Oh a whole lot of other like minds are in here. Salute to you all

striktlymi:

Are sperm cells thesame as zygotes?

No, but they are cells.

POPE II: Abortion is wrong and will always b wrong regardless the context .now it can b tolerated if it proved beyond any doubts that the life of the mother is @ risk .
Abortion is a sin .

Happy Sunday everyone

That's it, you don't want to know anything concerning abortion it's just wrong because you are a Christian. If the Bible stated abortion you would be defending it right now
And I don't know anywhere it ever condemned abortion

PAGAN 9JA:


Are zygotes the same as humans?

YES!!!

PAGAN 9JA:


Am I zygote or am I a MAN?

Your logic is quite flawed...

Your argument again:

Striktlymi is human...

Striktlymi is a man...

Striktlymi is not a toddler...

Hence, toddlers are not humans...

striktlymi:

YES!!!

Then sperms are the same as zygotes.

PAGAN 9JA:


technically they are living and according to the striktlymi school of thought, the destruction of blood cells is tantamount to MURDER.

That is NOT my argument!!!

OlaoChi:

That's it, you don't want to know anything concerning abortion it's just wrong because you are a Christian. If the Bible stated abortion you would be defending it right now
And I don't know anywhere it ever condemned abortion

Like I said earlier I can tolerate abortion in a specific situation but it will still b wrong and a sin , no matter what . I'm not Solis bibla

striktlymi:


Your logic is quite flawed...

Your argument again:

Striktlymi is human...

Striktlymi is a man...

Striktlymi is not a toddler...

Hence, toddlers are not humans...

A human becomes a human only when it has completely formed into a human. It has a spinal cord, brain, etc.
To be human is not just a physical condition, but the mental experience as well.

How then can you label a zygote as a human?

POPE II:

Like I said earlier I can tolerate abortion in a specific situation but it will still b wrong and a sin , no matter what . I'm not Solis bibla

why is it a sin if you can tolerate it?

Then you are a sinner doomed to hell.

lmao.


stop going by the book.

PAGAN 9JA:


why is it a sin if you can tolerate it?

Then you are a sinner doomed to hell.

lmao.


stop going by the book.

well the way I see it is simple, if your pregnancy is jeopardizing your own life and you know it is then you must get rid of it , failure to do that is considered as suicide in my book . Your death won't b an accident but a suicide which is also a sin . I'm not the one who tolerates sins what I meant is God is forgiving , you can repent and ask for forgiveness

@ oloachi the bible says thou shall not kill

Kay 17:

No, but they are cells.

Okay...

I won't stop you from calling Zygotes cells if that helps you develop your argument. Next question...

Does any of the stages of human development include being a 'cell'?

PAGAN 9JA:


Then sperms are the same as zygotes.

What makes them the same?

POPE II: well the way I see it is simple, if your pregnancy is jeopardizing your own life and you know it is then you must get rid of it , failure to do that is considered as suicide in my book . Your death won't b an accident but a suicide which is also a sin . I'm not the one who tolerates sins what I meant is God is forgiving , you can repent and ask for forgiveness

@ oloachi the bible says thou shall not kill

Then that only goes to prove that your bible is highly contradictory.

striktlymi:

What makes them the same?

since Zygotes are Humans.

PAGAN 9JA:


Then that only goes to prove that your bible is highly contradictory.

how?

POPE II: well the way I see it is simple, if your pregnancy is jeopardizing your own life and you know it is then you must get rid of it , failure to do that is considered as suicide in my book . Your death won't b an accident but a suicide which is also a sin . I'm not the one who tolerates sins what I meant is God is forgiving , you can repent and ask for forgiveness

@ oloachi the bible says thou shall not kill

You just looking at this from man made rules written in a book

The same Bible that condemn killing instigated killing a whole village and coverting their properties.
Why do you kill cockroaches since killing is a sin?

PAGAN 9JA:


Its not the killing of a human . The baby in the womb is not yet formed and developed completely into a human. Being human is not just looking and being made up of the materials that constitute humans. Being human is to be involved in all the basic activities that humans do. and to be physically formed as well. For which zygotes and half-formed babies in womb do not qualify. Or else, In that case you could also say that your blood is alive and killing of your RBC's is murde

So a baby in the womb is not a developing human being? Do you realize that even a 3 month or 3 week old child is not yet involved in all the basic activities of life? Do you realize that a blind man is not a human being according to your standards?

PAGAN 9JA:
I neither value, nor de-value it. The life of a disabled person is of concern. but you are going off topic again.

We are talking about babies in the womb and new-born babies. The disabled person's suffering couldve been prevented if he were never born that way.

We humans let disabled foetus survive and then we face the consequences and pity them. it doesnt make any sense.

I watched on cnn some days ago about a southafrican disabled man who was the winner of the tennis championship. Its better to let them face the consequences and live and even have a chance at being happy like the ones who won trophies in the olympics for nigeria than kill them and deny them a chance to live and even term them as non-human. That is wickedness.

PAGAN 9JA:
Is that all you have to say? My words are not borne of ignorance. They are based on FACTS.

Centuries of christian brainwashing, lies and racism. This has all combined and given rise to the by-product - Hitler.

Hitler was twisted and wicked BECAUSE he was christian. Accept that fact.

He didnt invent no jesus. He was a byproduct of jesus.

A son of man-god.

irrelevant. Based on falsehood. If hitler was a by-product of Jesus, then I am a space monkey. By products of Jesus are people like Mary Slessor.

OlaoChi:

You just looking at this from man made rules written in a book

The same Bible that condemn killing instigated killing a whole village and coverting their properties.
Why do you kill cockroaches since killing is a sin?

that commandment is for humans not animals.

That's before the news Alliance ,besides maybe my comment was not clear enough but what I meant is :

Rule 1 : we are all sinners
When we commit one we repent and ask for forgiveness .

Rule 2: the bible is perfect
However humans are not and our social context makes us do unholy things/sins this doesn't mean those things are no longer sins, killing is a sin b it in self defense, wars etc killing is a sin . So abortion is wrong, it is morally and spirituality wrong ,it is a sin and should never b made legal or encouraged. Now there is a context when abortion can b accepted , in a situation where the life of the mum is @ risk she can have an abortion .

POPE II: that commandment is for humans not animals.

That's before the news Alliance ,besides maybe my comment was not clear enough but what I meant is :

Rule 1 : we are all sinners
When we commit one we repent and ask for forgiveness .

Rule 2: the bible is perfect
However humans are not and our social context makes us do unholy things/sins this doesn't mean those things are no longer sins, killing is a sin b it in self defense, wars etc killing is a sin . So abortion is wrong, it is morally and spirituality wrong ,it is a sin and should never b made legal or encouraged. Now there is a context when abortion can b accepted , in a situation where the life of the mum is @ risk she can have an abortion .

some religions aren't against abortion. Sin is a personal thing, it's not general

you kill cows and elephants for no reason but can't kill a fishy in the womb because it's a sin.
Well at least you agree abortion is sometimes essential

Joshthefirst:
So a baby in the womb is not a developing human being? Do you realize that even a 3 month or 3 week old child is not yet involved in all the basic activities of life? Do you realize that a blind man is not a human being according to your standards?

A zygote is a not a human being yet. It has not experience the human world yet. It has not formed into a human yet.

can a bowl of batter be called "cake"

A blind man has reached his final stage of formation into human.

I watched on cnn some days ago about a southafrican disabled man who was the winner of the tennis championship. Its better to let them face the consequences and live and even have a chance at being happy like the ones who won trophies in the olympics for nigeria than kill them and deny them a chance to live and even term them as non-human. That is wickedness.

Thats a very wicked thought. Eyes are the most important part of our body. Just because he has won a championship, does that mean he is very happy. He is just accustomed himself, but has not had the chance to experience life to its fullest. who are you to decide happiness for them?

The unborn baby does not even think by its own terms. It does not even know whether it wants to live or not.

Do you know how much troubles the parents also have to go through with disabled children? DO you know what it means like to not SEE Its terrible to even think of it.

irrelevant. Based on falsehood. If hitler was a by-product of Jesus, then I am a space monkey. By products of Jesus are people like Mary Slessor.

You are a space monkey then.
You just chose what suits you, even after I posted all those proofs.

OlaoChi:

some religions aren't against abortion. Sin is a personal thing, it's not general

you kill cows and elephants for no reason but can't kill a fishy in the womb because it's a sin.
Well at least you agree abortion is sometimes essential

Where did we kill cows and elephants for no reasons? And like I said earlier the bible is for humans and only applies to humans . Animals can't even read lol

All religions are against abortion. I repeat all religions

POPE II:

Where did we kill cows and elephants for no reasons? And like I said earlier the bible is for humans and only applies to humans . Animals can't even read lol

All religions are against abortion. I repeat all religions

So a person who can't read is excused and his actions and actions against him cannot be held as sin?
Because babies in the womb can't read either so we should apply this to them?

OlaoChi:

So a person who can't read is excused and his actions and actions against him cannot be held as sin?
Because babies in the womb can't read either so we should apply this to them?

are you doing this on purpose? I was talking about animals .

Babies are humans and thou shall not kill
BTW apply what to them? Where did I say what you put here? Please calm down and read before answering , I said the bible can't b applied to non human or animals . That's the bottom line

striktlymi:

Okay...

I won't stop you from calling Zygotes cells if that helps you develop your argument. Next question...

Does any of the stages of human development include being a 'cell'?

Yes

Here we go again.The abortion debate rages on & doesn't seem likely to end anytime soon.Although it's interesting to see the 'abortion should never be carried out under any circumstance' crew suddenly softening up and offering circumstances when it is permissible..hmm interesting.Here's some perspective for you folks

9. Laws against abortion do not stop abortion; they simply make it less safe. The number of women who get abortions does not change when it goes from being legal to illegal, or vice versa. The only thing that changes is more women die. Every year, 78,000 women die from unsafe abortions.

8. If people want to stop abortion, they should turn to methods that do work. These include comprehensive sex education and safe, affordable contraceptives. Unfortunately, as illogical as it sounds, the people who are most against abortion are also often most against these preventative measures. If they truly wanted to reduce the number of abortions that occur, they would embrace these methods.

7. Religious ideology is no foundation for any law. Freedom of religion is guaranteed to every citizen; so why would the beliefs and values of one religion mandate actual laws for all citizens? It would be unfair, unjust and immoral. We do not have laws against eating fish, nor do we have laws that declare it is legal to sell one’s daughter, rap3 someone, or keep a person as a slave—all things that are promoted in religious text.

6. Reproductive restrictions do not end with abortion. Many people also argue that contraception itself is wrong—another mainly-religious philosophy—and will deny women the protection they need based on this belief. There are legislative acts that allow actual pharmacists to deny women their birth control because of their beliefs; does this not violate the Hippocratic Oath, especially if thousands of women are on birth control because their very lives depend on it (see #2)? Also, since it is my belief that men should not rape women, if I were a pharmacist, would I have a right to deny a man his Viagra just in case he uses it to rap3? You never know.

5. Most people who are against abortion will never even become pregnant. If a law would never, in any circumstance, apply to a man, a man creating that law is preposterous. It is akin to men creating laws that ban women from voting, owning property, or showing skin in public—only much more deadly.

4. Women who are rap3d or victims of inc3st should not be forced to carry out a pregnancy. Odds are that 1 in 3 women will be victims of sexual violence in her lifetime. Does this mean that 33% of all women should be forced to carry out a pregnancy from this violation? Considering how many people are killed during childbirth (see #2), should we allow this further risk to endured on top of what has already been done?

Many would argue that these women could endure the pregnancy, spending nearly a year of her life simply re-living the rap3 and its effects over and over again, to give up a baby at the end of it for adoption. However, we all are aware of the fact that there are millions of unwanted children awaiting adoption as we speak who remain unclaimed; in fact, UNICEF estimates that there are 210 million orphans in the world right now. If they have no one willing to be their parent or guardian, why would another baby have a better chance?

My theory is that people who spend so much time, energy, and money on anti-abortion campaigns should instead spend it on the precious children they say need saving so much—the ones who are alive and parentless. Imagine if all the funds spent on all those billboards and flyers and campaigns were instead either spent adopting or donating to places that are overrun with orphaned children… perhaps some actual credibility would be given to these people who claim to love children so much.

3. Reproductive choice can be the only thing that stands between a woman and poverty. There is a reason that the 1 billion poorest people on the planet are female. In sub-Saharan Africa and west Asia, women typically have five to six children, which leaves them powerless to provide for not only their own families, but themselves.

2. Reproductive choice can be the only thing that stands between a woman and DEATH. Women who face deadly consequences of a pregnancy deserve to choose to live. Teen girls, whose bodies are not yet ready for childbirth, are five times more likely to die. Not only do 70,000 girls ages 15-19 die each year from pregnancy and childbirth, but the babies that do survive have a 60% higher chance of dying as well.

1. Doctors, not governments, should always be the people to make medical recommendations and opinions. Would you allow the government to tell you if you could have a kidney transplant or a blood transfusion? Of course not. The fact that we even consider, let alone allow, governments to regulate a medical procedure is both illogical and foolish.

Rubbish

POPE II:

All religions are against abortion. I repeat all religions

wrong. Pagan religions do not interfere in non-spiritual issues.

Abortion is not a sin in extreme conditions. God is not totally against killing, the same God that said "thou shalt not kill" said if a child curses his parents he should be "stoned to death". It's better to abort a child than make him suffer, you will regret you gave birth to him and the child will also regret being alive(or do you think somebody that is handicapped from birth is happy with his/her existence?)

POPE II: well the way I see it is simple, if your pregnancy is jeopardizing your own life and you know it is then you must get rid of it , failure to do that is considered as suicide in my book . Your death won't b an accident but a suicide which is also a sin . I'm not the one who tolerates sins what I meant is God is forgiving , you can repent and ask for forgiveness

@ oloachi the bible says thou shall not kill

Think about this scenario an give me your honest opinion. Try and answer directly. Not necessarily a "Yes" or "No". I will need you to explain your answer.


SCENARIO:

You have a child.

Both of you went sailing.

In the middle of the sea, you noticed a crack in the boat.

The trip back may only allow for one of you to go back safely.

If both of you attempt to go back in the cracked boat, death for you two is inevitable because the boat can't safely take both your weights. But there is no guaranty.

If you direct the boat well and any of you jump over board, you or the child may get to shore safely.

The sea is shark infested!


QUESTION:

What do you do if faced with that scenario?

PAGAN 9JA:


since Zygotes are Humans.

It does not follow...

Kay 17:

Yes

Okay, cool!

Our development as humans starts from what you prefer to call a "cell".

Next question:

Does the body parts of a 'fully developed' human make him/her any more human than the less developed 'body parts' of an 'under-developed' human?

If "yes" kindly explain a bit so I understand your thoughts on this.