^^^

And you cannot forget the Aro-Igbo connection as well, because we have been dealing with the various Igbo clans that have been inhabiting the region for centuries.

What do you mean? Aro-Ikwere and Iguocha are not the same thing. You people don't have a hand in the Iguocha oral traditions. Aro-Ikwere, Okonko, Ibini Ukpabi oracular trade, yes, but not Iguocha.

ChinenyeN:

Aribisala, yes, Iguocha is the traditional name of the frontier from which P.H. grew from. Oral traditions of the Ngwa and Ikwere, in particular, as well as the Etche, Asa, Ndoki, and also quite possibly Uratta attest to this, as does early colonial documentation.

you may be right on the other hand you could be wrong .
please what do you mean by frontier? is that a town or village?
my experience of all these villages; rumueme,rumuadaolu, rumuepirikom,rumuola,rumuahia and several others in port harcourt is that they are quite ancient and developed independently of port harcourt.
so can you give a timeline or chronology of this growth.
i will give you an example that is quite pertinent there is a part of ikeja called alausa which depending on how you pronounce it could mean (of the hausa).  this led at one point to hausa people claiming that they own the area. this is considered implausible because it is lagos but we might have a different scenario if it was a part of yoruba land much closer to the north. the point then is assertions such as these are too controversial to be accepted without proof. there are thousands of court cases in nigeria on land disputes based on oral tradition. the other thing of course is the actual meaning of that name which references the white man. please help me here how can we rely on documentation of the white man that says the area was named after him. in fact the word means something similar to oke oyinbo in yoruba (THE hill or elevation of the white man) this is used to name so many districts across yorubaland where the white man sited an office or other structure just like saying sabon gari. my point is there is not enough evidence  to say there is no other explanation
finally i asked for evidence and would appreciate some evidence. as someone who now teaches medical students i am expected to talk with evidence not just folklore.
this is a subject which i would like to discuss with some confidence. surely you are not suggesting i go about saying chinenye said so. what do i do when i meet someone who says;  oral traditions say the exact opposite of what you are saying.

the fact that you believe a thing does not make it true. mywife believes that i am the most handsome man in the world. i have to be careful what i believe

I think I see what's going on here. No, Iguocha is not the name of any settlement, if that's what you're asking. Rather, it's the name of the area/shoreline/frontier that the port was established and built upon. The name of the town in question though, that P.H. was built from is Diobu. Now, I'm not asking you to take my word for it, as an Ngwa. I'm just conveying to you the knowledge passed down to me by my elders, but you should feel very free to go digging for information and confirmation of the things I have said.

ChinenyeN:

I think I see what's going on here. No, Iguocha is not the name of any settlement, if that's what you're asking. Rather, it's the name of the area/shoreline/frontier that the port was established and built upon. The name of the town in question though, that P.H. was built from is Diobu. Now, I'm not asking you to take my word for it, as an Ngwa. I'm just conveying to you the knowledge passed down to me by my elders, but you should feel very free to go digging for information and confirmation of the things I have said.

thank you for your response. clearly you are a man who thinks before he talks. i appreciate that. best wishes

No problem.

For those interested,the Ikwerres have now done a thorough research and a conclusion has been reached.

www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?oe=UTF-8&channel=browser&hl=en&q=cache:BU2rLugxBRIJ:www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com/Documents/History%2520Volume%2520One.pdf

This was not written by a Southeasterner or White man or Yoruba.It is from the horses mouth.

ARE YOU THEIR MINISTER OF INFORMATION.
I am sure they can speak for themselves.
let them inform nigerians that they want to delete ikwerre as one of the recognized ethnic groups

by the way that book is 18 years old and is not new.

more importantly the book does NOT say what you claim it does.

if you read the book you would NEVER have posted the link. go and read it

Elechi Amadi was one of the major contributors of this book and his views are widely known.

as a neutral person who lived in PH for a long time i see  a lot of similarities with igbos and ikwerre  but what is important is how do the ikwerres wish to be known NOT how others wish to know them.

there are so many similarities between itsekiri and yorubas but itsekiris wish to be known as itsekiris .
that is their prerogative

most of my ikwerre friend tell me they wish to be known as ikwerre and this is why they have sought to be so recognized by the nigerian state.


that is the current state of affairs.

@aribisala0.I wonder what correlates my link with the answer you just gave.I gave a link for everyone to read and judge by themselves and not what people say.The book was written in a contribution made by prominent Ikwerre statesmen and not Abagworo.Again are you aware of my ethnic background?Elechi Amadi is someone very very close to me.I won't add more to that.


As a stranger in PH,you seem to misunderstand an Igbo culture which sees the next clan as different.It is not peculiar to PH alone.People in PH call other Igbos Isoma,People in Owerri call other Igbos Isoma,People in Mbaise call other Igbos Isoma,People in Aba call other Igbos Ohnuhnu,People in Onitsha call other Igbos OnyIgbo.It is wide spread across Igboland.

Again Itsekiri is not Yoruba and has never been.They do not speak the same language and even the w White men noticed from the very first day they set foot on Nigerian soil.

Here's another link from an article written by an Ikwerre which might interest you.

http://www.thenigeriandaily.com/2011/07/16/settlement-pattern-amongst-the-ikwerre-of-rivers-state/

aribisala0:

ARE YOU THEIR MINISTER OF INFORMATION.
I am sure they can speak for themselves.
let them inform nigerians that they want to delete ikwerre as one of the recognized ethnic groups

by the way that book is 18 years old and is not new.

more importantly the book does NOT say what you claim it does.

if you read the book you would NEVER have posted the link. go and read it

Elechi Amadi was one of the major contributors of this book and his views are widely known.

as a neutral person who lived in PH for a long time i see a lot of similarities with igbos and ikwerre but what is important is how do the ikwerres wish to be known NOT how others wish to know them.

there are so many similarities between itsekiri and yorubas but itsekiris wish to be known as itsekiris .
that is their prerogative

most of my ikwerre friend tell me they wish to be known as ikwerre and this is why they have sought to be so recognized by the nigerian state.


that is the current state of affairs.

Boy, the crap you wrote here is very laughable.
Why the Itsekiri/Yoruba example instead of Igbo/Idoma example?. You and your likes that tend to separate Igbo groups from one another will not do it in the case of Ijebu/Yoruba relationship. All your years in Igweocha (P.H) is a waste.

maybe i have written crap but that is an ad hominem argument.

i responded to the previous poster who cited a book commissioned by the ikwerre development association

this is their website

http://www.ikwerredevelopmentassociation.com

their chairman is Elechi Amadi who clearly does NOT want to be Igbo

The ikwerre development association is very clear in seeking to be IKWERRE and not anything else

rather than sentiments deal with issues and read carefully what i  wrote

i have NOT argued that Ikwerres are  NOT IGBO but the link put forward by the last poster argues just that and he tries to make out the opposite.

if you are able let us deal with issues or we can do this

you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap
you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap you wrote crap NO it is you that is writing crap

till next year

you don't have a monopoly on saying i am writing crap.

deal with issues.

my point is simple in order to make the point that ikwerres are igbo one needs to look for other sources than the Ikwerre development association since they take the opposite position.

now that is a lot of crap for you to digest

even the ikwerres do not use that word IGWEOCHA. i NEVER heard that word in the 20 years i lived in PH. ikwerres tend to have Ezes so can you identify any EZE igweocha

for your info the ikwerre parts(Not all PH is ikwerre) are Obio,Rebisi,Apara,Evo Ogunabali ,Diobu.

Iguocha NOT igweocha is a controversial story which has little to do with what is known as PH

there is no community known as iguocha but some igbo writers have stated that this is the name of some white reefs by the river.

at any rate the riverside areas of PH are NOT Ikwerre but owned by Okrika and Kalabari communities
.

@abagworo i regret that you do not have the courage of your own conviction and need the "WHITE MAN'S" validation.
i am not really that interested in white men.  your attempt to widen the scope to language and all that will lead no where

you are right itsekiri is not yoruba.
giving examples of words that are similar in different languages is futile. there are THOUSANDS of similar words in itsekiri and yoruba and there is considerable intelligibilty of ijebu/itsekiri.
still they are different languages .

ditto for igbo and ikwerre which is often classified as IGBOID.

ditto for spanish/portuguese/italian/french

ditto for geman/dutch

now how does your link define IGBOID

i will tell you

"a cluster of languages(NOTE LANGUAGES IN PLURAL) of which igbo is the biggest.


in short they are distinct and different
your link does include a study of LECTS so i suggest you read it i don't believe you have

aribisala0:

even the ikwerres do not use that word IGWEOCHA. i NEVER heard that word in the 20 years i lived in PH. ikwerres tend to have Ezes so can you identify any EZE igweocha

for your info the ikwerre parts(Not all PH is ikwerre) are Obio,Rebisi,Apara,Evo Ogunabali ,Diobu.

Iguocha NOT igweocha is a controversial story which has little to do with what is known as PH

there is no community known as iguocha but some igbo writers have stated that this is the name of some white reefs by the river.

at any rate the riverside areas of PH are NOT Ikwerre but owned by Okrika and Kalabari communities
.

Guy I am in a much better position to tell you because I've got some Ikwerre blood.Iguocha,Igwuocha,Ugwuochan all refer to PH depending on the part of Ikwerre the speaker is from.Port Harcourt is basically 90% Ikwerre except for the sand fills which were illegally occupied by a mix of Igbo,Calabar and Okrika people who later on give the place a name and call it Okrikaland claiming Okrika citizenship.Those Issues will be settled soonest as Government will reclaim the sandfills.Let an Okrikaman try to lead Port Harcourt and they will know what's up.

Owing to my position,I cannot force ethnicity down the throat of anyone.Ethnicity is a thing of choice.If you look very well I only said that people should read the link and analys themselves.

Thirdly,the truth is not even in that book but is known by the Priests and cannot be revealed to the ordinary people.I am a descendant of a Priest.One aspect of the truth is that the founders of Ikwerre were Aro men who first established a shrine at Ozuzu known as Amadioha.They were the custodians of the shrine of the Igbo god of thunder.The early Ikwerre were seen as demi-gods by the Isuama neighbours but lost that status as another shrine was built at Umunoha which was more accessible to the populated Isuama.

Abagworo:

[b]
Guy I am in a much better position to tell you because I've got some Ikwerre blood.[/b]Iguocha,Igwuocha,Ugwuochan all refer to PH depending on the part of Ikwerre the speaker is from.Port Harcourt is basically 90% Ikwerre except for the sand fills which were illegally occupied by a mix of Igbo,Calabar and Okrika people who later on give the place a name and call it Okrikaland claiming Okrika citizenship.Those Issues will be settled soonest as Government will reclaim the sandfills.Let an Okrikaman try to lead Port Harcourt and they will know what's up.

Owing to my position,I cannot force ethnicity down the throat of anyone.Ethnicity is a thing of choice.If you look very well I only said that people should read the link and analys themselves.

Thirdly,the truth is not even in that book but is known by the Priests and cannot be revealed to the ordinary people.I am a descendant of a Priest.One aspect of the truth is that the founders of Ikwerre were Aro men who first established a shrine at Ozuzu known as Amadioha.They were the custodians of the shrine of the Igbo god of thunder.The early Ikwerre were seen as demi-gods by the Isuama neighbours but lost that status as another shrine was built at Umunoha which was more accessible to the populated Isuama.

if you think about it you will realise that ikwerre blood is irrelevant since there is not 100% consensus on the issue. it is like saying barak obama knows more about  kenya because he has kenyan blood. please be logical and forget sentiments. i know PH as well as many unless you are telling me you have a Ph.d on PH
when you say 90 % i really do not know the basis for this there is a part of port harcourt that every one refers to as TOWN, in addition to abuloma, borokiri,abonema wharf creek road etc these are not Ikwerre  even the Port is not Ikwerre land so leave that thing.

regarding all that arcane priest mularkey i think you are being silly and i am done with you. i really thought you had something to offer. there is no such thing as founders of IKWERRE as there are several ikwerre settlement who trace their history separately some to benin and others elsewhere
BS

aribisala0:

even the ikwerres do not use that word IGWEOCHA. i NEVER heard that word in the 20 years i lived in PH. ikwerres tend to have Ezes so can you identify any EZE igweocha

for your info the ikwerre parts(Not all PH is ikwerre) are Obio,Rebisi,Apara,Evo Ogunabali ,Diobu.

Iguocha NOT igweocha is a controversial story which has little to do with what is known as PH

there is no community known as iguocha but some igbo writers have stated that this is the name of some white reefs by the river.

at any rate the riverside areas of PH are NOT Ikwerre but owned by Okrika and Kalabari communities
.

You'll never hear Igwe Ocha because it's not the name of any village or clan. It was used by mostly Ohafia migrant railway workers from Iguocha (Ugwu ocha in standard Igbo). The village group Port Harcourt grew out of (and then absorbed more Ikwerre and then Okrika lands) is Diobu, which is Ikwerre. Ugwu ocha is not controversial, are you saying this because it 'sounds' Igbo? If it's controversial then it's only controversial in the sense that someone is trying to rewrite their own history, as in cutting off the nose to . . . blah blah.

The "Igbo writers" who you suggest are tinkering with PH's history to support their claims must also include Frederick Lugard who in the 191-something explicitly referred to the port (not yet Port Harcourt) as "Iguocha" and "Diobu" in his letter to the Harcourt guy himself announcing his intention to use his name for the port of "Diobu". Look for the letter. Last time I checked there were no top Igbo officials in the British administration of Nigeria in the 1910s.

On the note of "riverside ares of PH", you do know there are rivers winding through and around Port Harcourt from all sides? The New Kalabar river that you're probably specifically referring to (the route to the wharf) winds westward and then northwards straight into Igbo lands. If you're saying the wharf is not Igboland then you may be correct (although I don't know the exact boundaries) but to say all the rivers in Port Harcourt are confined to Okrika areas is incorrect.

On the wider not: Ikwerre are Igbo today and tomorrow and will always be looked as Igbo by the Igbo AND other Nigerians, even by the government of Nigeria. No amount of disassociating is going to make people stop regarding them as Igbo, I'm sure even yourself deep-down see them as Igbo. The rest of Nigeria does not respect Igbo people in general and generally believe they 'don't have a culture', they'll respect any Igbo less with a surname like Amadi disclaiming Igbo. In short the whole argument is pointless, some Ikwerre people are denying that they are Igbo and that's the conclusion.

aribisala0:

if you think about it you will realise that ikwerre blood is irrelevant since there is not 100% consensus on the issue. it is like saying barak obama knows more about  kenya because he has kenyan blood. please be logical and forget sentiments. i know PH as well as many unless you are telling me you have a Ph.d on PH
when you say 90 % i really do not know the basis for this there is a part of port harcourt that every one refers to as TOWN, in addition to abuloma, borokiri,abonema wharf creek road etc these are not Ikwerre  even the Port is not Ikwerre land so leave that thing.

regarding all that arcane priest mularkey i think you are being silly and i am done with you. i really thought you had something to offer. there is no such thing as founders of IKWERRE as there are several ikwerre settlement who trace there history separately some to benin and others elsewhere
BS

Guy if you are an Okrika man claim it and stop hiding.Abuloma and Borokiri are not Ikwerre but Abonema wharf is a mix of Ikwerre and some Kalabari and that is barely at the mouth of the river proper.Town is Ikwerreland but was politicized because it was given to White men and Okrika lacks land.

There is a founder of Ikwerre who was later joined by other people but none came from Benin.As someone that knows Ikwerre more than an Ikwerre man can you tell me why Ikwerre is also called "Ihuruoha"?2ndly which secret do Ikwerres share that not even Etche knows?You can post the answer in my box.

ezeagu:

You'll never hear Igwe Ocha because it's not the name of any village or clan. It was used by mostly Ohafia migrant railway workers from Iguocha (Ugwu ocha in standard Igbo). The village group Port Harcourt grew out of (and then absorbed more Ikwerre and then Okrika lands) is Diobu, which is Ikwerre. Ugwu ocha is not controversial, are you saying this because it 'sounds' Igbo? If it's controversial then it's only controversial in the sense that someone is trying to rewrite their own history, as in cutting off the nose to . . . blah blah.

The "Igbo writers" who you suggest are tinkering with PH's history to support their claims must also include Frederick Lugard who in the 191-something explicitly referred to the port (not yet Port Harcourt) as "Iguocha" and "Diobu" [b]in his letter to the Harcourt g[/b]uy himself announcing his intention to use his name for the port of "Diobu". Look for the letter. Last time I checked there were no top Igbo officials in the British administration of Nigeria in the 1910s.

On the note of "riverside ares of PH", you do know there are rivers winding through and around Port Harcourt from all sides? The New Kalabar river that you're probably specifically referring to (the route to the wharf) winds westward and then northwards straight into Igbo lands. If you're saying the wharf is not Igboland then you may be correct (although I don't know the exact boundaries) but to say all the rivers in Port Harcourt are confined to Okrika areas is incorrect.

On the wider not: Ikwerre are Igbo today and tomorrow and will always be looked as Igbo by the Igbo AND other Nigerians, even by the government of Nigeria. No amount of disassociating is going to make people stop regarding them as Igbo, I'm sure even yourself deep-down see them as Igbo. The rest of Nigeria does not respect Igbo people in general and generally believe they 'don't have a culture', they'll respect any Igbo less with a surname like Amadi disclaiming Igbo. In short the whole argument is pointless, some Ikwerre people are denying that they are Igbo and that's the conclusion.

guy you are funny you quote a fictitious letter and ask me to look for it. is that how your schorlarship works?

truth is there is no agreement where this igweocha or whatever it is comes from.scroll up the page and see what chinenye has to say on the subject. why should i accept any particular version.

at any rate the  port i know in PH is NOT in Diobu it is in town not far from abonema wharf . it is NOT an Ikwerre community

The Government House,State Secretariat and Civic Centre are NOT in Diobu
the old GRA Port Harcourt CLUB
the area every one knows as TOWN ; lagos street,creek road,aggrey road are NOT in Diobu
the Teaching Hospital (old general HospitaL)
Post office all built by the colonialists or Eastern Region government are NOT in diobu. these areas are the CORE of PH
at any rate lugards intention was to build a Port NOT a city.

Diobu is a small part of The Rebisi Kingdom that was dominated and still is by Igbo traders
so Rebisi is more significant than Diobu and only goes to buttress my point that most accounts of PH are NOT from natives but form others with their own agenda.

of course the unintended consequence is that so many areas e.g Choba where UNIPORT is,rumuokwuta,rumueme etc are now being called PH.
but these places were in existence before PH they did not develop from PH . they were not  uninhabited.
in a sense it it like calling Orile Lagos. it is not.

aribisala0:

guy you are funny you quote a fictitious letter and ask me to look for it. is that how your schorlarship works?

truth is there is no agreement where this igweocha or whatever it is comes from.scroll up the page and see what chinenye has to say on the subject. why should i accept any particular version.

at any rate the  port i know in PH is NOT in Diobu it is in town not far from abonema wharf . it is NOT an Ikwerre community

The Government House,State Secretariat and Civic Centre are NOT in Diobu
the old GRA Port Harcourt CLUB
the area every one knows as TOWN ; lagos street,creek road,aggrey road are NOT in Diobu
the Teaching Hospital (old general HospitaL)

Diobu is a small part of The Rebisi Kingdom that was dominated and still is by Igbo traders
so Rebisi is more significant than Diobu and only goes to buttress my point that most accounts of PH are NOT from natives but form others with their own agenda.
Post office all built by the colonialists or Eastern Region government are NOT in diobu. these areas are the CORE of PH
at any rate lugards intention was to build a Port NOT a city.
of course the unintended consequence is that so many areas e.g Choba where UNIPORT is,rumuokwuta,rumueme etc are now being called PH.
but these places were in existence before PH they did not develop from PH . they were not  uninhabited.
in a sense it it like calling Orile Lagos. it is not.

What did you say that was of any significance? At least I told you about the letter, and seeing as you don't even know it exists means you've done minimal reading on the subject you are arguing about. Port Harcourt is a 20th century city, that means it's history has been written down. That means you can go and read its actual history. I don't like when people claim there is something being disputed when it really isn't outside of their world. Iguocha was recorded by Lugard, it literally translates as bright/white hills/cliffs. Port Harcourt was intended to be port? Oh really, so why would they start a port on land? Unless they didn't and the town was a result of the port? Who is the 'king' of the Rumurebisi? How far back those this king trace his lineage? What significance to the Diobu foundation of PH those the "kingdom" make? If the "less significant" part of this land by the sea is created into a port, how is that suspicious?

ezeagu:

What did you say that was of any significance? At least I told you about the letter, and seeing as you don't even know it exists means you've done minimal reading on the subject you are arguing about. Port Harcourt is a 20th century city, that means it's history has been written down. That means you have to stop arguing and go and read actual history. I don't like when people claim there is something being disputed when it really isn't outside of their world. Iguocha was recorde by Lugard, it literally translates as bright/white hills/cliffs. Port Harcourt was intended to be port? Oh really, so why would they start a port on land? Who is the 'king' of the Rumurebisi? What significane those the "kingdom" have to make? If the "less significant" part of this land by the sea is created into a port, how is that suspicious?

is the letter the most important support for your argument.  please try and argue logically

the fact that  i dont know about a letter does not mean anything or  it can mean tapeworms are incapable of digesting complex sugars.

i am NOT here to prove my expertise so do not talk like a child. there is nothing you have said that will make me want to impress YOU

i lived in PH for 20 years and in other countries would be eligible for elective office office in that city.

if lugard wrote letters  that does not mean they contain what you  or other igbo writers claim they do

like i said there have been many articles written by igbo commentators who are clearly NOT neutral in this debate.
as  such i deal with facts in the public domain NOT those accessible only to secret society members.

There is knowing on-the-ground knowledge, and then there's arguing with facts that you know are supported. You've relied completely on what you could pick up over 20 years in PH, yet you haven't told us where the actual port started, who was consulted or how the city grew itself. How many times are you going to throw "20 years" in people's faces without anything interesting? All we're hearing is that Port Harcourt somehow didn't start from Ikwerre land, and even if it did the Ikwerre are not Igbo because some claim so. You'll have to try better than that to "impress" whichever superior intelligence you want to. All you had to do (which you probably did) was to search 'port harcourt lugard letter' and you'd find the stuff you believe does not exist, the very letter that explains how Port Harcourt got its name. Of course, that may be against your own side of your argument.

Aribisala0.What's the difference between Diobu,D-line,Ogbunabali,Runuomasi,Apara,Rebisi?

You are too tribalistic and seem more interested in anti-Igbo than the topic at hand.I will like you to come out and contest as chairman of PHALGA and you will be shown your true place.Written and published history is not quite easy to distort but can be amended to satisfy those that were unable to access the original.

The oral history is incanted during rituals by the priests and lineages are called by seniority.


To obtain information about Port Harcourt with regards to Ikwerre,you need to visit Emohua,Ogbakiri,Egbeda,Isiokpo,Elele and some other interior Ikwerre areas.Again when other Ikwerres say Diobu,they simply mean Anything from Choba to Elelenwo and Eneka/Rukpokwu to Rumuolumeni which engulfs present day PHALGA and OBALGA.

ezeagu:

There is knowing on-the-ground knowledge, and then there's arguing with facts that you know are supported. You've relied completely on what you could pick up over 20 years in PH, yet you haven't told us where the actual port started, who was consulted or how the city grew itself. How many times are you going to throw "20 years" in people's faces without anything interesting? All we're hearing is that Port Harcourt somehow didn't start from Ikwerre land, and even if it did the Ikwerre are not Igbo because some claim so. You'll have to try better than that to "impress" whichever superior intelligence you want to. All you had to do (which you probably did) was to search 'port harcourt lugard letter' and you'd find the stuff you believe does not exist, the very letter that explains how Port Harcourt got its name. Of course, that may be against your own side of your argument.

i am not sure what your point is anyway

what i do know is that the article on PH on wikipedia is highly fraudulent and doctored.
how do i know just follow the references they lead NOWHERE or to works like

"a history of the IGBOS"

NOT NEUTRAL.
i have read much of what has been written but this is NOT about ME. so this ploy to move from issues to ME is a transparent ploy and won't work stick to facts. if you have any present them and the source.

forget about me my 20 years that i keep throwing in your face has been use to demonstrate my knowledge of the terrain by citing a list of what i believe to be facts .
now you deal with my FACTS ONE by one . if you wish to join issue not trying to undermine me.
what is it i have said that you dispute?
i certainly dispute your ridiculous claim that events of the 20th century are not subject to dispute.
if history in the twentieth century is not disputable why did they; ikwerre, see fit to rename their towns

rumu instead of umu
why  do israelis claim that when they came to palestine there was no one there or very few people
why are there land disputes between states in nigeria that were ALL created after 1960
please leave all that yarn.

the crux of the matter is
most of PH  as we know it today is Ikwerre land
a significant amount is NOT Ikwerre land
Many Ikwerres claim they are NOT igbo
Many Igbos claim Ikwerr ARE Igbo

i am not saying anything more than the bolded

abagworo

if you scroll up you will notice that i said i am done with you i am not interested in talking with you. it is possible that i am tribalistic or NOT. but that is a charge against which i cannot present any defence .

so i will leave others to judge. it will not deter me from addressing the thread.
i do not think i will gain anything talking to you so like i said before i am done with you.

The point is there is no dispute about Iguocha, the cliffs at the end of the Diobu lands. Diobu lands are the start of Port Harcourt. The people who actually negotiated the lands have written down who they've went to, what the native called the port, and where the lands spread to (into Okrika lands). You haven't given us anything that says anybody is disputing that there was an Iguocha or that Diobu was the start of Port Harcourt, if there was then we would move on.

aribisala0:


the crux of the matter is
most of PH  as we know it today is Ikwerre land
a significant amount is NOT Ikwerre land
Many Ikwerres claim they are NOT igbo
Many Igbos claim Ikwerr ARE Igbo

Since you have come down to the real issue.Let me just correct you on the parts you don't know.Wikipedia is bullsh*t and should be of little or no help.

Most of Port Harcourt right from time has been Ikwerre land.Very insignificant area is Okrika and Kalabari land.

The Ikwerres were part of the Igbo union and always saw themselves first as Ikwerre but generally as Igbo.

"Rumu" and "Umu" are like "Ifeanyi" and "Iheanyi".One can choose the one to bear.

Ikwerre claim of non-Igbo started with States creation in 1967 and was done out of political interest by a few Ikwerre politicians and later under durex by more people in order not to be massacred by the federal troops.

Ikwerres are generally not happy with the sour relationship brought about by the war and wish to make amends.

Aribisala, what exactly is your contention here? A serious question. Just quote my post and then respond with what exactly your contention is. I want to know explicitly.

http://independentmonitorng.com/index1.html


He said every effort made for the creation of Rivers State was rebuffed by General Yakubu Gowon, the then Head of State on the ground that Rivers State was covered with waters and that there was nowhere to site the capital since Port Harcourt belongs to the Ibos. He said it was at that point that Eze Oriji stood up and said that he was from Ikwerre and that Port Harcourt belongs to Ikwerre and that Ikwerres are not Ibos. He then pleaded that the capital of the new state be sited in Port Harcourt. He said it was on that assurance that Rivers State was created with Port Harcourt as capital city in 1967 by General Yakubu Gowon.

As a result of his efforts towards the creation of Rivers State and his dislike of the Ibos over the marginalization of Ikwerre people,

chinenye there is no contention unfortunately some of your brethren do not like debate and takes things too personally
my view is this IN summary
1. PH is mostly but NOT entirely Ikwerre (THERE ARE OTHER LANDLORDS)
2. The issue of whether Ikwerre are Igbo is debatable and (NOT settled) as such no one should claim from outside to have the final word it is for the Ikwerres to tell us what they want SO FAR THEY SAY THEY PREFER TO BE CALLED IKWERRE.

Everyone must respect that

ezeagu:

You'll never hear Igwe Ocha because it's not the name of any village or clan. It was used by mostly [b]Ohafia [/b]migrant railway workers from Iguocha (Ugwu ocha in standard Igbo). The village group Port Harcourt grew out of (and then absorbed more Ikwerre and then Okrika lands) is Diobu, which is Ikwerre. Ugwu ocha is not controversial, are you saying this because it 'sounds' Igbo? If it's controversial then it's only controversial in the sense that someone is trying to rewrite their own history, as in cutting off the nose to . . . blah blah.

regarding your post i am just stating that there are many versions of the iguocha claim and yours is obviously different from the OHAFIA version and we have heard one or two others on this thread .

as such, this iguocha claim is not verifiable and controversial
what is curious is that the ikwerres could not name the area and had to wait for ohafia people to name it??

@aribisala
It's obvious you have a hiddent agenda. That's why you left the topic about Ikwerre being Igbo and delved into the fact that port-hacourt is not Ikwerreland. Your tribalistic nature wil not allow you to argue objectively.

ezeagu:

The point is there is no dispute about Iguocha, the cliffs at the end of the Diobu lands. Diobu lands are the start of Port Harcourt. The people who actually negotiated the lands have written down who they've went to, what the native called the port, and where the lands spread to (into Okrika lands). You haven't given us anything that says anybody is disputing that there was an Iguocha or that Diobu was the start of Port Harcourt, if there was then we would move on.

it is a fundamental principle of scholarship that he who makes claims must substantiate them.

negotiated which lands ??
you are just making assumptions here. not one shred of EVIDENCE to back upanything.
my position is an easy one i am questioning claims it is not for ME to disprove any claim but for claimants to PROVE them.
how can i possibly prove that there are no little green Ijebu men living in underground caves on the moon