true2god:
Even if I dont agree with you completely I am impressed by your mature response. You quoted that the apostle of allahh said 'there is no compulsion in religion' so as to nullify the hadiths on killing of apostates but failed (or pretended) to accept the fact the these verse was revealed in mecca (when\where islam was weak and peaceful and was under persecution from meccan pagans). If you study the concept of abrogation of verses in the quran you will understand what i am talking about here.

While quran said 'there should be no compulsion in religion' (while mohammed was persecuted in mecca), he asked muslims to fight non-muslims in quran 9:29 (while he was strong in medina). Can you see any contradiction? Which revelation came last, the peaceful or the violent one? The violent one came last and abrogated peaceful one.

So you will see there is dynamics in islamic theology which mohammed companions understood perfectly and were recorded in the hadiths. All the four sunni schools and one shia school of jurispundence unanimously agreed that apostates should be killed. Are you saying that you understand hadith narrations and interpretations than the saudis and the iranians? We dont need to be too scholarly about it when the cradle of islam (saudi arabia and iran) had already put in practice their religious theology. You may not like the practice that does not mean you should deny, it is in your religious theology.

On killing of witches by the papal church in the middle ages, that is true, it is no longer practices by any church but the saudis are still beheading some alledged witches and sorcerers as i am typing now. So dont bring up past church doctrines to validate current islamic barbarism.

Demmzy15:

You see your life, when I was trashing you guys in that thread, you rats didn't show face o. But outside the forum you make nonsense mouth. Everything you ask for is on that thread, lemme just give you d link you asked for http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm The final note is Mary married 90years old Joseph when she was 12

HaneefahRN:

If throwing insults like a toddler throwing tantrums is ur idea of common sense, I don't want to know what ur stupidity wld entail

HaneefahRN:

Notable scholars that do not support the death penalty and compulsion in religion are Maliki jurist Abul- Walid Al-Baji, Hanbali Jurist Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Qayyim, Shalbut, Tantawi. Who agreed death penalty is unwarranted unless the apostasy is accompanied by rebellion against the community

dorox:
Muslims often describe Muhammed as the best human to ever walk this earth, which I find surprising given that he was a terrorist, a pedeophile and a psychopathic warlord.

HaneefahRN:

I'll answer u as I deem fit, starting from ur last paragraph, I never used Christian doctries to validate anything cos it seems u're always on the defensive abt that. It wldn't even make sense since it's 2 different religions. I only used it to bring up a reason one or more of these hadiths cld av been fabricated wt made up chains in the 3rd generation since many of the early hadith scholars seemed to be unaware of these penalties. Or it cld be due to hypocrisy practised by some apostates during the time of the Prophet, in wc some Jews pretended to join Islam and be Muslims, then spread falsehood abt Islam, or leave the religion in such a way to shake the faith of new converts. Even at that no solid evidence can be given for killing for mere apostasy. There is a Sahih hadith abt a bedouin that apostated and had nothing done to him. And a man who the Prophet had invited to Islam, and he said he disliked, the prophet replied 'Even if ye dislike it'. He didn't coerce him to join Islam. I don't know abt the killing of witches in Saudi u claim.
I know well abt the abrogations, bt the verse regarding 'no compulsion in religion' was never abrogated and contratry to ur claims were revealed in Medina where Muslims had a strong hold and supported with many similar verses of the Quran. The verses regarding killing, were revealed during war, when the Muslims were at war wt the pagans who were opperessing them or who initiated war against them. Many other verses were revealed pertaining to apostasy in the Quran (refer to former posts) and in all no mention of a death penalty was mentioned, there were even verses e.g. Q4:137, where Allah talked abt those tht blive then disblive and blive then dislike again and grow stubborn in denial of truth, that He will not forgive nor guide them.
Surely, if there were a death penalty prescribed for apostasy by the Quran, the person wld av been killed the 1st time and wldn't even av a 2nd chance.
I wldn't know why the scholars agreed wt an hadith that doesn't tally wt the verses of the Quran and from just a single isnad and av weaknesses for such a grave penalty, Walahu Alam.
Notable scholars that do not support the death penalty and compulsion in religion are Maliki jurist Abul- Walid Al-Baji, Hanbali Jurist Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Qayyim, Shalbut, Tantawi. Who agreed death penalty is unwarranted unless the apostasy is accompanied by rebellion against the community.
I av made my submission, u can chose to blive what u want. Whether for or against. I only answer u cos I want to and u seem level-headed and mature in relation, not cos I av or need to proof anything to u.
Walahu Alam (And Allah knows best)

true2god:

Although the quran didnt specifically asked muslims to kill apostates, just as the quran did not ask muslims to pray 5 times a day, the hadith (which forms 90% of islamic laws and which act as interpreter for the quran) recommended death for apostates. The scholars who are opposed to death for apostates are in the minority and irrelevant in islamic authority and most are secular muslims who do not hold a conservative view of certain islam doctrines. Some of them grew up in the west, hence the change in orientations about life.

All the 5 schools of islamic jurispundence cant be wrong on this matter, unless you are tacitly telling me that islam is false.

trapQ:
Typical of you Muslims. That was not the law Jesus referred to.

Jesus said in Matthew 5: 38

"You have heard that it was said , 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek , turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic , let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile , go with him two.

Now to verse 43 "You have heard that it was said , 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 But I say to you , love your enemies , bless those who curse you , do good to those who hate you , and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you ,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good , and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you , what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brethren only , what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?


to prove this, Jesus Christ which we are supposed to emulate because we are Christians( christ-like) never killed nobody, he was humble, meek, gentle (even washed the feet of his disciples), performed many miracles, raised the dead, spoke to GOD directly, cast out demons, etc

But what did mohammed do?? KILL PEOPLE. yes!! Mohammed killed, raped, murdered, beheaded thousands of people. He was also a pedophile and philanderer. He performed ZERO miracles, he even said the blind and lame are the worst of mankind. Mohammed didn't speak or hear from GOD directly, he heard from an angel (obviously an angel of darkness). I'll stop here for now.

vooks:


FULFILL. Study that.

Now,the subject is Islam

Now will you answer my question

vooks:


FULFILL. Study that.

Now,the subject is Islam

Now will you answer my question

true2god:
I wont die but live to an old age. I thought you said you are out, why are you still responding? If you cant bear the truth concerning your religion (that is islam) then dont come to nairaland religion section because we will keep exposing the lies and evils of islam, using islamic sources and materials.

madjnr:
please tell me the age of consent according to your bible?

madjnr:
was the prophet age and that of Aisha stated in the Quran? but you guys don't apply this logic when it comes to issues relating to Islam... you're all hypocrite

parisbookaddict:


Ask who..? I have never seen any one question Memri tv translations

vooks:


Then study Arabic your god's language and show any point you think they mistranslated

Start from 30:00. And make sure you have no hearing problems

true2god:
Sorry, I know I am spoiling your mood, but you are no longer making sense nor arguing rationally. Why are you denying your hadith which clearly shows that your prophet was a pedofile for marrying a 6 year old girl? And note that Aisha was engaged to jubair before your prophet jelously initiated the cancellation of the engagement so that he can have her (the same thing he did to zaid so that he can marry zainab). Dont you believ in your hadith again? Is sahih bukhari no longer part and parcel of islamic source material? Walahi you will be publicly beheaded in saudi arabia if you openly deny these hadiths. Do you understand islam more than the saudis?

I am not forcing any muslim to leave islam but just pointing out the fact that islamic prophet is not a decent man, using the quran and the hadith. Am I the one that wrote the quran and the hadith? No. Original muslims (the arabs) do not deny the hadith which exposed the criminalities of your prophet, they rather view mohammed deeds as a noble thing but you fake nigerian muslims (who arabs see as fake and arab slaves) would rather spend all your time and energy emotionally defending the arabain baddest man and slave trader, Mohammed ibn Abdullah (slave of allahh).

If you dont accept the hadith on mohammed marriage to aisha (at 6) and mohammed snatching zainab from zaid, why do you accept that hadith that asked you to pray five time a day (you can as well show me where it was written in your quran to pray 5 times a day)?

dorox:
I would really like to hear what a nairaland muslim thinks about this blatant display of medieval barbarity in the name of Islam by the Saudi judiciary.
Awaiting a reply from AbuKhair, madjnr, Empiree and company.

madjnr:
lol you're a hypocrite, hope you know that? so now there is Jewish law ,universal law and whatnot? maybe in your own bible... but Jesus said
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18) " It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.

madjnr:


you still haven't refuted the fact that Jesus ordered you to follow the law and not to break em

true2god:
I am not aware of the age of consent in the bible, i will check and revert. But i have never come accross any human being in the bible (or even in the secular world) who married a girl of 6 and started having sexual contact with her when she became 9 (just as mohammed did).

gimakon:


Where did Jesus say we should follow the law of moses? Can you show me.

Ayt27:


No it wasn't stated in the quran(as far as I know of)

It was stated in the hadith as narrated by aisha and we know Mohammed(pbuh) lost his wife kadijah when he was well above 50 years. The reason we don't apply this logic to Joseph and Mary is because like I said the apocryphal as agreed by numerous theological and Christian scholar as an UNRELIABLE source whereas the Hadith is reliable, except if the Hadith isn't reliable then I agree to being hypocritical.

Demmzy15:
You no get work abi, give me the authentic original video of the sheikh speaking. I can't waste my time listening and translating, show me the hadith of the supposed thighing!

madjnr:
if you're any wiser.. you will notice he said he's not here to abolish the law or put an end to it but to fulfilled it... so you must also follow the law

madjnr:
lol do you understand English at all? fulfilled means to accomplish something not to put an expiry date to something

Annunaki:


Are you literate at all or is it comprehension skills you lack cause the scripture he quoted there clearly showed Jesus changing the Law.

vooks:


What does 'accomplishing the Law' mean?
It means every purpose of Torah is realized in Christ.

Now, you may digress all your life but the truth is Islam is primitive and ret@rded and no amount of fingerpointing can change that

madjnr:
maybeyou're blind and can't read my post

madjnr:
you're a liar.. I can list you many who raped three year olds... you're hypercritical

true2god:
Mention one person in the bible who sleep with a girl of nine (or lower). Just one person, from the bible.