God Almighty, the creator of Yahweh and Allah does not have any satan to kill. The bible story is completely false.

Ihedinobi3:
Hello.

I have given an answer to a similar question somewhere else and will edit this response later to provide the link to that discussion.

The short answer is "because of man's free will".

God created the angels and men with free will so that each individual angel and man can choose whether they want to remain part of God's Eternal Family or rebel against Him.

That meant that each individual angel and man would be tested somehow so that each one will have an opportunity to choose what they want.

The angels made their own choices before Man was created. Satan was the first one among them to decide to rebel against God and he campaigned among the angels to persuade them to join him. A third of them did and God destroyed the universe of that time with water because of their rebellion.

Then Man was created and Satan was let loose to also test man and give him an opportunity to make his own choice.

Man had 7000 years to make his choice, generation after generation. We have almost finished 6000 of those years. At the end of human history, all human beings who were ever going to be born will have made their choices.

Now, because this is a test, each person will have to prove by various experiences - in suffering and in abundance - that they are serious about what they have chosen and have no intention to change their mind.

This is why suffering and pain exists. It is a test of the true heart of every man.

At the end of human history, those who have endured in their choice of God in Jesus Christ will spend eternity with God and His Whole Family of Angels and Men with blessings that our minds right now cannot even begin to conceive. At that time too, those who rejected God in Jesus Christ will spend eternity in anguish without equal because of their rebellion against God.

That is the biblical answer.

Of course I know I'll see this blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

dalaman:


OK answer the question.

Genesis 1:2
[2]The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

2 Peter 3:5
[5]For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water

Isaiah 45:18
[18]For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the Lord, and there is none else.

Ihedinobi3:


Genesis 1:2
[2]The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

2 Peter 3:5
[5]For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water

Isaiah 45:18
[18]For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited), "I am the Lord, and there is none else.

Where does it say that the universe was destroyed with water because Satan rebelled? I can't find it anywhere in those verses.

dalaman:


Where does it say that the universe was destroyed with water because Satan rebelled? I can't find it anywhere in those verses.

Do you see that it was destroyed by water at all?

It was destroyed by water. That was the first thing you were to see.

These verses teach that Satan rebelled:

Ezekiel 28:12-19
[12]"Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
[13]"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
[14]"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15]"You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
[16]"By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
[17]"Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
[18]"By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.
[19]"All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."'"

Isaiah 14:12-14
[12]"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
[13]"But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
[14]'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'


The two sets of Scriptures put together say this:

God does not create ruin and waste. He creates perfection. But the universe before man was made was a ruin covered by frozen, dark waters. And Satan is known to have rebelled.

It only makes sense then to understand that God responded to his rebellion with a watery devastation on the material universe that existed at that time and then re-made it in order to create Man.

Do you have any other way of explaining those Bible passages together?

ihedinobi2:


Do you see that it was destroyed by water at all?

It was destroyed by water. That was the first thing you were to see.

These verses teach that Satan rebelled:

Ezekiel 28:12-19
[12]"Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God, "You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
[13]"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
[14]"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15]"You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
[16]"By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
[17]"Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.
[18]"By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.
[19]"All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever."'"

Isaiah 14:12-14
[12]"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
[13]"But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
[14]'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'


The two sets of Scriptures put together say this:

God does not create ruin and waste. He creates perfection. But the universe before man was made was a ruin covered by frozen, dark waters. And Satan is known to have rebelled.

It only makes sense then to understand that God responded to his rebellion with a watery devastation on the material universe that existed at that time and then re-made it in order to create Man.

Do you have any other way of explaining those Bible passages together?

Still can't see where it says the universe was destroyed by water because Satan rebelled. That remains your own commentary.

dalaman:


Still can't see where it says the universe was destroyed by water because Satan rebelled. That remains your own commentary.

Well, can't help you there.

Back in school, what showed you were learning was your ability to see how things added up. That you could see what things mean meant that you could solve problems you hadn't seen before by looking for familiar things that functioned in a known way and working them to produce new results.

I think that any reasoning person who isn't looking to accuse believers of lying just because they don't like what they say would already have seen what the passages say. Willful ignorance is a choice. One cannot change it for another person. So, as I said before, I can't help you there.

CAPSLOCKED:



SHE'S ONLY 13, AND ALREADY A FEW STEPS AWAY FROM ATHEISM.

exactly!
I pray she end up not becoming one by someone providing reasonable answers to her questions

Ihedinobi3:
Hello.

I have given an answer to a similar question somewhere else and will edit this response later to provide the link to that discussion.

The short answer is "because of man's free will".

God created the angels and men with free will so that each individual angel and man can choose whether they want to remain part of God's Eternal Family or rebel against Him.

That meant that each individual angel and man would be tested somehow so that each one will have an opportunity to choose what they want.

The angels made their own choices before Man was created. Satan was the first one among them to decide to rebel against God and he campaigned among the angels to persuade them to join him. A third of them did and God destroyed the universe of that time with water because of their rebellion.

Then Man was created and Satan was let loose to also test man and give him an opportunity to make his own choice.

Man had 7000 years to make his choice, generation after generation. We have almost finished 6000 of those years. At the end of human history, all human beings who were ever going to be born will have made their choices.

Now, because this is a test, each person will have to prove by various experiences - in suffering and in abundance - that they are serious about what they have chosen and have no intention to change their mind.

This is why suffering and pain exists. It is a test of the true heart of every man.

At the end of human history, those who have endured in their choice of God in Jesus Christ will spend eternity with God and His Whole Family of Angels and Men with blessings that our minds right now cannot even begin to conceive. At that time too, those who rejected God in Jesus Christ will spend eternity in anguish without equal because of their rebellion against God.

That is the biblical answer.

What kind of excuse is this for gods sake? How does this gibberish even make sense to you.

Ur mythical God created devil for the sake of drama. Devil fuq up for heaven and the best option for God was to send him down to torment innocent man. Then he even had to ask devil to help him torment poor job because God like acting like a psycho

ihedinobi2:


Well, can't help you there.

Back in school, what showed you were learning was your ability to see how things added up. That you could see what things mean meant that you could solve problems you hadn't seen before by looking for familiar things that functioned in a known way and working them to produce new results.

I think that any reasoning person who isn't looking to accuse believers of lying just because they don't like what they say would already have seen what the passages say. Willful ignorance is a choice. One cannot change it for another person. So, as I said before, I can't help you there.

U make up ur own stories and when u are questioned u start throwing accusations.

I couldn't see where the universe was destroyed with water in all ur quotes... At least u could have highlighted it for clarity sake.

U are a very dangerous person

frank317:


What kind of excuse is this for gods sake?

No kind of excuse. Just an explanation. You don't like it?

frank317:
How does this gibberish even make sense to you.

Not sure how to answer this. It doesn't read like gibberish to me at all. In fact, it makes a great deal of sense to me. Maybe you can point out what parts of it read like gibberish so that I can understand what you mean.

frank317:
Ur mythical God created devil for the sake of drama. Devil fuq up for heaven and the best option for God was to send him down to torment innocent man. Then he even had to ask devil to help him torment poor job because God like acting like a psycho

I'm not sure what the above is about. Does it have something to do with what I said?

frank317:


U make up ur own stories and when u are questioned u start throwing accusations.

I couldn't see where the universe was destroyed with water in all ur quotes... At least u could have highlighted it for clarity sake.

If you begin from the premise that I make up my own stories, isn't it logical that it would be hard for you to admit any evidence to the contrary? I may not be the problem here. I did show in my last response to dalaman how I came to the conclusions that I came to. If they weren't good enough, what difference would it make if I highlighted whole phrases and clauses and whatnot? What a person is determined to dismiss they will dismiss.

frank317:
U are a very dangerous person

I don't understand. I am dangerous because I offered an explanation for why there is pain and suffering in this world?

paxonel:
A 13 years old girl asked this question in church during bible study yesterday and the teacher could not give a satisfactory reason.
He told her that God is preserving satan for judgment day but the little girl reminded him that all the sorrows in this world would have been avoided only if satan who was the cause, and who is still causing more sorrows was killed from the beginning, then there will be no need for judgement.
The preacher could not say anything and when the girl wanted to ask another question, the teacher practically told her off and end the class, saying he is not in the mood of answering questions any longer .

Can anyone help us answer the question?

Why hasn't Batman killed Joker from the onset ?

Ihedinobi3:


Have you asked the intelligent question: "where did you get all that information"? Chances are you haven't because you don't really want to know.

How do you know that I don't want to know? And which information are you talking about?

That small pikin get sense no be small

CAPSLOCKED:



SHE'S ONLY 13, AND ALREADY A FEW STEPS AWAY FROM ATHEISM.

The foundation of the three abrahimic religion rely on this. If Satan was killed the story would have been told in a different way. Their adherents won't have a scapegoat for all their dirty deeds ,So satan dude has gotta take it all !!

Warripikin08:
How do you know that I don't want to know? And which information are you talking about?

I don't know that you don't want to know. As I actually said, it's just likely that you don't want to know since rather than ask, you just accused theists of lying about stuff.

The information is whatever it is that you believe that theists are lying about.

Now, I don't know you or what you may have read from other theists but I have put out some pretty "strange" answers on this forum to questions about the Christian Faith. I did it here even. And I have had atheists say exactly the same thing about those answers that you just did. It's an easy, very lazy avoidance of issues. Rather than do the hard work of examining arguments, the atheists prefer to accuse the theist of lying.

That is what I thought you should not do. If you think the argument made or the explanation given is a lie, well, demonstrate that it is with carefully thought out questions and counter-arguments rather than with flat out dismissals that accomplish little more than defamation of character.

Some Christians should be called wrigglers for the way they twist their Bible quotations to suit every particular agenda.
Simple question leads to long convoluted answers that lead to nothing but more confusion because they don't have the answers.
Corruption of scriptures is what I call it

DoctorAlien:
I've answered this question before. It was because destroying Satan immediately was not the best option. GOD is very wise. Satan had raised specific charges against GOD, and he accused GOD before the inhabitants of Heaven with these charges. His rebellion eventually turned into a full-blown war in Heaven. But had GOD destroyed Satan immediately despite the havoc he caused, that very act would have lent credence to the charges which Satan brought against GOD. So GOD cast Satan out of heaven, but spared him and allowed Satan to develop his intents to the fullest, so that intelligent beings can judge for themselves that he deserves to be destroyed finally. I can safely say that not voice of dissent will rise from the earth against the judgment which GOD will mete on sin and sinners, including Satan.

True, the earth is in misery today because of Satan's deceit, but surely the enormous doubt of GOD's just character that could have dominated the minds of created beings would have presented a far worse situation.

What are the charges levelled by Satan against God?

KoiceReloaded:
The bible tells us that Adam and Eve ate the forbidden apple, but what it didn't tell us is that there was only one apple tree in the whole of garden of Eden. It failed to tell us that Adam and Eve only ate the apples because they were very hungry, and the tree was the closest food source. If God can deliberately starve Adam and Eve and thus, manipulate them into disobeying him, then it's a safe bet that God never intended to kill satan at all, cuz without an opposing force, there would have been no need for people to exalt and worship him like they do now. Suffice to say, God put the letter "M" in machiavellian.

Adam and Eve didn't eat apple. The fruit you saw in the Bible is figurative, it is beyond your comprehension hence you may not understand it. God didn't starve Adam and Eve, he gave them dominion and choice to eat of every fruit in the garden of eden except one. Man knew the consequences for eating yet he disobeyed. Satan tempted man because man fell for his desire. Man lusted after that fruit because Satan deceived him. A simple instruction was given to man not to eat yet he disobeyed. Same thing is happening in our time. A father gives an instruction not to touch or use a thing, the child suddenly becomes inquisitive to find out why he was bound from touching or using a thing. The child goes as far taking from that thing just know what it is.

dalaman:
Make things up as you go is the name of the game. Christians are very dangerous liars. Imagine someone saying that God destroyed the universe of that time with water. So water was used to destroy the universe at a time. Christians are very dangerous and crazy.

The word of God can not lie ( Matt 24:35). Yes he indeed destroyed the earth with water ( Gen 9:11) and would destroy it with fire this time around (2 Peter 3:10)

asuustrike1:

What are the charges levelled by Satan against God?

Among other things, that GOD was unjust is demanding worship from created beings, and that His eternal Law(the basic tenets of which are summarized and adapted for man in the 10 Commandments) was an unnecessary restriction/limitation placed on intelligent created beings.

DoctorAlien:


Among other things, that GOD was unjust is demanding worship from created beings, and that His eternal Law(the basic tenets of which are summarized and adapted for man in the 10 Commandments) was an unnecessary restriction/limitation placed on intelligent created beings.

You are correct

DoctorAlien:


Among other things, that GOD was unjust is demanding worship from created beings, and that His eternal Law(the basic tenets of which are summarized and adapted for man in the 10 Commandments) was an unnecessary restriction/limitation placed on intelligent created beings.

Is there some Scriptural reason you have for saying this? I'm afraid it falls outside of my studies and I find it hard to credit. Could you explain why you believe this to be the case?

Ihedinobi3:

Is there some Scriptural reason you have for saying this? I'm afraid it falls outside of my studies and I find it hard to credit. Could you explain why you believe this to be the case?

The ferocity with which Satan attacks the Law of GOD and seeks to make men disregard/lose sight of it, revealed in the trend of events from creation till now, convinces me that this position is true.

DoctorAlien:


The ferocity with which Satan attacks the Law of GOD and seeks to make men disregard/lose sight of it, revealed in the trend of events from creation till now, convinces me that this position is true.

I think that I can see the appeal of that argument but it seems to me to be ignorant of the fact that in general Satan attacks everything that God stands for, that is, before there was a Law, he was still attacking something. For example, in the Garden of Eden, he convinced Eve that God was denying them of knowledge and was really powerless to carry out the judgment that He had threatened in the event of disobedience on hers and her husband's part. And when you think about it, eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is not all that similar to the Ten Commandments except in the sense that one ought not to covet what has not been given to them.

Also, the Ten Commandments address a lot of issues that are only pertinent in earthly human life. Angels don't have spouses or get married. They don't have any need or inclination to steal from each other. They don't have parents to disobey. Etc.

So, while I believe that you got the germ of the idea, I think that much may still be lacking.

Clearly, Satan must have wanted to persuade the angels to covet and try to take something that God had not given to them. Covetousness is addressed in three commandments, directly in one (the 10th) and indirectly in two others (the 7th and the 8th), so, you have a point. But what they coveted was nothing like these things addressed in those three commandments, except in a metaphorical sense.

There are two possible reasons that I can think of why demon possession was such a major theme in the gospels:

1. To demonstrate the Lord Jesus Christ's authority over such powerful beings as angels and

2. Because fallen angels actually enjoy and desire life in a physical body, themselves being spirits without physical bodies.

Satan's appearance in the Garden in the body of the snake seems to pretty much seal the idea that it was a big issue for the fallen angels to have physical bodies. It must have been important enough for them to take risks like getting thrown into the Abyss, a most unpleasant place for these beings of light, just like they worried that our Lord would in Luke 8:31.

If that worried them and yet they took the risk and even begged the Lord to allow them to take possession of the bodies of swine, having physical bodies may have caused them to be even more reckless in those early days of rebellion when there was no known punishment for their wickedness - there being none necessary before the fact. Consider this very important tidbit from our Lord too:

Matthew 12:43-45 NASB
[43]"Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.
[44]Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came'; and when it comes, it finds it unoccupied, swept, and put in order.
[45]Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation."

This is why I believe - as I was myself taught - that what Satan campaigned with was the freedom with which the angels could take physical bodies that God had "denied" them.

God is as dynamic as any personality can get, even more so, considering that He is more real than any person could possibly ever hope to be. So, it does not quite make sense that it was just one set of laws that He made that Satan campaigned against for both the angels and men. It makes more sense that their own reality would have been substantively different than ours just as each person's is actually remarkably different from the next person's. Adam and Eve were tempted with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. The Hebrews were tempted with breaking the Mosaic Law in one form or another. We are tempted with all sorts of things in one form or the other ourselves today. Satan did not need to attack just one set of laws throughout the ages past and through human history. No, he has to deal with a constantly changing board. But he was the wisest creature God made so he has always shaped his lie to fit the particular set of circumstances that he is getting into.

So, the angels were tempted not with breaking anything like the Ten Commandments but with seeking something that God had not given to them.

It is good also to remember both that the angels were created a vast deal smarter than mankind and lots more powerful, so consider that all they may have needed was a reason and they would have created opportunities to sin against God whereas man is unlikely ever to have thought of disobeying God without Satan's input at the Garden. So, as curious (which is a very strong sign of intelligence) as they were about the physical life that they governed on the Lord's behalf (compare Eph 3:10), Satan only needed to fan their normal, righteous interest and curiosity into raging lust so that from observing, they would want to actually become what they were observing.

Thus, they began to take possession of the animal bodies that were in the universe of that time and eventually began to experiment to create bodies of their own, thereby producing the strange fossil record we have been discovering for some time now. This was how they fouled up the perfect universe of that time and why God destroyed the whole universe with water. It was to kill the abominations that they made (compare what happens later in Gen 6 when the angels again try something similar with the production of the Nephilim).

Edit 1: I'll add that with their intelligence, it would have been very hard to sway them with arguments that God was unjust to demand worship of them (as evidenced in James 2:19). The only angel that the Bible records as desiring God's Place and wordhip is Satan. The others probably were too afraid to even think such a thing but Satan was second-in-command to God Himself. He was the Guardian Cherub. He was the smartest, brightest and most beautiful of them all. Such things go to the heads of all intelligent beings and they went to his when he began to look at himself the wrong way.

So it may not be wise to argue that there was any concern among the angels apart from in Satan himself whether God should be worshipped or not. That would only have arisen from their lust to possess something that God had not given to them. Since such lust would have made them arrogant and they would have, knowingly or not, decided that they were as good as God to know what was good for them and what wasn't and therefore attempt to pursue a destiny independent of God. In that way, they would have by their actions denied God His due worship and claimed it for themselves even if they did not do it cognitively like Satan did.

Edit 2: I think it is important also (as I earlier hinted) to note how God's demands tend to change in complexity. In human history, Adam and Eve had only one command in the Garden of Eden: "don't eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". After that, it was just the human conscience that guided humanity until Israel was called out by God and given the complex Mosaic Tradition. Then after that came the Lord Jesus with the Holy Spirit where the commands are less an external obligation like the Mosaic Law and the Eden command were and more of an external expression of an inward desire.

What this should lead us to conclude is that before sin came into existence through the action of Satan's free will, God deliberately let the angels do pretty much what they wanted. There was no external code to which they needed to adhere. It was natural for them to do righteousness. That only changed when the smartest one among them decided that he didn't want to guard God's Throne anymore, rather he wanted to sit in it as God too.

dalaman:
Make things up as you go is the name of the game. Christians are very dangerous liars. Imagine someone saying that God destroyed the universe of that time with water. So water was used to destroy the universe at a time. Christians are very dangerous and crazy.

LOL.

This Guy you harsh o.

The guy had probably wanted to write earth, but Universe came into his hands. LOL.

truthislight:



LOL.

This Guy you harsh o.

The guy had probably wanted to write earth, but Universe came into his hands. LOL.

The guy wanted to write "universe" and did.

frank317:


U make up ur own stories and when u are questioned u start throwing accusations.

I couldn't see where the universe was destroyed with water in all ur quotes... At least u could have highlighted it for clarity sake.

U are a very dangerous person

Cho! nairaland Atheist are harsh.

Ihedinobi3:


The guy wanted to write "universe" and did.

Ihedinobi

Long time.

OK o, If that was what you wanted to ask.

One wonders the Ark of Noah on the water where that was.

Any way, enjoy.

Because god and Satan are one and the same - same positive and negative polarities of energy that is in us.

truthislight:


Ihedinobi

Long time.

OK o, If that was what you wanted to ask.

One wonders the Ark of Noah on the water where that was.

Any way, enjoy.

Yes, it has been some time, truthislight. How have you been, friend?

I think the question is obvious. I was not claiming that there was no global flood. I was saying that I was referring to another deluge. There were two. One happened and covered all of material creation before man was made (Gen 1:2) and the second covered only the Earth (Gen 7:24).

asuustrike1:

The word of God can not lie ( Matt 24:35). Yes he indeed destroyed the earth with water ( Gen 9:11) and would destroy it with fire this time around (2 Peter 3:10)

If the bible is the word if God you are referring to, then the word of your God is nothing but lies, fables, mythology and fiction.