At the bold statements, Juju practitioners can argue the same since both don't have objective credibility of their "god". But the point I'm trying to get RichyBlack to understand is to not classify magic by who performed it. Magic is magic no matter who performed it. He pinned himself to the corner by saying "jesus was given power by "god" the author and finisher of his faith" while thinking voodoo practitioners can't say the same. This is not an attack on RichyBlack's faith, it's an attack on his bias stand in the argument. People heard of all the things the Bible said jesus and god did, they started worhiping them, people heard of the things voodoo did, they started practicing it therefore the reason people worship god is the same reason voodoo practitioners worship whoever they worship. Both hearing and not confirming it. People flock to a particular church because they heard people say things good about the pastor. People flock to juju priests because they heard of the things they did good or bad. It's all submission without confirmation. I hope you understand my stand well now. I'm not trying to bash Richy's fate, I'm just pointing it out he's biased. I don't think Richy is saying juju is false because it's truly false. I think he's saying juju is false because it suits his position as his god being the only one with power. But I try to make him understand that both juju and other forms of religion is all either real or a bunch of fallacies. If you can believe that pastor Chris actually made a crippled man walk, I think you shouldn't find it hard to believe Afam saying he saw bullets bouncing off flesh. Was it pastor Adeboye that said he drove tens of miles with an empty tank and giving testimony to his congregation about it? I think if you believe that, then you should be gullible enough believe many other fallacies out there.

good point. I excuse myself

platinumnk:

hahah

just like Christ is real Juju is real

like evil and good

God gives power to certain of his followers to heal through HIM

Satan has his own form of power. . . enough said

i don't see the direct correlation between the existence of Juju and christ.

Do both have to exist or were you raised to believe they do?

platinumnk:

hahah

just like Christ is real Juju is real

like evil and good

God gives power to certain of his followers to heal through HIM

Satan has his own form of power. . . enough said

Let me help you complete your sentence:

"God gives power to certain of his followers to heal through HIM"

"Satan has his own form of power which he gives to his followers to heal, stop bullets, convert corpses to crisp dollar notes, turn to cats, to goats, defy gravity, kill ANYBODY they like. So, you see Satan gives more powers to his followers than what God gives to His followers . . . enough said"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, RichyBlack, I think it's finishing up with 9jaganja last post. As for those questions, I'm sorry, I don't have the answers to those. All that can be done is to speculate.

Afam:

I am sorry I cannot provide the information you seek because I am not a juju man as only those that use them can answer your specific questions and why they fail sometimes.

Afam, yes i understand that you cannot give us the details of bullet proof juju and its efficacy, but at least give us a little more detail of what you saw as an eyewitness.

What was the type of Gun used for the demonstration and the calibre of its ammunition?

What was the range from the target?

Did the bullet hit the target but did not penetrate the skin whereby you will see the reaction from the impact of the bullet on the person according to Newton's third law, or the bullet missed the target as a result of the juju or the bullet disappear before it hit the intended target?

Further more I had always wondered why the Chinese who invented gun powder and the Europeans who adapted that technology into gun, were never able to produce bullet proof juju, after all the chinese were known to be adept at juju (until the coming of Chairman Mao). How come it is only our juju men that was able to understand this imported technology more than the original manufacturers.


My own theory about this is that Bullet proof juju claims are fraudulent. I believe some politicians, whether military, civilian or spiritual, in connivance with priests, juju men, shamans, marabouts, etc. ( these people had connived since the beginning of history to deceive and exploit the hapless masses). This is done in order to encourage men, who otherwise are fearful of bullets to fight bravely for what ever cause the politicians want. They will engage in a demonstration in a controlled environment, with some witnesses, who would go on to spread the news to others who would also go on and spread the news and so on. Finally you would have many young men who are ready to undergo the initiation rites for the bullet proof juju, and would be ready to enter an armed conflict fearlessly. There are always lots of excuse for those that are killed by bullets, theses excuses range from what the person wears, or eats or even that the opponents had neutralized the juju with the use of a more powerful juju.

This is just my theory, i wonder what others make of it.

Afam
RichyBlack
SEFAGO
9jaganja

This issue is very interesting. Afam raised a very important point by challenging us to disclaim juju and at the same uphold some of the fantastic stories in the bible which by and large look like juju. RichyBlack fell into the trap; all his attempt to reconcile both position looks pathetic. 9jaganja highlight the discrepancies, SEFAGO understood the fact and excuse himself.

You cant continue to scream juju is fraudulent , while the church you believe as a matter of faith, are doing the same thing that looks like juju and believe in the efficacy of juju. You must be fair; judge and analysed on the same standard.

To shed light on this convoluted issue we need to go back to the beginning, lets ask the right question :
[size=17pt]what is juju[/size]?
Is juju a religion, a culture, or a mystery supernatural phenomenon. Only then can we answer Afam's question regarding those stories in the bible.

All juju claims are fraudulent. . . .it seems so many people really believe what the see in the Nigeria home movies that have NO basis in reality(those movies are supposed to be work of fiction by the way). . . juju is nothing but a cultural thing and exist ONLY in cultures that believe in the myth and give it power and credibility. . . .Any body that has the power to deflect bullets will become richer than bill gates. . . .if human sacrifice makes people rich then africans should be the richest people on the planet. . . .if juju really works then Nigerians should not be complaining about power cuts, low life expectancy, very high rate of road accidents and the very many problems we have in our nation. . .Juju is useless and should be relegated to the history books the way Europeans have relegated the myth of witches and wizards into their history books. . . .

How did I miss this topic all along

@Afam
The theory of juju is always propagated by second hand accounts that become third-hand, then 4th-hand.
If you witnesses somebody being shot at close range and the bullet "refused" to hit the person, then I would simply tell you it's either one of these:
1. Fraud---- another case of the more you look the less you see-" American wonder"
2. Russian roulette--there was no bullette at that point.

Infact, if you watch the ABC show about Magicians, you would see how many of these jujus or magics are easily explained. Finally, despite all other mishaps about people being killed because they were testing their bullet-proof juju, I would challenge the subject to present himself for experimentation by being shot by an independent 3rd party---hopefully after he's made his will.

bilymuse:

You cant continue to scream juju is fraudulent , while the church you believe as a matter of faith, are doing the same thing that looks like juju and believe in the efficacy of juju. You must be fair; judge and analysed on the same standard.

To shed light on this convoluted issue we need to go back to the beginning, lets ask the right question :
[size=17pt]what is juju[/size]?
Is juju a religion, a culture, or a mystery supernatural phenomenon. Only then can we answer Afam's question regarding those stories in the bible.

Juju, religious belief, and magic are not limited to Africans. Infact white people, Asians, and American know about these principles, but they also know about their practical limitations. The difference in Africa is that most of us don't seem to know the limitations of these belief system.

naijaking1:

Juju, religious belief, and magic are not limited to Africans. Infact white people, Asians, and American know about these principles, but they also know about their practical limitations. The difference in Africa is that most of us don't seem to know the limitations of these belief system.

Belief in juju is only a product of indoctrination and culture. . . . nothing more. . . . Most people obey the and believe in what their culture believes in and teaches them regardless of how false it is. . . . all juju claims are false and lack any basis in reality. . . .In general, people will believe in the traditional meme of their surrounding environment. . . .

bilymuse:

This issue is very interesting. Afam raised a very important point by challenging us to disclaim juju and at the same uphold some of the fantastic stories in the bible which by and large look like juju. RichyBlack fell into the trap; all his attempt to reconcile both position looks pathetic. 9jaganja highlight the discrepancies, SEFAGO understood the fact and excuse himself.

You can take the content above to any bank and they will give you cash.

More diversions are being introduced. I can understand the dilemma of some people like RichyBlack would excuses supernatural belief as faith when convenient and concludes juju is fake because it suits him.

This is the tragedy of the thinking process of an average Nigerian. Inconsistency, double speak and unnecessary diversions.

@all those that have claimed that juju doesn't work otherwise Africans would have been very rich I have this to state - juju as we know it is not only practiced by Africans. This is basic, highly simplistic and common sense position for an educated person to miss.

This forum is not an alternative to regular education.

In conclusion, whether juju works or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether some of you agree or not. This is one fact that makes some arguments a complete waste of time especially when people have minds that are not yet trained to accommodate views and opinions that may seem strange to them.

bilymuse:

Afam
RichyBlack
SEFAGO
9jaganja

This issue is very interesting. Afam raised a very important point by challenging us to disclaim juju and at the same uphold some of the fantastic stories in the bible which by and large look like juju. RichyBlack fell into the trap; all his attempt to reconcile both position looks pathetic. 9jaganja highlight the discrepancies, SEFAGO understood the fact and excuse himself.

You cant continue to scream juju is fraudulent , while the church you believe as a matter of faith, are doing the same thing that looks like juju and believe in the efficacy of juju. You must be fair; judge and analysed on the same standard.

To shed light on this convoluted issue we need to go back to the beginning, lets ask the right question :
[size=17pt]what is juju[/size]?
Is juju a religion, a culture, or a mystery supernatural phenomenon. Only then can we answer Afam's question regarding those stories in the bible.

@bilymuse,

9jaganja's and Afam's arguments are contrarian and are attempts to shift the debate.

While 9jaganja has some issues with all religions and intends to widen the debate to encompass all belief systems, Afam is irritated by what he perceives as a slight towards traditional African belief systems by my flatly declaring ALL juju claims to be fraudulent.

This thread was not opened to defend any religion and anyone who wants to discuss religion can do so. This thread was started to point to documented evidence that juju claims are fraudulent.

wirinet:

Afam, yes i understand that you cannot give us the details of bullet proof juju and its efficacy, but at least give us a little more detail of what you saw as an eyewitness.

What was the type of Gun used for the demonstration and the calibre of its ammunition?

What was the range from the target?

Did the bullet hit the target but did not penetrate the skin whereby you will see the reaction from the impact of the bullet on the person according to Newton's third law, or the bullet missed the target as a result of the juju or the bullet disappear before it hit the intended target?

Further more I had always wondered why the Chinese who invented gun powder and the Europeans who adapted that technology into gun, were never able to produce bullet proof juju, after all the chinese were known to be adept at juju (until the coming of Chairman Mao). How come it is only our juju men that was able to understand this imported technology more than the original manufacturers.


My own theory about this is that Bullet proof juju claims are fraudulent. I believe some politicians, whether military, civilian or spiritual, in connivance with priests, juju men, shamans, marabouts, etc. ( these people had connived since the beginning of history to deceive and exploit the hapless masses). This is done in order to encourage men, who otherwise are fearful of bullets to fight bravely for what ever cause the politicians want. They will engage in a demonstration in a controlled environment, with some witnesses, who would go on to spread the news to others who would also go on and spread the news and so on. Finally you would have many young men who are ready to undergo the initiation rites for the bullet proof juju, and would be ready to enter an armed conflict fearlessly. There are always lots of excuse for those that are killed by bullets, theses excuses range from what the person wears, or eats or even that the opponents had neutralized the juju with the use of a more powerful juju.

This is just my theory, i wonder what others make of it.

Your theory is in agreement with mine. Excellent post!

I wonder when Nigerians/Africans will stop being taken for a ride by this fraud called juju.

Afam:

@all those that have claimed that juju doesn't work otherwise Africans would have been very rich I have this to state - juju as we know it is not only practiced by Africans. This is basic, highly simplistic and common sense position for an educated person to miss.

This has nothing to do with the veracity of juju claims at all. . .juju claims it can make people rich but yet the people that believe in it and practice it the most remain the poorest people on the surface of the planet. . .Indains also believe in juju but even their govenment is now teaching and trying toexplain to people that most of the claims are fruadulent. . . . their government is also trying to expose the porponents of juju. . .

The crackdown on spiritual leaders and "faith healers" began last month after police arrested a Hindu godman, Amritha Chaithanya alias Santosh Madhavan, on fraud cases, and for allegedly amassing illegal wealth. Police also allegedly recovered pornographic CDs from lockers in his home showing sexually indecent acts with minor girls.

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080609/christians-caught-up-in-crackdown-on-hindu-faith-healers/index.html#

India: High Court orders crack down on miracle healers. . . .

Bad times may be coming for the tantriks (black magicians) and miracle healers of New Delhi. They could be forced to stop their lucrative business or to go underground.

An order of the Delhi High Court from 30 April 2003 has laid the state government of Delhi under the obligation to watch out for men and women, who claim to have miraculous healing powers, and put a stop to their promises and practicesPrompted by a Public Interest Litigation filed by Salek Chand Jain, the High Court has blown the dust off the Drugs and Magic Remedies Objectionable Advertisements Act, 1954, which states that promising anybody magic solutions for his problems or magic cures of his diseases is a punishable act. No matter, if committed in newspaper advertisements, on sign boards, wall paintings or just by spreading the word, the fraudulent claimant can be fined and imprisoned for six months or, in case of repetition, one year. The High Court has asked the government to act on the base of addresses and phone numbers given in advertisements and crack down on spiritual frauds. There are at least 200 self-styled miracle healers operating in Delhi and luring their victims with advertisements and wall paintings.


http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2003/108.htm#2

The Indain government has the guts to do something that our government dare not do that is telling the people the truth about all these fraudulent activities some people engage in called juju. . . . there is nothing truthful about it. . . it is all a fraud, if it were not a fraud the indain governmet will not launch a crack down on those that engage in it. . .if it were true those that engage in it will use their juju powers to fight back against the indain government instead of running away of changing location. . . .

This forum is not an alternative to regular education.

In conclusion, whether juju works or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether some of you agree or not. This is one fact that makes some arguments a complete waste of time especially when people have minds that are not yet trained to accommodate views and opinions that may seem strange to them.

This has nothing to do with the fact that juju is a fraud that deserves to be called out for what it is. . . .calling something what it really is, is not the same thing as refusing to accept it. . . . . . there are some people that dislike it when you say that alqeada is a terrorist organization. . . but that will never stop people from pointing that fact. . .saying that alqeada is a terrorist organization does not make you a close minded person. . . .

mazaje:

[size=14pt]All juju claims are fraudulent[/size]. . . .it seems so many people really believe what the see in the Nigeria home movies that have NO basis in reality(those movies are supposed to be work of fiction by the way). . . juju is nothing but a cultural thing and exist ONLY in cultures that believe in the myth and give it power and credibility. . . .Any body that has the power to deflect bullets will become richer than bill gates. . . .if human sacrifice makes people rich then africans should be the richest people on the planet. . . .if juju really works then Nigerians should not be complaining about power cuts, low life expectancy, very high rate of road accidents and the very many problems we have in our nation. . .Juju is useless and should be relegated to the history books the way Europeans have relegated the myth of witches and wizards into their history books. . . .  

All I can say is WOW!

If more Nigerian thought like you on this issue, we would have made a lot of progress in that country! Unfortunately this is what we get:


Nigerian burns £1.2m in bizarre ritual

A Nigerian official obsessed with witchcraft burned £1.2 million of stolen public money and smeared the ashes over his naked body in a bizarre ritual, police said.

By Mike Pflanz in Nairobi
Last Updated: 8:45AM BST 22 Aug 2008

Sam Edem, chairman of the Niger Delta Development Commission, is accused of stealing a total of £3.4 million in public money to pay a witchdoctor to cast "juju" spells to secure business contracts and to kill a powerful rival at work.

Part of the black magic reportedly involved Mr Edem burning £1.2 million in cash and then smearing the ashes over his naked body in a cemetery in the middle of the night in a "fortification" ritual.

Mr Edem, who denies the allegations, has been formally charged with theft and criminal conspiracy at the High Court in the capital, Abuja.

He initiated the police investigation himself when he complained that the self-proclaimed sorcerer, Perekabowei Ogah, had tried to swindle him out of millions of pounds and was acting on behalf of political rivals.

But detectives became suspicious when Mr Edem allegedly could not account for how he earned the money in the first place. His lawyers said it was donated by well-wishers to fund an election attempt.

"We believe that this is money from the Nigerian government, money that should have been used to develop the Niger Delta," said Ali Amodu, the police commissioner in Abuja.

The Niger Delta Development Commission was set up to channel money that the federal government earns from crude oil sales back to the millions who live in poverty in the country's oil-producing region.

Despite initial support from the public, its reputation was quickly tarnished by persistent reports that it achieved little and that senior members of staff were stealing funds.

The area has been plagued by an increasingly violent rebellion spearheaded by militants who say they are fighting for a greater share of oil wealth to the Delta.

But many of the armed gangs are little more than criminals extorting money through kidnappings, often with the tacit support of local politicians, it has been claimed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl, re-ritual.html

bawomolo:

i don't see the direct correlation between the existence of Juju and christ.

Do both have to exist or were you raised to believe they do?

ying and yang.

RichyBlacK:

Let me help you complete your sentence:

"God gives power to certain of his followers to heal through HIM"

"Satan has his own form of power which he gives to his followers to heal, stop bullets, convert corpses to crisp dollar notes, turn to cats, to goats, defy gravity, kill ANYBODY they like. So, you see Satan gives more powers to his followers than what God gives to His followers . . . enough said"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I dont know the range of Satans ablities, but I think its quite a lot. Satan does not have the power to heal but he can remove aflictions he brought upon someone. It may seem the same , but its not, in Job he asked to put Job under, then after a while of testing, he removed it from him.

I cant explain it further, but I know its real majority is made up, but in cases, juju is real.

platinumnk:

ying and yang.
I dont know the range of Satans ablities, but I think its quite a lot. Satan does not have the power to heal but he can remove aflictions he brought upon someone. It may seem the same , but its not, in Job he asked to put Job under, then after a while of testing, he removed it from him.

I cant explain it further, but I know its real majority is made up, but in cases, juju is real.

Questions for you:

1. Is there anything that is beyond the power of juju?

2. Can you give some examples, if any?

RichyBlacK:



Nigerian burns £1.2m in bizarre ritual

A Nigerian official obsessed with witchcraft burned £1.2 million of stolen public money and smeared the ashes over his naked body in a bizarre ritual, police said.

By Mike Pflanz in Nairobi
Last Updated: 8:45AM BST 22 Aug 2008

Sam Edem, chairman of the Niger Delta Development Commission, is accused of stealing a total of £3.4 million in public money to pay a witchdoctor to cast "juju" spells to secure business contracts and to kill a powerful rival at work.

Part of the black magic reportedly involved Mr Edem burning £1.2 million in cash and then smearing the ashes over his naked body in a cemetery in the middle of the night in a "fortification" ritual.

Mr Edem, who denies the allegations, has been formally charged with theft and criminal conspiracy at the High Court in the capital, Abuja.

He initiated the police investigation himself when he complained that the self-proclaimed sorcerer, Perekabowei Ogah, had tried to swindle him out of millions of pounds and was acting on behalf of political rivals.

But detectives became suspicious when Mr Edem allegedly could not account for how he earned the money in the first place. His lawyers said it was donated by well-wishers to fund an election attempt.

"We believe that this is money from the Nigerian government, money that should have been used to develop the Niger Delta," said Ali Amodu, the police commissioner in Abuja.

The Niger Delta Development Commission was set up to channel money that the federal government earns from crude oil sales back to the millions who live in poverty in the country's oil-producing region.

Despite initial support from the public, its reputation was quickly tarnished by persistent reports that it achieved little and that senior members of staff were stealing funds.

The area has been plagued by an increasingly violent rebellion spearheaded by militants who say they are fighting for a greater share of oil wealth to the Delta.

But many of the armed gangs are little more than criminals extorting money through kidnappings, often with the tacit support of local politicians, it has been claimed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl, re-ritual.html

What is this :

naijaking1:

How did I miss this topic all along

@Afam
The theory of juju is always propagated by second hand accounts that become third-hand, then 4th-hand.
If you witnesses somebody being shot at close range and the bullet "refused" to hit the person, then I would simply tell you it's either one of these:
1. Fraud---- another case of the more you look the less you see-" American wonder"
2. Russian roulette--there was no bullette at that point.

Infact, if you watch the ABC show about Magicians, you would see how many of these jujus or magics are easily explained. Finally, despite all other mishaps about people being killed because they were testing their bullet-proof juju, I would challenge the subject to present himself for experimentation by being shot by an independent 3rd party---hopefully after he's made his will.  

naijaking1,

Good to see that you're still taking out time to educate the Nigerian youths about this grand fraud called juju. My hope is that more Nigerians will embrace science and technology and stop believing that juju can fix bad roads or guarantee regular power supply.

mazaje:

What is this :

Let me post a more detailed version for you


[center]Nigeria: Juju Scam - Yar'Adua Orders Probe of NDDC Boss[/center]

Kinsley Nwezeh

7 August 2008

Lagos — President Umaru Musa Yar'Adua has ordered an investigation into allegations that the Chairman of the Niger Delta Development Commission (NDDC), Ambassador Sam Edem, spent N1billion to secure the services of a sorcerer to employ spiritual means to enable him secure contracts from the Akwa Ibom State Government.

The President also directed the Inspector General of Police, Mike Okiro, and the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) to get to the root of the matter.

Edem was also alleged to have burnt N270 million at a Port Harcourt cemetery, which he later bathed with in order to realise his wishes from the state government functionaries.

According to a statement made by the sorcerer, Dr. Perekambowei Ogah, also known as Matthew Sonoma, at the Zone 5 Police Headquarters in Benin, Edo State and published in the latest edition of Newswatch magazine, Edem paid into his executive savings account at the Ughelli, Delta State branch of one of the new generation banks, N15 million to make some sacrifice in order to retain his position as NNDC chairman when the board was dissolved.

Ogah also claimed to have received three different requests from Edem notably to work on the Akwa Ibom State Governor, Dr. Godswill Akpabio, in order to secure contracts from him; to kill the Managing Director of NDDC, Mr. Timi Alaibe, who also works in the same office with him to enable him have his way in decision making processes and to work on Vice-President Goodluck Jonathan to always provide him support if there is any plan to remove him.

For the above tasks, Ogah charged N570,000,000 for which Edem paid in instalments of N220,000,000, N50,000.000 and N40,000.000 respectively amounting to N310,000.000 with a balance of N260.000.000.

According to the sorcerer, at the expiration of the date for Alaibe's demise, which never happened, Edem demanded a refund while Ogah stood his ground that the payment was not completed prompting Edem to report the matter to the police as a case of fraud.

"That after the expiration of the period within which the said Timi Alaibe was to die, the petitioner came to ask me why the charm did not work and I told him that his (Alaibe's) spirit is too strong. On that note he grew annoyed and asked me to refund the money he paid for Timi's work," he said.

The NDDC chairman in his statement at the same Zone 5 Police headquarters, Benin, said he was under a spell when he made the payments.

According to him, "The amount of money the fraudster collected from me through the hypnotic spell is about N800million. The extortion spread over months and were always with death threats to my person and family members, friends and staff".

Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/printable/200808070590.html

RichyBlacK:

Questions for you:

1. Is there anything that is beyond the power of juju?

2. Can you give some examples, if any?

Beyond it. .  i think raising people from the dead.

Spirits can animate a person, but once a person is dead, its dead, and I think thats it.

God gave Satan the power to decieve , you think he is just floating around whispering in people's ears?

Even in Old testament, when Moses came and threw his stick on the ground in front of the pharoh, the pharoh's magicians threw their own and made theirs into a snake as well.

That tells us that juju ( or majic is real) but God always gonna have one up on that one.

Inspite of all the miracles Moses performed, the Pharoh magicians couldnt make the dead ones live again, yet they copied every other thing that Moses did.

mazaje:

Belief in juju is only a product of indoctrination and culture. . . . nothing more. . . . Most people obey the and believe in what their culture believes in and teaches them regardless of how false it is. . . . all juju claims are false and lack any basis in reality. . . .In general, people will believe in the traditional meme of their surrounding environment. . . .

Everybody posting about this topic would do themselves a World of good by studing the basic elements of sociology and anthropology in order to understand man's need to worship things he doesn't understand, things that bring him fear/sadness/joy, and things that seemed to have the potential to enable him conquer his environment.

"Man" in this sentence means every human race on the face of this planet.
It is therefore not surprising that as basic understanding and appreciation of nature(science) has improved, people have become less inclined to worship basic and previously misunderstood items like the lightening, mountains, and the seas.
It is also noticable that where science has blossomed, juju belief seems to have dwindled, conversly, where science has not bloosomed, belief in juju seems to be the order of the day.

Belief in juju and religion seem to be on the same ecclastial pedestal, but ignorance and lack of education have given rise to abuse of the people by fraudlent practioners of both juju and religion.

RichyBlacK:

Let me post a more detailed version for you

No be small thing. . . .

RichyBlacK:

naijaking1,

Good to see that you're still taking out time to educate the Nigerian youths about this grand fraud called juju. My hope is that more Nigerians will embrace science and technology and stop believing that juju can fix bad roads or guarantee regular power supply.

I know of a crisis that broke out once in bauchi state because of hear say stories about a guy that was alleged to have stolen somebody's privates in bauchi state. . . . .even the eye witness all had very very different accounts of what happened. . . .different stories were just going around in the same area and the mob mentality that people decided to use did not even allow the  alleged "culprit" to explain himself at all. . . every body wanted to kill him and before you knew it his hausa brothers were trying to turn it into a religious crisis. . . . Na wah for us ohh. . . . .

platinumnk:

ying and yang.
I dont know the range of Satans ablities, but I think its quite a lot. Satan does not have the power to heal but he can remove aflictions he brought upon someone. It may seem the same , but its not, in Job he asked to put Job under, then after a while of testing, he removed it from him.

I cant explain it further, but I know its real majority is made up, but in cases, juju is real.

Juju is fraud. Juju is not real. Do you know what is real?
Your fear of juju is what is real. Your increased heart rate, your sweating, uncontrolled urination, etc, those are real and those are what's going to kill you before any juju does.

Everybody posting about this topic would do themselves a World of good by studing the basic elements of sociology and anthropology in order to understand man's need to worship things he doesn't understand, things that bring him fear/sadness/joy, and things that seemed to have the potential to enable him conquer his environment.

Thanks mate. But you are probably asking for too much. i think nigerians, just prefer to sit down and blame stuff on the supernatural, even though the supernatural doesnt exist.

naijaking1:

Juju is fraud. Juju is not real. Do you know what is real?
Your fear of juju is what is real. Your increased heart rate, your sweating, uncontrolled urination, etc, those are real and those are what's going to kill you before any juju does.

haahha im not afraid. Trust me ive seen things. . . .
its real alright just because u dont believe doesnt mean it isnt real


and if your trust is in God who are you to be afraid of?
Trying to discredit it isnt going to stop it.  . .
acknowledge it and move on

naijaking1:

Everybody posting about this topic would do themselves a World of good by studing the basic elements of sociology and anthropology in order to understand man's need to worship things he doesn't understand, things that bring him fear/sadness/joy, and things that seemed to have the potential to enable him conquer his environment.

"Man" in this sentence means every human race on the face of this planet.
It is therefore not surprising that as basic understanding and appreciation of nature(science) has improved, people have become less inclined to worship basic and previously misunderstood items like the lightening, mountains, and the seas.
It is also noticable that where science has blossomed, juju belief seems to have dwindled, conversly, where science has not bloosomed, belief in juju seems to be the order of the day.

Belief in juju and religion seem to be on the same ecclastial pedestal, but ignorance and lack of education have given rise to abuse of the people by fraudlent practioners of both juju and religion.

True. Juju and religion can be dangerous. See the stories of children being killed in Nigeria because some stupid pastor said they were witches. If my pastor tells my that my child is a witch, I may go to jail on account of my reaction. In Nigeria, pastors are deceiving people everyday, collecting their hard-earned money, while cruising on private jets. Some pastors also hide under the banner of religion to make fraudulent claims, e.g. accusing any child of being a witch so as to extort money from the parents to "deliver" the child from witchcraft, telling a young female parishioner that God has sanctioned that she gets married to some man of God in the church who is twice her age, etc. In Islam - let's not even go there.

False claims are everywhere - in every human endeavor, you can have false claims. However, the claims made by promoters of juju are the most outlandish claims imaginable - this is what makes them truly unique.

Rblack- how come u didnt reply me?

Im waiting on your response.

platinumnk:

Beyond it. .  i think raising people from the dead.

Spirits can animate a person, but once a person is dead, its dead, and I think thats it.

God gave Satan the power to decieve , you think he is just floating around whispering in people's ears?

Even in Old testament, when Moses came and threw his stick on the ground in front of the pharoh, the pharoh's magicians threw their own and made theirs into a snake as well.

That tells us that juju ( or majic is real) but God always gonna have one up on that one.

Inspite of all the miracles Moses performed, the Pharoh magicians couldnt make the dead ones live again, yet they copied every other thing that Moses did.

So, the only limitation of juju is raising the dead?

Can juju stop the earth's rotation?

RichyBlacK:

So, the only limitation of juju is raising the dead?

Can juju stop the earth's rotation?

I honestly dont know the height of Satans powers, nor do I want to know, because my trust is not in him, nor am I discrediting him.

But speaking of Moses, Moses represented God, and performed Miracles in God's name.

The Magicians also performed Miracles, but who gave them the power?

There in lies your answer that juju is real.

platinumnk:

haahha im not afraid. Trust me ive seen things. . . .
its real alright just because u dont believe doesnt mean it isnt real
and if your trust is in God who are you to be afraid of?
Trying to discredit it isnt going to stop it.  . .
acknowledge it and move on

Try changing the word believe with know, and you will see the difference.
Our people believe that lightening is a direct warning from god, now we know it's just a physical reaction, others:
Believe that twins are evil, we now know that it's just a simple embryological process.
Believe that black cats bring bad omen if seen first thing in the morning, now we know it's just not true.
The list goes on.

Then there are a million unverified anacdectal stories out there, perpetrated by juju practioners to increase their power, keep a strangle hold on ignorant minds, and of course enrich themselves:
Minting fresh naira currency of the scalp of dead and well preserved relatives
Turning people into animals and vis-versa
Throwing pins to affect persons thousands of miles away
Killing anybody(except white people) anywhere on earth by mentioning their names and chanting a few chants, etc.
Other cock-and bull marketing frauds and stories.

Just change believe with know, and your eyes go open well well

^^ Well said, but it is the those who take advantage of people.

There is always going to be frauds, but that doesnt mean it isnt real.


I cant just discredit it as a whole, but I know that a lot of real and also fradulent.