platinumnk:

^^ Well said, but it is the those who take advantage of people.

There is always going to be frauds, but that doesnt mean it isnt real.


I cant just discredit it as a whole, but I know that a lot of real and also fradulent.

Do you know the difference between reality and actuality?
That's why I said that the fear of juju is the only thing real, the rest= fraud.

I guess I spoke too soon, RichyBlack.   but it really does seem to me that you all are overhammering this issue.
Anyway, seeing as to how this discussion is starting to get interesting, allow me to go, finish what I'm doing and come back to add my own 50 kobo.

naijaking1:

Belief in juju and religion seem to be on the same ecclastial pedestal, but ignorance and lack of education have given rise to abuse of the people by fraudlent practioners of both juju and religion.

If more people start making sense like this, there will be no need for me to even consider participating.

naijaking1:

Do you know the difference between reality and actuality?
That's why I said that the fear of juju is the only thing real, the rest= fraud.

yes I do.
I dont fear juju, i know about it, but fear? no

It is though who are ignorant who have fear.

Answer me me about Moses then, was that real or fake?

[Hopefully] my last necessary contribution.

The fundamental basis for both Juju and Religion are the same: Faith and belief in God (or gods or entities/forces), the supernatural (or the unnaturally explained), and man's (human beings') [limited, or unlimited] access to those unnaturally explained resources. The logic behind a claim that Juju is inexistent also extends towards all beliefs in the unnaturally explained, God (or gods or entities/forces), paranormal, etc. etc. So, anyone who holds any kind of religious/unnaturally explained belief, would be contradicting his or herself by claiming that Juju is inexistent. BUT, claiming that the claims made by Juju practitioners/believers are false (or fraudulent) is not, in any way, a contradiction to oneself (if one holds any religious belief), because a claim of [in]capability (or dishonesty) is not the same as a claim of [in]existence. This is what RichyBlack is doing.

[size=15pt]Meaning and defination of juju[/size]

Juju or Ju-Ju is a word of West African origin, derived from the French joujou (toy) [1], that refers to the supernatural power ascribed to an object; or fetish. It can also refer to the use of such objects, making it a form of witchcraft.[2]

"An object of any kind superstitiously venerated by West African native tribes, and used as a charm, amulet, or means of protection; a fetish. Also the supernatural or magical power attributed to such objects, or the system of observances connected therewith; also a ban or interdiction effected by means of such an object (corresponding to the Polynesian taboo)." [3]

The term juju, and the practices associated with it, travelled to the Americas from West Africa with the influx of slaves and still survives in some areas, particularly among the various groups of Maroons, who have tended to preserve their African traditions.
[edit] Footnotes

Juju is an aura or other magical property, usually having to do with spirits or luck, which is bound to a specific object; it is also a term for the object. Juju also refers to the spirits and ghosts in West African lore as a general name. The object that contains the juju, or fetish, can be anything from an elephant’s head to an extinguisher. One of the most popular juju objects in West Africa, for example, is a monkey's hand. In general, juju can only be created by a witch doctor; few exceptions exist. Juju can be summoned by a witch doctor for several purposes. Good juju can cure ailments of mind and body; anything from fractured limbs to a headache can be corrected. Bad juju is used to exact revenge, soothe jealousy, and cause misfortune. Contrary to common belief, voodoo is not related to juju, despite the linguistic and spiritual similarities. Juju has acquired some karmic attributes in more recent times. Good juju can stem from almost any good deed: saving a kitten, or returning a lost book. Bad juju can be spread just as easily. These ideas revolve around the luck and fortune portions of juju. The use of juju to describe an object usually involves small items worn or carried; these generally contain medicines produced by witch doctors.

ref:http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/4155771

The concept of juju pervades the whole World, but I agree that juju is more a West African nomenclature. However, the same concept applies to native Indians, Gothic sun worshippers, European Druids, Japanese Shinto worshippers, etc
You would also notice that the more these cultures have advanced in science and technology, the less they emphasize their own juju equivalence.
Also, look at the regions that still widely practice juju today: wset Africa, south America, Haiti, all are undeveloped.

Yes there is juju, juju jus pass juju, lol. Imagine someone is America or anywhere in the world for that matter can speak into a small box and hear a voice from another part of the world, that na oyinbo juju for u, it' called "SCIENCE". It's practically the only thing that has improved and still improves our lives since the dawn of time. Even though there are still somethings out there we do not understand, the concept of juju is totally false. Its a contraption created to keep people in line just like religion. To all those who believe in African bullet vest, I say wow. Africa needs to get out of these nonsense beliefs if we are ever going to move forward, we need to switch up our juju game, the new game in town is science. The oyibo man came, saw and conquered Africa, whats good is our juju if it can't even save us from slavery of self and of the mind that still persists today, juju my ass!!!!!!!!! I beg commot 4 road jo!!!!!!!!

Also, look at the regions that still widely practice juju today: wset Africa, south America, Haiti, all are undeveloped.



Cause these beliefs keep the human mind and imagination in bondage. During the dark ages in Europe these kinds of beliefs persisted hence the term dark ages, science and tech was suppressed

skyjuice:

Yes there is juju, juju jus pass juju, lol. Imagine someone is America or anywhere in the world for that matter can speak into a small box and hear a voice from another part of the world, that na oyinbo juju for u, it' called "SCIENCE". It's practically the only thing that has improved and still improves our lives since the dawn of time. Even though there are still somethings out there we do not understand, the concept of juju is totally false. Its a contraption created to keep people in line just like religion. To all those who believe in African bullet vest, I say wow. Africa needs to get out of these nonsense beliefs if we are ever going to move forward, we need to switch up our juju game, the new game in town is science. The oyibo man came, saw and conquered Africa, whats good is our juju if it can't even save us from slavery of self and of the mind that still persists today, juju my ass!!!!!!!!! I beg commot 4 road jo!!!!!!!!

I like that. I, too like the juju wey dey make person fly for air like bird

Also, look at the regions that still widely practice juju today: wset Africa, south America, Haiti, all are undeveloped.

Not just underdeveloped, the only people practicing it at the black ppl of these regions,

I like that. I, too like the juju wey dey make person fly for air like bird


lol, am telling u our juju na windows 95, dem don dey use windos 7. We need to upgrade jo!!!!!!!! lol

Afam
RichyBlack

From the above it can be clearly seen that juju is not just an object , charm, amulet, fetish or magical power attributed to such objects, or the system of observances connected therewith; rather it encompasses the belief of a people, the religion of a generation: its a complete social and cultural way of life. To labelled that body of philosophy and human cultural heritage as fraudulent is unforgivable. RichyBlack clearly err in his judgement and conclusion.

Afam hold a mirror for us to view the reflection of our image and challenge the sincerity of our heart. If you labelled juju as fraudulent , then you will have to labelled Christianity as fraudulent too. Juju , just like Christianity is a belief and a religion. There are certain aspect of juju that those not obey the natural scientific law; the same apply to Christianity.

For example Pastor Chris, Adeboye and all those miracle workers claim to have power to cure and perform unbelievable miracles. Most of these claims disobey all known scientific laws, and have never been independently verified. Despite the fact it make no logic nor sense, most people believe them. Its all dogma


Juju should be respected and given it proper honour .

bilymuse:

Afam
RichyBlack

From the above it can be clearly seen that juju is not just an object , charm, amulet, fetish or magical power attributed to such objects, or the system of observances connected therewith; rather it encompasses the belief of a people, the religion of a generation: its a complete social and cultural way of life. To labelled that body of philosophy and human cultural heritage as fraudulent is unforgivable. RichyBlack clearly err in his judgement and conclusion.

Afam hold a mirror for us to view the reflection of our image and challenge the sincerity of our heart. If you labelled juju as fraudulent , then you will have to labelled Christianity as fraudulent too. Juju , just like Christianity is a belief and a religion. There are certain aspect of juju that those not obey the natural scientific law; the same apply to Christianity.

For example Pastor Chris, Adeboye and all those miracle workers claim to have power to cure and perform unbelievable miracles. Most of these claims disobey all known scientific laws, and have never been independently verified. Despite the fact it make no logic nor sense, most people believe them. Its all dogma

Juju should be respected and given it proper honour .

There's a difference between traditional African religion and juju. Juju is a practice that emanated from traditional African religion. Being an emanation, it's subject to different interpretations. Like in every religion, African traditional region also has its own charlatans who refuse to accept new ideas mostly for their own selfish interest.
African traditional religion should be respected, but the practice of juju as we know it today in nothing but a big fraud.

bilymuse:

Afam
RichyBlack

From the above it can be clearly seen that juju is not just an object , charm, amulet, fetish or magical power attributed to such objects, or the system of observances connected therewith; rather it encompasses the belief of a people, the religion of a generation: its a complete social and cultural way of life. To labelled that body of philosophy and human cultural heritage as fraudulent is unforgivable. RichyBlack clearly err in his judgement and conclusion.

Afam hold a mirror for us to view the reflection of our image and challenge the sincerity of our heart. If you labelled juju as fraudulent , then you will have to labelled Christianity as fraudulent too. Juju , just like Christianity is a belief and a religion. There are certain aspect of juju that those not obey the natural scientific law; the same apply to Christianity.

For example Pastor Chris, Adeboye and all those miracle workers claim to have power to cure and perform unbelievable miracles. Most of these claims disobey all known scientific laws, and have never been independently verified. Despite the fact it make no logic nor sense, most people believe them. Its all dogma


Juju should be respected and given it proper honour .

This is absolute rubbish!

Are there religious priests who are fraudulent? Absolutely. However, the entire basis of juju is to trick people into believing that ANYTHING can be solved using juju. Ask the typical Nigerian who believes in this fraud "Can juju do X?" Their answer is typically yes, no matter what X is. This childish reasoning is based on the view that Satan, the provider of juju power, is all-powerful and can do anything - another joke.

ChinenyeN:

[Hopefully] my last necessary contribution.

The fundamental basis for both Juju and Religion are the same: Faith and belief in God (or gods or entities/forces), the supernatural (or the unnaturally explained), and man's (human beings') [limited, or unlimited] access to those unnaturally explained resources. The logic behind a claim that Juju is inexistent also extends towards all beliefs in the unnaturally explained, God (or gods or entities/forces), paranormal, etc. etc. So, anyone who holds any kind of religious/unnaturally explained belief, would be contradicting his or herself by claiming that Juju is inexistent. BUT, claiming that the claims made by Juju practitioners/believers are false (or fraudulent) is not, in any way, a contradiction to oneself (if one holds any religious belief), because a claim of [in]capability (or dishonesty) is not the same as a claim of [in]existence. This is what RichyBlack is doing.

I agree with the post above. Thanks for making it crystal clear that RichyBlack is contradicting himself over and over again.

He believes in the magic, miracles, unexplainable events recorded in the bible even when they defied all known physical laws without any evidence, logic, proof etc while explaining that away as faith.

Yet, he has the audacity to claim that juju does not exist because it is convenient for him to say so.

In reality, many of us are just follow follow people who hold very contradictory views and opinions even on religious issues. Identity and belief crisis I call this.

Quite a number of us are typing away on our pcs making all sorts of claims and counter claims but in reality would refuse to cross a gate or door way that has just palm fronds, red cloth or calabash with a cooked egg for fear of any consequences that might befall them.

That is the reality and that is the plain hypocrisy that is obvious to any discerning mind on this issue.

Apart from the fellow that claims he does not believe in God or even Satan every other person that believes in any religion and claims that juju does not exist because they defy physical laws is contradicting himself or herself and such a person is suffering from serious identity and belief crisis.

Even the bible clearly stated (for the christains amongst us here) that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places (Eph 6:12).

If the bible makes this statement then it means that we have powers above and beyond flesh and blood and consequently above and beyond all the people that have made the physical laws that we quote all the time.

Until I read comments based on objectivity on this topic I am off to other things where people who are not to arrogant to accept their mistakes or lack of knowledge on anything are discussing.

People who have mindsets based on ignorance are claiming that Nigeria is not making progress because of juju. How can an educated mind learn anything when the mind believes everything has been understood?

Incomplete list of some of the fraudulent claims of proponents of the fraud called juju in Nigeria:

01. Juju can make you brilliant in school.
02. Juju can make you pass the following exams in flying colors: UME, SSCE, GMAT, SAT, GRE, LSAT, etc.
03. Juju can bring down a plane flying at 36,000 feet.
04. Juju can give you protection against bullets from a gun - any gun!
05. Juju can stop the earth's rotation (I'm not kidding, one of the many juju believers told me this!)
06. Juju can make you the richest man in the world.
07. Juju can make you fly like a bird.
08. Juju can turn a human corpse into crisp currency notes of any denomination - naira, dollar, pounds, etc.
09. Juju can make any organ in your body disappear instantly!
10. Juju can make any object to disappear, including the earth, moon, sun, etc.
11. Juju can make you see dead people.
12. Juju can make you get any political position you want, including becoming the president.
13. Juju can make a community victorious in war against any foe.
14. Juju can cure any disease in this world, including HIV/AIDS, cancer, diabetes, Parkinson's disease, etc.
15. Juju can make you kill anybody anywhere in the universe - even if the person is an astronaut in space, the juju will get him/her and kill the person.
16. Juju can solve any mystery, including determining who killed John F. Kennedy, Bola Ige, etc.
17. Juju can make any woman/man fall in love with you.
18. Juju can make you see the future
19. Juju can bring back any dead person to life, instantly!
20. Juju can make you get any job you desire.
21. Juju can make you look beautiful/handsome.
22. Juju can make you stay underwater for an infinite amount of time.
23. Juju can make you walk into fire, magma, molten metal, etc. and come out alive!
24. Juju can make you see spirits, ghosts, etc.
25. Juju can stop a nuclear bomb!
26. Juju can give you power to ground the internet.
27. Juju can make any nation win the world cup.
28. Juju can make any nation get the highest number of gold medals in the Olympics.
29. Juju can make you run faster than Usain Bolt.
30. Juju can transform you into any animal of your choice - cat, dog, goat, elephant, rat, pig, etc.

This list of fraudulent claims is by no means complete.

If you have others please post!

The above list illustrates Juju believers' axiomatic conviction that there simply are no laws of science in ANY discipline, and that anything conceived in the imagination of any person is automatically plausible, possible and likely to occur in the real world. 

The conscious, philosophical choice to flat deny the existence of any demarcation between the imaginary and the real happens to be one of the most readily observable behavioral indicators of acute mental imbalance, and societies populated by disproportionate numbers of such space-cadets are imperiled on many levels, as in the classic case-study provided by Nigeria, where ritual fetish murderers compete for body-count tallies against "witch"-killing street mobs, who chase down and slay the innocent in broad daylight.   

These capital crimes, among myriad others, comprise the TRUE cost of African superstition and voodoo belief.

Jakumo:

The above list illustrates Juju believers' axiomatic conviction that there simply are no laws of science in ANY discipline, and that anything conceived in the imagination of any person is automatically plausible, possible and likely to occur in the real world. 

The conscious, philosophical choice to flat deny the existence of any demarcation between the imaginary and the real happens to be one of the most readily observable behavioral indicators of acute mental imbalance, and societies populated by disproportionate numbers of such space-cadets are imperiled on many levels, as in the classic case-study provided by Nigeria, where ritual fetish murderers compete for body-count tallies against "witch"-killing street mobs, who chase down and slay the innocent in broad daylight.   

These capital crimes, among myriad others, comprise the TRUE cost of African superstition and voodoo belief.

Wicked!

Can you guys get back to the topic at hand?

If it is not possible because doing so will always expose the hypocrisy in us then let us at least stop creating unnecessary diversions.

Colonial mentality at work. Believes everything the white man says while dismissing anything that the black man says. And we still wonder why the views and the instructions of some of the Western worlds are being forced down on us in Nigeria - There are no shortages of willing agents to spread and propagate their biddings.

Enjoy the weekend ahead.

It is common to hear from someone who is missing the point tell others that they are missing the point so when some of us talk about science I laugh because I know a lot to even make me question religion or God but based on what I have chosen to believe as regards Christianity I simply draw a line between the logic that may simply throw everything away.

So, even people who are experts in type writing can come here and tell some of us that we do not respect science even when some of us sleep and wake up on science.

Fraud has no color!

Juju claims are fraudulent claims not unlike the claims made by 419 proponents.

I bet that 419 started when juju proponents found out that people don dey taya to fall mugu for decrepit old men with horrible dentition tucked away in remote parts of unknown forests throwing cowries on the ground and claiming to speak to Ogbongogodikobiaga

Pictures of juju fraudsters:

[img]http://4.bp..com/_2W_sHpRGHcY/SZwZfgA3sDI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/NkUQ2TTrQX4/s400/juju.jpg[/img]

Excellent article on juju fraud: http://danfoundation.org/cases/cases.html

I must admit, some of those pictures are funny while some shouldn't be there especially the one with the full picture of the victim. At least, we should respect the sensibilities of the people the girl left behind from friends to family members.

Can't imagine myself in any of those costume abi na work uniform even if N1M dey table.

However, it does not matter whether you believe juju exist or not. Just don't gamble with your life in the process of trying to prove it doesn't exist because I have seen things that defy physical laws and on all the occasions I was neither drunk nor had eye problems.

I am not an advocate of juju. As an open minded person I have seen enough to know that such supernatural powers exist and I believe the bible admits that much.

Funny enough, some of us have twisted issues just to justify their positions.

My first response on this thread was about seeing if any good can come out of such powers considering the fact that every single event I have witnessed has to do with violence, guns etc.

A fact is a fact whether you agree or not.

That is why people have from 1% to 100% in examinations because your answers are compared to those that are correct not what you think is correct.

Afam:

I must admit, some of those pictures are funny. Can't imagine myself in any of those costume abi na work uniform.

However, it does not matter whether you believe juju exist or not. Just don't gamble with your life in the process of trying to prove it doesn't exist because I have seen things that defy physical laws and on all the occasions I was neither drunk nor had eye problems.

I am not an advocate of juju. As an open minded person I have seen enough to know that such supernatural powers exist and I believe the bible admits that much.

Funny enough, some of us have twisted issues just to justify their positions.

My first response on this thread was about seeing if any good can come out of such powers considering the fact that every single event I have witnessed has to do with violence, guns etc.

A fact is a fact whether you agree or not.

That is why people have from 1% to 100% in examinations because your answers are compared to those that are correct not what you think is correct.

So, why did the following happen as recorded in the 22 February 1897 Hansard (the traditional name for the printed transcripts of parliamentary debates in the Westminster system of government)?

Corroborated by the following:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Expedition_of_1897
2. http://www.arm.arc.co.uk/lootingBenin.html
3. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Benin_Empire

One would have thought that with all the juju the Oba of Benin is reputed to have, the British forces would have been turned to frogs and smashed by the powerful juju men.

That did not happen. The Oba of Benin was captured, put in shackles and exiled to Calabar.

The photograph below was taken in 1897.


Oba Ovonramwen with guards on board ship on his way to exile in Calabar in 1897. The unusual gown he is wearing hides his shackles. From the Howie photo album in the archives of the Merseyside Maritime Museum. Photo by the Ibani Ijo photographer J A Green

Your logic is flawed.

One could as well ask why there is evil in the land. Does mean that God is incapable of tackling evil?

On a lighter note, one may deduce from the photograph you posted that the Nigerians working for the British may have helped to destroy the juju the Oba relied on so could be the reason for his capture.

My referencing these historic documents regarding the Oba of Benin and the fall of the Benin Empire in 1897 is not to make any ridicule of the Great Benin Empire but to highlight the fact that those who attribute special powers to juju are fraudsters.

When it mattered most, when human-sacrifice was routinely ordered by the Oba to appease the juju, when juju proponents controlled every aspect of life, when the survival of the empire was at stake, what happened?

Juju proponents clashed with diligent students of Newton! The outcome was easily predictable! No juju could contend with the British forces! Reason? Juju proponents did not realize that the laws of nature cannot be violated!

Afam:

Your logic is flawed.

One could as well ask why there is evil in the land. Does mean that God is incapable of tackling evil?

My point is simple:

The British, having great minds like Newton that explained some of the laws of nature, especially the laws of motion and gravity, laws that govern the terrestrial and the celestial, were simply too powerful for people who taught sacrificing an innocent virgin would fortify them against the projectiles from British guns!

Juju bowed to physics!

Afam:

Your logic is flawed.

One could as well ask why there is evil in the land. Does mean that God is incapable of tackling evil?

God gave man freewill and evil lies in the heart of men. Hence, as long as humans exist and possess the freewill to do as they choose, evil will always exist.

RichyBlacK:

God gave man[b] freewill [/b] and evil lies in the heart of men. Hence, as long as humans exist and possess the freewill to do as they choose, evil will always exist.

Ol boy you don try for this juju education-o.
I commend your patience and hard work for the research you have done so far. Many people will not understand the concept of freewill, nature vs nurture, and the principles of fatality. A modern day Socrates or Pluto could be walking around this forum, and yet people wouldn't understand or agree to one word he would be saying.

come was, oba ovonramen that short- i think that is the only interesting thing I am gleaning from thsi article.