Billyonaire:


There is no argument here. I just told you Jehovah is not Allah. This is not up for argument, because there is no room for arguments.

My findings happen when I step outside of Time and Space. I have nothing further to add to that. Like I said, it is not up for debate. Take it or leave it.

Jehovah and Allah are different entities. There is no one here that I need to argue with on this very important issue. Instead of arguing with me, spend that time researching as much as you can. And I will not recommend how you go about it, so it wont look like I influence your decisions and findings.

Do your homework and prove otherwise to yourself and ofcourse others.

Quite correct, there’s no argument here, I am simply making my own points and equally you may choose to take cognizance of them or not. I have not disputed your experience that Allah is not Jehovah, to me the comparison is pointless since I believe in neither one. The issue was that I asked you to explain how you came to your conclusion and you have danced around the question like a virgin contemplating se.x for the first time.

First you admonished me to read Sumerian texts that had been translated into Hebrew, then you advised me to go and learn meditation (fancy that!) and consult the “Akashic” records (what a laugh) now you say you drew your conclusion by “stepping out of time” and you then declare with grandiosity that “it is not up for debate” well, I guess that proves it then? As I said before, you sound extraordinarily defensive and the reasons are quite apparent.

Nobody is arguing with you sir, your findings are your findings! Nobody asked you for a recommendation of any sort and you do not have the standing or the wherewithal of affecting any decision of mine, not even if you tried.

Sarassin:


Quite correct, there’s no argument here, I am simply making my own points and equally you may choose to take cognizance of them or not. I have not disputed your experience that Allah is not Jehovah, to me the comparison is pointless since I believe in neither one. The issue was that I asked you to explain how you came to your conclusion and you have danced around the question like a virgin contemplating se.x for the first time.

First you admonished me to read Sumerian texts that had been translated into Hebrew, then you advised me to go and learn meditation (fancy that!) and consult the “Akashic” records (what a laugh) now you say you drew your conclusion by “stepping out of time” and you then declare with grandiosity that “it is not up for debate” well, I guess that proves it then? As I said before, you sound extraordinarily defensive and the reasons are quite apparent.

Nobody is arguing with you sir, your findings are your findings! Nobody asked you for a recommendation of any sort and you do not have the standing or the wherewithal of affecting any decision of mine, not even if you tried.

Mr. Sarassin, people are waiting on your knowledge.
Please do teach sonic geometry and patterns of life.

Sarassin:


Quite correct, there’s no argument here, I am simply making my own points and equally you may choose to take cognizance of them or not. I have not disputed your experience that Allah is not Jehovah, to me the comparison is pointless since I believe in neither one. The issue was that I asked you to explain how you came to your conclusion and you have danced around the question like a virgin contemplating se.x for the first time.

First you admonished me to read Sumerian texts that had been translated into Hebrew, then you advised me to go and learn meditation (fancy that!) and consult the “Akashic” records (what a laugh) now you say you drew your conclusion by “stepping out of time” and you then declare with grandiosity that “it is not up for debate” well, I guess that proves it then? As I said before, you sound extraordinarily defensive and the reasons are quite apparent.

Nobody is arguing with you sir, your findings are your findings! Nobody asked you for a recommendation of any sort and you do not have the standing or the wherewithal of affecting any decision of mine, not even if you tried.

No matter how you choose to dance around this issues, I am not responsible for how you feel. It is not my fault that you do not know I am now an authority on certain aspects of research. May be you would have preferred to read from someone else in order to believe.

I am not here for the likes and I am simply stating the facts as you step outside the 3D. My 'consciousness awareness' can be where ever I am and I can ask questions and get answers directly from the Cosmic Field of Creation, I keep repeating but you will not listen, because you have no idea that there is something beyond your own understanding, and probably, may be you are egotistic enough to the point you believe your five senses can guide you to the truth beyond the limitation of the local five senses.

This is another reason I prefer to keep mum on these issues and allow you guys continue without a knowledge of how the planet was created, the battery nature of human beings and the data processing system of the Earth architecture. I understand the mechanics of the Universe and my life is a miracle. When you get to this point, you will have such understanding. But for now, it is okay for you to just 'disblieve'. I do not think anyone can get to the level of atheism I was and then decide to understand the Earth he walks.

And I have, and my journey is just beginning.

Energy is dense and unattractive until Power exposes it.
Holograph is The Fulcrum that bores holes in the Condensation to blow it open. And that is The Handiwork of God. The Hand that exploded The Big Bang was God.
God is Jehovah in The Vulgate version of the Bible and Allah in Quran.

realmindz:

Eledumare is God in Yoruba
But Eledumare is never Allah.
Now who's confused?

.

You.

Billyonaire:


No matter how you choose to dance around this issues, I am not responsible for how you feel. It is not my fault that you do not know I am now an authority on certain aspects of research. May be you would have preferred to read from someone else in order to believe.

I am not here for the likes and I am simply stating the facts as you step outside the 3D. My 'consciousness awareness' can be where ever I am and I can ask questions and get answers directly from the Cosmic Field of Creation, I keep repeating but you will not listen, because you have no idea that there is something beyond your own understanding, and probably, may be you are egotistic enough to the point you believe your five senses can guide you to the truth beyond the limitation of the local five senses.

This is another reason I prefer to keep mum on these issues and allow you guys continue without a knowledge of how the planet was created, the battery nature of human beings and the data processing system of the Earth architecture. I understand the mechanics of the Universe and my life is a miracle. When you get to this point, you will have such understanding. But for now, it is okay for you to just 'disblieve'. I do not think anyone can get to the level of atheism I was and then decide to understand the Earth he walks.

And I have, and my journey is just beginning.

My good sir, I am sure we are all happy for you that you are an authority in whatever it is that you are an authority in. Actually I was only ever interested in the answers to the questions I posed, that is, assuming you chose to condescend to providing an answer, I was expecting from you, a self-professed master of the universe, a succinct dissertation on the fundamental differences or similarities in attributes of both Abrahamic deities and their corresponding relationship to the creator entity you yourself alluded to.

Instead you filibustered with blustery language in the hope that you would divert attention from the substance of my questions and you then embarked on a journey of exploration of your own psychosis and insecurity. If you prefer to keep mum then please do so, no need to trumpet that fact, I never asked you how the universe was created, and why would I?

You cannot provide depth to a simple proposition you yourself propounded and yet you propose to tell us all how the universe was created?

It is good you started on your journey, one suspects you have a long walk ahead.

orunto27:
Energy is dense and unattractive until Power exposes it.
Holograph is The Fulcrum that bores holes in the Condensation to blow it open. And that is The Handiwork of God. The Hand that exploded The Big Bang was God.
God is Jehovah in The Vulgate version of the Bible and Allah in Quran.

God, Jehovah; it is יהוה (Yod Hé Vau Hé).

The predominant Hebrew Name for the active aspect of the Ayn as the Creator, Sustainer, and Destroyer of the Creation is the four letter formula י ה ו ה (vocalized by some as “Yahweh,” and more commonly as “Jehovah”).

The pronunciation of the Name יהוה as “Jehovah” first appeared in the Middle Ages in Jerome’s Vulgate Latin translation of the Tanakh, which became the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church. Jerome changed the י “Y” to “J”.

Jehovah is the way that most contemporary non-Jews pronounce the Name יהוה. The Name יהוה is sometimes pronounced “Yahweh.”

The Name יהוה is conventionally translated in scriptures as “Lord.”

The Name יהוה is only pronounced as Jehovah, and some Yahweh, but the Name is not pronounceable. The best way to pronounce it is as it is Yod Hé Vau Hé.

And about Allah, I don't really get somethings here, 'cuz the principal name given in the Quran and the Arabic word for God is Allah.

Allah is not a name, but Jehovah is.

Now, to bring more confusion, though the wise, a diligent searcher would not rebuke me nor rant at me but would go deeper in his search, Muhammad is not a true prophet!

shadeyinka:


The question is ,

Allah and Jehovah: are they the same?

Muslims will say: we worship Allah and we don't know Jehovah.

Christians and Jews will say we worship Jehovah!

Allah is not a name but a symbol or title; their ignorance won't let them wake up.

Jehovah is a Name but Elohim is a symbol like that of Allah; like the Psalmist says: Who is as great as our Elohim. Which is the same as Who is as great as our God.

Just as God Of Thunder is a title and his name is Sango; God of Iron a title, Ogun is his name.

I laugh when the muslim say May Allah bless you. For it is the same as May God bless you; why mix Arabic with English!

Do they worship different entities? That i can't say, for even Ishmael, the root of Muhammad, served the God of his father Abraham, whose name is IHVH, pronounced as Jehovah.

Everything turned upside when religion sets in.

The Christians, Muslims, and Jew are all in confusion. Each want to claim that his doctrine is the perfect one, which is a great delusion, for perfect doctrine is doing good to one another, not repaying evil for evil.

juanomowa:


Allah is not a name but a symbol or title; their ignorance won't let them wake up.

Jehovah is a Name but Elohim is a symbol like that of Allah; like the Psalmist says: Who is as great as our Elohim. Which is the same as Who is as great as our God.

Just as God Of Thunder is a title and his name is Sango; God of Iron a title, Ogun is his name.

I laugh when the muslim say May Allah bless you. For it is the same as May God bless you; why mix Arabic with English!

Do they worship different entities? That i can't say, for even Ishmael, the root of Muhammad, served the God of his father Abraham, whose name is IHVH, pronounced as Jehovah.

Everything turned upside when religion sets in.

The Christians, Muslims, and Jew are all in confusion. Each want to claim that his doctrine is the perfect one, which is a great delusion, for perfect doctrine is doing good to one another, not repaying evil for evil.

You are right!
Allah actually literally mean "the god"!

This " the god" was elevated to the status of Yahweh at the advent of Mohammed. Every attribute of Yahweh was ascribed to "the god" so that now every Muslim will want us to believe that " the god" created the heavens and the earth and that all the prophets of old worshipped this "the god".

In reality, Muslims have just replaced /Yahweh with their " the god" and they expect us all to believe it.

The perfect doctrine is that which Jesus preached. It consists of two major aspects
1. Salvation from the curse of sin for a guarantee of eternal life with God
2. Loving your neighbour as yourselves (with its reward of duty). "...because you did it to the least of my brethren, you have done it unto me".

Every other activity we do is Religion. Jesus did not preach religion, He preached a relationship with the FatherFatherFatherFatherFatherFather

shadeyinka:


You are right!
Allah actually literally mean "the god"!

This " the god" was elevated to the status of Yahweh at the advent of Mohammed. Every attribute of Yahweh was ascribed to "the god" so that now every Muslim will want us to believe that " the god" created the heavens and the earth and that all the prophets of old worshipped this "the god".

In reality, Muslims have just replaced /Yahweh with their " the god" and they expect us all to believe it.

The perfect doctrine is that which Jesus preached. It consists of two major aspects
1. Salvation from the curse of sin for a guarantee of eternal life with God
2. Loving your neighbour as yourselves (with its reward of duty). "...because you did it to the least of my brethren, you have done it unto me".

Every other activity we do is Religion. Jesus did not preach religion, He preached a relationship with the FatherFatherFatherFatherFatherFather

Well said.

As far as I learn, the people of those days which are Muhammad followers are idol worshippers; so he brought all their gods together in other to give it a name and call it one god which is allah. So they say 'Allah is one'. That is all the gods combined together makes one, allah.

But at the same time the only arabic word for God is Allah.

The Hausa will say Nagode Allah, which is 'Thank God', Christian arab will say Allah Al-Ab, which is God the Father.

shadeyinka:


You are right!
Allah actually literally mean "the god"!

This " the god" was elevated to the status of Yahweh at the advent of Mohammed. Every attribute of Yahweh was ascribed to "the god" so that now every Muslim will want us to believe that " the god" created the heavens and the earth and that all the prophets of old worshipped this "the god".

In reality, Muslims have just replaced /Yahweh with their " the god" and they expect us all to believe it.

The perfect doctrine is that which Jesus preached. It consists of two major aspects
1. Salvation from the curse of sin for a guarantee of eternal life with God
2. Loving your neighbour as yourselves (with its reward of duty). "...because you did it to the least of my brethren, you have done it unto me".

Every other activity we do is Religion. Jesus did not preach religion, He preached a relationship with the FatherFatherFatherFatherFatherFather

But if we leave aside the issue of Christian or Islamic doctrine could it not be that the Islamic “Allah” being an Abrahamic deity is etymologically merely a variation of the Christian or Hebrew YHWH with a unique and distinct Arabic interpretation?

If you state that Allah has had appropriated to itself the attributes of YHWH, is it not also a fair comment that YHWH has in turn had the attributes of the Canaanite supreme deity El attributed to it, i.e, the “Ancient of days” who governed the heavenly council and whose vizier was Baal, the god of regeneration who maintained the cycle of death and re-birth and came to be known as the original “rider of the clouds”?

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that each of these two major religions has in turn derived their inspiration from one major source?

Sarassin:


But if we leave aside the issue of Christian or Islamic doctrine could it not be that the Islamic “Allah” being an Abrahamic deity is etymologically merely a variation of the Christian or Hebrew YHWH with a unique and distinct Arabic interpretation?

If you state that Allah has had appropriated to itself the attributes of YHWH, is it not also a fair comment that YHWH has in turn had the attributes of the Canaanite supreme deity El attributed to it, i.e, the “Ancient of days” who governed the heavenly council and whose vizier was Baal, the god of regeneration who maintained the cycle of death and re-birth and came to be known as the original “rider of the clouds”?

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that each of these two major religions has in turn derived their inspiration from one major source?

You are confused. Name and titles are entirely two different things. El is God in their language, just as Allah is in arabic. Elohim is God in Hebrew, but the name of their God is YHVH.

[b] But if we leave aside the issue of Christian or Islamic doctrine could it not be that the Islamic “Allah” being an Abrahamic deity is etymologically merely a variation of the Christian or Hebrew YHWH with a unique and distinct Arabic interpretation? [b/]

Not at all. The question people ask here are too simple but answers are too deep. Many are mistaken and on funny beliefs from what they have read, studied, not from their own research.

And it is not allah that attributed itself to YHVH but the preachers.

"Is it beyond the realms of possibility that each of these two major religions has in turn derived their inspiration from one major source?"

It all started with Mahomet; who don't want to accept Jesus as the Son of God but as a mere man like him.

juanomowa:


You are confused. Name and titles are entirely two different things. El is God in their language, just as Allah is in arabic. Elohim is God in Hebrew, but the name of their God is YHVH.

[b] But if we leave aside the issue of Christian or Islamic doctrine could it not be that the Islamic “Allah” being an Abrahamic deity is etymologically merely a variation of the Christian or Hebrew YHWH with a unique and distinct Arabic interpretation? [b/]

Not at all. The question people ask here are too simple but answers are too deep. Many are mistaken and on funny beliefs from what they have read, studied, not from their own research.

And it is not allah that attributed itself to YHVH but the preachers.

"Is it beyond the realms of possibility that each of these two major religions has in turn derived their inspiration from one major source?"

It all started with Mahomet; who don't want to accept Jesus as the Son of God but as a mere man like him.

Perhaps you should read my post more carefully before accusing me of confusion. El stood as the proper name of the Canaanite Supreme deity at Ugarit, one of its other appellations was Elyon. I never wrote that Allah attributed itself to YHWH, read my post more carefully before jumping to erroneous conclusions.

Sarassin:


Perhaps you should read my post more carefully before accusing me of confusion. El stood as the proper name of the Canaanite Supreme deity at Ugarit, one of its other appellations was Elyon. I never wrote that Allah attributed itself to YHWH, read my post more carefully before jumping to erroneous conclusions.

lol this is why Billy do rant!

I may have misunderstood your message but...anyways.

Be yo'self.

No sooner had I thought billyonaire couldn't get more terribly pathetic than he dished out even more horrible loads of bollocks. Your style of proselytising, or whatever you want to term it, is the worst I have seen anywhere. You cast aspersions on others' religion while vainly promoting yours to high heaven, what a bad way to go about.

There's nothing new or special about your ermm... grotesque teachings even with all your efforts to portray them as such. And the fact that you are just stumbling upon what you think are unique revelations or esoterics or mysticism shouldn't engender a sense of privilege or self-importance in you. After all you're just a tiny speck in the multiverse.

A wee tips that could be helpful for gravitating more bozos to your teachings :
1. Do not besmirch other beliefs, after all we choose what we believe.
2. Make certain you pass at least a message in each of your posts rather than ranting, driveling, and equivocating. see OP for reference. You made absolutely no sense in the Op
3. You also need to start providing proofs, especially for a self-acclaimed scientist who reportedly used to be a flipping atheist, so as to kill this [b]you-have-believe-me-because-i-say-so[/b]syndrome
4. Rid your write-up of pomposity, grandiosity, and self-aggrandisement.
5. Stop using your infantile reverse-psychology—it's not working. It goes like this: "I don't want anybody to believe"... "do not read it"... blah blah blah. If you truly meant that stop posting your apocryphal tales on a public forum and create an off-public forum group for your gullible followers and yourself period.

juanomowa:


lol this is why Billy do rant!

I may have misunderstood your message but...anyways.

Be yo'self.

Thanking you kindly sir!

Billyonaire:
Jehovah is not Allah.


Please do your findings and you will come to the above conclusion. I have done mine and that it not the axis of my discourse with you, dear friends today. Today, is yet another beautiful day under the Sun, I guess we call it Sunday for that reason. So, I am compelled to share this, hoping I will continue to receive the wonderful inputs from friends on the quest for enlightenment.

If Jehovah is not Allah, then it means that Christians and Muslims worship separate entities and the word 'God' fits a perfect symbology of every religious Avatar, but if one goes down to the generic names and root of these names, it very glaringly exposes the very fabric of these two Arabic Religions. My question is; Why are many people not really investigating religions through the history lane ? I guess materialism and the quest for outward happiness has made humans totally unaware that real happiness is cheap and in fact free. The Creator made life easy, we made it complex, now we are lost in our paradox of illusion.

Muslims and Christians must reconcile and question who a greater 'God' is, between Jehovah and Allah, so they can worship as brothers, but if they are smarter, they could understand that there has been many Gods over history, and there are many Gods even as we type this.

We already know we are gods by now and so we have ability to control animals and use them as pets and mind-control other humans and use them as 'slave workers' and they 'worship' us in their own way.

So, is it with the religious believers in this two major religions. They have been worshiping, and I did the same, the very entities that made us what and who we are. It is not wrong, it is just stupidly right. We are not supposed to worship without investigating who the entity is. There is a Creator and there are Gods. The Creator Creates the Gods, the Gods creates the Humans and the Humans Creates AI Robot race which we will give a name to. It is the nature of evolution. Each race of entities must create a new specie and transfer consciousness to, so that the Primordial Creator, the Primary One, can continue to 'Observe' his Creative Abilities to advance himself and his creation and experience the cosmos through all its creation.

It is our responsibility to create an AI, and transfer our brain into that AI, which will have bodies to live almost forever, because our bodies can no longer function in such a mechanized planet. This nature of our body, its very coarseness will be phased out and our physical bodies are about to change to those of beautiful Barbies and toys, to the transgender game the exploration of sex objects, subjects and gadgets, well as destruction of the marriage setting is to prepare Humans for the next gender. In some star systems there are more than 5 genders, some have male female gender and in some individual races have three types of genders per each entity so brace up Earth Humans.

That is the future design for Homo Norvus. When you look at the AI robot, you are looking at yourself at a developmental stage of our very experimentation by the entities we call God, they are many so let's say Gods. We are a product of similar entities we now called God(s). That is the true position. We are artificial race compared to the Gods, they are the ancient of days. You will never comprehend what time is, until you step out of time capsule and see the universe at another vintage point outside of time and space. At singularity, everything becomes clearer.

Time and Space are by products of Cosmic Polarity. When you step outside of Time and Space, then you will see a greater version of the truth.

Everyone is right at their level, because ignorance is allowed, but it is disgusting when humans refuse to study their holy books but wait for religious teachers to dwell on folkstales and lies about miraculous prosperity instead telling people the truth.

Let us not be cowed by acts of miracles, it is a normal occurence using your mind as a soil. What we call Miracles are just magic but the difference is, one of the performers did it out of ignorance while the other do it intentional using known tested and trusted parameters but I think Magic and Miracles are derogatory word for the very Creative energy system which an Observer uses to collapse wavefunctions and create matter from the mind.


Back to energy.

Energy can not be destroyed nor created 'in our universe', please stay ahead of Quantum Physics and start adding that to your lexicon and this is the future. I have gone beyond quantum physics now on my research and currently will be studying at the Cosmic level of consciousness. Will share information I am allowed to share but brace up for impacts. The universe is a 3D condensation of cosmic light, it is the very low vibration, long wavelength pattern slowed down to stillness by the so called 'dark energy' that produces this effects and we are just bodies. Just robots out of light and sound and all the things you see are condensation of the holographic light. We are made of light, everything. So, it happens that this hologram has a unified field with a zero-sum system for total energy content of the universe to be materialzed from and when the matter dissipates, it returns to the default mode, which is energy. It is a zero-sum in the universe, but outside the hologram is a different formation which you need to become pure Spirit to even understand. It's a journey, we will get there just in time before breakfast.

The real life is outside the hologram, that is where all this creation was planned out and it has been fun so far seeing the Gods improve in knowledge and the Creator remains in the reach of all its creation. This is where true peace, love, joy and happiness is. When you are exposed to such frequency even once in a lifetime, your joy will be full. That is the real Heaven, not these mental conjectures they preach in religious. So, truth is, you can experience what Heaven 'feels' like while you are alive. I have had a glimpse of it, and my life has literally change before my eyes.

That's the end of my today's 'sermon' and I hope you do not believe me. Dare to join in my studies, research and Spiritual Explorations. I will drop inputs from time to time, but I may not be able to engage in arguments any longer because my energy signature is totally different and I dont wanna switch to the old self. That is why I say, do not believe me.

I cant believe I found that there is a Creator, I am still in awe. I know what I saw and experienced.

No sooner had I thought billyonaire couldn't get more terribly pathetic than he dished out even more horrible loads of bollocks. Your style of proselytising, or whatever you want to term it, is the worst I have seen anywhere. You cast aspersions on others' religion while vainly promoting yours to high heaven, what a bad way to go about.

There's nothing new or special about your ermm... grotesque teachings even with all your efforts to portray them as such. And the fact that you are just stumbling upon what you think are unique revelations or esoterics or mysticism shouldn't engender a sense of privilege or self-importance in you. After all you're just a tiny speck in the multiverse.

A wee tips that could be helpful for gravitating more bozos to your teachings :
1. Do not besmirch other beliefs, after all we choose what we believe.
2. Make certain you pass at least a message in each of your posts rather than ranting, driveling, and equivocating. see OP for reference. You made absolutely no sense in the Op
3. You also need to start providing proofs, especially for a self-acclaimed scientist who reportedly used to be a flipping atheist, so as to kill this [b]you-have-believe-me-because-i-say-so [/b]syndrome
4. Rid your write-ups of pomposity, grandiosity, and self-aggrandisement.
5. Stop using your infantile reverse-psychology—it's not working. It goes like this: "I don't want anybody to believe"... "do not read it"... blah blah blah. If you truly meant that stop posting your apocryphal tales on a public forum and create an off-public forum group for your gullible followers and yourself period.
(Modify)

juanomowa:


Well said.

As far as I learn, the people of those days which are Muhammad followers are idol worshippers; so he brought all their gods together in other to give it a name and call it one god which is allah. So they say 'Allah is one'. That is all the gods combined together makes one, allah.

But at the same time the only arabic word for God is Allah.

The Hausa will say Nagode Allah, which is 'Thank God', Christian arab will say Allah Al-Ab, which is God the Father.

Of course, Jehovah understands whether His worshippers call Him Allah (Arab Christians), Allah (Hausa Christians) or God (English Christians).

But the point is, the Allah of Mohammed, is He the same as Jehovah?

The obvious answer of NO!

aadoiza:


No sooner had I thought billyonaire couldn't get more terribly pathetic than he dished out even more horrible loads of bollocks. Your style of proselytising, or whatever you want to term it, is the worst I have seen anywhere. You cast aspersions on others' religion while vainly promoting yours to high heaven, what a bad way to go about.

There's nothing new or special about your ermm... grotesque teachings even with all your efforts to portray them as such. And the fact that you are just stumbling upon what you think are unique revelations or esoterics or mysticism shouldn't engender a sense of privilege or self-importance in you. After all you're just a tiny speck in the multiverse.

A wee tips that could be helpful for gravitating more bozos to your teachings :
1. Do not besmirch other beliefs, after all we choose what we believe.
2. Make certain you pass at least a message in each of your posts rather than ranting, driveling, and equivocating. see OP for reference. You made absolutely no sense in the Op
3. You also need to start providing proofs, especially for a self-acclaimed scientist who reportedly used to be a flipping atheist, so as to kill this [b]you-have-believe-me-because-i-say-so [/b]syndrome
4. Rid your write-ups of pomposity, grandiosity, and self-aggrandisement.
5. Stop using your infantile reverse-psychology—it's not working. It goes like this: "I don't want anybody to believe"... "do not read it"... blah blah blah. If you truly meant that stop posting your apocryphal tales on a public forum and create an off-public forum group for your gullible followers and yourself period.
(Modify)

Thank you

Sarassin:


But if we leave aside the issue of Christian or Islamic doctrine could it not be that the Islamic “Allah” being an Abrahamic deity is etymologically merely a variation of the Christian or Hebrew YHWH with a unique and distinct Arabic interpretation?

If you state that Allah has had appropriated to itself the attributes of YHWH, is it not also a fair comment that YHWH has in turn had the attributes of the Canaanite supreme deity El attributed to it, i.e, the “Ancient of days” who governed the heavenly council and whose vizier was Baal, the god of regeneration who maintained the cycle of death and re-birth and came to be known as the original “rider of the clouds”?

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that each of these two major religions has in turn derived their inspiration from one major source?

El is actually a generic Semitic and Canaanite term for Deity. And so, just like the English word God was derived from the Germanic languages Gott (a tribal diety). But generically, we all use the term God as a Title for the Almighty Creator.

Jehovah/Yahweh actually has attributes very different from the Canaanite gods (including Bal- chief god) in that Jehovah is exclusively ONE and no other diety apart from Him. He doesn't have wives, or partners. This is different from the gods of the Canaanites.

However, the Jews regarded the Almighty's personal name Yahweh or Jehovah as too holy to be muttered by the mortal lips hence there preference for
Adonai
El shaddai, El.... Etc

The same root of Al' lah (the god) in Arabic is El (Hebrew). Both are semitic languages and they are Titles or generic term for Diety.

The Question then is,
If Islam claim its root from Judaism and Christianity, is their Allah the same as Jehovah?

Ask any Moslem: the answer is NO!

Their Allah is Allah!
Their Allah is NOT Jehovah!

I don't think that I am being hard on Muslims. Its an obvious fact to which no Muslim want to openly admit as true.

shadeyinka:


El is actually a generic Semitic and Canaanite term for Deity. And so, just like the English word God was derived from the Germanic languages Gott (a tribal diety). But generically, we all use the term God as a Title for the Almighty Creator.

Jehovah/Yahweh actually has attributes very different from the Canaanite gods (including Bal- chief god) in that Jehovah is exclusively ONE and no other diety apart from Him. He doesn't have wives, or partners. This is different from the gods of the Canaanites.

However, the Jews regarded the Almighty's personal name Yahweh or Jehovah as too holy to be muttered by the mortal lips hence there preference for
Adonai
El shaddai, El.... Etc

The same root of Al' lah (the god) in Arabic is El (Hebrew). Both are semitic languages and they are Titles or generic term for Diety.

The Question then is,
If Islam claim its root from Judaism and Christianity, is their Allah the same as Jehovah?

Ask any Moslem: the answer is NO!

Their Allah is Allah!
Their Allah is NOT Jehovah!

I don't think that I am being hard on Muslims. Its an obvious fact to which no Muslim want to openly admit as true.

I disagree with parts of your submission. EL actually stood as the name of the Canaanite supreme deity, he was worshipped as EL it is this precise attribute that has been borrowed and transposed to the Abrahamic faiths, i.e the use of the term El for God. It stood initially as a name like Yam, Mot, Anat and others and has latterly come to be a generic term for God.

Strictly speaking from an etymological point of view the prophets of YHWH ascribed a lot of the attributes of El to YHWH. I gave the examples of “Ancient of Days” which was the Canaanite description of their supreme deity El and the concept of the Divine council. The worship of the consort of YHWH persisted into the days of the second Jerusalem temple where Asherah, initially the consort of El had been transposed into the consort of YHWH and had a statue in the said temple. It is clear that early Hebrews vacillated between the worship of El and YHWH. For instance Jacob wrestles with the angel of God, he gathers a few stones to lay his head on to sleep and in the morning he names the spot Beth-El, not Beth-Yah.

The tetragrammaton YHWH is exactly that, a non-descript place-holder for the personal name of the Hebrew deity that is so holy it is buried deep in Jewish esoterica. The true name of the Hebrew deity is considered so holy as to be unutterable by the great unwashed, the other consideration of course was that if the name of their all-powerful deity got into the hands of their enemies, he could be invoked against them too! Point being very few Christians if any know the true name of the deity they worship.

Muslims say that their Allah is not YHWH, Christians too state that YHWH is not Allah but both claim their deity is an almighty one, both cannot be right. Neither religious claims to an almighty God is more valid than the other even though each vehemently claims otherwise.

Sarassin:


I disagree with parts of your submission. EL actually stood as the name of the Canaanite supreme deity, he was worshipped as EL it is this precise attribute that has been borrowed and transposed to the Abrahamic faiths, i.e the use of the term El for God. It stood initially as a name like Yam, Mot, Anat and others and has latterly come to be a generic term for God.

Strictly speaking from an etymological point of view the prophets of YHWH ascribed a lot of the attributes of El to YHWH. I gave the examples of “Ancient of Days” which was the Canaanite description of their supreme deity El and the concept of the Divine council. The worship of the consort of YHWH persisted into the days of the second Jerusalem temple where Asherah, initially the consort of El had been transposed into the consort of YHWH and had a statue in the said temple. It is clear that early Hebrews vacillated between the worship of El and YHWH. For instance Jacob wrestles with the angel of God, he gathers a few stones to lay his head on to sleep and in the morning he names the spot Beth-El, not Beth-Yah.

Its like the saying: "which came first- the chicken or the egg". The Canaanites was a Semitic-speaking region in the Ancient Near East during the late 2nd millennium BC of which technically, the Jews belonged. And thats why you will see a similarity even between the Arabic Al' lah and Hebrew El (both also are semitic languages) and belong to the same canaanite root.

The word Canaanites serves as an ethnic catch-all term covering various indigenous populations—both settled and nomadic-pastoral groups—throughout the regions of the southern Levant or Canaan

If the Story of creation and the Noahs are taken literally, it means that a corruption of the personality of the diety who created everything must have occurred over time.

The story of Abraham coming out of his fathers house (of corruption) to form a separate community may now make sense. So, even if your argument was correct, we could say that Abraham was called out to a correct placement of the Almighty God for who He is, different from the corruption's introduced by the Canaanites.

Sarassin:

The tetragrammaton YHWH is exactly that, a non-descript place-holder for the personal name of the Hebrew deity that is so holy it is buried deep in Jewish esoterica. The true name of the Hebrew deity is considered so holy as to be unutterable by the great unwashed, the other consideration of course was that if the name of their all-powerful deity got into the hands of their enemies, he could be invoked against them too! Point being very few Christians if any know the true name of the deity they worship.

I perfectly agree with you on this.

Sarassin:

Muslims say that their Allah is not YHWH, Christians too state that YHWH is not Allah but both claim their deity is an almighty one, both cannot be right. Neither religious claims to an almighty God is more valid than the other even though each vehemently claims otherwise.

It is true, both cannot be right. Allah IS NOT Yahweh!

Then, the question then reduces to
1. Who was the God of Abraham? Allah/Yahweh!
2. Who was the God of the other prophets revered by both the Christians and the Muslims?Allah/Yahweh!

Islam claims to believe in the earlier revealed Scripture where the name Allah or "the god" does not appear as the name of God.

In other words, if Abraham is the Father of Monotheism, and he served Yahweh, then Yahweh must be Allah for it to be said that we worship the same God. But since Allah is NOT Yahweh it is clear that we worship not the same God.

Secondly, Allah seems to hate the very people Yahweh loves (the Jews).
There is reward for a Muslim who kills a Jew in paradise. Jews are regarded as "Unclean" in Islam (no Muslim will allow a Jew to touch his Quran). In the end times, even stones and rocks will speak out to Muslims to see where a Jew is hiding so that he could be killed.

Do you see, Allah and Yahweh should actually be enemies.

3. Simple logics show that
i. Muslim say " We worship the God of your Prophets "
ii. The name of the God of our prophets is Jehovah
iii. Muslims claim the Name of their god is not Jehovah but Allah (600 years later)
Conclusion:
Muslims could not be worshipping the God of our Prophets.

Sarassin:
I disagree with parts of your submission.
EL actually stood as the name of the Canaanite supreme deity, he was worshipped as EL it is this precise attribute that has been borrowed and transposed to the Abrahamic faiths,
i.e the use of the term El for God.
It stood initially as a name like Yam, Mot, Anat and others and has latterly come to be a generic term for God

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
- Genesis 1:1

I beg to differ with all parts of your submission
God, is God, is El, before the darling Canaanite supreme deity
God, is God, is El, before the Abrahamic faiths
Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM

God, (i.e. El), in a pure manner but using a definition lacking sophistication, merely means Power or Influence.
Meanwhile if there is Good Power or bad power, Good Influence and bad influence(s)
It's not far fetched to say, El is used for the true God or false gods,

Sarassin:
Strictly speaking from an etymological point of view the prophets of YHWH ascribed a lot of the attributes of El to YHWH. I gave the examples of “Ancient of Days” which was the Canaanite description of their supreme deity El and the concept of the Divine council. The worship of the consort of YHWH persisted into the days of the second Jerusalem temple where Asherah, initially the consort of El had been transposed into the consort of YHWH and had a statue in the said temple. It is clear that early Hebrews vacillated between the worship of El and YHWH.
For instance Jacob wrestles with the angel of God, he gathers a few stones to lay his head on to sleep and in the morning he names the spot Beth-El, not Beth-Yah

Who do you think the Angel of God is?
Jacob named the spot appropriately, by calling the spot, House of God
He would have been unduly forward namimg the spot House of Yah
The patriarchs dont know God (i.e. El) well enough to be resorting to calling God (i.e. El) by His personal or first name
or be naming spots after God using God's personal or first name
Familiarity breeds contempt

Sarassin:
The tetragrammaton YHWH is exactly that, a non-descript place-holder for the personal name of the Hebrew deity that is so holy it is buried deep in Jewish esoterica.
The true name of the Hebrew deity is considered so holy as to be unutterable by the great unwashed, the other consideration of course was that if the name of their all-powerful deity got into the hands of their enemies, he could be invoked against them too!
Point being very few Christians if any know the true name of the deity they worship

So on point

There is something about wanting to know the proper name of God
Three times God was asked about his proper personal or first name, three times He was evasive
Jacob, Moses and Manoah tried
but each time and/or on all ocassions He is asked, God, doesn't and/or never divulges His proper name

shadeyinka:
I perfectly agree with you on this

I perfectly agree with him on it too

Jacob and Manoah got the "Why do you ask of my name" responses back

Moses initially got a "I AM WHO I AM" response
but then this soon got refined to "I AM (i.e. "I am" or "I will be" or "I shall be" )
when God said to Moses:
"Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you"

Sarassin:
Muslims say that their Allah is not YHWH,
Christians too state that YHWH is not Allah
but both claim their deity is an almighty one, both cannot be right.
Neither religious claims to an almighty God is more valid than the other even though each vehemently claims otherwise.

Shall we, just say, let sleeping dogs lie

Sarassin:

Hello Sir
I perceive that you were a student of Theology. Your writings glaringly betrays that. Theologians are more interested in the Academics of religion rather than "Faith" (my opinion).

Can you open a new thread and write on this!?
Deliverance, Demons and Hypnotism

I'll like to know how theologians deal with these issues

shadeyinka:
Hello Sir
I perceive that you were a student of Theology.
Your writings glaringly betrays that.
Theologians are more interested in the Academics of religion rather than "Faith" (my opinion).

Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense
that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ
- Colossians 2:8

And when the woman saw that the tree (i.e. the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat
- Genesis 3:6

You give theologians a bad name
Theology, essentially is tracking God
Theologians, at the start, all, are in pursuit of information, the knowledge of God
The knowledge of God and wisdom (i.e. decisions making done) are known to be deliberately interfered with, when led down false trail(s) by hunt saboteur(s)

shadeyinka:
Can you open a new thread and write on this!?
Deliverance, Demons and Hypnotism

I'll like to know how theologians deal with these issues

The good, the bad and the ugly?
Sarassin's profile, his opened threads and posted comments should suffice

MuttleyLaff:

Don't let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense
that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ
- Colossians 2:8

And when the woman saw that the tree (i.e. the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat
- Genesis 3:6

You give theologians a bad name
Theology, essentially is tracking God
Theologians, at the start, all, are in pursuit of information, the knowledge of God
The knowledge of God and wisdom (i.e. decisions making done) are known to be deliberately interfered with, when led down false trail(s) by hunt saboteur(s)

The good, the bad and the ugly?
Sarassin's profile, his opened threads and posted comments should suffice

I once read a theological textbook which explained away the ten plagues of Egypt as natural occurrence that coincidentally occurred. Even thebcrossingbof the Red Sea was argued as a tide phenomenon etc.

Sometimes, I wonder how a person can maintain his faith while subscribing to the believe that the bible is just another literature which at best is unreliable. Plato, Socrates are trusted 1000 times over the bible as their source of information

shadeyinka:

Its like the saying: "which came first- the chicken or the egg". The Canaanites was a Semitic-speaking region in the Ancient Near East during the late 2nd millennium BC of which technically, the Jews belonged. And thats why you will see a similarity even between the Arabic Al' lah and Hebrew El (both also are semitic languages) and belong to the same canaanite root.

The word Canaanites serves as an ethnic catch-all term covering various indigenous populations—both settled and nomadic-pastoral groups—throughout the regions of the southern Levant or Canaan

If the Story of creation and the Noahs are taken literally, it means that a corruption of the personality of the diety who created everything must have occurred over time.

I agree. Etymologically the Arabic Al ‘lah is derived from the Hebrew El as its root source, however I go further to say that the Hebrew El is a direct transposition and assimilation of the ancient Canaanite El who was the named head of the Canaanite pantheon of gods comprising of El, his consort and his 70 sons.

We should consider that Ugarit writings predate Hebrew scriptures by up to 1500 years. The Hebrews as a distinct group did not emerge in the Levant until well after the Ugaritic city had vanished but the culture of the city evidently persisted. There is no doubt in my mind that Hebrew scriptures are heavily influenced by ancient Canaanite culture, for instance sacrificial practices and ordinances found in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy are practically word for word Ugaritic practices, a lot of the Psalms attributed to David are songs of praise to Ugaritic/Canaanite deities.

As I wrote before Asherah consort of El, fully documented 1000 years before Hebrew scripture was compiled eventually became the consort of YHWH before its adoration was finally outlawed in the first century because Hebrew writers wished to ascribe the attributes of El to YHWH therefore …they took his wife.

Islam, very much like Christianity has taken Judaism as its root source, Judaism in turn has its root source in ancient Canaanite practice, nothing unusual there.

shadeyinka:

It is true, both cannot be right. Allah IS NOT Yahweh!

Then, the question then reduces to
1. Who was the God of Abraham? Allah/Yahweh!
2. Who was the God of the other prophets revered by both the Christians and the Muslims?Allah/Yahweh!

Islam claims to believe in the earlier revealed Scripture where the name Allah or "the god" does not appear as the name of God.

In other words, if Abraham is the Father of Monotheism, and he served Yahweh, then Yahweh must be Allah for it to be said that we worship the same God. But since Allah is NOT Yahweh it is clear that we worship not the same God.

Secondly, Allah seems to hate the very people Yahweh loves (the Jews).
There is reward for a Muslim who kills a Jew in paradise. Jews are regarded as "Unclean" in Islam (no Muslim will allow a Jew to touch his Quran). In the end times, even stones and rocks will speak out to Muslims to see where a Jew is hiding so that he could be killed.

Do you see, Allah and Yahweh should actually be enemies.

3. Simple logics show that
i. Muslim say " We worship the God of your Prophets "
ii. The name of the God of our prophets is Jehovah
iii. Muslims claim the Name of their god is not Jehovah but Allah (600 years later)
Conclusion:
Muslims could not be worshipping the God of our Prophets.

I am not saying that Allah is Jehovah, I take no position on the matter but I think neither Christians nor Muslims can make an unbiased determination, it is not our subjectivity that defines whether these entities are the same or not. If we remove the doctrinal aspects, a study of the attributes of both deities will reveal that they are far similar in nature than first seems apparent. It seems to me if not one and the same, then different branches of the same tree.

MuttleyLaff:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
- Genesis 1:1

I beg to differ with all parts of your submission
God, is God, is El, before the darling Canaanite supreme deity
God, is God, is El, before the Abrahamic faiths
Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM

God, (i.e. El), in a pure manner but using a definition lacking sophistication, merely means Power or Influence.
Meanwhile if there is Good Power or bad power, Good Influence and bad influence(s)
It's not far fetched to say, El is used for the true God or false gods,

Differ you may, I am well aware of that verse. The Book of Genesis was composed roughly around the 8th century BCE in the priestly courts. Religious doctrine does not replace historicity, ever. El was the head of the Canaanite pantheon of Gods comprising itself, its consort and 70 sons. The worship of El predated the Hebrew worship of YHWH by more than a thousand years. Thankfully they kept written documents.

MuttleyLaff:

Who do you think the Angel of God is? Jacob named the spot appropriately, by calling the spot, House of God
He would have been unduly forward namimg the spot House of Yah
The patriarchs dont know God (i.e. El) well enough to be resorting to calling God (i.e. El) by His personal or first name
or be naming spots after God using God's personal or first name Familiarity breeds contempt

Etymologically speaking the assimilation of the attributes of the Canaanite El as the supreme deity by the Hebrew prophets to YHWH would have occurred over a vast amount of time. The scriptures provides a time scale, we see Moses destroying the golden calf, we see Saul turning to other gods, we see the prophets Jeremiah and Elijah imploring the Israelites to remain faithful to YHWH we see that even as late as the first century there was a statue of Asherah in the main temple in Jerusalem. You know as well as I do that the early Israelites worshipped many gods.

shadeyinka:


I once read a theological textbook which explained away the ten plagues of Egypt as natural occurrence that coincidentally occurred. Even thebcrossingbof the Red Sea was argued as a tide phenomenon etc.

Sometimes, I wonder how a person can maintain his faith while subscribing to the believe that the bible is just another literature which at best is unreliable. Plato, Socrates are trusted 1000 times over the bible as their source of information

I studied theology although I am not a practising theologian, I studied Jewish esoterica in the form of Lurian Qabalah, as well as other esoteric systems I need not go into here. I was taught four levels of scriptural interpretation namely; Peshat : being the direct interpretations of meanings, Remez : the allegoric meanings of things. Derash : comparative meaning with similar words or verses, and Sod : the inner, esoteric (metaphysical) meanings, expressed in kabbalah.

The Rabbis who taught me had a loquacious saying that “the scriptures are for the masses” it took me a very long time to understand the full import of those words.

The perceived unreliability of scripture is due largely to a lack of contextual interpretation. Christianity has taken a book replete with illuminatory and gnosis inducing verses and applied a simplistic interpretation across the board.

Sarassin:


I studied theology although I am not a practising theologian, I studied Jewish esoterica in the form of Lurian Qabalah, as well as other esoteric systems I need not go into here. I was taught four levels of scriptural interpretation namely; Peshat : being the direct interpretations of meanings, Remez : the allegoric meanings of things. Derash : comparative meaning with similar words or verses, and Sod : the inner, esoteric (metaphysical) meanings, expressed in kabbalah.

The Rabbis who taught me had a loquacious saying that “the scriptures are for the masses” it took me a very long time to understand the full import of those words.

The perceived unreliability of scripture is due largely to a lack of contextual interpretation. Christianity has taken a book replete with illuminatory and gnosis inducing verses and applied a simplistic interpretation across the board.

I see.

The best way I know to understand the scripture is to see it as "a Chronicle" of the writers understanding of the dealings of God with men as a means of education to the others.

I think the use of the word "unreliability" is too harsh. If it is unreliable, it is not worthy to be used as doctrine isn't it?

Despite all, the basic principles still works...as the letter kill but its the spirit that gives life.

Miracles still happen in His name and the message is to build the society not to destroy it.

Every Christian need to understand the Scriptures in its context and not always as literal. The Bible was not written as a Historical book, it is a chronicle of how a writer understands Gods dealings with men

shadeyinka:

I see.

The best way I know to understand the scripture is to see it as "a Chronicle" of the writers understanding of the dealings of God with men as a means of education to the others......

Every Christian need to understand the Scriptures in its context and not always as literal. The Bible was not written as a Historical book, it is a chronicle of how a writer understands Gods dealings with men

I think that’s a very good point. In the study of Divinity one is made to separate pure doctrinal theses from the historical and etymological aspects and it is for that reason a theologian for instance can keep his faith and still question fundamental aspects of his religion. Many theologians I know are deeply sceptical of their religion per se but have no issues with faith which is a different matter entirely. The whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

For me, the best way to understand the scriptures is to understand it as it was intended by its compilers.