Left to me China should never get anything from Nigeria because they do not deserve it. Go to Europe and America and all the other developed countries you will see Nigerians working in big companies and corporations. Olusegun Aganga readily comes to mind. At least europe and america dey give us work.

How many nigeria professionals will go to china and get a job? i am sure it will be like 0%. They treat us like say we be wild animals yet dey will come to our country and our govt go dash them our money. What a shame.

I pray INNOSON will succeed if only to prove these our myopic and inferior complexed nigerians wrong.

manny4life:

Found it, it was the FOXCOMM Company AKA Foxcomm Suicide factory, read the news from any reliable sourle like MSNBC, Washington Post, et al.

you are indirectly echoing what i stated

do you think apple has not dropped FOXCOMM like hot coals by now or enforced proper practices?

no bluechip firm will want this sort of bad publicity

How many nigeria professional will go to china and get a job? i am sure it will be like 0%. They treat us like say we be wild animals yet dey will come to our country and our govt go dash them our money. What a shame.

how many nigerians can speak chinese? come to think of it - how many foreigners do you think are working in china in the first place?

the argument has now turned to labour, meanwhile it is the same Labour Congress that has gone to China to buy these buses.

Nigerians are a confused lot. Not knowing where to lay their problems.

VOTE Labour.

oyb:

how many nigerians can speak chinese? come to think of it - how many foreigners do you think are working in china in the first place?

There are thousands of Nigerians that speak Chinese. My Uncle currently live there but as a hustler. Most of their women will not even date a blackman because of this inherent racism.

There are millions of Nigerians who will learn to speak China if mutual opportunities exists. What about India. How many nigerians can go there and get job? Abi no be english dem dey speak there?

Bottomline, Nigeria govt does not serve it's people at all. they only serve their own interest hence awarding contracts to the likes of China.

Even China-man they use nigerians for slave labour even in naija sef. if you don't know please ask around.

oyb:

you are indirectly echoing what i stated

do you think apple has not dropped FOXCOMM like hot coals by now or enforced proper practices?

no bluechip firm will want this sort of bad publicity



how many nigerians can speak chinese? come to think of it - how many foreigners do you think are working in china in the first place?

Not if you tell me what company they are using now, besides, China doesn't have their own tech so they could be using experts in their field.

We are still lucky today that we still have some America and European companies in the Oil Sector. The day wey nigeria govt will wake up and decide to give everything to the china-man, That will be the final nail in the coffin. Almost all the current oil worker will 'jar' meehn!!!

Nobody go dey pray to get oil work again then I tell u

Why is Innoson employing majority Chinese and not Nigerians?

Who said they are employing majority chinese eh?

who says they dont?

Inosson reminds me of the plastic UK dustbin saga here on NairaLand.

This debate has taken a hilarious turn.
It's funny how people get up in arms over tribal sentiments. One would hope that the likes of Demain_man and FACE would happily pick an Innoson motor over a Toyota Camry. One also hopes that they are currently typing on a Zinox laptop (remember say na one of una people get Zinox).

Did I also see someone say prospective owners should check the vehicle manuals for safety test information AFTER making the purchase?

Like seriously people should stop , What if he isn't typing on a Zinox computer, and not riding in a Toyota Camry, so what? So we should limit our ability to start from the scratch and improve on our potentials right? I honestly believe that manufacturing in Nigeria is selling theirselves short because if people in Nigeria don't want to buy it, other people in other African nations would. On that not why you comparing Innoson to Camry, try and compare it other non-brand cars at least that way you know that your compared it fairly.

texazzpete:

This debate has taken a hilarious turn.
It's funny how people get up in arms over tribal sentiments. One would hope that the likes of Demain_man and FACE would happily pick an Innoson motor over a Toyota Camry. One also hopes that they are currently typing on a Zinox laptop (remember say na one of una people get Zinox).

Did I also see someone say prospective owners should check the vehicle manuals for safety test information AFTER making the purchase?

Why are you comparing a 56-seater Innoson bus with a Toyota Camry?
You don't know the difference or you just want to score a cheap point by confusing the issue

Demain_man:

Who said they are employing majority chinese eh?

That's a good question, hopefully it is leading to technology transfer as we speak

oyb (m)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: naijaking1 on Today at 01:50:31 PM
Safety is important, but do you want to hold a local vehicle manufacturing company to ransom while allowing Japanese and Chinese death traps on Nigerian roads? The issue of safety should be applied to all vehicles and accross the board, if you single out Innoson vehicles and starting chanting safety, safety, then it looks not-so-smart, because all the Japanese "match boxes" or Toyota Hiace vehicles plying Nigerian roads are not seem on US roads because the cost of passing American safety standards are just too high for them. Many of the vehicles currently imported from Japan and China are not roadworthy in US.

The result is that they ship these coffins-on-four-wheels to Nigeria. It's not a secret, how many "specially made vehicle" from Toyota, Nissan, and Mitshubishi do you see plying Nigeria roads that you never see on US highways, many. This is primarily because these vehicles can't pass safety stds here.
It's not up to a vehicle maker to enforce safety, it's up tp the government to enforce safety.


what on earth are you talking about? japanese cars are the most popular in the united states no one has ever ha d any issues with cars from japan. its korean cars

as to death traps, ask the thieving car dealers who bring in accident-ed, flood damaged and condemned cars as lightly used


This is where dishonesty begins to merge with ignorance. I did not reference all Japanese cars in general, but stated that there are some Japanese models that don't pass safety tests in US, but end up in Nigeria, eg have you ever seen Toyata Prado in the US? How about Toyota Hiace, even Coasters are not seen on US highways. Do you remember the Lexus 560 SUV that performed so badly in both safety, crash, and customers survey test last year that the model was basiclly removed from US market, well go to Nigeria, you'll see very big men driving them as if there is no tomorrow. Infact, I was almost run over by one emir's entourage that had 5 of those unsafe SUVs in their line up.

Don't confuse the issue, I'm not talking about Toyota Camry, or Corolla, or even Kia Sergento, but about mass transit vehicles.

No matter how you twist this issue, don't forget that the example was given because someone stated that safety checks must be applied to Innoson vehicles, and my position is that while safety remains ideal, its a goverment function, and needs to be applied to all vehicles, and not just Innoson's.

Innoson is not moter company, It is simply an assembler of Asian cars so quality Is about the same as yamaha hyndai or Toyota, The price is just lower becuz the vehicles are actually made here,

texazzpete:

This debate has taken a hilarious turn.
It's funny how people get up in arms over tribal sentiments. One would hope that the likes of Demain_man and FACE would happily pick an Innoson motor over a Toyota Camry. One also hopes that they are currently typing on a Zinox laptop (remember say na one of una people get Zinox).

Did I also see someone say prospective owners should check the vehicle manuals for safety test information AFTER making the purchase?

No, you are seeing double. That "someone" said that prospective owners should ask questions before they buy. That's how I buy my things and that is a reasonable way to go about any purchase. They can also request to see the manual prior to sale agreement.

FACE does not live in Nigeria and he doesn't need another car for when he is in Nigeria, but he would consider buying Innoson when the need arises. If I could buy Tiny computer, why would I refuse to  buy Zinox ? In any case, I am not moved by Camry and I would give it the same consideration as Kia.

Once again, you know nothing about the internal QC of Innoson and cannot make negative comment on their procedure just because they have not sent you a special copy of their safety checks, unless you have an ulterior motive for vehemently opposing the vehicles.

Demain_man:

Believe it or NOT. As I stated in my earlier post 99% of chinese goods in Africa are FAKE!! because majority cannot afford the 1% good quality due to poverty.

Africa na dumping ground of China-man.
Even a lot of websites(not owned by your naija businessmen) that sell china products sell fake products. You can google and see for yourself.

I have sited examples of good Nigeria made products. We can also manufacture good quality if given the chance and support even better than those your asus, lenovo and acer I tell you.

Please stop bad mouthing naija manufacturers. What they need is goodwill, patronage and support.

Also, I am surprised you have not heard of Slave labour and chinese workers. Google and see!

Seriously, what has China to do with the Quality of Nigerian made products? Lets assume for a second, that the buses were coming from, say Japan or even Germany. What would your argument be then? Would you also be pulling out silly reasons for why we ought to dirty Japan so you can IGNORE the call for higher quality before local content? If these buses are to carry your loved ones to school --- school buses to ferry our children back and forth from school, would you still be here offering up these pitiful reasons for why Japan(or China) ought to be looked down on, all of a sudden?

naijaking1:

oyb (m)


This is where dishonesty begins to merge with ignorance. I did not reference all Japanese cars in general, but stated that there are some Japanese models that don't pass safety tests in US, but end up in Nigeria, eg [b]have you ever seen Toyata Prado in the US? [/b]How about Toyota Hiace, even Coasters are not seen on US highways. Do you remember the Lexus 560 SUV that performed so badly in both safety, crash, and customers survey test last year that the model was basiclly removed from US market, well go to Nigeria, you'll see very big men driving them as if there is no tomorrow. Infact, I was almost run over by one emir's entourage that had 5 of those unsafe SUVs in their line up.

Don't confuse the issue, I'm not talking about Toyota Camry, or Corolla, or even Kia Sergento, but about mass transit vehicles.

No matter how you twist this issue, don't forget that the example was given because someone stated that safety checks must be applied to Innoson vehicles, and my position is that while safety remains ideal, its a goverment function, and needs to be applied to all vehicles, and not just Innoson's.

you are the one who is ignorant, since you have never heard of rebadging

a simple example - volkswagen passat (europe) is sold as volkswagen bora in the us

the lexus rx is sold in japan s the toyota harrier

and as per the prado

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_Prado

In Europe it is sold as simply the Toyota Land Cruiser LC3, LC4 or LC5 (depending on the generation) or with the number series designation (LC 70, LC 90 and LC 120). In North America it is not part of the Land Cruiser range, being instead sold as the Lexus GX 470, with nearly identical body panels and a V8 engine.

as per the hiace, it is not assembled in america , nether is the coaster -

your argument about toyota safety is slightly ridiculous. do you want to claim that japanese also 'have a reputation for making inferior goods'

oyb:


you are the one who is ignorant, since you have never heard of rebadging

a simple example - volkswagen passat (europe) is sold as volkswagen bora in the us

the lexus rx is sold in japan s the toyota harrier

and as per the prado

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Land_Cruiser_Prado

as per the hiace, it is not assembled in america , nether is the coaster -

your argument about toyota safety is slightly ridiculous. do you want to claim that japanese also 'have a reputation for making inferior goods'

Companies rebadge vehicles with modifications, these modifications could be minor or major and costly for the makers. The reason why Japanese automakers would rebadge a Lexus in Europe going to US is simple. The US safety standards are first class, troublesome for car makers, and even expensive.
If you don't know that the Japanese and infact any businessman could have a reputation for making inferior goods, if allowed to get away with it, then I question your level of education in the first place.

Inferior goods are obviously cheaper and easier for manufacturers to make, and any business, be it Japanese, Chinese, Igbo, Yoruba, or Taiwanese would cut corners if allowed to do so. European and African goverments have lax safety rules which allow these auto makers to sell "less safe" products in their countries. The US standard is top rate, and apart from federal rules, you have state rules like CA that ask for even tighter rules and standards.

Did you hear about the massive Toyota recall yesterday? Recalls are goverment mandated, and cost the motor companies plenty of money. How often do you recall vehicles in Nigeria
I post a private mail b/w the Toyota boss in North America and NHTSA:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Foreign%20Campaigns/2010/F-Campaigns/FRCL-10F092-2769.pdf

When you read the letter you'll understand my point, which is that rebadging is not just putting 2 different name plates on the same product, it involves fundamental and very important items such as fuel tank pressure meters.

You don't have NHTSA in Nigeria, vehicles are almost never recalled for any reason, but you want to stop Innoson from succeeding, because "they can't guarrantee the quality of their vehicles"

Every vehicle has a potential to develop problems. While the avarage Nigeria knows that many Chinese motors have more problems, the truth is that every vehicle; from the best Toyota brand, to Mercedes, to Volvo could develop avoidable problems. When these problems are found, the US goverment under the auspices of NHTSA forces these companies to correct these quality issues.

What is the Nigerian equivalent of NHTSA? We should push for stricker goverment enforcement of safety standards in Nigeria and not dismiss it as either an Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa issue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_toyota_recall;_ylt=AqamAzMg3xfr_oXX6QHB2UsuQE4F;_ylu=X3oDMTM5dWdlaWp1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwMjI0L3VzX3RveW90YV9yZWNhbGwEY2NvZGUDdXNuZXdzdmlld3NoYXJlBGNwb3MDNQRwb3MDNQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA3RveW90YXJlY2FsbA--

eku_bear:

Chinese make things cheaper than Nigerians can 

What if it turns out ANNAMCO and INNOSON vehicles cost 50% more than Chinese ones?

Would you yourself buy local? 

HArd to be competitive making things that require electricity.

So that is how you understands economics? That 50% may represent 50% less durable, 50% job creation in China instead of Nigeria. If they buy local the job created as a result will make up for whatever little less price you gain from cheap chinese import for over a long duration of time and the money will also remain and circulate within the Nigeria economy against a capital flight to China.
If they buy from ANNAMCO/INNOSCO they can easily get warranty deal that will allow the supplier to look after the vehicles over a long period or even take them back after a while and replace them with a new one in an agreed deal. You don't expect a Chinese engineer to come all the way from China to service a Vehicle each week, month etc?
You really had to pity genuine business people in Nigeria, whose greatest enemy is their own govt and people. Who knows, the factories are in the East and those making the decision are non Easterners and that is the way thig goes in Nigeria.

^^^
Same argument we've just made above. Save 50% on Chinese vehicles today, and loose 75% in cost over-runs within 10 years

naijaking1:

Why are you comparing a 56-seater Innoson bus with a Toyota Camry?
You don't know the difference or you just want to score a cheap point by confusing the issue

Innoson motors claim to manufacture and sell Sedans, you dolt!

texazzpete:

Innoson motors claim to manufacture and sell Sedans, you dolt!

Now, I know that you're just retarded.
Innoson doesn't claim to produce cars, but they produce mass transit buses.
Please show me where they claimed to be producing sedans
Do you have to twist issues because it makes you feel good?

Eziachi:

So that is how you understands economics? That 50% may represent 50% less durable, 50% job creation in China instead of Nigeria.

From what I've seen of goods in Nigeria versus those in China, I highly doubt the 50% less durable. Will be at least the same quality, if not better, while being substantially cheaper.

If they buy local the job created as a result will make up for whatever little less price you gain from cheap chinese import for over a long duration of time and the money will also remain and circulate within the Nigeria economy against a capital flight to China.

That is exactly the point. Without the supporting infrastructure in Nigeria, I do NOT think that the job creation makes up for it. You have a bunch of cash essentially being eaten up in a diesel generator when PHCN goes out. Or wasted on dealing with a bad road. Rather than throwing away money into that, why not first fix the infrastructure, THEN do some targeted subsidies? Otherwise you are wasting quite a bit.

Moreover. . . how does one choose which industries to prop up or not? There are 1000s which could be subsidized in Nigeria. How have we decided auto manufacturing is the one to pick? My own suggestion is to focus on industries in which we are already competitive or not too far from being competitve. That'll give you a better bang for your buck for every dollar spend on subsidies.

If they buy from ANNAMCO/INNOSCO they can easily get warranty deal that will allow the supplier to look after the vehicles over a long period or even take them back after a while and replace them with a new one in an agreed deal. You don't expect a Chinese engineer to come all the way from China to service a Vehicle each week, month etc?

Na wa o. So my civic here which is under warranty, I'm expecting an engineer from Asia to come service it when it has trouble?  Surely you see how the servicing aspects can be decoupled, assuming local techs can be trained properly.

You really had to pity genuine business people in Nigeria, whose greatest enemy is their own govt and people. Who knows, the factories are in the East and those making the decision are non Easterners and that is the way thig goes in Nigeria.

Again, this is the attitude I dislike. Blaming bigotry. There are fundamental, basic reasons to question spending $X subsidizing the car industry, and wondering if that is the best use of funds when compared to the alternatives that $X could be spent on. But instead of weighing these issues, for some it boils down to bigotry.

I expected you to think a bit more critically than that, Eziachi. On most topics you give a more nuanced response.

@Eku Bear,
That is the different between me and you, I see things as a business man that had created wealth and had come from more than five generation family that had done that for more than I can remember. But you coming out as the usual and a normal Nigerian hand on the jaw civil servant, probably who went to school on Awo's fantastic free education programmes.

My family has successfully ran an exclusive Citreon Truck franchise for more than 40 years covering West Africa/Central Africa. So from my youth till now, I know one or two things about the Auto industry.
Anyone who thinks that buying from China, something that you produce in Nnewi/Enugu in an economy that has more than 50% unemployment and graduates driving motorcyle cabs is living in a lala land.

How on earth will a country join the industrialised world with policies of this nature, when Ghana has sent their commerce minister to INNOSCO, because from them is considered local and makes more economic sense?
Nigeria is sh*t hole. I can't see this happening in a Biafra state where 70% is business minded and knows one or two things about creation of wealth.

Nigeria keeps on cutting off its nose to spite its face, in which I have to use this American euphemism.

The factories of the East are being ignored, to the point, that some of our companies have to look to other African countries like Ghana to buy our products. The sad fact is that the Nigerian gov't would rather buy abroad, then products made by Nigerian hands!  

Eziachi:

@Eku Bear,
That is the different between me and you, I see things as a business man that had created wealth and had come from more than five generation family that had done that for more than I can remember. But you coming out as the usual and a normal Nigerian hand on the jaw civil servant, probably who went to school on Awo's fantastic free education programmes.

My family has successfully ran an exclusive Citreon Truck franchise for more than 40 years covering West Africa/Central Africa. So from my youth till now, I know one or two things about the Auto industry.
Anyone who thinks that buying from China, something that you produce in Nnewi/Enugu in an economy that has more than 50% unemployment and graduates driving motorcyle cabs is living in a lala land.

How on earth will a country join the industrialised world with policies of this nature, when Ghana has sent their commerce minister to INNOSCO, because from them is considered local and makes more economic sense?
Nigeria is excreta hole. I can't see this happening in a Biafra state where 70% is business minded and knows one or two things about creation of wealth.

it has nothing to do with biafra or awo

the truth must be said, we must buy from our own companies whether east north or west

and yes you are rigth

nigerian government know nothing about economies and future businesses which is a shame on the government

but all in all, i support my igbo brothers idea here because the more the company grows the more the employment rate in nigeria

EzeUche_:

Nigeria keeps on cutting off its nose to spite its face, in which I have to use this American euphemism.

The factories of the East are being ignored, to the point, that some of our companies have to look to other African countries like Ghana to buy our products. The sad fact is that the Nigerian gov't would rather buy abroad, then products made by Nigerian hands!  

The same way Sarduana of Sokoto said it's better for them to pay 10x more to hire a foreign doctor than to hire one from the south---maybe Igbo doctor

Once again, I'll just have to repeat that with no other information to go on, it's just as likely that they never even considered those two companies (Innoson, Annamco) out of genuine ignorance of their scope and capability as it is that they deliberately snubbed them. I think the former is somewhat more likely, but it does suggest that they don't understand the potential or capabilities of Nigerians.

naijaking1:

The same way Sarduana of Sokoto said it's better for them to pay 10x more to hire a foreign doctor than to hire one from the south---maybe Igbo doctor

when was that and given me links to your claim

Eziachi:

@Eku Bear,
That is the different between me and you, I see things as a business man that had created wealth and had come from more than five generation family that had done that for more than I can remember.  But you coming out as the usual and a normal Nigerian  hand on the jaw civil servant, probably who went to school on Awo's fantastic free education programmes.

Sigh. This is the difficulty I have discussing things with you guys sometimes. You know absolutely nothing about me and my background, yet feel it is OK to make lots of assumptions.

Anyway, so I take it that you won't discuss the actual points I raised? The discussion will boil down to "Eziachi=capitalist", "Eku_Bear=slack-jawed socialist". . . despite the fact that you are the one advocating massive subsidies, not I?  

My family has successfully ran an exclusive Citreon Truck franchise for more than 40 years covering West Africa/Central Africa. So from my youth till now, I know one or two things about the Auto industry.

You might know a lot about the auto industry. But does this mean you are qualified to say that the auto industry should be the one subsidized over the various others? There is a bit of conflict of interest on your part, no?

Anyone who thinks that buying from China, something that you produce in Nnewi/Enugu in an economy that has more than 50% unemployment and graduates driving motorcyle cabs is living in a lala land.

Here is the thing. That one produces something is only one part of the story. The main thing most people are interested in is. . . how much does thing you are selling cost?
If you are saying that Nnewi/Enugu produces goods at the same price points as China (something that is highly implausible except for certain specific niche areas, for obvious reasons), then fine, certainly buy as much locally as possible. But since the reality is that Chinese products are in fact much cheaper, the story becomes more nuanced.
Like, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the prices of Nnewi/Enugu goods were competitive with those made in China, would we? Nobody would have to beg anyone to buy Nnwei if the actual product sold from there was as competitive as the one from China.

How on earth will a country join the industrialised world with policies of this nature, when Ghana has sent their commerce minister to INNOSCO, because from them is considered local and makes more economic sense?
Nigeria is excreta hole. I can't see this happening in a Biafra state where 70% is business minded and knows one or two things about creation of wealth.

*Shrug* It is what it is. Rather than focusing on improving the quality and competitiveness of your goods, you instead want a subsidy. Or to complain about Ghana, dream for Biafra, etc.

Well, you are welcome to do that, if you like. Keep complaining, the Chinese will keep taking your food from your own backyard unless you improve.