well you did not answer the question i asked .so i will assume it is inconvenient. to the best of my knowledge.Etche people accept that they are Igbo.
Etche are NOT Ikwerre

aribisala0:

well you did not answer the question i asked .so i will assume it is inconvenient. to the best of my knowledge.Etche people accept that they are Igbo.
Etche are NOT Ikwerre

And you said you walked PH. ROFLMMAO!

@aribisala0. You are feeling wise ignorantly asking for proof when a lot is staring in your face.I made it clear that my mother is Ikwerre. Barrister Uche Okwukwu the ACN chairman in Rivers State is Ikwerre and Tide Newspaper is owned by Rivers State Government.A link to the Coronation of the traditional ruler of Omagwa(Eze Orji) is there where he clearly stated that they are descendants of Okpo Nwagidi. The Willinks report is there where all the Ikwerre Chiefs signed that they were Igbos. The argument between Gowon and the Riverine people is there. I wonder which other evidence you need.

aribisala0:

to the best of my knowledge.Etche people accept that they are Igbo.
Etche are NOT Ikwerre

You have a serious problem. Ikwerre people are descended from Etche. Okpo was an overseer of Amadioha or also known as Ihuoha at Ozuzu in Etche before moving down to Elele and Isiokpo. You should free your mind to learn and not impose your views.

abagworo please don't call me out again . study my threads . i do not have time for personal remarks . but if they get to that level i am not wanting
we have two choices we discuss issues without referencing each other or we abuse each other. my wisdom or feelings etc are irrelevant.
so if i say something and you disagree by all means refute it.
i am not prepared to talk about you

abagworo  please don't call me out again . if you read what i said all along. I said i do not know the truth or otherwise about any of these historical claims.
I HAVE NOT MADE ANY CLAIM about the origins of Ikwerre.

study my threads . i do not have time for personal remarks . but if they get to that level i am not wanting
we have two choices we discuss issues without referencing each other or we abuse each other. my wisdom or feelings etc are irrelevant.
so if i say something and you disagree by all means refute it.
i am not prepared to talk about you
americans are descended from british SO WHAT
does that make them British
many South Americans are Spanish Descendants SO WHAT?
your claim about Willinks is UNTRUE. i.e ALL Ikwerre chiefs signed that they were Igbo
YOU MADE THE CLAIM
PROVE IT
Willinks is the same person who said 98 % of the Eastern Region were IGBO
I think when one hears how that idea worked in the Politics of the Eastern Region one understands the resistance of minorities to having their identities obliterated

Abagworo:

@aribisala0. You are[b] feeling wise ignorantly[/b] asking for proof when a lot is staring in your face.I made it clear that my mother is Ikwerre. Barrister Uche Okwukwu the ACN chairman in Rivers State is Ikwerre and Tide Newspaper is owned by Rivers State Government.A link to the Coronation of the traditional ruler of Omagwa(Eze Orji) is there where he clearly stated that they are descendants of Okpo Nwagidi. The Willinks report is there where all the Ikwerre

http://independentmonitorng.com/index1.html

Omagwa came from the lineage of Okpo Wagidi and
Agwa was the last son of the family.
The secretary disclosed that Isiokpo, Elele,
Omuanwa, Ibaa and others are of the same
lineage


http://www.thetidenewsonline.com/?p=28944

Yes, my name is Uchechukwu Okwukwu. I am an Igbo
man. I have said it in different fora, the Willink
report is available, the Ph’D work of Late Chief
Aguma in University of Ibadan 1977 is available,
other reports are also available. There is a
fundamental difference between a nation and a tribe.
A tribe speaks a dialect, a Nation speaks a language.
Some Ikwerre people agreed that they are from Igbo,
some say they are from Benin heritage. Scientifically,
there are parameters we use to determine things, the
sociological, spiritual, geographical and historical. If
you say you are from Benin, come with your proof
and show us how you came from Benin. There is no
common thing that trace Ikwerre lineage to
Benin. There is no single common Edo
language in the Ikwerre land. None. So, those
who, in falsification of languages, say other wise,
should come forward with their proof.
In a study carried out by the Niger Delta group in
1976, under the Niger Delta spirit, edited by Prof
Alagoa, the Ikwerre was clearly pointed out as Igbos.
See, to lose a war is bad-the post-war Nigeria saw the
two groups, the Igbos and Niger Delta as conquered
people and the victorious North and the West clearly,
unequal partners in a new relationship that
eventually emerged and in that unequal relationship,
like the law of Osmosis, weaker solution is naturally
drawn by the stronger solution. What happened was
that if you said then, you’re an Igbo, you are hated
because you’re a Biafran you committed a crime,
your master is in Cote d’Ivoire you raised up arms
against the Federal Government, forgetting that
according to Gabriel Onyeke’s Commission of
enquiry 30,000 Easterners were massacred. So
everybody said I am not Igbo purely as a survival
syndrome. Why would you say you are Igbo, when
you were not wanted? Of course, my name is Uche
Okwukwu, so you can ask me my name and I will say’
am not Igbo, because if I say I was Igbo, I will be
punished, but you would agree with me in this state
that the great and mighty of Ikwerre land agreed that
they were all Igbos.



, in Port Harcourt in the last days
before the federal
troops took it over, many. , renounced
> their relationship with the Ibos, even
the most tenous ones. Whole
village had changed their names, , to
speak of individuals who
now took names as un-Ibo as they could
find. They now went about
parading the way they had been
oppressed by the Ibos, and wanting
nothing to do with Ibos forever, "
>
> (Omotoso K. (1988): Just Before
Dawn. Ibadan: Spectrum.
p313
>

http://independentmonitorng.com/index1.html
He said every effort made for the creation of Rivers
State was rebuffed by General Yakubu Gowon, the
then Head of State on the ground that Rivers State
was covered with waters and that there was nowhere
to site the capital since Port Harcourt belongs to the
Ibos. He said it was at that point that Eze Oriji stood
up and said that he was from Ikwerre and that Port
Harcourt belongs to Ikwerre and that Ikwerres are not
Ibos. He then pleaded that the capital of the new
state be sited in Port Harcourt. He said it was on that
assurance that Rivers State was created with Port
Harcourt as capital city in 1967 by General Yakubu
Gowon.
As a result of his efforts towards the creation of
Rivers State and his dislike of the Ibos over the
marginalization of Ikwerre people,


The links above tells the whole story.Especially the Omotoso story. You can compare that with Uche Okwukwu's and understand the whole thing.

Abagworo:

@aribisala0. You are feeling wise ignorantly asking for proof when a lot is staring in your face.I made it clear that my mother is Ikwerre. Barrister Uche Okwukwu the ACN chairman in Rivers State is Ikwerre and Tide Newspaper is owned by Rivers State Government.A link to the Coronation of the traditional ruler of Omagwa(Eze Orji) is there where he clearly stated that they are descendants of Okpo Nwagidi. The Willinks report is there where all the Ikwerre Chiefs signed that they were Igbos. The argument between Gowon and the Riverine people is there. I wonder which other evidence you need.

 
You have a serious problem. Ikwerre people are descended from Etche. Okpo was an overseer of Amadioha or also known as Ihuoha at Ozuzu in Etche before moving down to Elele and Isiokpo. You should free your mind to learn and not impose your views.

the links above tell one story NOT THE WHOLE STORY as you claim.
there are other stories.
You just CHOOSE to believe this particular one
I choose to keep an open mind since none of the stories can really be proven to the detriment of the others and what is more important is what those directly concerned CHOOSE to believe
i find it funny that when it suits you a book by omotoso (OFE MANU man) is what you rely on .
anyway i read his offering it just quotes other authors and involves no primary research guess the ethnic identity of those he quotes??

your claim was clear
ALL ikwerre chiefs
NOT one,
NOT some ,
NOT many
but ALL and that they SIGNED that they are IGBO.
so you should be able to give a number(how many chiefs) and hopefully the communities they represented and names
  IN MY BOOK ALL MEANS WITHOUT EXCEPTION
that was your claim do you believe what you have posted backs up that claim.

PLEASE ANSWER THIS SIMPLE QUESTION.


again i am not claiming anything

all i have been saying is some Ikwerre say they are and some say they are NOT .
me i don't know and i have seen no evidence from those who claim to know to change my mind.

My point is
YES SOME IKWERRE SEE THEMSELVES AS IGBO AND SOME DON'T

The Ikwerre have organized themselves in a forum called the Ikwerre development association
and commissioned the following work


http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf

STUDIES IN IKWERRE HISTORY AND CULTURE
EDITED BY
OTONTI NDUKA

AND GRACIOUSLY BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION BY


yes you guessed right

ABAGWORO HIMSELF
Here are some excerpts
[b]Secondly and crucially. from time immemorial and despite the attempted
pandering to the vicissitudes of political fortune. the Ikwerre have always
regarded themselves as a group distinct and different from their immediate
neighbours. [/b]Thus. while they refer to themselves as Iwhuroha their
neighOOurs are variously referred to as (nde) Ekpeye. Abua. Rukwo (=
Ijaw). agoni (- Eleme. agoni. etc.). Etche and. crucially. Isoma or Mgbom (-
Ibo). Interestingly. none of the other groups mentioned herein has attempted
to assimilate the Ikwerre to themselves - except. of course. the Ibo. Such selfawareness
and dogged assertion of group identity as manifested by the
Ikwerre over the centuries constitute part of the bricks with which the edifice
of national or ethnic identity is built. The strength and durability of such an
edifice is. usually. dependent on a number of factors. some of which (e.g ,
military conquest. deportation. etc.) may be beyond the control of the national
or ethnic group concerned.
Even up to the time
of the inquiries conducted by the Willink Commission in the late fifties, some
knowledgeable and articulate Ikwerre citizens were content, partly no doubt
for political reasons, to pass themselves and Ikwerre off as Ibos tout court.
Ikwerre reawakening since the end of the civil war and mounting ethnolinguistic
evidence in the last two decades have raised the question of the
existential status of the Ikwerre to a new level of relevance and one requiring
urgent and judicious

determination.


The authors here are claiming that those Ikwerres who testified that they were Igbo did so for political gain based on the dynamics of Eastern Region Politics
What does this prove ??
To me that the matter is controversial and for anyone to claim absolute knowledge or the final word in any direction is not based on reality but emotion

Everything seems to point out one sad reason "because Igbos lost a war".

again the sadness is one side to the story it was or is not universal as far at outcome is concerned. some were quite chuffed. BITTER TRUTH
the process and execution was indeed catastrophic

but often the course of history is determined by the outcome of wars
american independence war
american civil war
world wars 1 and 2
different outcome different history


probably if the outcome had been otherwise Ikwerre would now be extinct
was the Willinks Commission misled into concluding ,as it did, that Eastern Nigeria was 98% Igbo?

^^^I have read the Willinks Commission report and there was no where it said that 98% of Eastern Nigeria were Igbo. The fact is, it listed Ikwerre as Igbo and truely they are.

well I read it and it says so .
Now this means that either one of us did NOT read it properly or is lying.
NOW I REPEAT
IT SAYS SO
which is it are you mistaken or telling a bold faced lie

now we also know that this 98% claim is FALSE and as such the WILLINKS report for what it is worth lacks credibility and cannot be cited as a source to settle disputes about the accuracy of facts

Interesting thread -

Based on my experiences Ikwerres who tend to hang out a lot with Igbos say they are Igbos, and those who have affinities for other tribes say they aren't.

I think it's best to take individuals as they come and see them for what they identify themselves with.

Chyz*:

Thanks Negro NTNS. You cease to put your nose in Igbo business/affairs. Go worry and uplift your people and stop worry about whats going on in our house.

Chyz,i have noticed the similarity between them,he is Negro nts.

Mbatuku was right,the ikwerre-igbo issue is between ikwerre and other igbos,i don't think we should be arguing with a yoruba man,he just has no stake in the issue. Btw, where is igbo boy and munuchi?

finally run out of sensible ideas
on how to resuscitate a desperate and moribund argument
so what to do
start throwing stones
typically predictable

no answers to the REAL issue

http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf


http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf


http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf

Igbo boy is not Ikwere.

aribisala0:






http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf


http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf
http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf


http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%20Volume%20One.pdf

Just like I posted a link of a traditional ruler of Omagwa making it clear that they are descended from Okpo Wagidi, could you please post a link where any Ikwerre traditional ruler said otherwise. Like I told you the Eze Igwe Oguta, "Eze Ogba" and Nze Obi Egbema can tell you that they migrated from old Benin kingdom even though from my knowledge it happens to be Aboh and Ukwuani. They have central ruler quite unlike the other Igbos including Ikwerre whose Ezeship was started by colonial masters.

Every Igbo group viewed themselves different from their next door Igbo group. The Ikwerre sees themselves different from Isoma,Oratta,Etche and Egbema.Oratta sees themselves as different from Ezinihitte,Isoma,Etche and Ikwerre. Ngwa sees themselves as different from Ohuhu,Ndoki,Asa and Etche. Ika see themselves as different from Enuani and Ukwuani.It goes on that way round almost all corners of Igboland.Ezza,Izzi,Mgbo,Ehugbo,Ikwo all see themselves differently. We all existed as distinct group within a cluster known as Igbo country.

If you observe, I have written it earlier that everyone has right to choose not to even be his fathers son but it is needless manufacturing ridiculous lies to achieve that. You can actually say

1)"we have considered the economic and political gains of breaking away from the Igbo union".

2) "other tribes will accept us more if we say we are not Igbos"

3)"since we have been part of the Igbo union, Igbos from other States have been emerging Mayor of Port Harcourt but now that we have withdrawn only Ikwerres rule Port Harcourt"

4)"If we say we are not part of them, the federal troops will stop killing our people"

5)"Whatever.I just don't want to be part of a bigger group.I want to be on my own".

These are the fundamental reasons for the proliferation of ethnic groups from Igboland.If someone gives the above reason, then he is 100% correct and his rights will be respected.

However if someone comes forth to say My grand father married a Benin woman,therefore I'm not Igbo.My dialect is different from Isu and etche.We have some names peculiar to only Ikwerre. It sounds childish because it is the same across the entire Igboland.

Abagworo:


Just like I posted a link of a traditional ruler of Omagwa making it clear that they are descended from Okpo Wagidi, could you please post a link where any Ikwerre traditional ruler said otherwise. Like I told you the Eze Igwe Oguta, "Eze Ogba" and Nze Obi Egbema can tell you that they migrated from old Benin kingdom even though from my knowledge it happens to be Aboh and Ukwuani. They have central ruler quite unlike the other Igbos including Ikwerre whose Ezeship was started by colonial masters.

Every Igbo group viewed themselves different from their next door Igbo group. The Ikwerre sees themselves different from Isoma,Oratta,Etche and Egbema.Oratta sees themselves as different from Ezinihitte,Isoma,Etche and Ikwerre. Ngwa sees themselves as different from Ohuhu,Ndoki,Asa and Etche. Ika see themselves as different from Enuani and Ukwuani.It goes on that way round almost all corners of Igboland.Ezza,Izzi,Mgbo,Ehugbo,Ikwo all see themselves differently. We all existed as distinct group within a cluster known as Igbo country.

If you observe, I have written it earlier that everyone has right to choose not to even be his fathers son but it is needless manufacturing ridiculous lies to achieve that. You can actually say

1)"we have considered the economic and political gains of breaking away from the Igbo union".

2) "other tribes will accept us more if we say we are not Igbos"

3)"since we have been part of the Igbo union, Igbos from other States have been emerging Mayor of Port Harcourt but now that we have withdrawn only Ikwerres rule Port Harcourt"

4)"If we say we are not part of them, the federal troops will stop killing our people"

5)"Whatever.I just don't want to be part of a bigger group.I want to be on my own".

These are the fundamental reasons for the proliferation of ethnic groups from Igboland.If someone gives the above reason, then he is 100% correct and his rights will be respected.

However if someone comes forth to say My grand father married a Benin woman,therefore I'm not Igbo.My dialect is different from Isu and etche.We have some names peculiar to only Ikwerre. It sounds childish because it is the same across the entire Igboland.

Word.

Some Ikwerre people are just making themselves controversial out of nothing.

There's a difference between I dont want to be Igbo and I'm not Igbo. If the former had been clearly defined, this would have been a non-issue.

Abagworo:


Just like I posted a link of a traditional ruler of Omagwa making it clear that they are descended from Okpo Wagidi, could you please post a link where any Ikwerre traditional ruler said otherwise. Like I told you the Eze Igwe Oguta, "Eze Ogba" and Nze Obi Egbema can tell you that they migrated from old Benin kingdom even though from my knowledge it happens to be Aboh and Ukwuani. They have central ruler quite unlike the other Igbos including Ikwerre whose Ezeship was started by colonial masters.

Every Igbo group viewed themselves different from their next door Igbo group. The Ikwerre sees themselves different from Isoma,Oratta,Etche and Egbema.Oratta sees themselves as different from Ezinihitte,Isoma,Etche and Ikwerre. Ngwa sees themselves as different from Ohuhu,Ndoki,Asa and Etche. Ika see themselves as different from Enuani and Ukwuani.It goes on that way round almost all corners of Igboland.Ezza,Izzi,Mgbo,Ehugbo,Ikwo all see themselves differently. We all existed as distinct group within a cluster known as Igbo country.

If you observe, I have written it earlier that everyone has right to choose not to even be his fathers son but it is needless manufacturing ridiculous lies to achieve that. You can actually say

1)"we have considered the economic and political gains of breaking away from the Igbo union".

2) "other tribes will accept us more if we say we are not Igbos"

3)"since we have been part of the Igbo union, Igbos from other States have been emerging Mayor of Port Harcourt but now that we have withdrawn only Ikwerres rule Port Harcourt"

4)"If we say we are not part of them, the federal troops will stop killing our people"

5)"Whatever.I just don't want to be part of a bigger group.I want to be on my own".

These are the fundamental reasons for the proliferation of ethnic groups from Igboland.If someone gives the above reason, then he is 100% correct and his rights will be respected.

However if someone comes forth to say My grand father married a Benin woman,therefore I'm not Igbo.My dialect is different from Isu and etche.We have some names peculiar to only Ikwerre. It sounds childish because it is the same across the entire Igboland.

Ei incumbit probatio qui affirmat, non qui
negat ; precipitate per rerum naturam factum
negantis probatio nulla sit.

He must prove a
thing who says it, not he who denies it, since by the
nature of things he who denies a fact cannot
produce any proof ; i.e., the proof lies upon him
who affirms, and not upon him who denies.

YOU ARE CALLING THE WRONG MAN
HOW MANY TIMES MUST I REPEAT IT.
IT IS NOT ME SAYING iKWERRE ARE  NOT IGBO

Go and argue with Professor Otonti Nduka and Elechi Amadi and many other Ikwerre who say they are not Igbo.
Frankly Integrity and  credibility are important in debate
You  claim that you supplied a "link of a traditional ruler of Omagwa making it clear that they are descended from Okpo Wagidi"
these are the links you provided
http://independentmonitorng.com/index1.html
http://www.thetidenewsonline.com/?p=28944
let others read and judge
you claimed ALL IKWERRE CHIEFS signed at the Willinks Commission to say they are IGBO
your silence in response to my request for proof is deafening
you claimed I said Oyigbo is Ikwerre . I challenged you and  you don't have the decency to retract this
Instead of backing up your  assertions you try to confuse people by introducing more nebulous claims
i don't know how many times you want me to say it
where ikwerre people came from is not a subject i am competent to pronounce on and i have not done so here.
i am aware that there are many stories. where they came from is irrelevant to the debate here
what is relevant is where they are and where they want to go .
all peoples
Israelites,Americans,Argentinians,Pakistanis,Australians descend from somewhere but they have the right to choose their own way
It is clear that you will not read my posts so as far as i am concerned you are wasting my time by misrepresenting my position even though i have made it clear umpteen times

aribisala0:

i will state it again in Clearer terms;
If there is DNA and archaelogical evidence to prove that ALL Iwuruohas(as they like to be called) are descendant of A from the towm of Mgbidi in the heart of IGBOLAND and they say they are not igbo THEN THEY ARE NOT.
My position does not go beyond that

Why are Yorubas so obsessed with Igbo affairs? SMH, ndi-igbo this is why Igbo land is divided, you people fight with mis-informed non-Igbo all the time.  They intend to draw a wedge between your brothers in south-south and eastern Nigerian and you let them. No wonder, Eastern Nigerians have this sadden ability to insult their brothers in south-south with ease. This conversation should have ended after agbaworro, igbo_boy, etc. came and informed you all how they or their family members whom happen to be from that region and many more of their people view themselves, everybody else, unless another ikwerre,  shouldn't have mattered. Mscheww.

ChinenyeN:

Igbo boy is not Ikwere.

He is on his maternal side.

Chyz*:

And you said you walked PH. ROFLMMAO!

I doubt his actually been to to PH.  What sort of statement was that?  ROFLMFAO

Umu Iwherohna, o du ehi a g'imekata, a whu okhe o ha unu l'aka. Ngwam akasola.

One_Naira:

Why are Yorubas so obsessed with Igbo affairs? SMH, ndi-igbo this is why Igbo land is divided, you people fight with mis-informed non-Igbo all the time.  They intend to draw a wedge between your brothers in south-south and eastern Nigerian and you let them. No wonder, Eastern Nigerians have this sadden ability to insult their brothers in south-south with ease. This conversation should have ended after agbaworro, igbo_boy, etc. came and informed you all how they or their family members whom happen to be from that region and many more of their people view themselves, everybody else, unless another ikwerre,  shouldn't have mattered. Mscheww.

Concerning the highlighted part of your comment, I'll say no SE'nr will want to insult a SS Igbo. Pls take that out of your mind.

Igbo bu Igbo.

mbatuku2:

Concerning the highlighted part of your comment, I'll say no SE'nr will want to insult a SS Igbo. Pls take that out of your mind.
Igbo bu Igbo.

Quote by aribasala0

They have chosen to have THEIR
OWN translation of the Bible e.g.
rejecting external impositions by
irredentists

An Ikwerre Bible, if it exists, will still be an Igbo Bible.

mbatuku2:

An Ikwerre Bible, if it exists, will still be an Igbo Bible.

Only as far as linguistics is concerned.

well,maybe but  that will depend on the resolution of the  fundamental issue of this debate. One will derive,necessarily  from the other.
It is important to query why the need/agitation  for it arose in the first instance. I am not aware of a similar occurence elsewhere

ChinenyeN:

Only as far as linguistics is concerned.

The Izzi people in Ebonyi state have translated the new testament into their dialect, yet no linguist is saying that it is not Igbo. No harm if Ikwerre translates the bible into Ikwerre.

mbatuku2:

Quote by aribasala0

An Ikwerre Bible, if it exists, will still be an Igbo Bible.

Correct, just as the the new testament translated to Izzi is still Igbo.

Andre Uweh:

The Izzi people in Ebonyi state have translated the new testament into their dialect, yet no linguist is saying that it is not Igbo. No harm if Ikwerre translates the bible into Ikwerre.

That's what I'm saying. No one can/will linguistically dispute that it is an Igbo Bible.