christemmbassey: Bidam, u never cease to amaze me, u whey dey pursue ppl wages n salaries to buy jets n d man who refuses to join d scamboree, who is looking for earthly inheritance? , this has shown dat bc u are a beneficiary of this fraud, u av refused to preach d truth u know, what is d dif between u and naija police/politician.

Talking about beneficiary of money frauds.Were you not the guy that cleverly used a demonic trick by ingeniously capitalizing on the the northern situation to defraud nairalanders of 1000 naira? who is fooling who here? To make matters even worse, you said you've been waiting and praying for the opportunity to defraud people. And since boko haram presented the best scenario, you decided to capitalize on the sympathies of unsuspecting folks to defraud them of their hard earned cash. Only God knows how long you have been in this business of fraud,using the church of Christ as a front.Stomach inspired pastor indeed.SMH!!

christemmbassey: [size=16pt]I have been waiting and praying [/size]for a while since the advent of the devilish activities of the satanic boko haram, expecting to see our big MOG, thier big churches, PFN, CAN' or even rich individual christians, preach, encourage and actually organize a kind of programme where christians especially in the south will be opportuned to contribute something to sucour our northern brethren. THIS IS FOR (GENUINE)? Christians,[size=16pt] I want us to discus how we can set up a relief fund where we cand all send N1,000 each to rebuild church and lives in northern Nigeria. [/size]Pls read Nehemiah 1:1-4, nehemiah 2:1-20. DO SOMETHING-THE HOUSE OF GOD MUST BE REBUILD. U R BLESSED

striktlymi: I hope you did not intend to use sacred scriptures to threaten anyone here. Have u finished helping the poor in ur community, let alone extending same to the poor in the North?

Guy like I said, if you want to do something about those in the North, u are free but don't allow ur piety to affect those around u such that u would need to "threaten" someone. Yes, I call the quote a "threat".

Must someone help those in need through your method? Smeone can still help those in need without necessarily following your suggestions. If u think u have a speccial calling to help those in the north, why not go there and help them?

I am sure u would get aid when people see how genuine u are. If u don't want to make use of the alreadyy established NGO's then u are free to go there. If u are particular about it being Christian then go to the website of This NGO : Christian aid, and see how u can help.

I now understand your fixation of attacking every post i make on nairaland.So na because i block your kulikuli and garri. Chei!

seyibrown: One of the problems in the Church today is that people are pressured to give, forced to give, conned to give and some just give because others are giving and they do not want to be left out. Giving should come from the heart, from compassion ... and one gives from what one has. I don't agree that Naija Xtians are selfish ... they are the most milked Xtians in the world. One person cannot give to every cause and is why I am of certain that if God has a hand in it, it will not fail. The contributions you want will come. If on the other hand it is a secular 'burden', I am sure it can be taken care of the secular way!

Chrsitemmbassey repent o
https://www.nairaland.com/1123435/lets-rebuid-house-god-northern#13248219

Mark Miwerds: 1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

The word "prospered" is translated from the Greek word "euodoo", which means, "from a compound of 2095 and 3598; to help on the road, i.e. (passively) succeed in reaching; figuratively, to succeed in business affairs:--(have a) prosper(-ous journey)."

euodoo was never translated as proportion in the Bible. The word used by the Greeks for "proportion" was the word "analogia". Found only in one verse of the New Testament.

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Back to 1 Corinthians 16:2. That verse was not speaking of proportion or percentage. It was speaking of prosperity. As God had made them prosperous.

Paul also was not speaking of tithes. He was speaking of a collection for the saints at Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 16:1-4 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.

The Greek word for "collection" was the word "logia." Again, nothing to do with tithes. Had Paul been speaking of tithes, he would have used the word "apodekatoo." Paul did not use the Greek for "tithes" in any of his epistles. The collection in 1 Corinthians 16 was merely a love offering to ease burdened saints in Jerusalem.

When they want to put wool over our eyes, they will jump into seminary speeches. Any literate knows what proportion is. It is ratio, percentage, as God has, in ratio to, in proportion to how God has prospered you. No need to fly off tangent updating us on the greek of prosper. i did not mention prosper, i quoted Bible and Bible states proportion.

Image123:

When they want to put wool over our eyes, they will jump into seminary speeches. Any literate knows what proportion is. It is ratio, percentage, as God has, in ratio to, in proportion to how God has prospered you. No need to fly off tangent updating us on the greek of prosper. i did not mention prosper, i quoted Bible and Bible states proportion.

funny, i quoted Bible. And Bible states prospered, not proportion.

I will quote it one more:

1 Corinthians 16:2 (KJV) 2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Of interest, not one version translated into the English tongue prior to the nineteenth century used the word "proportion" in that verse.

Bidam:

I now understand your fixation of attacking every post i make on nairaland.So na because i block your kulikuli and garri. Chei!

Chrsitemmbassey repent o
https://www.nairaland.com/1123435/lets-rebuid-house-god-northern#13248219

smh. my very eyes may just see ugly, ugly, uguguguly.

Image123:
What of the tithe that Abraham gave, what category does it fall? Or you do not approve it?

It's not in any of the category and it's not for him to approve or dis-approve.

Image123:
The purpose of the tithe is to support the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. At a point, they were simply firstborns from any tribe, at another point, they were from Levi tribe, at another point, they are of the order of Melchisedec.

are you saying firstborn from any tribe served in the temple/tabernacle please clarify.

Image123:
The purpose of the tithe is to support the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. At a point, they were simply firstborns from any tribe, at another point, they were from Levi tribe, at another point, they are of the order of Melchisedec.

what's this talk bout supporting priests that are of the order of the Melchizedek. You are saying the purpose of the tithe is to support people (of the order of Melchizedek) that serve in the temple/tabernacle image123, this your desperate attempt to justify a pastoral fraud is making you speak in greed inspired tongues o!

Image123:
So, the true purpose is, why Levi? Because they are the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle.

It's not just because they are people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. Levites don't serve in the temple at the same time. They get the tithe first for belonging to the tribe of Levi.

Mark Miwerds: funny, i quoted Bible. And Bible states prospered, not proportion.

I will quote it one more:

1 Corinthians 16:2 (KJV) 2 Upon the first [day] of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as [God] hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

As usual, you come off s someone who does not read to understand but to quickly hit the reply button. The phrase in line is "as God hath".
Here is the passage again, goodnews i think.


1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be
raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the
churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in
proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will
be no need to collect money when I come.

Image123:
Seminary songs.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in PROPORTION to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
Do you know that proportion is another word for percentage?

every use of earnings is a proportion of something. if you go shopping at shoprite, you will be spending a proportion of your income. the poster was not saying Christians are not required to give a proportion of their income. read the post again (below)....

"Christians are not required to give a set percentage of our income regardless of how it is required" i.e. Christians are not required to give a 'fixed' % of their income. The issue has to do with pastors specifying the % to give, Paul did not.

1Co 16:2 is not saying they should put aside a defined or fixed % of their earnings. when Paul said in proportion to what you have earned, he is saying as you have been blessed or prospered. for those that have little put a little something aside, and for those that have more (or earned more) save a little more. he expected the rich to give more than the poor, but that does not translate to everybody giving a fixed 10% or 20%. It cannot be used to justify tithing.

Image123:

smh. my very eyes may just see ugly, ugly, uguguguly.

Don't mind the HYPOCRITE imagine him quoting OT scripture

christemmbassey: Pls read Nehemiah 1:1-4, nehemiah 2:1-20. DO SOMETHING-THE HOUSE OF GOD MUST BE REBUILD. U R BLESSED

and this

christemmbassey: Then shal he say also unto them on the lefthand, depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for devil and his angels, for I was hungry and ye pave me no meat , i was tasty ye gave me no drink,..... Romans:25:31-46

To support his fraudulent 1000 naira ponzi scheme. Yet he had the effontery to judge pastor chris.

This guy don start milking im sheep,no be today.Now tell me what will happen if he had the opportunity of pastoring a thousand members.

Na yachts and carribean islands he go dey cruise for im holidays, no be jets e go buy o.

Image123:
Any literate knows what proportion is. It is ratio, percentage, as God has, in ratio to, in proportion to how God has prospered you.

Agreed. proportion is ratio, percentage but you have to be an illiterate to say proportion means 10%

Image123: You imply it when you do not believe Malachi 3v8-10. Do you believe Malachi 3v8-10?

Again, I have never stated I do not believe Malachi 3v8-10 so how have you arrived at this conclusion? Malachi 3v8-10 is the word of God and truth - if my views were never clear, I hope they are now.

If by ‘believing’ Malachi, you are asking whether I consider this as mandatory for Christians, then that is a separate matter.

The scriptures make no such distinctions. Tithes is tithes and offerings are offerings and acceptable to God, whatever the format or dispensation. That is, whether i am offering my heart or my song or my money or my animals or my crops, they are all offerings to God.

The latter phrase is correct, however specific passages refer to specific offerings and tithes. They do not stand in isolation, nor are they generic. Tithing in Malachi is a direct reference to previous instructions in Leviticus, so are the offerings, so is the reference to the storehouse. It is not a catch all, neither is it a ‘convert it to what you want it’ passage - it is specific.

However, the Word of God teaches which is more excellent and appropriate. It is same with the tithe, whether coming from Abraham, or myself or from Levi or Moses, the tithe is simply a tenth-10% of a 100% or whole, given to God.

Correct, but again, in Malachi, it is not Abram’s, neither is it yours - it is the specific tithe commanded from the land from Israelites as belonging to God. It cannot be extricated from that context and converted to mean whatever you want it to mean.

Moses never mentioned a storehouse when he was writing about the tithes and offerings. Both tithes and offerings are brought to the storehouse and belong to God. The New Testament calls them the offerings of God-Luke 21. The treasury is the storehouse and is referred to as the offerings of God. They belong to God. This is the position Abraham held, the same position the Israelites held, and the same position which i hold, that God has given me all things, and i give the tithe specifically to His ministers.

The latter is your opinion which you are free to hold. However, there is a distinction between personal opinion and doctrine/requirements for Christians.

The book of Malachi and every other book refers to all. i will have to quote it again so that you see it.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living, 2Ti 3:17 so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed. -GoodNews.

Useful for teaching is not the same as saying Israelites were commanded to do x therefore Christians have to do x as well; unless you understand this elementary distinction, it is a waste of time.

It does not refer to only the Israelites or those under the law. The apostles never saw the scriptures that way, neither did Jesus. Among other things, Malachi also talks about marriage and God's will for marriage. It talks about John baptist, and about Jesus. It talks about God rewarding those that serve Him. It talks about the coming judgement. All these are not just for the nation of Israel. The last verse talks about coming to smite the earth with a curse. It would be foolhardy to bury the head in the sand, like an ostrich, and say stuff like Malachi is just for the nation of Israel. Thank God, at least, its not as bad as some who say it is just for priests.

We are not discussing the book of Malachi in total, we are discussing a specific passage - I hope you realise that. I also hope you are able to understand that a passage can have specific elements with general application while having others with limited or specific application. Can you can identify where Jesus taught those not under the law to tithe based on Malachi 3v8-10? If you can, please show me.

Again, I am not against taking teaching from the book of Malachi, what I am stating is that a specific instruction in Malachi (based on Leviticus’ instruction) is not compulsory or a requirement, except for those the latter instruction applied to. If an individual chooses to use that teaching as an example, then it is a personal decision - I have no issues with that.

The apostles as recorded never taught anyone to tithe - whether based on Malachi or any other passage for that matter, so there is no hiding under how the apostles ‘considered scripture’.

It is not anything we wish. It is clear and plain common sense if i may use that word. The era of the levitical priesthood is gone. The order of the priesthood of Melchisedec is here They both received the tithe and are both of God. The tithes belong to God, we give them to God through His ministers. This is what Abraham did, and what the Israelites also did. It is from this same wisdom of sustaining the ministers that Joseph applied the tax in Egypt to help sustain the economy.

Melchisedec did not require tithe to sustain himself - instead, he sustained Abram by refreshing him. Melchisedec did not need sustenance from Abram - let that sink in for a moment. Pastors are not those in the order of Melchisedec - Jesus is. Jesus doesn’t need sustenance from us either.
If we want to follow the order of Melchisedec, let’s do so and give tithe once as recorded - to Jesus not to Pastors - if not, we are making it up to be anything we wish it to be.

The only tithe referred to as belonging to God were those commanded from the Israelites from agricultural produce. God did not say Abram’s tithe belonged to him - Abram chose to give it after Melchisedec blessed him, not as a pre-condition to be blessed either. Let everyone exercise their choice. The only ones without a choice were the Israelites who were commanded to tithe in Leviticus, which is what Malachi refers to. If you consider the Levitical command as applicable to you, then that is your prerogative.

Supporting ministers is fine by me as I’ve said elsewhere, and this can be does not have to be through tithes - it is up to the individual/congregation to decide and has nothing to do with whether tithes belong to God - the tithes belonging to God are clearly stated. It is not generic in any form.

What is stated is clear - Ministers should be supported from the gospel, how that works out in practice is up to the individuals involved.

Image123:

As usual, you come off s someone who does not read to understand but to quickly hit the reply button. The phrase in line is "as God hath".
Here is the passage again, goodnews i think.


1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be
raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the
churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in
proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will
be no need to collect money when I come.

i not only read to understand, but I also study to understand.

I have eight Bibles written over four centuries, spanning from the 1300's to 1755. Not one of them use the word "proportion" in 1 Corinthians 16:2. Notice:

The Wycliffe Bible (1395)
1 Corinthians 16:1
But of the gaderyngis of money that ben maad in to seyntis, as Y ordeynede in the chirchis of Galathie, so also do ye o dai of the wouke.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Ech of you kepe at hym silf, kepynge that that plesith to him, that whanne Y come, the gaderyngis ben not maad.


Tyndale Bible (1525)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Of the gadderynge for the saynctes as I have ordeyned in the congregacios of Galacia even so do ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Vpon some sondaye let every one of you put a syde at home and laye vp what soever he thinketh mete that ther be no gaderinges when I come.


Miles Coverdale Bible (1535)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concernynge the gadderynge that is made for the sayntes, as I haue ordeyned in the congregacions of Galacia, euen so do ye also.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Vpon some Sabbath daye let euery one of you put aside by him selfe, and laye vp what so euer he thinketh mete, that the colleccion be not to gather whan I come.


The Bishop's Bible (1568)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concerning the gatheryng for the saintes, as I haue ordeined in the Churches of Galacia, euen so do ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon some Sabboth daye, let euery one of you put asyde by hym selfe, and laye vp as God hath prospered hym, that then there be no gatherynges when I come.


The Geneva Bible (1587)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concerning the gathering for the Saintes, as I haue ordeined in the Churches of Galatia, so doe ye also.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Euery first day of the weeke, let euery one of you put aside by himselfe, and lay vp as God hath prospered him, that then there be no gatherings when I come.


King James Version (1611)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the Saints, as I haue giuen order to the Churches of Galatia, euen so doe ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the weeke, let euery one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Mace New Testament (1729)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Now as to the collection for the converts at Jerusalem, do as I have directed for the churches of Galatia.
1 Corinthians 16:2
every sabbath-day let every one of you set apart something of what he has happily gain'd, for the common treasury, that there may be no collection when I come.


Wesley's New Testament (1755)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concerning the collection for the saints, as I have ordered the churches of Galatia, so also do ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store according as he hath been prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

Image123:
By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming.

False information is false information and your tithe thesis constitutes a false information and i will call you out on it whenever i chose. Keep calling it spamming. I know you hate the idea that Oyaks penned that devotional. Its not my fault he did bro. Go teach him Abrahamic tithe so he can be up to speed.

If you think he lied, be bold enough to say it.

its better as you clarified yourself. When someone refers to another as "a much beloved and respected pastor.", the message being sent is that of personal respect and love. It would be odd for instance for me to refer to Guru maraji, T Joshua, or Bin Laden as much beloved and respected. These people also have lots of followers and apologists, but one may be sending a confusing signal. Anyway, good that you made yourself clearer.

You must be the only one who tripped over that statement. i'm surprised you actually think i have plenty affection for him. However it cost me nothing to clarify it.

I've noted your objection anyway and will always clarify this whenever i have cause to quote Oyaks again so as not to confuse you.

What is that thing you have being telling me for a long time again?

That tithing referenced by Malachi is strictly of the law

Does pastor Chris saying something make it truth?

Of course not. He has the capabilities to tell lies too. I'm happy you know this and are not carried away.

If yes, why are you being selective with this truth?

He spoke the truth about Tithe as being of the law. A truth you have stubbornly closed your eyes to.

According to you, pastor Chris says that tithing is compulsory, therefore that proves that tithing is compulsory.

Mosaic law said tithing is compulsory just like sabbath(Saturday) and circumcision. Malachi re-emphasized that tithing is compulsory and Oyaks rightfully agreed. However it's not for me because i am not a disciple of Mosaic law. If you say it's for you, then be honest about it and call it what it is. A LAW OF MOSES not some FRAUDULENT PRINCIPLE. Also be honest enough to practice it as stipulated in Num 18:21-32, Deut 14:22-29. If you refuse to, you're subtracting from the law.

pastor Chris says that you should bring your tithes, but that does not prove that you should bring your tithe.
Do you by chance see the inconsistency in your deductions?

You're the one that takes directions from Oyaks and other MOG, i don't. i'm only using his devotional to show you're not in tandem with his thought and his write up is consistent with biblical tithe you claim to follow.

TITHE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, its strictly of the law of Moses. I just clarified my stand incase you've not hear me say it before

How can anyone say that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham when the Bible clearly says that Abraham gave tithes?

Abraham gave tithes ONCE [/b]from spoils of war to physical Melchizedek. Is this the pattern you follow?

The tithe mentioned in Malachi has [b]NOTHING to do with Abraham. It's strictly Mosaic and Oyaks was right on that.

Oh, but you want us to follow a law when we give the tithe? When folks talk about principle and tithing, it seems this quoted portion of your thinking is dormant?

Tithing is a law and since you want to follow the law, then be honest enough to follow it the way God asked Moses to institute it.

Not sure i need all this preaching, thanks.

You're welcome. Just refrain from saying non tithers don't give. Its an untrue statement. That's what i tried to point out to you.

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist.

thank God for the bolded portion you did yourself, you can see it was STRICTLY for the POOR SAINTS. not some overfed pastor or Bishop. You can also see there is nothing called Tithe there? No matter how you twist it, proportion as used there means relative to what you earn. Not your Mosaic 10%. Like Zikkyy said above, it takes illiteracy to interpret proportion as strictly 10%

Are you okay with a poor widow in Winners Chapel for instance, that gives all her life's savings of about 28,000 into the offering box/bag?
she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

If its her decision to do so, why not? its hers giving to her by God and the administration of it is strictly her prerogative. As long as you don't cajole her or guilt her into doing so.

Though a pastor or Bishop that will collect such from a widow definitely has a problem with empathy and selflessness. The rulers of the Temple who collect such are Pharisees that is what Pharisees do and why Christ said they devour widows houses. Obviously MOG who do so today are no better than the greedy and covetous pharisees.

Infact the 3 times this widow's episode is mentioned in the bible, Christ had just finished berating the Pharisees and scribes for their wickedness in devouring the living of widows before he saw her bring the contribution. So don't think it was a kind reflection on so called religious leaders. infact it was an indictment on callous people.

BTW, why do you find it so wrong for a christian to give or do anything to fulfill all righteousness? You said "That is what pharisees do". This is surprising as the Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that.
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel.

Christ spoke that in respect of his baptism by John. It was specific. Must you force it into monetary considerations? If i am to follow your logic, everything we do in Christendom must be just to fulfill all righteousness abi? after all we'll be in perfect harmony with Christ? pls learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

Candour, people are actually reading what you say, and so is God. You cannot just afford to say things just to shine or get likes or win arguments. If you have nothing edifying or true or honest to say, it is better to keep quiet or ignore us or pray for us. than to come showboat before people with itching ears.

If you wish to get likes for your post, start a campaign. i too would start clicking like for you. Likes on my post wont make me more righteous with God or cater for my needs so it's not a consideration. You're the one trying to win arguments and from your own lips, i learnt you've been at it for over 4 years. Tithe is of the law. be bold enough to accept this truth. all the MOG you respect and love admit to this truth. If you dont agree with them, be bold enough to say so.

Not sure i need all this preaching, i have no idea what you are trying to say. What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? Who here has rated God, or rated his righteous causes?

You're the one rating love for God at 10% or what did you mean by saying i find it difficult to give to God because i don't subscribe to your 10% threshold. yeah there, i said it again.

This is back to square one. tithing is not the law of Moses. It was practiced before Moses' father was born.

As was Sabbath, circumcision and animal sacrifices which you mercifully don't subscribe to today.

i do not understand. Are you saying that if i make a vow freely, i cannot drop it into the collection bag? Read this again for context.
Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth.

stop trying to be smart. See the bolded portion. is your vow the same thing you drop into the bag every sunday? A vow is different from what you put into the bag every sunday. don't come here and pretend not to know there is a difference between a VOW and your sunday collections. This shouldn't be too difficult to be honest about na or is it?

I had to repost this bit for Malachi 3 lovers

debosky:
...but again, in Malachi, it is not Abram’s, neither is it yours - it is the specific tithe commanded from the land from Israelites as belonging to God. It cannot be extricated from that context and converted to mean whatever you want it to mean.

Even Jerome's Latin Vulgate, written in 405 A.D., SAYS NOTHING OF PROPORTION.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Per unam sabbati unusquisque vestrum apud se seponat, recondens quod ei bene placuerit: ut non, cum venero, tunc collectæ fiant.

TRANSLATION:
1 Corinthians 16:2 Through the week let every one of you, with themselves, set aside, up what it shall well please him: that I should not, when I come, the collections be made at that time.

This bit is also useful for learning (strictly for Malachi 3 lovers)....

The post....

Image123:
The book of Malachi and every other book refers to all. i will have to quote it again so that you see it.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living,
2Ti 3:17 so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed. -GoodNews.

The response........

debosky:
Useful for teaching is not the same as saying Israelites were commanded to do x therefore Christians have to do x as well; unless you understand this elementary distinction, it is a waste of time.

Bidam: Don't mind the HYPOCRITE imagine him quoting OT scripture
and this To support his fraudulent 1000 naira ponzi scheme. Yet he had the effontery to judge pastor chris.

This guy don start milking im sheep,no be today.Now tell me what will happen if he had the opportunity of pastoring a thousand members.

Na yachts and carribean islands he go dey cruise for im holidays, no be jets e go buy o.

Bidam: Don't mind the HYPOCRITE imagine him quoting OT scripture
and this To support his fraudulent 1000 naira ponzi scheme. Yet he had the effontery to judge pastor chris.

This guy don start milking im sheep,no be today.Now tell me what will happen if he had the opportunity of pastoring a thousand members.

Na yachts and carribean islands he go dey cruise for im holidays, no be jets e go buy o.

i will prefer jet bormbers n aparche heli o, u know na, i get many fraudsters hideouts to destroy, nice to see u laughing again, d tin don subside? Thank God.

debosky:
Melchisedec did not require tithe to sustain himself - instead, he sustained Abram by refreshing him. Melchisedec did not need sustenance from Abram - let that sink in for a moment. Pastors are not those in the order of Melchisedec - Jesus is. Jesus doesn’t need sustenance from us either.

debosky:
The only tithe referred to as belonging to God were those commanded from the Israelites from agricultural produce. God did not say Abram’s tithe belonged to him - Abram chose to give it after Melchisedec blessed him, not as a pre-condition to be blessed either.

Thank you my brother.

debosky:
...... - let that sink in for a moment.

Image123 please take this brotherly advice; let the teachings you received today sink in o!

Bring ye all THE tithes - not any tithe -THE tithes - specific tithes. Not those tithes to be eaten by the owners, nor those to be shared with the poor, but THE tithes.

How do I know which tithes are referred to in Malachi? I go to Leviticus. I don't - as Image123 alludes - just say it means any 10% belonging to God. To those whom Malachi was written to, the understanding is not any 10% of anything just 'offered to God' - it is a specific commandment described in Leviticus. God leaves them in no doubt about which 10% belongs to him that they are robbing him of. Earlier in the same passage, God talked about people failing to obey ordinances - the ordinances for tithes in this case came from Leviticus.

Yes all scripture (including Malachi and Leviticus) is useful for teaching and reproof, etc., and yes - I can decide I want to give 10% by inspiration from Malachi. However, this is a personal decision and must be presented as such. It is not mandatory/compulsory/required of a Christian.

We can teach and learn from Malachi (for example) that if God gives you an instruction you should obey it. However, we must also understand that some commandments/instructions are specific to the Israelites under the law and do not apply to Christians today. That is just one way to teach/learn from Malachi in context.

Zikkyy:

It's not in any of the category and it's not for him to approve or dis-approve.

Abraham's tithe is categoriless, interesting. So, why do you have to put mine or any other under a category? Our friend said there are three types of tithe and that we have not been taught, whoever we means.

are you saying firstborn from any tribe served in the temple/tabernacle please clarify.

yes, the firstborns from all tribes were initially chosen to serve in the tabernacle. it was after that God chose Levi after a particular "Who is on the Lord's side" incidence.

what's this talk bout supporting priests that are of the order of the Melchizedek. You are saying the purpose of the tithe is to support people (of the order of Melchizedek) that serve in the temple/tabernacle image123, this your desperate attempt to justify a pastoral fraud is making you speak in greed inspired tongues o!

The tithe is given to support temple workers, so that they do not have to go out and work like other people, but that they be allowed to serve God whole heartedly. At the time of Moses, the temple workers were from the tribe of Levi. Today, God has temple workers from different tribes.

It's not just because they are people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. Levites don't serve in the temple at the same time. They get the tithe first for belonging to the tribe of Levi.

They get the tithe for serving in the temple, amongst other reasons.
Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Zikkyy:

every use of earnings is a proportion of something. if you go shopping at shoprite, you will be spending a proportion of your income. the poster was not saying Christians are not required to give a proportion of their income. read the post again (below)....

"Christians are not required to give a set percentage of our income regardless of how it is required" i.e. Christians are not required to give a 'fixed' % of their income. The issue has to do with pastors specifying the % to give, Paul did not.

It is obvious. Read the coloured again. He said "Christians are not required to give a set percentage of our income regardless of how it is required". According to you, you said "Agreed. proportion is ratio, percentage". There is no need for you to help him twist what he said. It is so straight forward, regardless of how it is required.

1Co 16:2 is not saying they should put aside a defined or fixed % of their earnings. when Paul said in proportion to what you have earned, he is saying as you have been blessed or prospered. for those that have little put a little something aside, and for those that have more (or earned more) save a little more. he expected the rich to give more than the poor, but that does not translate to everybody giving a fixed 10% or 20%. It cannot be used to justify tithing.

as you have been blessed or prospered IS a percentage or proportion of your earning. mark said Christians are not required to give a set percentage. i simply showed where some christians were told that they MUST give a set proportion. It means those who had little did not give the same thing as those who had much. They were told in this case to give in proportion to their prosperity.

Zikkyy:

Agreed. proportion is ratio, percentage but you have to be an illiterate to say proportion means 10%

If you were not hasty to jump into the discussion, you may have noticed that i never said that proportion means 10%. Nobody said that, i wonder why you introduced such fallacy. Mark said christians don't give proportion. Even quoted many versions to hide from this simple fact. i showed that there is nothing wrong or unbiblical about giving in proportion. Like you tried to prove, it is common sense to give in proportion. No one should be stopped or hassled from giving in proportion whatever the proportion, be it 10% or whatever.

Image123:

If you were not hasty to jump into the discussion, you may have noticed that i never said that proportion means 10%. Nobody said that, i wonder why you introduced such fallacy. Mark said christians don't give proportion. Even quoted many versions to hide from this simple fact. i showed that there is nothing wrong or unbiblical about giving in proportion. Like you tried to prove, it is common sense to give in proportion. No one should be stopped or hassled from giving in proportion whatever the proportion, be it 10% or whatever.

Why do you lie agaisnt me as you do?

I did not say "Christians do not pay proportion." What I said was the all of the versions I have prior to the 19th Century say nothing of propoortion in 1 Corinthians 16:2. They show prosperity. The Greek word for the word "proportion" is not found in that verse in any of the earlier translations, and the Greek word that is used simply means "helped along the road."

Reading the verse with the phrase "helped along the road" reveals that God is not speaking of a set proportion or percentage. Rather, He simply instructs the saints at Corinth to help those poor Saints in Jersualem as He had previously helped them.

God expects us to freely give as we ourselves have freely given. That is the doctrine we should derive from 1 Corinthians 16:2; not percentage.

debosky:

Again, I have never stated I do not believe Malachi 3v8-10 so how have you arrived at this conclusion? Malachi 3v8-10 is the word of God and truth - if my views were never clear, I hope they are now.

It was never a conclusion. i asked Do you believe Malachi 3v8-10? You quoted it, how come you did not read it?

If by ‘believing’ Malachi, you are asking whether I consider this as mandatory for Christians, then that is a separate matter.

Here is the verse that you say that you believe.
Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

God said that He does not change in the same chapter. Here is what i mean by believing Malachi. Do you believe that a man can rob God? Do you believe that a man can rob God in tithes and offerings? Do you believe that a whole nation can rob God if they do not bring tithes and offering?

The latter phrase is correct, however specific passages refer to specific offerings and tithes. They do not stand in isolation, nor are they generic. Tithing in Malachi is a direct reference to previous instructions in Leviticus, so are the offerings, so is the reference to the storehouse. It is not a catch all, neither is it a ‘convert it to what you want it’ passage - it is specific.

The point is that THEY ARE ALL OFFERINGS TO GOD. God accepts them, it is not for man to condemn what God accepts. The Bible NEVER talks about tithes being different. It talks of tithe as tithe, simply 10%. Abraham's tithe is a tenth. Malachi's is a tenth, Jesus's is a tenth, Number and co are tenth, mine is a tenth. This is what the tithe is. One cannot come tell us that it is numbers tithe that is real, the others are not. Malachi or any Bible verse does not tell us that tithe is ONLY from one thing. It is only on this forum that i continue to hear that.
there are so many Bible passages that seem to be a 'direct' reference to something, but the Holy Ghost uses it to mean and prove and teach something else. This is so common in the new testament Bible. A christian should not be fixated on the letter but on the Spirit.

Correct, but again, in Malachi, it is not Abram’s, neither is it yours - it is the specific tithe commanded from the land from Israelites as belonging to God. It cannot be extricated from that context and converted to mean whatever you want it to mean.

There is no such context. You can imply that but that is a very personal opinion. The passage says to bring ALL the tithe. Why would you say it is not mine or Abraham's. So far the tithe is for the same purpose, for taking care of the ministers and their ministry.

The latter is your opinion which you are free to hold. However, there is a distinction between personal opinion and doctrine/requirements for Christians.

i believe that God has given me all things, and i give the tithe specifically to His ministers. Abraham believed same. He knew God had given him the victory and he gave the tithe to the priest of God, Melchisedec. The Israelites were also taought the same thing.

Useful for teaching is not the same as saying Israelites were commanded to do x therefore Christians have to do x as well; unless you understand this elementary distinction, it is a waste of time.

Did i say that christians have to do x? Do you decide to throw away every discussion and explanation we ever had/made, just to make this point?
The book of Malachi remains apt for teaching the truth, and giving instruction for right living, so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed.

We are not discussing the book of Malachi in total, we are discussing a specific passage - I hope you realise that. I also hope you are able to understand that a passage can have specific elements with general application while having others with limited or specific application. Can you can identify where Jesus taught those not under the law to tithe based on Malachi 3v8-10? If you can, please show me.

What are you implying? That some part of malachi is for all of us and some part is not for us? i think you said Malachi is just for the nation of Israel. That is why i brought out passages from malachi showing they were not just messages for Israel.
Please tell me where you think Jesus started addressing or teaching those not under the law so that i can show you, thanks.

Again, I am not against taking teaching from the book of Malachi, what I am stating is that a specific instruction in Malachi (based on Leviticus’ instruction) is not compulsory or a requirement, except for those the latter instruction applied to. If an individual chooses to use that teaching as an example, then it is a personal decision - I have no issues with that.

i did not say that anything is compulsory, did i? Actually, i believe there is nothing compulsory in this age of grace. Not prayr, not giving, not going to church, nothing. Yet, all things are compulsory in a sense that is.

The apostles as recorded never taught anyone to tithe - whether based on Malachi or any other passage for that matter, so there is no hiding under how the apostles ‘considered scripture’.

They did not teach anyone not to tithe. Instead they encouraged obedience to the Old Testament Bible. Read James, Peter, John and Paul.

Melchisedec did not require tithe to sustain himself - instead, he sustained Abram by refreshing him. Melchisedec did not need sustenance from Abram - let that sink in for a moment. Pastors are not those in the order of Melchisedec - Jesus is. Jesus doesn’t need sustenance from us either.
If we want to follow the order of Melchisedec, let’s do so and give tithe once as recorded - to Jesus not to Pastors - if not, we are making it up to be anything we wish it to be.

Melchisedec and Abraham gave one another. You cannot claim that one sustained the other, and that the other did not sustain one. What Abraham gave was greater in size than what Melchisedec gave BTW. i did not say any of them needed or did not need sustenance, so i do not understand your statement about sinking. i said the tithe is used for sustenance. Today, most antitithers would agree that Bishop Oyedepo for instance does not need to be SUSTAINED by my giving a tithe. however, the basic purpose of the tithe and offering is to help sustain the ministers and priests. Priests receive offerings and gifts. Even pagans have that commonsense. Whether the priest or minister is rich or poor is irrelevant. People give them gifts, offerings, tithes, like Naaman wanted to do to Elisha, or like the Shunammite did to Elisha the minister. This is the way people relate with ministers for ages and world all over whether christian or pagan. they bring them offerings and gifts for their upkeep.

The only tithe referred to as belonging to God were those commanded from the Israelites from agricultural produce. God did not say Abram’s tithe belonged to him - Abram chose to give it after Melchisedec blessed him, not as a pre-condition to be blessed either. Let everyone exercise their choice. The only ones without a choice were the Israelites who were commanded to tithe in Leviticus, which is what Malachi refers to. If you consider the Levitical command as applicable to you, then that is your prerogative.

Abraham's tithe belong to God, mine also. Infact, the whole earth belong to God. i made comments and explanations on that Leviticus passage last month, antitihers avoided it like a plague. i'm not that skilled in looking for past posts, i'll see if i can find it though.

Supporting ministers is fine by me as I’ve said elsewhere, and this can be does not have to be through tithes - it is up to the individual/congregation to decide and has nothing to do with whether tithes belong to God - the tithes belonging to God are clearly stated. It is not generic in any form.

You want me to remember what you've said elsewhere, but you are behaving oblivious to what i have said elsewhere on tithing. Why?
i believe that i belong to God including ALL that i have, my tithes belong to God.

What is stated is clear - Ministers should be supported from the gospel, how that works out in practice is up to the individuals involved.

What gospel, how?

Mark Miwerds: i not only read to understand, but I also study to understand.

I have eight Bibles written over four centuries, spanning from the 1300's to 1755. Not one of them use the word "proportion" in 1 Corinthians 16:2. Notice:

The Wycliffe Bible (1395)
1 Corinthians 16:1
But of the gaderyngis of money that ben maad in to seyntis, as Y ordeynede in the chirchis of Galathie, so also do ye o dai of the wouke.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Ech of you kepe at hym silf, kepynge that that plesith to him, that whanne Y come, the gaderyngis ben not maad.


Tyndale Bible (1525)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Of the gadderynge for the saynctes as I have ordeyned in the congregacios of Galacia even so do ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Vpon some sondaye let every one of you put a syde at home and laye vp what soever he thinketh mete that ther be no gaderinges when I come.


Miles Coverdale Bible (1535)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concernynge the gadderynge that is made for the sayntes, as I haue ordeyned in the congregacions of Galacia, euen so do ye also.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Vpon some Sabbath daye let euery one of you put aside by him selfe, and laye vp what so euer he thinketh mete, that the colleccion be not to gather whan I come.


The Bishop's Bible (1568)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concerning the gatheryng for the saintes, as I haue ordeined in the Churches of Galacia, euen so do ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon some Sabboth daye, let euery one of you put asyde by hym selfe, and laye vp as God hath prospered hym, that then there be no gatherynges when I come.


The Geneva Bible (1587)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concerning the gathering for the Saintes, as I haue ordeined in the Churches of Galatia, so doe ye also.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Euery first day of the weeke, let euery one of you put aside by himselfe, and lay vp as God hath prospered him, that then there be no gatherings when I come.


King James Version (1611)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Now concerning the collection for the Saints, as I haue giuen order to the Churches of Galatia, euen so doe ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the weeke, let euery one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Mace New Testament (1729)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Now as to the collection for the converts at Jerusalem, do as I have directed for the churches of Galatia.
1 Corinthians 16:2
every sabbath-day let every one of you set apart something of what he has happily gain'd, for the common treasury, that there may be no collection when I come.


Wesley's New Testament (1755)
1 Corinthians 16:1
Concerning the collection for the saints, as I have ordered the churches of Galatia, so also do ye.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store according as he hath been prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

Feel free to add this to your impressive collection.
GoodNews
1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.

International Standard Version
1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, you should follow the directions I gave to the churches in Galatia.
1Co 16:2 On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside and save some of your money[b] in proportion to[/b] what you have, so that no collections will have to be made when I come.

It was so clear from my KJV before i saw these other ones. as God hath is a simple ratio. This is basic math.

Image123:

Feel free to add this to your impressive collection.
GoodNews
1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.

International Standard Version
1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, you should follow the directions I gave to the churches in Galatia.
1Co 16:2 On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside and save some of your money[b] in proportion to[/b] what you have, so that no collections will have to be made when I come.

It was so clear from my KJV before i saw these other ones. as God hath is a simple ratio. This is basic math.

no thanks. They don't fall into the category of "prior to the nineteenth century." They would stand out as not belonging to the group.

The KJV nowhere states proportion, nor does it imply proportion.

Candour:

False information is false information and your tithe thesis constitutes a false information and i will call you out on it whenever i chose. Keep calling it spamming. I know you hate the idea that Oyaks penned that devotional. Its not my fault he did bro. Go teach him Abrahamic tithe so he can be up to speed.

If you think he lied, be bold enough to say it.

By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming.

You must be the only one who tripped over that statement. i'm surprised you actually think i have plenty affection for him. However it cost me nothing to clarify it.

I've noted your objection anyway and will always clarify this whenever i have cause to quote Oyaks again so as not to confuse you.

Thank you. Others may also be confused in future but thanks for clarifying. i saw the improvement on the other thread too, you are very kind.

That tithing referenced by Malachi is strictly of the law

Oh, that? Malachi mentions ALL the tithe. You should not bamboozle us to think Malachi limits it. Bring ye ALL the tithe, not "Bring ye strictly the tithe according to the law only"

Of course not. He has the capabilities to tell lies too. I'm happy you know this and are not carried away.

Do you have no capabilities to tell lies?

He spoke the truth about Tithe as being of the law. A truth you have stubbornly closed your eyes to.

He said this? i must have missed it.

Mosaic law said tithing is compulsory just like sabbath(Saturday) and circumcision. Malachi re-emphasized that tithing is compulsory and Oyaks rightfully agreed. However it's not for me because i am not a disciple of Mosaic law. If you say it's for you, then be honest about it and call it what it is. A LAW OF MOSES not some FRAUDULENT PRINCIPLE. Also be honest enough to practice it as stipulated in Num 18:21-32, Deut 14:22-29. If you refuse to, you're subtracting from the law.

Are you advicing me or commanding me? Sorry, i lost the context.

You're the one that takes directions from Oyaks and other MOG, i don't. i'm only using his devotional to show you're not in tandem with his thought and his write up is consistent with biblical tithe you claim to follow.

TITHE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, its strictly of the law of Moses. I just clarified my stand incase you've not hear me say it before

Oh, so you saw the inconsistency in your deductions? BTW, it is not unchristian to take directions from men of God. See this for instance.
1Co 16:1 As to the collection for God's people, what I have directed the Churches of Galatia to do, you must do also.
Weymouth New testament.
Churches of Galatia and Corinth took directions from a man of God.
Tithe cannot be strictly of the law of Moses if people gave tithe before Moses' father was born. How do you continually manage not to see this plain truth?

Abraham gave tithes ONCE [/b]from spoils of war to physical Melchizedek. Is this the pattern you follow?

The tithe mentioned in Malachi has [b]NOTHING to do with Abraham. It's strictly Mosaic and Oyaks was right on that.

Thought you said that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham? Now, it is that it is once that tithe had something to do with Abraham? Its hazy, sorry.

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Abraham gave tithes of all, malachi says Bring all the tithe. You cannot shout that away.

Tithing is a law and since you want to follow the law, then be honest enough to follow it the way God asked Moses to institute it.

did Abraham follow a law when he tithed? Did jacob follow a law? Why must it be my own that you insist that i must follow a law?

You're welcome. Just refrain from saying non tithers don't give. Its an untrue statement. That's what i tried to point out to you.

i didn't say that non tithers/antitithers do not give. i said that you(Candour) do not encourage poor people giving ALL their savings to church, like the poor widow did in Mark 12v44.

thank God for the bolded portion you did yourself, you can see it was STRICTLY for the POOR SAINTS. not some overfed pastor or Bishop. You can also see there is nothing called Tithe there? No matter how you twist it, proportion as used there means relative to what you earn. Not your Mosaic 10%. Like Zikkyy said above, it takes illiteracy to interpret proportion as strictly 10%

My context was very clear. i showed you where a man of God mandated people to give. he said they MUST. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. you must put aside some money, You'd probably have a fit if you heard this live.

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist.

If its her decision to do so, why not? its hers giving to her by God and the administration of it is strictly her prerogative. As long as you don't cajole her or guilt her into doing so.

Though a pastor or Bishop that will collect such from a widow definitely has a problem with empathy and selflessness. The rulers of the Temple who collect such are Pharisees that is what Pharisees do and why Christ said they devour widows houses. Obviously MOG who do so today are no better than the greedy and covetous pharisees.

Infact the 3 times this widow's episode is mentioned in the bible, Christ had just finished berating the Pharisees and scribes for their wickedness in devouring the living of widows before he saw her bring the contribution. So don't think it was a kind reflection on so called religious leaders. infact it was an indictment on callous people.

It is the offerings of God. It belongs to God, not to pharisees. And God collected it from a widow. he had no problem with empathy and selflessness. In fact, He commended the act.

Christ spoke that in respect of his baptism by John. It was specific. Must you force it into monetary considerations? If i am to follow your logic, everything we do in Christendom must be just to fulfill all righteousness abi? after all we'll be in perfect harmony with Christ? pls learn to rightly divide the word of truth.

The Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that. i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel. There is NOTHING wrong in fulfilling all righteousness. Do not trifle it as "just". Fulfilling all righteousness is NOT what pharisees do, it is what Jesus did. And we ought to walk even as He walked.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
It's sobering that you do not see this.

If you wish to get likes for your post, start a campaign. i too would start clicking like for you. Likes on my post wont make me more righteous with God or cater for my needs so it's not a consideration. You're the one trying to win arguments and from your own lips, i learnt you've been at it for over 4 years. Tithe is of the law. be bold enough to accept this truth. all the MOG you respect and love admit to this truth. If you dont agree with them, be bold enough to say so.

You learnt from my own lips that i've been trying to win arguments for over four years?

You're the one rating love for God at 10% or what did you mean by saying i find it difficult to give to God because i don't subscribe to your 10% threshold. yeah there, i said it again.

What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? i did not say that you find it difficult to give to God. i said that if what the widow did(giving ALL her living 100%) is a type of what you do in church, you would not be so bitter about giving 10% in church. It makes no sense to care less about giving 100% and be so tight about giving the tithe.
This is not rating God, this is not rating love for God.

As was Sabbath, circumcision and animal sacrifices which you mercifully don't subscribe to today.

There is nothing wrong with them too.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

stop trying to be smart. See the bolded portion. is your vow the same thing you drop into the bag every sunday? A vow is different from what you put into the bag every sunday. don't come here and pretend not to know there is a difference between a VOW and your sunday collections. This shouldn't be too difficult to be honest about na or is it?

i still do not get you. What if i have a vow to drop into the bag every sunday? What is wrong with that? Why should a vow be different from what one puts into the bag every sunday? Is it so difficult to make a vow to put something into the bag every sunday?
Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth
Freewill giving is itself a command in the law of Moses, but we do it still today. God loves us when we give freewill.

Image123:
By "Don't post false information on Nairaland.", the context is so clear you do not have to twist it to mean that divergent views are false information. Be matured in understanding, that is a new testament command i think. The rule means like do not post that the president has resigned, or that somebody died who is alive, or that a company is recruiting if it is not, for instance. By your twist, i can also claim that you are posting false information since your view on giving does not align with mine. Every one with a different view on the forum would say that the opposing view is false information. That is mischievous and childish. it is clear you are spamming the forum and should correct yourself. posting the same content many times is regarded as spamming.

Your tithe thesis is a pack of lies and rightly described as such. I'll keep bringing Oyaks devotional to your remembrance whenever i suspect you're forgetting what Tithe really is.

Thank you. Others may also be confused in future but thanks for clarifying. i saw the improvement on the other thread too, you are very kind.

I'm Happy for you

Oh, that? Malachi mentions ALL the tithe. You should not bamboozle us to think Malachi limits it. Bring ye ALL the tithe, not "Bring ye strictly the tithe according to the law only"

Malachi said all 'THE' tithe which indicates a definite article. the writer was referring to a specific thing well known to his audience. So what is 'THE' Tithe Malachi was referring to? Spoils of war? Farm produce? Proceeds of corruption? What is 'THE' tithe he was referring to?

If you need help from a dictionary to define 'THE', i could oblige you

Do you have no capabilities to tell lies?

wait until i do. Then you can point it out

He said this? i must have missed it.

As you always conveniently miss the truth even when its staring you in the face

Are you advicing me or commanding me? Sorry, i lost the context.

very convenient again. Pls Keep on loosing it

Oh, so you saw the inconsistency in your deductions? BTW, it is not unchristian to take directions from men of God. See this for instance.
1Co 16:1 As to the collection for God's people, what I have directed the Churches of Galatia to do, you must do also.
Weymouth New testament.
Churches of Galatia and Corinth took directions from a man of God.
Tithe cannot be strictly of the law of Moses if people gave tithe before Moses' father was born. How do you continually manage not to see this plain truth?

So what did your man Of God command you to do bro? submit 10% so he can help you be at peace with God? We're talking of Scriptures penned by the apostle to the Gentiles and you are trying to compare him to your thieving pastors of today?

Whenever your pastor's words appear in scripture, bring his commands to me so i can obey them

Keep pretending not to know there is a difference between what Abraham paid as tithe and the charade you do today. Abraham gave to Melchizedek, whom do you give yours to today? Go ahead and make fun of yourself by saying pastors in the order of Melchizedek. I've read that somewhere before.

Thought you said that tithe has nothing to do with Abraham? Now, it is that it is once that tithe had something to do with Abraham? Its hazy, sorry.

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
Abraham gave tithes of all, malachi says Bring all the tithe. You cannot shout that away.

Abraham gave tithes of ALL spoils of war, non from his farm. Malachi asked for God's holy tithe of all Land produce as prescribed in Lev 27. Tell me you still don't know there is a difference?

did Abraham follow a law when he tithed? Did jacob follow a law? Why must it be my own that you insist that i must follow a law?

Good. So you Agree Abraham had liberty to do or not to do? You also agree Jacob's was a voluntary vow he made himself to do abi and no evidence that he even did?

Pls IMAGE123, Go ahead and do with your funds as you like. I heard Rockefeller or one other rich man even gave 90%. Pls you can even copy his style or do as you deem fit. Its your prerogative but don't come to NL and preach it as Christian doctrine. Also tell your friends on NL this truth so we can stop these arguments

That is what everybody has been telling you for the past 4 years

i didn't say that non tithers/antitithers do not give. i said that you(Candour) do not encourage poor people giving ALL their savings to church, like the poor widow did in Mark 12v44.

Good you clarified the bolded. Really i don't encourage poor people to give all their savings like the poor widow. If they insist, it's theirs so i wont stop them. i'll commend their sense of sacrifice but i wont encourage them to do it.

Only a wicked person will encourage such a disadvantaged person to put into a treasury administered by religious thieves and rogues like the rulers of the Jerusalem temple.

My context was very clear. i showed you where a man of God mandated people to give. he said they MUST. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do. you must put aside some money, You'd probably have a fit if you heard this live.

I wont have a fit my dear. I'll give all i have because it's for a very noble cause. To feed hungry and destitute saints at Jerusalem. Only a wicked man will refuse to give to such a cause when he obviously can give. Also because the apostle who mouthed that is a VERY CREDIBLE WITNESS of the gospel, i wont even question it. He's very much different from the charlatans you run after today.

1Co 16:1 Now, concerning what you wrote about the money to be raised to help God's people in Judea. You must do what I told the churches in Galatia to do.
1Co 16:2 Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.
Preach the whole truth please. Any literate understands this without twist.

How does proportion in that verse become tithe? i really need you tell me how proportion became 10%

It is the offerings of God. It belongs to God, not to pharisees. And God collected it from a widow. he had no problem with empathy and selflessness. In fact, He commended the act.

That is the lie crooks in the pulpit tell people to get their money and use it for grandiose and immoral living.

God didn't collect it from her, the temple rulers did. That she cast it into temple treasury doesn't mean God collected it. God isn't cruel. He doesn't collect the little the poor has, rather he feeds the poor but thieves will devour the entire living of widows.

Jesus didn't collect from the multitude, he fed them instead. It's those that had means that sustained Jesus, NOT THE POOR

The Bible only talks of Christ Jesus doing that. i think that is the only place that phrase "fulfill all righteousness" is used. It is used of Christ and His. So when you say that is what pharisees do, it causes one to marvel. There is NOTHING wrong in fulfilling all righteousness. Do not trifle it as "just". Fulfilling all righteousness is NOT what pharisees do, it is what Jesus did. And we ought to walk even as He walked.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
It's sobering that you do not see this.

He said it once at baptism to encourage John not to feel unworthy to baptize him, not to make 'fulfilling all righteousness' our christian manual. I expected you to see this

It's the pharisees that run their religious lives just to fulfill all righteousness. I'm a Christian. I'm spirit led. I don't do things just to fulfill all righteousness. If you do, good luck with that

You learnt from my own lips that i've been trying to win arguments for over four years?

You said you've been at this discussions for over 4 years despite all the truth you've been shown. What else would that be other than trying to win an argument?

What is the 10% threshold, is that some new theological phrase. Why bring up a condition that was never there? i did not say that you find it difficult to give to God. i said that if what the widow did(giving ALL her living 100%) is a type of what you do in church, you would not be so bitter about giving 10% in church. It makes no sense to care less about giving 100% and be so tight about giving the tithe.
This is not rating God, this is not rating love for God.

Tell me what Tithe as you preach it and as Oyaks wrote is if not a CONDITION and OBLIGATION? If you truly believe we are not bound by any particular percentage, then what is this discussion for?

A Christian can give 100% to a worthy cause if the spirit leads him to. He shouldn't give a dime in response to a so called law preached by a crook in suit. If he does, he's serving men not God.

There is nothing wrong with them too.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

So pls preach your tithe as you would sabbath, burnt offerings or circumcision today. Abraham did at least three of them and God even observed sabbath himself.

i still do not get you. What if i have a vow to drop into the bag every sunday? What is wrong with that? Why should a vow be different from what one puts into the bag every sunday? Is it so difficult to make a vow to put something into the bag every sunday?
Deu 23:23 That which is gone out of thy lips thou shalt keep and perform; even a freewill offering, according as thou hast vowed unto the LORD thy God, which thou hast promised with thy mouth
Freewill giving is itself a command in the law of Moses, but we do it still today. God loves us when we give freewill.

If you make a vow concerning what you give every sunday, its your choice. Other Christians don't make a vow for their givings every sunday, let them be.

You brought in that verse to confuse the issue. It has no relevance to what we are discussing here.

@debo, the post that i said that i made comment on Leviticus 27.
https://www.nairaland.com/1189741/tithes-offerings/89#18872274

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It is obvious. Read the coloured again. He said "Christians are not required to give a set percentage of our income regardless of how it is required". According to you, you said "Agreed. proportion is ratio, percentage". There is no need for you to help him twist what he said. It is so straight forward, regardless of how it is required.

You will only end up embarrassing yourself if you continue down this route. I already showed what he meant by set percentage. It has nothing to do with me agreeing that proportion is ratio.

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as you have been blessed or prospered IS a percentage or proportion of your earning. mark said Christians are not required to give a set percentage. i simply showed where some christians were told that they MUST give a set proportion. It means those who had little did not give the same thing as those who had much. They were told in this case to give in proportion to their prosperity.

Paul did not determine the % of giving. he allowed each person to determine their %. as you have been blessed (giving in proportion to your prosperity) is not a fixed 10%, or 20% or 30% or 90%. Some may have given 20% or even 3% and some may have given 0.2%.

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Abraham's tithe is categoriless, interesting. So, why do you have to put mine or any other under a category?

The man listed three type of tithes and you asked which of the category Abrams tithe belonged. My view was that Abraham's tithe is not in any of the three. Abraham's tithe is Abraham tithe, simple. Nobody saying your tithe falls into any of the three category mandated by God, in fact it is tithers that been trying to prove their tithe belong to category 1 as defined by Omo-Awori. Any literate reading tithe discussions on NL should know this. You know very well i have been saying that there is God's tithe and there are tithes. i never considered your tithing God's tithe so don't worry your tithing does not fall into any category mandated by God and it does not even belong to a tithe category found in scriptures. Yours is a creation of man, for the use and benefit of man.

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yes, the firstborns from all tribes were initially chosen to serve in the tabernacle. it was after that God chose Levi after a particular "Who is on the Lord's side" incidence.

It's possible you did not read your own post, so let me report below....

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The purpose of the tithe is to support the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle. At a point, they were simply firstborns from any tribe, at another point, they were from Levi tribe, at another point, they are of the order of Melchisedec.
So, the true purpose is, why Levi? Because they are the people that serve in the temple/tabernacle.

You told us the purpose of tithe was to support the people that serve in the temple and you said at a point it was the firstborn that were serving in the temple/tabernacle. my need for clarification: did the firstborn served in the tabernacle and was tithe used to support them. Please clarify.

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The tithe is given to support temple workers, so that they do not have to go out and work like other people, but that they be allowed to serve God whole heartedly. At the time of Moses, the temple workers were from the tribe of Levi. Today, God has temple workers from different tribes.

You have not shown how the purpose of the tithe was to support people serving in the temple/tabernacle (or temple workers).

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They get the tithe for serving in the temple, amongst other reasons.
Num 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

They get the tithe first for belonging to the tribe of Levi. Read your quote above..."And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel".....every Levite don't serve at the temple at the same time. They got the tithe even when they were not serving in the temple. Serving in the temple was not a prerequisite for receiving the tithe, being a Levite was. and the tithe was an inheritance, not just a form of support. Did God reverse his will concerning the tithe? if he did not it is very wrong of you to give God's tithe to anybody other than the Levite.

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If you were not hasty to jump into the discussion, you may have noticed that i never said that proportion means 10%. Nobody said that,

This i will archive. It will come useful when you attempt to use that particular verse to prove 10% in future