actually a spirit when he resurrected but its not the kind of spirit you and ravgach believe in, its not a disembodied spirit like ghost, Jesus resurrected a spirit being like angels, etc.

Jesus did not resurrect in a physical body, he resurrected in a spiritual body, a spiritual body is not a 'disembodied spirit like ghost', a spiritual body is the body spiritual beings have.

When we die, it is in a physical body but we resurrect in a spiritual body, like the body of angels, that's why Jesus compared us with angels when we resurrect.

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are giving in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven" (Mattew 22:30)

Now the question is: do the angels of God have a physical body? The answer is No!! They can only materialise into physical body but they actually have a spiritual body.

It is this same spiritual body Jesus resurrected in but materialised into physical body in order to show himself to his disciples, it is this same spiritual body the saints will resurrect in, not a physical body like you think Jesus resurrected in.

So the spirit Jesus was talking about is different from the spirit jman is talking about, Jesus was saying he wasn't a spirit(ghost) while jman is saying Jesus is a spirit(spiritual being) not 'disembodied spirit like ghost', so you can see he isn't saying Jesus is lying?

The problem is that you are still holding on to the word spirit in that passage instead of seeing it as ghost, spirit was used in that passage of the KJV because it was similar with ghost in archaic englsih, e.g holy ghost, holy spirit but using holy ghost in modern english is wrong because the word ghost has come to mean something different today, so saying holy ghost will mean you are referring to a dead person, the right word to use is holy spirit.

Until you differentiate between ghost(disembodied spirit of the dead appearing to the living) and spirit(a supernatural being like angels) in this discourse, you would still be having this problem you are having.

the words above is in conflict with the words below.

haibe:

The bible said the bodies of those saints arosed and you are telling me this isn't resurrection? Then what is it?

How on earth will you think after they arosed, their body left back to the grave and their spirit went to heaven? Ur pathetic interpretation again.

Where in the old testament did the bible say when the saints died they went to garden of eden or an invisible paradise? What then is the essence of the new jerusalem?

oh see, another conflict

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

oh look another

haibe:

Well i have no problem about the bodily resurrection of christ, i don't know about the Jw's belief on this.

The problem i have is that human beings have immortal soul/spirits that can exist as a separate entity from their body and so can go to heaven or hell immediately after death, this is very absurd and unscriptural.

you just argue isnt it? you dont even have a specific beliefs. today you beliefs is A tomorrow it is B and next tomorrow it is A and B.

later you will use assumption to back up your claim that Jesus later told them he is not a spirit.

give me one Good reason why i should continue?

Itsfacts:

the words above is in conflict with the words below.

Mr man when i say Jesus resurrected bodily i don't mean in a physical body but in a spiritual body, i said that so you guys won't think he resurrected in a ghost-like or disembodied spirit.

Jesus resurrected bodily but not in a physical body, its in a spiritual body and spiritual body is not a ghost-like body/disembodied spirit, do you get it now?

Quote:The bible said the bodies of those saints
arosed and you are telling me this isn't
resurrection ? Then what is it?
How on earth will you think after they
arosed, their body left back to the grave
and their spirit went to heaven? Ur pathetic
interpretation again.

The above was an argument against ravgach's point that the spirit which is already in heaven will enter into the body that is dead. Ravgach said those saints arose to heaven with Jesus and i then gave an example of david's body which peter said is still in the grave and that how is it possible that david body is still in the grave if the saints really went to heaven, is it that their bodies left back to the grave? He then said it want resurrection, so i replied saying if it isn't resurrection what then is it..

That is the context of our discussion in the above you quoted, you just quote without understanding what our discussion was about.

haibe:

Mr man when i say Jesus resurrected bodily i don't mean in a physical body but in a spiritual body, i said that so you guys won't think he resurrected in a ghost-like or disembodied spirit.

Jesus resurrected bodily but not in a physical body, its in a spiritual body and spiritual body is not a ghost-like body/disembodied spirit, do you get it now?

I feel sorry for you.

Quote: Well i have no problem about the bodily
resurrection of christ, i don't know about
the Jw's belief on this.
The problem i have is that human beings have
immortal soul/spirits that can exist as a
separate entity from their body and so can
go to heaven or hell immediately after
death, this is very absurd and unscriptural.


The above was my response to you when you accused the jehovah witness of teaching that Jesus resurrected in a spirit/ghost-like form

I then said Jesus resurrected bodily in a spiritual body and not a ghost-like form.

It was later that jman came to clearify that he never said Jesus resurrected in a ghost-like form.

So you were the one who mis-interpreted the jehovah witness saying they teach that Jesus resurrected in a spirit/ghost-like form and so i countered that saying Jesus resurrected in a spiritual body and not a spirit(ghost-like) form.

haibe: Quote: Well i have no problem about the bodily
resurrection of christ, i don't know about
the Jw's belief on this.
The problem i have is that human beings have
immortal soul/spirits that can exist as a
separate entity from their body and so can
go to heaven or hell immediately after
death, this is very absurd and unscriptural.


The above was my response to you when you accused the jehovah witness of teaching that Jesus resurrected in a spirit/ghost-like form

I then said Jesus resurrected bodily in a spiritual body and not a ghost-like form.

It was later that jman came to clearify that he never said Jesus resurrected in a ghost-like form.

So you were the one who mis-interpreted the jehovah witness saying they teach that Jesus resurrected in a spirit/ghost-like form and so i countered that saying Jesus resurrected in a spiritual body and not a spirit(ghost-like) form.

1 my first banta with jman was that he said Jesus resurrect as a spirit creature which is like angels and you said you dont believe jesus resurrected as a spirit creature that you believe he resurrected bodily with a glorified spiritual body.

it was later when you people say there is no such thing as dead person spirit coming and walking on earth that i banta jman again that he says jesus resurrected as a ghost. why? because if you Jesus was dead then he came back as a spirit creature then you are also saying he came back as a ghost by your definition.

you said Ghost is when a dead person spirit appears. and jman says Jesus died, his body was disposed by God then his spirit come to the disciples. by your definition of Ghost is that not what it is?

Itsfacts:

I feel sorry for you.

you should be sorry for yourself, how would you think Jesus would resurrect in a physical body after dieing in that same physical body, haven't you read that we will be changed at the ressurection, why then are you contradicting the scriptures?

1 Corinthians15:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED,
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must PUT ON IMMORTALITY.

so you can see how absurd your logic is, if we are to resurrect in that same physical/mortal/corruptible body we die in, how then would we enter the kingdom of God? and how can you reconcile it with the verses above?

Smh!! haven't you heard that flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of God?

I am really sorry for you.

Itsfacts:

you said Ghost is when a dead person spirit appears. and jman says Jesus died, his body was disposed by God then his spirit come to the disciples. by your definition of Ghost is that not what it is?

I don't know where jman said Jesus body was disposed by God and his spirit came to his disciple.

I doubt that is what jman said.

but the bible says WE WILL BE CHANGED, not that our body will be disposed by God. what I have heard jman say is that Jesus will resurrect as a spirit person and not a disembodied spirit (ghost).

Itsfacts:

1 my first banta with jman was that he said Jesus resurrect as a spirit creature which is like angels and you said you dont believe jesus resurrected as a spirit creature that you believe he resurrected bodily with a glorified spiritual body.

it was later when you people say there is no such thing as dead person spirit coming and walking on earth that i banta jman again that he says jesus resurrected as a ghost. why? because if you Jesus was dead then he came back as a spirit creature then you are also saying he came back as a ghost by your definition.

A spirit creation is not a ghost, if a spirit creation is a ghost then it means angels are ghosts.

what we are saying is Jesus resurrect as a spirit being in a spiritual body and not a disembodied spirit or ghost that you people imagine to exist.

A ghost is dead while a spirit is alive, Jesus didn't resurrect as a ghost but as a spiritual being, he has been a spiritual being before coming to earth so how do you expect him to go to heaven as a physical being?

Itsfacts:

1 my first banta with jman was that he said Jesus resurrect as a spirit creature which is like angels and you said you dont believe jesus resurrected as a spirit creature that you believe he resurrected bodily with a glorified spiritual body.

it was later when you people say there is no such thing as dead person spirit coming and walking on earth that i banta jman again that he says jesus resurrected as a ghost. why? because if you Jesus was dead then he came back as a spirit creature then you are also saying he came back as a ghost by your definition.

you said Ghost is when a dead person spirit appears. and jman says Jesus died, his body was disposed by God then his spirit come to the disciples. by your definition of Ghost is that not what it is?

Please i humbly demand a prove of the bolded.

quote when i said the bolded. am waiting...

haibe:

you should be sorry for yourself, how would you think Jesus would resurrect in a physical body after dieing in that same physical body, haven't you read that we will be changed at the ressurection, why then are you contradicting the scriptures?

1 Corinthians15:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED,
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must PUT ON IMMORTALITY.

so you can see how absurd your logic is, if we are to resurrect in that same physical/mortal/corruptible body we die in, how then would we enter the kingdom of God? and how can you reconcile it with the verses above?

Smh!! haven't you heard that flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of God?

I am really sorry for you.

are you an olodo? did Lazarus resurrect from the same body he died on? did jesus get him a new body when he died? are you crazy?

when the bible says corruptible will put on incorruptible is it not saying our body will put up or add something better to it? i mean the body we already have. ok you mean to say God will kill us and raise us up as a spirit? how is that a body putting on something?

you better learn english my friend.

Jesus raised the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:11-17), Jairus' daughter (Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:21-43; Luke 8:40-56), and Lazarus (John 11:1-44).

are this people raise in another body?
check meaning of resurrection it is when something dies and that same thing rise again.

Itsfacts:

1 my first banta with jman was that he said Jesus resurrect as a spirit creature which is like angels and you said you dont believe jesus resurrected as a spirit creature that you believe he resurrected bodily with a glorified spiritual body.

where did I say I do not believe that Jesus ressurected as a spirit creature, please dont quote me wrong I only said Jesus did not resurrect as a spirit(what you call ghost), Jesus ressurected as a spirit being not a spirit (as in ghost).

you accused the jw of preaching that Jesus ressurected a spirit (ghost) and that is why I responded saying Jesus resurected bodily as a spiritual being not physical or ghost like form.

JMAN05:

Please i humbly demand a prove of the bolded.

quote when i said the bolded. am waiting...

read that post again and understand it. I said, jman says jesus was a ghost because of. in that same post the reason was giving.

but

you people say when some dies and comes back as a spirit it is a ghost that ghost dont exist. but you agree Jesus died and come back as a spirit creatures.
the angels never died and become spirits. they are spirit from creation. Jesus died as a human and you and jman says he came back as a spirit creature which almost means you are saying jesus is a ghost since you say he is a spirit of and was human before and died.

Itsfacts:

you people say when some dies and comes back as a spirit it is a ghost that ghost dont exist. but you agree Jesus died and come back as a spirit creatures.
the angels never died and become spirits. they are spirit from creation. Jesus died as a human and you and jman says he came back as a spirit creature which almost means you are saying jesus is a ghost since you say he is a spirit of and was human before and died.

okay I understand that you misunderstood us, a disembodied spirit (ghost) is different from a spirit being like angels.

do you get the difference now?

Jesus has been a spirit being before coming in form of human being, and so when going back to heaven he goes in his spiritual nature back, is this difficult to understand?

haibe:

where did I say I do not believe that Jesus ressurected as a spirit creature, please dont quote me wrong I only said Jesus did not resurrect as a spirit(what you call ghost), Jesus ressurected as a spirit being not a spirit (as in ghost).

you accused the jw of preaching that Jesus ressurected a spirit (ghost) and that is why I responded saying Jesus resurected bodily as a spiritual being not physical or ghost like form.

this is where i start to call you a liar.
see what you post

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

haibe:

okay I understand that you misunderstood us, a disembodied spirit (ghost) is different from a spirit being like angels.

do you get the difference now?

SMH. tell me what i dont know.

Itsfacts:

this is where i start to call you a liar.
see what you post

you are only showing how unintelligent you are, can't you see the two quotes you quoted are in agreement.

Jesus didn't ressurect as a spirit (what you call ghost or dead man apparition)but a spirit being like the angels

is it that you are dull to comprehend the difference or what?

haibe:

you are only showing how unintelligent you are, can't you see the two quotes you quoted are in agreement.

Jesus didn't ressurect as a spirit (what you call ghost or dead man apparition)but a spirit being like the angels

is it that you are dull to comprehend the difference or what?

you said he resurrected bodily. you are a liar. mind you. i know the difference between spirit beings and ghost.
you admit that jesus was raise bodily. stop lying

Itsfacts:

you said he resurrected bodily. you are a liar. mind you. i know the difference between spirit beings and ghost.
you admit that jesus was raise bodily. stop lying

what is the difference between ressurection in a spiritual body and ressurection as a spirit being?

haibe:
where did I say I do not believe that Jesus
ressurected as a spirit creature, please
dont quote me wrong I only said Jesus did
not resurrect as a spirit(what you call
ghost), Jesus ressurected as a spirit being
not a spirit (as in ghost).
you accused the jw of preaching that
Jesus ressurected a spirit (ghost) and
that is why I responded saying Jesus
resurected bodily as a spiritual being not
physical or ghost like form.

this is the first one you quote, I said Jesus resurected as a spiritual being and not physical or ghost like form

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said
God will resurrect us as a disembodied
spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.
God will resurrect us bodily like he
resurrected Jesus but in a glorified,
immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

this is the second on you quoted, I said "I never said God will ressurect us as a disembodied spirit or your ghost like creature" but that God will ressurect us in a spiritual body



Now in order to rule out the stu.pidity you displayed, show me how this post contradicts the first.

haibe:

what is the difference between ressurection in a spiritual body and ressurection as a spirit being?

1: spirit dont have flesh and bones. Jesus told you so.
2: resurrection means same thing that died rise again.

how does spiritual body means the body is a spirit?
why did the bible says the corruptible body will put on incorruptible? and the mortal body will put on immortal? What does put on means?

haibe:

this is the second on you quoted, I said "I never said God will ressurect us as a disembodied spirit or your ghost like creature" but that God will ressurect us in a spiritual body



Now in order to rule out you unintelligence, show me how this post contradicts the first.

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.

what does resurrect bodily means?

o guy i tire for you kpatakpata

Itsfacts:

are you an olodo? did Lazarus resurrect from the same body he died on? did jesus get him a new body when he died? are you crazy?

the resurrection of lizarus is not the type the saints are destined to have. lizarus died afterward, the saints wont die again when the reveive the resurrection to which they are destined to have in heaven. Jesus was the first who had such resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

when the bible says corruptible will put on incorruptible is it not saying our body will put up or add something better to it? i mean the body we already have. ok you mean to say God will kill us and raise us up as a spirit? how is that a body putting on something?

you better learn english my friend.

mark the word " we shall be changed". you are not puting something into your corrupted body to make it incorruptible.

You will just change. when they put on immortality and incorruptibility, that there body will change to a spirit body. no human eye will see them again.

meaning that they will drop the physical body and put in or being raised in a spiritual one.

Jesus raised the widow's son at Nain (Luke 7:11-17), Jairus' daughter (Matthew 9:18-26; Mark 5:21-43; Luke 8:40-56), and Lazarus (John 11:1-44).

are this people raise in another body?
check meaning of resurrection it is when something dies and that same thing rise again.

those people above didnt attain the resurrection the saints are destined to have.

Jesus was the first to be resurrected to such.

resurretion is the act of arising from the dead and becoming alive again. the main point in this definition is "becoming alive again".

whether the person is alive in the spirit body or physical body, it is still resurrection. the emphases is not on the body with which he died but on the person who died.

Itsfacts:

haibe:

This question is not for me, i never said God will resurrect us as a disembodied spirit or your 'ghost-like' creature.

God will [b]resurrect us bodily like he resurrected Jesus but in a glorified, immortal, incorruptible, spiritual body.[/b]

what does resurrect bodily means?

o guy i tire for you kpatakpata

lol so you think God will ressurecte us as a disembodied spirit like ghost

Mr man why are you always showing that you have superficial knowledge and wisdom,?


God will ressurect every saint in a spiritual body like that of angels, haven't you read that in the bible? lol

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a
spiritual body. There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body."

look at this guy, so because I said bodily you just conclude I meant physical body and not spiritual body??

you are the worst loafer I have met on nairaland.

haibe:

lol so you think God will ressurecte us as a disembodied spirit like ghost

Mr man why are you always showing that you have superficial knowledge and wisdom,?


God will ressurect every saint in a spiritual body like that of angels, haven't you read that in the bible? lol

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a
spiritual body. There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body."

look at this guy, so because I said bodily you just conclude I meant physical body and not spiritual body??

you are the worst loafer I have met on nairaland.

just be ashamed of your self abeg.

i never said God will resurrect us as a spirit not to talk of Ghost. you have been caught and you want to use this rubbish you post to change the topic.

@itsfact you have superficial knowledge of the scriptures .

how can you be comparing the ressurection of lazarus with the ressurection of the saints at Christ second coming?

the poverty in knowledge you posess is beyond me, I don't just get how someone can be so dull like you.