ehisdan:
University is technically above polytechnic
I have never seen any jambite who ignored university and filled polytechnic Just because he/she want to be technically sound or advance technologically. Rather he/she will have to choose university which is the highest institution to to obtain or acquire his/her dream. Technologically universities are more equipped compared to polytechnics, the level of acquisition of knowledge is higher than that of the polytechnic, in the sense that the lecturers in the University are vast in knowledge and most of them has attain the highest level of education (professors).

No! Students ignored polytechnics not because of the quality of education but as a result of the discrimination they will face in future in term of employment. Let the BSc and HND degrees be equal, then you will see how people will rush to polytechnic. In the real sense, this will reduce the pressure mount on universities for admission and frustration students will have to go through. Thereby limiting suicide thought or even suicide as a result of frustration of getting university admission.

ehisdan:
Equating HND with B. SC: a panacea of technological advancement/innovative idea

The war of equating hnd with b. SC has been on the field for decades. It has been become and object of concern not only to the students but also the government. This cause the Senate in 2014 to pass a bill on equating higher national diploma (hnd) and University degree (b. Sc) though nothing was heard of it thereafter.

On this note I table my greetings to the owner of nairaland, the moderators, panel of judges, the coordinator, my fellow debaters and everyone viewing this tread as member or as a guest.

My name is Ehisdan, the second writer representing Auchi polytechnic Auchi on the notion "Equating hnd with b.sc: a panacea of technological advancement/innovative idea". I hereby write in opposition of the notion.

Before pinning down my points let me quickly bring to our understanding the meaning of some words or acronyms in the context.
Panacea: according to the Oxford dictionary means something that will solve all problems of a particular situation. On the other other hand "a remedy".
University: An institution at the highest level of education where you can study for a degree or do research.
Polytechnic: a college for higher education, especially in scientific and technical subjects.
Equating: making something the same.
B. Sc: a first university degree in a science subject.
HND: Higher National Diploma.

Equating hnd with b. Sc: a remedy for technological advancements/innovation is an aberration.
Technological advancements/innovative idea is not institution dependent and if so, equating hnd with b. Sc is never the solution. B. Sc is a degree gotten from the University which is the highest institution and hnd degree on the other hand is gotten from the polytechnic which is a higher institution. Though polytechnic is tag with technical and science study, university still have an upper hand over it. A person with b. Sc is assume to have acquired all the educational acquittances of furthering his education to a masters level while a hnd degree holder will have to undergo PGD program before having an access to acquirinug a masters degree. This means that there is a vacuum that has been filled by b. Sc degree which hnd degree need to fill before crossing the bridge to masters degree. The words Highest and Higher as used respectively has even justified the fact that equating hnd with b.sc is An error.

University is technically above polytechnic
I have never seen any jambite who ignored university and filled polytechnic Just because he/she want to be technically sound or advance technologically. Rather he/she will have to choose university which is the highest institution to to obtain or acquire his/her dream. Technologically universities are more equipped compared to polytechnics, the level of acquisition of knowledge is higher than that of the polytechnic, in the sense that the lecturers in the University are vast in knowledge and most of them has attain the highest level of education (professors).

Equating hnd with b.sc will not make any change to technology
HND is a degree as well B.SC they have no additional support to technology/innovative idea of a country. There are so many people out there who does not have the opportunity to be in the four walls of higher institution but are technologically sound and can even lecture a b.sc and hnd degree holder what can not be acquired in higher institution.

The level of B.sc degree and HND degree acquisition
These two degrees are of great difference. The highest years of study on normal ground in the polytechnic is five years, but in the University depending on the course of study is seven years. How then can you equate five to seven?. In polytechnic hnd degree can easily be gotten than getting a b.sc in the University. In the polytechnic a student can easily buy his/her way to top bland acquire the result but in the University the case is reverse, in the sense that most of the lecturers are professors, doctors and PhD who has there image to protect and will not want anything to bring them down. While in the polytechnic most of the lecturers are hnd holders, b.sc and PhD holder can easily collect money from students give them what they want.

Conclusively
The panacea to technological advancement/innovation is not equating hnd to b.sc rather self development and government policy on technology.

It is very wrong for you to say PhD holders in Universities cannot collect gratifications from students and pass them anyway.
Lecturing in a polytechnic does not mean that you have no reputation.
There are good and bad people across all spheres of life. Your postulation cannot stand any scientific inquiry

OAUTemitayo:
Your argument that university degree requires seven years is nothing but a figment of your own imagination and a complete fallacy.
There is no university Degree in Nigeria that requires seven years of study. Not even medicine which is six years. Other ranges from four to five years.
The fact that you don't know the duration of time for getting a degree shows clearly that you are out of touch with reality on the university system is

Could you please state your counter arguments without any form of invectives.

Thank you.

ehisdan:
Equating HND with B. SC: a panacea of technological advancement/innovative idea

Equating hnd with b.sc will not make any change to technology
HND is a degree as well B.SC they have no additional support to technology/innovative idea of a country. There are so many people out there who does not have the opportunity to be in the four walls of higher institution but are technologically sound and can even lecture a b.sc and hnd degree holder what can not be acquired in higher institution.

if there are so many people out there who have no opportunity of being in the four walls of higher institution and are technological sound to the point of being able to teach both HND and BSc holders, then that means HND and BSc holders are both inferior to this set of people. if they are both inferior to this set of people, then it will be wrong if we regard BSc as superior to HND holders

OAUTemitayo:
Your argument that university degree requires seven years is nothing but a figment of your own imagination and a complete fallacy.
There is no university Degree in Nigeria that requires seven years of study. Not even medicine which is six years. Other ranges from four to five years.
The fact that you don't know the duration of time for getting a degree shows clearly that you are out of touch with reality on the university system is

Having used the word "highest" and aswell counted 5 years for polytechnic which is normally 4 years be known to you that 1year Industrial Training and 1 year internship training for medicine students is part of education.
Thank you

luxanne:


Could you please state your counter arguments without any form of invectives.

Thank you.

Modified. Though I didn't mean to abuse.
Thanks

OAUTemitayo:

You are wrong on the notion that no student can rise above the knowledge of his teacher. Bill gates have proved it that somebody who dropped out of school as a result of not being able to meet the examination demands set by his teacher can still be better than his teacher in same field.

We don't argue with fallacies. Bill gate have to leave the four walls of education to think outside what his lecturers are feeding him with the same is applicable to seun.

ehisdan:

The level of B.sc degree and HND degree acquisition
These two degrees are of great difference. The highest years of study on normal ground in the polytechnic is five years, but in the University depending on the course of study is seven years. How then can you equate five to seven?. In polytechnic hnd degree can easily be gotten than getting a b.sc in the University. In the polytechnic a student can easily buy his/her way to top bland acquire the result but in the University the case is reverse, in the sense that most of the lecturers are professors, doctors and PhD who has there image to protect and will not want anything to bring them down. While in the polytechnic most of the lecturers are hnd holders, b.sc and PhD holder can easily collect money from students give them what they want.

Conclusively
The panacea to technological advancement/innovation is not equating hnd to b.sc rather self development and government policy on technology.

You are actually wrong here. Nigeria is corrupt. Buying one's way to the top with money and other things is not peculiar to polytechnics. It is peculiar to almost all the schools in the country. Saying that there is no bribery in universities is fallacious.

moreover, the discipline that is studied for seven years is not studied here in polytechnics, if actually it is being studied, come to think of how many years that will be spent in its pursuit. Mere looking at the discipline offered by the two institutions, you will agree with me that the highest of the two disciplines is five years.

ehisdan:
Having used the word "highest" and aswell counted 5 years for polytechnic which is normally 4 years be known to you that 1year Industrial Training and 1 year internship training for medicine students is part of education.
Thank you

You are wrong sir. While IT is a prerequisite for getting your HND certificate, internship is not a prerequisite for getting your Medicine degree. Internship is just a prerequisite for accreditation by the Nigerian medical and dental council to enable you practice

emaculate99:

No! Students ignored polytechnics not because of the quality of education but as a result of the discrimination they will face in future in terms of employment. Let the BSc and HND degrees be equal, then you will see how people will rush to polytechnic. And in real sense, this will reduce the pressure mount on universities for admission and frustration students will have to go through. Thereby limiting suicide thought or even suicide as a result of frustration of getting university admission.

It's totally untrue.
Equate SSCE with B. Sc and check if anybody will border about attending University again.

The two institutions are basically taught in different in debth of their courses. The polytechnic is shallow....

Joejonah:


We don't argue with fallacies. Bill gate have to leave the four walls of education to think outside what his lecturers are feeding him with the same is applicable to seun.

Isn't Bill Gate better than the teachers who taught him mathematics and physics today?
You can actually be greater than your teacher.

OAUTemitayo:

You are wrong sir. While IT is a prerequisite for getting your HND certificate, internship is not a prerequisite for getting your Medicine degree. Internship is just a prerequisite for accreditation by the Nigerian medical and dental council to enable you practice

which means you are now telling me its not relevant and shouldn't be counted as part of the education?

Joejonah:


It's totally untrue.
Equate SSCE with B. Sc and check if anybody will border about attending University again.

The two institutions are basically taught in different in debth of their courses. The polytechnic is shallow....

if polytechnics are shallow, why do established institutions accept applications from HND holders for same vacancies that BSC holders are applying for?
Isn't that a tactical acceptance of HND holders as equals of BSC holders?

Joejonah:
It is very important that we look out for the differences and similarities between BSC and HND, both in quality and purpose before thinking of equating them. In Nigeria, B.Sc and it's equivalent are awarded by the University only and these universities are accredited, monitored and assessed by National University commission (NUC). While HND on the other hand are awarded by the polytechnic only and these polytechnics are monitored, accredited, and assessed by National Board of technical education (NBTE). These two bodies are guided by different rules. They offer both the content of the courses, it's debth, area to be covered and qualifications of lecturers to handle these courses and this assessment are widely different from the one offered by (NBTE) offering assessment to the polytechnic because they act independently. With this one can deduce that an electrical engineering graduate from the University is different from those in the polytechnic as the former is exposed to a wider coverage of his field. That is to say the former was taught all that the later knew, and we can't say it's vice versa because NBTE is restricted by law not to offer equivalent courses NUC will accredited for the universities.
Oxford dictionary (7th edition).

I agree that the two institutions are guided by two different bodies and that they have different reasons for their establishment. Mere looking at the name of the body controlling the polytechnic education, we can deduce that polytechnic is purely established for technical aspect of the field. The polytechnic students are taught how to do things while the university students are taught the theoretical aspects. Both of them have their own loopholes. it is necessary for them to have different rules and courses they offer as they offer courses that will suit their purposes. Normally, they are meant to work together as "practice without theory is blind and theory without practice is sterile."

ehisdan:
which means you are now telling me its not relevant and shouldn't be counted as part of the education?

I did not say that. I am only affirming the fact that no degree in Nigeria requires seven years of study.
Almost everything we do is education. But internship is not part of a medical degree programme anywhere in Nigeria.
Thank you

OAUTemitayo:

You are wrong sir. While IT is a prerequisite for getting your HND certificate, internship is not a prerequisite for getting your Medicine degree. Internship is just a prerequisite for accreditation by the Nigerian medical and dental council to enable you practice

Please sir why is medicine and law not studied in the polytechnic?? Don't tell me they are not technically oriented courses.... Because business administration is not too.

Joejonah:


It's totally untrue.
Equate SSCE with B. Sc and check if anybody will border about attending University again.

The two institutions are basically taught in different in debth of their courses. The polytechnic is shallow....

you cannot equate SSCE with polytechnics because Polytechnics are tertiary institutions and not Secondary schools. They learn basically almost the same thing that is learnt in universities while Senior secondary students only dream of learning these things. Therefore, SSCE can never be equated with University.

Joejonah:

It is a popular saying that “no education can rise above the quality of its teachers”. Now taking the banner to the quality and quantity of lecturers found in both institutions. It is a known fact that it has been established that the minimum requirements for someone to qualify to lecture bsc undergraduate is a Ph.D, and this is the highest qualification found in the polytechnic and most of the lecturer with this degree in the polytechnic are considered as administrative officers and they hardly lecture. So the people training our HND holders are their colleagues(HND holders), B. SC, MSc holders and we can't undermine the place of time based experience, exposure, research work which the professors in the University has to the unqualified teaching staff found in the polytechnic.

I have many lecturers that are not Ph.D holders. If what you said is true, then that means the first class graduates (without Ph. D) that are always retained in universities to lecture students are not lecturers but probably cleaners or librarians or anything other than lecturers.

emaculate99:
if there are so many people out there who have no opportunity of being in the four walls of higher institution and are technological sound to the point of being able both HND and BSc holders, then that means HND and BSc holders are both inferior to these set of people. if they are both inferior to these set of people, then it will be wrong if we regard BSc as superior to HND holders

B. Sc is superior in the sense that garbage in garbage out what u are taught is what u know. if you are taught by quack you will be a quack. you can not compare some one that is taught by professor to some one who is taught by an hnd holders.

OAUTemitayo:
Isn't Bill Gate better than the teachers who taught him mathematics and physics today?
You can actually be greater than your teacher.

He is not greater than lecturers that taught him mathematics and physics. In short form he don't even know half of what those lecturers knew. All he did was to apply the knowledge in different ways not as he was guided by those teachers. That is why he failed in school but successful outside school.

Well done debaters.

The judges can now post their questions and/or arguments.

Thank you.

Obinoscopy, Ishilove, Xynerise

Joejonah:


Please sir why is medicine and law not studied in the polytechnic?? Don't tell me they are not technically oriented courses.... Because business administration is not too.

Because law is not studied studied in Nigerian polytechnics does not mean Nigerian university graduates are better than them.
Polytechnics were established solely for the provision of technical manpower. That they also study business administration is not a point. Federal University of Agriculture Abeokuta was established solely for agricultural purpose yet it is admitting students to study Banking and finance today. Loss of sense of purpose is a Nigerian problem and not peculiar to polytechnics alone.

OAUTemitayo:
I did not say that. I am only affirming the fact that no degree in Nigeria requires seven years of study.
Almost everything we do is education. But internship is not part of a medical degree programme anywhere in Nigeria.
Thank you

as far as without internship u can proceed to become a medical doctor which the main reason of the study so also u can't proceed to hnd to without I. T and attain your goal

emaculate99:
I have many lecturers that are not Ph.D holders. If what you said is true, then that means the first class graduates (without Ph. D) that are always retained in universities to lecture students are not lecturers but probably cleaners or librarians or anything other than lecturers.

I thought you knew the difference between graduate assistant and lecturers. Those first class are genius in making, despite this they are not allowed to lecture 300 level students and above. Come to the polytechnic and see your fellow students (course Mate) been assigned course to lecture you by the lecturers

am having network problem over here ooo

Joejonah:

On how students are absorbed into B. Sc and HND program a great difference is also observed. In the University the introduction of post- UME Screening has effectively put paid to issue of admission racketting and reduced incidence of examination malpractice and cultism. There is evidence that show that products of post UME have shown and demonstrated remarkable commitment in their studies than pre-post UME students. It should be noted that while universities are taking these steps, polytechnic are lagging behind, offering mass-admission to low quality reluctant, unpersistent students who can't take the pain of scoring 200 aggregate in JAMB, only for them to be churned out the same way they were absorbed.

it is a fallacy to say that Post UTME has reduced the case of cultism in university. How can post Utme reduce the case of cultism?

Also, polytechnics have a way of testing students that is similar to Post Utme. Like some polytechnics, not all university test their students before admitting them.

Joejonah:


He is not greater than lecturers that taught him mathematics and physics. In short form he don't even know half of what those lecturers knew. All he did was to apply the knowledge in different ways not as he was guided by those teachers. That is why he failed in school but successful outside school.

He is now greater than them and yet it was the same physics and mathematics he was taught in school he used in writing the codes and programs of the Microsoft operating system. He is better by far than them in same field they taught him

Joejonah:


I thought you knew the difference between graduate assistant and lecturers. Those first class are genius in making, despite this they are not allowed to lecture 300 level students and above. Come to the polytechnic and see your fellow students (course Mate) been assigned course to lecture you by the lecturers

Don't generalise what is happening in your polytechnic to other polytechnics. It is just like comparing what is happening in state universities to federal universities. There is reason why universities are graded. OAU cannot be compared with OSU. So is FedIlaro cannot be compared with Such poly

Joejonah:


I thought you knew the difference between graduate assistant and lecturers. Those first class are genius in making, despite this they are not allowed to lecture 300 level students and above. Come to the polytechnic and see your fellow students (course Mate) been assigned course to lecture you by the lecturers

Only Ph.D holders are allowed to lecture? I have many lecturers who are not Ph.D holders. Your statement is incorrect.

Be it graduate assistant or not, I don't think we have much to differentiate in as much as this set of people are qualified to lecture university students.

ehisdan:
as far as without internship u can proceed to become a medical doctor which the main reason of the study so also u can't proceed to hnd to without I. T and attain your goal

We are talking of the degree programme. Internship is not a prerequisite for medical degree certificate whole IT is a prerequisite for HND certificate.
No more no less

OAUTemitayo:

Because law is not studied studied in Nigerian polytechnics does not mean Nigerian university graduates are better than them.
Polytechnics were established solely for the provision of technical manpower. That they also study business administration is not a point. Federal University of Agriculture Abeokuta was established solely for agricultural purpose yet it is admitting students to study Banking and finance today. Loss of sense of purpose is a Nigerian problem and not peculiar to polytechnics alone.

Which technical manpower is business administration students in polytechnics equipped with?

ehisdan:
B. Sc is superior in the sense that garbage in garbage out what u are taught is what u know. if you are taught by quack you will be a quack. you can not compare some one that is taught by professor to some one who is taught by an hnd holders.

what you mean is that all the lecturers that are lecturing you in your school are quack and have no knowledge of what they are lecturing, right? if that is the case, why are you not quack?