RuthlessLeader:
That's how mutt debates.
He types a lot but ends up posting nothing of value.
The only good thing about him is that he isn't an extremist or fundamentalist

The light of the truth, can be too bright to the eyes of those in a dark unforgiving place, to see.

LordReed:
LoL! I thought it was just me, good to know I'm in good company.

[img]https://s2/images/MuttleyHilarious34d26efd4dfccb03.gif[/img]
This is hilarious
Just look at LordReed doing famzing and attaché in slow motion.
Cult of ignorance and proud of being ignorant. SMH

RuthlessLeader:
Why so aggressive like a dog marking its territory?

If I was aggresive like a dog marking its territory, my gloves will be off
There isnt even blood, yet, on the gloves Ruth

RuthlessLeader:
You know you and your crew haven't said anything to answer the Op

I do recall posting the below:

"Now going back to the original question:
"Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset?"

There is an ambiguity in the question and the ambiguity is with "Onset"

Which "Onset" is this?
"Onset" from where, when or what?"
https://www.nairaland.com/4793738/why-didnt-god-kill-satan/2#72236339

---

---

---

but OK, and to appease you and MrBible,
here are a few reasons, out of the many other simplistic excuses behind why God didnt kill Satan from the onset
1/ It is because God is sovereign is why God didnt kill Satan from the onset
2/ It is because of the God prerogative, that God didnt kill Satan from the onset
(frank317 being an author, shouldn't feign not understanding what this is about, frank317 practices this a lot with his narrative characters)
3/ It is because killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, isnt going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem
4/ It is because Satan will be a tool and part of the solution

frank317:
lol... i just didnt know where to begin with u...
I am glad i am not the only one who feel that way.

I could spend the whole month interacting with u and end up wondering if u even know what u are sayin

I know what I bring to the table
Are your teeth strong enough to bite and chew on it?
Is your stomach strong enough to hold it in without retching up?

frank317:
I think u are just out to waste my time...
sorry, I dont have time for waste.

You think I am out to waste your time, you say. Pfft
I freely, willingly and as long as I can will, give over time for you
Why? because lies can only manage to run sprints, but the truth runs marathons

frank317:
I seriously dont know what he is feeling like. God perhaps.

Your ignorance on this matter humbles me

frank317:
If the 13 year old was reading their response she would even be more confused.

The 13 year old will come out more enlightened because the knowledge gap that prompted the question will have been filled and dealt with

frank317:
Imagine, God knew freewill will mess his world up after introducing it ans made preparations for the worst that will happen...
yet today, millions are on their way to hell with the devil.
SMH, so much for putting things in place

They are all a bunch of clowns.

Did you proofread what you just typed up here?
Did you muse over the cat and police dogs picture I attached up there, asking for an appropriate caption?

MuttleyLaff:

Look at LordReed doing famzing and attaché in slow motion.
Cult of ignorance and proud of being ignorant. SMH

LoL! Stop taking out your bitterness on me, go face the people who yabbed your life. LMFAO!

LordReed:
LoL! Stop taking out your bitterness on me, go face the people who yabbed your life. LMFAO!

"... you're a strongly bitter, twisted, cynical and high negatively charged up scoffer,
that's not yet ready to be unplugged, as you've become inured to your overcharged up negative energy"
- MuttleyLaff: 6:50pm On Sep 16 ©
https://www.nairaland.com/4699322/decades-sexual-abuse-catholic-church/4#71256157

When I wrote that about you on September 16th, I just knew then, you are bitter.
You are full of venom, bitter over something, something that tipped you over the cliff

I have being in your shoes LordReed but never got disillusioned because Isaiah 57:1 propped me up.
For the record, I have no bitterness in me, good luck trying with another card

MuttleyLaff:
"... you're a strongly bitter, twisted, cynical and high negatively charged up scoffer,
that's not yet ready to be unplugged, as you've become inured to your overcharged up negative energy"
- MuttleyLaff: 6:50pm On Sep 16 ©
https://www.nairaland.com/4699322/decades-sexual-abuse-catholic-church/4#71256157

When I wrote that about you on September 16th, I just knew then, you are bitter.
You are full of venom, bitter over something, something that tipped you over the cliff

I have being in your shoes LordReed but never got disillusioned because Isaiah 57:1 propped me up.
For the record, I have no bitterness in me, good luck trying with another card

LMFAO! Go and face the people who yabbed your life, I have no words to batter for empty nonsense.

MuttleyLaff:
The light of the truth, can be too bright to the eyes of those in a dark unforgiving place, to see.

You're saying atheist have the light, while theists are in darkness. Okay.

[s]Look at LordReed doing famzing and attaché in slow motion. [/s]
Cult of ignorance and proud of being ignorant. SMH

The cult seems to be religion yo.

If I was aggresive like a dog marking its territory, my gloves will be off
There isnt even blood, yet, on the gloves Ruth

What?

1/ It is because God is sovereign is why God didnt kill Satan from the onset

This excuse makes God look like an idiot. What does his sovereignity have to do with him wanting to save his children from that monster satan?

2/ It is because of the God prerogative, that God didnt kill Satan from the onset

In one sentence not passing two lines, what is the god prerogative

3/ It is because killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, isnt going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem

How so?

4/ It is because Satan will be a tool and part of the solution

After millions have been damned.

I know what I bring to the table
Are your teeth strong enough to bite and chew on it?
Is your stomach strong enough to hold it in without retching up?

[s]You think I am out to waste your time, you say. Pfft
I freely, willingly and as long as I can will, give over time for you
Why? because lies can only manage to run sprints, but the truth runs marathons

Your ignorance on this matter humbles me

The 13 year old will come out more enlightened because the knowledge gap that prompted the question will have been filled and dealt with

Did you proofread what you just typed up here?
Did you muse over the cat and police dogs picture I attached up there, asking for an appropriate caption?[/s]

Trash.

RuthlessLeader:
You're saying atheist have the light, while theists are in darkness. Okay.

No, I said it the other way round (i.e. theists have the light, while atheists are in darkness)
You can fall back to sleep, dreaming on.

RuthlessLeader:
The cult seems to be religion yo.

You dont know what true and pure religion is, Ruth

RuthlessLeader:
What?

You heard,
just so in case, you didnt properly hear it right the first time,
I'll paraphrase, I am with one arm tied behind my back, discussing with frank317

RuthlessLeader:
This excuse makes God look like an idiot.

OK, Mr smarty-pants, why dont you present or point to your handiwork of a world and humans you've created for us to see how good a job you made of it?

RuthlessLeader:
What does his sovereignity have to do with him wanting to save his children from that monster satan?

Wrong questioning sequence
You are putting the the cart before the horse
You can't see the forest for the trees.
Don't you see that "monster satan" is a detail?

RuthlessLeader:
In one sentence not passing two lines, what is the god prerogative

I can, instead of one sentence, do it better with one word
PRIVILEGE
That is what "the God prerogative" is

RuthlessLeader:
How so?

The situational problem will appear again
Hang on, so, you really think, killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, is going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem?

RuthlessLeader:
After millions have been damned.

Somethings are always going to get worse before they got better.

RuthlessLeader:
Trash.

"I have much more to say to you,
but right now, it would be more, than you could understand."
- John 16:12

Ruth, this table you are shaking, you know you're not balanced and havent the stamina
I give you two pages and that's being generous, you'll soon scram, to scratch head and lick bruises

One man's trash, literally, is another man's treasure.

Remember, Satan challenge God in the midst of other angels, if God had killed Satan t will make it look as if Satan was right and God was wrong. So he let me to prove himself wrong

Simple answer is, no one dies in eternity, you only die in this world of sin

MuttleyLaff:

You dont know what true and pure religion is, Ruth

Scientology? Buddhism? The church of the sub-genius? They seem like true religion.

You heard,
just so in case, you didnt properly hear it right the first time,
I'll paraphrase, I am with one arm tied behind my back, discussing with frank317

Okay. Dream on.

OK, Mr smarty-pants, why dont you present or point to your handiwork of a world and humans you've created for us to see how good a job you made of it?

It's in surulere, go and see for yourself. The place is a paradise.

Wrong questioning sequence
You are putting the the cart before the horse
You can't see the forest for the trees.
Don't you see that "monster satan" is a detail?

Satan is a danger, no need for all this sophistry. You make it sound like god planned for satan to rebel.

I can, instead of one sentence, do it better with one word
PRIVILEGE
That is what "the God prerogative" is

I think that sentence is better than this word which can mean anything you want it to mean.

The situational problem will appear again
Hang on, so, you really think, killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, is going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem?

Yes. Anything that does not involve the eternal damnation of millions is better than what yahweh did.

Somethings are always going to get worse before they got better

Omnipotent and omniscient God couldn't use another way which didn't have to have millions suffer eternally for an ancestor's sin.

"I have much more to say to you,
but right now, it would be more, than you could understand."
- John 16:12

That's how atheist here feel debating theists.

One man's trash, literally, is another man's treasure.

Shebi.

Anyways, you still haven't answered my questions. You just dodge and say a whole lot of nothing.

Aarondan:

Remember, Satan challenge God in the midst of other angels, if God had killed Satan t will make it look as if Satan was right and God was wrong. So he let me to prove himself wrong

Why couldn't God just give satan another universe and set of humans and angels to run so that we could compare between the two universes to see which is best?

That way means that God can simultaneousluy show satan to be wrong and he himself right, and we will be able to exercise our free will to see which is better.

xpmode:
Simple answer is, no one dies in eternity, you only die in this world of sin

But if you are a sinner, you spend eternity in hell.

RuthlessLeader:
But if you are a sinner, you spend eternity in hell.

How does your response correlation with the OP or my comments,
DO you need your med

RuthlessLeader:


Why couldn't God just give satan another universe and set of humans and angels to run so that we could compare between the two universes to see which is best?

That way means that God can simultaneousluy show satan to be wrong and he himself right, and we will be able to exercise our free will to see which is better.

Haba you wan kill god? He made one universe and he couldn't rest, if he makes 2 he'll run mad na. LMFAO!

xpmode:


How does your response correlation with the OP or my comments,

DO you need your med

How did your initial post which I responded to correlate with the Op? Do YOU need your medication

RuthlessLeader:
Scientology? Buddhism? The church of the sub-genius? They seem like true religion

You have misunderstood what religion is
You are living with Alice in Wonderland,
if Scientology, Buddhism or "The church of the sub-genius" is what you understand true and pure religion to be

RuthlessLeader:
Okay. Dream on.

Yep, suck it up

RuthlessLeader:
It's in surulere, go and see for yourself. The place is a paradise.

You are out of touch with reality
I repeat present or point to your handiwork, of a world and humans you created, for us to see how good a job you made of it
otherwise apologise for your impudence, reckless and thoughtless "This excuse makes God look like an idiot" comment
You ought put "Learn how to mind my language concerning what I refer God as" on your bucket list

RuthlessLeader:
Satan is a danger

It's good to know, you accept and agree that Satan is a danger
but tell, please:
1/ How Satan, is a danger?
2/ Was Satan a danger from the beginning?
3/ When and why did Satan become a danger?

RuthlessLeader:
no need for all this sophistry.

We've been doing this lane before
because you quite well, know that I dont do arguments Ruth.

I surrender sophistry to you Ruth and your gang because you lot are experts and best at it

The only times, you guys dont do sophistry, is when you have a temper tantrum & frustration caused from lack of understanding
so you throw a strop, spit out the dummy, fling it out on the floor and storm out of a thread with a shattered and bruised ego.

RuthlessLeader:
You make it sound like god planned for satan to rebel.

Wrong!
You are doing it again Ruth, not seeing the forest for the trees.
Satan, rebelling, is a by product of something else

Ruth, I am not making it sound like God planned for satan to rebel
The fact is, Satan was given total freedom to be himself,
afterall, surely, you can accept and agree that, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth

RuthlessLeader:
I think that sentence is better than this word, which can mean anything you want it to mean.

You requested that I say in one sentence not passing two lines, what is the god prerogative

I responded that, instead of one sentence, I can do it better with one word
so gave you - PRIVILEGE

Showing with one word, what "the God prerogative" is
but because of your ignorance of what the meaning of PRIVILEGE is,
you resorted to typing out, saying: "I think that sentence is better than this word which can mean anything you want it to mean".

SMH, there just isnt pleasing some people

RuthlessLeader:
Yes.
Anything that does not involve the eternal damnation of millions is better than what yahweh did

You would say that, wouldnt you?
I am sorry Ruth, but there isnt any better other way
If there were, trust me Ruth, God wouldnt shy from it

Ruth, I am picking up that your grievance, strongly, is about "Anything that does not involve the eternal damnation of millions"
and it seems "eternal damnation" is the focal of your outrage
Why does it bother and eat away in you?

RuthlessLeader:
Omnipotent and omniscient God couldn't use another way which didn't have to have millions suffer eternally for an ancestor's sin.

Let me share with you something, I feel, you can, at least relate to

Ruth, in Bill Gates' Microsoft applications, millions of files may greatly suffer for "an ancestor's sin"
This is because new files are composed and created using default settings stored and/or saved in the "ancestor file"
but troubles can arise with the new files when the "ancestor file" gets corrupted or when it gets infected with a virus
Bottom line, when there is a blemish in a template, subsequent things made from it will suffer until when the flaw is fixed or template replaced

Now look at the bright side of things, to survive, is to find some meaning in the suffering
At the end of it, we will forget the suffering
but never forget what the suffering taught, as will end being a better person

Etch this Romans 8:18-22 verse on to the back of your mind, as I'll reproduce it soon in full, somewhere below next

RuthlessLeader:
That's how atheist here feel debating theists.

You're absolutely right that atheist here debate theists but it's DOA game plan.
Atheists unwittingly display the arrogance of an intellectual delighting in his own ignorances
That perfectly and/or completely, sums up who an atheist is
Argument is food for an atheist,
and why they are unashamed flock together, looking to trade in barter, for an exchange of ignorance

RuthlessLeader:
Shebi.

Call that getting an education.
Aside being a nugget of information. It's all about attitude and perspective

RuthlessLeader:
Anyways, you still haven't answered my questions.
You just dodge and say a whole lot of nothing.

I clearly and without doubts, answered all questions, I did not dodge,
I said a whole lot but I guess you got overwhelmed under fast and furious information overload

Let me jolt your memory a bit,
do you remember what my "The situational problem will appear again" was in response to?

RuthlessLeader:
Why couldn't God just give satan another universe and set of humans and angels to run so that we could compare between the two universes to see which is best?

LordReed:
Haba you wan kill god? He made one universe and he couldn't rest, if he makes 2 he'll run mad na. LMFAO!

It always has to be done on your terms, isnt it?
It always has to be your way and if not, the highway then, isnt it?

I just had to laugh, it's a bit of change from the regular,
as I havent in recent times, read such discombobulated posts, as ones, like these two jokers'

RuthlessLeader:
That way means that God can simultaneousluy show satan to be wrong and he himself right, and we will be able to exercise our free will to see which is better.

"¹⁸I consider our present sufferings insignificant, compared to the glory that will soon be revealed to us.
¹⁹All creation is eagerly waiting for God to reveal who his children are.
²⁰Creation was subjected to frustration but not by its own choice. The one who subjected it to frustration did so in the hope
²¹that it would also be set free from slavery to decay in order to share the glorious freedom that the children of God will have.
²²We know that all creation has been groaning with the pains of childbirth up to the present time."
- Romans 8:18-22

What planet are you on?
What do you think has been happening and/or is happening all along?

JEHOVAH is HIS name {Exodus 6:2,3 Psalms 83:18}
HE is not a bully so exterminating those three rebels "Satan, Adam and Eve" will not solve the problem. There is a question raised :Can man lived and decide what's right and wrong without God's guidance?
Today there are hundreds of countries around the world and Satan is still deceiving them that they can lead themselves without God's guidance, they're now experimenting another system of rulership called "democracy" when JEHOVAH has already declared that it will never work for the good of man. Ecclesiastes 4:1,8:9
The problem is man can't direct his own steps yet he is planning to lead other intelligent creatures like himself. Jeremiah 10:23 compared to Genesis 2:17
JEHOVAH is coming to destroy all those governments and their supporters(Daniel 2:44 compared with (Revelations 19:19-21) but those who are waiting patiently for HIS chosen King will live forever! Zephaniah 2:2,3 Luke 19:27
So don't waist further time, go and learn about the true God from HIS one and only worshippers "Jehovah's Witnesses" My brothers and sisters are living in your neighborhood coming often to help you grasp the concept of the whole message in the inspired writings called Bible. Matthew 10:3-22 28:19,20
Don't harbor hatred for them because they're the ones JEHOVAH is using to dispense the needed knowledge for Salvation. Romans 10:13-15
If your religion has taught you some things that is making you feel somehow about US, please feel free to approach US and ask why the difference. Remember Jesus said "ask" He wasn't telling you to ask religious title holders but His humble servants coming to knock on your door! Matthew 7:7 compared with Proverbs 2:1-5 God bless you!

MuttleyLaff:


OK, and to appease you and MrBible,
here are a few reasons, out of the many other simplistic excuses behind why God didnt kill Satan from the onset
1/ It is because God is sovereign is why God didnt kill Satan from the onset
2/ It is because of the God prerogative, that God didnt kill Satan from the onset
(frank317 being an author, shouldn't feign not understanding what this is about, frank317 practices this a lot with his narrative characters)
3/ It is because killing Satan straightaway, from the onset, isnt going to immediately, solve or deal with the situational problem
4/ It is because Satan will be a tool and part of the solution

Sorry but non of these answers the question. To any sane mind all these reasons are baseless and does not even attempt to answer the question.

Me: john, why did u beat that kid.
John: because I am stronger than him

My conclusion will be that John is mentally unstable.

I know what I bring to the table
Are your teeth strong enough to bite and chew on it?
Is your stomach strong enough to hold it in without retching up?

This is just one of ur rantings... Everybody feels good about themselves.

You think I am out to waste your time, you say. Pfft
I freely, willingly and as long as I can will, give over time for you
Why? because lies can only manage to run sprints, but the truth runs marathons

Ok

Your ignorance on this matter humbles me

Ya.... Make things up and claim u are a genius... Isn't it what that bible is all about? It gives everyone opportunity to form opinion about a supposes God and claim his view is the best. Wonder why we have many churches.
The bible is as easy to understand as a nursery book. The story behind Satan and God is a myth. That's why even a 13 years old can ask such a sensitive question. Yet u cannot come up with a reasonable answer. If God is who u say he is satan has no business crawling under his skin.

The 13 year old will come out more enlightened because the knowledge gap that prompted the question will have been filled and dealt with

Ur opinion... Again, why did God not kill Satan from the onset... This is a jamb question u can never never answer.

Did you proofread what you just typed up here?
Did you muse over the cat and police dogs picture I attached up there, asking for an appropriate caption?

Try again... The more u answer the more u make ur God sound clueless.

Aarondan:
Remember, Satan challenge God in the midst of other angels, if God had killed Satan t will make it look as if Satan was right and God was wrong. So he let me to prove himself wrong

This is not true. If Satan was actually wrong, killing Satan off will not make him right.

xpmode:
Simple answer is, no one dies in eternity, you only die in this world of sin

I can say this is the best answer I have seen so far. Yet... I can only assume that God made a mistake from the beginning. He created sometimes he couldn't control.

frank317:
Sorry but non of these answers the question. To any sane mind all these reasons are baseless and does not even attempt to answer the question.

Me: John, why did u beat that kid.
John: because I am stronger than him

My conclusion will be that John is mentally unstable

Do you see how dishonest, insecure, ridiculous and ludicrous you sound with this absurd and bizarre scenario

What has "why did u beat that kid" got to do with "Why didnt God kill Satan from the onset?"
Even if, I am to play along with your weak and useless scenario, please tell me:
1/ Who are you, what are you to John and the kid?
2/ Is John sovereign?
3/ Does John have the "God prerogative"?

Typical of the frank317 I am increasingly becoming to better know,
you in a careless and unwise way have hastily concluded without due careful consideration of all the facts, that John is mentally unstable.

I hope the fictitious John sues the pants off you, in an imaginary court of law

frank317:
This is just one of ur rantings...
Everybody feels good about themselves.

You're just being plain resentful
and trying to console yourself into a false sense of security

frank317:
Ok

You havent the stamina.
Asides your lack of stamina, biblical illiteracy and extreme ignorance, one of your other main challenges is information overload
You cant handle biblical knowledge and/or information
Too much of it, does a flying swoosh, over your head.

frank317:
Ya.... Make things up and claim u are a genius...
Isn't it what that bible is all about?
It gives everyone opportunity to form opinion about a supposes God and claim his view is the best.
Wonder why we have many churches.
The bible is as easy to understand as a nursery book. The story behind Satan and God is a myth.

Silence, as in, not writing anything at all, is better than reading this pitiful temper tantrums and emotional outburst.

frank317:
That's why even a 13 years old can ask such a sensitive question.
Yet u cannot come up with a reasonable answer

I have given you few reasonable answers to start with
but the truth doesn't fit your agenda

frank317:
If God is who u say He is, satan has no business crawling under his skin.

You've got more jokes, right?
That has to be a joke and lazy assumption, to say that satan is crawling under God's skin

Have you not yet read the memo that Satan will get his comeuppance in the end,
Now that you know, I suggest you mind your own business and begin worrying about yourself or destiny

frank317:
Ur opinion...
Again, why did God not kill Satan from the onset...

Killing Satan from the onset doesn't and wouldn't solve the situational problem because it will on scene appear again

frank317:
This is a jamb question u can never never answer.

It has to be ignorance that makes someone make such a laughable comment like this

frank317:
Try again...
The more u answer the more u make ur God sound clueless.

The more you try to look at the answer(s), the less you see and none the wiser you are.

[b][/b]God did not kill Satan because there was no need for that. Satan is part of the divine plan. Earth is a big school house, Satan is the head master. They are two faces of the same coin, positive and negative, man and woman, day and night. Within all of us is the potential to be either good or bad. What you call Satan. Is a force working for God. It's the reason no amount of prayer can conquer Satan. Read the book of Job from verse one

MuttleyLaff:
You have misunderstood what religion is
You are living with Alice in Wonderland,
if Scientology, Buddhism or "The church of the sub-genius" is what you understand true and pure religion to be

Yep, suck it up

You are out of touch with reality
I repeat present or point to your handiwork, of a world and humans you created, for us to see how good a job you made of it
otherwise apologise for your impudence, reckless and thoughtless "This excuse makes God look like an idiot" comment
You ought put "Learn how to mind my language concerning what I refer God as" on your bucket list

Someone doesn't understand sarcasm. And god is still an idiotic, narcissisitic rapist.

It's good to know, you accept and agree that Satan is a danger
but tell, please:
1/ How Satan, is a danger?

He is a predator who leads those who are innocent into sin. He has caused and is bringing about the damnation of billions for eternity.

2/ Was Satan a danger from the beginning?

From the moment he came into being. God as the omniscient God who can see all possible futures knew the danger satan posed to mankind but he chose to do nothing about it. He could have cautioned satan and told him what he would do. He could have at least talked to satan to prevent the events of the bible, not keep quiet and let satan sin and then have us sin and punish all of humanity fir the sins of three people. I know you will give me some half assed excuse on why God didn't try these better options.

3/ When and why did Satan become a danger?

When he was created. And the why is because he thought he could do a better job.

We've been doing this lane before
because you quite well, know that I dont do arguments Ruth.

You just say a whole lot of nothing to conguse your opponents so they forget the crux of the matter. I wonder if this is how you behave in real life.

I surrender sophistry to you Ruth and your gang because you lot are experts and best at it

Don't project your crew's M.O. on me.

The only times, you guys dont do sophistry, is when you have a temper tantrum & frustration caused from lack of understanding
so you throw a strop, spit out the dummy, fling it out on the floor and storm out of a thread with a shattered and bruised ego.

The only guys who throw temper tantrums are the intolerant ones who are angry that someone doesn't worship their imaginary god.

Wrong!
You are doing it again Ruth, not seeing the forest for the trees.

A whole lot of nothing. Trying to appear smart but failing in the process.

Satan, rebelling, is a by product of something else

God's incompetence and negligence despite his omnipotence and omniscience. Not creating satan, talking to satan or giving him his own universe to run would have been much better options than the stupid thing he did.

Ruth, I am not making it sound like God planned for satan to rebel

You are either doing that or indirectly saying god was incompetent.

The fact is, Satan was given total freedom to be himself,

The fact is, counselling and advicing satan would have been a much better choice than leaving him to come to his own conclusion. It also wouldn't infringe on his free will, unless you think guidance counselors infringe on the free will of students.

afterall, surely, you can accept and agree that, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth

[s]You requested that I say in one sentence not passing two lines, what is the god prerogative

I responded that, instead of one sentence, I can do it better with one word
so gave you - PRIVILEGE

Showing with one word, what "the God prerogative" is
but because of your ignorance of what the meaning of PRIVILEGE is,
you resorted to typing out, saying: "I think that sentence is better than this word which can mean anything you want it to mean".[/s]

Give me the sentence instead of all this trash. Or you don't know that privilege can mean different things. Don't be a lazy coward, teach this ignorant boy what privilege means to your own understanding. And don't bother reporting me, you have been throwing subtle insults at me and others here so don't act all hurt now.

SMH, there just isnt pleasing some people

Why would I be pleased when all you do is dodge and speak rubbish for multiple paragraphs without giving a straight answer to my questions.

You would say that, wouldnt you?
I am sorry Ruth, but there isnt any better other way
If there were, trust me Ruth, God wouldnt shy from it

There is a better way, you know it but you refuse to acknowledge it because it would cause you to admit god was incompetent. Deceiving yourself is allowed.

Ruth, I am picking up that your grievance, strongly, is about "Anything that does not involve the eternal damnation of millions"
and it seems "eternal damnation" is the focal of your outrage
Why does it bother and eat away in you?

Punishing people for finite crimes for infinity is morally wrong, especially when we humans use prisons to rehabilitate criminals, albeit imperfectly. That alone shows we are better than God, especially when you realise god and everything he does is suposed to be perfect, if so; Why can't he create a perfect rehabilitation system for sinners, and if you say blood of jesus, Why isn't it available for those in hell?

Ruth, in Bill Gates' Microsoft applications, millions of files may greatly suffer for "an ancestor's sin"
This is because new files are composed and created using default settings stored and/or saved in the "ancestor file"
but troubles can arise with the new files when the "ancestor file" gets corrupted or when it gets infected with a virus
Bottom line, when there is a blemish in a template, subsequent things made from it will suffer until when the flaw is fixed or template replaced

So you equate humans with files? Chai, nothing I won't read from you. But let me play this game. Why can't an OMNIPOTENT God just change the default settings so new files aren't corrupted? Stop limiting God, let's go wild with our imagination, nothing is impossible for him, so no solution that doesn't involve the corruption of new files is out of reach or too ridiculous.

Now look at the bright side of things, to survive, is to find some meaning in the suffering
At the end of it, we will forget the suffering
but never forget what the suffering taught, as will end being a better person

Why can't we just do away with the suffering which you may not overcome and just be created better people? Why must we find meaning in suffering and not in happiness?

[s]You're absolutely right that atheist here debate theists but it's DOA game plan.
Atheists unwittingly display the arrogance of an intellectual delighting in his own ignorances
That perfectly and/or completely, sums up who an atheist is
Argument is food for an atheist,
and why they are unashamed flock together, looking to trade in barter, for an exchange of ignorance[/s]

Ad hominem rubbish.

I clearly and without doubts, answered all questions, I did not dodge,

You dodged.

I said a whole lot

Of nothing.

but I guess you got overwhelmed under fast and furious information rubbish overload

Fixed.

Let me jolt your memory a bit,
do you remember what my "The situational problem will appear again" was in response to?

Can't the omnipotent and omniscient god come up with another way to make sure the problem doesn't arise again?

like these two jokers'

The only joke here is you and it's not even funny.

"[i]¹⁸I consider our present sufferings insignificant, compared to the glory that will soon be revealed to us.

Wow. What a sociopath.

²⁰Creation was subjected to frustration but not by its own choice.

Lol, Now I know you are confused. Haven't you guys been shouting free will uo and down, now you are saying we don't have a choice. Get out and come back with a better argument.

What planet are you on?
What do you think has been happening and/or is happening all along?

A gross incompetence.

MuttleyLaff:
Do you see how dishonest, insecure, ridiculous and ludicrous you sound with this absurd and bizarre scenario

What has "why did u beat that kid" got to do with "Why didnt God kill Satan from the onset?"
Even if, I am to play along with your weak and useless scenario, please tell me:
1/ Who are you, what are you to John and the kid?
2/ Is John sovereign?
3/ Does John have the "God prerogative"?

Typical of the frank317 I am increasingly becoming to better know,
you in a careless and unwise way have hastily concluded without due careful consideration of all the facts, that John is mentally unstable.

I hope the fictitious John sues the pants off you, in an imaginary court of law

Sorry I overrated ur intelligence.
Was actually just showing u how unreasonable ur answers are.

You're just being plain resentful
and trying to console yourself into a false sense of security

Ok

You havent the stamina.
Asides your lack of stamina, biblical illiteracy and extreme ignorance, one of your other main challenges is information overload
You cant handle biblical knowledge and/or information
Too much of it, does a flying swoosh, over your head.

I hear

Silence, as in, not writing anything at all, is better than reading this pitiful temper tantrums and emotional outburst.

Lol... How old are u?

I have given you few reasonable answers to start with
but the truth doesn't fit your agenda

No, It doesn't make sense to me.

You've got more jokes, right?
That has to be a joke and lazy assumption, to say that satan is crawling under God's skin

Have you not yet read the memo that Satan will get his comeuppance in the end,
Now that you know, I suggest you mind your own business and begin worrying about yourself or destiny

Yawns

Killing Satan from the onset doesn't and wouldn't solve the situational problem because it will
on scene appear again

Ya... Killing his son instead will solve the problem. Tell me why have ur God not solved the problem yet. I think ur God is enjoying having Satan around.

It has to be ignorance that makes someone make such a laughable comment like this

I repeat... U can never answer the question. Stop wasting your time trying. Ur answers are making ur God dumb.

The more you try to look at the answer(s), the less you see and none the wiser you are.

Lol

LordReed:


LMFAO! Oh my days. I am so shaking with laughter I'll let the dictionary do the talking.

B1 [ T ] informal If you say you bet (someone) that something is true or will happen, you mean you are certain that it is true or will happen:

[ + (that) ] I bet you (that) she's missed the bus.
I bet (that) he won't come.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bet

I'm glad that you can be amused. It does appear to come easily to you though.

About the dictionary, these are also from the same link (I'll explain in short order why I think it is necessary to point them out):

"to risk money on the result of an event or a competition, such as a horse race, in the hope of winning more money"

"a guess or opinion"

There are others but for the most part, they are just variations on these three definitions including the one you gave.

Now, given that there are other meanings that might better fit the syntax in your statement, I would like you to confirm to me that you are saying that:

Job suffered because of a certainty that either God or Satan or maybe both had.

That is, you object to Job's having to suffer anything because of a a certainty that God or Satan or both had. Is that correct?

LordReed:
LoL! Apparently its you who doesn't understand the meaning of words and needs to look up the meaning of lie. Or maybe its conjecture you need to understand.

I am not sure that I understand the above. Are you denying that the statements I copy-pasted from your comments are lies? Or, are you claiming that they are conjectures and should therefore not be admissible as lies?

LordReed:
All of it makes no sense.

Here's the problem. Anyone can call any statement or argument a word salad. While indeed it may be true that such a statement or argument is incomprehensible as a result of some failure or deliberate mischief on the part of the author of that statement or argument, it is also within reason to consider that the protesting opponent either just does not understand a perfectly comprehensible statement or is only falsely claiming not to understand it.

So, it is not necessarily my fault that my argument made no sense to you. I will rephrase that argument here in the hopes that this time it will make sense and in case it is true that I was not as clear as I intended to be at first.

This was what I said the first time:

"Hypocrisy: you accuse me of making up stories to fill plot holes in the Bible but you have no problem spending years going to school to learn about the world around you. Why is it not equally intuitive for you as you demand that the Bible must be for everybody?"

This is my rephrasing:

It is hypocrisy on your part to expect the Bible to be intuitive so that it should take no specialized tutoring to understand it when you have no problems spending years in school learning about the world around you. Why do you not also demand that the world around you should be equally intuitive?"

LordReed:
LoL. Such disingenuousness. So lies can have a father? Who did satan impregnate to give birth to lies? LoL you explained the meaning of the personification as an attempt to say it is not a personification, do you even know what you are writing? Maybe look up the difference between personification and anthropomorphism.

I see what you mean. I can accept "father of lies" as a personification and as an anthropomorphism. Why did you speak of a difference between the two? What is the relevance here?

However, there is no reason discernible to me here why Satan is therefore the personification of evil. "Father of..." is a metaphor for "originator of..." or "champion of...". It is never used as an identification with the object that follows. So, Satan may have been the first to believe in a lie and to persuade others to do the same. He may be the champion of lies of all hues and shades. He is all these things. But himself is not a lie. We create our own lies, sometimes without his instigation. We adopt lies that suit our desires sometimes without his input. Every being with a free will possesses the same ability that Satan had and which he put to the wrong use: the ability to decide what to believe and therefore what to be. Therefore, each one is not only perfectly able to but, apart from the elect angels, every single being with a free will has invented and believed lies of their own choosing.

So, while, Satan is most certainly "the evil one" and leader of "the kingdom of darkness", it is not necessarily right to say that he personifies evil any more than the rest of us do except, as I already said, in the sense that he was the first to sin and is the the major external instigator and motivator of all wrongdoing.

So, again, the Bible does not regard Satan as the personification of evil. It treats him as a rebel and the instigator of rebellion in God's Creation but also as a subject to God's Sovereign Rule.

LordReed:
LoL. I don't even know where to begin with this kooky explanation. Satan rebelled but is somehow still given responsibilities, like do you even know the meaning of cognitive dissonance? More and more it seems you have need of a dictionary.

I'm not sure what your difficulty with this is. Especially given that my argument is that God has not "executed" Satan all this time so that he can be man's test. So, his very continued existence outside of the Lake of Fire since the Judgment of the first universe has been because God had a job for him to do. That is what I have argued. And why not? Satan is not God's Match, not by a long shot. So he doesn't even qualify to be called God's Enemy. All of his posturing and interfering only serves to further God's Eternal Plan.

Now, more immediate to the question is the fact that when Adam sinned, he perforce handed over significant authority over the planet Earth to Satan. He was God's Steward over the planet until he joined Satan's rebellion. So, where man would have been responsible to account to God for the Earth, it became Satan's responsibility to do so, at least in a sense. As I already said, even the corrupted Earth is still part of God's dominion so whoever exercises authority over it answers to Him still. This is why Satan must answer God's Summons every time it goes out. He does not have the power to refuse it.

LordReed:
LoL. When I use the metaphor "everlasting bus pass" what do you think it means? I think you need a refresher course in figure of speech.

As I already said, a pass implies that Satan actually wants to go to Heaven. He does not. The Awesome, Naked Presence of God is in Heaven. Going there is taking an incredible risk on Satan's part. It is not that God is afraid of sin or evil that He runs from it, rather it is that rebellion against God cannot stand before God. Every time that Satan shows up in Heaven, he must necessarily do so because he is summoned and when he arrives, he cannot ignore his inferiority and subservience to God's Will. His inflated sense of self-importance cannot stand with him when he is in the assembly. This is why he must seek permission for all activities against believers to try to prove his position to the other angels. As far as I know from the Bible, Heaven is not a pleasant place for Satan to be, not with his arrogant self-delusion anyway, so he wouldn't want a pass of any kind to grant him access there. His rebellion was about trying to exclude God from His Creation, after all.

Then, from God's Own Side, Satan would already be in the Lake of Fire if it were not for God's Grace that has provided a use for him. Through his activities, God is demonstrating to both angels and men how loving, patient, kind and wise and powerful He is. For example, you are angry that God would allow man to suffer for 6000 years when He could end it all before it even began. But then, the correct angle is this: God need not tolerate man's insolence for a second, much less 6000 years now, but He has tolerated it for 6000 years and will tolerate it for another thousand before He brings all rebellion to an end. That shows His immense Patience with His Children rather than the ineptitude you prefer to accuse Him of.

LordReed:
Such cards don't come out until frustration sets in because you can't persuade "the unbelievers" to see your point of view on your fairytale. Don't worry though, we take it as part of the fairytale, nothing spoil.

Not that I expect you to take my word for it, but it is entirely your choice whether you will believe in Jesus Christ, Son of God and Son of Man, Savior and God, or not. I am under no illusions that I can make that choice for you or force you to make it. My bit here is to make sure that the record about the Bible's true position is kept straight. So, it does not agitate me that you continue to present arrogant hifalutin arguments and nonarguments that are all essentially false.

tamethem:


Yes you seem to be somehow right but what I am driving at is for the Op to get to know that his Pastor is incompetent not until that question by the little girl shows that he himself is not so sound spiritually. I can't attend more than two services before knowing the quality of the man preaching in front of me. In fact he has to know more than I do spiritually, and once I see that his teaching is below standard, don't expect me next Sunday. I will rather stay home and listen to sermons on the Radio.

I was in SA sometime, I was supposed to spend a month , so On the first Sunday I asked at the hotel where a church is around someone said its like one is across the road not too far from the hotel I stayed I was very glad. When this young Ghanaian pastor would start sermon it was like someone in the children department of my church addressing the children I was like what is this?

The next Sunday I attended the same Church and this time around it was worse. This young man was just boasting. How he felt when he first made his first 1 million Rands, the kind of sleek car he dreams to buy that is called MOG. it was later translated as Oh My God by him. He kept boasting about money richies till the end. Do u know what I did the next Monday? I asked and asked until I got the address of the nearest Winners. The next Sunday I went there straight, when it was time for sermon the moment it started I said thank you Jesus. You will know that this is a sermon.

Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

I do understand you, I believe. I just think that this was the OP's way of testing the teacher in his own experience. And that is allowed.

Everyone stop!! This is the real reason satan isn't dead yet.

#copied from mynews24 bible study for atheists

Since the beginning of time (as it would seem) humankind has been plagued by the devil. Adam and Eve were still frolicking in The Garden of Eden when this evil fiend showed up to spoil everything for billions of human beings.

Humanity is fascinated with the devil...and Christians even more so! Songs are sung about him, books are written about him, sermons are preached on his origins and evil tricks, and even Jesus himself talks about him and duels with him in the desert. I am convinced more movies have been made about the devil than “the other guy”!

The devil is feared and...dare I say...respected? Christians prefer not to even talk about him, as talking about him apparently makes him stronger. He must already be extremely powerful, as even the Son of God has to pass a test devised by the devil to prove he (Jesus) is indeed who he claims to be (Matt 4:1 – 11).

WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE ABOUT THE DEVIL

Please note that whatever you read now is what is generally taught in Christian churches and is believed by the majority of Christians, with minor variations. There are some “more enlightened” Christian groups that do not believe this.

According to Christians, the devil started out as Lucifer, an archangel created by God. He was perfect in wisdom and beauty, and according to the way Christians read and interpret the bible, he was adorned with all sorts of precious stones. It is even believed he had a beautiful voice with musical instruments built into his body (Ezekiel 28:12-15). He was one of three archangels mentioned in the bible by name (Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer).

Lucifer then got filled with vanity and pride, and started to have his eye on the throne of God (Ezekiel 28:17, Isaiah 14:13, 14). He deceived a third of all the angels to assist him in kicking God off the throne. This led to a massive war in heaven, with Michael (the war angel) and his angels gallantly defending the throne of God (Revelation 12:7-9). Lucifer was defeated, kicked out of heaven and fell to earth (Isaiah 14:12, Luke 10:18), along with the angels he deceived. Lucifer then became Satan, and the angels that fell with him became demons (Revelation 12:7-9).

Being absolutely devastated by this incident, God decided to create humans (Gen 1:26), apparently to replace his worship angels. The sole duty of man would then be to serve God and worship him (Eccl 12:13). Upon hearing this, Lucifer (now Satan) got really ticked off and decided to “get back at God” and seduce mankind. While posing as a serpent, the devil deceived the newly created humans Adam and Eve to disobey God (Gen 3:1-7).

So, upon learning of this deception, God kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden and promised to crush Satan’s head (Gen 3:8-24). Oh, and God cursed the serpent as well (Gen 3:14). Poor Adam was now supposed to work all his life to put bread on the table, and no more magic children for Eve...she would have to do it the hard way.

And thus starts a 6,000 year old war between humans and the devil, with God on the side of the humans (of course).

According to Christian beliefs, God gave the earth to man in Genesis 1:28. Through the sin and disobedience of Adam and Eve, they in turn gave the earth to the devil. The devil is now in charge of the earth and has full run of the place, doing as he pleases. God has no dominion over the earth, as he gave it to humans who then gave it to the devil. Even Jesus SEEMS to acknowledge this fact in Matt 4:8-10 - Again, the devil took Him up on a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them. And he said to Him, These things, all taken together, I will give You, if You will prostrate Yourself before me and do homage and worship me. Then Jesus said to him, Begone, Satan! For it has been written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him alone shall you serve. Jesus never tells Satan he is a liar, he just quotes a bible verse about worship.

Some Christians think the devil to be a very handsome, charming fellow...a master of deception. Others think of him as half man half goat, with big horns, a pointy tail and a pitch fork. All round, though, he is regarded as a nasty piece of work, bent on destroying all humans.

So, time to expose a few lies here.

LIE NO 1: THE DEVIL WAS ONCE AN ANGEL CALLED LUCIFER

The bible only mentions THREE angels by name:

Michael: The protector of Israel. He leads the war in heaven against Satan (Revelation 12:7-9), acted as a messenger to Daniel (Daniel 10:13), and argued with the devil over the body of Moses (Jude 1:9).

Gabriel: The official messenger of God. Mainly responsible for delivering personalized messages from God to various people (Dan 8:15-26, Dan 9:21, Luke 1:19, Luke 1:26)

Abaddon: The angel of the bottomless pit, and the king of the hordes that will torment mankind for 5 months (Rev 9:3-11).

Not once is Lucifer ever mentioned by name as an angel. In fact, the word Lucifer is mentioned only ONCE in the ENTIRE bible:

Isaiah 14:12 - How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

The Hebrew word translated Lucifer is helel (or heylel), from the root, hâlâl, meaning "to shine" or "to bear light".

So, who is this “bright, shining one”? Well, in verse 4 it clearly states: “You shall take up this against the king of Babylon...”

No devil here. This verse simply refers to the super arrogant king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon being knocked off his throne.

LIE NO 2: THE DEVIL WAS A (NAMELESS) COVERING ANGEL THAT WENT NUTS

Ezekiel 28: 12-17 - Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God: You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you.

Who is this prophecy for? The king of Tyre, of course!

Eden? How could the king of Tyre be in Eden? Well, he wasn’t there physically. “Eden”, “the garden” and “the holy mountain” are all symbols of “paradise”...a place where man was in charge of everything...a place before “the fall of man”...a place of human perfection and dominance. This king was awesome and powerful, but the implication is that everything he accomplished was from God. The iniquity found in him was his pride. The king of Tyre was a man...not an angel.

No devil here either! Just another king being kicked off his throne due to his arrogance.

LIE NO 3: THE WAR IN HEAVEN

Revelation 12:7 - Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels went forth to battle with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought.

To expose this lie, I quickly have to (once again) include the opening verse of the book of revelation:

Revelation 1:1 - This is the revelation of Jesus Christ. God gave it to Him to disclose and make known to His bond servants certain things which must shortly and speedily come to pass in their entirety. And He sent and communicated it through His angel to His bond servant John,

Whatever is written in the book of Revelation must STILL HAPPEN. This is not a description of something that happened in the past. This is a prophecy of FUTURE events. This war must still take place!

No devil here either!

OK, so it would appear as though the whole Christian fantasy of this “fallen angel becoming the devil” is based (once again) on mistranslation of words and misinterpreting scripture. Christians perceive the devil as an evil monster going around with his army of demons, with one thing on his mind: to destroy humans. I will say this exact sentence again later...watch out for it.

WILL THE TRUE DEVIL PLEASE STAND UP?

Now here is an interesting titbit:

The devil is NEVER mentioned in the Old Testament...not once. You see, the Hebrew word “satan” is translated as “Satan” or “The Devil”, but the word “satan” does not mean “devil”. It means “adversary” or “opponent”.

And guess what?

The devil is NEVER mentioned in the New Testament EITHER! Not once! You see, in the New Testament the “adversary” gets a new name. Diabolos! The Greek word “dee-ab'-ol-os” means “to accuse or slander”. He is ALSO called “satanas”, with the exact same meaning as the “diabolos”...”accuser”. My Hebrew/Greek concordance says that I should also check the Hebrew word “satan” wherever I read the word “diabolos” or “satanas”. So, in essence, it is the SAME word...same description...same character. It would appear as though, purely based on his name, the devil is actually an “adversary” or an “accuser”, not a pitch fork wielding monster.

Try to read your bible with this in mind. Every time you see the word “satan” or “devil”, replace it with the word “adversary”. A whole new world will open up for you.

A quick rewind to LIE NO 2 - according to what Christians believe, the devil was a perfect creation until he corrupted himself and became evil. So, as the final nail in THAT coffin, I would like to offer the following verse:

John 8:44 (AMP) - You are of your father, the devil, and it is your will to practice the lusts and gratify the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar and the father of lies and of all that is false.

Let me quickly rip this verse apart to show exactly what Jesus meant when he spoke here.

“You are like your father the accuser...he was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING and does not stand in the truth, because THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM”.

See, according to Christian belief, Lucifer was a PERFECT being...“the seal of perfection” (Ezek 28:14), who then corrupted himself through his vanity, but this is simply not true. He started out as a liar and a murderer. Nothing changed in him. And here, of course, is the clincher: “When he speaks a falsehood, he speaks what is natural to him”. It is his nature to lie. He was this way FROM THE BEGINNING!

So now I guess you are thoroughly confused. It is quite obvious that the devil never created the sin in him, nor was he a fallen angel. He was evil “from the beginning”. But then where does he come from?

God created him of course! IN THE BEGINNING!

And where do I get this?

Isaiah 45:7 (AMP) - I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and I create EVIL; I am the Lord, Who does all these things.

Here God admits that HE CREATES EVIL. Wow, what a shocker!

Well, what did you expect? Don’t Christians claim God created [/b]EVERYTHING? Well, everything INCLUDES evil![/b] The devil did not CREATE evil or lies! If Christians believe their own theology, then the devil cannot create ANYTHING! Only their God can! It is clearly stated in John 8:44 that “he was a murderer and a liar FROM THE BEGINNING”. God created the devil to lie and to kill! The devil is an instrument in the hands of God!

Bet you thought the devil kills people, makes people ill and hurts people? No, no, sorry my friends. It is clearly written in the bible:

Deuteronomy 32:39 - (AMP) - See now that I, I am He, and there is no god beside Me; I kill and I make alive, I wound and I heal, and there is none who can deliver out of My hand.

You see, the devil is merely an extension of...let’s call it “the dark side”...of God. God decides who lives and who dies, who stays well and who falls ill; He creates and He destroys. He doesn’t always do the destruction himself. He created “satan” as a tool...a destroyer to do his dirty work for him.

And where do I get this?

Isaiah 54:16 (AMP) - Behold, I have created the smith who blows on the fire of coals and who produces a weapon for its purpose; and I have created the devastator to destroy.

Christians perceive the devil as an evil monster going around with his army of demons, with one thing on his mind: to destroy humans. The truth is - the devil is under direct command and instruction from the God that created him. He was created for a single purpose...to destroy. If you are ill, it is God who makes you ill (Deut 32:39). If you die, it was God who killed you (Deut 32:39). The devil is just the hammer that drives the nail into your coffin.

God swings the hammer.

frank317:

Listen to urself. What kind of word salad is this? "God created a perfect word he wanted to remain perfect which he knew would not" does this even make sense?
What's perfect about a word that cannot remain perfect? That means God was not capable of keeping his perfect world perfect. God wanted something he knew he couldn't get? Eyaa...Lol.
OK so he made preparation knowing his perfect world will not be perfect.
So is he preparation not for jesus to die? So why do u act as if I don't get ur when I said he asked Jesus to prepare for death in 4000 years time...
Is the punishment of those who disbelieve not part of his preparation?
How does ur explanation above make ur God more greater and reasonable than any man on earth... Even my six year old niece will have a better plan.

Your first statement about a perfect world that cannot stay perfect is weird. It's just like saying that a car that was built to be good was never good just because it went bad from use. If you abuse anything that you possess the ability to abuse, then it will only deteriorate in quality. So, God's Perfect World could be corrupted because the Stewards He entrusted it to possessed both the ability and desire to corrupt it.

Jesus is Himself God. And Jesus Himself decided that because He loved His Creation so much, He would pay an incredible price to redeem it from the mess it descended into contrary to His Will.

Indeed, the punishment awaiting the wicked was part of the preparation.

Well, man has not succeeded at keeping himself alive indefinitely, how could he hope then to preserve Creation from eternal destruction? But God has the wisdom and the power and the desire born from His Love to do so.

frank317:
The bible said God regretted creating man.. U can go and change the word in the bible or edit it to mean what u want regret to mean.

What can I say? If you will not listen to simple reason, will I force you?

frank317:
Angel or man... Did the result change? Everything ur God creates fell apart, and the worst part was that he knew they would fall apart and made preparation... Yet all we still have is a world filled with pain, sorry, happiness, sadness, ups and down. And the devil has been doing his thing. So what did he put in place that makes any sense after knowing that the free will he was given was going to mess things up?
Is he that clueless? I still think the belief is stupid.

My concern is just that you quote me correctly. If man had been the one created first with a free will, we don't know what would have happened. But angels were and it was one of them that started everything that you are complaining about.

What I confess rather weird is that you think that it is a bad thing that God prepared for what would happen beforehand. Other human beings generally applaud foresight among themselves. Why is this something bad when God does it?

The world is the way it is because man sinned and still sins everyday. All the pain and suffering that exists comes from our sins. The creation that God made for us was perfect. Not even earthquakes, tsunamis or hail troubled us. In fact, the seasons that exist today and the harshness of the weather are a direct result of judgment upon the wickedness of human beings. So, why blame God? He shouldn't have given us a free will? If He didn't, would you be able to choose to come online and seek ways to insult Him or would I be able to choose to come online and seek ways to glorify Him?

frank317:
Your God does not exist. If he does we wouldn't have such an unorganized world.

His existence is not mutually exclusive with what you see. He is a loving God and cares for all of His creatures so, of course He wants them to have a real choice whether to love Him back and an opportunity to learn Who He is if they want to. So, free will and an environment designed to demonstrate His Attributes to them must be made available to them and they must be allowed to react as they choose in order to learn Him better. If they rebel, they must know that as loving as He is, He will not indefinitely tolerate insolence from them. If they submit lovingly to Him, they will learn that He is faithful beyond words to those who do.

frank317:
Your God does not exist... If he does then he is the most clueless God in the history of Gods.
Sorry I don't believe in eternal life and all that, so what I wrote above makes absolute no sense to me.

Likewise, your suggestion was meaningless to me. You see, we have opposite appreciations of reality.

frank317:
I'd the bible is true, than man is suffering today because he has a clueless God who knew giving man and angels free will will mess his world up but went ahead to to give to them and has been running helter skelter trying to fix him mess.

Since the Bible does not say that God "has been running helter skelter to fix him (sic) mess", I can only wonder what you mean when you say, "if the Bible is true, then...[that quote is true too]". That's what I keep telling you is a straw man fallacy. If you don't believe the Bible's actual position, then of course ignore it, argue against it, but don't keep attributing things to it that it didn't say. That is a very low thing to do to any one and don't you atheists pretend to be better than us Christians? Where have I misrepresented or misquoted your own arguments? But I keep having to correct you about mine.

frank317:
Prove what?
That ur God does not see bokoharam kill Christian?
That he is doing nothing about it?
That he is not enjoying it (the way he enjoyed devil deal with Job)
That u don't think he should do anything since its part of his love even if its ur family that is being killed.
Prove what exactly... Everything I said is based on ur response to the way he allowed Satan deal with poor Job.
U called it love and said u wouldn't mind him doing it to u... U wouldn't mind if he allows bokoharam kill ur family after all u will get over them, beside God understand that there is a greater life after death so its good he allows the devil deal with u.

"Prove what?" How are you not ashamed to ask me that? You spend responses telling me that you will prove it but you want me to answer this or confirm that you can quote this or that. Now, you don't know what it is you said you would prove. Have I said in any post or response that God enjoys having the devil possess Boko Haram and kill Christians? This is your argument and you have added another one: that God enjoyed "devil deal (sic) with Job". It is not my responsibility to defend what you claim. It is yours.

Now, do the honorable thing and defend your claims.

frank317:
Oga..I never was arguing meaning of assumption with u... I only said u shouldn't take it too seriously. I didn't know why u had to pull the dictionary. Assumptions are just mere guess works that could be right or wrong. They are not confident statements... I am not contesting meaning of assumption with u, I said don't take it seriously. Simple.

Look, you say that you are not arguing definitions with me, then you promptly offer the same definition that you have been insisting on from the beginning in the bold text. That definition is a flat-out lie. It is false and you know that it is because I offered you a dictionary definition. So, you are being mischievous here. If "assumption" does not fit what you meant to say, find another word. Don't keep arguing that the word means something that it doesn't and then turning around to attribute that meaning to my own use of the word.

frank317:
I am sorry ur God is as fake as bobrisky's hair. When ever I die is okay. I just do not wish to die soon.I am not like u that is scared of what will happen after death... U can live with that fear all ur life... I only pity u.
However i wish there is after life... Ur God need to be punished for creating such a shitty world.

It's your choice what to believe.

@the bold text, that was what I was warning you about. Nobody knows their time. That you do not wish to die soon does not mean that you won't any more than it means that you will. I don't know what will happen to you when. This is why I am telling you what I am telling you. What fear I have of what comes after death is a fear that I have for you. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ already and I am fighting everyday to grow up in Him and be made perfect like Him. So the fear I have is of standing before Him as a believer and having failed to reach full spiritual maturity and production for Him. That will not put me in the Lake of Fire but it will certainly disappoint Him. And I don't want to disappoint Him because He loves me more than anyone has ever managed to or could manage to. But what you are risking is getting thrown into the Lake of Fire for all eternity.

So, don't pity me. Worry about yourself, Frank. I am already spoken for by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and if I don't get the money, fame, women and all the other fun things of this life, I didn't lose very much.

Ihedinobi3:

It's just like saying that a car that was built to be good was never good just because it went bad from use.

What an analogy. It fails because as an omniscient being, god should have seen what would cause the world to lose it's perfection and used his omnipotent power to prevent that. Unless you are saying God chose to allow the world lose it's perfection.

If you abuse anything that you possess the ability to abuse, then it will only deteriorate in quality.

So you are saying God gave man the ability to abuse now?

Even if you say man was tempted to eat the fruit, you stil have to anwer why man was made with the quality of being temptable, why god put that tree in eden and why god allowed the serpent to tempt eve and adam.

You guys shoot yourselves in the leg with every post.

So, God's Perfect World could be corrupted because the Stewards He entrusted it to possessed both the ability and desire to corrupt it.

Who created them with the ability to corrupt it? God.

Who gave them the desire to corrupt it? No one. Nowhere in the bible is it stated adam and eve wanted to corrupt the world intentionally, so you are talking jargons.

Also god is at fault here because he could have simply forgiven them. The same god can forgive anyone, and nothing is impossible for him, so why did he not forgive them then and there?

Jesus is Himself God.

Jesus is his own father and son, what mental disorder do we call this? And why does jesus talk about the father like he's a different person?

And Jesus Himself decided that because He loved His Creation so much, He would pay an incredible price to redeem it from the mess it descended into contrary to His Will.

What stops jesus from just doing like the father of the prodigal son and just forgiving mankind, especially because we are being pynished for someone else's crime.

Well, man has not succeeded at keeping himself alive indefinitely, how could he hope then to preserve Creation from eternal destruction? But God has the wisdom and the power and the desire born from His Love to do so.

Cool, why doesn't he do it without causing the eternal damnation of billions.

What can I say? If you will not listen to simple reason, will I force you?

Simple reasoning that falls apart under close examination.

My concern is just that you quote me correctly. If man had been the one created first with a free will, we don't know what would have happened. But angels were and it was one of them that started everything that you are complaining about.

And why is everyone dragged into one guy's mess? He can be dealt with singly na? Or god ain't omnipotent no more?

[/quote]What I confess rather weird is that you think that it is a bad thing that God prepared for what would happen beforehand. Other human beings generally applaud foresight among themselves.[/quote]
Foresight is necessary for we humans because we are limited in power and understanding, and as such we must plan for the unforseen.

Why is this something bad when God does it?

Because God already knows the beginning from the end and he has the power to render anything he doesn't want changed to his liking on a whim. God is unlimited in power and yet he cannot ensure that his creation has no flaws.

The world is the way it is because man sinned and still sins everyday. All the pain and suffering that exists comes from our sins.

Why didn't God already forgive us for our sins and remove the pain and suffering? If I don't have to believe in adam and eve to be damned, why do I need to believe in Jesus to be saved? Your imaginary God needs to apply the same standard to both things.

The creation that God made for us was perfect. Not even earthquakes, tsunamis or hail troubled us. In fact, the seasons that exist today and the harshness of the weather are a direct result of judgment upon the wickedness of human beings.

If god created everything and everyone perfect, where did evil come from?

So, why blame God? He shouldn't have given us a free will? If He didn't, would you be able to choose to come online and seek ways to insult Him or would I be able to choose to come online and seek ways to glorify Him?

If god cared about freewill, he would ask for our opinion on if we want to be born into this world of pain and suffering, afterall nothing is impossible for him.

His existence is not mutually exclusive with what you see. He is a loving God and cares for all of His creatures so

Yet he allows us to suffer.

of course He wants them to have a real choice whether to love Him back and an opportunity to learn Who He is if they want to. So, free will and an environment designed to demonstrate His Attributes to them must be made available to them and they must be allowed to react as they choose in order to learn Him better. If they rebel, they must know that as loving as He is, He will not indefinitely tolerate insolence from them. If they submit lovingly to Him, they will learn that He is faithful beyond words to those who do.

Why would someone listen to an authority he's only been told about by his fellow civilians and he has never seen, it's rules are rubbish and it cannot give a detailed and concise history of the land he lives in, yet claims to have created it?

Ihedinobi3:

Your first statement about a perfect world that cannot stay perfect is weird. It's just like saying that a car that was built to be good was never good just because it went bad from use. If you abuse anything that you possess the ability to abuse, then it will only deteriorate in quality. So, God's Perfect World could be corrupted because the Stewards He entrusted it to possessed both the ability and desire to corrupt it.

Jesus is Himself God. And Jesus Himself decided that because He loved His Creation so much, He would pay an incredible price to redeem it from the mess it descended into contrary to His Will.

Indeed, the punishment awaiting the wicked was part of the preparation.

Well, man has not succeeded at keeping himself alive indefinitely, how could he hope then to preserve Creation from eternal destruction? But God has the wisdom and the power and the desire born from His Love to do so.

U call something perfect u should know what that means. He should stop calling something perfect when its not. Seriously is your God human that he can never get anything right.
So he already decided Jesus was gonna come and die even before giving angels free will because according to u he already knew the effect of the free will before giving it to man. This makes no sense no matter how many times u repeat it.
Besides the world is still messy... Things really went out of his hands. Whats then the point. He sounds clueless and dumb.

What can I say? If you will not listen to simple reason, will I force you?

What's simple reason about trying to change the meaning of regret. Why don't u edit the bible and write ur own.

My concern is just that you quote me correctly. If man had been the one created first with a free will, we don't know what would have happened. But angels were and it was one of them that started everything that you are complaining about.

The whole thing boils down to God making wrong decision.

What I confess rather weird is that you think that it is a bad thing that God prepared for what would happen beforehand. Other human beings generally applaud foresight among themselves. Why is this something bad when God does it?

Its bad because the preparation didn't go well, other words the 13 years old in the OP wouldn't be askin the question. God didn't still get it right despite knowing the outcome of free will. Was he really choicless?

The world is the way it is because man sinned and still sins everyday. All the pain and suffering that exists comes from our sins. The creation that God made for us was perfect. Not even earthquakes, tsunamis or hail troubled us. In fact, the seasons that exist today and the harshness of the weather are a direct result of judgment upon the wickedness of human beings. So, why blame God? He shouldn't have given us a free will? If He didn't, would you be able to choose to come online and seek ways to insult Him or would I be able to choose to come online and seek ways to glorify Him?

Why will I not blame God? Didn't u say he knew all this will happen even before giving man freewill? That's exactly why I blame him.

His existence is not mutually exclusive with what you see. He is a loving God and cares for all of His creatures so, of course He wants them to have a real choice whether to love Him back and an opportunity to learn Who He is if they want to. So, free will and an environment designed to demonstrate His Attributes to them must be made available to them and they must be allowed to react as they choose in order to learn Him better. If they rebel, they must know that as loving as He is, He will not indefinitely tolerate insolence from them. If they submit lovingly to Him, they will learn that He is faithful beyond words to those who do.

Ya, he knew man will make wrong choice and still gave man free will expecting the same man whom he knew will make the wrong choice to make the right choice.. Do u even listen to urself? Is God daft? Are u trying to insult ur God?

Likewise, your suggestion was meaningless to me. You see, we have opposite appreciations of reality.

I am glad u know this.

Since the Bible does not say that God "has been running helter skelter to fix him (sic) mess", I can only wonder what you mean when you say, "if the Bible is true, then...[that quote is true too]". That's what I keep telling you is a straw man fallacy. If you don't believe the Bible's actual position, then of course ignore it, argue against it, but don't keep attributing things to it that it didn't say. That is a very low thing to do to any one and don't you atheists pretend to be better than us Christians? Where have I misrepresented or misquoted your own arguments? But I keep having to correct you about mine.

Are u saying God is not trying to fix things?

"Prove what?" How are you not ashamed to ask me that? You spend responses telling me that you will prove it but you want me to answer this or confirm that you can quote this or that. Now, you don't know what it is you said you would prove. Have I said in any post or response that God enjoys having the devil possess Boko Haram and kill Christians? This is your argument and you have added another one: that God enjoyed "devil deal (sic) with Job". It is not my responsibility to defend what you claim. It is yours.

Now, do the honorable thing and defend your claims.

It is already implied in ur statement. God allows devil deal with Christians exactly the way he allowed the devil kill Jobs kids. U said its love if he allows the devil kill ur children. Why will he be allowing it if he does not enjoy it?
Heck he even ask Satan "have u seen my son Job?"

Look, you say that you are not arguing definitions with me, then you promptly offer the same definition that you have been insisting on from the beginning in the bold text. That definition is a flat-out lie. It is false and you know that it is because I offered you a dictionary definition. So, you are being mischievous here. If "assumption" does not fit what you meant to say, find another word. Don't keep arguing that the word means something that it doesn't and then turning around to attribute that meaning to my own use of the word.

Whatever... Assumption is not a confident statement.

It's your choice what to believe.

Oh I am just learning this now.

@the bold text, that was what I was warning you about. Nobody knows their time. That you do not wish to die soon does not mean that you won't any more than it means that you will. I don't know what will happen to you when. This is why I am telling you what I am telling you. What fear I have of what comes after death is a fear that I have for you. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ already and I am fighting everyday to grow up in Him and be made perfect like Him. So the fear I have is of standing before Him as a believer and having failed to reach full spiritual maturity and production for Him. That will not put me in the Lake of Fire but it will certainly disappoint Him. And I don't want to disappoint Him because He loves me more than anyone has ever managed to or could manage to. But what you are risking is getting thrown into the Lake of Fire for all eternity.

Yawns... Tell me more mythical tales.

So, don't pity me. Worry about yourself, Frank. I am already spoken for by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and if I don't get the money, fame, women and all the other fun things of this life, I didn't lose very much.

Why did God not kill Satan from the onset. This is a question asked by a 13 years old after ur God supposedly prepared for what's to come upon knowing that giving angels free will will mesa things up.

RuthlessLeader:



Jesus is his own father and son, what mental disorder do we call this? And why does jesus talk about the father like he's a different person?

RuthlessLeader:
Someone doesn't understand sarcasm.

Someone doesnt want to own up they dont know what true and pure religion is, so takes refuge under the pretence of making sarcasm

RuthlessLeader:
And god is still an idiotic, narcissisitic rapist.

Slandering God, is what you're good at

RuthlessLeader:
He is a predator who leads those who are innocent into sin.
He has caused and is bringing about the damnation of billions for eternity.

Did he forcibly lead the innocent into sin?
Is he forcibly causing and bringing about the damnation of billions for eternity?

RuthlessLeader:
From the moment he came into being.
God as the omniscient God who can see all possible futures knew the danger satan posed to mankind but he chose to do nothing about it.
He could have cautioned satan and told him what he would do

What made you think He didnt caution satan and told him what he would do?
Have you forgotten that Satan has a mind of his own?
Dont you understand that Satan wouldnt be forced to do anything bar exercise his freewill?

RuthlessLeader:
He could have at least talked to satan to prevent the events of the bible,
not keep quiet and let satan sin

What made you think God never or didnt at least talk to satan to prevent the events of the bible?

RuthlessLeader:
and then have us sin...

Sin kills, if sin wasnt committed, we wouldnt be here, having this conversation Ruth

RuthlessLeader:
...and punish all of humanity for the sins of three people.

It is knowledge gaps that leads you into making spurious comments like "punish all of humanity for the sins of three people"
and is why or how I end up having to do lengthy response posts, because I am picking up, after you've made a right botched up of facts.

RuthlessLeader:
I know you will give me some half assed excuse on why God didn't try these better options.

I am more interested in stating and showing you the reality instead of giving you excuses Ruth.

RuthlessLeader:
When he was created.

OK, you say Satan was a danger when he was created
but was Satan a danger from day one of his creation?
Was Satan a danger before sin was found in him?

RuthlessLeader:
And the why is because he thought he could do a better job

Oh dear, that is treacherous and treason

RuthlessLeader:
You just say a whole lot of nothing to confuse your opponents so they forget the crux of the matter.
I wonder if this is how you behave in real life.

You turn soft work into hard work
I am always compelled to fill in the gaping holes in your arguments

RuthlessLeader:
Don't project your crew's M.O. on me.

Let me break it down for you
You do arguments because you trade in sharing ignorance
whereas I do discussions, bartering with knowledge and/or information, for exchange of the ignorance

RuthlessLeader:
The only guys who throw temper tantrums are the intolerant ones who are angry that someone doesn't worship their imaginary god.

Well, you're free to do whatever you like.
I am not mad at you nor angry with you.

RuthlessLeader:
A whole lot of nothing. Trying to appear smart but failing in the process.

Nothing to do with trying to appear smart in there.
It's a fact that, Satan, rebelling, is a by product of something else
That much if you're honest and sincere, will agree and accept is true

RuthlessLeader:
God's incompetence and negligence despite his omnipotence and omniscience.
Not creating satan, talking to satan or giving him his own universe to run would have been much better options than the stupid thing he did.

To what end or purpose will it serve, giving satan his own universe to run?
If it is that easy and cheap to create a universe and human beings, why haven't Satan, you, LordReed and frank317 not gone to do one?

RuthlessLeader:
You are either doing that or indirectly saying god was incompetent.

Ruth, I am not making it sound like God planned for satan to rebel
neither am I indirectly saying God was incompetent.

God, just as was done with Adam and Eve, gave Satan, a moment of choice.

Ruth, you cant hide from the fact that, Satan was given total freedom to be himself,
afterall, surely, you can accept and agree that, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth
It is a moment to prove oneself
C'mon now Ruth, you know about things like this

RuthlessLeader:
The fact is, counselling and advicing satan would have been a much better choice than leaving him to come to his own conclusion.
It also wouldn't infringe on his free will, unless you think guidance counselors infringe on the free will of students.

Satan, just like Adam and Eve after him, had the best of counselling and advices
This warranted that him, and/or Adam and Eve can be left to their own devices without being controlled or helped by anyone else
These arent spurious claims but are biblical facts
Here is an epiphany for Ruth you and others with similar line of reasoning like yours
1/ Satan never questioned God for creating him
2/ Adam never faulted God on how God created him

It is close and similar to, why none of frank317 characters ever question frank317
or ever try to find faults with frank317 in how he created them and their world

RuthlessLeader:
Give me the sentence instead of all this trash.
Or you don't know that privilege can mean different things.
Don't be a lazy coward, teach this ignorant boy what privilege means to your own understanding.

Privilege means a special right or advantage that only one person or group of people has

What's your birthdate?
I think I'll treat you to a something nice, like a dictionary, for your birthday

RuthlessLeader:
And don't bother reporting me,
you have been throwing subtle insults at me and others here so don't act all hurt now.

Asides not into doing arguments, I dont necessarily do reporting
I dont snitch, I let time do that, you know about the saying that, time will tell, dont you.
If I have been throwing subtle insults, I didnt start it.
I am tolerable to insults, so never hurt when I spot them,
even the veiled one slung here and there, so far on this thread,
but when the threshold scale is tipped, I can give as much as I get

RuthlessLeader:
Why would I be pleased when all you do is dodge and speak rubbish for multiple paragraphs without giving a straight answer to my questions.

You wouldnt be able to lie in bed, even if your life depended on it
Look at you lying like a persia rug.

RuthlessLeader:
There is a better way, you know it but you refuse to acknowledge it because it would cause you to admit god was incompetent. Deceiving yourself is allowed.

The better way was scorned Ruth, you know this much, it was.
Adam was given the choice between life and death.
The rest is history , its why and how we are having this conversation

RuthlessLeader:
Punishing people for finite crimes for infinity is morally wrong, especially when we humans use prisons to rehabilitate criminals, albeit imperfectly.
That alone shows we are better than God, especially when you realise god and everything he does is suposed to be perfect,
if so; Why can't he create a perfect rehabilitation system for sinners, and if you say blood of jesus,
Why isn't it available for those in hell?

Here we go again Ruth, and if I type, you'll say too much talking
but Ruth, there are so many holes of ignorance in what you've typed just now
so here is me aiming to put them right
1/ People are not punished for infinity
2/ God is above been morally wrong
3/ The earth is a perfect rehabilitation system for sinners
4/ Hell is a Greek concept, Sheol or Hades is the approprite word to use

Sheol or Hades doesn't have a rehabilitation system for sinners because you cant have your cake and eat it
There is free legal aid for any, that at the last minute, want to take advantage of it though

RuthlessLeader:
So you equate humans with files?
Chai, nothing I won't read from you.

But let me play this game.
Why can't an OMNIPOTENT God just change the default settings so new files aren't corrupted?
Stop limiting God, let's go wild with our imagination, nothing is impossible for him,
so no solution that doesn't involve the corruption of new files is out of reach or too ridiculous.

I thought you were IT software inclined, so tried presenting something I thought you would be able to relate with and so get some understanding from it

Remember I wrote:
"Bottom line, when there is a blemish in a template, subsequent things made from it will suffer until when the flaw is fixed or template replaced"

Ruth, you dont change the default settings so newly created files aren't corrupted, it's the template that is replaced and/or renamed

RuthlessLeader:
Why can't we just do away with the suffering which you may not overcome and just be created better people?

Should have thought about that first before eating of fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Sorry we've gone past that stage, besides the train has left the platform and station

RuthlessLeader:
Why must we find meaning in suffering and not in happiness?

We didnt have to find meaning in either (i.e. suffering or happiness)
but then, this goes back to Eden and eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

RuthlessLeader:
Ad hominem rubbish.

Why not for a change have the courage to face and read the truth.

RuthlessLeader:
You dodged.

Are you pratising for the christmas pantomime?

RuthlessLeader:
Of nothing.

You would say that

RuthlessLeader:
Fixed.

Truth is like the sun.
You can shut it out for a time, like you've crossed out information but it doesnt mean its gone away
It doesnt show a sign of an emotional matured person behaving that way

RuthlessLeader:
Can't the omnipotent and omniscient God come up with another way to make sure the problem doesn't arise again?

Why dont you in protest go and create your own parallel universe and your own perfect human beings

RuthlessLeader:
The only joke here is you and it's not even funny.

I admit I am not half as unfunny as you are with your lame, weak and flat jokes

RuthlessLeader:
Wow. What a sociopath.

Sociopath? What fanciful looking big word that is.
Hmm, let me not talk or say anything about it.

RuthlessLeader:
Lol, Now I know you are confused.
Haven't you guys been shouting free will up and down,
now you are saying we don't have a choice.
Get out and come back with a better argument.

Those verses were talking about you specifically

RuthlessLeader:
A gross incompetence.

I believe whatever doesn't kill you simply makes you a better and stronger
The tragedy of the Garden of Eden is what has been happening and/or is happening all along Ruth.

frank317:
Sorry I overrated ur intelligence.
Was actually just showing u how unreasonable ur answers are.

and you made a right dog's dinner of it

frank317:
Ok

Dont worry, everything will be OK in the end frank317

frank317:
I hear

I dont believe you heard

frank317:
Lol... How old are u?

Did I hit on a raw nerve?
Or you're moonlighting for the Office for National Statistics?

frank317:
No, It doesn't make sense to me.

I am not surprised
Let me pray for you. Receive! Receive it!!

frank317:
Yawns

He who wakes up early, is bound to yawn all day long

frank317:
Ya... Killing his son instead will solve the problem.

Reiterating, killing Satan from the onset the thing was found in him would not solve the matter because the situational problem will reappear on scene again like it did with Adam and Eve.

The only way God, as Jesus, could have legally died, as part of the solution to the problem,
is by being sentenced to death by the legal authority on earth, and so thereafter killed crucified on a Roman cross

frank317:
Tell me why have ur God not solved the problem yet.

Why are you in a haste?

frank317:
I think ur God is enjoying having Satan around.

You thought wrong

frank317:
I repeat... U can never answer the question.
Stop wasting your time trying.
Ur answers are making ur God dumb.

Do you know what "deja poo" is?
It is the feeling of having heard and read a crap remark like this before

frank317:
Lol

You laugh. I know and understand why.
As, saying to you, the more you try to look at the answer(s), the less you see and none the wiser you are, is truth that is stranger than fiction

MuttleyLaff:

It always has to be done on your terms, isnt it?
It always has to be your way and if not, the highway then, isnt it?

I just had to laugh, it's a bit of change from the regular,
as I havent in recent times, read such discombobulated posts, as ones, like these two jokers'

LMFAO! Apparently your addled brain doesn't understand humour. Your blatherings are boring so its necessary to enliven the place, if you don't like it report to your imaginary magic sky daddy.