Your last statement about devilish ambition is apt for those who demonise pastors to justify their own pseudo-spirituality.

On the contrary it is more apt for those who twist the word of God to de-fraud his children. It is also apt for those who defend this evil them as well.

Both of u need not to quote me wrong. My words are clear enough to interpret itself.
But one thing is sure, a good and sincere Bible Student knows who is saying the truth between the two of you.
Thank God we all have The Bible.

solosimple:

Both of u need not to quote me wrong. My words are clear enough to interpret itself.
But one thing is sure, a good and sincere Bible Student knows who is saying the truth between the two of you.
Thank God we all have The Bible.

You need to be clearer than that, solo. This is ambiguous, and risks being misquoted and misunderstood again.

solo,you better keep your keep your kool,cos pilgrim here will not reason with you,if she(he)believe in tithes then pilgrim can pay tithe,i have decided not to join issues with her(him)again,and i will appreciate if kunle does same,cos she(he)is here to confuse people.shikena

segyemaro:

solo,you better keep your keep your kool,cos pilgrim here will not reason with you,if she(he)believe in tithes then pilgrim can pay tithe,i have decided not to join issues with her(him)again,and i will appreciate if kunle does same,cos she(he)is here to confuse people.shikena

@segyemaro,

What is the substance of your accusations, really? That someone "will not reason with you" and also is "here to confuse people" - why are those the typical attitudes of anti-tithers? Why do you guys start out accusing other believers simply because your anti-tithing arguments cannot be defended calmly or intelligently, and is fast collapsing upon you? Please tell me: why is it that anti-tithers cannot discuss this subject until they have quickly turned to ad hominems, accuse others, duck questions, claim things they cannot defend, get vexed and resort to cheap vituperation. . . just to argue their anti-tithing theology?

You have chosen to not tithe, and that's okay. Nobody here is forcing you to do otherwise. Tithers who choose to do so cheerfully, have not resorted to slurring your person just because you disdain tithing. Also, they are not given to castigating "pastors" just because of this subject. You don't have to feel so badly and then quickly abandon the discussion so as to now focus on a personal campaign against other people who choose to tithe or encourage it in their teaching or congregations. The more you demonstrate this unfortunate attitude of resorting to slurs, the more you defeat and cheapen your cause.

pilgrim.1:

@segyemaro,

What is the substance of your accusations, really? That someone "will not reason with you" and also is "here to confuse people" - why are those the typical attitudes of anti-tithers? Why do you guys start out accusing other believers simply because your anti-tithing arguments cannot be defended calmly or intelligently, and is fast collapsing upon you? Please tell me: why is it that anti-tithers cannot discuss this subject until they have quickly turned to ad hominems, accuse others, duck questions, claim things they cannot defend, get vexed and resort to cheap vituperation. . . just to argue their anti-tithing theology?

You have chosen to not tithe, and that's okay. Nobody here is forcing you to do otherwise. Tithers who choose to do so cheerfully, have not resorted to slurring your person just because you disdain tithing. Also, they are not given to castigating "pastors" just because of this subject. You don't have to feel so badly and then quickly abandon the discussion so as to now focus on a personal campaign against other people who choose to tithe or encourage it in their teaching or congregations. The more you demonstrate this unfortunate attitude of resorting to slurs, the more you defeat and cheapen your cause.

You are the most confused person on this site ,you acknowlege the fact that tithing(10%) is not compulsory yet you criticize people who condemn preachers of compulsory tithing.Please if I may ask on which side of the divide are you?
By the way who told you anti-tithing arguments are collapsing? On the contrary more people are being made to know the truth about giving in the church.I can assure you that I won't personally stop preaching against this heretic and criminal practise until the day I breathe my last.

I would give in my very best to expose these fraudsters masquareding as men of God,even when I know that they will receive their just reward I would try my best to free as many people as I can from this bondage.

@chukwudi44,

chukwudi44:

You are the most confused person on this site ,you acknowlege the fact that tithing(10%) is not compulsory yet you criticize people who condemn preachers of compulsory tithing.Please if I may ask on which side of the divide are you?

First, I'm not confused; and I hope we can discuss without these unnecessary personal attacks. If you cannot help yourself until you slur someone, please let me know: I usually like to give enough warning about this unhealthy attitude in discussions before I treat such rascality with a no-nonsense response.

However, I indeed have argued that tithing (not just 10%) is not "compulsory" or "mandatory" - infact, my position is simply that anti-tithers and others should not argue to make any type of giving a matter of what is mandatory to any Christian.

Yet, my critique is not on people who condemn preachers of "compulsory tithing". Infact, I do not take the position of "condemning" people, but rather that we share our persuasions and understandings in a healthy manner. For all that, what I oppose is false spirituality that is both ignorant and malicious. One cannot keep castigating "pastors" repeatedly just because they don't like tithing, and then come back to say it is "perfectly okay" for Christians to tithe from their income. The typical anti-tithing mantra so far has been that "pastors" (without distinguishing anyone) who preach 'tithes' must by default be a "thief, criminal, etc". Many of us know very Godly pastors who teach tithes to their congregations and their lives witness to their Godliness; we also know of many Churches who preach tithes without making it a "compulsory" burden upon their members. If we cared at all, we cannot as Christians let such anti-tithers' demonizing of "pastors" in such a manner as if any and all 'pastors' who mention tithes are "criminals"! If you have no heart to see that such an attitude is unhealthy, it's a wonder anyone should take you seriously.

chukwudi44:

By the way who told you anti-tithing arguments are collapsing?

Is it not self-evident? I wonder how it is that many questions that anti-tithers have asked have been well-addressed; but anti-tithers rarely ever provide answers to questions offered them. Second, who's always slurring people as the first resort simply because their anti-tithing arguments are waning? How many of your own anti-tithing arguments have stood up with a spine?

chukwudi44:

On the contrary more people are being made to know the truth about giving in the church.

Oh, you're losing it now, hehe. .   We're very aware of giving in the church; go ask anti-tithers why they have huge problems about GIVING IN THE CHURCH!  You make a very weak appeal here, chukwudi44.

chukwudi44:

I can assure you that I won't personally stop preaching against this heretic and criminal practise until the day I breathe my last.

So, what really is the "heretic and criminal practice" - the tithes, or your version of misplaced arguments? Tell me, please: why is tithing such a bane to you personally? You want to campaign against this subject. . . to your "last breath", I wish you well. Is it worth your life insurance preaching against tithes? Is it?

chukwudi44:

I would give in my very best to expose these fraudsters masquareding as men of God,even when I know that they will receive their just reward I would try my best to free as many people as I can from this bondage.

Fraudsters abound on either side - and making false statements against tithers is also a fraud, did you know? What is the 'bondage' you're killing yourself over? Perhaps it never occurs to you that your own misplaced arguments and joining a bandwagon to slur other people does not make you any closer to being a 'man-of-God'. I know - the temptation to demonize those who do not belong to your camp is irrestible, it often is so for the anti-tithers. No genuine man of God who preaches tithe should see your life ambition as of any consequence. Tara.

God bless you chukwudi

pilgrim,you amaze me alot

pilgrim.1:


Is it not self-evident? I wonder how it is that many questions that anti-tithers have asked have been well-addressed; but anti-tithers rarely ever provide answers to questions offered them. Second, who's always slurring people as the first resort simply because their anti-tithing arguments are waning? How many of your own anti-tithing arguments have stood up with a spine?

On the contrary all the evidence that we have been able to garner suggests that the type of tithing[Compulsary 10% of earnings to be paid to the church] being preahed by most scammers pastors today has no biblical basis. We have asked you several questions on tithing and showed you how the bible defines tithes from several scripturse yet you stick to your delusions and resort to twisting the bible further to confuse readers of all the various threads you have been ranting on all in an effort to justify this scam. But i think your efforts are being wasted cos the word is already out and some of us are dedicated to sharing this truth to other christians till the day we breath our last breath. The weight of scriptural evidence is against tithing as it is practised today and we only need to show poeple with least bit of grey matter in their heads before they see the light of truth whilst you continue to fight your loosing battle.

KunleOshob:

On the contrary all the evidence that we have been able to garner suggests that the type of tithing[Compulsary 10% of earnings to be paid to the church] being preahed by most scammers pastors today has no biblical basis. We have asked you several questions on tithing and showed you how the bible defines tithes from several scripturse yet you stick to your delusions and resort to twisting the bible further to confuse readers of all the various threads you have been ranting on all in an effort to justify this scam. But i think your efforts are being wasted cos the word is already out and some of us are dedicated to sharing this truth to other christians till the day we breath our last breath. The weight of scriptural evidence is against tithing as it is practised today and we only need to show poeple with least bit of grey matter in their heads before they see the light of truth whilst you continue to fight your loosing battle.

@KunleOshob,

I have no delusions, and I think using that antic so often cheapens your arguments. I've made clear that dialogue is more enabling, and if you can't address an issue until you draw my similar response, I may oblige you and dare any religious sanctimonious adulator to cough up later.

You asked questions - I answered them all. I also offered you and your ilk a few questions, which you either are too shy to answer or simply have no clues. Further, I pointed out my persuasions from well-articulated sources: Scripture, the arguements of anti-tithers themselves, and authentic sources of Jewish scholars. Surprising that in none of these instances have you or any one of your drummers ever been bold enough to show intelligently how my answers were flawed. All you do is repeat you slurs about others being deluded, etc. How have you grown spiritually thereby?

One observation though: if you read the points I derived from your favoured anti-tithers as delusional, it won't surprise me. I quoted them frequently to show that they have often given various percentages to the term 'tithe' in the Bible. I've shown this in so many instances - even showing how John MacArthur bellowed that your "10% is NOT correct!" I didn't put words into their mouths - that's why I left the links. Are they also delusional in their assertions? Oh, the comedy of it all! I often notice that when the noise anti-tithers have made suddenly begin to turn against them, they abandon their own arguments and resort to ad hominems: that is how they typically resolve a dialogue. Well done again.

pilgrim.1:


You asked questions - I answered them all. I also offered you and your ilk a few questions, which you either are too shy to answer or simply have no clues. Further, I pointed out my persuasions from well-articulated sources: Scripture, the arguements of anti-tithers themselves, and authentic sources of Jewish scholars. Surprising that in none of these instances have you or any one of your drummers ever been bold enough to show intelligently how my answers were flawed. All you do is repeat you slurs about others being deluded, etc. How have you grown spiritually thereby?

On the contrary you hardly ever answer questions you are asked, you would rather resort to running round in circles and confusing issues. At best you resort to twisting scriptures or quoting it out of context and i can say with fear of being controverted that i have on several occasions pointed out to you instances were you twisted scripture or quoted it out of context[ A good example is 2 corinthians9:7 which taught on giving to the needy which you twisted to meaning giving to the church] That apart i am still waiting for you to show me from the scriptures were tithing was described as a percentage of income or were chrisitans were instructed to tithes.

KunleOshob:

On the contrary you hardly ever answer questions you are asked, you would rather resort to running round in circles and confusing issues. At best you resort to twisting scriptures or quoting it out of context and i can say with fear of being controverted that i have on several occasions pointed out to you instances were you twisted scripture or quoted it out of context[ A good example is 2 corinthians9:7 which taught on giving to the needy which you twisted to meaning giving to the church] That apart i am still waiting for you to show me from the scriptures were tithing was described as a percentage of income or were chrisitans were instructed to tithes.

I don hear. Are you satisfied or what have you gained from repeating your slurs and yet addressed nothing in my post? You can accuse from now till thy kingdom come, what have you ever tried to point out that is intelligent enough to uplift you and your noise makers?

pilgrim.1:

I don hear. Are you satisfied or what have you gained from repeating your slurs and yet addressed nothing in my post? You can accuse from now till thy kingdom come, what have you ever tried to point out that is intelligent enough to uplift you and your noise makers?

On the contrary me and "other noise makers" have been correcting that the erronous belief that christian giving should be directed at church instituitions and ministers and teaching as christ and the apostles taught that christian giving is principally about giving to the poor and the less priviledge amongst us.

KunleOshob:

On the contrary me and "other noise makers" have been correcting that the erronous belief that christian giving should be directed at church instituitions and ministers and teaching as christ and the apostles taught that christian giving is principally about giving to the poor and the less priviledge amongst us.

And that is grounds enough to continue your slurs instead of discussing?

Well those who deliberately twist the scriptures deserve to be slurred. The bible describes such people as greedy and fraudulent in jeremiah 8:8-10. If the bible can slur such people then why not? i am only emulating what i read in the bible. The only solution is for all blasphemers to repent from their evil and manipulative ways.

KunleOshob:

Well those who deliberately twist the scriptures deserve to be slurred. The bible describes such people as greedy and fraudulent in jeremiah 8:8-10. If the bible can slur such people then why not? i am only emulating what i read in the bible. The only solution is for all blasphemers to repent from their evil and manipulative ways.

And that is grounds enough to continue your slurs instead of discussing?

when i was growing up,my dad told me that there use to be a woman in a neighbours compound that has fought with eventually everybody in the compound,i was now blaming the other women in the compound of constantly quarrel with her,but my dad scolded me and said,for one person to quarrel with the other tenants in the compound,then she nust be the bad one.Pilgrim you are the only one supporting this tithe scam,its obvious you must either be benefiting from it or you are a pastos wife,pilgrims cant you see the handwritting on the wall that you have since lost this battle?Tithe is not encouraged in the new testament,even in the old testament were its talked on,people were to eat their tithe with their family and also to the poor,so what are you trying to prove,or have you written your own version of the bible?

@omoruyilag,

omoruyilag:

when i was growing up,my dad told me that there use to be a woman in a neighbours compound that has fought with eventually everybody in the compound,i was now blaming the other women in the compound of constantly quarrel with her,but my dad scolded me and said,for one person to quarrel with the other tenants in the compound,then she nust be the bad one.Pilgrim you are the only one supporting this tithe scam,its obvious you must either be benefiting from it or you are a pastos wife,pilgrims cant you see the handwritting on the wall that you have since lost this battle?Tithe is not encouraged in the new testament,even in the old testament were its talked on,people were to eat their tithe with their family and also to the poor,so what are you trying to prove,or have you written your own version of the bible?

Thank you for assuming too much by jumping into a thread and starting out typically sounding like a loser. I have not quarreled with you nor with everybody in Nairaland - what is the substance in making that charge?

Second, I'm not any of the things you had alleged. When I discuss this subject, I keep to the topic itself, not start out attacking anybody. I went so far to appeal so many times that we can discuss without slurs, again and again I made that point clear. If you can't see this, no wahala - but I'm not anyone of the 'pastors's wife' you want to force into my life.

Third, please be honest enough to show where I have tried to support a "scam". If you cannot show that, you're of little consequence and another noise maker. Tara.

Kunle and Omoruyi, una do well oooooo


I like the woman fighting with everyone analogy a lot, thank God I am not the only one who feels this way about their discredited scam. These are the same folks that hobnob with Nigeria's political establishment, there is not a Daniel, Elijah, etc among them. Pilgrim seems to be on NL to protect the "family business"  

ogajim:

Kunle and Omoruyi, una do well oooooo


I like the woman fighting with everyone analogy a lot, thank God I am not the only one who feels this way about their discredited scam. These are the same folks that hobnob with Nigeria's political establishment, there is not a Daniel, Elijah, etc among them. Pilgrim seems to be on NL to protect the "family business"

Again, thank you. Have you finished the back-patting?

omoruyilag:

when i was growing up,my dad told me that there use to be a woman in a neighbours compound that has fought with eventually everybody in the compound,i was now blaming the other women in the compound of constantly quarrel with her,but my dad scolded me and said,for one person to quarrel with the other tenants in the compound,then she nust be the bad one.Pilgrim you are the only one supporting this tithe scam,its obvious you must either be benefiting from it or you are a pastos wife,pilgrims cant you see the handwritting on the wall that you have since lost this battle?Tithe is not encouraged in the new testament,even in the old testament were its talked on,people were to eat their tithe with their family and also to the poor,so what are you trying to prove,or have you written your own version of the bible?

see pilgrim.1 new comers to this thread are already seeing the emptiness in your posts despite the tonnes of mumbo jumbo you post in trying to justify the scam.

KunleOshob:

see pilgrim.1 new comers to this thread are already seeing the emptiness in your posts despite the tonnes of mumbo jumbo you post in trying to justify the scam.

Please, those so-called "new comers" should be honest enough to show where I supported their accusations. Failing to do so, they are of no consequence.

ogajim:

Kunle and Omoruyi, una do well oooooo


I like the woman fighting with everyone analogy a lot, thank God I am not the only one who feels this way about their discredited scam. These are the same folks that hobnob with Nigeria's political establishment, there is not a Daniel, Elijah, etc among them. Pilgrim seems to be on NL to protect the "family business"  

gbam

omoruyilag:

gbam

omoruyi, please answer if you can:

pilgrim.1:

@omoruyilag,

Third, please be honest enough to show where I have tried to support a "scam". If you cannot show that, you're of little consequence and another noise maker. Tara.

"Conscience nurtured by truth" I believe is Guardian's motto and was credited to Othman Dan Fodio,
Why can't folks who are Christians follow this simple motto?

2 Corinthians 4:18 (King James Version)

18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

All these big buildings that require tithes to maintain, I am yet to see a single scriptural verse to support the need for these actions, giving should come from the heart and not prompt/prodding/pleading/milking of the congregation which like a lot of other things didn't start in Nigeria but we are now taking it to new levels like we do with the other stuff.

pilgrims,the pikin wey say him mama nor go sleep,him too nor go sleep,abi?

kenny888:

pilgrims,the pikin wey say him mama nor go sleep,him too nor go sleep,abi?

Na so now. . Since the best that these 'pikins' can do is constantly slur others and abandon their own arguments, would it surprise you.

hmmmmmmn pilgrim!!!!!!

Kenny,e be like say u never see were mama beat pikin and make him to kneel down, mama go enter bedroom go sleep.

segyemaro:

Kenny,e be like say u never see were mama beat pikin and make him to kneel down, mama go enter bedroom go sleep.

Hmm. . I hope that didn't happen to you sha!

Lol, enjoy the week O! God bless you throughout your endeavours.

Wow! I cant stop laughing aving read thru d entertaining comments here and the summary is 'giving to church-pastors- should be discouraged' can u see how d confused poster started with thanksgiving offering and after loosing steam there delves to tithe-anoda form of giving giving is not by force if u r coerced to give then u r grade 1 slowpoke, nobody force u 2 pay tithe if u believe ur own bible is against it(afterall we all av our different undastanding of bible) and let it work for those that believe. Very soon una go soon delete giving 2 d poor 2 in d bible so that there will be no giving of any kind in churches again.

"Tiny Tim",

No one said they were being forced to give but that "pastors" and "deacons" routinely "shame" "coerce" people into falling for their scam using Malachi (addressed to the Levitical tithe collectors by the way) to provide a guilt feeling among the people to the extend they spend what they didn't plan on, no wonder some of the "churches" get bounced checks if you ask me. Freewill offering should be from the heart not because of what someone misreads in the Bible.
It can be any % and yes you can decide to use some of that to bless people you feel are in need, why do "rich" folks get the "best seat" in these business enterprises ( I mean church)? They tell you to leave Nigeria's problem to God and that they don't have to criticize those in power and you wonder if it the fear that those in power might impose taxes on them, I pray for Nigeria!