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Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by damogul: 12:14pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
AnonyNymous: Are you sure you are yet to see the bolded? Want to take a poll? |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by Nobody: 12:17pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
damogul:I've seen 'Yahweh isn't real'. I've seen, 'Allah is just your imagination' but I've never seen anyone state explicitly that there is NO GOD in any way/form, etc. Even oga Seun himself has once suggested pantheist leanings, asking a Christian why they couldn't believe the universe itself is god. |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:17pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
ScepticalPyrrho: The paradigm has now changed since you took a hiatus bro . We are now saying that Nature serves as evidence for God and the atheists rejecting this evidence does not invalidate it . The atheists now have to provide evidence that shows God does not exist . And Atheism should not be defined as lack of belief or absence of belief . Because atheism has to be an explicit conscious rejection of God(s) . Just like what Diagoras of Melos did and became the first atheist in History . |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by LiberaDeus: 12:19pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
damogul: Am sorry Mr man. You have come to know what I don't know but you can't offer proof of it. Do you know how that sounds? I know that there are UFOs . I have come to know that aliens exist cause I have one with me in the room now. If you like doubt it that's your business. You can't have or know what i share with my extraterrestrial friend. I can make this claim for 4000 years like your Jewish and Christian brethren have done and no one can disprove it . Have you searched the whole world to know my alien friend doesn't exist. Even if you can't see him, I can assure you that he is invisible and you can never know. That's how you Christians sound. I don't have time for insults. I don't have to investigate all gods in the world to come to that conclusion. Religious people across the world make claims about universal gods and fail to provide proof of it and you think I should believe it. Since I haven't investigated them all, you know what, I will believe in all the gods that have ever existed since the beginning of history. I can't disprove Zeus, Ra, Odin, Baal, Allah, Brahman. So I will believe the possibility that they exist in short I will believe them alongside Yahweh. Its when you now try to tell me to drop just one of them like Brahman that's when I will tell you to apply the same reasons to Yahweh and lets know whether or not he should exist. As for your claims of knowing god and I not knowing. I can categorically tell you that if your so called knowing can't be corroborated in reality then they are no different from that of lunatic in an asylum. 11 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:22pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
AnonyNymous: Atheists who have said there is no God ? - Diagoras of Melos - Theodorus The Atheist - Euhemerus. If you have not consciously and explicitly rejected the existence of God , you are not an atheist . If you are not certain God does not exist , you are not an atheist . |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by Nobody: 12:26pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
KingEbukasBlog: Could you define the term 'Agnostic Atheist' then? |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by ScepticalPyrrho: 12:28pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
damogul:I'm not one of such atheist. As I said I'm not one. But I'm also compelled to make such assertions, because there are numerous Gods of numerous religions. If there is a God which implies perfection, omniscience, omnipotent then the world would be a better place. It is a conclusion from deduction and it is the opinion of the claimant. But for the sake of arguments, I don't make such assertions not because it isn't most likely, but because of your likes who misunderstand the position is to be replied by providing proofs. |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by LiberaDeus: 12:33pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
PDBonline: I don't know why you don't read my posts totally and jump to conclusions. I am not an atheist but an agnostic. I never made a claim that no god exists. My belief is that there is most likely a number of higher intelligent beings[ call it god or not] that exist in the universe and can most likely exist in other universes. I can't claim that I know how or when or why the universe was created. Its you theists that make that extraordinary claim so you guys must prove it. You are funny. Do you know that your acceptance of Christianity is a hasty generalization that you took most likely when you were younger and didn't think critically. Examine these facts - you are alive and you know you came from somewhere -you know the earth must come from somewhere and something can't come from nothing - you see inherent design in nature and purpose Considering these facts above, you jumped into a conclusion that a god specifically created the universe and his name is Yahweh, his sons name is Jesus, he chose the jews as his chosen people. That's a very big mother of all leaps and a very hasty generalization. You did this most likely because it was introduced to you at a very young age when you couldn't object or think critically. You might have decided to become more devout as you grew older for reasons best known to you. When I left christianity, I undid the hasty generalization that I did when I was younger and when I was older. The logical stance is to wait for incontrovertible proof of your gods existence not accepting it by blind faith. Don't wait for me to give you proof. I am not an atheist. As you are waiting for atheists to give you proof I hope one day you will open a thread that shows how the universe was purposely created by your Yahweh. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:34pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
AnonyNymous: Bro . All those labels are unnecessary . |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 12:36pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
AnonyNymous: It is the theology or knowledge of God based on observed facts and experience apart from divine revelation. Read more here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_theology |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by Nobody: 12:41pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
PDBonline:The problem is that you are yet to define GOD and EXIST. when can we say that A EXISTS? |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by PDBonline: 12:45pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
ScepticalPyrrho:I agree with KingEbukasBlog and damogul. You guys should stop this "I don't need to proof anything" stuff. You make claims. If I ask you, and you show us preferred way to test any claim and that's simply what we are asking to do to your claim. But I will also want to add that a refusal to accept a proof as so is different from lack of proof. In fact, the fact that the evidence is vague, doesn't give you the authority to claim that it is not true. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by PDBonline: 12:49pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
Or may be I should ask you SkepticalPyrrho and others: "Do you believe God exist?" If your honest answer is "No". Tell us how you came to that conclusion scientifically without arguing against other people's believes. Just give us scientific evidence in support of yours- enough to justify that. |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by felixomor: 12:51pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
KingEbukasBlog: Hehehehe Wahala dey. The apetheist desperation is real. Very soon monikers will be exhausted. U go dey see monikers like coldNinja, Iceblock, blackLandlord, I laff in hebrew. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by dalaman: 1:00pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
I've been seeing many theist here (christians and muslims,) arguing about how their religion and God is true and those that do not accept their religion/ God are either blind, arrogant or foolish. What I have never heard from any of the theist arguing in support of one religion/ God or the other is providing an objective and incontrovertible way through which we will all test and know which religion/ God is true. How do we objectively know which God exists and controls thrle world and which God is false and vice versa? Where is the objective test to prove any of these religious claim? What methodology can be used to test and verify the existence of God that is objective to all? How can other religions/Gods also be shown to be false, what methodology do they need to fail for us to know that they are false? Instead of repeating what you have been coerced and indoctrinated with since childhood mostly, why don't the theist here do something different and show us with objective evidence why their religion/God is true and other religions/Gods are false. The theist making the claim that God exist should provide objective evidence that their Gods exist so that when we come in contact with it we will know for sure that it is their God and not some other phenomenon. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by felixomor: 1:04pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman: Sorry. Its sad to say, but has to be said. Atheism isnt about evidence. It has never been. I can almost for certain declare that no type of evidence (be it video or written) can satisfy you. Atheism is far from evidence. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by PDBonline: 1:04pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
Blackbolt:You should take a dictionary and start from there. But really, when I say God. I mean the Eternal Being through whom everything else derives origin; the omnipotent and omniscient. Exist means real. Now, if you decide to change the topic again, I won't respond to you. All what I'm asking for is how an atheist who claims God is not real came to that conclusion, logically and scientifically. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by jonbellion(m): 1:07pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
LiberaDeus:this is exactly what I say These creationists never understand and would be quick to throw insults It's more that obvious they have comprehension problems |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by dalaman: 1:08pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
felixomor: When you have any evidence for your beliefs provide it and lets examine it as stated. If you have non then move along. We don't have time to listen to your criesand rants . 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by felixomor: 1:13pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman: Its always been the atheists crying and ranting. As seen even on this religious forum. The finger is on you. By the way, I maintain the the point, Atheism has never been about evidence. It is only a way to the devil helps people to suppress their God-given conscience against sin. Nothing more. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by PDBonline: 1:22pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman:Did you check the title or read the post before commenting? I guess you are in the wrong place. I have never seen an atheist who considers anything presented as evidence for God so. Meaning that you they already know who God is? There own idea? Maybe. So if you may start by letting us know the God you have searched for and did not find and how you knew that this is what God should look like and this is what he should do or not do. You can't ask someone to bring up an evidence without knowing what you are looking for. Also before you ask for such evidence, like you demand, do you have any scientific basis by which you know beyond reasonable doubt that if God is real it is most certain that He will be revealed that way? You most have known God to come up with such. Now that you wouldn't listen to the how of those who claim to know God, why bother ask them to produce any evidence? Just use that standard you require for your own claim. That's what this is about. If you don't have a claim, then this post is not addressed to you. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by damogul: 1:31pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
ScepticalPyrrho: If you are not one then stop butting into threads that do ot comply with your worldview because obviously for such a thread as this to exist there are atheists who do not share your opinion |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by dalaman: 1:33pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
PDBonline: Personally I came to the conclusion that no God exist base Gods are man made ideas and conception. No God can be shown to exist on its on independent of man's input and societal acceptance. Men sat down and invented what ever concept of God they imagined based on various reasons. Gods do not exist in reality. Belief in the idea of God is what is real. Men had to write what ever story that comes to their minds about what ever concept of God they imagined. Men had to created the theology and doctrines that will cement and make the God idea they created acceptable to others. Men have to speared the word about what ever concept of God they imagined and explain it to others. Men have to build all the religious temples and convert others to their religion and make them follow what ever God concept they created. Men have to fight for their various Gods. Enforce what ever system of morality they have come to associate with what ever form of God they created. This is simple, 4000 years Ra was the very powerful God of ancient Egypt. Now nobody believes in that God idea any more and that God is dead, same applies to Zues and the other Greek Gods. Most of the Mayan and South and North American Gods are no more because no one believes in them. Same with most of our traditional African Gods. We don't even know the names of the Gods our ancestors worshiped like 2000 years ago. 4000 years ago the God Allah as we know it today wasn't in existence until Mohammed introduced the God concept and went about conquerin people and making sure they accept that God. 3000 years ago there was no God called Jesus that was worshiped by anybody until the Romans came conquered most parts of the world and introduced that God concept to their subjects. Once people stop believing in a God that idea dies off. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by PDBonline: 1:34pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
LiberaDeus, jonbellion if you are agnostic and you are here, you created the confusion because the title is clear. Nevertheless if you have a claim that it is not possible to know whether or not God exist, you may want to provide the same Scientific proof of how you arrived at that believe. It's the same as you've asked theists. I have previously stated that lack of capacity to know on your part doesn't equal impossibility. And you cannot call other people's personal experiences as false because you don't believe it. You don't believe it is different from it is not true or it is not reliable. |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by damogul: 1:37pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman: You said 4000 yrs ago right? In fact i can even say 8000 yrs ago probably other gods existed. How old are you dalaman? 10000 yrs old? Were you there when the alleged God idea was created by man? Can you show us proof? |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by Deicide: 1:40pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
KingEbukasBlog:Nawa o |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by dalaman: 1:40pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
PDBonline: I was once a christian and I truly searched for the Christian God only to realize that like all other Gods he's just a man made idea. You can't ask someone to bring up an evidence without knowing what you are looking for. Also before you ask for such evidence, like you demand, do you have any scientific basis by which you know beyond reasonable doubt that if God is real it is most certain that He will be revealed that way? I was once a christian am when I speak of God in speak about the Christian idea and conception. [You most have known God to come up with such. Now that you wouldn't listen to the how of those who claim to know God, why bother ask them to produce any evidence? I am.listening. Jut provide your objective and incontrovertible evidence that your God exist. |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by damogul: 1:42pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman: You said 4000 yrs ago right? In fact i can even say 8000 yrs ago probably other gods existed. How old are you dalaman? 10000 yrs old? Were you there when the alleged God idea was created by man? Can you show us proof? I have a right to demand for the kind of proof i want same way atheists demand to see an amputee healed. Can you show me tangible proof to your claim and not theories. |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by damogul: 1:43pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman: Saying you were once a Christian is no proof to your claim. I am a Christian and have been for 30yrs of my life so our positions differ so can you show me real tangible proof to your claim 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by dalaman: 1:44pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
damogul: Historically speaking 4000 years ago the people in Egypt believe in Ra as their supreme God. Their halographs are there for all to see. The Egyptian book of the dead I still there. I don't need to be there to know. God are man made ideas that is why there are different Gods. All created by men. If the white men had not conquered your land and forced your ancestors to worship their own God you would have been somewhere worshipping the verson of God/ Gods of your acestors imagined and created. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by damogul: 1:48pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman: You seem not to get my question. I do not want theories. I want proof that you were there when the first idea of God was formed. The Egyptians whom you claimed created the idea of Ra were you there when it all began and saw how it began? If yes then show me proof. If i was there when my mom died and i suddenly start telling you my mom is dead i should be able to take you to her grave or at least show you pictures of her burial as proof that i know what i am saying or i was there. What do you have to offer? |
Re: Why Do Atheists Shift The Burden Of Proof? by PDBonline: 1:49pm On Dec 17, 2016 |
dalaman:dalaman, you are making those claims again. In logic it's called begging the question: providing what is essentially the conclusion as the premise. You also used hasty generalization You essentially provided more of what is called logical fallacy. To conclude that Gods are man made idea, you must have interacted with every man that ever claimed to believe in God in the history of humanity and must have proven that all of them had the same story to tell. |
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