The solution is like cutting a weed from the stem instead of the root.There will always be anarchy in a state where the leaders are rogues.

A psychological victory, at best.

Belief in juju is based on deep ignorance.

When in 1897, the Oba and his chiefs were beheading 30 men, women and children per day as part of rituals to "fortify" the city from the invading British forces, how did that go down? The British forces obliterated the juju-believing inferior Benin warriors, marched to the palace, and slapped down the Oba from his throne. He was then put in shackles and transported to Calabar, where he died.

The above is a historical fact and I repeat it here not to ridicule the Benin Empire (I'm proud of the Benin monarchy as an institution and the level of civilization the empire achieved as far back as the 1400s), but to reiterate the point that belief in juju is based on unimaginably deep ignorance.

Nigeria is playing at the World Cup in South Africa. Can any juju practitioner, including the "powerful" Oba of Benin, do some juju so we can win the world cup?

RichyBlacK:

A psychological victory, at best.

Belief in juju is based on deep ignorance.

When in 1897, the Oba and his chiefs were beheading 30 men, women and children per day as part of rituals to "fortify" the city from the invading British forces, how did that go down? The British forces obliterated the juju-believing inferior Benin warriors, marched to the palace, and slapped down the Oba from his throne. He was then put in shackles and transported to Calabar, where he died.

The above is a historical fact and I repeat it hear not to ridicule the Benin Empire (I'm proud of the Benin monarchy as an institution and the level of civilization the empire achieved as far back as the 1400s), but to reiterate the point that belief in juju is based on unimaginably deep ignorance.

Nigeria is playing at the World Cup in South Africa. Can any juju practitioner, including the "powerful" Oba of Benin, do some juju so we can win the world cup?

lwkmd.if the juju couldn't save their ancenstral king back in the days,why would it save the supereagles in south Africa or cause the death of armed robbers and kidnappers.

Dont forget the brits took a right pounding before they even got close to the bini land.

more

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9903E3DE1230E333A25751C2A9679C94669ED7CF

snowdrops:

Dont forget the brits took a right pounding before they even got close to the bini land.

[center]The Case of Benin

Memorandum submitted by Prince Edun Akenzua[/center]
I am Edun Akenzua Enogie (Duke) of Obazuwa-Iko, brother of His Majesty, Omo, n'Oba n'Edo, Oba (King) Erediauwa of Benin, great grandson of His Majesty Omo n'Oba n'Edo, Oba Ovonramwen, in whose reign the cultural property was removed in 1897. I am also the Chairman of the Benin Centenary Committee established in 1996 to commemorate 100 years of Britain's invasion of Benin, the action which led to the removal of the cultural property.

British troops invaded Benin on 10 February[/b]1897. After a fierce battle, they captured the city, on [b]February 18. Three days later, on 21 February precisely, they torched the city and burnt down practically every house. Pitching their tent on the Palace grounds, the soldiers gathered all the bronzes, ivory-works, carved tusks and oak chests that escaped the fire. Thus, some 3,000 pieces of cultural artwork were taken away from Benin. The bulk of it was taken from the burnt down Palace.


Source: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmcumeds/371/371ap27.htm


Benin fell in 8 days!

Question: Why didn't the all-powerful Benin juju annihilate the British invaders?

Very simple question with hopefully simple answer. Thank you

Wrong. Bini did not fall in 8 days. As is shown in my link above, the brits initial expendition was repelled and all but two of the crew were obliterated. Those that were not killed were eaten up by mosquitoes and other bugs.

Even the so called punitive expendition, had to recruit a full army, with reinforcement from the ? gulf of guinea. They did not capture the oba. He surrendered voluntarily. He was not jailed but sent on exile to calabar were he lived comfortably till ? 1914.

gidson12:

I grew up in benin n i know how powerful d oba is, benin no dey take am play at all. I guess it's time up 4 those robbers n kidnappers

U must be very old to say that. The Oba of Benin has been relaxed and seldomly engages in traditional rites compared to the the formal Obas. He is more respected than feared.

Yet I think the hardened criminals will not show up preferring to die miserably. I weep for their future!

snowdrops:

Wrong. Bini did not fall in 8 days. As is shown in my link above, the brits initial expendition was repelled and all but two of the crew were obliterated. Those that were not killed were eaten up by mosquitoes and other bugs.

Even the so called punitive expendition, had to recruit a full army, with reinforcement from the ? gulf of guinea. They did not capture the oba. He surrendered voluntarily. He was not jailed but sent on exile to calabar were he lived comfortably till ? 1914.

You're knowledge of this aspect of Benin history is hazy.

I refer you to:

The Fall of Benin: A Reassessment
Philip A. Igbafe
The Journal of African History, Vol. 11, No. 3 (1970), pp. 385-400
Published by: Cambridge University Press

Very very interesting!

Why didn't they place curses on the rulers who milk this country dry on a daily basis? Why don't they put curses on the top PHCN officials who collect huge bribes from importers of generators and deny citizens of electricity? Why don't they put curses on the leaders who have turned their backs on the development of this country and as a result, crime rate has shot up due to insane levels of unemployment and no social welfare.

Typical African way of addressing issues.Instead of tackling the problem from the root, they chase shadows.

Rubbish!

more detailed version of events.

The historical background
After the abolition of the Slave Trade at the beginning of the nineteenth century British attention on the West African coast was turned towards 'legitimate trade' supplying trade goods in return for raw materials or semi processed commodities, in particular palm oil, a major lubricant for the industrial revolution. Towards the end of the nineteenth century, following the carve up of Africa into 'spheres of influence' by the European powers, the British had an established presence along the coast of present day Nigeria, with some areas administered directly from Whitehall and others under trading company control. Spheres of influence were defined by European powers in relation to each other, and often had little meaning on the ground, being based on ambiguous treaties entered into with traditional rulers.
The Niger Coast Protectorate included the Niger Delta and the trading ports to the east. By 1895 the Protectorate government had established its authority, frequently by use of force, over all the major trading centres except the ancient kingdom of Benin which insisted on retaining sovereignty and trading independence. A 'trade and protection' treaty had been concluded with Benin in 1892 by Capt. Gallwey on the first official visit to the city in thirty years. But trade, conducted via the intermediary of the coastal Itsekiri people, was less profitable than expected and the Protectorate administration was feeling the pressure from the rival British administrations of Lagos Colony and the Royal Niger Company, both desiring to 'open up' the hinterland to trade. Ralph Moor, the Consul General of the Niger Coast Protectorate, felt hampered by the Foreign Office's reluctance to allow him to mount an armed expedition against the kingdom of Benin. This is the background against which the events of 1987 occurred, when Moor was on leave in England and a newly arrived Acting Consul General, James Phillips took up his post.

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The events of 1897
Phillips had met Consul General Moor only once, in London, just before his departure. Moor, who had a history of violence against African rulers who did not submit to his authority, had already proposed a military operation against Benin but had been prevented b; his more cautious superiors in Whitehall (military expeditions could become very expensive and produce disappointing returns). Phillips intentions become clear in his despatches to the Foreign Office. Immediately on arrival he called a meeting of traders and officials and wrote a report to Whitehall:
The whole of the English merchants represented on the river have petitioned the government for aid to enable them to keep their factories (trading posts) open, and last but not least, the revenues of this Protectorate are suffering , I am certain that there is only one remedy. That is to depose the King of Benin , I am convinced that pacific measures are now quite useless, and that the time has now come to remove the obstruction , I do not anticipate any serious resistance from the people of the country - there is every reason to believe that they would be glad to get rid of their King - but in order to obviate any danger, I wish to take up sufficient armed force , I would add that I have reason to hope that sufficient ivory may be found in the King's house to pay the expenses incurred.
Before he had received a reply to this despatch Phillips had undertaken his disastrous mission. He had sent a message to the Oba informing him of his intention to visit Benin soon and had received a reply requesting him to delay his visit for some time due to customary rituals during which foreigners could not enter Benin City Phillips ignored several such messages and the advice of a trusted Itsekiri chief to lead his colleagues, carriers and servants to disaster The party of nine British officials and traders together with their servants and carriers, were ambushed on a narrow forest path south of Benin City. Their only weapons, revolvers, were locked away in their luggage. Only two of the white men survived the attack
His decision to undertake this unsanctioned mission was either motivated by personal ambition - to achieve a result before Moor's return - or he was acting under Moor's orders and had, in fact been see up by him to provide an incontrovertible excuse for military intervention Either way Moor got his desire in the violent overthrow of the independent kingdom. The immediate British response was to raise a Punitive Expedition which looted and sacked the City and sent the Oba into exile.

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The official version
The ''official version' of these events was that a brave and humanitarian mission was massacred because of African treachery and barbarity. A small but successful war of colonial conquest then punished the perpetrators and freed the populace from the depredations of a 'Fetish-Priest-King' and his rule of terror. Much was made of the practice of human sacrifice in Benin as a justification for interference:
The King of Benin in the treaty he signed with captain Gallwey, had agreed to place himself and his county under H.M, Protectorate and it was becoming a perfect disgrace that in the Protectorate , so terrible a state of affairs continued as that in what was not very improperly called the City of Blood.
Captain Boisragon, Phillips' colleague on the journey, and one of the two whites to survive, stressed the humanitarian motive for the mission:
The object to the expedition was to try and persuade the king to let the white men come up to his city whenever they wanted to. All their horrible customs could not be put down at once, except by a strong-armed expedition, but could be stamped out gradually by officials continually going up.
A rarer British official historian suggested:
Phillips opinion was that every pacific means towards approaching the King would not be complete until he as Acting Consul-General paid a visit to the King. This was surely a humane desire, a benign wish, to avoid force if possible.
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The Benin perspective
Philip Igbafe, a Nigerian historian comments:
Phillip's visit was against the remonstrance's of the Itsekiri traders, the advice of the Chief Dogho ( a trusted partner of the British), the Oba's refusal and in utter disregard for the traditions and susceptibilities of the Benin people.
The few statements recorded from the Benin witnesses at the trial of the Oba suggest a very different situation to the official version. They indicate that Oba Ovonramwen sought to avoid conflict with the British. Benin had trading contacts with Europe since the fifteenth century with early Portuguese, Dutch and British visitors expressing admiration for the kingdom. However relations had become strained in the preceding decades as the British established permanent trading stations and consulates along the coast and sought to interfere in the internal affairs of African kingdoms.
The 'Gallwey Treaty' had been concluded under veiled threats. The pro forma document was translated verbally from English via a dialect of Yoruba into Edo. The people of Benin have always argued that they understood it as a statement of co operation and trade, certainly not a relinquishing of sovereignty. However its existence was uses as a justification for military action:

It was an insult to the prestige of the Protectorate not to be able to assert its authority within its own limits.
There were internal divisions within the Benin court, dating back to Ovonramwen's accession, and disagreements over an appropriate response to British pressure provided a focus for discontent. Ovonramwen's approach was to refuse visits for all official visits after Gallwey's and to withdraw into isolation from the British, although he still conducted trade via the Itsekiri middlemen. Despite the Oba's attempts to dissuade Phillips from coming, in a courteous manner so as not to provoke him, Phillips stubborn insistence played right into the hands of the radicals who sought to weaken the Oba in the name of defending the nation's sovereignty. The rebels argued that Phillips incursion was a gross insult and that it was too dangerous to allow him into the city and the presence of the Oba. It was hardly credible to the Benin warriors waiting in ambush along the forest path that the party, with its large boxes and over two hundred carriers and servants, was really unarmed.
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The outcome
As Ovonrarmwen foresaw, the attack on Phillips sealed the fate of the Benin kingdom. Within six weeks of the ambush Benin City had fallen. The resistance to the Punitive Expedition was far greater than anticipated by the British but ultimately bows and trade guns were no match for Maxim guns, rifles and rocket tubes. The Oba, 36th of the current dynasty stretching back to the thirteenth century, was deposed. The accumulated works of art from many centuries which adorned the palace were removed wholesale.
A great grandson of Ovonramwen provides a perspective on the outcome:

Many people believe today that the British decided to burn the town as an 'appropriate finale' to the punishment for the people who murdered their sons in cold blood , Whatever their reason, that should have been punishment enough. But they carried away all our works of art too and today we have to buy them back at extortionate prices from the descendants of those who took them. If the British had been intent on showing us a better way of life, they could at least have given us a better example than to remove our treasures and fire our city.
There is a strong sense of grievance of events which are comparatively recent in the oral history of a people whose dynastic legends are datable back through forty generations to the thirteenth century. After the death of Oba Ovonramwen in exile his eldest son was allowed to return to Benin and the dynasty was restored. The Oba of Benin is one of the most influential of modern Nigeria's traditional rulers.
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The art treasures
The Benin art treasures were treated as little more than curios when they were first brought to this country but as the wonderful quality of the ivory carving and bronze casting became appreciated it was reflected in ever increasing prices in the art auction rooms of the world. The Foreign Office sold considerable quantities of ivory to defray the costs of the expedition and many of the officers retained collections of their own. The British Museum acquired the leading collection (partly direct from the Foreign Office, the rest by gift or purchase) while much went to the USA and Germany. Pieces were lost or destroyed during the Second World War in Liverpool and Berlin (apparently quantities of Benin art have been rediscovered in the eastern part of Germany since renunciation).
Relations between Nigeria and Britain were cooled when Nigeria was refused loan of an ivory mask which was the visual symbol of the 2nd World Black ~ African Festival of Arts Culture (FESTAC) held in Nigeria in 1977. Since a major exhibition of Benin art at the Museum of Mankind in the early seventies most of the British Museum's collection has lain in storage.

In 1980 the Nigerian Government spent £800~000 on acquiring four Benin pieces and one Yoruba mask at auction in London.

Increasingly within Nigeria, as well as within international organisations such as UNESCO, issues are raised over the legality of holding art collections expropriated by force (there are many precedents for the negotiated restitution of artworks, dating back to the Napoleonic wars). Parallels are drawn with the campaigns by Greece and Egypt for the return of their antiquities.

The Benin artworks belong to a living culture and have a deep historical and social value which goes far beyond the aesthetic and monetary value they hold in exile.

hahahahahahha

@snowdrops,

My questions:

1. Why didn't this all-powerful, limitless, omnipotent juju defeat the Her Majesty's naval squadron?

2. Did Queen Victoria of England, the reigning queen of England during the Benin Expedition of 1897, possess superior juju to that of Oba Ovonramwen?

3. Could that explain why the Queen's soldiers defeated the Obas' soldiers?

4. What was that superior juju, if any, that Queen Victoria possessed?


Hopefully, some believer in juju will answer these simple questions.

RichyBlacK:

@snowdrops,

My questions:

1. Why didn't this all-powerful, limitless, omnipotent juju defeat the Her Majesty's naval squadron?

2. Did Queen Victoria of England, the reigning queen of England during the Benin Expedition of 1897, possess superior juju to that of Oba Ovonramwen?

3. Could that explain why the Queen's soldiers defeated the Obas' soldiers?

4. What was that superior juju, if any, that Queen Victoria possessed?


Hopefully, some believer in juju will answer these simple questions.

Please ask him.They have all this juju and yet their leaders milk the coffers with careless abandon.Why can't they curse the thieving rulers? Oh,i forgot. . . they are also part of the syndicate.

Rubbish!

Concerning our initial debate, you have to agree that the battle for control of Bini did not last just 8 days as you wrongly quoted above. The full text of Igbafes work is what i have pasted above. It shows the events leading to the Benin Massacre of 1897.

Secondly let me ask you some questions.

Do you believe in the supernatural?

Do you believe in the forces of good and evil?

Do you believe the bible stories in the old and new testaments?

God we are told several times fought numerous battles for his people and won. Sun stood still, rivers divided, etc. Of cause, there were instances were his children also took a beating.

It is only a foolish man that says there are no evil forces AKA juju. Of all the territories of what we now know as Nigeria Bini was the hardest for the Brits to conquere. They literarily walked into other kingdoms with barely any resistance.

Back to topic. If you so dismiss "jass", take an ak47 and go kidnap someone in bini.

harakiri:

Please ask him.They have all this juju and yet their leaders milk the coffers with careless abandon.Why can't they curse the thieving rulers? Oh,i forgot. . . they are also part of the syndicate.

Rubbish!

You are a confused soul You clearly have not read this thread. You simply glimpsed at the topic and quoted richy. Shakes head in pity.

A funny solution to a biiig problem,

people witch craft dey England ooohhh,anyway as tehy said in the write up,"bows and trade guns were no match for Maxim guns, rifles and rocket tubes".
lwkmd when Oba hear the sound of Rocket Tubes,that one na surrender.

i hope the curses aint for armed robbers and kidnappers alone

all thoe who looted the treasury too must be affected

i hope the curse wont fall on lucky

if i hear of armed robbers again in Benin, na yawa again be that cos that means the juju no work

Na waaoh, lets watch and see what will happen after that.

In as much as i support their actions against kidnappers and armed robbers in Benin; i am of the opinion that the bigger thieves deserve X 20 of the curses.

Until they do that; their credibility remains questionable

Na wah oh, see as JUJU dey make men confess. The oldest trick in the book, no be the same juju dey protect the armed robbers from bullet? Or make them illusive to capture? All of them na 419!

lol

snowdrops:

Concerning our initial debate, you have to agree that the battle for control of Bini did not last just 8 days as you wrongly quoted above. The full text of Igbafes work is what i have pasted above. It shows the events leading to the Benin Massacre of 1897.

I have two sources that clearly state that the expedition took eight days:

[size=14pt]1. Prince Edun Akenzua[/size]
The Case of Benin: Memorandum submitted by Prince Edun Akenzua
 I am Edun Akenzua Enogie (Duke) of Obazuwa-Iko, brother of His Majesty, Omo, n'Oba n'Edo, Oba (King) Erediauwa of Benin, great grandson of His Majesty Omo n'Oba n'Edo, Oba Ovonramwen, in whose reign the cultural property was removed in 1897. I am also the Chairman of the Benin Centenary Committee established in 1996 to commemorate 100 years of Britain's invasion of Benin, the action which led to the removal of the cultural property.

British troops invaded Benin on 10 February1897. After a fierce battle, they captured the city, on February 18. Three days later, on 21 February precisely, they torched the city and burnt down practically every house. Pitching their tent on the Palace grounds, the soldiers gathered all the bronzes, ivory-works, carved tusks and oak chests that escaped the fire. Thus, some 3,000 pieces of cultural artwork were taken away from Benin. The bulk of it was taken from the burnt down Palace.


[size=14pt]2. Philip A. Igbafe[/size]
The Fall of Benin: A Reassessment
Philip A. Igbafe
The Journal of African History, Vol. 11, No. 3 (1970), pp. 385-400
Published by: Cambridge University Press

Excerpt from page 398, paragraph 2:

Nine ships of Her Majesty's naval squadron were used for a three-point attack on Benin through the Ologbo creek, the Jamieson River line to Sapoba, and through the Gwatto (Ughoton) Creek. Warigi was the base of operations. Moor arrived there on 9 February I897, and on the 10th the
advance on Benin began. Capturing Sapoba on the 11th and Ologbo on the 12th, the troops advanced from Ologbo on the 14th, with the Benin soldiers keeping up a running fight and contesting every turn. On 18 February the troops captured Benin . . .

At last - a traditional ruler who knows exactly, when and how to use his power. Oba Erediauwa - I salute!

I think other state should follow the same steps in other to reduce crime in the country. Since it is juju the  criminals are afraid of.

May God have mercy on them.

snowdrops:

Secondly let me ask you some questions.

Do you believe in the supernatural?

Yes.

But I believe the supernatural is controlled by supernatural beings, and not by mere mortals like you and I. The Oba of Benin is just a human being, hence a mere mortal.

Do you believe in the forces of good and evil?

Yes, just as I believe in:
1. + and -
2. North pole and south pole
3. Electrons (-) and protons (+)
etc.

Do you believe the bible stories in the old and new testaments?

I believe in the New Testament and in Christ. The Messiah was God in human form, hence making Him an immortal. Jesus Christ was not bound by the restrictions mere mortals like you and I, or the Oba of Benin are bound to. This is the reason He was able to beat death and resurrect in glory to save mankind. I am a Christian and so was Queen Victoria, Queen of England, whose naval squadrons defeated the non-Christian Oba of Benin.

God we are told several times fought numerous battles for his people and won. Sun stood still, rivers divided, etc. Of cause, there were instances were his children also took a beating.

You make no point here. God is the Almighty. No restrictions apply to Him. The Oba of Benin is mere human. What's your point in bringing God into this conversation? Are you somehow trying to compare the Oba of Benin to God?

It is only a foolish man that says there are no evil forces AKA juju. Of all the territories of what we now know as Nigeria Bini was the hardest for the Brits to conquere. They literarily walked into other kingdoms with barely any resistance.

It is only a foolish man that believes any juju can stop the high-velocity projectiles (aka bullets) from an AK-47 rifle.

Your knowledge of Nigeria's precolonial history is fuzzy at best. Benin was conquered in one week plus one day.

Back to topic. If you so dismiss "jass", take an ak47 and go kidnap someone in bini.

I'm a law-abiding citizen and have no business carry guns to commit any crime. Thank you.

[size=18pt]All juju claims are fraudulent![/size]

Pls posters what is all these Oxford, Havard or Cambridge History now? What is the relevant? The people has taken the right step to clean their community from all these grown bastards I presume they should be praise for taken the bold steps.

People who ARE talking what about this and that at least something start from somewhere if all these bastards stop all these nefarious attitude and behaviour people will sleep well in their homes the posibility is there that some community may as well take a hard stand against their politicians. The Akwa Ibom did similar recently by standing against cultism in their political landscape so what Benin people has done is their own business not anybody headache.

Pls if anyone has nothing to offer in a thread he/she is better to be quiet than just saying nonsense. I am not a Benin man but the Benin's has taken their decision to invoke curse on evil doers if anybody feel unhappy with that well that is he or her problem, the curse has be  released nothing can anybody do about it is either they evil doers stop or face the wrath.

Can you imagine, so these white bastards have been dealing with Africans for long and stealing us blind from the days of our ancestors. The other time I read on these same forum how Belgium was stealing gum from DRC and cutting off their hands, what manner of thieves are them sef? Now when yahoo yahoo boys deal with them they shout out to the whole world, e no go better for them! Can you imagine?

bisiaet:

Pls posters what is all these Oxford, Havard or Cambridge History now? What is the relevant? The people has taken the right step to clean their community from all these grown bastards I presume they should be praise for taken the bold steps.

People who ARE talking what about this and that at least something start from somewhere if all these bastards stop all these nefarious attitude and behaviour people will sleep well in their homes the posibility is there that some community may as well take a hard stand against their politicians. The Akwa Ibom did similar recently by standing against cultism in their political landscape so what Benin people has done is their own business not anybody headache.

Pls if anyone has nothing to offer in a thread he/she is better to be quiet than just saying nonsense. I am not a Benin man but the Benin's has taken their decision to invoke curse on evil doers if anybody feel unhappy with that well that is he or her problem, the curse has be released nothing can anybody do about it is either they evil doers stop or face the wrath.

Exactly!
Will all these recitals change the fact that robbers, kidnappers and their bank worker collaborators are quaking in their boots? If this is what Nigerians fear, I say, use it! If it is only psychology; use it as long as it works. Human life is precious and these folk have been wasting it.