felixomor:


So Deists base their belief on a mere postulation, Right?

Correct my paddy.

You first have to prove the existence of something, then it's safe to construct reasons why he/she/they is "apart" from Earth.

You cannot do one without the other. If you do, then we're crossing into preternatural territory. We might as well be discussing why Superman doesn't come and save Nigeria from evil. Good day. (:

Kay17:


Loool! An uncontroversial example would be appreciated.

Well there is a radical theory which postulates that an advanced alien civilization has transcribed themselves into the quantum realm - they are now part of the fabric of the universe . Does that count too ?

KingEbukasBlog:


All matter , energy , space , time were created in the Big Bang .

I think I understand what you are hinting at and its called Platonism whereby entities like abstract objects - numbers , properties , sets - are necessarily existing and are uncreated as God and thus independent of God's existence . Right ?

But I clearly stated in the first point I made that since God is supreme and omnipotent he transcends all having the power the terminate even necessarily existing entities . Some philosophers also asserted that these necessarily existing causally impotent abstract objects depend on God's will and intellect for their existence i.e assuming God had willed 3+3 to be 8 then it would have been so .

Wouldn't your conclusion, that whole entities do not require causation or creation, change in view of the examples have right now?

KingEbukasBlog:


Well there is a radical theory which postulates that an advanced alien civilization has transcribed themselves into the quantum realm - they are now part of the fabric of the universe . Does that count too ?

It's still speculative. Provide a clear example not one from other radical theories

Kay17:


Wouldn't your conclusion, that whole entities do not require causation or creation, change in view of the examples have right now?

There are still dependent on the existence of God i.e if God hadn't existed then these entities would not exist . Though they exist necessarily , they are still contingent .

We can relate this to Hawking model - no boundary proposal - that supposedly eliminates the need for God for the existence of the universe giving the universe the ability to create itself from not just vacuum but from literally nothing since nothing exists outside the universe . But without God this would be impossible since He is the source of all reality . And if God hasn't willed it to be so , such activity wouldn't even occur in the same place .

Kay17:


It's still speculative. Provide a clear example not one from other radical theories

I'm not sure there are any other .

KingEbukasBlog:


I'm not sure there are any other .

So your only example of a unembodied mind is God?

KingEbukasBlog:


There are still dependent on the existence of God i.e if God hadn't existed then these entities would not exist . Though they exist necessarily , they are still contingent .

We can relate this to Hawking model - no boundary proposal - that supposedly eliminates the need for God for the existence of the universe giving the universe the ability to create itself from not just vacuum but from literally nothing since nothing exists outside the universe . But without God this would be impossible since He is the source of all reality . And if God hasn't willed it to be so , such activity wouldn't even occur in the same place .

Then God being whole doesn't stop him from having a creator

Kay17:


Then God being whole doesn't stop him from having a creator

Wow . How is that possible please explain . And after you are done , select which you think is logical

1. Infinite Regress

2. First Cause [Eternal , Necessary Existent , Self Existent, Self Sufficient , Non Contingent ]

3. Something out of literally nothing uncaused .

Kay17:


So your only example of a unembodied mind is God?

I said man's spirit . People- theists and atheists - who have had out of the body experiences could witness and observe events without their material/physical bodies . If they could experience consciousness outside the material body then the spirit is an umembodied mind .

KingEbukasBlog:


Wow . How is that possible please explain . And after you are done , select which you think is logical

1. Infinite Regress

2. First Cause [Eternal , Necessary Existent , Self Existent, Self Sufficient , Non Contingent ]

3. Something out of literally nothing uncaused .

The problem of infinite regress is not different from the problem of finite regress. How does one determine where the regress stops. How many levels of regress are there? ie, like the universe was created by a God, who was created by a God, who was created by a God, who is then the fiirst Cause [Eternal , Necessary Existent , Self Existent, Self Sufficient , Non Contingent]

i prefer to go with the no regress model, ie the universe is eternal with everything contained therein. It only changes form.

KingEbukasBlog:


Wow . How is that possible please explain . And after you are done , select which you think is logical

1. Infinite Regress

2. First Cause [Eternal , Necessary Existent , Self Existent, Self Sufficient , Non Contingent ]

3. Something out of literally nothing uncaused .

I hope you do recall that you were the one trying to prove that your God didn't require a creator because he was whole. But given that wholeness doesn't not guarantee being uncaused God could likely be caused.

Kay17:


I hope you do recall that you were the one trying to prove that your God didn't require a creator because he was whole. But given that wholeness doesn't not guarantee being uncaused God could likely be caused.

You misconstrued my point . Wholeness is a physical property and it is created so God doesn't posses wholeness as an attribute . God is more like a maximally great being. You talked about orderliness and organization of parts as your criterion for being caused to exist because you believe God has organized and ordered parts but God doesn't . God is a simple being who has no temporal , spatial or metaphysical parts; God's attributes are simply identical to his being .

wirinet:


The problem of infinite regress is not different from the problem of finite regress. How does one determine where the regress stops. How many levels of regress are there? ie, like the universe was created by a God, who was created by a God, who was created by a God, who is then the fiirst Cause [Eternal , Necessary Existent , Self Existent, Self Sufficient , Non Contingent]

I understand your point . The thing is that the First Cause has the attributes of being eternal , necessarily existing , self sufficient , non contingent , enormously powerful , immutable . So the First Cause as a primary substance or non contingent being sets the conditions necessarily for the existence of secondary substances or contingent beings . Since the universe is like a repository of cause and effect , the term 'First Cause' was coined to refer to the being that effects the Law of Causality . So God as the First Cause has no creator since it is eternal/non contingent/necessarily existing

i prefer to go with the no regress model, ie the universe is eternal with everything contained therein. It only changes form.

Infinite change = Infinite regress .

That's the thing with God as an eternal being , he is immutable (changeless )

As you can see , an eternal universe will strongly suggest infinite regress since as you clearly said 'it only changes form'. If something stretches to infinity you can't place any antecedent conditions on which whatever effects being experienced were made therefore it is very illogical for infinite regress of causes to occur .

I think people confuse nothingness with the Dark Universe. The concept of nothingness is too abstract to concieve. However, the Dark Universe, the one we see when we peer into Telescopes at night is percievable even if there was only 1 Star, our Sun. That is because the Dark Universe is Pure Dark Energy. It is all around us and is the medium that Light travells in a wave through. There is no such thing as a Light particle travelling from the Sun in 8 minutes to reach the Earth. Light is the process of a wave moving through the medium.

Ok, with that out of the way, I will explain how the physical universe come into being. Pure Dark Energy is abstract and exists as waves. Physicists have labelled its properties alomg what is known as the Elecro-Magnetic Spectrum. To create matter, Pure Dark Energy Waves flux, (cut into half waves) until particles of matter emerge. The first particle is what created Space-Time because it became quantitative. It is also known as a Star. We can only speculate that the first Star is at the center of the universe but we know the process is happening all the time because there of billions of other stars since then.

excadz:
I think people confuse nothingness with the Dark Universe. The concept of nothingness is too abstract to concieve.

No need to obfuscate the meaning of nothingness . It simply means nothing in every aspect of what nothing means . NOTHING .

KingEbukasBlog:


You misconstrued my point . Wholeness is a physical property and it is created so God doesn't posses wholeness as an attribute . God is more like a maximally great being. You talked about orderliness and organization of parts as your criterion for being caused to exist because you believe God has organized and ordered parts but God doesn't . God is a simple being who has no temporal , spatial or metaphysical parts; God's attributes are simply identical to his being .

God is a maximally great being and at the same simple being?

.

Kay17:


God is a maximally great being and at the same simple being?

Being maximally great means that God is Omnipotent , Omniscient , morally perfect , Omnipresent etc . And God being simple is that these attributes are not parts of God that make Him God , they are simply identical to His being .You dig ?

KingEbukasBlog:


Wow . How is that possible please explain . And after you are done , select which you think is logical

1. Infinite Regress

2. First Cause [Eternal , Necessary Existent , Self Existent, Self Sufficient , Non Contingent ]

3. Something out of literally nothing uncaused .

Kay17 , you didn't answer this question . Why ?

I don't even perceive this Ebuka guy as a Christian.

As far as I'm concerned, He's a Clown.

mrmrmister:
I don't even perceive this Ebuka guy as a Christian.

As far as I'm concerned, He's a Clown.

Your signature sums up your personality ...

KingEbukasBlog:


Your signature sums up your personality ...

Yeah it does, to a myopic person anyway.

randomperson:


. Is there proof the universe wasn't created by aliens? A created universe doesn't prove god, since it doesn't prove that a set of super- intelligent aliens also created the world

Please, show how Christianity fulfills every logical explanation of what god should look like and show why same is not applicable to the Islamic god

Do u mean it could have as well been created by aliens?

If that is the case you at least believe it was created by someone you only cant take it that God created it.

More contributions please

mrmrmister:
I don't even perceive this Ebuka guy as a Christian.

As far as I'm concerned, He's a Clown.

He's more of a deist than a christian.

dalaman:


He's more of a deist than a christian.

Prove that I'm a deist

KingEbukasBlog:


Prove that I'm a deist

Your posts are there for all to see. Most of your arguments are for a deist God. I understand that there is no evidence for the Christian God at all, so most christian apologist just embrace the deist God idea and run away with it.

dalaman:


Your posts are there for all to see. Most of your arguments are for a deist God. I understand that there is no evidence for the Christian God at all, so most christian apologist just embrace the deist God idea and run away with it.

So what's the difference between the 'deist God' and 'Christian God' ?

dalaman:


Your posts are there for all to see. Most of your arguments are for a deist God. I understand that there is no evidence for the Christian God at all, so most christian apologist just embrace the deist God idea and run away with it.

If they ask you to show proof for this now,
U will start answering question with question.....

Mscheww