mazaje:

Not true, I have acknowledge christians and muslims here who i consider to be bright different on many cases so you have failed. . .You are yet to show that you have a superior knowledge of science or that understand evolution better than anybody here. . .So why do you keep repeating that people here do not know anything about science and evolution when you are yet to show that you posses superior knowledge?. . .Your post speak for themselves. . .Read your post and that of others you have been debating with, how have you shown that you are better than them?. . .HOW

you have no clue about the science underpinning evolution... so whatever i say would be a complete waste of time when it comes to you. Its like urban crowing about how others do not understand evolution when it takes him a whole year to understand how a "journal conducts research". At what point do we begin to see posts such as this for the complete joke they truly are?

davidylan:

you have no clue about the science underpinning evolution... so whatever i say would be a complete waste of time when it comes to you. Its like urban crowing about how others do not understand evolution when it takes him a whole year to understand how a "journal conducts research". At what point do we begin to see posts such as this for the complete joke they truly are?

. .

I am putting it to you that you do NOT understand evolution better than i do, I understand evolution VERY well, i have studied it VERY well for over 6 years, there is nothing you know that I don't and you do NOT know the theory better than i do. . . that is why I have been able to conclude that your own knowledge of evolution is NOT better than that of those you constantly try to degrade as having no knowledge of what they are saying. . . .Tell that to someone else not me. . .Same thing you are saying about urban can be said about you, you have been caught lying and mischaracterizing simple evolution principles here, so what exactly are you on about?. . .

mazaje: . .

I am putting it to you that you do NOT understand evolution better than i do, I understand evolution VERY well, i have studied it VERY well for over 6 years, there is nothing you know that I don't and you do NOT know the theory better than i do. . . that is why I have been able to conclude that your own knowledge of evolution is NOT better than that of those you constantly try to degrade as having no knowledge of what they are saying. . . .Tell that to someone else not me. . .Same thing you are saying about urban can be said about you, you have been caught lying and mischaracterizing simple evolution principles here, so what exactly are you on about?. . .

Its the same loud hyperbole all over again... time and time again we've had opportunities to debate evolution and most of it has devolved into shouting matches mostly by atheists who cannot properly articulate their points and merely spend so much time conflating issues, copy/pasting from websites etc. The simplest problem is the constant need to pretend that micro evolution is the same as macro evolution - this dishonest practice is largely because macro evolution has no proof and the atheist thus needs to fall back on the evidence for micro evolution.

davidylan:

Its the same loud hyperbole all over again... time and time again we've had opportunities to debate evolution and most of it has devolved into shouting matches mostly by atheists who cannot properly articulate their points and merely spend so much time conflating issues, copy/pasting from websites etc. The simplest problem is the constant need to pretend that micro evolution is the same as macro evolution - this dishonest practice is largely because macro evolution has no proof and the atheist thus needs to fall back on the evidence for micro evolution.

This is the problem I have with you. . .You are always trying to sound as if you are smarter than others when you are just like them. . .Do you not also copy from websites?. . .What do you know about evolution that is originally your own knowledge?. . .is it not some one else idea about evolution that you copy and paste in your anti evolution debates?. . .This is the same davidylan that will say if not because of wikipedia and google people will not be able to post anything only for him reference and post from the same wikipedia and use the same google to look things up. . . . .You are funny. . .I will agree with you that the evidence for macro evolution is tenuous. . .

davidylan:

lol many of you use words that frankly mean nothing in the context of the discussion. Please google the definition of the word "delusion". What really does it mean? Do you understand it outside of employing it purely as an insult? You cant "display delusion" if all you've done is respond to the visceral spite from those who crow about their intellectual bonafides when it comes to science. Its not as if we've been discussing some serious issue on which you can base your claim.

But of course... its a saturday... feel free to speak as you see fit.

Even your bible talks about the excessive ranting of fools,(proverbs 10:13-14,12:23) so please continue clearing doubts that you are one and last I checked,an empty barrel makes louder noise..

Image123:

errmmm, is this mockery, intellectual, criticism, or plain frustration, a lack of home training and disregard for forum rules/public behavior?

lol.....old man, go home and rest

submit:
Even your bible talks about the excessive ranting of fools,(proverbs 10:13-14,12:23) so please continue clearing doubts that you are one and last I checked,an empty barrel makes louder noise..

#Davidylan owned

Okay, i said i should be back to respond to the rest of the post and perhaps more comprehensively

Kay17:
If 96 percent of Ghanaians believe in a God whom they pray to, who answers their prayers, watches their lives, and intercedes on our behalf, then our conduct, our actions must reflect that. Well, does it?

When we fall sick, we do not head to the church, to the temple or to the mosque to pray, (ah, but I am mistaken! Alas!, some do, with disastrous consequences! - but that is another matter). When we want an attire we see the tailor. When we have a legal case, we see a lawyer. When our car breaks down, we call a mechanic.

http://m.modernghana.com/mobile/552468/1/i-daresay-you-dont-believe-in-god.html

Belief in God does not exclude having a lawyer or a tailor. There is no where God COMMANDS us to go to church when sick. How you arrive at that as true belief beats imagination. Faith in God is trusting God, it is the evidence of things not seen. That is, a 'hope' that one will be well when sick, instead of giving up. This 'hope' placed in God sees Him as in control of the universe and not permitting things to go out of His control. This 'hope' can cry/call to God for help especially for His glory, or when one is overwhelmed/helpless about the situation or sickness.
Faith in God is not carelessness or a resort to irresponsibility. God is not against medicine or humans bettering their lives with the use of science, technology etc. What He warns though is that we do not forget Him or completely place our trust in anything(ourselves or inventions) while neglecting God. Emphasis on NEGLECTING GOD.

Why is it that when such cases arise we turn to other humans for help? Why do we not take our petitions to God directly and by-pass all these intermediary humans? We almost never choose exclusive prayer.

Here's a deal: let's abolish the law enforcement agencies, forget the military apparatus. Why not? God will protect his children. Unless of course, we aren't sure He will.

There is NO COMMAND or injunction against human help. God created us as SOCIAL beings. Nothing stops us from taking our petitions and requests to God and still going to an hospital, they are not mutually exclusive events. Christians are to pray without ceasing, and to commit ALL their ways to God's hands. You have an exam/test, you pray and go to write. You don't just pray and not read, that is not what the Bible teaches. True faith is not irresponsibility, true faith is walking hand in hand with God, trusting Him to favour you and help you, and true faith is rooted in God's Word.

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Here is God's Word, on a particular man that had frequent stomach troubles and infirmities. The writer prescribed something for him to use. Of course, it does not exclude faith in God, prayer, or people praying for him. They can all be done, nothing wrong with that. Anything used to treat or prevent illness is referred to as medicine. The Bible teaches that medicine does GOOD.
Pro 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.


The above is what is okay for anyone to follow and God is not against it. It is different from MIRACLE. Miracle is not necessarily true faith/belief. God can do miracles, but it is not for normal living. Miracle is God doing the supernatural or unusual. Like keeping people in the wilderness for 40years, or delivering someone from evident theft, robbery or danger, fire, accident. Those are miraculous and they happen. But whether they happen or not, one can demonstrate true faith. Infact, their happening is not a proof of true faith. Miracles can happen through God's mercy, providence, sovereignty, prophecy etc, not necessarily faith. God does not command or require us to exclusively pray and do nothing else. You are to watch and pray.

The Pope has never grown weary of reminding the world how benign, how merciful, how benevolent, and beneficent the infinite God he worships and whose wisdom is beyond reproach is. Hardly, does he realize the irony of conducting the business of God in bullet-proof cars. If the Pope believed that God is ultra-benevolent, ever merciful, and all powerful enough to protect him, and if He really intercedes on behalf of the worthy, why does the Pope need the services of bullet-proof vehicles, and the Swiss Guard? Won't God protect him? If there was danger lurking, won't God avert the danger? Wouldn't God brush aside a bullet directed at him? Or could a decent God who upholds justice, and punishes evil not change the assassin's mind and heart? Or couldn't He blight the assassin with some cool heart-attack? But is the Pope or the Vatican counting on God to protect him? No! Of course, not!

This by implication applies to all cases of security to as little as having a door lock or a gate at one's house. Your reasoning will say at least God is your Shepherd and will deliver you from evil, so while have passwords or lock the door, or have mosquito nets. That is not the correct understanding or teaching, this is amongst why i said you are malinformed. God expects us to put up proper care and security for ourselves, bodies and nation. He has given us the collective wisdom and knowledge required. Nothing stops us from the use of soldiers, police, and other protective medium if it so requires. Even if it requires angels, God can give it. Apostle Paul was guarded by centurions to keep him from bodily harm by some zealots. Some people like the pope, some leaders are public figures are subject to attack, assassins, bodily harm, thronging etc. It is not wrong for them to be adequately protected. True faith is not irresponsibility or carelessness.

The laity is asked to demonstrate their faith by doing things for God. But never encouraged to validate faith itself by testing if God himself will return the courtesy.

On the contrary, most so called conversions and altar calls are done with the so called encouragement that God will do so many things. Are you living on earth?

If a person claims to believe in miracles, and does not turn to doctors when afflicted with disease, but turns to prayer for healing, then we can make a case for 'true belief'. It would also be an incredibly silly move - but that's a different matter.

Miracles happen on the hospital bed too. Though i doubt if you believe miracles happen ANYWHERE even. There are different sources of healing, prayer is one, medical attention is one, laughter/good news is one, music is one, food is one, they are all valid.

Why didn't Abraham simply pick up a ram rather than his son?

Like David said earlier, "you should read the bible rather than pretending to ask questions that you clearly do not want answers to."
God specifically told him to, recall?

Why didn't Gideon simply pick enough men to fight against the Ammonites?

He didn't have enough men.

Why did Jesus heal the sick when they could have gone to the hospital?

He healed those that went to the hospital too.

Why didn't God want David to count his army?

Because He didn't want him to at that time. He does not answer to you, does He? At another time, He did approve a census.

Image123: Okay, i said i should be back to respond to the rest of the post and perhaps more comprehensively



Belief in God does not exclude having a lawyer or a tailor. There is no where God COMMANDS us to go to church when sick. How you arrive at that as true belief beats imagination. Faith in God is trusting God, it is the evidence of things not seen. That is, a 'hope' that one will be well when sick, instead of giving up. This 'hope' placed in God sees Him as in control of the universe and not permitting things to go out of His control. This 'hope' can cry/call to God for help especially for His glory, or when one is overwhelmed/helpless about the situation or sickness.
Faith in God is not carelessness or a resort to irresponsibility. God is not against medicine or humans bettering their lives with the use of science, technology etc. What He warns though is that we do not forget Him or completely place our trust in anything(ourselves or inventions) while neglecting God. Emphasis on NEGLECTING GOD.



There is NO COMMAND or injunction against human help. God created us as SOCIAL beings. Nothing stops us from taking our petitions and requests to God and still going to an hospital, they are not mutually exclusive events. Christians are to pray without ceasing, and to commit ALL their ways to God's hands. You have an exam/test, you pray and go to write. You don't just pray and not read, that is not what the Bible teaches. True faith is not irresponsibility, true faith is walking hand in hand with God, trusting Him to favour you and help you, and true faith is rooted in God's Word.

1Ti 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.

Here is God's Word, on a particular man that had frequent stomach troubles and infirmities. The writer prescribed something for him to use. Of course, it does not exclude faith in God, prayer, or people praying for him. They can all be done, nothing wrong with that. Anything used to treat or prevent illness is referred to as medicine. The Bible teaches that medicine does GOOD.
Pro 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.


The above is what is okay for anyone to follow and God is not against it. It is different from MIRACLE. Miracle is not necessarily true faith/belief. God can do miracles, but it is not for normal living. Miracle is God doing the supernatural or unusual. Like keeping people in the wilderness for 40years, or delivering someone from evident theft, robbery or danger, fire, accident. Those are miraculous and they happen. But whether they happen or not, one can demonstrate true faith. Infact, their happening is not a proof of true faith. Miracles can happen through God's mercy, providence, sovereignty, prophecy etc, not necessarily faith. God does not command or require us to exclusively pray and do nothing else. You are to watch and pray.




This by implication applies to all cases of security to as little as having a door lock or a gate at one's house. Your reasoning will say at least God is your Shepherd and will deliver you from evil, so while have passwords or lock the door, or have mosquito nets. That is not the correct understanding or teaching, this is amongst why i said you are malinformed. God expects us to put up proper care and security for ourselves, bodies and nation. He has given us the collective wisdom and knowledge required. Nothing stops us from the use of soldiers, police, and other protective medium if it so requires. Even if it requires angels, God can give it. Apostle Paul was guarded by centurions to keep him from bodily harm by some zealots. Some people like the pope, some leaders are public figures are subject to attack, assassins, bodily harm, thronging etc. It is not wrong for them to be adequately protected. True faith is not irresponsibility or carelessness.



On the contrary, most so called conversions and altar calls are done with the so called encouragement that God will do so many things. Are you living on earth?


Miracles happen on the hospital bed too. Though i doubt if you believe miracles happen ANYWHERE even. There are different sources of healing, prayer is one, medical attention is one, laughter/good news is one, music is one, food is one, they are all valid.


Like David said earlier, "you should read the bible rather than pretending to ask questions that you clearly do not want answers to."
God specifically told him to, recall?


He didn't have enough men.


He healed those that went to the hospital too.


Because He didn't want him to at that time. He does not answer to you, does He? At another time, He did approve a census.

BUT why would Jesus resurrect the dead and heal the sick when there are hospitals?

Kay17:

BUT why would Jesus resurrect the dead and heal the sick when there are hospitals?

Sometimes when I read your posts, I just smile and shake my head. Most of the time, I'm not even sure why. smh

Sorry I don't mean to derail. I'm in a strange mood.

@ topic
Good Question...Were there hospitals when Jesus walked the earth though? I guess you mean now.

Your mind works in logic and well defined practicality, it seems to me. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. There is no amount of expiation from a spiritual perspective that can convince you of anything.

I follow you so I read much of what you write. You tend to use "Spock-like" logic. Almost human, but not quite. That is not an insult btw, even if it sounds that way. After all Spock is half human. If you have ever watched the old TV series reruns, you would see that Captain Kirk and Spock are best friends. Even so, sometimes Kirk just smiles, shakes his head as he walks away.

PastorAIO: The subject of this thread is also treated here in Psalms 14.


14 The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.

In their heart they have said 'there is no god' hence their deeds demonstrate this in every way.

In their heart they have said 'there is no god' though from their lips all you can hear all morning all day and all night is 'God God God.'

The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.” This kind of implies that the wise should speak out about what they feel and not keep it in the heart. Could it be that those who have questions about the existence of God and keep it in their heart are considered fools while the vocal ones are wise? It sure sounds like it to me by deductive reasoning.

Also, remember Matthew 5:22:"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement. Again, anyone who says to his brother 'Raca', is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool' will be in the fire of hell".

texanomaly:

Sometimes when I read your posts, I just smile and shake my head. Most of the time, I'm not even sure why. smh

Sorry I don't mean to derail. I'm in a strange mood.

@ topic
Good Question...Were there hospitals when Jesus walked the earth though? I guess you mean now.

Your mind works in logic and well defined practicality, it seems to me. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. There is no amount of expiation from a spiritual perspective that can convince you of anything.

I follow you so I read much of what you write. You tend to use "Spock-like" logic. Almost human, but not quite. That is not an insult btw, even if it sounds that way. After all Spock is half human. If you have ever watched the old TV series reruns, you would see that Captain Kirk and Spock are best friends. Even so, sometimes Kirk just smiles, shakes his head as he walks away.

Texanomaly comes again with her "passive aggressive" condescension. Veiled and soft insults.

Just because you say something nicely, it doesnt mean that it cant be taken as an insult.


I have corrected you on using that "biased theist generalisation" of atheists that believes that atheists are some cold hearted machines that only use logic to guide their lives.

Spock is no different from a robot who cant see the emotional side of things. This even became one of his downfalls when he expected some alien enemies to back down in fear of their superior firepower- unfortunately, the aliens got angry and still fought. The aliens didnt respond with logic, instead it was anger that made them fight back in the face of a crystal clear defeat.


So please, stop the generalisation. Atheists are not robots and also, logic is important.



Furthermore, Jesus talked about the good samaritan who took a dying man to an inn to recover. There were hospitals then. They just werent called "hospitals" and they were not as modern as we have them now

Kay17:

BUT why would Jesus resurrect the dead and heal the sick when there are hospitals?

It's like asking why there are trains when there are cars and motorcycles. They are different forms/modes of transportation. Miracles heal and hospitals heal, they are not competing with the other or mutually exclusive. Again, i advice you to follow David's advice, you're not sincere to learn.

Image123:

It's like asking why there are trains when there are cars and motorcycles. They are different forms/modes of transportation. Miracles heal and hospitals heal, they are not competing with the other or mutually exclusive. Again, i advice you to follow David's advice, you're not sincere to learn.

A Muslim lady claimed she got healed from cancer. Now, I wonder which God did her own miracle... Could it be the same God of Jesus?

shdemidemi:

A Muslim lady claimed she got healed from cancer. Now, I wonder which God did her own miracle... Could it be the same God of Jesus?

Wonder is good for you, God is God of wonders.

Image123:

It's like asking why there are trains when there are cars and motorcycles. They are different forms/modes of transportation. Miracles heal and hospitals heal, they are not competing with the other or mutually exclusive. Again, i advice you to follow David's advice, you're not sincere to learn.

HENCE one (a Christian) can decide to rely on his faith when plagued with a disease or cancerous tumour rather than go to a hospital?!

The subtle conclusion frequently made in this thread, is that miracle/faith should serve as a last resort when orthodox medicine fails. If a woman has an ectopic pregnancy, there is no reason why she shouldn't rely on her omnipotent God to actively heal her. At least doctors are not omnipotent.

texanomaly:

Sometimes when I read your posts, I just smile and shake my head. Most of the time, I'm not even sure why. smh

Sorry I don't mean to derail. I'm in a strange mood.

@ topic
Good Question...Were there hospitals when Jesus walked the earth though? I guess you mean now.

Your mind works in logic and well defined practicality, it seems to me. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. There is no amount of expiation from a spiritual perspective that can convince you of anything.

I will take that as a compliment. However, what is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith?

What is the dividing line between the physical and the spiritual? I think it is a fictional division. The spiritual is entirely unintelligble to our senses and mind. And no one on Nairaland takes the time to define it.

people are still debating here?? Did you all miss the new maracanazo for this?

Kay17:

HENCE one (a Christian) can decide to rely on his faith when plagued with a disease or cancerous tumour rather than go to a hospital?!

The subtle conclusion frequently made in this thread, is that miracle/faith should serve as a last resort when orthodox medicine fails. If a woman has an ectopic pregnancy, there is no reason why she shouldn't rely on her omnipotent God to actively heal her. At least doctors are not omnipotent.

A Christian should have faith all the time. Faith without works is dead. Faith is not a last resort, without faith it is impossible to please God.

Image123:

A Christian should have faith all the time. Faith without works is dead. Faith is not a last resort, without faith it is impossible to please God.

When Peter stepped out of the boat to walk on water, what work did he do that guaranteed his miracle of walking on water?

Kay17:

When Peter stepped out of the boat to walk on water, what work did he do that guaranteed his miracle of walking on water?

Stepping out.

stop asking purposeless questions, please.

Kay17:

I will take that as a compliment. However, what is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith?

What is the dividing line between the physical and the spiritual? I think it is a fictional division. The spiritual is entirely unintelligble to our senses and mind. And no one on Nairaland takes the time to define it.

@ first bolded
This sentence is the reason I made my last statement. It WAS a compliment on your reasoning skills btw. There is a saying in the Southern United States. We sometimes say, “Bless your heart.” It can have a negative connotation or a positive connotation, depending on the way it is used. For me, sometimes it is used sarcastically. In your case, however, I use it both figuratively and literally.

Bless your heart, because logic tends to override it. You made a statement in a reply once to an op about love. The exact words alluded me at the moment, but the pure logic you used, in the face of matters of the heart, still come to mind when I see your moniker. Maybe the problem I see, when I read your comments, is that I’m not sure you can “see” in any other way. Now I am basing that purely on what I’ve seen here on NL, because I don’t know you at all. What you write here is all I have to go on. I’m sorry to make this personal. To answer your question fully, it is necessary.

This is the definition I found for reason:
rea•son
[ree-zuh n]

noun
1.
a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war.
2.
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.
3.
the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.
4.
sound judgment; good sense.
5.
normal or sound powers of mind; sanity.




These are the words used:

basis or cause for
justification or explanation
mental power concerned with forming conclusions
sound judgment; good sense

These are all statements concerning thought processes that, if governed by the brain only, cannot comprehend spiritual matters. Your first question was:

What is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith? This is an excellent question.


This statement, you made next, shows me why you asked it, and why it is incomprehensible to you:
The spiritual is entirely unintelligble to our senses and mind. And no one on Nairaland takes the time to define it.

It is unintelligible to you because you are unable, at this time, to apprehend what is being said to you. You are listening with your mind. When you should be listening with your heart. Lol…I know, I know. That doesn’t make sense. Hence I say again, “Bless your heart.”

The spiritual is not necessarily a matter of reason. It does require knowledge, if one is to practice ones spirituality. We can’t just say we believe and we are good to go. The start of faith though does take something you, and many Atheist, may have lost, or may have never had. That is to get outside your head and think with your spirit. Now I know many of you think that is rubbish. Once again, it is not something that can be “known” without using faculties that are not of the 5 known senses. So…if you haven’t disregarded what I’m saying already, because it makes no sense to you, I’ll continue.

One of the definitions of spiritual is Incorporeal or immaterial nature. That alone precludes the five known senses. So even the definition of “spiritual” is alien to many. If one does not believe we have a spirt or that spirits exist, no amount of explanation will help them understand. I realize this just seems like smoke and mirrors. There is no other way to apprehend what spiritual means, when one is unwilling to contemplate that there are things out there that cannot be explained by our minds and 5 senses.

Well here we are back at the beginning. I have still not laid to rest the question “in your mind”. I am back to what everyone says…So in answer to your question…what is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith?

Yes you must have faith. I realize quoting the Bible is useless if the people you are quoting it to are nonbelievers in it, but this definition is perfect. Hebrews 11:1…Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

To have faith is to hope for things which are not seen. Every day we act upon things we hope for, even before you see the end result. Faith is an action brought on by conviction. It cannot be quantitated or factored. It cannot be explained in a logical manner. Frankly, I feel those who possess it should be able to use evidentiary privilege against those who think only in terms of reason and logic, because it is incomprehendible to those who don’t believe the spiritual exists. We are not obligated to prove spirituality exists, what it is or how it works. You cannot and will not believe it, at this time, anyway.

That’s my two cents…for what it’s worth.

So bless you Kay17. Especially your heart.

texanomaly:

@ first bolded
This sentence is the reason I made my last statement. It WAS a compliment on your reasoning skills btw. There is a saying in the Southern United States. We sometimes say, “Bless your heart.” It can have a negative connotation or a positive connotation, depending on the way it is used. For me, sometimes it is used sarcastically. In your case, however, I use it both figuratively and literally.

Bless your heart, because logic tends to override it. You made a statement in a reply once to an op about love. The exact words alluded me at the moment, but the pure logic you used, in the face of matters of the heart, still come to mind when I see your moniker. Maybe the problem I see, when I read your comments, is that I’m not sure you can “see” in any other way. Now I am basing that purely on what I’ve seen here on NL, because I don’t know you at all. What you write here is all I have to go on. I’m sorry to make this personal. To answer your question fully, it is necessary.

This is the definition I found for reason:
rea•son
[ree-zuh n]

noun
1.
a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war.
2.
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.
3.
the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.
4.
sound judgment; good sense.
5.
normal or sound powers of mind; sanity.




These are the words used:

basis or cause for
justification or explanation
mental power concerned with forming conclusions
sound judgment; good sense

These are all statements concerning thought processes that, if governed by the brain only, cannot comprehend spiritual matters. Your first question was:

What is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith? This is an excellent question.


This statement, you made next, shows me why you asked it, and why it is incomprehensible to you:
The spiritual is entirely unintelligble to our senses and mind. And no one on Nairaland takes the time to define it.

It is unintelligible to you because you are unable, at this time, to apprehend what is being said to you. You are listening with your mind. When you should be listening with your heart. Lol…I know, I know. That doesn’t make sense. Hence I say again, “Bless your heart.”

The spiritual is not necessarily a matter of reason. It does require knowledge, if one is to practice ones spirituality. We can’t just say we believe and we are good to go. The start of faith though does take something you, and many Atheist, may have lost, or may have never had. That is to get outside your head and think with your spirit. Now I know many of you think that is rubbish. Once again, it is not something that can be “known” without using faculties that are not of the 5 known senses. So…if you haven’t disregarded what I’m saying already, because it makes no sense to you, I’ll continue.

One of the definitions of spiritual is Incorporeal or immaterial nature. That alone precludes the five known senses. So even the definition of “spiritual” is alien to many. If one does not believe we have a spirt or that spirits exist, no amount of explanation will help them understand. I realize this just seems like smoke and mirrors. There is no other way to apprehend what spiritual means, when one is unwilling to contemplate that there are things out there that cannot be explained by our minds and 5 senses.

Well here we are back at the beginning. I have still not laid to rest the question “in your mind”. I am back to what everyone says…So in answer to your question…what is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith?

Yes you must have faith. I realize quoting the Bible is useless if the people you are quoting it to are nonbelievers in it, but this definition is perfect. Hebrews 11:1…Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

To have faith is to hope for things which are not seen. Every day we act upon things we hope for, even before you see the end result. Faith is an action brought on by conviction. It cannot be quantitated or factored. It cannot be explained in a logical manner. Frankly, I feel those who possess it should be able to use evidentiary privilege against those who think only in terms of reason and logic, because it is incomprehendible to those who don’t believe the spiritual exists. We are not obligated to prove spirituality exists, what it is or how it works. You cannot and will not believe it, at this time, anyway.

That’s my two cents…for what it’s worth.

So bless you Kay17. Especially your heart.

And the part about the spock-like logic?

Anyhoo since, Kay took it as a compliment

Image123:
Stepping out.

stop asking purposeless questions, please.

Equally, a woman with ectopic pregnancy can do "work" by merely stepping into a church OR buying a bible OR by praying without going to the hospital to seek for expert medical advice, right? These are not purposeless questions rather they are directed to clarify your true position on the use of miracles by Christians.

texanomaly:

@ first bolded
This sentence is the reason I made my last statement. It WAS a compliment on your reasoning skills btw. There is a saying in the Southern United States. We sometimes say, “Bless your heart.” It can have a negative connotation or a positive connotation, depending on the way it is used. For me, sometimes it is used sarcastically. In your case, however, I use it both figuratively and literally.

Bless your heart, because logic tends to override it. You made a statement in a reply once to an op about love. The exact words alluded me at the moment, but the pure logic you used, in the face of matters of the heart, still come to mind when I see your moniker. Maybe the problem I see, when I read your comments, is that I’m not sure you can “see” in any other way. Now I am basing that purely on what I’ve seen here on NL, because I don’t know you at all. What you write here is all I have to go on. I’m sorry to make this personal. To answer your question fully, it is necessary.

This is the definition I found for reason:
rea•son
[ree-zuh n]

noun
1.
a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war.
2.
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.
3.
the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.
4.
sound judgment; good sense.
5.
normal or sound powers of mind; sanity.




These are the words used:

basis or cause for
justification or explanation
mental power concerned with forming conclusions
sound judgment; good sense

These are all statements concerning thought processes that, if governed by the brain only, cannot comprehend spiritual matters. Your first question was:

What is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith? This is an excellent question.


This statement, you made next, shows me why you asked it, and why it is incomprehensible to you:
The spiritual is entirely unintelligble to our senses and mind. And no one on Nairaland takes the time to define it.

It is unintelligible to you because you are unable, at this time, to apprehend what is being said to you. You are listening with your mind. When you should be listening with your heart. Lol…I know, I know. That doesn’t make sense. Hence I say again, “Bless your heart.”

The spiritual is not necessarily a matter of reason. It does require knowledge, if one is to practice ones spirituality. We can’t just say we believe and we are good to go. The start of faith though does take something you, and many Atheist, may have lost, or may have never had. That is to get outside your head and think with your spirit. Now I know many of you think that is rubbish. Once again, it is not something that can be “known” without using faculties that are not of the 5 known senses. So…if you haven’t disregarded what I’m saying already, because it makes no sense to you, I’ll continue.

One of the definitions of spiritual is Incorporeal or immaterial nature. That alone precludes the five known senses. So even the definition of “spiritual” is alien to many. If one does not believe we have a spirt or that spirits exist, no amount of explanation will help them understand. I realize this just seems like smoke and mirrors. There is no other way to apprehend what spiritual means, when one is unwilling to contemplate that there are things out there that cannot be explained by our minds and 5 senses.

Well here we are back at the beginning. I have still not laid to rest the question “in your mind”. I am back to what everyone says…So in answer to your question…what is our guide in spiritual matters other than reason? Faith?

Yes you must have faith. I realize quoting the Bible is useless if the people you are quoting it to are nonbelievers in it, but this definition is perfect. Hebrews 11:1…Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

To have faith is to hope for things which are not seen. Every day we act upon things we hope for, even before you see the end result. Faith is an action brought on by conviction. It cannot be quantitated or factored. It cannot be explained in a logical manner. Frankly, I feel those who possess it should be able to use evidentiary privilege against those who think only in terms of reason and logic, because it is incomprehendible to those who don’t believe the spiritual exists. We are not obligated to prove spirituality exists, what it is or how it works. You cannot and will not believe it, at this time, anyway.

That’s my two cents…for what it’s worth.

So bless you Kay17. Especially your heart.

You would agree with me that all knowledge lie either as truth or falsehood. Some people like mranony believe the truth is more valuable than falsehood, especially as regards spiritual matters.

There has to be a test for the truth, so whereby faith is a freetown medium to admit all sorts of ideas without a truth sieve in the name of the heart, falsehood would slip in. Reason and the laws of thought are extremely important. In the spiritual world, you wouldn't believe contradictions exist, right?

Again saying the spiritual is incorporeal and intangible, doesn't really cut it. An idea is both yet it is not regarded as spiritual. Time is not tangible either.

Kay17:

You would agree with me that all knowledge lie either as truth or falsehood. Some people like mranony believe the truth is more valuable than falsehood, especially as regards spiritual matters.

There has to be a test for the truth, so whereby faith is a freetown medium to admit all sorts of ideas without a truth sieve in the name of the heart, falsehood would slip in. Reason and the laws of thought are extremely important. In the spiritual world, you wouldn't believe contradictions exist, right?

Again saying the spiritual is incorporeal and intangible, doesn't really cut it. An idea is both yet it is not regarded as spiritual. Time is not tangible either.

I wish I had answers that would satisfy you. Honestly I wish I did. You are right. Many atrocities have been perpetrated in the name of faith and spirituality. There is so much of it, in fact, that religion has become a joke, and or disappointment to many people. I actually started another long reply using time and ideas as a basis, but I realized…it doesn't matter what I say. I've said it all before. Others who are much more learned, and in tune with the spirit than me have also tried. No matter what any of us say, unless you are standing in the presence of God, you will not believe any of it. I can’t help you with this one. You are the only one who can. I’m truly sorry. I do hope someone comes along who will have what it takes to answer your questions to your satisfaction.

texanomaly:


I wish I had answers that would satisfy you. Honestly I wish I did. You are right. Many atrocities have been perpetrated in the name of faith and spirituality. There is so much of it, in fact, that religion has become a joke, and or disappointment to many people. I actually started another long reply using time and ideas as a basis, but I realized…it doesn't matter what I say. I've said it all before. Others who are much more learned, and in tune with the spirit than me have also tried. No matter what any of us say, unless you are standing in the presence of God, you will not believe any of it. I can’t help you with this one. You are the only one who can. I’m truly sorry. I do hope someone comes along who will have what it takes to answer your questions to your satisfaction.

I understand you but try to collect as much spiritual perspectives as possible.

Kay17:

Equally, a woman with ectopic pregnancy can do "work" by merely stepping into a church OR buying a bible OR by praying without going to the hospital to seek for expert medical advice, right? These are not purposeless questions rather they are directed to clarify your true position on the use of miracles by Christians.

if God asked her to do that. He asked Peter to step out, remember?

Image123:

if God asked her to do that. He asked Peter to step out, remember?

Only when God asks of you to do work, right?

Image123:

if God asked her to do that.

Has God, by any chance, ever asked you to do something before?

Kay17:

Only when God asks of you to do work, right?

Yes. i doubt you know what you ask though.

Weah96:

Has God, by any chance, ever asked you to do something before?

Yes. He's even asking you to repent oh.