Are you actually taking Donzie seriously, Wes?

You know that loon wants to steal Lagos. OLE jati jati!

@thiefofhearts, is donzie lying? I don't think so but i also don't think is wrong to be so cuz maybe there 'r elsewhere.

ThiefOfHearts:

Are you actually taking Donzie seriously, Wes?

You know that loon wants to steal Lagos. OLE jati jati!

Nobody is trying to steal anything, you should pay a litte visit to Lagos. If it's not Igbo, it's Edo or Hausa, non-Yorubas all over the place. Maybe 20 years ago you could say that, not anymore!. . .Some of them learn Yoruba, doesnt make them Yoruba though.

lol. well it's Lagos. Eko akete.
next stop ---> Abuja.

Actually Port Harcourt, Sapele were the first victims . . .Port Harcourt was an Igbo town anyway, pre-colonization.

yeah. usually developed cities (in nigerian terms anyways) get an influx of migrants from all over the country. lol

Sapele wasn't all that, it was a small Urhobo town, when the timber trade started(Sapele wood has good market value), people began to migrate there. By the time they knew it, more than 50Z% of the town were Igbos (now these are real statistics, not the thing I'm throwing around for Lagos). Sapele has gone down though, it doesn't have much to offer anymore. . .Urhobo waado !

cool. i learn something new everyday.
all i used to know about sapele was from some literature book in Nigeria "mr ------ lives in sapele" "he goes to church on sundays" etc
i thought it was a fictional place. lol

Laudate@
Kindly provide proof to show that a piece of land was sold for 10,000 before IBB moved to Aso Rock! What year exactly are you referring to? Land was allocated to all states in Abuja not just northern states, so what is your point? And how did you arrive at 68% of the land being allocated to northern states? Please cite your source. If Mr. Adamu was qualified to own land in Abuja and was granted such land, who told you that Mr. Coker was NOT also granted land, if he was qualified for it, like Mr. Adamu? Do you have proof of such occurences? I know several non-northerners who were allocated land directly by the governement in Abuja, so kindly stop trying to make out as if the Igbo were denied land in Abuja, simply on grounds of their ethnicity!

Yes, those who paid their hard earned money are facing revocation and demolition, both Igbo & non-Igbo alike. Enough of this victim mentality, please!

Thanks donzman for telling Mr laudate to re-read the post before posting. According to him, Nigeria is one even though it took his kinsmen 47 years to figure that another man who is not of their tribe should occupy the presidency. Please let's get to back to the topic. I want to engage in a constructive analysis, not by asking to me produce evidence that what Mr Rufai said could be taken to the bank.


As per victim mentality, a comparison is based on two or more known conditions. Igbos know what Awo’s 20 pounds could achieve in a short period of time.  Igbos have shaken hands beyond river Niger. They have far more invested and diversified in Nigeria than any other tribes. We don’t have to continuously talk about one Nigeria. Show me. Don’t invest in Abuja, because it’s the headquarters for national allocation. Don’t invest in PH because there is oil. Go to Umuahia, Potiskum,Zaki Biam, Gboko  etc and invest if you really believe in oneness of Nigeria.  Some folks have not done anything beyond their enclaves and they will be one to shout one Nigeria. Let one Nigeria start today. Let other folks match Igbo’s efforts in developing every nook and cranny in Nigeria. This will make alamajuris in Wusasa Junction to remember that his kinsmen have investments all over Naija, maybe they will be destroyed if they incite people to destroy Igbo’s investments.

Donzman , my brother I am not scared,   I would round up why into 2 song, for THE WISE to understand,  like Elijah said those unseen force for us are more than those again us,   It may be the end is about to come for Nigeria.  THE WISE would sing

O my pal
He is taken away
away
I must die for my pal
I am singing , singing , singing
for my pal
I am also ready,

My brother I am proud to be a member of the family, andhere is the second song,

I love this family of God
so closely nested into one
They have taken me into their house
and I am so glad to be a part of this great family,




My brother only THE WISE would understand,  My brother I would continue to speak out again any wrong in Nigeria.  It is not their country only, It is mine too.  If anybody do not like what I say, they can decided to leave Nigeria for us or change their country,  alot of country around africa would need them.

WesleyanA:

i think the reason laudate asked that question was 'cause of the comment that "someone" said earlier about hating yorubas.
it's just like a US southerner moving to vermont even though he "hates" northerners. OF course he can live anywhere he likes as long as he's american but it doesn't make rational sense for him to buy land in the north if he hates northerners. it would make more sense if he bought his land in kentucky or mississippi or something where he is surrounded by southerners like him. lol

Oh thanks WesleyanA for that comment. Kindly tell the man to take his blinkers off, and read the posts without prejudice! No one is saying other ethnic groups cannot live in Lagos or own land there. What we are saying is that hatred doesn't promote good neighbourliness. Docokwy is a tribalistic hate-monger, just like Donzman. Why bring his brand of hatred to Lagos? If all Lagosians were as driven by hatred as he is, I doubt if he would have considered investing in that territory.

Donzman:

This Laudate is dumb. Nobody said Lagos has moved from Southwest to wherever, Donzman is saying that no ethnic group can claim Lagos as his father's inheritance anymore. The ethnic politics they're playing in Lagos is for just a matter of time!

Oh Donzman, please do not develop hypertension over Laudate's comments. If Laudate is dumb, then what are you? Retarded? Listen to yourself. Last time I checked, Yoruba people were the dominant majority in Lagos, due to their historical antecedents and ancestry. Now, why would your friend want to move to a place populated by an ethnic group he hates? Has he developed a sudden love & affection for them? Answer us o! And talking about ethnic politics, na you sabi that one pass!

Donzman:

You also need to stop asking stupid questions, you heard El-Rufai say 68% of the land was allocated to Northern states, why are you asking adconline stupid questions?. . .You also heard El-Rufai say that 73% of the land belonged to Igbos. A little 1+1 will tell you which ethnic group bore the heaviest load from the demolition excercise, so quit playing dumb. No member of any ethnic group should be a second class citizen in any part of Nigeria, if Lagos is Yorubaland then non-Yorubas who make up atleat 50% of the population are 2nd class citizens in their own country, sorry that doesn't fly!

Eeyaah, this thing dey pain you well, well.   Last time I checked, adconline had the intelligence & capability to respond to questions directed to him, by others. Wetin come be your own? Abi you don do change of name to adconline? The reply I gave to adconline is still valid.

Now each state in the country, was allocated land in the Abuja masterplan, when the idea of the Federal Capital Territory was concieved. Out of 31 states in Nigeria, Northern states (not Hausa states o! There is a difference please take note!), like I was saying, Northern states are 19 out of 31 states, that make up Nigeria. That come to roughly 61%, I believe.  So if the Northern states received 61% of the total land allocations in Abuja, (El-rufai says it is 68%, don't think he is accurate), would you say it makes sense?

Now the Abuja masterplan was distorted, because unscrupulous staff of the ministry conspired to sell land to interested parties, without paying attention to the master plan. Last time, I checked, workers within all ministries including those that run the Federal Capital territory were Nigerians drawn from different ethnic groups. So the corruption that led to the sale of those parcels of land, was perpetrated by people that cut across various ethnic groups. I still repeat, no one forced Igbo people to buy the resold parcels of land. If something is too expensive for you, walk away from it, don't complain. It is called choice!

Donzman:

No member of any ethnic group should be a second class citizen in any part of Nigeria, if Lagos is Yorubaland then non-Yorubas who make up atleat 50% of the population are 2nd class citizens in their own country, sorry that doesn't fly!

No one here has called non-Yoruba people in Lagos, second-class citizens, except you! Is that how warped your mind is, that you would refer to non-Yoruba folks as 2nd class people? Maybe that is how you truly see them? Na wa O!

Donzman:

Infact Laudate you're not only tribalistic but you HATE to see anything Igbo being seen as succesful. You're also ready to deny any instance of Igbos being victims of anything. Who said other ethnic groups didn't have their properties demolished?. . .All adconline is saying is that Igbo properties met the most destruction.

What makes Laudate 'tribalistic'? Everyone on this thread knows who the real tribalists and hate-mongers are, and they include you, Docokwy your side-kick and his ilk! Where have I ever denied that Igbos were victims of anything? Kindly go back to that post and re-read it! All I stated was that houses of people from other ethnic groups were also demolished. Or is that a lie? Even you, confirmed that. So what is the stress?

Igbo properties met the most destruction because they constituted the largest purchasers of land, and if the Abuja report is to be believed, the demolished properties were built in areas that distorted the master plan of the city. Some were built on drainage channels, flood drains, etc. It was NOT demolished simply because the owners were Igbo! So what really is your problem? This hatred you have for Laudate started when Laudate didn't join you to bash a particular individual on another thread. If you want to recruit Laudate into your tribe-bashing army, then you would have to wait until hell freezes over! _*Hiss*

Donzman:

This is similar to the rubbish you spew on other threads trying to trivialize the maimings Igbos have undergone in Northern Nigeria. In your infinite wisdom, other ethnic groups were also attacked so Igbos who make up 95% of the victims should keep quiet because the 5% isn't complaining. I suppose a man whose car has been stolen ought to react like a teenager hose shoes have gone missing.

The day dead natives of your ethnic group are shipped in trailers like goods from Northern Nigeria back home, their crime being going to other parts of Nigeria to live and make a living, then we can talk about other ethnic groups being victims, what a dumbass you are!

You're to the Igbos what anti-semites are to Israelites, just hurts you to see people succeed.

Now you have really lost it! Who trivialised the maimings of the Igbo? How? Where? When? In what way was it done? What makes Laudate anti-semitic, please? Please tell us in chapter & verse. Anti-semitic, my foot! You have accused Laudate of all kinds of evil deeds on this forum. So I guess its' nothing new. You now have to go so low to whip up sentiments by using the dead to build up a case, and bringing up things like[i] those who maimed dead natives of your ethnic group[/i] _{(to use your own words).} How low can you get? What a shame!  Kindly let the dead rest in peace, please.

You also claim that "Igbos who make up 95% of the victims should keep quiet because the 5% isn't complaining". You made the claims, not Laudate. Hmmn, this information is a new one. So the other groups that were attacked make up 5%?? Where did you get those statistics from, eh?  Lemme guess, you made them up as usual. Why am I not suprised?

And for your information, I have nothing but utmost respect for the true Igbo people, not 'whiners' like you! My relatives are drawn from different ethnic groups, including the Igbo. You do them a great disservice, when you make comments like the ones you have just regurgitated here. And you do nothing to help their cause, with the kind of hatred & vulgarity you consistently display. 

ThiefOfHearts:

Are you actually taking Donzie seriously, Wes?

You know that loon wants to steal Lagos. OLE jati jati!

He obviously does not have the foggiest idea of the facts that make up the history of Lagos. That is why he is spewing forth all the junk he can muster on this thread. Di guy na real Mumu!

Laudate, Donzie always sides with that lunatic docwyx so it shouldnt surprise you. Figured you would have realized this by now.

ThiefOfHearts:

Laudate, Donzie always sides with that lunatic docwyx so it shouldnt surprise you. Figured you would have realized this by now.

Yeah, you are right. They both talk without thinking & preach the same brand of hatred! A Yoruba-Lagosian having a neighbour like Docokwy, is' like a black man living next door to the Ku Klux Klan!

Everyone should pray hard against this kind of evil!

ThiefOfHearts:

Laudate, Donzie always sides with that lunatic docwyx so it shouldnt surprise you. Figured you would have realized this by now.

I've NEVER sided with docokwy on anything!

@Laudate

You also claim that "Igbos who make up 95% of the victims should keep quiet because the 5% isn't complaining". You made the claims, not Laudate. Hmmn, this information is a new one. So the other groups that were attacked make up 5%?? Where did you get those statistics from, eh?  Lemme guess, you made them up as usual. Why am I not suprised?

Sorry, did I give other ethnic groups 5%?. . .I'm being generous, they gotta be less than 1% in reality. I wonder how many ethnic groups had their dead people shipped in trailers. . .and the best you can do is tell them to keep quiet because some other ethnic groups were killed here and there.

Again until people from whatever part of Nigeria you come from decide to go into other parts of Nigeria like Sokoto, Maidugiri, invest and make a living and get killed while doing it, you have no right to comment on the tribulations peace loving people go through.

And for your information, I have nothing but utmost respect for the true Igbo people, not 'whiners' like you! My relatives are drawn from different ethnic groups, including the Igbo. You do them a great disservice, when you make comments like the ones you have just regurgitated here. And you do nothing to help their cause, with the kind of hatred & vulgarity you consistently display.

Ofcourse the true Igbo to your tribalistic and anti-Igbo self are those who will sit down and accept your foolish reasoning which is "since it wasn't only Igbos that got killed or had their property destroyed, they should keep quiet". Oh really?. . .I suppose Jews were the only victims of Hitler's cleansening! Those are not true Igbos, just cowardice ones unable to see through your tribalistic mask.

Northern states are 19 out of 31 states, that make up Nigeria. That come to roughly 61%, I believe.  So if the Northern states received 61% of the total land allocations in Abuja, (El-rufai says it is 68%, don't think he is accurate), would you say it makes sense?

Yeah I shouldn't believe El-Rufai, I should believe you and who is the FCT minister again?. . .Who is the tribalistic idiot clawing so hard to make us believe that Igbos have been treated fairly again?

No one here has called non-Yoruba people in Lagos, second-class citizens, except you! Is that how warped your mind is, that you would refer to non-Yoruba folks as 2nd class people? Maybe that is how you truly see them? Na wa O!

When you sayu Lagos is Yorubaland, it implies that non-Yorubas are living on Yorubaland which makes them second class citizens, that doesn't take much reasoning. It is logic like this that encouraged peope to seize Igbo properties after the civil war, based on what?. . .It's on Yorubaland. I imagine a true citizen won't have his property usurped in that manner by fellow Lagosians.

p.s.: Some Yorubas in Lagos treated Igbo properties well, others were just opportunistic brats!

Kindly let the dead rest in peace, please.

Remember that when you go around telling Igbos to keep quiet since thy are not the only ones kiled up North, or telling them to keep quiet since they were not the only ones killed during the civil war.

Yeah, you are right. They both talk without thinking & preach the same brand of hatred!

TOO BAD UNLIKE YOU, I'VE NEVER SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT ANY ETHNIC GROUP! Infact, I do not want to know anything bad about anybody, they can go on and live their lives. . .For the same reasons why I do not like anyone who says anything bad about my own people!

You being a tribalist is an established FACT of life!. . .Keep dancing naked, shameless trash.

some of the first group that settle in Lagos were the Itseriki ,Ijaws, edo, uhrobo  check history even before the igbos,  ,  I would not want to lie but i would agree the igbo, ijaws, edo, Uhrobo, hausa, tiv have settle down in Lagos so more than 50 years now,  and like tinubu did appoint a commissioner among from non yoruba. which was an igboman this time, ,  Fashola should also do the same at least look at other ethnics groups in lagos even if not an igbo man but non yorubas should be part of his govt,    I know fashola would appoint non yoruba into his govt, but where should not only be igbos given consideration only but other ethnics group too,  So that they all feel they belong,

Same should go for state like kano, oyo, ogun, rivers, kaduna and edo state.

Laudate

Eeyaah, this thing dey pain you well, well.   Last time I checked, adconline had the intelligence & capability to respond to questions directed to him, by others. Wetin come be your own? Abi you don do change of name to adconline? The reply I gave to adconline is still valid.


I wonder why you dabble into double standard in your postings. If it was cool for you to re-echo Wesylan’s sentiments ( oh may bad!!  Maybe she has a “low IQ” or her spokesman ) since it now the basis to agree with someone's position. Donzman was merely stressing his points which concurred with mine.  This has always been the tradition of this forum. The same thing you accused Donzman of doing, you ended up doing. Why do you argue this way? You also wanted us to believe you with un-statistical data even though you are not in the know to know better than El Rufai.  Even though it may not be glaring to you, you sound like someone who is ready to distort history in order to make Igbos look like villains. I have not been able to see equality of thoughts in your posts. Its either that My Rufai's facts were incorrect or that 68% is the same thing as 32%. We are here to critically examine his statement not reinvent new rules in order to score some cheap tribal points. I hate it when Nigerians pretend that tribalism does not exist, even though its entrenched in our system. We elect presidents on tribal affiliations. I dare say that I do not know any point of yours that is valid and begging for answers. I would have responded in my way. Donzman  and I are very different in our postings. Sometimes we need to regurgitate our thoughts before posting ok.

I would also want you to respond to my previous post.

Nigeria is one even though it took your kinsmen 47 years to figure out that another man who is not of their tribe should occupy the presidency.

Any reason for this act?


As per victim mentality, a comparison is based on two or more known conditions. Igbos know what Awo’s 20 pounds could achieve in a short period of time.  Igbos have shaken hands beyond river Niger. They have far more invested and diversified in Nigeria than any other tribes. We don’t have to continuously talk about one Nigeria. Show me. Don’t invest in Abuja, because it’s the headquarters for national allocation. Don’t invest in PH because there is oil. Go to Umuahia, Potiskum,Zaki Biam, Gboko  etc and invest if you really believe in oneness of Nigeria.  Some folks have not done anything beyond their enclaves and they will be one to shout one Nigeria. Let one Nigeria start today. Let other folks match Igbo’s efforts in developing every nook and cranny in Nigeria. This will make alamajuris in Wusasa Junction to remember that his kinsmen have investments all over Naija, maybe they will be destroyed if they incite people to destroy Igbo’s investments.

Can you tell me why some folks like you cannot put their oney where their mouth is  ie  detribalized ONE NIGERIA

Donzman:

I've NEVER sided with docokwy on anything!

Really??! Go back & re-read your previous posts! Your assent to his remarks is so obvious. You were not only quick to jump to his defence, the defence was done with vicious glee!

Donzman:

@Laudate

Sorry, did I give other ethnic groups 5%?. . .I'm being generous, they gotta be less than 1% in reality. I wonder how many ethnic groups had their dead people shipped in trailers. . .and the best you can do is tell them to keep quiet because some other ethnic groups were killed here and there.

You really do have a problem Donzman. And its a simple one known as bigotry. Unfortunately, it has impaired your memory. Kindly point out in chapter & verse, where Laudate told the Igbo to keep quiet. You don't have to lie to get your points across. Neither do you have to exaggerate. That has always been your problem.

Donzman:

Again until people from whatever part of Nigeria you come from decide to go into other parts of Nigeria like Sokoto, Maidugiri, invest and make a living and get killed while doing it, you have no right to comment on the tribulations peace loving people go through.

Ofcourse the true Igbo to your tribalistic and anti-Igbo self are those who will sit down and accept your foolish reasoning which is[b] "since it wasn't only Igbos that got killed or had their property destroyed, they should keep quiet". [/b] Oh really?. . .I suppose Jews were the only victims of Hitler's cleansening! Those are not true Igbos, just cowardice ones unable to see through your tribalistic mask.

Those are your views Donzman, not mine. It is sad that you would describe your own kith & kin in such a derogatory maner. What are you trying to achieve with this? Anytime there is an issue on the front burner, you have always found a way to side-step the topic and use the civil war and its' losses, to avoid the main issue, and spread hate. Pray tell, where did Laudate say, "since it wasn't only Igbos that got killed or had their property destroyed, they should keep quiet"?  You even put it in quote, to make it seem as if you were repeating Laudate's words, verbatim. Must you lie over & over again, to get your points across?

Your clique was trying to present a 1-sided story, by making it look as if the Igbo were singled out for vindictive treatment in the Abuja demolition issue. All Laudate did, was to point out the fact that it wasn't a selective thing, and members of other tribes also lost their properties in the same exercise. So what is wrong with that? Was it a lie? And where did Laudate say that the Igbo should keep quiet? Donzman, quit making up stories. Your credibility is already badly damaged, even though you never had much to start with.

Donzman:

When you sayu Lagos is Yorubaland, it implies that non-Yorubas are living on Yorubaland which makes them second class citizens, that doesn't take much reasoning. It is logic like this that encouraged peope to seize Igbo properties after the civil war, based on what?. . .It's on Yorubaland. I imagine a true citizen won't have his property usurped in that manner by fellow Lagosians.

p.s.: Some Yorubas in Lagos treated Igbo properties well, others were just opportunistic brats!

Finally this claim you made that "__Lagos is Yorubaland, it implies that non-Yorubas are living on Yorubaland which makes them second class citizens, that doesn't take much reasoning," could only have come from a putrid, warped mind like your own. So those of us who are non-Yoruba Lagosians are now 2nd-class citizens in your eyes, abi? Thanks for the confirmation. Why am I not suprised?

On the issue of abandoned properties, it was something that was firmly entrenched in Rivers State. So why don't you direct your anger in that direction? Most of the Igbo who left their houses behind in the South-west got it back, even Dim Emeka Ojukwu. His father's houses on Queens Drive Ikoyi & in Apapa, were returned to him after he got back from exile. Do a quick check.

Donzman:

TOO BAD UNLIKE YOU, I'VE NEVER SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT ANY ETHNIC GROUP! Infact, I do not want to know anything bad about anybody, they can go on and live their lives. . .For the same reasons why I do not like anyone who says anything bad about my own people!

You being a tribalist is an established FACT of life!. . .Keep dancing naked, shameless trash.

Nah!!  It has been established time & time again, that the Ogbuefi of Tribalism on nairaland, is you Donzman. Go look in the mirror. The facts speak for themselves. 

You have moved a step up on the insults ladder. So the best you can come up with now, is "naked, shameless trash"? Is that all? Or is there more?

adconline:

Laudate

Eeyaah, this thing dey pain you well, well.   Last time I checked, adconline had the intelligence & capability to respond to questions directed to him, by others. Wetin come be your own? Abi you don do change of name to adconline? The reply I gave to adconline is still valid.

I wonder why you dabble into double standard in your postings. If it was cool for you to re-echo Wesylan’s sentiments ( oh may bad!!  Maybe she has a “low IQ” or her spokesman ) since it now the basis to agree with someone's position. Donzman was merely stressing his points which concurred with mine.  This has always been the tradition of this forum. The same thing you accused Donzman of doing, you ended up doing. Why do you argue this way?

Adconline, Donzman has a tradition of attacking Laudate on this forum. It doesn't even matter, if such remarks were directed at him, or not. Even when others have asked Laudate a direct question, (which had nothing to do with Donzman), or when Laudate has merely volunteered an opinion which was in no way directed at Donzman, he has always jumped in to the fray, to throw brick-bats in Laudate's direction, using the most putrid insults he can lay his hands on.

So what happened in that quote, was an attempt to give him a taste of his own medicine. I do not suffer fools gladly. If that offends your sensibilities, I do apologise.

adconline:

You also wanted us to believe you with un-statistical data even though you are not in the know to know better than El Rufai.Even though it may not be glaring to you, you sound like someone who is ready to distort history in order to make Igbos look like villains.  

Am not asking you to believe me with unstatistical data. Kindly do your own research and if it conflicts with mine, please put up the evidence. My colleague used to work in the Federal Capital territory as a town planner (ironically, he is an Igbo man). If you need any data, kindly look through any publications on the FCT and its' origin, and you will get some of this info. Kindly read up the SERAC Report of 2006, too. It states in part & I quote:

SERAC:
If the Abuja master plan had strictly been implemented by the federal government from the onset, perhaps the eviction and its dire consequences would have been averted.

           As the years went by, successive FCT administrations unfolded one plan after the other to deal with the numerous problems emerging within the FCT. This campaign took a fiercer dimension with the appointment of Mallam Nasir El-Rufai as the Minister in the presidency and chairman of the Federal Capital Development Authority in 2003 by President Olusegun Obasanjo. Mallam El-Rufai was particularly interested in restoring the Abuja Master Plan thus commenced an intensive demolition exercise of all structures allegedly built on land reserved for the passage of water and sewer lines, green areas, neighborhood centers and schools. Speaking on the demolitions the Minister is quoted as saying “this demolition thing is not going to affect just individuals; (it also) is going to affect government agencies.”

Now did the demolished houses contravene planning regulations or the Masterplan? If the demolished houses of the Igbo did not contravene any of the regulations outlined above, it is only then, that we can conclude that they were unjustly targeted. No one is making the Igbo look like villains. These are the facts.

1). Houses of Nigerians that cut across different ethnic groups were demolished. Settlements like Idu, Karmo etc. were levelled and the majority of those resident in the satellite communities along the Abuja Airport Road, including: Chika, Aleita, Galadimawa, Lugbe, Kuchigoro, Piwoyi, Pyakasa, Gosa and Karamajigi, were rendered homeless.

2). While the government has a responsibility to ensure a planned and orderly development of the FCT, this however does not and cannot justify the indiscriminate large-scale forced eviction of several hundred thousands of people without any planning and provision of effective legal remedies such as adequate notice, compensation, resettlement and rehabilitation.

This is the position of SERAC. I also share the same view. We all need to hold govt. accountable for providing alternatives to ALL these people, not just by condemning the demolitions & saying the Igbo were the victims!

You also claim: "you sound like someone who is ready to distort history in order to make Igbos look like villains." Pray tell, how did I distort history? Was it by saying other tribes were affected by the demolition, not just Igbo? Just how? Kindly outline it in chapter & verse.

adconline:

Its either that My Rufai's facts were incorrect or that 68% is the same thing as 32%. We are here to critically examine his statement not reinvent new rules in order to score some cheap tribal points. I hate it when Nigerians pretend that tribalism does not exist, even though its entrenched in our system. We elect presidents on tribal affiliations.

Is there something else I have missed out here? Who 'reinvented' new rules, please? Are you saying El-rufai cannot make an error? And for crying out loud, who is pretending that tribalism does not exist? You talk as if there was visible proof that tribalism was the raison d'etre behind the demolition exercise. And that is where I disagree with you. With all due respect!

If there is anything that offends me, it is when people try to make out that their own group is the only one suffering or being victimised. Sufffering, poverty, even tribalism, cuts across all ethnic groups. I have met tribalistic Yoruba people, tribalistic people from Hausa, Ogoni, Fulani, Ijaw, Idoma, Igala, Efik, Edo, Bachama, etc. ethnic groups, and I have also met tribalistic Igbo people. So what is new?

All I am saying, is that people should locate issues within the relevant and proper context. Period. If you say Igbos were victimised in the demolition exercise, would you say other ethnic groups got off scot-free? What we should be looking at, is why were 'Nigerians' dispossed of their properties and what kind of opportunities exist, to redress this anomaly. Simple. What can be done about their case? What are the solutions? Not playing the blame game, or fanning the embers of an ethnic war, like Donzman & his ilk keep doing.

Trying to see everything through tribal and religous prisms is bad.

The demolition in Abuja cannot be said to be targeted at any group after all the Deputy Senate President had his house demolished so what are we talking about?

About abandoned properties, I guess it is an issue Saro Wiwa championed when he was appointed the youngest commissioner after the creation of Rivers State so it is an issue we have with Rivers state. I cannot remember Yorubas seizing properties belonging to the Igbos.

I believe we are getting to the point where a lot of people will rather speak for themselves rather than allow greedy and self centred people speak for them.

adconline:

I would also want you to respond to my previous post.

Nigeria is one even though it took your kinsmen 47 years to figure out that another man who is not of their tribe should occupy the presidency.

Any reason for this act?

Who are my kinsmen, please? Kindly specify the exact group you are referring to because my kinsmen cut across all ethnic groups. And since am only one person, not a multitude, I cannot claim to speak for all of my kinsmen. Any opinion I proffer on this matter, would be mine & mine alone. To answer this question would call for an in-depth analysis of all the elections that have been held in this country till date, which brought in the various leaders of this country. It would also require an in-depth examination of each candidate's campaign & the political strategies & manouevres that led to their successes or defeat, especially the reasons why they failed. I do not have insider knowledge of this issue & since am not clairvoyant, I cannot do any guesswork to arrive at the answers.

adconline:

As per victim mentality, a comparison is based on two or more known conditions. Igbos know what Awo’s 20 pounds could achieve in a short period of time.  Igbos have shaken hands beyond river Niger. They have far more invested and diversified in Nigeria than any other tribes. We don’t have to continuously talk about one Nigeria. Show me. Don’t invest in Abuja, because it’s the headquarters for national allocation. Don’t invest in PH because there is oil. Go to Umuahia, Potiskum,Zaki Biam, Gboko  etc and invest if you really believe in oneness of Nigeria.   Some folks have not done anything beyond their enclaves and they will be one to shout one Nigeria. Let one Nigeria start today. Let other folks match Igbo’s efforts in developing every nook and cranny in Nigeria. This will make alamajuris in Wusasa Junction to remember that his kinsmen have investments all over Naija, maybe they will be destroyed if they incite people to destroy Igbo’s investments.

Can you tell me why some folks like you cannot put their oney where their mouth is  ie  detribalized ONE NIGERIA

"War is nothing, but the absence of wisdom".   Can't remember who said that. Awolowo was not a saint, despite his achievements. Did he have cause to regret his actions before he died? Who knows? Even though it is on record that he tried to build alliances with the East in the 1979 elections, we may only guess at his frame of mind, in his last days. It is sad that the losses of the war cannot be restored by pointing fingers at the dead. Contrary to your impression however, many of us have moved beyond our enclave. We have studied & travelled in other areas, different from the ones where our ancestors hailed from. And because of that, we can recognise that poverty, tribalism, hardship etc. (and everything that conspires to keep Nigerians down), has many forms and can be found in all districts. It is not restricted to a particular zone or ethnic group.

Having an investment in area that is different from your own, does not always mean that you believe in the unity of that place. It merely means that you can recognise a good business investment or opportunity & you are ready to take advantage of it. People do this in all countries, all the time, and will continue to do so as long as such a country is not on the brink of war.

Finally, haven't you seen landowners, businessmen, industrialists, landlords or property tycoons who would invest in an area and yet still harbour ill-feelings towards the residents of such areas? Haven't you heard of tribalistic landlords who would gladly build a mansion in one area, but would deny their offspring the chance to pick a spouse from the same area, where their properties are located? Is it all the financiers of the ethnic militia e.g. OPC, AREWA, MASSOB, MEND etc. that do not have any property outside their geographical locations or ethnic areas?

We should be looking for a way to heal the wounds of the war, not exacerbate it. We gain nothing by villifying one ethnic group, or putting down another in order to make our own group look big.

adconline:

Can you tell me why some folks like you cannot put their oney where their mouth is  ie  detribalized ONE NIGERIA

Kindly be more more explicit. Put my "money where my mouth is", in what sense? Are you talking within the context of ownership of property? Do you know what my investment profile looks like? 

Why are folks here reffering to themselves in the third person in so many of their posts.

Enough of all these shit!!!
Hey guys, I am one those few ones who believe in the unity of this great country call Nigeria.
we have all come of age be it Yoruba,Hausa,Igbo or any other ethnic group. There is no part of this country will u see only hausa neither will u see only yoruba nor Igbo.
we must learn to leave together as one.
we can talk of so many things that we have learnt from one another , oil,food agriculture, minded business individuals have contribute a lot into the country development so far.
it is very important we see ourself as one so as for generation unborn will not blame us for our mistake.
ask Darfur, Somaila, uganda, Rwanda, Irag people and other country that have experience war of what is it like , they will explain to u better.
it is high time we forget country disintegration and think of building the country numerous resources for use for our development.

Your clique was trying to present a 1-sided story, by making it look as if the Igbo were singled out for vindictive treatment in the Abuja demolition issue. All Laudate did, was to point out the fact that it wasn't a selective thing, and members of other tribes also lost their properties in the same exercise. So what is wrong with that? Was it a lie? And where did Laudate say that the Igbo should keep quiet? Donzman, quit making up stories. Your credibility is already badly damaged, even though you never had much to start with.

See how you engage in cheap self deceit?. . .So you pointed out that the properties of other ethnic groups were destroyed hoping to achieve what exactly?. . .YOU TELL ME if it isn't in a bid to water down the treatment handed down to Igbos. Those are your views, the Igbos should keep quiet since they were not the nly ones affected, what a BIGOT!

[On the issue of abandoned properties, it was something that was firmly entrenched in Rivers State. So why don't you direct your anger in that direction? Most of the Igbo who left their houses behind in the South-west got it back, even Dim Emeka Ojukwu. His father's houses on Queens Drive Ikoyi & in Apapa, were returned to him after he got back from exile. Do a quick check.

Last I checked we weren't talking about Rivers, we were discussing Lagos. Same thing happened in Rivers and many other states were Igbos were living.

Ojukwu got his house back, damn right he will. On the statement that MOST Igbos got their properties back, that's a HUGE LIE. Not only are you defending injustice, you're now denying it. You remind me alot of Ahmadinejad with his genocide denial masked in intelligent thought. Igbo properties were seized in Lagos as well as other states by opportunists, it was a federal law!!. Kudos to the good Yorubas who were their brother's keeper, too bad they were highly outnumbered by opportunists!

Nah!!   It has been established time & time again, that the Ogbuefi of Tribalism on nairaland, is you Donzman. Go look in the mirror. The facts speak for themselves. 

I speak out against injustice, I do not go from thread to thread attempting to water it down or outrightly deny it, I'm notthing like you, BIGOTED TRIBALIST

I'm not the first person to tell you this below, many other people have said it and now adconline, too bad you do not heed:

You also wanted us to believe you with un-statistical data even though you are not in the know to know better than El Rufai.Even though it may not be glaring to you, you sound like someone who is ready to distort history in order to make Igbos look like villains.   

TRUTH!

Donzman:

See how you engage in cheap self deceit?. . .So you pointed out that the properties of other ethnic groups were destroyed hoping to achieve what exactly?. . .YOU TELL ME if it isn't in a bid to water down the treatment handed down to Igbos. Those are your views, the Igbos should keep quiet since they were not the nly ones affected, what a BIGOT!

Cheap self-deceit? But that is your true character trait, Donzman. You are well-known for it.  Each time you pull out a lie from your bag of tricks & people shoot it down, you reach for an insult from the same bag, to justify your falsehood. Wasn't it on this same site that you used the word 'hypocrite' when I said anyone who speaks Yoruba should be able to understand Itsekiri? What was your pathetic, ill-bred response then? Continue your tirade. One day, you might be appointed the Minister of Insults on nairaland. You claim that I pointed out that the properties of other ethnic groups were destroyed hoping to achieve what exactly?. It was pointed out in order to achieve balance, and correct the erroneous impression being fostered that, houses owned by the Igbo were unfairly targeted for demolition, on the grounds of ethnicity. Go figure!

The properties of people from other ethnic groups were destroyed. Yes or No? Even you agreed on that score. Why does that fact now offend you so much? You claim it was an attempt to water down the treatment handed to the Igbo. This is another attempt on your part, to brainwash people on this thread. This is cyberspace, my friend not a mushroom lecture hall owned by Donzman. Not everyone can be taken for a ride, like you are trying to do. Would you have preferred it if I had agreed with the fallacy that only Igbo people were affected by the demolition exercise?  Let us all know. You also keep saying "Those are your (sic. Laudate's) views, the Igbos should keep quiet since they were not the nly ones affected," and I keep saying "point me to that part of my post where I made the statement in black & white". You have been unable to do so. Doesn't this prove that you trade in falsehood?

Donzman:

Last I checked we weren't talking about Rivers, we were discussing Lagos. Same thing happened in Rivers and many other states were Igbos were living.

Ojukwu got his house back, damn right he will. On the statement that MOST Igbos got their properties back, that's a HUGE LIE. Not only are you defending injustice, you're now denying it.

Please point out the parts of Lagos where Igbo people lost their properties, and we will take it from there. Only then, can we believe you. The case of Rivers state has been well-documented. There are so many references to it. Even in Benin, rents for houses owned by the Igbo were kept in a special account till after the war & paid back to them. Ogbemudia ensured they got it back. Your claim of Lagos being involved, is so hard to believe without documentary evidence. Until I see any evidence to this effect, I still believe that Lagos was not part of the abandoned property issue. Not all the propaganda you dish out can change that. The leader of the Biafran war, got his properties returned. Or is that not a fact? There was even more reason for government to hang unto his properties, and I do not recall any speech made by Ojukwu, where he said the properties of Igbo in Lagos had been seized. If he did, kindly paste it here and I will apologise. But till then, I stand by my words.

Donzman:

You remind me alot of Ahmadinejad with his genocide denial masked in intelligent thought. Igbo properties were seized in Lagos as well as other states by opportunists, it was a federal law!!. Kudos to the good Yorubas who were their brother's keeper, too bad they were highly outnumbered by opportunists!

Donzman, you need help. I have always told you that. Seek help before it is too late. You are seeing ghosts that do not exist. Character assassination, especially the type you love to indulge in, clearly marks you as a person who suffers from hallucination. It is a bad sign.

Obviously, this federal law you referred to, was observed in Rivers state. I do not deny its' existence. Since you claim that there were some good Yorubas who held the properties of the Igbo in trust for them, can you tell us the proportion of those good Yorubas vis-a-vis the bad ones? Since it was a federal law, why do you want us to believe that some Yoruba people chose to obey it, while others chose to disobey it? Since it was a federal law, why did the Igbo in Benin & other parts of Edo state get their properties back, while those in Rivers state lost it?

Donzman:

I speak out against injustice, I do not go from thread to thread attempting to water it down or outrightly deny it, I'm notthing like you, BIGOTED TRIBALIST

I'm not the first person to tell you this below, many other people have said it and now adconline, too bad you do not heed:

You speak out against injustice ONLY when it affects your people. Don't misrepresent the facts. For you, other ethnic groups are fair game for your tribalistic cartel to take pot shots at! As for the term BIGOTED TRIBALIST which you keep tossing around, I insist that the title is better suited to you Donzman. The cap fits you well, m'sieur so wear it!

Hmmn, you claim "I'm not the first person to tell you this below, many other people have said it and now adconline,". What a joke! Am I supposed to quake in fear at this silly remark? I have done a quick check on those who have called me names on this thread and they are not more than five or six, at the max.   And guess what? They all belong without exception, to your tribalistic cartel. Now, why would you refer to five or six people as "many other people?" Let me guess, you failed maths in school, too. What a pity. Truth be told, I feel really flattered to discover that I have nothing in common with your tribalistic cartel. I really do not want to see life, through their warped lens of bigotry. You however, are free to continue wallowing in the tribalistic mud, for as long as you wish, since that is how you get your kicks.

If I recall, adconline did NOT call me a tribalist, or did I miss it somewhere? I want to believe he has too much manners to do that, and he can read between the lines, and judge for himself what is right & what is wrong, unlike you.

So stop looking for new recruits into your tribalistic army, Donzman. Not everyone suffers from the same brand of hate, that you take great delight in spreading on this board.

@Laudate

Mind over matter, I believe I've achieved what I set out to achieve, so I don't mind you anymore and at such, you don't matter!

Now be a good Nigerian from here on, any tribalism from you and you know who will be there!

There was even more reason for government to hang unto his properties, and I do not recall any speech made by Ojukwu, where he said the properties of Igbo in Lagos had been seized. If he did, kindly paste it here and I will apologise. But till then, I stand by my words.

You might want to check out demostrations at Ojukwu's Ikoyi home after the war, demanding the retutn of Igbo properties in Lagos. It was after that, that some of the properties were returned by mild opportunists.

Since it was a federal law, why did the Igbo in Benin & other parts of Edo state get their properties back, while those in Rivers state lost it?

Ogbemudia did good for Igbos in Bendel, even at that my grandfather did not get his properties at Sapele back. LOTS of Igbos lost properties all over Nigeria

laudate
^{Who are my kinsmen, please? Kindly specify the exact group you are referring to because my kinsmen cut across all ethnic groups. And since am only one person, not a multitude, I cannot claim to speak for all of my kinsmen. Any opinion I proffer on this matter, would be mine & mine alone. To answer this question would call for an in-depth analysis of all the elections that have been held in this country till date, which brought in the various leaders of this country. It would also require an in-depth examination of each candidate's campaign & the political strategies & manouevres that led to their successes or defeat, especially the reasons why they failed. I do not have insider knowledge of this issue & since am not clairvoyant, I cannot do any guesswork to arrive at the answers.}

I did not know that you came from over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria except Igbos. Good luck. I was referring to Yorubas since you defended Yoruba issues in relation to Lagos and land ownership.



^{Having an investment in area that is different from your own, does not always mean that you believe in the unity of that place. It merely means that you can recognise a good business investment or opportunity & you are ready to take advantage of it. People do this in all countries, all the time, and will continue to do so as long as such a country is not on the brink of war.}

Investing in all nooks and crannies will make  every Tom , Dick and Harry equal opportunity investors and losers in times of tribal conflicts. Would an Igbo man  destroy an investment that belongs to Hausa man when he knows that his brother’s investment in Kano is on the line? I don’t believe that Nigeria will be one, but we can co-habit and co-exist freely. Americans have their racial divisions, so Nigeria is not different, but there has to be equity and fairness.

^{We should be looking for a way to heal the wounds of the war, not exacerbate it. We gain nothing by villifying one ethnic group, or putting down another in order to make our own group look big.}

Nigeria is not ready to heal the wound of the war. 3Rs were not followed to the later. Igbos have moved on, but there must equality of stakes if Nigeria wants to move, instead, Nigeria still runs on tribal lines. Presidency, university admissions, appointment of board chairmen, federal character commission, national awards, appointment of SANs etc


^{Now each state in the country, was allocated land in the Abuja masterplan, when the idea of the Federal Capital Territory was concieved. Out of 31 states in Nigeria, Northern states (not Hausa states o! There is a difference please take note!), like I was saying, Northern states are 19 out of 31 states, that make up Nigeria. That come to roughly 61%, I believe. So if the Northern states received 61% of the total land allocations in Abuja, (El-rufai says it is 68%, don't think he is accurate), would you say it makes sense?}

Still  telling us to believe that Rufai made a mistake in front of  PDP South East caucus,  I rather stick with El Rufai’s  figures than yours. Are you saying that Nigeria had 31 states in late 70’s when Abuja was decreed as Nigeria’s new capital?

Donzman:

@Laudate

Mind over matter, I believe I've achieved what I set out to achieve, so I don't mind you anymore and at such, you don't matter!

Now be a good Nigerian from here on, any tribalism from you and you know who will be there!

Donzman, what have you achieved except to show the world that you are afflicted with an unhealthy putrid, tribalistic mentality and a flair for myopic insults? You ooze tribalism Donzman, that's why no one takes you seriously anymore. And that silly threat of yours' is ridiculous, pathetic and asinine. Who died and made you sheriff? _*Hiss*

You need to check into a clinic to cure this unhealthy obsession you have for Laudate. Stop hanging to my coat tails like a puppy.

Donzman:

You might want to check out demostrations at Ojukwu's Ikoyi home after the war, demanding the retutn of Igbo properties in Lagos. It was after that, that some of the properties were returned by mild opportunists.

Ogbemudia did good for Igbos in Bendel, even at that my grandfather did not get his properties at Sapele back. LOTS of Igbos lost properties all over Nigeria

Post the evidence & the links, and stop relying on hearsay. The days of rabid propaganda are over. You obviously didn't own one single piece of property in the South-west before the war, so stop trying to puff as if you had anything on the ground that was taken from you. Rubbish!

adconline:

laudate
I did not know that you came from over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria except Igbos. Good luck. I was referring to Yorubas since you defended Yoruba issues in relation to Lagos and land ownership.

Next time, don't assume. Ask. And please try not to jump to the wrong conclusions, like your friend Donzman often does. Just because I defended one ethnic group, (and if you check my posts, I have defended other groups, too!) or because I highlighted some facts concerning a particular area, does not mean I have my roots in that area. And if your reference to 'coming from 250 ethnic groups', was meant to be sarcastic, or was written in order to cause some embarrassment, then sorry, your tactics didn't succeed.

adconline:

Investing in all nooks and crannies will make  every Tom , Dick and Harry equal opportunity investors and losers in times of tribal conflicts. Would an Igbo man  destroy an investment that belongs to Hausa man when he knows that his brother’s investment in Kano is on the line? I don’t believe that Nigeria will be one, but we can co-habit and co-exist freely. Americans have their racial divisions, so Nigeria is not different, but there has to be equity and fairness.

When investments are destroyed in times of tribal conflicts, it is often done by people who do not care what their brother owns in another part of the country. Rational thought rarely comes into play when such things happen. Usually, those carrying out such wanton destruction are motivated by hate, ignorance and anger. 'Who owns what,' is hardly ever the question in their minds. However, I agree with you on one point. i.e. we can co-habit and co-exist freely. And it will only happen, if people work towards achieving this goal, not just sit around and grumble about it.

adconline:

Nigeria is not ready to heal the wound of the war. 3Rs were not followed to the later. Igbos have moved on, but there must equality of stakes if Nigeria wants to move, instead, Nigeria still runs on tribal lines. Presidency, university admissions, appointment of board chairmen, federal character commission, national awards, appointment of SANs etc

If everyone had this mind-set that everything ran along tribal lines, then nobody would strive to achieve anything. We shouldn't fold their arms & give up, just because some things are run along tribal lines. What we should ask is[b] "what can be done to change the status quo?"[/b] We shouldn't just sit & grumble about it.

My views on the Presidency are long, but there isn't enough time to articulate it. When it comes to university admissions though, I still believe that excellence is the name of the game. If your scores are high (not borderline o!), please note: merit comes into play. It is usually when people have poor scores that issues like catchment area, quota etc. now arise.

There was a year in a particular university my cousin attended up north, that the highest JAMB scorer was offered admission by all the three universities he had picked as 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice. No one remembered where he came from, everyone just wanted him in their school, because he was a star performer. It was much later, everyone realised he was a Kalabari guy! But it didn't matter to anyone, because he had already gotten his admission.

adconline:

Still  telling us to believe that Rufai made a mistake in front of  PDP South East caucus,  I rather stick with El Rufai’s  figures than yours. Are you saying that Nigeria had 31 states in late 70’s when Abuja was decreed as Nigeria’s new capital?

Feel free to believe El-rufai's figures. Stick with it, afterall the disparity isn't that wide. But there is a little correction I must make here. Nigeria had 19 states in 1976, by the time a new capital was being created. If the results of the 1973 census which was used as the basis for planning were to be believed, then 'according to the returns submitted, the north contained 64 percent of the total population, compared with 53.7 percent in 1963 census.'

If you follow the pattern of state creation in Nigeria closely, from 1967 when a 12 state structure was in place, to 1976 when 7 more states were added to make the total number of states 19, you will see that this population size has been replicated for the North. In 1989, the 19 states were increased to 21, before finally becoming 30 states in 1991. By 1996, they had become 36 states. Most of the land in Abuja was shared out in this proportion, among all the states.

its amazing how people are happy to see that IGBO own 73% of the land in ABUJA, but if we say IGBO people are business oriented, same demented people are quick to insult and use vulgar word on us.

You stinky swine, Majamaja. What is the connection between politics and Igbo high rate of acquisition of land in Abuja? Is it the fault of Igbos that Yorubas prefer to do weekly Owambe and satisfy their drooping libido via marrying manifold wives (eg Abiola, Obasanjo etc) with borrowed capital instead of investing same in Abuja land? Nigerian presidency is turn turn. It will get to Igbos turn before any Yoruba presidency again.