tlops:

, but the quality we talk about today, was brought abt by patronage. if we need to develop industrially we need to try and believe in our own market, the govt has to lead the way. we'll fail at it, but we'll never achieve this if we dont try at all. China did not start manufacturing qlty on the first day, but they've developed their tech thus far,

that aside, are we sure this guys won buy the buses sef, or is part of their plan to buy generator for new york.

Are you certain about that? Cause patronage has yet to make the quality of the jelly rubbers shoes we are used to purchasing any better. What about the quality of those 1 dollar items we buy at the dollar stores? Why has patronage not resulted in improved quality? So what went wrong there? When we talk quality these days, most companies do not need to REDEFINE the standards. They already exist, all you have to do is make products that meet the already existing standards. And that is what many companies do today.

It's much better to have a foreign made product than Naija made product. Refuse disposal baskets used in Abuja were all made in UK. Naija radio airwaves are being bombarded by Fake UK and American accented DJs. So the fascination to be foreign is ingrained in our culture.

Kobojunkie:

lol

May I suggest you re-read your own post above? What has quality to do with number of expatriates/experts working in any particular company? The quality of a good is again not measured in the number of experts your company can hire. The actual quality of the final product that comes out is what people refer to when they speak of qualit? I can give you numerous examples of small businesses here that make higher quality products, in my opinion, than many of the multi-billion dollar corporations out there with all their experts up their wazoo.

Again, if a company can prove that it's product measures up, then fine, but I am 100% against spending money for substandard goods. I am against it, and apparently so is the Nigerian market since we still clamour for imports rather than settle for cheaper lower quality options produced right in our backyards.

For the umpteenth time, I don't give a hoot about CHINA. If you want to argue this thing, do not give me what you think personally of Chinese goods. Fact is there are many benchmarks out there to support the claim that not all Chinese made items are substandard as claimed and so I see no reason why I should yet again engage in another "Throw China under the bus so we can sing a patriotic song" battle.

Again, I am for Quality FIRST approach to government. You no like am, I am sorry but I believe patriotism ought to go hand in hand with common sense.

Ms. Kobo, perhaps you misunderstand what expert in a field means. Small business produce their own goods that have their own quality standards. Auto Engineering manufacturers are not small businesses, the standards of quality assurance in small business is NEVER THE SAME as large manufacturing industries. So YES when you have experts for instance in Auto engineering with expertise on body structures/frames, experts in Engine optimization for good auto engines, etc, these experts use their knowledge in fields of manufacturing to transform a product into quality standards per the ISO.

No one is claiming that they are substandard, in fact I recalled saying the Chinese companies did not start producing quality products in one day, it was a gradual process; therefore I have acknowledged that they produce quality products as well. Here yourself out " patriotism ought to go hand in hand with common sense. Do you know how much the Chinese Govt. spends annually as Grants to companies for R&? The Chinese Govt. buys their products and if the product isn't quality, they spend money to make the products better. For instance, the Govt. spent money on defense contractors through product testing for military planes etc. Even the U.S. spend billions of dollars to fund product testing for their military products, so why can't Nigerian govt do the same fund quality testing for these companies? After they have received the A+ rating, the Nigerian Govt. can endorse the products.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

dnt even wana waste my time reading some bull shits in here

now this is when i needed beaf badly

eko and kolo can argue till next year but where is common senses in all this

promoting chinese company to the detriment of nigerian firms is an act of evil

monkiess in human skulls [size=38pt]angry[/size]

cost more or less bullucks

even at this time of gobal economic difficulties the west still spend massively to stimulate their economy

All these Nigerians trying in futility to explain away an obvious unwise and even invidious economic policy decision really need to go to the school of common sense and wisdom.

I hope they still remember how "Nollywood" started in Nigeria.

There has been a so called movie industry in Nigeria (based mainly in western Nigeria) even BEFORE Nigerian  independence.

Such industry remained (and still remain) what it was/is - LOCAL AND RECIDIVISTIC.

When Nollywood started, it was mocked as low quality (some of it still is), and laughed at by the same segment of the old Nigerian movie industry.

Guess what? Today Nollywood has placed Nigeria on the WORLD map of film making, and some of its actors and actresses are now receiving acting roles in HOLLYWOOD.

Was there constant electricity before Nollywood started? OF COURSE NOT.

That is why I keep saying that the Igbo man's frustration in Nigeria, and our wish for a separate country stem from the fact that we don't share world view and philosophy with a BIG SEGMENT of the Nigerian nation.

It is frustrating that we cannot pursue our dreams in this country.

Some will come here to say well you have state, local government, et al. My answer to them is this: How can you win starting a business like Innoson Auto industry when you have the FEDERAL government of Nigeria always trying to undermine you either deliberately or unwittingly?

If we have a Biafra, I can assure you that we will dominate African technology and production because the Biafran government will support them WHOLLY.  

So, let me ask again, Why are we still one nation?  

manny4life:


Ms. Kobo, perhaps you misunderstand what expert in a field means. Small business produce their own goods that have their own quality standards. Auto Engineering manufacturers are not small businesses, the standards of quality assurance in small business is NEVER THE SAME as large manufacturing industries. So YES when you have experts for instance in Auto engineering with expertise on body structures/frames, experts in Engine optimization for good auto engines, etc, these experts use their knowledge in fields of manufacturing to transform a product into quality standards per the ISO.

No one is claiming that they are substandard, in fact I recalled saying the Chinese companies did not start producing quality products in one day, it was a gradual process; therefore I have acknowledged that they produce quality products as well. Here yourself out " patriotism ought to go hand in hand with common sense. Do you know how much the Chinese Govt. spends annually as Grants to companies for R&? The Chinese Govt. buys their products and if the product isn't quality, they spend money to make the products better. For instance, the Govt. spent money on defense contractors through product testing for military planes etc. Even the U.S. spend billions of dollars to fund product testing for their military products, so why can't Nigerian govt do the same fund quality testing for these companies? After they have received the A+ rating, the Nigerian Govt. can endorse the products.

I disagree with 99.9% of what you have above, and this is because I believe most of what you have above is WRONG>

I dont think this is any good a deal.
At 10,000,000(ten million) per bus, this sounds rather too expensive considering that Nigerian govt is buying in large quantity.

manny4life:


Ms. Kobo, perhaps you misunderstand what expert in a field means. Small business produce their own goods that have their own quality standards. Auto Engineering manufacturers are not small businesses, the standards of quality assurance in small business is NEVER THE SAME as large manufacturing industries. So YES when you have experts for instance in Auto engineering with expertise on body structures/frames, experts in Engine optimization for good auto engines, etc, these experts use their knowledge in fields of manufacturing to transform a product into quality standards per the ISO.

No one is claiming that they are substandard, in fact I recalled saying the Chinese companies did not start producing quality products in one day, it was a gradual process; therefore I have acknowledged that they produce quality products as well. Here yourself out " patriotism ought to go hand in hand with common sense. Do you know how much the Chinese Govt. spends annually as Grants to companies for R&? The Chinese Govt. buys their products and if the product isn't quality, they spend money to make the products better. For instance, the Govt. spent money on defense contractors through product testing for military planes etc. Even the U.S. spend billions of dollars to fund product testing for their military products, so why can't Nigerian govt do the same fund quality testing for these companies? After they have received the A+ rating, the Nigerian Govt. can endorse the products.

I AGREE WITH YOU

How do you guys think asia got in the position to be supplying the world with thier products? PROTECTIONISM PROTECTIONISM PROTECTIONISM.

That is how hyundai started the korean goverment literaly outlawed any vehicle not assembled in korea. do you think hyundai would have been able to compete without this edge? no.

Africa is the least protectionist continent in the world and it shows.

adconline:

It's much better to have a foreign made product than Naija made product. Refuse disposal baskets used in Abuja were all made in UK.  Naija radio airwaves are being bombarded by Fake UK and American accented DJs. So the fascination to be foreign is ingrained in our culture.

Even there are foreign made Nigerians all over NairaLand, and their patriotism is suspect. I am sure non of them patronize made in Naija goods o.

The argument by some people here that china should be patronised over local manufacturers based on expertise is flawed.
Like someone rightly pointed out, china will always produce at a lower cost but our local manufacturing should be stimulated at all cost
simply because the eventual benefits of doing so out-weigh buying cheap from china. we all know what they are.

If less efficient  local manufacturing is not patronised then how will they ever improve.
Remember that most 1st world countries have indigenous car plants which are not at par with each other; did they abandon their local ones? No
(otherwise only germany will be making cars by now)

hackney:

The argument by some people here that china should be patronised over local manufacturers based on expertise is flawed.
Like someone rightly pointed out, china will always produce at a lower cost but our local manufacturing should be stimulated at all cost
simply because the eventual benefits of doing so out-weigh buying cheap from china. we all know what they are.

If less efficient  local manufacturing is not patronised then how will they ever improve.
Remember that most 1st world countries have indigenous car plants which are not at par with each other; did they abandon their local ones? No
(otherwise only germany will be making cars by now)

Monkey

Under the scheme being brokered by the Urban Development Bank of Nigeria (UDBN) for the Nigeria Labour Congress (NLC) and Trade Union Congress (TUC), about 550 urban mass transit buses would be injected to the Nigerian transport system.
Already, NLC and TUC have signed a contract agreement with a Chinese firm, Yutong Hong Kong Limited, for the bus supply.


According to him, unlike the past schemes where buses were released to beneficiaries free of charge, the N10 billion is a revolving loan with five per cent interest rate and repayment plan of five years or less.


On the controversy that trailed the NLC-Yutong deal, Oyinloye explained that the bank was just a financial adviser in the pact, stressing that it did not introduce Yutong to NLC.
According to him, NLC had been dealing with Yutong long before the current deal, which involved the bank at advisory level.

I don't think its government buying Chinese buses. It looks like a private arrangement between NLC/TUC and a Chinese company.

Kobojunkie:

I disagree with 99.9% of what you have above, and this is because I believe most of what you have above is WRONG>

YES MADAM KOBO.

@@@@@

and the russian made cars are still selling as we speak in Russia

@hackney: The point is that you have to pick and choose which industries you want to support in some way. Only a slowpoke (or very wealthy man) heavily subsidizes industries in which he doesn't have a competitive advantage. You look for things where you aren't too far off from what the leader is doing, then subsidize those to try to expand.

But for obvious reasons, car manufacturing isn't one of those things for Nigeria at this point in time.

@Onlytruth: Feel free to pursue your own dreams. If you are strong enough to make them a reality, that is. . .

manny4life:



YES MADAM KOBO.

To beat Kobo, you must be able to score with every part of your body because Kobo is always changing the goal post, like a schizophrenic

You guys forgot that 504, 404 were made by peugeot nigeria and some of them are still running on the road till now. So what are they talking about quality, some of the people here need to go take an econmics class. The money multiplier effect. If the government were to put that money into the economy, that would produce more jobs and not depress the naira value. U guys forgot that there was a time PAN was the official government car and ALL those cars were assembled in Nigeria. Why do we bring ourselves down, why do we sell our selves short, why do we think we cant do better than the chinese. That contract for those buses would definitely make INNOSON factory hire more people which would reduce unemployment and those employed people would spend the money in the economy which would make the economy grow, its a multiplier effect people. For people insisting on the chinese made buses are higher quality. How are u sure their buses would even last or their quality would be better than the nigerian one. U dont know. U are just assuming their quality would be better and assuming INNOSON is worse off. All ur arguements here are all based on assumptions.
The Chinese would bring low quality buses and the guys in charge would make a killing form the profits.
The US government before giving out any defense contract would make sure there is local content involved, at least 30-40% should be local content and also AFFIRMATIVE action in some of the contract.
ALWAYS REMENBER PAN NIGERIAN AND VOLKSWAGEN NIGERIA. THERE WAS A TIME IT WAS THE IT AND EVERYONE DROVE THEM AND SOMEOF THEM ARE STILL ON THE ROADS TODAY.
NEVER EVER SELL UR COUNTRY SHORT. WE CAN BE GREAT,
Everybody knew chrysler and GM sucks but 90% of US government vehicles is GM OR FORD. THE US GOVERNMENT NEVER ALLOWED GM FAIL CUS OF THE EMPLOYMENT LOSS INSTEAD THEY PUMPED MONEY INTO THEM WHICH THEY NOT SURE OF GETTING BACK.

IF U GUYS ARE SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT QUALITY,, WHY DONT U GUYS SUGGEST SOMETHING IN THE LINE OF CHINA MAKING THE DRIVE TRAIN AND INNOSON DOING THE FINAL ASSEMBLY IN NIGERIA. THAT WAY, THERE IS LOCAL CONTENT INVOLVED. THIS IS COMMON SENSE.

U ALL ARE HERE ARGUING ABOUT QUALITY AND QUALITY. I WEEP FOR NIGERIA.
ABSOLUTELY 10 BILLION NAIRA OUT OF NIGERIA, AM PRETTY SURE THEY ARE PAID IN DOLLARS SO THAT WOULD EVEN PUT DOWNWARD PRESSURE ON THE NAIRA.

SOME PEEPS HERE NEED TO TAKE AN ECONOMY CLASS.
EMBRAER IS A BRAZILLIAN COMPANY THAT MAKES AIRCRAFT. THE E-SERIES. WHEN THEY STARTED, THEIR GOVERNMENT HELPED THEM WITH LOANS AND PATRONAGE AND NOW EMBRARER IS NUMBER 4 IN DELIVERIES WORLDWIDE AFTER BOEING, AIRBUS , BOMBARDIER.
WHEN THEY STARTED, AM PRETTY SURE THAT BOEING QUALITY WAS BETTER BUT THEY STILL MARCHED ON AND NOW LOOK WHERE THEY ARE.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY , MOST OF THE 56 SEATER LUXURIOUS BUSES IN NIGERIA ARE MADE IN BRAZIL i.e (Marcopolo brazil), china is a new player in that industry so stop screaming about their quality

Nobody has even quoted a price from the two indigenous bus companies. To some extent we are all just blathering w/o having #s to compare.

@KA24DETT

Don't mind the mofos, we cry about mounting trade balance that we import so much that our reserve is gradually depleting because we don't have much dollars to supply for import, yet another $50+ million was added to that deficit. I weep for my dear country; QUALITY talk is all bullshit. Govt. in countries have shown times with flinching for a second that they are willing to protect their industries at all cost. It's good the way you called out Embrarer, that is a company that is heavily sponsored by the Brazilian govt; Bombardier actually accused their govt of constantly funding them and dragged them before the World Trade Organization council. The same is with Boeing accusing Airbus (subsidiary of BAE). Bottom line if their govt. were not helping this companies at all cost to be competitive,and pushed them to produce quality products, how would they survive?

I maintain again, what is preventing Nigerian Govt. from actually funding these companies to achieve International Standards of Quality Assurance since that tends to be the problem? No they won't but rather look up to China and India for their problem resolve. Nigeria can NEVER achieve it's rating until our govt. willing participate in the process.

WHY china

A DAMN SHAME,

People stiil belive in (ONE NIGERIA) too bad!!!

We are here arguing while the mumu-in-chief has endorsed and signed the contract

Nigeria must wake up!

"UDBN PLC, established by decree No. 51 of 1992 of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to foster rapid development of urban infrastructure throughout the federation through the provision of finance and banking services, was incorporated as a Public Liability Company in 1993.

UDBN PLC is a bank with majority shares privately owned, a publicly chartered financial service enterprise, with unique function to enhance the flow of credit to infrastructure sector at competitive rates. For more information,"



http://www.udbng.com/aboutUs.php



So UDBN, TUC, and NLC are not under the federal government's watch and people are complaining? They can buy buses from whoever they want.

Who will even buy that fake innoson scrap called motor ? Abeg we need to guarantee the lives of nigerians and put sentiments apart.
This is exactly this same thing that happened to Inec when it was forced to buy fake zinox computers when it could have contracted Hp to supply correct laptops.rubbish

pleep:

How do you guys think asia got in the position to be supplying the world with thier products? PROTECTIONISM PROTECTIONISM PROTECTIONISM.

That is how hyundai started the korean goverment literaly outlawed any vehicle not assembled in korea. do you think hyundai would have been able to compete without this edge? no.

Africa is the least protectionist continent in the world and it shows.

You make the most salient point in this thread. Thank you

It is well known in basic economic classes that when China wanted 30 airplanes from Boeing in the 1980s, they gave the Seattle based Boeing the contract against Airbus on only one condition: 10 planes to be imported fully assembled, 10 planes to be as knock-down parts and assembled in China, and 10 planes to assembled with materials from China and with Chinese engineers's assistance.

In India, the GM motor company was granted license to establisha factory based on initial 50:50 basis with the Indian people. And additional 1% to India every year, so after 50 years today the company is 100% Indian owned. ----and there many other examples!
The question is why do our ploicy makers learn from simple World economic, or are they just too compromised to do the right thing?

pluto04:

I don't think its government buying Chinese buses. It looks like a private arrangement between NLC/TUC and a Chinese company.

Does water flow uphill in this place called Nigeria
The united autoworkers and other trade unions here in US fought for more than 30 years to limit auto imports in the country because it will take jobs away from members.
In Nigeria, the reverse is the case. The NUC/TUC cannot and should not support spending such an amount of money in China when they could have easily expanded their membership here in Nigeria by having people work in factories that make these vehicles. Oh, Iget it, NUC thinks that the Chinese workers who build these bus also belongs to NUC? What a shame

Is this Innoson as well known, outside of the internet, as people think it is? There's probably a reason they never even bothered about Innoson - they probably have no idea about the capabilities or limitations of the company.

Remember, this deal was for 550 buses (mass transit). How many buses did Innoson make for Enugu? 30. Whether Innoson was capable or not may not be the issue. Nobody knows whether they're capable. Same for Anammco. They need to promote themselves more/better, probably.

You are possibly right that it may be the officials have no knowledge of the existence of Innoson.