Ihedinobi3:

Straw man fallacy. Ad hominem fallacy.

I can only tell u how wack ur mental state is based on the arguments u come up with on this forum. I hope its not as bad as u are making urself seem.

Finally, an argument.

When you account for free will, then He never lost control. Granted that sin was not His Will, He knew that it would happen once He gave the angels a free will. This is why He made provisions for fixing the damage that would result from sin. That was the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ which redeemed Man and healed the damage in Creation and guaranteed the Eternal Family of God.

So, nothing ever got out of God's Control. He had a Plan from before creation and it is progressing exactly as He intended.

He knew what will happen if he gave angels free will, and he was like... "Jesus, prep urself... I am gonna sacrifice u in 2000years time because of this free will I am gonna give angels today...I am also going to curse humans, destroy the earth with water and create hell fire where Angels disobedient people will burn in millions of years time because of this free will I am gonna give angels today.
I am sure more reasonable enough angel muttered " WHAT THE FUQ"

Make an argument. This is not one.

Its a question now... Will it be a good thing if God allows Satan to kill all ur family? (Afterall u will get over it)

Quite true, we were created to desire pleasure and joy, not pain and sorrow. This is true. But the whole point of human history is to demonstrate that true Pleasure and true Joy or Happiness are only found in God, not in our own hifalutin notions about reality.

Whatever the whole point of human history is, it does not deny the fact that humans strive to avoid pain... Something ur God should bear in mind when allowing Satan to destroy the family of his followers... So stop telling me God knows physical pain is not what it looks like from his side and so he can decide to allow the devil inflict on people like Job with pain. Its unreasonable... Its something he know can affect humans and humans hate it... Its never fair that he allows it.

Where is your proof that He does?

I will give u the prove... But before then, are u saying God does not see the attacks of bokoharam?

I think you are completely missing the meaning of assumptions. An assumption may be true or false but it is a belief:

Assumption: something that you accept as true without question or proof

Source: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/assumption?q=Assumption

Oga stop talking assumptions too serious.. They are called assumptions for a reason

As I said, the very word itself implies confidence. You don't have the wiggle room that you think you do here.

And I have said that my words about u are mere assumptions... Assumptions don't imply confidence. If anything, assumptions implies uncertainties

As for sounding like a mad man, have I not said that plenty enough times? Christianity and Atheism are opposite realities. You think Christianity is insane. I think Atheism is insane. There is no reconciliation possible. So, I don't know what we have debates for. The reason I engage you and your cohorts is that I won't let you misrepresent the truth about the Bible or the Christian Faith for whatever reason it is that has you hounding Christians all the time.

I am judging from the things coming from u here bro... Its crazy.

You can never convince a mad man of his insanity so I know that you are wasting your time trying to persuade me of the "error of my ways". As much as I want you to be saved, on the other hand, I don't expect my arguments to be what makes that happen because I expect them to sound like the raving of a mad man to you.

Ya right... Have fun. At least I have the right to tell it to ur face that u sound crazy.

OMFG! The irony of asking an atheist to prove a non existent god has emotions. I am totally collapsed into a laughing ball right now, LMFAO!

LordReed:
OMFG! The irony of asking an atheist to prove a non existent god has emotions. I am totally collapsed into a laughing ball right now, LMFAO!

To me the question was actually coming someone who has lost it

frank317:

I can only tell u how wack ur mental state is based on the arguments u come up with on this forum. I hope its not as bad as u are making urself seem.

Ad hominem fallacy.

frank317:
He knew what will happen if he gave angels free will, and he was like... "Jesus, prep urself... I am gonna sacrifice u in 2000years time because of this free will I am gonna give angels today...I am also going to curse humans, destroy the earth with water and create hell fire where Angels disobedient people will burn in millions of years time because of this free will I am gonna give angels today.
I am sure more reasonable enough angel muttered " WHAT THE FUQ"

I doubt that any angel was there when God made His Plan. But as for the above, the Lord Jesus is God. This was His Plan too. I am not sure where the part about cursing humans comes from. And I don't know that eternity is millions of years. Otherwise, you pretty much got the idea.

Edit: it was 4000 years from the beginning of human history, not 2000.

frank317:
Its a question now... Will it be a good thing if God allows Satan to kill all ur family? (Afterall u will get over it)

I thought that I already answered. Everything that God does is good. It may hurt in the interim but He will heal the hurt in the end for everyone who waits on Him.

frank317:
Whatever the whole point of human history is, it does not deny the fact that humans strive to avoid pain... Something ur God should bear in mind when allowing Satan to destroy the family of his followers... So stop telling me God knows physical pain is not what it looks like from his side and so he can decide to allow the devil inflict on people like Job with pain. Its unreasonable... Its something he know can affect humans and humans hate it... Its never fair that he allows it.

Considering that the whole point of human history is to give man a chance to make a choice about God and to prove Satan a liar, suffering and pain is necessary. Man has to demonstrate that he finds God of greater value than his own emotional and physical comfort. This is the only way that it can be known that he wants to be part of God's Eternal Family. So, while indeed God recognizes that we hate pain and suffering, and while indeed it is not at all a thing He enjoys that His creatures should suffer, He has ordained that Man must be subjected to pain and suffering so that his own choice will be known.

And God has also provided every comfort necessary in this life to enable the man who suffers to bear his suffering in this life. If God is embraced in faith, He Himself will comfort the believer and bring him steadily to the Day when He will heal all the pain and reverse all the suffering and substitute in its place blessing to an infinite degree.

frank317:
I will give u the prove... But before then, are u saying God does not see the attacks of bokoharam?

I will look forward to it.

I am saying no such thing. I just asked you to prove a claim you made. Do you consider the occurrence of those attacks proof of your claim?

frank317:
Oga stop talking assumptions too serious.. They are called assumptions for a reason


And I have said that my words about u are mere assumptions... Assumptions don't imply confidence. If anything, assumptions implies uncertainties

Your argument is with the dictionary.

frank317:
I am judging from the things coming from u here bro... Its crazy.


Ya right... Have fun. At least I have the right to tell it to ur face that u sound crazy.

Yeah, I totally understand. I believe that you are crazy too to be an atheist.

LordReed:
OMFG! The irony of asking an atheist to prove a non existent god has emotions. I am totally collapsed into a laughing ball right now, LMFAO!

Wow! You run away and then come back to take a shot at me for asking an opponent to prove a claim he made? Na wa.

Ihedinobi3:

Wow! You run away and then come back to take a shot at me for asking an opponent to prove a claim he made? Na wa.

LoL! Run away from illogical statements? Maybe, to save my sanity but they form a good source of entertainment so it makes for good snacking. LMFAO!

LordReed:


LoL! Run away from illogical statements? Maybe, to save my sanity but they form a good source of entertainment so it makes for good snacking. LMFAO!

Oh. Thanks for confirming.

Ihedinobi3:

Oh. Thanks for confirming.

You are welcome but please keep writing illogical statements they are quite entertaining.

Ihedinobi3:

Oh. Thanks for confirming.

You typed that god treatment of job is justified and necessary. How insensitive.

Martinez19:
You typed that god treatment of job is justified and necessary. How insensitive.

But you're an atheist. Why wouldn't you think it is?

You believe that there is nothing more than the material. I believe that the material is only one part of reality, that there is also the spiritual and that God is all-powerful and can completely reverse every pain we may suffer in faithfulness to Him.

So, how could we possibly see eye to eye on this?

Ihedinobi3:

Ad hominem fallacy.

U can say that again but that does not change the fact that what I summarized about ur belief shows how shitty ur belief is.

I doubt that any angel was there when God made His Plan. But as for the above, the Lord Jesus is God. This was His Plan too. I am not sure where the part about cursing humans comes from. And I don't know that eternity is millions of years. Otherwise, you pretty much got the idea.

Weather an angel was there or not does not change the fact that it clearly implied how ur God behaves when u admit that he knew giving man free will would mess things up and he began early enough to prepare Jesus doe sacrifice, and prepared to curse Adam and Eve and even prepared to destroy the earth with water and prepared hell. Yuck what a fuqed up thing to believe.

Edit: it was 4000 years from the beginning of human history, not 2000.

So? How does this imply that Yahweh knowing free will will mess things up and preparing Jesus for sacrifice being his best option does not make him sound psychotic?

I thought that I already answered. Everything that God does is good. It may hurt in the interim but He will heal the hurt in the end for everyone who waits on Him.

So I can quote u any where... If God allows Satan to kill ur family, it is very Good. If God allows bokoharam to kill ur family it is very good.
Can I also quote this as christian believe.
If u don't understand why I think u have mental problem by now, then I will not blame u.

Considering that the whole point of human history is to give man a chance to make a choice about God and to prove Satan a liar, suffering and pain is necessary. Man has to demonstrate that he finds God of greater value than his own emotional and physical comfort. This is the only way that it can be known that he wants to be part of God's Eternal Family. So, while indeed God recognizes that we hate pain and suffering, and while indeed it is not at all a thing He enjoys that His creatures should suffer, He has ordained that Man must be subjected to pain and suffering so that his own choice will be known.

Since u know pain and suffering is necessary why do u avoid it. Are u not going against ur God will whennu avoid pain and even pray he helps u minimize pain.
Its funny how u guys talk when u argue. U guys spend ur whole life asking God for a better and life filled with less or no pain. U preach love and kindness and violence free environment knowing that ur God has subjected u to a life of pain and suffering.
U know God allowing Satan to kill ur family is good but u rebuke the devil. Listen to urself

And God has also provided every comfort necessary in this life to enable the man who suffers to bear his suffering in this life. If God is embraced in faith, He Himself will comfort the believer and bring him steadily to the Day when He will heal all the pain and reverse all the suffering and substitute in its place blessing to an infinite degree.

I know right... Ur God acts like a rat that's bites and blows soft air on the wound so that u will not feel much pain.

I will look forward to it.


I am saying no such thing. I just asked you to prove a claim you made. Do you consider the occurrence of those attacks proof of your claim?

Before I answer... Can I quote u, that God does not see as bokoharam attacks Christians? Yes or no.

Your argument is with the dictionary.

How? Did the dictionary ask u to take assumption seriously? Did the dictionary tell u that assumption means a confident statement.

Yeah, I totally understand. I believe that you are crazy too to be an atheist.

Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy.
But its not for us to see.. We have viewers right? Let them be the judge.

Ihedinobi3:
MuttleyLaff, I'm very happy to see that you agree with me as much as you do.

Some people come into each other lives to sharpen themselves

The truth is priceless especially in these times its rare
and the only people who are mad at anyone writing the truth, are those people who are living a lie

Ihedinobi3:
Needless to say, I believe that you are right that our Lord set an example for us in how He took the Pharisees to task.
I also believe that we should not go looking for trouble as we don't see evidence in the Bible that He ever did with the Pharisees.
So, while there are times when I will challenge, rebuke or basically denounce a teacher for bad teaching and behavior,
I try to avoid provoking them if I can.

Jesus flogged and chased some people with a whip

Ihedinobi3:
About the caption, you requested, I'm afraid I'm not that good at captions. LOL.
I just saw a mad rush waiting to happen. And I have the vaguest understanding of its application to the issue.
Perhaps you could explain to me?

Caption it: Stress and Robustness Test

That picture is a typical case of, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
Unleash the dogs, set them free with a cat, straying with no care in the world
Will their nature get the better of them?
Will self-restraint, self-control and self-discipline rule the day?

Looks like there is no situation problem going on in the picture
The fox can be set to guard the henhouse and nothing will happen to the chicken.
The cat can be set to guard the cream/milk and nothing will happen to the cream/milk.

What will become of Satan, if My resting Hand on Satan is lifted off?
What will become of Adam and Eve, if I trust them to be left alone with an unguarded tree they are forbidden not to eat from?
When faced with an adverse condition, will Satan withstand it or will Adam and Eve overcome it?
What choice will they make and/or take?

Let the die be cast. Whichever way the wind blows, God will be at the end of the choice(s) made

The destination, is that picturesque

Ihedinobi3:
About the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, I believe you have a point.
However, I learned from my own teacher that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Your teacher, is so spot on with that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Adam and Eve's conscience, prior to eating the fruit, importantly only had to contend with whether it was right or wrong to eat the fruit

I once read that the true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching
but Adam and Eve, prior to eating the fruit, because of lack of experiences (i.e. as in, no experiential knowledge of Good and Evil) were character-less.

The faculties of the spirit, comprises of: Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition,
but conscience, zeroing on it, after the spiritual disconnect brought, about by death, from eating the fruit, became marred

Conscience, then, being no longer under the influence of divine grace and greatly weakened, can no more be trusted to do its work
and so man's character, that needs to be shaped or built up, had experiences to look up to for this to be done
Man's character is shaped from his/her scraps with danger, from cuts and bruises of life, from pleasurables, thrills, sweetness of life etcetera

Mr A's character is different to Mr B's character
This is because our different experiences, shapes our individual character,
and its practically, character that determines what right or wrong action we take about a matter

Ihedinobi3:
Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect there.

I totally agree with you that Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect.
There was no need for them to have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil
They didn't need to personally experience all that is "Beautiful" and all that is "Adversity"

Ihedinobi3:
They only had one rule:
Don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
That was pretty straightforward.
Not complex at all, so all the work their conscience had to do was remind them not to eat the fruit from that one tree

Actually they had more than one rule (e.g. rule to multiply, replenish etcetera)
and significantly only had one specified forbidden rule,
Its directive was clear and pretty straightforward about not to eat the fruit of the, "the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil"

Ihedinobi3:
Not complex at all, so all the work their conscience had to do was remind them not to eat the fruit from that one tree

I believe their conscience guided them how to behave towards the tree
and even reminded them not to eat the fruit of the tree
This is evident from the conversation that transpired between Eve and the serpent
Eve wrestled with her conscience, trying to justify the reason, why she ought to eat the fruit

They had a sense of right and wrong but overruled conscience.
Eve's defence is, from being deceived
and Adam's defence, was to blame God, saying God was responsible

Anyway, they had a guilty conscience afterwards over their "... be like God, knowing good and evil" desires, and ultimately ended up hiding from God
This obviously, after they decoded that, they have been sold down the river by the serpent
and that their hopes, expectation and desire to ... be like God, knowing good and evil" actually comes with a huge price
The enormity of what, knowing good and evil, means, and the extent of it, was soul wrecking and wrenching experience,
Eve was inconsolable (i.e. Genesis 3:16)

Ihedinobi3:
However, once they disobeyed God, they could no longer live in His Presence

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was tucked away in a corner of the Garden of Eden
It was prominently and centrally placed in the middle of the Garden of Eden alongside with the Tree of Life.
It is because of the Tree of Life that they were evicted from continuing living in Eden, barred from reentering and prevented from squatting

From eating the fruit, death, the dividing line, has separated them from God.
The spiritual disconnect, came in from eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
Now they have to take on and put up with the spewing contents of death's pandora box

Ihedinobi3:
That meant that they would have to have some way of dealing with Satan's assaults upon them outside of the Garden.
They would need a much expanded conscience to appreciate right and wrong outside of fellowship with God
or else the human race simply wouldn't survive (witness Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain).
The fruit provided that to them

Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain, is one of the by-products of eating the fruit

Sorrow actually made an appearance first before murder came on to the scene
To God that was mediocre sorrow, as so declared, sorrow will be greatly multiplied to experience

Ihedinobi3:
Once they ate it, they became cognizant of good and evil (Gen 3:22)
and that was also how they knew they were in serious trouble when the Lord came to "hang out" with them (Gen 3:8-11).

Once they ate it, they opened a "Pandora box" or floodgates for all sorts of by-products

As earlier mentioned, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Adversity".

The "Beautiful", is, as in, all and everything in between, thats dandy and good
and the "Adversity", is, as in, every hardship, bad and ugly, difficult or unpleasant situation that possibly can happen.

Once they ate, it paved the way to begin having first hand experiences of several parts of all that's "Beautiful" and all that's "Adversity"
They have become gods, to begin judging between beautiful and adversity.
Good times, bad times, what's pretty, what's ugly, what's bitter, what's sweet, what's pain, what's pleasure, what's orgasmic, what's frigid,
screaming, laughing, smiling, crying, commotion, tranquility, mourning, partying etcetera

Essentially after eating the fruit, the whole shebang spectrum will unleash into the world.

---

---

---

frank317 are you of the view, it is unfair on Adam and Eve for God to trust them
and be left alone with the The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
cc paxonel, budaatum, vaxx

frank317:

U can say that again but that does not change the fact that what I summarized about ur belief shows how shitty ur belief is.

Well, if your summary was a demonstration of your creativity rather than any kind of accurate representation of my "belief", then it is only the same product of your imagination that you proved to be "shitty", as you say.

frank317:
Weather an angel was there or not does not change the fact that it clearly implied how ur God behaves when u admit that he knew giving man free will would mess things up and he began early enough to prepare Jesus doe sacrifice, and prepared to curse Adam and Eve and even prepared to destroy the earth with water and prepared hell. Yuck what a fuqed up thing to believe.

You mean "giving the angels free will", right? Because that is what I said.

You're welcome to knock it. As I said, I'm not at all interested in legitimizing my choice of beliefs to you.

frank317:
So? How does this imply that Yahweh knowing free will will mess things up and preparing Jesus for sacrifice being his best option does not make him sound psychotic?

Probably because you don't want the same thing He wants?

Free will makes it possible for God to get the Perfect Family that He wants for eternity, a perfect number of angels and human beings who love the Lord God and each other and will take perfect care of the perfect creation that He will make for them at the end of all this.

frank317:
So I can quote u any where... If God allows Satan to kill ur family, it is very Good. If God allows bokoharam to kill ur family it is very good.
Can I also quote this as christian believe.
If u don't understand why I think u have mental problem by now, then I will not blame u.

Yes, you can. And yes it is what Christians believe.

As I said, atheism and Christianity are polar opposites, logically speaking. I am not surprised or particularly concerned that you think I have a mental problem because I believe the Bible. I equally think that it is insane to subscribe to atheism.

frank317:
Since u know pain and suffering is necessary why do u avoid it. Are u not going against ur God will whennu avoid pain and even pray he helps u minimize pain.
Its funny how u guys talk when u argue. U guys spend ur whole life asking God for a better and life filled with less or no pain. U preach love and kindness and violence free environment knowing that ur God has subjected u to a life of pain and suffering.
U know God allowing Satan to kill ur family is good but u rebuke the devil. Listen to urself


I know right... Ur God acts like a rat that's bites and blows soft air on the wound so that u will not feel much pain.

The two arguments that you split up here are really one argument. God wants us to be happy. That was why He made a perfect universe for us to enjoy. But our own choice to rebel against Him and do things our way is how it was ruined. If we turn to Him in Faith, He is able to comfort us through the troubles of this life so that no matter how hard things get, we will always be able to find happiness and peace in our hearts. Then, again, at the end of this life, everyone who has trusted in Him has an eternity of perfect happiness with absolutely no regrets about the pains of this life awaiting them.

This is why we believers do not go looking for ways to make our lives miserable. The misery of this life exists because of sin. We do our part to do right so that we do not add to the misery but rather witness to a time when perfect happiness will once more fill God's Universe.

If we worship misery, then we would not be praying for the coming of God's Perfect Kingdom of Perfect Happiness.

frank317:
Before I answer... Can I quote u, that God does not see as bokoharam attacks Christians? Yes or no.

Did I say such a thing for you to quote? Of course, God is fully aware of Boko Haram and all the attacks that you refer to. He knew all about them before He even created the Universe.

frank317:
How? Did the dictionary ask u to take assumption seriously? Did the dictionary tell u that assumption means a confident statement.

I'm not sure what to make of the above. Are you forgetting the definition I copied and pasted for you?

frank317:
Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy.
But its not for us to see.. We have viewers right? Let them be the judge.

No, I'm not here for that. I'm here to make sure that the record about what the Bible actually says is straight. The whole "calling each other crazy" bit is incidental. And you don't really need the viewers to judge. You can simply look at your arguments and question whether they have been straightforward and kept to the rules of logic.

MuttleyLaff:
Some people come into each other lives to sharpen themselves

The truth is priceless especially in these times its rare
and the only people who are mad at anyone writing the truth, are those people who are living a lie

Jesus flogged and chased some people with a whip

Caption it: Stress and Robustness Test

That picture is a typical case of, a moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
Unleash the dogs, set them free with a cat, straying with no care in the world
Will their nature get the better of them?
Will self-restraint, self-control and self-discipline rule the day?

Looks like there is no situation problem going on in the picture
The fox can be set to guard the henhouse and nothing will happen to the chicken.
The cat can be set to guard the cream/milk and nothing will happen to the cream/milk.

What will become of Satan, if My resting Hand on Satan is lifted off?
What will become of Adam and Eve, if I trust them to be left alone with an unguarded tree they are forbidden not to eat from?
When faced with an adverse condition, will Satan withstand it or will Adam and Eve overcome it?
What choice will they make and/or take?

Let the die be cast. Whichever way the wind blows, God will be at the end of the choice(s) made

The destination, is that picturesque

Your teacher, is so spot on with that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Adam and Eve's conscience, prior to eating the fruit, importantly only had to contend with whether it was right or wrong to eat the fruit

I once read that the true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching
but Adam and Eve, prior to eating the fruit, because of lack of experiences (i.e. as in, no experiential knowledge of Good and Evil) were character-less.

The faculties of the spirit, comprises of: Fellowship, Conscience, Discernment or Intuition,
but conscience, zeroing on it, after the spiritual disconnect brought, about by death, from eating the fruit, became marred

Conscience, then, being no longer under the influence of divine grace and greatly weakened, can no more be trusted to do its work
and so man's character, that needs to be shaped or built up, had experiences to look up to for this to be done
Man's character is shaped from his/her scraps with danger, from cuts and bruises of life, from pleasurables, thrills, sweetness of life etcetera

Mr A's character is different to Mr B's character
This is because our different experiences, shapes our individual character,
and its practically, character that determines what right or wrong action we take about a matter

I totally agree with you that Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect.
There was no need for them to have experiential knowledge of Good and Evil
They didn't need to personally experience all that is "Beautiful" and all that is "Adversity"

Actually they had more than one rule (e.g. rule to multiply, replenish etcetera)
and significantly only had one specified forbidden rule,
Its directive was clear and pretty straightforward about not to eat the fruit of the, "the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil"

I believe their conscience guided them how to behave towards the tree
and even reminded them not to eat the fruit of the tree
This is evident from the conversation that transpired between Eve and the serpent
Eve wrestled with her conscience, trying to justify the reason, why she ought to eat the fruit

They had a sense of right and wrong but overruled conscience.
Eve's defence is, from being deceived
and Adam's defence, was to blame God, saying God was responsible

Anyway, they had a guilty conscience afterwards over their "... be like God, knowing good and evil" desires, and ultimately ended up hiding from God
This obviously, after they decoded that, they have been sold down the river by the serpent
and that their hopes, expectation and desire to ... be like God, knowing good and evil" actually comes with a huge price
The enormity of what, knowing good and evil, means, and the extent of it, was soul wrecking and wrenching experience,
Eve was inconsolable (i.e. Genesis 3:16)

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was tucked away in a corner of the Garden of Eden
It was prominently and centrally placed in the middle of the Garden of Eden alongside with the Tree of Life.
It is because of the Tree of Life that they were evicted from continuing living in Eden, barred from reentering and prevented from squatting

From eating the fruit, death, the dividing line, has separated them from God.
The spiritual disconnect, came in from eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
Now they have to take on and put up with the spewing contents of death's pandora box

Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain, is one of the by-products of eating the fruit

Sorrow actually made an appearance first before murder came on to the scene
To God that was mediocre sorrow, as so declared, sorrow will be greatly multiplied to experience

Once they ate it, they opened a "Pandora box" or floodgates for all sorts of by-products

As earlier mentioned, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Adversity".

The "Beautiful", is, as in, all and everything in between, thats dandy and good
and the "Adversity", is, as in, every hardship, bad and ugly, difficult or unpleasant situation that possibly can happen.

Once they ate, it paved the way to begin having first hand experiences of several parts of all that's "Beautiful" and all that's "Adversity"
They have become gods, to begin judging between beautiful and adversity.
Good times, bad times, what's pretty, what's ugly, what's bitter, what's sweet, what's pain, what's pleasure, what's orgasmic, what's frigid,
screaming, laughing, smiling, crying, commotion, tranquility, mourning, partying etcetera

Essentially after eating the fruit, the whole shebang spectrum will unleash into the world.

---

---

---

frank317 are you of the view, it is unfair on Adam and Eve for God to trust them
and be left alone with the The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
cc paxonel, budaatum, vaxx

Quite true.

I just want to mention that there are things the Lord Jesus did that were unique to Him only as God-Man, God's Perfect Sacrifice and a Prophet of Israel. We can't legitimately do the same things.

When He made a whip of cords and drove the traders from the Temple, He acted as the Son of God. The Temple is God's Palace and during the Millennium, it is from there that the Lord Jesus will reign over the whole earth. So, He had a right to do something like that. It was expected of the Christ, since the Temple is the Christ's Palace.

Additionally, it was the traders that He drove out of the Temple. We are not told that He did anything to the Pharisees.

frank317:
I am judging from the things coming from u here bro... Its crazy.
Ya right... Have fun.
At least I have the right to tell it to ur face that u sound crazy.

Ihedinobi3:
Yeah, I totally understand.
I believe that you are crazy too to be an atheist.

frank317:
Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy.
But its not for us to see.. We have viewers right? Let them be the judge.

Ihedinobi3:
No, I'm not here for that.
I'm here to make sure that the record about what the Bible actually says is straight.
The whole "calling each other crazy" bit is incidental. And you don't really need the viewers to judge.
You can simply look at your arguments and question whether they have been straightforward and kept to the rules of logic.

²⁰Then Jesus went home. Another crowd gathered so that Jesus and his disciples could not even eat.
²¹When His family heard about it, they went to get him.
They said, "He's out of his mind!
(i.e. He is crazy, He's gone mad, He has lost His senses)"
- Mark 3:20-21

"So if we were crazy, it was for God;
if we are sane, it is for you."
- 2 Corinthians 5:13

Being called crazy comes with the terrain

Don't be offended when people call you crazy.
I wear being called crazy, like a badge of honour
I put it on head like a shrimp bwahahaha ha
I love others I can demonstrate my crazy with

We have to be crazy, because staying sane will fairk you up
You have to be crazy, as it sure does help being crazy
It keeps you from being insane or becoming an atheist. Bwahahaha ha

---

---

---

Ihedinobi3:

Quite true.

I just want to mention that there are things the Lord Jesus did that were unique to Him only as God-Man, God's Perfect Sacrifice and a Prophet of Israel. We can't legitimately do the same things.

When He made a whip of cords and drove the traders from the Temple, He acted as the Son of God.
The Temple is God's Palace and during the Millennium, it is from there that the Lord Jesus will reign over the whole earth.
So, He had a right to do something like that.
It was expected of the Christ, since the Temple is the Christ's Palace.

Additionally, it was the traders that He drove out of the Temple.
We are not told that He did anything to the Pharisees.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father"
- John 14:12

Without really minding John 14:12 up there, let's get back to the temple matter

Where the temple at right now?
What's the temple now?
Who is temple now?

MuttleyLaff:

Frank317 are you of the view, it is unfair on Adam and Eve for God to trust them
and be left alone with the The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
cc paxonel, budaatum, vaxx

Yes..

If he already knew they would fail...what's he trusting them for?

frank317:
Yes..

An admirable honest and sincere emphatic reply

frank317:
If already knew they would fail...

I like how you want to reason this
but what about if there is more than the eyes sees

frank317:
what he trusting them for?

He owns them that right to be trusted so He trusted them frank317
It's as simples as that frank317

MuttleyLaff:






²⁰Then Jesus went home. Another crowd gathered so that Jesus and his disciples could not even eat.
²¹When His family heard about it, they went to get him.
They said, "He's out of his mind!
(i.e. He is crazy, He's gone mad, He has lost His senses)"
- Mark 3:20-21

"So if we were crazy, it was for God;
if we are sane, it is for you."
- 2 Corinthians 5:13

Being called crazy comes with the terrain

Don't be offended when people call you crazy.
I wear being called crazy, like a badge of honour
I put it on head like a shrimp bwahahaha ha
I love others I can demonstrate my crazy with

We have to be crazy, because staying sane will fairk you up
You have to be crazy, as it sure does help being crazy
It keeps you from being insane or becoming an atheist. Bwahahaha ha

---

---

---

I completely agree, of course. I have no problem being called crazy for being a believer. I was making a point...or two.

I should point out, however, that there is nothing crazy about being a believer. That they say we are does not mean that they are right. The world has philosophy backwards. Christ has it right.

I'm not a philosophy enthusiast. An old friend of mine, once very active on this forum, MrAnony1, was and is a philosophy aficionado. He can show you how perfectly logical the Christian Faith is. I don't need philosophy to know though.

Many atheists pretend to have discovered the secret to intelligence once they reject Christ but that is really nonsense. Some whose arguments I once knew are now very intellectually lazy since rejecting Christ. It is perfectly normal to atheism to be that way because atheism is a reaction against emotional and intellectual stress. It is by definition very lazy philosophically.

The same is true of all shades of unbelief. Being a Christian is where the hard work is.

So, we don't "have to be crazy". It takes quite a bit of deliberate foolishness to choose to become an atheist. The atheist essentially ignores all the evidence of his senses by claiming that all he can detect through his senses is all there is.

Anyway, my point is that there is nothing crazy about being a Christian. That is why I have no trouble being called crazy by unbelievers. I have played apologist before and then I have pursued spiritual growth (still doing so everyday) and I can tell you, atheists crumble very fast if you decide to go toe to toe with them. Their knowledge of the Bible is so bad that they cannot string together any serious objection to it. And they are too lazy to make any real arguments of their own for atheism.

MuttleyLaff:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father"
- John 14:12

Without really minding John 14:12 up there, let's get back to the temple matter

Where the temple at right now?
What's the temple now?
Who is temple now?

Our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and the Church together is also God's Building or God's Temple.

But in the Tribulation, the Third Temple commissioned by God will be built in Jerusalem from where the Lord Jesus will reign in the Millennium.

Ihedinobi3:
I completely agree, of course. I have no problem being called crazy for being a believer.
I was making a point...or two

I know you dont
frank217 first called you crazy
but when you tit-for-tat back to him, he registered a protest, flicking out a "Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy" sic card

Ihedinobi3:
I should point out, however, that there is nothing crazy about being a believer.
That they say we are does not mean that they are right.
The world has philosophy backwards. Christ has it right.

What others cant get head round they call crazy
but really it isnt crazy in the medically certifiable sense

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not a philosophy enthusiast.
An old friend of mine, once very active on this forum, MrAnony1, was and is a philosophy aficionado.
He can show you how perfectly logical the Christian Faith is.
I don't need philosophy to know though

I know MrAnony1, we were to play chess before he moved over to Naija

Ihedinobi3:
Many atheists pretend to have discovered the secret to intelligence once they reject Christ but that is really nonsense.
Some whose arguments I once knew are now very intellectually lazy since rejecting Christ.
It is perfectly normal to atheism to be that way because atheism is a reaction against emotional and intellectual stress.
It is by definition very lazy philosophically.

You can spot the ones who became disenchanted and resentful because of one reason or the other
You also can tell the strongly bitter, twisted, cynical and high negatively charged up ones.
There are also the not-yet-ready-to-be-unplugged ones, who have become inured to the overcharged up negative energy juice.

Ihedinobi3:
The same is true of all shades of unbelief.
Being a Christian is where the hard work is.

It is harder being anything else than being a believer
What makes the work easy for a believer is grace and the Holy Spirit

Ihedinobi3:
So, we don't "have to be crazy".

You have to be crazy at times, sometimes act crazy, sometimes say or do crazy things

Like Noah obeying God and building an ark

To an outlooker, hearing her reply, wont it sound crazy to him/her? (i.e. 2 Kings 4:14-26)
The Shunammite woman whose child had died
but when asked "Is all well with the child?"
She answered, "All is well"

Peter asking to walk on water, doesnt that sound crazy? (i.e. Matthew 14:22-33)

The lady with the issue of blood touching the hem of Jesus' garment for healing

Ihedinobi3:
It takes quite a bit of deliberate foolishness to choose to become an atheist.
The atheist essentially ignores all the evidence of his senses by claiming that all he can detect through his senses is all there is.

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."
- Psalm 14:1

People think Psalm 14:1, is speaking ill of atheist, that it is making wickedly cheap potshots
but no, that verse, Psalm 14:1 and another one, Psalm 53:1,
are just being frank to the fact about a supposedly knowledgeable person
concluding and making a wrong decision (i.e. foolish) concerning the existence of God.

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit bowl or fruit salad. The fool might though.
So we see, it is a wisdom problem, we have on our hands with atheists here about God

Ihedinobi3:
Anyway, my point is that there is nothing crazy about being a Christian.

I know, especially not in the medically certifiable sense
but then as Paul would say, in 2 Corinthians 5:13:
If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God
And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit.

Ihedinobi3:
That is why I have no trouble being called crazy by unbelievers.
I have played apologist before and then I have pursued spiritual growth (still doing so everyday)
and I can tell you, atheists crumble very fast if you decide to go toe to toe with them.
Their knowledge of the Bible is so bad that they cannot string together any serious objection to it.
And they are too lazy to make any real arguments of their own for atheism

I can attest to the whole comment and especially the emboldened

Ihedinobi3:
Our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit and the Church together is also God's Building or God's Temple.

But in the Tribulation, the Third Temple commissioned by God will be built in Jerusalem from where the Lord Jesus will reign in the Millennium

True

How can you have choice when the other option is damnation.
Armed robber-"Gimme your money or I'll shoot you"
man-"No, I won't give you "
Armed robber -*shoots*

Lawyer: Armed robber is innocent,Man choose to die, he gave the man a choice.

God : I'm giving you a choice, worship me or don't
And go to hell.

Somebody should explain this

1zynnvn:
How can you have choice when the other option is damnation.
Armed robber-"Gimme your money or I'll shoot you"
man-"No, I won't give you "
Armed robber -*shoots*

This is flawed on so many levels.
The armed robber, is doing what armed robbers are best known to do
Taking from a person, by threat of force or assault, what is not lawfully the armed robber's

1zynnvn:
Lawyer: Armed robber is innocent, he gave the man a choice.

"Woe to you lawyers!
For you have taken away the key of knowledge.
You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering."
- Luke 11:52

"But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John."
- Luke 7:30

1zynnvn:
God: I'm giving you a choice, worship me or don't
And go to hell.

How do you think one worships God?
Put worship aside for a moment.
Where and how the whole matter start?
What did the whole matter in the beginning start with?

1zynnvn:
Somebody should explain this

Give it a rest

Ihedinobi3:

Well, if your summary was a demonstration of your creativity rather than any kind of accurate representation of my "belief", then it is only the same product of your imagination that you proved to be "shitty", as you say.

Ur denial tactics will not help... In ur belief:
Did ur god create the universe?
Sis he create Angels?
Did an Angel fall our with 1/3 of the angels he created?
Did he create man?
Did man fall out due to disobedience?
Did God trying to redeem man?
Did give his only begotten son in the process?
Did he destroy the earth with water at a time?
Except ur answer is No to any of the questions above..then how does my summary not describe ur belief?

You mean "giving the angels free will", right? Because that is what I said.

You're welcome to knock it. As I said, I'm not at all interested in legitimizing my choice of beliefs to you.

U mustn't be interested in anything... It's clear for everyone to see.
The fact that God knew that giving man will mess things up and called on Jesus to start preparing himself for sacrifice in years to come based on his intended plan shows how psychotic he is.

Probably because you don't want the same thing He wants?

Free will makes it possible for God to get the Perfect Family that He wants for eternity, a perfect number of angels and human beings who love the Lord God and each other and will take perfect care of the perfect creation that He will make for them at the end of all this.

Nah.. Free will makes it possible for God to blame his psychotic nature, mistakes and stupidity on man.

Yes, you can. And yes it is what Christians believe.


As I said, atheism and Christianity are polar opposites, logically speaking. I am not surprised or particularly concerned that you think I have a mental problem because I believe the Bible. I equally think that it is insane to subscribe to atheism.

Good to know u accept this as a Christian.
In fact u needn't be concerned of how I or any other person feel about ur psychotic belief. I already know u are not capable of understanding the implication of what u are adhering to. The only thing I can say to u for now is SORRY.

The two arguments that you split up here are really one argument. God wants us to be happy. That was why He made a perfect universe for us to enjoy. But our own choice to rebel against Him and do things our way is how it was ruined. If we turn to Him in Faith, He is able to comfort us through the troubles of this life so that no matter how hard things get, we will always be able to find happiness and peace in our hearts. Then, again, at the end of this life, everyone who has trusted in Him has an eternity of perfect happiness with absolutely no regrets about the pains of this life awaiting them.

Ya... Exactly how he comforted Job after allowing stand to kill all his family and inflict him with illness just to prove a point to same rebellious Satan. This love is awesome.

This is why we believers do not go looking for ways to make our lives miserable. The misery of this life exists because of sin. We do our part to do right so that we do not add to the misery but rather witness to a time when perfect happiness will once more fill God's Universe.

If we worship misery, then we would not be praying for the coming of God's Perfect Kingdom of Perfect Happiness.

U do not need to worship misery. Pain is already there for u to learn to live with because ur God has already subjected u to pain and suffering so as to learn to accept him. That's why its is perfectly OK for him to allow Satan to kill all ur family members after all, u will get over it and u will meet him in heaven to enjoy with him.
How can u add misery to ur life... Jehova will give u one when he deems fit and that will show his goodness and love towards u.

Did I say such a thing for you to quote? Of course, God is fully aware of Boko Haram and all the attacks that you refer to. He knew all about them before He even created the Universe.

OK... But sorry, what were u asking me to prove again?

I'm not sure what to make of the above. Are you forgetting the definition I copied and pasted for you?

And in ur definition I told u not to take the word assumption too seriously in which u said my my argument was with the dictionary... So I am asking why should my argument be with the dictionary?/did the dictionary ask me to take assumptive statements seriously... Did the dictionary ask me to take assumptive statements as confident statements?

No, I'm not here for that. I'm here to make sure that the record about what the Bible actually says is straight. The whole "calling each other crazy" bit is incidental. And you don't really need the viewers to judge. You can simply look at your arguments and question whether they have been straightforward and kept to the rules of logic.

Well.. I am here to show the world that u are somewhat crazy. U are not disappointing me so far. I need the viewers to judge for ur sake. I don't see u as capable to even understand the implications of ur statements. The bible is making u crazy man.

MuttleyLaff:
An admirable honest and sincere emphatic reply

I am Frank, remember.

I like how you want to reason this
but what about if there is more than the eyes sees

My reason for what? Did God know man will fail or not?

He owns them that right to be trusted so He trusted them frank317
It's as simples as that frank317

How can he trust them when he already knew they would fail?

Forgive me, but this must be my last response. I have other duties I must see to now.

frank317:

Ur denial tactics will not help... In ur belief:
Did ur god create the universe?
Sis he create Angels?
Did an Angel fall our with 1/3 of the angels he created?
Did he create man?
Did man fall out due to disobedience?
Did God trying to redeem man?
Did give his only begotten son in the process?
Did he destroy the earth with water at a time?
Except ur answer is No to any of the questions above..then how does my summary not describe ur belief?

This was what you said:

"You believe that a good and perfect all knowing creator created the world and one of his creation when out of control just like that and corrupted all other creations and for years this this good all powerful all knowing creator has been trying to fix things..."

There is a difference between that and what you said above. It is not my belief at all that any of God's creatures got out of His Control. And I certainly don't believe that He has been "trying" to fix anything - which is something you repeat again above.

Satan corrupted himself and seduced other angels to do the same. Later he also seduced man. But God already fixed everything in Christ. There is no trying involved, at least, not in my "belief", as you say.

frank317:
U mustn't be interested in anything... It's clear for everyone to see.
The fact that God knew that giving man will mess things up and called on Jesus to start preparing himself for sacrifice in years to come based on his intended plan shows how psychotic he is.

I don't think I will correct you on anything again. But if you want to take a pot shot at God on any old excuse, by all means, do so. It's your funeral.

frank317:
Nah.. Free will makes it possible for God to blame his psychotic nature, mistakes and stupidity on man.

Incidentally, that is actually Satan's argument. Had it not been for man's creation, it may have been difficult for the elect angels to appreciate that they had a free will.

frank317:
Good to know u accept this as a Christian.
In fact u needn't be concerned of how I or any other person feel about ur psychotic belief. I already know u are not capable of understanding the implication of what u are adhering to. The only thing I can say to u for now is SORRY.

Not sure what to say. Thank you?

frank317:
Ya... Exactly how he comforted Job after allowing stand to kill all his family and inflict him with illness just to prove a point to same rebellious Satan. This love is awesome.

Yes, it is my opinion that it is.

frank317:
U do not need to worship misery. Pain is already there for u to learn to live with because ur God has already subjected u to pain and suffering so as to learn to accept him. That's why its is perfectly OK for him to allow Satan to kill all ur family members after all, u will get over it and u will meet him in heaven to enjoy with him.
How can u add misery to ur life... Jehova will give u one when he deems fit and that will show his goodness and love towards u.

As I said, can't continue correcting you. We have had a long exchange now so my previous posts will have to do the job now.

frank317:
OK... But sorry, what were u asking me to prove again?

Never mind.

frank317:
And in ur definition I told u not to take the word assumption too seriously in which u said my my argument was with the dictionary... So I am asking why should my argument be with the dictionary?/did the dictionary ask me to take assumptive statements seriously... Did the dictionary ask me to take assumptive statements as confident statements?

You and I used a word. If you have any trouble with its meaning, refer to the dictionary. If the meaning in the dictionary does not satisfy you, I certainly can't possibly do anything more myself.

frank317:
Well.. I am here to show the world that u are somewhat crazy. U are not disappointing me so far. I need the viewers to judge for ur sake. I don't see u as capable to even understand the implications of ur statements. The bible is making u crazy man.

I'm not the first Christian to be told that. In fact, they said it of the Lord Jesus too. And as I said, it's not news. And those who are looking for an excuse to rebel against God will agree with you, of course. From my perspective, atheism is madness. So it only follows that an atheist would think I am mad too.

MuttleyLaff:
I know you dont
frank217 first called you crazy
but when you tit-for-tat back to him, he registered a protest, flicking out a "Isn't a that why we are here? To call each other crazy" sic card

What others cant get head round they call crazy
but really it isnt crazy in the medically certifiable sense

I know MrAnony1, we were to play chess before he moved over to Naija

You can spot the ones who became disenchanted and resentful because of one reason or the other
You also can tell the strongly bitter, twisted, cynical and high negatively charged up ones.
There are also the not-yet-ready-to-be-unplugged ones, who have become inured to the overcharged up negative energy juice.

It is harder being anything else than being a believer
What makes the work easy for a believer is grace and the Holy Spirit

You have to be crazy at times, sometimes act crazy, sometimes say or do crazy things

Like Noah obeying God and building an ark

To an outlooker, hearing her reply, wont it sound crazy to him/her? (i.e. 2 Kings 4:14-26)
The Shunammite woman whose child had died
but when asked "Is all well with the child?"
She answered, "All is well"

Peter asking to walk on water, doesnt that sound crazy? (i.e. Matthew 14:22-33)

The lady with the issue of blood touching the hem of Jesus' garment for healing

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."
- Psalm 14:1

People think Psalm 14:1, is speaking ill of atheist, that it is making wickedly cheap potshots
but no, that verse, Psalm 14:1 and another one, Psalm 53:1,
are just being frank to the fact about a supposedly knowledgeable person
concluding and making a wrong decision (i.e. foolish) concerning the existence of God.

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit bowl or fruit salad. The fool might though.
So we see, it is a wisdom problem, we have on our hands with atheists here about God

I know, especially not in the medically certifiable sense
but then as Paul would say, in 2 Corinthians 5:13:
If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God
And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit.

I can attest to the whole comment and especially the emboldened

True

Very good points, my brother. About the tit for tat with Frank317, it wasn't really. As I said, I was trying to make a point and it was that there can be no real point in debate between believers and atheists because even the laws of logic are not agreed upon between the two sides. So, it only follows that true atheists would consider the believer crazy and the believer would just be incredulous at the atheist's arguments (or nonarguments).

I try to avoid giving insult for insult because these things are not about me. The Truth I know and teach is God's Truth, not mine. The fight is His fight, not mine. So, I shouldn't get personal about it. Granted that I am not perfect at this, it is still my responsibility to try and "stay out of it" even while I do my job of teaching the Bible. Emotional involvement can ruin a lot.

Thank you for your support, brother. Keep fighting the good fight.

1zynnvn:
How can you have choice when the other option is damnation.
Armed robber-"Gimme your money or I'll shoot you"
man-"No, I won't give you "
Armed robber -*shoots*

Lawyer: Armed robber is innocent,Man choose to die, he gave the man a choice.

God : I'm giving you a choice, worship me or don't
And go to hell.

Somebody should explain this

Nobody is there to explain it because there is no transcendental god out there. If there was, this would not be the approach. A transcendental god will not behave like an angry jealous man, who has no control over his emotions or the workings of the universe. A transcendental god would provide unequivocal truths instead of a stupid book written by men that ask you to have faith. No truth requires faith to operate, only 419 people feed you bullshit about great wealth without evidence and ask you to perform on faith so they can steal your money.

Thank god for sense. LMFAO!

Ihedinobi3:
Forgive me, but this must be my last response. I have other duties I must see to now.

No problem

This was what you said:

"You believe that a good and perfect all knowing creator created the world and one of his creation when out of control just like that and corrupted all other creations and for years this this good all powerful all knowing creator has been trying to fix things..."

There is a difference between that and what you said above. It is not my belief at all that any of God's creatures got out of His Control. And I certainly don't believe that He has been "trying" to fix anything - which is something you repeat again above.

Satan corrupted himself and seduced other angels to do the same. Later he also seduced man. But God already fixed everything in Christ. There is no trying involved, at least, not in my "belief", as you say.

I clearly think we saying the same thing.
God didn't intend to create a world with sin and rebellious beings, but that's what we have now... He even regretted creating man at a time...
Guy, accept it, things went out of his control. Ur believe is shitty.

I don't think I will correct you on anything again. But if you want to take a pot shot at God on any old excuse, by all means, do so. It's your funeral.

What's there to correct? This is what u said below
He knew that it would happen once He gave the angels a free will. This is why He made provisions for fixing the damage that would result from sin. That was the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ which redeemed Man and healed the damage in Creation and guaranteed the Eternal Family of God.
I think that's stupidity in the highest order for a God. U knew ur decision to give mab freewill will mess things up and u acted like a lost being with no other option and started deciding how u will redeem and punish man... What's that?

Incidentally, that is actually Satan's argument. Had it not been for man's creation, it may have been difficult for the elect angels to appreciate that they had a free will.

Sorry Satan is right here... No wonder God has been trying to prove a point to him since beginning of time even at the expense of Man's happiness. Rubbish believe.

Not sure what to say. Thank you?

It might also do u good to check urself in a mental home. Thank me later too.

Yes, it is my opinion that it is.

I think u are really sick bro.

As I said, can't continue correcting you. We have had a long exchange now so my previous posts will have to do the job now.

Its quite clear bro. God has set man up for suffering so that he would learn. I hope u are beginning to see he dysfunctional ur belief is.

Never mind.

Lol... U can't be feigning ignorance and ask me for proof of things u claim to know.

You and I used a word. If you have any trouble with its meaning, refer to the dictionary. If the meaning in the dictionary does not satisfy you, I certainly can't possibly do anything more myself.

There was actually no need for dictionary as we weren't even arguing on the meaning of assumption... I am only asking u not to take assumed statements too seriously.

I'm not the first Christian to be told that. In fact, they said it of the Lord Jesus too. And as I said, it's not news. And those who are looking for an excuse to rebel against God will agree with you, of course. From my perspective, atheism is madness. So it only follows that an atheist would think I am mad too.

Good to know that u are already used to being called crazy. Judging by ur responses that its love if God allows Satan to kill ur family... I think u need fast help.

frank317:
I am Frank, remember.


My reason for what?

I said I like the reasoning(s) behind your question(s)

frank317:
Did God know man will fail or not?

Yes,
but your asking this question as if you dont know that God is Omniscient

frank317:
How can he trust them when he already knew they would fail?

A moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
It is because they didnt have to fail
but then as budaatum will say:"...it's your God-given right to choose whichever path you want to go..."
and if they do choose to fail (i.e. not toe the line), then they'll come back stronger and better persons

paxonel:
A 13 years old girl asked this question in church during bible study yesterday and the teacher could not give a satisfactory reason.
He told her that God is preserving satan for judgment day but the little girl reminded him that all the sorrows in this world would have been avoided only if satan who was the cause, and who is still causing more sorrows was killed from the beginning, then there will be no need for judgement.
The preacher could not say anything and when the girl wanted to ask another question, the teacher practically told her off and end the class, saying he is not in the mood of answering questions any longer .

Can anyone help us answer the question?

This is because religion is based on deceitful lies and control for power, even the composers of that God, Satan story don't know for sure why just like they don't know when jesus would come again soon

These religious doctrines were used to control mass population in their origins till Education, Technology, Younger minds and the lot came along and there was a mass breaking out of this mentality so Men at the hem of their affairs decided to bring it down to Africans who have failed to realize it's strong foreign adverse effects, making them forget their ancestors, their roots, their spirituality as it's been labeled as evil and demonic by these same foreign doctrines.. i'm tired

MuttleyLaff:
I said I like the reasoning(s) behind your question(s)

To make sure u know the implication of ur answer

Yes,
but your asking this question as if you dont know that God is Omniscient

OK good.

A moment of choice, is a moment of truth.
It is because they didnt have to fail

U said God knew they will fail, and u say they didn't have to fail. Are u say what God knew was probably wrong? Or God's knowledge was a guess work?

but then as budaatum will say:"...it's your God-given right to choose whichever path you want to go..."
and if they do choose to fail (i.e. not toe the line), then they'll come back stronger and better persons

If God knew they will fail and they don't fail based on the choice they have... Can u tell me the implication of this on what God knew.

krushdripper:
This is because religion is based on deceitful lies and control for power, even the composers of that God, Satan story don't know for sure why just like they don't know when jesus would come again soon

These religious doctrines were used to control mass population in their origins till Education, Technology, Younger minds and the lot came along and there was a mass breaking out of this mentality so Men at the hem of their affairs decided to bring it down to Africans who have failed to realize it's strong foreign adverse effects, making them forget their ancestors, their roots, their spirituality as it's been labeled as evil and demonic by these same foreign doctrines.. i'm tired

is it true that there are more satan in africa than elsewhere?
Because, africa is still under developed which may not be the case in most other continents

Ihedinobi3:

I'll read them when I see them.



Easy lie: you said that God made a bet with Satan.

LoL! So what was the arrangement called? A covenant? LMAO!

I'm not going to dig them all up now. Haven't got the time or inclination.

Because there are none for you to dig.

Hypocrisy: you accuse me of making up stories to fill plot holes in the Bible but you have no problem spending years going to school to learn about the world around you. Why is it not equally intuitive for you as you demand that the Bible must be for everybody?

This is a word salad that has little sense to it, may be rephrase to better communicate what you mean.

On the contrary, you meddled in a Christian discussion of which I was a part and I defended what I believe.

I didn't respond to you so your need to respond to me is your headache.

Two things here:

It is you who call Satan the personification of evil, not the Bible;

It is you who coined the term "everlasting bus pass", not the Bible.

Now, you make these things up and attribute them to the Bible (typical straw man fallacy) and dismiss my clarifications and explanations as "elaborate bullshit" and I'm the one you accuse of making things up? See the hypocrisy and lying?

LoL. Jesus says Satan is the father of lies and that is not a personification? Dude you make me laugh with your disingeniousness.

LoL. God supposedly kicked Satan out of heaven for rebelling then he still can go to heaven and that is not an everlasting bus pass? What is God according to your fictional clarification summoning his enemy to heaven for? The holy god summoning the evil satan. LMAO!

Your go-to counterargument is the above. Can you demonstrate at all just once how the "story" did nothing to address it? Just once, so that this can assume some kind of legitimacy as an argument for normal intelligence.

A clear contradiction of what heaven and god are supposed to be like. A spotless heaven and a holy god getting a chummy visit from evil satan is not waved away by telling us god summoned satan. You only gave a dull reason why the devil still has access to this fictional spotless heaven, you didn't address the contradiction.

And what is the proof of this agitation?

LoL, your posts are proof of agitation. Warning me of "what the Father of all believers and the Captain of our Faith will do to them", thats the card Christians play when they start loosing their grip or they play the victim card "There was a time that believers were thrown to lions and burned at stakes because it entertained unbelievers. I don't see that much of a distance from mocking someone's choice of beliefs to actually making sport of killing them or torturing them for it." LoLz.