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Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 8:04pm On Aug 21, 2017 |
adetayo234:Don't worry you'll soon bite more than you can chew, then you'll know that Karma gives you back what you deserve 1 Like |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by parisbookaddict(f): 11:03pm On Aug 21, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Jesus is the Son of God and part of God. Jesus saying he is God ignores the triune nature of God. there is God the father and he, Jesus God the son. Every bible reading christian knows this but muslims cant seem to grasp this. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 5:02am On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict:Who asked you about all these or who asked for this long winded answer The question DeSepiero asked was: I'm wondering, 'is there any verse of the new testament which quotes Jesus directly referring to himself as God?' I for one never once expected Jesus to DIRECTLY say or claim to be God anyway because His essence, His works, His persona etcetera proves Him to be God We never read Jesus denying the Jews' accusation(s) that He claims(ed) to be God. Can bet my bottom dollar, you too know as well as I do, why Jesus never refuted, disputed or denied He claimed to be God. The reason why Jesus didn't refute, dispute, deny or argue is because He is God Now sticking to the area of the question, the area being that, did Jesus directly refer Himself as God Why are you finding it so difficult in giving a binary answer, such as either saying Yes or No before anything else you write in response to DeSepiero's question. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by parisbookaddict(f): 8:48am On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:i gave a far more detailed answer before. the second one was an attempt to explain why he may need not have stated it directly. there are better explanations. i like your answer but it too does not give a direct answer as to why Jesus did not directly refer to him self as God if i say he did not refer to himself as God, with a simplistic NO answer as you suggested and not mention all the evidence to show that he was recognized as God and was treated as such, as well as imply it, it will be a disservice to anybody reading this argument who is confused on the subject. let my use this simplistic analogy. How many times have you referred to your self as human or in the third person. But you are treated as a human by your peers and not a sheep or dog. does that not in itself imply that you are human without you directly stating to everyone that you are human. The evidence of Christs divinity cannot be doubted from historical records, anti-christs and muslims who often ask for a simplistic yes or no answer to the aforementioned question are simply looking to create doubt when a No answer is given. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 9:04am On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict: I'm a christian and the Trinity doctrine doesn't sound scriptural at all. Why is the Son of God in the bible and no God the Son? This should be a major belief and it is not stated in the bible. Jesus is divine because He came from God, He is not God Almighty. Does God Almighty have a God above Him? Now check Christ's statement in Rev 3:12. Think about that. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 9:15am On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: We never read Jesus deny that He was a wine bibber either Matt 11:19. So according your logic it means He was a drunk? He was about to be stoned by people who were looking for any excuse to get rid of Him. Check the time they took Him to Pilate. Did He deny any of their accusations? Did it mean He affirmed them by His silence. Bottom line, you can't use that logic. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 9:21am On Aug 22, 2017 |
When Christ asked His disciples who they thought He was, Peter said He was the Christ, the Son of the Most High. They were alone with Him at that time, so if Jesus was the Most High, He would have corrected Peter there and then. But He actually commended Peter for the answer. I don't know why people are so blind to this. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by clefstone(m): 9:41am On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict:Thomas the Apostle called Jesus God as recorded in John 20:28. 'My Lord and My God' he said. You skipped that ma'am |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 5:02pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict:You are jumping the gun. There wasn't a request in the question that responders should explain away their answers parisbookaddict:My answer, where I outrightly confirmed that, it is true that Jesus never DIRECTLY referred to Himself as God, didn't require me explaining why Jesus didn't. That is because DeSepiero didn't ask for an explanation(s) why parisbookaddict:It wouldn't do your credibility any harm especially as you like doing and going about preaching. It will be you just being honest. It would have been after confirming with a "No", that could pre-emptively add on follow up explanation(s) parisbookaddict:Jesus doesn't owe anybagger any explanation about who He is. Jesus doesn't have to prove to anybagger who He is. Jesus doesn't have to directly refer Himself, to anybagger, as God. I don't buy the "create doubt" sentiment, because you've just proven that it isn't rocket science to explain the reason why, and if that is so, what was so difficult in starting with a "No" answer then. The point is that, there will always be doubting Thomases, whether anyone says, No, or says, Yes, to DeSepiero's question, so why not bite the bullet and say at the earliest opportunity the honest truth |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 5:02pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
adelee777:They replied, "We're stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God - John 10:33 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a drunk, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Absolved from every act of sin, is wisdom justified by its works.” - Matthew 11:19 John 10:33 and Matthew 11:19 are reproduced above for the benefit of any not familiar with the verses' contents In John 10:33, we see clearly Jesus being accused by the Jews of claiming to be God, Whereas, in Matthew 11:19, we see clearly the Jews, here, taking it upon themselves to actually claim that Jesus is a glutton and drunkard Accusations, like saying, He claimed to be God, He is the Messiah etcetera, is different from getting called names, like being called a glutton, drunkard etcetera John 10:33 is accusation whilst Matthew 11:16 is ad hominem Wisdom (i.e. good decision or correct conclusion) is vindicated by works or action What works or actions showed Jesus, as God and what actions or works showed or would qualify Jesus to be a glutton and drunkard? The answer to the former, is that there are loads of works/actions signifying that Jesus is God but there are diddly-squat nothing that proves(d) Jesus is a glutton, drunkard or any other negative adjective label for that matter anyone can think of. Jesus, among his caucus or inner circle, on many occasions confirmed claims He is God. Nicodemus, who came in the middle of the night, left, being able to draw in the lines and eventually accept that Jesus is God, from the slight rebuke and dots Jesus gave him. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 5:15pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
clefstone: How would you interpret Jesus' statement in John 20:17? |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 5:29pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: So where did Nicodemvs accept that Christ was God? because in my bible he only said 'Rabbi, we know You are a teacher from GOD, for no man can do these works that you do except God be with him'. How did you spin that to mean he accepted Him as God? One question: if Christ were God, why did He call God 'my God'? |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 6:32pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
adelee777:What you've quoted or paraphrased above there, is Nicodemus' John 3:2 perplexed, threading softly breaking-the-ice opening statement adelee777:Do people scoop petroleum off the surface of the earth? Do people scoop pearls floating on water waves? Do people pick up diamonds or charcoal off the ground? The but verse 39b is where the tell tale sign is. adelee777:This is an awesome question that I would only answer you, based on 3 conditions. Which are that, you, first would have to, without holding back, exhaustively define the nouns; God and god, for me Also, since you've mentioned & used the word; Christ, to please, fully define what Christ is and/or means? Lastly, do you agree and accept that, it is not impossible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be in Heaven and Earth at any moment in time? |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 6:57pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
Amberon11: read your bible slowly and carefully. Jesus said as the father sent me so I do you. please explain the meaning |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 7:01pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
Amberon11: God grave Jesus that grace like he gave Moses over pharaoh. please note the argument is not if Jesus is a God but if Jesus is the same as God |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 7:03pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
Amberon11: you are not following. the argument is if Jesus is same as God i.e one being |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 7:05pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
adetayo234: bible that has been misquoted |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 7:17pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
walls01:The meaning is, that, just as God sent Himself, so does He send you. walls01:There is no argument whatsover and none anywhere for that matter, as regards to, whether or not Jesus is the same as God (i.e. one being) especially if you agree and accept that it is possible for God to simultaneously and concurrently be in heaven and on earth at any particular point in time |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by parisbookaddict(f): 9:27pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
adelee777: i prefer to be on the side of early christians who acknowledged the divinity of Jesus. even before the early councils which came to agreement on the trinity, Jesus was already recognized by the earliest christians as THE SON of God. biblical passages show people bend down and worship him after healings, forgiving sins etc. Dont you think Jesus would have made it clear if he wasnt God the son by condemning the people who did that. Son of God= divinity son of man= human it is clear when you read the bible. God the son and Son of God as you simplistically try to differentiate them is borne out of you understanding of english language. remember these verses are interpreted from Aramaic and Hebrew which are rich languages with deeper meaning, even arabic is rich in its meaning and that is why muslims have various interpretations from the same quran. The majority of Christians for 2017 years are in no doubt as to Jesus being God the Son. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 9:57pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: God sent himself wow! |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 10:00pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Jesus was very clear he do nothing by himself and he follow instructions from God. 1 John 4:14 should clear your doubt |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 10:05pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict: Jesus said God sent I and he speak not his words but what the father told him. also remember in the cross how he cried to God. read slowly and carefully |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 10:07pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: in the cross Jesus cried to God how can you explain this |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 10:09pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict: when Jesus was with Elijah and Moses during the transfiguration God spoke from heaven saying this is my son in whom am well pleased. what can you say about this |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by walls01: 10:10pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:. remember during the transfiguration when God spoke from heaven? what is your say about this |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 10:23pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff:God is used to differentiate the Almighty from other superhuman beings termed gods. God is omnipotent, but dat is not an excuse to attribute to Him what He didn't do. Christ means 'the chosen One' or 'the anointed One'. Did Christ anoint Himself? Not according to the bible, By the way, Christ called God 'my God' in Rev 3 when He was in Heaven. Stephen saw Christ on the right hand of GOD. Figure dat out. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 10:34pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
parisbookaddict: So, son of God equals to God? So in Genesis 6:2 the sons of God there means God came in many forms to meet the daughters of men? Wow! I don't need to discuss on this again. It's hard to change an opinion you've been brought vp with even if scripture to the contrary is staring you in the face. Shalom. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by adelee777: 10:37pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
The majority of Christians for 2017 years are in no doubt as to Jesus being God the Son. [/quote] Broad way...narrow way...do these make any meaning to you sir? |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by clefstone(m): 10:44pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
adelee777:it is important to understand the reason why Jesus came into the world before you can get a clearer understanding of that passage. Jesus came to redeem the world. In other to do this God desired that he dies AS MAN for the sins of the world, he is therefore the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Now, Jesus' relationship with the Father when he was on earth had to be that of Man and God, he Man and the Father God, anything else defeats the purpose of his coming. He therefore related with God the way man relates with God, hence the reference to 'my father' and 'my God' in that verse. Now, how do we know that Jesus is God? 1. The nature of his birth. He was born of a virgin 2. He existed before he was born(Luke 10:18). As what? 3. Jesus said no man born of a woman is greater than John de Baptist, yet John told his disciples that he was unfit to undo his sandals 4. It is explicitly written that Christ is God in the book of Philippians. 5. The main charge for which Christ was killed was that he called himself son of God. The Jews actually saw it as equating himself with God, and he didn't deny it |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by bloodofthelamb(m): 11:19pm On Aug 22, 2017 |
BELOVE! WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACHIEVE? TO DECEIVE PEOPLE THAT CHRIST JESUS IS NOT GOD..WITH YOUR COMMENT I CAN SENSE IT THAT YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT CHRIST IS GOD...FRIEND, THERE LIES YOUR SALVATION.. |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 6:32am On Aug 23, 2017 |
walls01:You sound surprised If you want something done right or want it be done, in a very certain or particular way, then it becomes necessary and best for you, to do it yourself So that's what God did. God DIY, by sending Himself. God, became God, the Father, as well as He became God, the Son God, a Spirit, came down to earth, embodied in flesh (i.e. human being body) in the person of Jesus Christ, God, the Son God, the Father and God, the Son, are one walls01:Of course, it clearly is God now. Or who do you think is the driving force behind Jesus? Who motivates Jesus? Who influences Jesus? Who is Jesus always yielding to? Who sent Jesus? Please tell now. Or is it Obatala? Is it alcohol? Is it the stomach? Is it drugs? walls01:Think about when God became God, the Father and also became God, the Son Also who or what are you expecting Jesus to cry to, if not God. walls01:I have explained this, if not somewhere above, then it'll be in the reply to adelee777 walls01:Correction, God, in His capacity, as God, the Father, spoke from heaven, saying this is my Son, in Whom, Am well pleased with walls01:Same as the last answer above 1 Like |
Re: The Essential Doctrines For All Christians To Believe by MuttleyLaff: 6:32am On Aug 23, 2017 |
adelee777:If your life depended on it, is this how you will, without holding back, define God? What a sloppy attempt and insufficient definition. So, the noun, god, is just used for superhuman beings only, hmm? Evidently, you haven't thought well enough over and/or about what God and god means adelee777:What excuse are you talking of? What didn't He do, that you are trying to say, is being attributed to Him? Was God not simultaneously and concurrently in Heaven and earth? adelee777:No, Christ, otherwise called Messiah, who is Jesus, and who is God the Son, didn't anoint Himself because according to the bible, God, the Son was anointed by God, the Father adelee777:He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name - Revelation 3:12 Of course, He did. Revelation 3:12 precisely is where He said, He will make overcomers pillars in the Temple of His God What name or word were you expecting Jesus Christ to refer to and/or mention in Revelation 3:12? Isn't it God you were/are expecting? Or were you expecting Jesus, to make overcomers, pillars in the temple of Obatala or the temple of alcohol, or the temple of stomach or in the temple of drugs? adelee777:You really don't grasp the meaning of that Stephen vision. Stephen, seeing Christ, on the right hand side of God, means, seeing Jesus Christ, God, the Son, helping and supporting God, the Father, the most, seeing Him, especially at the work God has set out to do. Jesus, helped God the most, that is why Stephen saw Jesus on the right hand side of God. Your inadequate definition of God and god, is the reason behind your inability to understand and so not able to figure this and others out |
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