brocab:
You really don't know much about Steve Ray-now do you? Steve Ray taught studies on evangelization, he always had people in his home, he welcome the Mormons and Jehovah's Witness missionaries, Atheists, New-agers, he said the Catholics were always a target for evangelism, he knew the best arguments to unleash Bible verses on anyone of them. He said: Catholics were usually pretty easy to pick off the tree. They didn't know the Bible and from our perspective had no idea how to get saved. He said: the Catholic's prayed to Mary instead of Jesus, got to heaven by works instead of faith, followed tradition instead of the Bible — in everything they were upside down.
The above story-doesn't sound the way you have labeled this man, if God is in the picture, He can use this, and turn Steve Ray around for God's kingdom, Steve Ray knew the ins and out's about the Catholic's, he witness to them, and all of a sudden he joins them?
Something doesn't add up-either God had sent Steve Ray into the Catholic Church to win souls, or Steve Ray didn't know God in the first place.
Never estimate God, if He is in this Picture, then-Steve Ray maybe the next Martin Luther returning from the dead.
This is what Jesus said: {2 Thessalonians 2:1-3} Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first.
Maybe God's using Steve Ray to help lead the Catholic's out of slavery-never estimate God-He can, and He will, use those who are willing.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first. God is separating His sheep away from the wolves, the tares from the wheat, and the strong from the weak-first Judgement day starts within the Church.
But if God isn't in this picture concerning Steve Ray, then you have nothing to worry about, if Christ was really on this mans heart-it's almost impossible to run off in the other direction. And if this guy left God because he believes bowing down to Mary-will save his soul-then he was never a born again saved believer in the first place.

brocab:

Here you go again, getting yourself all worked up over nothing, nasty is your game, don't expect the darkness that is in you, to mix with the light that is in me, you haven't yet come up with anything positive since we have started these conversions, if you were expecting me to follow suit with you, don't expect the unexpected.
Trying to learn something from you is difficult, every time I think you may have something, you close it down, you change and blame Martin Luther? If you really want me to listen to you, then come up with something positive, directing me to Catholic sites-doesn't produce any evidence that actually lines up with any of the subjects we are focusing on.
Until you can come up with some evidence to prove your Church really exist, and it lines up with the Word of God-then you and I haven't anything in common-and you are either talking through your backside-or you haven't the slightest idea-which direction you need to go and find the truth..So far, you haven't produced any truth on any subject you have produced..

9inches:
Listen to the rest of his speech to see why he became Catholic and how he found out it's the One True Church and how protestant teaching doesn't add up.

9inches:
(Galatians 1:18) There is no Scriptural evidence of independent local churches.
The Catholic Church is the only church founded by Christ personally. Every other church traces its lineage back to a mere human person such as Martin Luther or John Wesley. The Catholic Church can trace its lineage back to Jesus Christ who appointed St. Peter as the first pope. This line of popes has continued unbroken for almost 2,000 years.

9inches:
The early Church was structured in a hierarchical manner as it is today. We see in Acts, chapter 15 how the apostles and the elders came together under the leadership of St. Peter to decide the question of what was required of Gentiles. We also see how St. Peter was regarded as the head of the Church when St. Paul, "Went up to Jerusalem to confer with Kephas [Peter] and remained with him fifteen days." (Galatians 1:18) There is no Scriptural evidence of independent local churches.

The Catholic Church is the only church founded by Christ personally. Every other church traces its lineage back to a mere human person such as Martin Luther or John Wesley. The Catholic Church can trace its lineage back to Jesus Christ who appointed St. Peter as the first pope. This line of popes has continued unbroken for almost 2,000 years.

God rules, instructs and sanctifies His people through His Church. Under her teaching office, the Catholic Church preserves the Word of God. She is the custodian, keeper, dispenser and interpreter of teachings of Christ. And she accomplishes this under the protection of the Holy Spirit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTBR3LcoXx0

brocab:
I did listen 'why he returned back to the Catholic Church, But 'you aren't listening, why he returned back to the Catholic Church? He was brought up in a family of protestants, he become a pastor, he witnessed to those outside the square-yes he made all the right moves-but deep down he knew he never believed in the scriptures.

brocab:
One of the most significant events recorded in the Bible happened on the Day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit came down to permanently indwell the disciples, and the church age began.
The New Testament does give the description of the events:
Now when the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance {Acts 2:1-4}
{Acts 2:1} literally reads, "As the Day of Pentecost was being fulfilled." What was fulfilled was the prophecy given by both Jesus and John the Baptist concerning the coming of the Holy Spirit.
John had earlier said of Jesus: I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after Me is mightier than I" He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire {Matthew 3:11}
Now it was ten days before Pentecost Jesus reiterated the prediction. For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now {Acts 1:5}
The coming of the Holy Spirit was also to give power to the believers: But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth {Acts 1:8}
When Pentecost occurred, the Holy Spirit came as promised, baptizing the believers into Christ and giving them power to be His witnesses.
Now the beginning Of The Church Age: Pentecost was also the birthday of the church. The Old Testament period of law was concluded and a new era began.
Those who believe in Jesus as Messiah during this present age become part of the body (or bride) of Christ known as the church. The church age began at Pentecost and will conclude when Christ comes back for His own.
The Day of Pentecost also witnessed signs which followed the coming of the Holy Spirit. As Jesus had predicted those who believed spoke with new tongues: And these signs shall follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues
{Mark 16:17}
The Day of Pentecost also saw the first converts to the Christian church. When Simon Peter delivered his sermon proclaiming that Christ had risen, some three thousand people became converted.
Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them {Acts 2:41}
So where does the Catholic Church fit in all this: the Catholic Church was never called the day of Pentecost?

And Like you said: There is no Scriptural evidence of independent local churches. "Just like the Catholic Church..

9inches:

That One Church mentioned in the bible was later called "Catholic" mean "according to (kata-) the whole (holos)," or more colloquially, "universal." At the beginning of the second century, we find in the letters of Ignatius the first surviving use of the term "Catholic" in reference to the Church. The name was given to differentiate the Church from the heretics of that time who disavowed that Jesus was a material being who actually suffered and died, saying instead that "he only seemed to suffer".

Jesus instituted one church. The church which St. Peter headed.

9inches:
@bolded, he didn't say that.

brocab:
Steve Ray did say that: but your not listening..

brocab:
You said: all this without the evidence..
Jesus instituted His Church on the Words-that Peter said from God, "the Word of God didn't come from Peter's mouth unless God directed him to say it. Peter was led by the Spirit of God.
A woman in the crowd said: bless art the women that nursed you, Jesus said: bless art they, that preach the Word of God and obey it.
So because the Catholic Church disbelieves the words Peter spoke, and not what God spoke through Peter-then the Catholic Church is built on heresy..

9inches:


Spotless Bride of Christ
Christ nourishes and cherishes His church (Ephesians 5:29).

Ephesians 5:23-27
"For the husband is head of the wife, just as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

Marriage is one of the biblical metaphors used to describe the covenant relationship between God and his people; cf. Hos 2:16–22; Is 54:5–6; 62:5; Ez 16:6–14

Paul quotes Genesis to make his point, thus: "'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' (Genesis 2:24). This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church."

This is why feminine gender pronouns "she" and "her" is used for the Church.

brocab:
Then if you believe the head of the Church is Christ-and you believe the Church is the people-the bride of Christ, Then why do you believe the church is made of brick and mortar?

9inches:
@bolded, that's a fig of your imagination. Is that what you've been believing since? You're equating human being to brick and mortar.

9inches:

He did not say that, quote what he said. His old belief of sola scriptura was what he found out as problematic. The base point was that he met a good Catholic and the errors and heresies in his protest_ant doctrine was exposed!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGIIPFQ1VJw

brocab:
Not exactly a fig of my imagination.
By your own imagination you have laid the Mother Catholic Church at my feet claiming-Jesus had began her through Peter! "And through this ordeal you have quoted from the beginning she/her Church made of brick and mortar, is the body of the Church.
This was the first time you had actually mentioned the bride of Christ, are actually people...
But let me say: praise the Lord forevermore-I pray-someday, I wrote someday, you will at least try to understand where the Spirit reins in us all who have chosen to believe.
{Romans 8:9} The Spirit Lives in You.
{1 Corinthians 6:19} What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
So where is the Church of Christ-that's right He reins in each of us, "which means the Catholic Church is not the beginning Church.. "All authority was given to Christ-not Peter..
Sadly many people are taught the church is a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people.
It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building.
{Romans 16:5} says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

9inches:

The church is the mystical body of Christ. If you think or call Christ's body brick and mortar, that's your own cup of tea. Your mention of it clearly shows that's what is in your mind and you have yourself to blame for heresy.

brocab:
Lizzie {9 inches} you aren't any different to Steve Ray-we can go with this all day long, but if you knew Christ-like Steve Ray believed he did, he would have realised we belong to God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error..
Truthfully speaking-since I had become a believer in Christ-I believe His every Word-everything about Christ rest upon my heart, soul and mind.
We can debate until the sun go's down-many have come and gone-trying, but the only problem with that, is, the Spirit who is in me, is greater then he who is in the world. {1 John 4:4}

brocab:
This is a change from you, have you run out of things to say? It's been like this all along with you, The Catholic Church is more to you, then it does with Christ!
It isn't worth getting yourself all worked up about it, and playing the blame game "accept it finely you have agreed with the Word of God, praise the Lord. Liz..

9inches:


Over 33,000 denominations of Christianity make same claim as you. When as many churches as 33,000 differ in their interpretation of the Word of God, it can only come down to 2 things:

Either
1. ONE of them is correct and the rest is wrong, or

2. NONE of them is correct.

Open your eyes and most importantly your mind and see what people like Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Lizzie Reezay and many others have realized in their quest to discover the absolute TRUTH. You can see from their demeanor how happy and relaxed and peaceful they feel being back HOME after living in separation from the Body of Christ. It always feels good being home. Nothing like home.

brocab:
So what's the name of the Home Church you are preferring too?

9inches:
If it takes only the Spirit in you to read and understand the bible, why are there bible schools? If Christianity is 'easy' to understand, why do people study theology? Use your God-given brain and think!

9inches:
If it takes only the Spirit in you to read and understand the bible, why are there bible schools?

9inches:
It's good you now found out the church is not what you alluded it is. Your conscience is judging you right now for committing heresy, isn't it? You want to blame me for calling you out, go ahead but it's for your own good I did that, so that you cast such thinking from your mind. The Lord sees the heart. He knows exactly what you believe even if you are saying verbally a different thing for the sake of argument. It's better you convey what is in your mind so that it could be corrected if it's the wrong thing. As they say, Sunshine is the best disinfectant. So lay it all out, ask ask sincere questions, stand corrected, learn and grow in knowledge. Don't let willful ignorance block your way to the objective TRUTH.

If it takes only the Spirit in you to read and understand the bible, why are there bible schools? If Christianity is 'easy' to understand, why do people study theology? Use your God-given brain and think!

9inches:
The One Church others separated from. You can figure that out.

brocab:
It's good you now see the truth. And realise, its not about the Catholic Church, its about the body of believers, these are the bride of Christ.

The Lord does see the heart, but He also knows His own, and His own knows Him, you don't know Him, because you don't follow Him.
You focus on tradition Church knowledge only, but you don't focus on Christ, you haven't received the Spirit to know "He teaches us through the Word of God, most people can read-but without the Spirit of God teaching us His Word, then the bible is just a book.
But I assure you, the bible is quite Spiritual, and when the Spirit of the Lord shows you the Word of God in Spirit and in truth, the Word of God is already at Work in You! "By their fruit, we will know them, "Already I know you, and the Word of God does not flow out from your mouth.
What does Paul say In {Ephesians 6:17–18} “Take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, praying at all times in the Spirit.”
{1 Corinthians 2:10} But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

Then why does God say this:{2 Timothy 3:16–17} All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Jesus said: one must be born again before he can enter into the Kingdom of God, in your case, you had been born into the Catholic Church, baptised as an infant, taught the traditions of men, and never ever coming into the knowledge of the truth, and for anybody who had returned back to the Catholic Church-worshipping that same spirit-praying to Mary and the saints to save them, then these men and women were never with Christ in the first place.

9inches:
Wrong! The body of believers = the Church = the bride of Christ. Christ promised His Holy Spirit to His Church, and to remain with them till the end of time.

9inches:
If it takes only the Spirit in you to read and understand the bible, why are there bible schools? If Christianity is 'easy' to understand, why do people study theology? Use your God-given brain and think!

9inches:
Wrong! The body of believers = the Church = the bride of Christ.


There's no way for you to determine who knows God and who does not since you've been spewing heresy after heresy on here. You won't stop massacring the Scripture.

Christ promised His Holy Spirit to His Church, and to remain with them till the end of time. It's a solid promise, guaranteed, signed and sealed! If you're not among the body of believers,His Church... I'm sorry for you.


@bolded, those are exactly what I'm doing here - teaching, reproofing, correcting and trying to train you but you are chose to be willfully ignorant.You are hearkening your heart to the Word of God and the traditions of the Apostles and early Christians, instead you chose to believe in Martin Luther's tradition of mutilating the Word of God in a rebellious manner.

brocab:
You don't know the answer, because you haven't got Christ in you.

brocab:
Jesus said: by their fruit we will know them-I have read your fruit, and you don't know God-you don't understand the Spirit of God..

9inches:
You're deflecting with your quote. You're ignoring the truth in your face. Jesus instituted one Church only. If you don't belong and chose to remain outside His church, it means you refused to be part of the body of Christ.

9inches:
Story! You are attempting to claim Christ but you don't know Him. Keep on spewing heresy. Even Martin Luther did not spout the rubbish you have spouted here so far in attempt to keep your man-made sola scriptura doctrine alive.

9inches:
You're deflecting with your quote. You're ignoring the truth in your face. Jesus instituted one Church only. If you don't belong and chose to remain outside His church, it means you refused to be part of the body of Christ.

brocab:
I had asked you earlier to renounce which Church, and still you have refused to answer it. What's the name of the Church?