Henry120:


Stop masturbating, Provide Sound Technical Evidence, counter-proof of what are the facts.

Mr Day provide empirical evidence. Since you are unable to match my sources, you retort to naming French and Saudi Navies. Thing is, based on available evidence, the Frigates South-Africa got are no more than basic gunboats.

Consensus is not based on facts that are available for your Frigates. The facts that are available prove beyond all doubts that South-African Navy Frigates are obsolete!


There is no current requirement for the Aradu, and by far, Aradu is a more powerful boat than the Valour Frigate which the South-African Navy operates. Infact in some Navies, the Aradu is described as a Destroyer.

1. Allegations by Mr Day, not facts, allegations. His bias is readily apparent since his company lost out on the bid and subsequently had to shut down.

2. The fact that the French, Saudi and South African Navies all chose the combat suite for their vessels (11 Frigates and a Nuclear Aircraft Carrier) suggests that his accusations are baseless. And shows that international Naval consensus is that the Combat Suite is, at the very least, adequate.

3. Is the Valour Class is obsolete... how is the Aradu not beyond obsolete

Aradu is an ancient POS, no crew to man her, no training, ancient missiles, ancient systems.... utter trash.

Some Navies consider the Aradu a destroyer? Are you fvcking kidding me? Aradu is smaller than the Valour Class, so if its a destroyer... then so are the Valour Class

Ok, henry, we have reached the point where you simply repeat yourself over and over and over

So let me turn this argument on its head... tell me this... Valour Class combat suit is obsolete? Obsolete compared to what?

Henry120:


There is no current requirement for the Aradu, and
by far, Aradu is a more powerful boat than the Valour
Frigate which the South-African Navy operates.
Infact in some Navies, the Aradu is described as a
Destroyer.

Shut up!!! I don't even think you even know what makes a boat to be powerful. It is not how it looks or how it runs, it is the kind of weapons it carries to attack as well as to protect itself. Arandu is dead and is only supposed to be locked in the dock and left there to rot as its final resting place or keep it in the museum. I really fail to understand how do you compare that obsolete piece of corrugated iron to a new generation technology of the valour class with new generation class of weapons. Your old granny Arandu will not be spared a day before a single valour queen. It won't just cope to contain the valour class, sorry!!!

Henry120:


Your Project Biro is from 1991. It was conceptualised to replace your Strike craft, and expanded to include OPVs. Now, both the OPVs and IPVs are vessels you don't even have in service, that's 24 years and counting.


You wait 24 years to procure 3 IPVs and 3 OPVs, yet you still don't have any of them in service, the wait continues!


Every year is a Project Biro for the Nigerian Navy.

Again, who said that Project Biro started in 1991?

You keep saying it

Yet you refuse to substantiate it.

Henry120:


AndrewZA, the South-African Navy officer confirms this. Mzilakazi, the clown who claims to be a South-African Army Soldier also confirms this.

Is that what AndrewZA said?

You liar, you filthy filthy liar.

This is what you need to do to find something to fault the SAN on? Make things up?

Fact is, from 2000-2020 SAN would have aquired 4 Frigates, 3 Subs, 3 OPV's, 3 IPV's and a Hydrographic vessel - all state of the art, all first hand.

In that same period of time... the only brand new thing you have gotten is a couple (2) OPV's

Pathetic Coast Gaurd

Patchesagain:

Again, who said that Project Biro started in 1991?
You keep saying it
Yet you refuse to substantiate it.

Henry is a psychopath. It is now a high time that we must stop taking him seriously.

Henry120:


The Jokes on the South-African Navy and their obsolete Frigates brah!

You should be thanking them.

NNS Aradu vs SAS Mendi
Which looks more obsolete?

Henry120:


1. No, Vessel Hulls undergo a series of renewal during the service life of each vessel. Each ship transferred to the Nigerian Navy so active frontline actions up until only a few weeks before they were transferred to the Nigerian Navy.

Each boat transferred also saw a significant investment of $8 million in systems up-grade and re-birth. Each Vessel transferred to the Nigerian Navy, given the number of up-grades can well be classified as new.

2. Go read up on Regional maritime awareness capability (R-MACK) system onbaord the vessels.

3. NNS cenetnary is an enlarged derivative of the Type-056 corvette, it is a light Frigate.

4. Patches689, you made those claims over and over again. They are all archived in this thread. You said your Navy was going to get 3 Frigates, 3 OPVs and 3 IPVs. It is on record.

You set an all new record for denying your own comments!

1. All vessels were over 60 years old and at the end of their hull-life. That is why the USCG decommissioned them and gave them to you for free

2. No, fvck that, show me stats, details, information... what is this R-MACK you speak of?

3. Yes, and the enlarged derivative still falls short of 2000t making it a Corvette. Unless it is approaching 3000t then it is no where near a "light" frigate

4. Then quote where I said it. You wish to call me a liar? Then show us where I lied!

Henry120, yet again, you astound me with your disgusting antics and tactics. Even Augbug would not sink so low as to do such.

Shameful/10

Henry120:


Apparently Andrewza, the South-African Navy officer confirms this.

Should he also go read Einsteins definition of insanity?

Confirmed what exactly?

Henry120:


Apparently Andrewza, the South-African Navy officer confirms this.

Should he also go read Einsteins definition of insanity?

O really?

andrewza:

But I will say project Biro was not started 1991 just the navy decided to look in to replacing the strike craft[/b].

[size=13pt]Awwwww-sheeeitt

The Irony when (on the very day he calls others liars) Hununubugu120 is exposed for telling lies!! AHAHAHAHA

You just got wrecked, son [/size]

SANDF

mzilakazi:



Shut up!!! I don't even think you even know what makes a boat to be powerful. It is not how it looks or how it runs, it is the kind of weapons it carries to attack as well as to protect itself. Arandu is dead and is only supposed to be locked in the dock and left there to rot as its final resting place or keep it in the museum. I really fail to understand how do you compare that obsolete piece of corrugated iron to a new generation technology of the valour class with new generation class of weapons. Your old granny Arandu will not be spared a day before a single valour queen. It won't just cope to contain the valour class, sorry!!!

hey! you called me

jln115:

Really mate? at least I don't believe in fairy tales.

but you believe in project biro? A classic example of fairy tale.

BOKO HARAM CAPTURES A LOT OF MILITARY HARDWARE



http://ginjaland.com/article/boko-haram-releases-new-video-shows-off-weapons-beheading

RECENT VIDEO OF BOKO HARAM

SANDF

[size=15pt]

JUST FOUND THIS

EXPLANATION NEEDED

http://www.tvcnews.tv/?q=article/boko-haram-latest-video

PLEASE CAN SOMEBODY CONFIRM IF THEY ARE F7's!!

INSURGENTS STANDING AROUND AND FILMING (by my count) 5-7 BURNING NAF FIGHTERS
[/size]

http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-40159/

Then some on here have the guts to say Denel produces crap. Talk to us when the likes of Airbus approach you for a partnership. Otherwise stop making noise.



The Iraqi Army Air Corps' EC635 light helicopters are now armed with machineguns, cannons, rockets and Ingwe missiles provided by South Africa and Airbus Helicopters.
....
Some five years ago Eurocopter, as Airbus Helicopters then was, approached Denel Dynamics about integrating the missile onto its EC635 as part of the Stand Alone Weapon System (SAWS) weapons kit.The SAWS was jointly designed, developed, manufactured and supported by Eurocopter and Advanced Technologies and Engineering (ATE - now Paramount Advanced Technologies). 

Patchesagain:


Were tenders released?

Is a tender paper a ship?

agaugust:


Is a tender paper a ship?

It becomes one

Patchesagain:


In your picture the Ship is firing a missile - so they are obviously fighting in those conditions

Angola did not call you, you found the pirates inside YOUR waters

You dont have a blue water navy - South Africa does (4 Frigates, 3 submarines, Maritime replenishment vessel). You dont even have a navy - you have a coast guard!!

O, I see, you said "based on current conditions"... well guess what, our Frigates have longer range, carry better sensors and have operational helos... and we have a re-supply vessel that extends their range... so we still win in AP duties


Go back to bragging about your 44 year old fleet of Coast Guard worthy vessels

Bwhahaha Your Warrior strike craft have NO missiles anymore ! They were removed years ago and dumped !

Now it's only a gunboat, and with the sea waves shaking your fake OPV to dance water makossa, your gunners cannot fire a gun that is tumbling and rolling about on the waves.

Your Frigate is not an OPV, your submarine is not an OPV, why did you not send Mandela's submarine to answer distress call from Angola?

SAN is OPV dead.....Angola hates your uselessness
.

Patchesagain:


In your picture the Ship is firing a missile - so they are obviously fighting in those conditions

Angola did not call you, you found the pirates inside YOUR waters

You dont have a blue water navy - South Africa does (4 Frigates, 3 submarines, Maritime replenishment vessel). You dont even have a navy - you have a coast guard!!

Bwhahaha Your Warrior strike craft have NO missiles anymore ! They were removed years ago and dumped !

Now it's only a gunboat, and with the sea waves shaking your fake OPV to dance water makossa, your gunners cannot fire a gun that is tumbling and rolling about on the waves.

Your Frigate is not an OPV, your submarine is not an OPV, why did you not send Mandela's submarine to answer distress call from Angola?

SAN is OPV dead.....Angola hates your uselessness
.

agaugust:


Bwhahaha Your Warrior strike craft have NO missiles anymore ! They were removed years ago and dumped !

Now it's only a gunboat, and with the sea waves shaking your fake OPV to dance water makossa, your gunners cannot fire a gun that is tumbling and rolling about on the waves.

Your Frigate is not an OPV, your submarine is not an OPV, why did you not send Mandela's submarine to answer distress call from Angola?

SAN is OPV dead.....Angola hates your uselessness
.

Warrior Class cant use its gun? Stop expressing your ignorance

The 76mm is stabilized and automated - it can still be used

Distress calls from Angola? Stop being childish!

There were no distress calls, and what do you want us to do? Sail from Simons Town into YOUR waters to catch pirates? Are you asking for SAN to come and secure your waters as well?

We have an actual Navy - with warships

It is your navy that is dead, replaced by a Coast Guard composed of rusty 60 year old vessels!

Patchesagain:
[size=15pt]

JUST FOUND THIS

EXPLANATION NEEDED

http://www.tvcnews.tv/?q=article/boko-haram-latest-video

PLEASE CAN SOMEBODY CONFIRM IF THEY ARE F7's!!

INSURGENTS STANDING AROUND AND FILMING (by my count) 5-7 BURNING NAF FIGHTERS
[/size]

Definitely, those are F7 jets

jln115:

1. We commissioned 4 Frigates and 3 Subs in the same time frame!!!
2. 4 Frigates, 3 Subs!!
3. 1 Warrior class armed with missiles= bye bye most of the NN
4. Never was there a Project Biro ever in any day of the NNs existence.

1. Nope, not in one day, you commissioned 4 frigates and 3 subs over a period of about 5 years, but Nigeria commissioned 4 ships in one day.

2. You have crew to fully man only one frigate and one submarine, the rest are short of qualified sailors to man all stations on board ship

3. Warrior class missiles have been deleted years ago, it's now a freaking gunboat, NNS Centenary will use it for target practice.

4. Every year is a Project Biro reality for Nigeria, this year 2015 alone, another stealth OPV, MPV, many IPVs, tug boats etc coming
.

Henry120:


Fact: South-African Navy has no modern OPVs. Come back to us when you have one.

They even have no OPV in reality, their 58m Warrior strike crafts are IPV or at best MPV, Helmod Heitman said 60m is an IPV for SAN.

Nigeria has all those 58m gun boats, we call them MPV....NNS Siri and co
.

agaugust:


1. Nope, not in one day, you commissioned 4 frigates and 3 subs over a period of about 5 years, but Nigeria commissioned 4 ships in one day.

2. You have crew to fully man only one frigate and one submarine, the rest are short of qualified sailors to man all stations on board ship

3. Warrior class missiles have been deleted years ago, it's now a freaking gunboat, NNS Centenary will use it for target practice.

4. Every year is a Project Biro reality for Nigeria, this year 2015 alone, another stealth OPV, MPV, many IPVs, tug boats etc coming
.

1. HAHAHAHAHA!! hiding behind semantics! You think the introduction of 3 hunks of rotten iron and a Chinese OPV that has been stripped to the bare bones impress us? We introduced 4 Frigates and 3 subs!! More major vessels than you!

2. 2 Frigates combat ready, one used for training one in re-fit at any one time, 1 sub combat ready, one in training on in re-fit at any one time. Proven by the fact that we had a frigate and sub operationial with the Indians while another Frigate was on patrol in Mozambique. Later the 3rd Frigate qualified a whole new crew during exercises with the Germans and another sub qualified South Africas first indigenously trained Black submarine commander (while the second sub was completeing operations with the Germans). All this was happening during overlapping periods of time!

3. No - there is still one Warrior Class with missiles fitted

4. No, since 2000 South Africa has introduced more first-hand vessels than Nigeria.

agaugust:


They even have no OPV in reality, their 58m Warrior strike crafts are IPV or at best MPV, Helmod Heitman said 60m is an IPV for SAN.

Nigeria has all those 58m gun boats, we call them MPV....NNS Siri and co
.

We have 4 Valour Class Frigates

And no, he said that the Warrior Class should be RE-CONFIGURED for IPV duties, this means that they are currently an OPV.... yet again your reading-comprehension fails you!

Patchesagain:


Combat suites on our frigates are neither defective nor obsolete.

Fact is that we operate 4 Modern Frigates and 3 Modern subs.

You have 4 frigates and 3 subs but can only operate one for combat at a time due to shortage of full manpower to man all on-board stations.

Combat suite of all Valour frigates are both defective and obsolete. PROVED many times before. Recap :

1. 1990s navionics

2. Shortage of anti-ship missiles, only 2 ships can fully arm

3. ZERO torpedoes, your expensive warships have ZERO torpedoes....Germany ripped you off with empty torpedo tubes.

4. 1970s main gun, the 76mm main gun was taken from scrap yard and repainted for Valour frigate, gun is not stealth, it ruins the ship's stealth capability and makes it more visible. Fools, you put a 1970s abandoned old gun on a brand new stealth ship....nation of fools
.

agaugust:


You have 4 frigates and 3 subs but can only operate one for combat at a time due to shortage of full manpower to man all on-board stations.

Combat suite of all Valour frigates are both defective and obsolete. PROVED many times before. Recap :

1. 1990s navionics

2. Shortage of anti-ship missiles, only 2 ships can fully arm

3. ZERO torpedoes, your expensive warships have ZERO torpedoes....Germany ripped you off with empty torpedo tubes.

4. 1970s main gun, the 76mm main gun was taken from scrap yard and repainted for Valour frigate, gun is not stealth, it ruins the ship's stealth capability and makes it more visible. Fools, you put a 1970s gun on a 1990s ship....nation of fools
.

1. 2 Frigates operational, a 3rd in training a 4th in Refit (proven by operational records).
1a. 1 sub operational, 1 sub used for training, 1 sub in refit (proven by operational records)

And this is us operating at our lowest force readyness, we can have them all fully operational in under a year if need be.

2. Same combat suite as the Charles De Gaulle, 5 La Fayette class Frigates and the 3 Saudi Arabian F3000-class air-defence frigates.

3. 2 ships can sink the whole Nigerian Navy - you said so yourself

4. Who says we have zero torpedoes?

5. 76mm Super Rapid, the radar cross section of the gun is not big enough to "ruin" the ships stealth capability.

By comparison your navy is composed of a Frigate with no qualified crew that has not put to sea in allmost 7 years, a couple 60 year old Cutters that the Americans scrapped and 2 Chinese Corvettes that have been stripped to the bone and have no conventional war-fighting capabilities.

Patchesagain:


FACT: Nigeria has no operational frigates
FACT: Nigeria has no modern Frigates
FACT: Nigeria has no modern warships at all
FACT: Nigeria has no submarines
FACT: Nigeria has no Maritime Supply Vessel

Come back to us when you have a Navy

FACT: South Africa can only operate one frigates at a time
FACT: South Africa has no modern OPV, MPV, IPV
FACT: South Africa has no modern maritime security ships at all
FACT: South Africa has no stealth OPV
FACT: South Africa has no stealth Catamaran and no high speed ocean interceptor

Come back to us when you have a balanced Navy
.

Patchesagain:
Nigerians brag about their rust fleet

South African navy has rusted warrior class crafts, rusted supply ship, and rusted donated German minesweepers....rust fleet
.

andrewza:


1991 not 1996. Any case there where several apartheid projects that took place. 1 led to the construction of 2 corvettes that due to arms embargoes we never got. They where sold to Argentina.

The reason the projects take so long in SA is that they not rushed in to. Many of the early years of a project it is just to see if there is even a need for it there are countless projects in the SANDF. Many unfunded and some never ending. What changed for project biro is it one got a budget and 2 it is now in finale stages. Companies have been told to submit there opstions.

You see unlike Nigeria we don't rush head long in and just buy stuff. We first come up with a set of requirements then we act.


And 1991 was when we decided we going to need to replace the strike craft. That's all. A few years ago they decided we going to need to replace the Oryx. They will only start 2020 to begin setting up the requirements.

Nigerian navy does not rush anything, the plans for 2010 to 2018 had been drafted and submitted years ago, even defecneweb published it
.