Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,194,271 members, 7,954,055 topics. Date: Friday, 20 September 2024 at 11:34 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia (19635 Views)
104 Christians Convert To Islam In Delta State. See Photos / 136 Christians Convert To Islam In Kwara State / Renouncing My Christian Faith (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by HaneefahRN(f): 7:07am On Nov 23, 2015 |
true2god:I'll answer u as I deem fit, starting from ur last paragraph, I never used Christian doctries to validate anything cos it seems u're always on the defensive abt that. It wldn't even make sense since it's 2 different religions. I only used it to bring up a reason one or more of these hadiths cld av been fabricated wt made up chains in the 3rd generation since many of the early hadith scholars seemed to be unaware of these penalties. Or it cld be due to hypocrisy practised by some apostates during the time of the Prophet, in wc some Jews pretended to join Islam and be Muslims, then spread falsehood abt Islam, or leave the religion in such a way to shake the faith of new converts. Even at that no solid evidence can be given for killing for mere apostasy. There is a Sahih hadith abt a bedouin that apostated and had nothing done to him. And a man who the Prophet had invited to Islam, and he said he disliked, the prophet replied 'Even if ye dislike it'. He didn't coerce him to join Islam. I don't know abt the killing of witches in Saudi u claim. I know well abt the abrogations, bt the verse regarding 'no compulsion in religion' was never abrogated and contratry to ur claims were revealed in Medina where Muslims had a strong hold and supported with many similar verses of the Quran. The verses regarding killing, were revealed during war, when the Muslims were at war wt the pagans who were opperessing them or who initiated war against them. Many other verses were revealed pertaining to apostasy in the Quran (refer to former posts) and in all no mention of a death penalty was mentioned, there were even verses e.g. Q4:137, where Allah talked abt those tht blive then disblive and blive then dislike again and grow stubborn in denial of truth, that He will not forgive nor guide them. Surely, if there were a death penalty prescribed for apostasy by the Quran, the person wld av been killed the 1st time and wldn't even av a 2nd chance. I wldn't know why the scholars agreed wt an hadith that doesn't tally wt the verses of the Quran and from just a single isnad and av weaknesses for such a grave penalty, Walahu Alam. Notable scholars that do not support the death penalty and compulsion in religion are Maliki jurist Abul- Walid Al-Baji, Hanbali Jurist Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Qayyim, Shalbut, Tantawi. Who agreed death penalty is unwarranted unless the apostasy is accompanied by rebellion against the community. I av made my submission, u can chose to blive what u want. Whether for or against. I only answer u cos I want to and u seem level-headed and mature in relation, not cos I av or need to proof anything to u. Walahu Alam (And Allah knows best) 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Annunaki(m): 7:44am On Nov 23, 2015 |
Demmzy15: I see vooks has thoroughly dealth with your stupidity so it won't be necessary to comment on it anymore. Okponu buruku 1 Like |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by vooks: 8:09am On Nov 23, 2015 |
HaneefahRN: I said you are excused but since you opted to stay, I will proceed and learn. I don't insult, am just firm in instilling knowledge |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by vooks: 8:14am On Nov 23, 2015 |
HaneefahRN: Questions you may want to ponder 1. Is there consensus in Hanbali or Maliki school on punishment if at all for apostasy? 2. Define 'rebellion against community' |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Annunaki(m): 8:15am On Nov 23, 2015 |
dorox: Surprising is an understatement, I actually find it very appalling and I consider it an insult on the whole human race to describe such a vile vermin and scourge of the earth as the 1 Like |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by true2god: 8:30am On Nov 23, 2015 |
HaneefahRN:Quran 9:29, Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture (christiams and jews) - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. The above instruction was never a defensive but an offensive war\fight againt against the christians and Jews who didnt accept allahh as god and mohammed as his messenger. Compare it with 'there is no compulsion in religion' mantra (quran 2:256), there is a clear contradiction, the latter verse was abrogated for the former. Quran chapter 9 was completely revealed in medina and abrogated the peaceful mecca diplomatic verses (when islam was weak). Although the quran didnt specifically asked muslims to kill apostates, just as the quran did not ask muslims to pray 5 times a day, the hadith (which forms 90% of islamic laws and which act as interpreter for the quran) recommended death for apostates. The scholars who are opposed to death for apostates are in the minority and irrelevant in islamic authority and most are secular muslims who do not hold a conservative view of certain islam doctrines. Some of them grew up in the west, hence the change in orientations about life. All the 5 schools of islamic jurispundence cant be wrong on this matter, unless you are tacitly telling me that islam is false. Saudi still kill sorcerers till date, see links below: www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18503550 www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/29/indonesia-workers-in-saudi-arabia-are-on-trial-for-witchcraft-some-facing-the-death-penalty.html www.newsweek.com/beheadings-saudi-arabia-quickens-pace-321587 www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-has-beheaded-its-110th-prisoner-this-year-10439019.html These are the few reports that make international headlines, most of the beheading of sorcerers are done secretly. So dont judge the catholics church for killing witches some hundreds of years ago while saudi arabia is still doing the same till now. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by vooks: 8:44am On Nov 23, 2015 |
true2god: Have you noticed they are just regurgitating Islam apologetic sites without quoting specifically the dissenting jurists? You need to appreciate that the very term apostasy had evolved significantly over the years and was the cause of some intra-Muslim wars. Read this http://www.worldhistory.biz/sundries/30595-apostasy.html |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 8:51am On Nov 23, 2015 |
trapQ: you still haven't refuted the fact that Jesus ordered you to follow the law and not to break em |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 8:58am On Nov 23, 2015 |
vooks:lol do you understand English at all? fulfilled means to accomplish something not to put an expiry date to something |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 9:01am On Nov 23, 2015 |
vooks:if you're any wiser.. you will notice he said he's not here to abolish the law or put an end to it but to fulfilled it... so you must also follow the law |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 9:07am On Nov 23, 2015 |
true2god:please tell me the age of consent according to your bible? |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by true2god: 9:22am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr:I am not aware of the age of consent in the bible, i will check and revert. But i have never come accross any human being in the bible (or even in the secular world) who married a girl of 6 and started having sexual contact with her when she became 9 (just as mohammed did). |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Ayt27(m): 9:28am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr: No it wasn't stated in the quran(as far as I know of) It was stated in the hadith as narrated by aisha and we know Mohammed(pbuh) lost his wife kadijah when he was well above 50 years. The reason we don't apply this logic to Joseph and Mary is because like I said the apocryphal as agreed by numerous theological and Christian scholar as an UNRELIABLE source whereas the Hadith is reliable, except if the Hadith isn't reliable then I agree to being hypocritical. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Demmzy15(m): 9:53am On Nov 23, 2015 |
parisbookaddict:Now you've seen, give me the authentic video lemme watch. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Demmzy15(m): 9:55am On Nov 23, 2015 |
vooks:You no get work abi, give me the authentic original video of the sheikh speaking. I can't waste my time listening and translating, show me the hadith of the supposed thighing! |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Blackfire(m): 10:06am On Nov 23, 2015 |
true2god: *standing ovation* |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by AbuKhair(m): 10:18am On Nov 23, 2015 |
dorox:my bro tnx for d observation buh i think d post of my bro and Sister out dere could have give u more light on this.. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Nobody: 10:20am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr: Where did Jesus say we should follow the law of moses? Can you show me. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Annunaki(m): 10:46am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr: Are you literate at all or is it comprehension skills you lack cause the scripture he quoted there clearly showed Jesus changing the Law. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 10:57am On Nov 23, 2015 |
true2god:you're a liar.. I can list you many who raped three year olds... you're hypercritical |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 10:59am On Nov 23, 2015 |
gimakon:maybeyou're blind and can't read my post |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 11:00am On Nov 23, 2015 |
Ayt27:you do know some hadith hold more weight than others right |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by vooks: 11:07am On Nov 23, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Much as I hope and pray you are delivered from stupidity, I can't think for you |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by vooks: 11:08am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr: What is FULFILL? |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by vooks: 11:09am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr: What does 'accomplishing the Law' mean? It means every purpose of Torah is realized in Christ. Now, you may digress all your life but the truth is Islam is primitive and ret@rded and no amount of fingerpointing can change that 1 Like |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 11:20am On Nov 23, 2015 |
Annunaki:foolthe Scripture there shows nothing... it shows ... show me a verse where Jesus unequivocally told his followers not to follow the law, what he quoted there was just a bunch of verse about Jesus teaching his followers to love their enemy New International Version "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. King James Bible Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Darby Bible Translation Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil. World English Bible "Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. Young's Literal Translation 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil; Matthew 5:17 Parallel Commentary Clarke's Commentary on the Bible Think not that I am come to destroy the law - Do not imagine that I am come to violate the law καταλυσαι, from κατα, and λυω, I loose, violate, or dissolve - I am not come to make the law of none effect - to dissolve the connection which subsists between its several parts, or the obligation men are under to have their lives regulated by its moral precepts; nor am I come to dissolve the connecting reference it has to the good things promised. But I am come, πληρωσαι, to complete - to perfect its connection |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 11:22am On Nov 23, 2015 |
vooks:what do you mean by realized in Christ? and how does that stop you from following the law the way Jesus told you |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by madjnr: 11:24am On Nov 23, 2015 |
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Nobody: 11:25am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr: No, you are stupíd. Violent idiot. I wonder what an ímbecile like you is doing here. Go join your ISIS brothers. Anumanu. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by true2god: 11:26am On Nov 23, 2015 |
madjnr:Mention one person in the bible who sleep with a girl of nine (or lower). Just one person, from the bible. |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Nobody: 11:35am On Nov 23, 2015 |
true2god: You stop talking to that maniac. Someone that says 2 words without insulting someone. He's a Jihadist . |
Re: A Man Sentenced To Death For Renouncing Islam In Saudi Arabia by Ayt27(m): 11:54am On Nov 23, 2015 |
[quote author=madjnr post=40316434] you do know some hadith hold more weight than others right} And your point would be me to discard that part of the Hadith( a reliable source) completely because it doesn't hold enough weight. |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Reply)
God Raised My Dad Back To Life After Being Dead For 3 Hours / 6 Sneaky Lies The Devil Wants You To Believe / Poverty Is Why Many People Are Religious And Churchy - Reno Omokri
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 93 |