violent:

Question is are those people on Watch list properly monitored around the world? if yes, then the fault is entirely American's, and if no, why do they need the watch list anyway?

exactly my point. His name was sent to US for clearance while at Amsterdam. I mean common security sense would have indicated that he should have been double checked with his name being on the watch list.

I give a whole lot of blame to US security system too.

jay bee:

All the US needs to do is make everyone travelling to US register online a day before travelling like the people from current visa waiver countries do. By doing this the names can then be checked against whatever lists the government posses before hand and in turn screen out questionable characters for special screening.

The world technology is far advanced than that, they probably don't even need a day!

Not many Nigerians would have summoned the courage to do what Alhaji Umaru Mutallab did by reporting the suspecting terrorist tendencies of his son to the united state.

You know Uncle Sam and greed. If ordinary Nigerian who wants to go there and work hard goes to an American Embassy, they will not get him a pass (US Visa) but here they have given Umar multiple entry visa. That is how they will get al-qaeda folks into their country and start crying blue murder.

Something just can't connect as far as i am concerned. You son stopped communicating, prior to that ceaation of communication, he has been a good boy,schooling in UK. now why report his "disapearance" to US gov, when he is actually supposed to be missing in UK.
Me think they have not said all they know about his activities and what they suspect to be happening to him during his disapearance act. Just don't get me wrong here, i apprecite their action in reporting him to relevant authorities and hope every other parent should emulate them, but i am just confused on the motive that made them report him to Nig and US security agencies, if he has been a good boy with no questionable character.
The family should be forthright in their account, so we know who to blame and who not to blame.If your son goes missing, you don't go to secret agent,no,you go to the police.If you suspect your son is turning into a terrorist,you alert secret agents and trans-international security agents (Just like they did). But tuening ropund to tell me he has been a very good boy before then, i seem not to understand.

OAM4J:

There is no reason to put all suspects on a NO-FLY LIST. He was meant to be monitored and double checked when entering the US.

Ok!! But this incident happened even before touching ground in the US. So, the double checking should have taken place in Amsterdam, right? Or do we expect flight attendants to do that too?

OAM4J:

Let us assume the security check at MMA was flawed, how did he beat the security check at Amsterdam especially after sending his name to US for clearance and US knowing he is on the Watch list?

Ok!!!  Sending his name to the US for security clearance still would not have put him on a no-fly list automatically. I mean the guy had the bomb strapped around his legs for pete’s sake.

OAM4J:

Let us share the blames to all concerned. The US security system also failed.

Not saying blame ought not to be shared as it should but terror detection can never be 100% especially in a case like this.  There will be cases were persons Not even on any watch list would try to blow up planes. It happened with the shoe bomber.

violent:

The world technology is far advanced than that, they probably don't even need a day!

Exactly. Clearance is giving to  Airline securities within hours.

Kobojunkie:

I completely disagree with you there. So what you are saying is that I believe what is fed me until I get the rest of the story before I even start thinking I might not having gotten the whole? Gosh dude!!!  That is definitely not how it works with people who use their heads, don’t you think?

We have not gotten ALL the info is reason for me to wonder what more is to come!!! That is usually the way it works in most human minds. And you may not like what I have revealed there of what I think is to come, but don’t tell me I have no right to think. Lol

all i'm simply saying is it's a whole better to reason based on facts not conjectures.

Kobojunkie:

Uummm . . . .  Usually people wonder what the parents may be hiding!!! It is common sense to do that.

Please desist from turning this into yet another US vs THEM thread on Nairaland. I hate those.

this def ain't a US vs Them thread but it's a valid example/question that you haven't answered.
why didn't u suspect the other families with the same scenario?
I'm just trying to get my head round your idea of the dad maybe not letting out on all he knows

violent:

Question is are those people on Watch list properly monitored around the world? if yes, then the fault is entirely American's, and if no, why do they need the watch list anyway?

I don't think that is the question at all. However, it does depend on your interpretation of what it means to be on a watchlist. If you expect that means you are followed around 24/7, which I don't even believe it means, then maybe you would expect such.

I think the boys father is a liar. I also think there is a conspiracy theory to the whole issue. I think the talk of the father telling nigeria security agencies and intl security agency of his sons behaviour is a complete falsehood as well. This is becos if you have ever lived in nigeria- you will understand that - no wealthy family will ever report their kids in that manner. No matter how bad they are- even if they are known cultist who kill people. They wont. Also consider how corrupt nigerian government officials are - they will go out of their way to influence things to favour them.
My best guess is that the father is up to sometin with the US to highten fear on another Alqeada threat- to commit americans to commit funds to the fight against Alqeada. Alqeada that dont exist. Honestly i dont trust international media, like CNN BBC etc. When the telll u anytin - pls try to hav a rethink about it and ask questions again.
I might be wrong- but i stand to be corrected. Afterall the invasion of iraq and afganistan started on such false statements -that was originated and was hightened contiously by this same BBC CNN and other western media ally,

Kobojunkie:

Ok!! But this incident happened even before touching ground in the US. So, the double checking should have taken place in Amsterdam, right? Or do we expect flight attendants to do that too?

Ok!!!  Sending his name to the US for security clearance still would not have put him on a no-fly list automatically. I mean the guy had the bomb strapped around his legs for pete’s sake.


Not saying blame ought not to be shared as it should but terror detection can never be 100% especially in a case like this.  There will be cases were persons Not even on any watch list would try to blow up planes. It happened with the shoe bomber.

Sure. Because the clearance was gotten at Amsterdam. I wonder why the clearance did not include his being double checked b4 enterring the plane at Amsterdam knowing fully well he is on the watch list. The reason why I blame US security system.

The dude is on American watch list
He is on British watch list
His father has reported him to the American embassy
and he still manage to get a bomb on a plane!

Why have him on a watch list if you are not going to watch him?, sounds like someone is being a clown

jay bee:

all i'm simply saying is it's a whole better to reason based on facts not conjectures.

Not in this case my friend!

Kobojunkie:

I have a theory myself, what if the father was OK being a donor to the group but when his son decided to volunteer as a suicide bomber for the group, the father, in an attempt to save his life, decided to warn the authorities. It is just a thought but I just don’t believe this all started only 2 months ago and I suspect the father possibly knows more than we know of the situation right now.

It is not WRONG to hypothesize!

jay bee:


this def ain't a US vs Them thread but it's a valid example/question that you haven't answered.
why didn't u suspect the other families with the same scenario?
I'm just trying to get my head round your idea of the dad maybe not letting out on all he knows

First I didn’t mean USA vs THEM, I meant Us(we) vs Them thread. That you are slowly turning my THOUGHT into a “What if NOT MUSLIM and WHAT IF AMERICA” case, immediately sets the flags off on your intentions here.

How do you know I did not suspect the other family with the same? Do you read minds as well?

Kobojunkie:



How do you know I did not suspect the other family with the same? Do you read minds as well?

well this is your chance to answer then. did u also have a reservation when they did the SAME thing?
if u did then why

OAM4J:

Sure. Because the clearance was gotten at Amsterdam. I wonder why the clearance did not include his being double checked b4 enterring the plane at Amsterdam knowing fully well he is on the watch list. The reason why I blame US security system.

How do you know he was not double checked, or even picked out and checked again in Amsterdam? Normally, when I go through check at the airport, my whole body is scanned for anything out of the ordinary. What more checks did you want in this "DOUBLE CHECK" you keep asking for?  If he was scanned and padded down like I expect every single person who goes through airport authorities was, and no bomb or anything out of the ordinary were detected, what extra DOUBLE check would have exposed this bomb?  How do you know he did not get the bomb AFTER passing through check station in amsterdam?

@Jaybee, when you get back to discussing this topic, let me know.

Kobojunkie
you made it sound as it is easy to report one's child for a crime.I grew up in lagos and i know a lot of guys that are either cultist or armed robbers but their parent never reported them.The man knows his son than any other thing so for him to have reported his son for a crime that may end up his life in jail.Who among us can do that?

I feel for his parents and family. How awful, first to suspect your son has drifted away to a very bad place, and feel strongly enough about it to try and warn people, only to have your suspicions confirmed this way.

jay bee:

All the US needs to do is make everyone travelling to US register online a day before travelling like the people from current visa waiver countries do. By doing this the names can then be checked against whatever lists the government posses before hand and in turn screen out questionable characters for special screening.

Don't they have a record showing everyone they have issued Visas?
That is enough data for them to check and weed off the ones on the watchlist or whatever rubbish they call it.

America messed up on this one. . . . .Janet Napolitano(Homeland Security secretary) has already conceded their security system failed on this one.
Yet they keep spending taxpayers' money in Afghanistan/Iraq when the real war is at the airports.

Shame!!!!

violent:

The dude is on American watch list
He is on British watch list
His father has reported him to the American embassy
and he still manage to get a bomb on a plane!

Why have him on a watch list if you are not going to watch him?, sounds like someone is being a clown

And the clown is the over bloated US security system. Common double checking procedure would have prevented the guy from entering the plane at Amsterdam.

the clearance given to them at Amsterdam should have indicated that the guy is on the watch list and should be double checked.

Kobojunkie:

@Jaybee, when you get back to discussing this topic, let me know.

just trying to find an easy way out ain't u? we both know where u r getting at and dats probably the reason why u ain't answering the question.

~Bluetooth:

Kobojunkie
[b]you made it sound as it is easy to report one's child for a crime.[/b]I grew up in lagos and i know a lot of guys that are either cultist or armed robbers but their parent never reported them.The man knows his son than any other thing so for him to have reported his son for a crime that may end up his life in jail.Who among us can do that?

thank u

@ sauron In one of your post you wrote and i quote "The family alerted the US/UK embassies in Nigeria that they are not satisfied with the kinda company their son is keeping.
How many Nigerian families would do that to their own sons?
Stop apportioning blame, Farouk is the culprit. . . . .nothing to do with his family."

You forget that you are an african; the sins of the father is that of the son and vice versa. If you no fit train your pikin quietly for house na for outside dem go don train am. It is as much his parents fault and is it he's.

~Bluetooth:

Kobojunkie
you made it sound as it is easy to report one's child for a crime.I grew up in lagos and i know a lot of guys that are either cultist or armed robbers but their parent never reported them.The man knows his son than any other thing so for him to have reported his son for a crime that may end up his life in jail.Who among us can do that?

Where did I make it sound easy? How do you know this man knows his son? I am sorry, this is an assumption you are making there ooo. By the way, I know there are fathers who would had no problem turning their sons/daughters in to the authorities here and even in Nigeria. Mine would have easily sold me off for a few bucks if he could have.

Essentially, I am not about this man turning his child in. I have seen cases of parents doing it too. I am more concerned about the MOTIVE. Did he do it because he believed it was the right thing to do? Or did he do it in hopes he could save his life? Or are there other reasons for this move on his part? I watch a lot of crime shows on TV and I have heard of stories that would blow your socks off. Parents using children to cover up their own acts. Parents going to the end of the world, and even committing the most attrocious to save their own hides, or kids. I mean it is out there. The report does not state for a fact what made the man do it and reports from all sides seem to point to this not really being about wanting to save lives but more to save his son's life, if you ask me.

Sighs and walks out,

OAM4J:

And the clown is the over bloated US security system. Common double checking procedure would have prevented the guy from entering the plane at Amsterdam.

the clearance given to them at Amsterdam should have indicated that the guy is on the watch list and should be double checked.

The double-check should have prevented the guy from boarding even in Lagos.
There are ways security agencies exchange information all over the world. . . . . .If this guy had been reported 2 months ago, then he shoulda been stopped on his tracks in any major international airport in the world.

bidemi12:

You forget that you are an african; the sins of the father is that of the son and vice versa. If you no fit train your pikin quietly for house na for outside dem go don train am. It is as much his parents fault and is it he's.

The father gave his son the best things in life. . . . . .The boy was trained but he refused to take the training.
Why should i blame the father for what Farouk did? He abandoned his family, went to live in Yemen and Dubai.
What could the father have done to that? The boy is solely responsible for his action and fair play to the father for reporting him earlier.

It's just ludicrous how pple go abt attackin the parents of the boy.The parents have hav done the right thing by expressin their concerns about their ward.But even if they had'nt they still could be absolved of any blame.As a parent u can only do so much,a child that will go astray will & there's rilly not much anybody can do abt it.I dare say folks who use gutter language here did not pick it frm their parents but if u did then,

~Sauron~:

Don't they have a record showing everyone they have issued Visas?
That is enough data for them to check and weed off the ones on the watchlist or whatever rubbish they call it.

America messed up on this one. . . . .Janet Napolitano(Homeland Security secretary) has already conceded their security system failed on this one.
Yet they keep spending taxpayers' money in Afghanistan/Iraq when the real war is at the airports.

Shame!!!!

I agree Sauron but the visa was proceured in '08 and the intel by his father was months ago so another round of weeding ain't gonna hurt.

Kobojunkie:


How do you know he was not double checked, or even picked out and checked again in Amsterdam? Normally, when I go through check at the airport, my whole body is scanned for anything out of the ordinary. What more checks did you want in this "DOUBLE CHECK" you keep asking for?  If he was scanned and padded down like I expect every single person who goes through airport authorities was, and no bomb or anything out of the ordinary were detected, what extra DOUBLE check would have exposed this bomb?  How do you know he did not get the bomb AFTER passing through check station in amsterdam?

My point is if they know he is on the watch list, he should have been thoroughly scanned. The guy had explosive powder with a syringe strapped on his tight. We don't need so much of an expert to detect that from a potential security threat.

if they can detect drugs even on those that swallowed them. Finding an explosive strapped on the tight shouldn't have been a problem.

I really commend the father for reporting to the appropriate authourity long before this happened and i dont fink we should blame him for his son's misconduct in anyway.BTW how many of d ppl blaming him have d courage of reporting their sibling if they suspect him of being an armed rubber?hmmm, it is better said than done.

[table]If you note, he was living in London away from his family. A little grounding about lifes issues would have helped, instead of isolating the criminal from reality. No child is born evil (except they have mental problems).

Living in a rented room and working in Burger King would have put that boys eyes on the ground.[/table]

One can never satisfy other people in dis life.If d boy was living in d condition above,ppl would have still blamed his father for making so much money n subjecting d guy to dat condition and dey would even conclude that d guy did wat he did cos he was emotionally disturbed by his parents' action.
In short,the guy should be punished adequately for his offence,let's leave his family outta dis cos the father did wat was right.

jay bee:

I agree Sauron but the visa was proceured in '08 and the intel by his father was months ago so another round of weeding ain't gonna hurt.

We are on the same wavelength. . . . .

The father reported his ward to the US embassy.
A responsible office would then check if this boy has travelled to America or still prancing about outside the shores of the USA.
There's a network where all security agencies in the world exchange information. America woulda known the whereabouts of this boy if they had done an intensive check. . . . .His last destination would flag on any system provided his passport was scanned prior entering the country. . .

They failed to do that. . . . . .They failed to flag his passport
Passports these days are like credit cards. It can be flagged but the people concerned did nothing to stop this boy.
They coulda prevented this schitzo in the first place by getting this boy arrested in Lagos or wherever he was when they were alerted by his father.
Let this be a lesson for them.

OAM4J:

My point is if they know he is on the watch list, he should have been thoroughly scanned. The guy had explosive powder with a syringe strapped on his tight. We don't need so much of an expert to detect that from a potential security threat.

You still have not answered the question. How do you know he was not THOROUGHLY SCANNED?

How do you know this explosive was on him when he was SCANNED or Thoroughly SCANNED?  

OAM4J:
if they can detect drugs even on those that swallowed them. Finding an explosive strapped on the tight shouldn't have been a problem.

This actually makes this even better. Now, following what you have above, Answer the questions please.

If, according to you, they can detect drugs even on those that swallowed them, and are NOT on a watch list, why were they unable to detect this thing strapped on this man? I mean consider that the druggies don’t even need to be on a watch list to be checked or even double checked.

Kobojunkie:

You still have not answered the question. How do you know he was not THOROUGHLY SCANNED?

How do you know this explosive was on him when he was SCANNED or Thoroughly SCANNED?  


This actually makes this even better. Now, following what you have above, Answer the questions please.

If, according to you, they can detect drugs even on those that swallowed them, and are NOT on a watch list, why were they unable to detect this thing strapped on this man? I mean consider that the druggies don’t even need to be on a watch list to be checked or even double checked.

- Very good points have been raised . . .

- Its either because they intentionally wanted him to escape detection and hence succeed enough to cause a false flag operation . . . or. . . its because some people were basically not doing their job.