Princek12:

The United States Dept. of Homeland Security has conceded that the system failed, and the information should have been utilized more prudently.

proudly9ja:

@sauron,
I agree with you that all should be watched but my point is all CANNOT be watched unless another measure is taken. Especially if you are talking of over 500,000 people from different Nationalities who know they are being watch. It is expensive and also very difficult.

People change names, change appearances, etc. Unless a person is specifically targetted, it is almost impossible to trace his movements. Lets even say you put one man on every suspected terrorist, thats over 500,000 man power needed!!

What I am more worried about is the Naija situation. Do we have terrorists in Nigeria? Are terrorists being trained? We have not heard anything at all from the Nigerian Police Force to assure us that we are safe at home. The man's father also reported to Nigerian Authorities. What did they do?

Princek12:

Since putting someone on a no fly list involves the exercise of some form of discretion, a reputable father who informed the U.S. embassy of his son's radicalized behavior should have been more than enough info to warrant them to put his name on the no fly list.

Princek12:

Nevertheless, even if his name was not placed on the no fly list, the fact that his name was on a database of those suspected to have ties to Al Qaeda should have been enough for them to subject him to a more stringent search such as explosive-swipe test, back scatter search (it gives a unclothed x-ray image of your body which would reveal the most concealed object on one's body), or an exhaustive pat down. Clearly, since placing him on the no fly list involves the exercise of discretionary power, reasonable minds could differ as to what constitutes an imprudent exercise of that discretion.

Princek12:

The United States Dept. of Homeland Security has conceded that the system failed, and the information should have been utilized more prudently.

proudly9ja:

@sauron,

I agree with you that all should be watched but my point is all CANNOT be watched unless another measure is taken. Especially if you are talking of over 500,000 people from different Nationalities who know they are being watch. It is expensive and also very difficult. People change names, change appearances, etc. Unless a person is specifically targetted, it is almost impossible to trace his movements. Lets even say you put one man on every suspected terrorist, thats over 500,000 man power needed!!


What I am more worried about is the Naija situation. Do we have terrorists in Nigeria? Are terrorists being trained? We have not heard anything at all from the Nigerian Police Force to assure us that we are safe at home. The man's father also reported to Nigerian Authorities. What did they do?

Kobojunkie:



More questions for you

Do we now assume that everytime any person or particularly MUSLIM speaks of sacrificing self, we should automatically assume TERRORIST or Suicide Bomber then? Is that safe to conclude?

OAM4J:

We should not just conclude. but such information should not be taken lightly, should be investigated and such person should be place under close observation/monitoring

Kobojunkie:


Agreed but that still does not mean they could have averted this no matter how perfectly they tried.

Kobojunkie:

Reputable in what sense? Aren’t we LEAPING TOO FAR here?

OAM4J:

We should not just conclude. but such information should not be taken lightly, should be investigated and such person should be place under close observation/monitoring

mbulela:

what do you want them to do?A force that is only effective in collecting road toll from danfo drivers, is that the force you are expecting to get involved in matters that even the Us homeland is bungling?
Here, we are at the mercies of God, as usual.

mbulela:

like i said earlier, this statement was obviously written by a lawyer.
it says so much without saying anything in particular.
On a second thought, one can not be sure of anything on the basis of it.
When they are ready to tell us the full story, we will listen.
This statement is plain grandstanding.
When they decide to robe the father in, he will tell the full story.

mbulela:

come on, you are being unfair.
the chairman of First bank for years and before then UBA, i think.
the US embassy will listen to him with some measure of respect than they will some unknown alhaji who just walks into the embassy accusing his son of being an extremist.

mbulela:

both reports will listened to and investigated but you can not wish away the fact that in our society he is reputable and i think the report was made to the Us embassy here in naija.

Kobojunkie:

Now the above brings to mind pictures of Muslims only a couple of years ago crying that they were being discriminated against by America.  He was placed on a watch list, right? And he passed through two airports on his way to the US, right? If the authorities at both airports were unable to detect the bomb, which we discovered was strapped to his thigh, I mean it was not like the guy hid it in his cavity or something( it was right there in front of the authorities) does that not cause you to WONDER why it was not detected at BOTH ports? You don’t need a flag to detect such on a drug dealer at the same airports, do you?

Kobojunkie:

Reputable in what sense? Aren’t we LEAPING TOO FAR here?

The guy's father--Alhahi Mutallab is a reputable man -- former Chairman of UBA and First Bank of Nigeria, Plc. Isn't that reputbale?

Again, I will ask you the questions I have asked the other before you.

How do you know he was not subjected to more Stringent search? I mean seriously, how do you know this? How do you know he even had the BOMB on him while he was being searched?

The authorities in Nigeria and Amsterdam have stated that he underwent normal security procedures and was not subject to heightened security procedures. Which one be your own?
My problem is it is possible people think Al-Qaida does not do it’s homework at all. I am certain they know that a search of individuals at the airport, especially after 9/11 would probably reveal anything the person is carrying.  Was alquida dumb enough to leave the detection of this bomb to chance?

Agreed but that still does not mean they could have averted this no matter how perfectly they tried.

Al Qaeda did their homework, but the U.S. was fortunate enough to have a father who gave them info about his son's plan. It does not get better than that, being informed of a potential terrorist attack by a guy who was on your list, and who was not subject to a heightened search. Come on don't argue against yourself. So if someone's family told you that their family member was going to poison you, won't you exercise caution in eating food that was prepared by that person?

OAM4J:

So what are you insinuating? The whole thing is a fraud? there was an insider? a conspiracy? or a well planned attack? What exactly is your take?

Kobojunkie:

But they did LISTEN TO HIM, but his being REPUTABLE in the eyes of some is not enough reason why the boy’s life has to be put in chains WITHOUT EVIDENCE.
Key word “OUR SOCIETY”!! !

 
The guy's father--Alhahi Mutallab is a reputable man -- former Chairman of UBA and First Bank of Nigeria, Plc. Isn't that reputbale?

     The authorities in Nigeria and Amsterdam have stated that he underwent normal security procedures and was not subject to heightened security procedures. Which one be your own?

A preliminary FBI analysis found that the device AbdulMutallab allegedly carried aboard the flight from Amsterdam, Netherlands, to Detroit, Michigan, contained the explosive pentaerythritol tetranitrate, known as PETN. The amount of explosive involved was sufficient to blow a hole in the side of the aircraft, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN Sunday. Authorities have focused their investigation on how AbdulMutallab, 23, allegedly smuggled the explosives aboard the flight and who might have helped him. "We're ascertaining why it was that he was not flagged in a more specific way when he purchased his ticket, given the information that we think was available, allegedly was available," Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano told CNN's "American Morning" Monday. AbdulMutallab, a Nigerian who had a multiple-entry visa to the United States, had been added to a watch list of 550,000 potential terrorist threats after the information provided by his father was forwarded to the National Counter-Terrorism Center, a senior administration official said. But "the info on him was not deemed specific enough to pull his visa or put him on a no-fly list," the official said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/28/airline.terror.attempt/index.html

Al Qaeda did his homework but the U.S. was fortunate enough to have a father who gave them his son's plan. It does not get better than that, being informed of a potential terrorist attack by a guy who was on your list, and who was not subject to a heightened search. Come on don't argue against yourself. So if someone's family told you that their family member was going to poison you, won't you exercise caution in eating food that was prepared by that person?

londoner:

@kobojunkie, would you views have been the same if he succeeded in blowing up the plane/setting it on fire and taking the lives of those on board. Pardon me to say, but you are talking in the comfort of hindsite.

londoner:

You mentioned your friend who was going through a "phase". Did he have Alqueda connections? Was he trained in the Yemen?

londoner:

This guy was. The same so called "phase" which those who flew into the twin towers and blew up parts of London
not to long ago were going through I suppose.

The phase of a few should not mean that the safety of many is sacrificed.

SEFAGO:

^Not rily, he would get a maximum prison sentence of 20 years supposedly and at the age of 43 would be out

Blaming the parents for a child's upbringing is soooooooo within the point, just a praising theparents for a child's achievements. If you attend an average traditional wedding in Nigeria, you will hear eulogies upon eulogies how the bridegroom or bride was well brought up by his parents, especially if the bride/bridegroom is doing well.

If person wan mara, na only God fit stop am.

londoner:

I have never been through a phase which made me get on a plane with an explosive moulded around my body parts, with the express view to blow the plane up killing both myself and others.

I have never been through that phase, have you?

londoner:

Its pretty selfish for any person to think its okay to go through that "phase" and the rest of us should just bear the consequences, no matter how far a person choses to take it.

londoner:

The guy in question said to authorities himself that he obtained the substance in the Yemen, and Alqqeda have claimed responsibility. Now, its pretty clear what the situation is.

londoner:

Here is the article also on the BBC website where it said that the guy told authorities that the bomb was provided to him in the YEMEN, and they also TRAINED HIM ON HOW TO USE IT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8432934.stm

Kobojunkie:

If you agree that Cecilia Ibru is TRUSTWORTHY and HONEST( Reputable).

You are using a strawman style argument here. My point is that when someone of his caliber comes to the U.S. embassy to inform you of the radicalized behavior of his own son, and his son's intent of planning something dangerous, it should be taking more seriously.  I never said his statement should be conclusive of his son's behavior but should definitely be giving substantial weight.

I think you need to direct that question at your own self here.  Someone pointed out earlier that even folks with drugs strapped on the same way will likely be detected during the NORMAL SECURITY SEARCH, so again, why was this not detected? I believe that is a valid question to ask oneself.

How do you know if that "someone" who pointed earlier that drugs strapped the same way would have been detected during the normal security search is an expert or knows what he is saying. Again, even if it should have been detected under normal routine, it does not negate the proposition that he should not have been subject to a heightened search, since they were aware of his radicalized behavior.

The above points to his possibly not even having this on him FROM NIGERIA, and it is possible he had it AFTER being searched.

Again, this is possible, which is why the govt. is trying to investigate fully the possible security breach.


What?  Let us not TRIVIALIZE this now!! You assume there that I even eat food served me by strangers that I ain’t paying for.

Yes. Whether you are paying for the food or not. If  you own a restaurant and the father of someone informs you that a paying customer wants to come and rob you at night, I would hope that you would be extra cautious in observing that when that customer walks into your restaurant at night, or if possible deny service to that customer as long as it is within dictates of the law. Here, the govt. could have legally revoked his visa or denied him entry to the U.S., or at the very least subject him to a heightened search.