Dtruthspeaker:


1) We are Measured and Judged by Works, Preferably what God would call "Good" not what you or I or any man calls "good", but whatever God calls "Good"!

2) Then we are Further Measured and Judged by the Truest Contents of our soul ("thoughts" ) were No Lie, Falsehood or Deceit is, which is incapable of entering in. And God Sees and has Records of All our Thoughts Contained therein!

3) it is If and When He is Pleased with our Results Contained therein, then He can exercise His Option and Power of Waiving Away any Infraction Which He Finds in Us, (Which He shall and Must Find in us, For His Standard is "Absence of Sin or Wrong called Holiness) But because He is Pleased with our result so far, As A King and Judge He can therefore Exercise His Power and Prerogative of Granting the Grace of Mercy and Clemency upon a Guilty Accused!

And the Law is
1. Equity (Grace) aids the Vigilant and not the Indolent!

2. He who comes to Equity (Grace) MUST come with Clean Hands!

3. He who seeks Equity (Grace) MUST do Equity (Grace)!

4. Equity (Grace) FOLLOWS the Law!

Kobojunkie:
LOL.. I am not preaching a gospel of "good works". Instead, I am preaching to you the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, as written of in the Bible.

By the way, Grace and sin do in fact mix, that is why in the Kingdom of God which only those who believe are a part of, there is Heaven for the righteous and Hell for the unrighteous .

Unbelievers can never enter into the Kingdom of God.

Could you tell us what the "good news" of the kingdom of God is, please?

Prettygirl27:

Could you tell us what the "good news" of the kingdom of God is, please?

It is as is written of in 4 Gospels( Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ came preaching of eternal life(grace) to all those who believe in Him and of that eternity belong spent either in Heaven or in Hell, both of them a part of His Kingdom.

He also spoke of those who will refuse to obey His commandments, though they believe in Him. And since we know that only even those who believe .i.e. have eternal life(grace) are able to sin, it is safe to conclude that grace(eternal life) and sin do in fact mix
Why do you think there is a Hell in the Kingdom of God?

Those who are sinners(not unbelievers) are slated to spend their grace(eternal life) in Hell.

Your definition of grace is eternal life. If Jesus came to preach eternal life, the how will men receive this your definition of grace? What did the prophets before Jesus preach and what were the people in those times meant to inherit?

Prettygirl27:


There is no need to be melodramatic; refute Hebrews 13:9.

Just in case you were blind or deaf the last time, here's what I have to say to you once more!

"Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matthew 16:23

At the end we'd see who's for Christ and who's the Antichrist.

shadeyinka:

Are you preaching the gospel of good works?

I intended to respond to this question, but I saw you having a conversation with your partner in the Antichrist and heretic doctrine, hence I decided it would only be a waste of time.

So have a nice day.

Kobojunkie:
It is as is written of in 4 Gospels( Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).

According to you the good news means to follow the commandments; am I right?

jesusjnr1:
Just in case you were blind or deaf the last time, here's what I have to say to you once more!

"Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matthew 16:23

At the end we'd see who's for Christ and who's the Antichrist.

Someone pointed our your submission that your God is Allah. So we know where you stand- its not on Christ's side.

Prettygirl27:

Your definition of grace is eternal life. If Jesus came to preach eternal life, the how will men receive this your definition of grace? What did the prophets before Jesus preach and what were the people in those times meant to inherit?

Jesus Christ Himself told you that He is the way, the Truth(Law) and the eternal Life(grace). So when you were told that He was full of grace and Truth, you were being told that He was the eternal Life and the Law of God.

You could be more specific here by stating which prophets in particular you refer to. In general, the prophets before Him essentially told you that He is the eternal life of God and the new agreement which God promised you.

The promise of the New Covenant is eternal life to all who believe, with Heaven for those who obey and Hell for those who refuse to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Prettygirl27:

According to you the good news means to follow the commandments; am I right?

Not according to me, but according to Jesus Christ and God Himself. Read the Gospels for yourself

I didn't write the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Kobojunkie:
Not according to me, but according to Jesus Christ and God Himself. Read the Gospels for yourself

I didn't write the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.

Have you ever read Hebrews 13:10?

truespeak:


And the Law is
1. Equity (Grace) aids the Vigilant and not the Indolent!

2. He who comes to Equity (Grace) MUST come with Clean Hands!

3. He who seeks Equity (Grace) MUST do Equity (Grace)!

4. Equity (Grace) FOLLOWS the Law!

Sweet! Law the Beginning, Law the Journey, Law the Judge and Law the End

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ Himself told you that He is the way, the Truth(Law) and the eternal Life(grace). So when you were told that He was full of grace and Truth, you were being told that He was the eternal Life and the Law of God.

You could be more specific here by stating which prophets in particular you refer to. In general, the prophets before Him essentially told you that He is the eternal life of God and the new agreement which God promised you.

The promise of the New Covenant is eternal life to all who believe, with Heaven for those who obey and Hell for those who refuse to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ.

There was a man referred to as the young rich ruler, who in his estimation, followed all the Law of God; I'd like to ask you this: what was his shortcoming on his day of judgement?

Prettygirl27:


Someone pointed our your submission that your God is Allah. So we know where you stand- its not on Christ's side.

Repeat!

jesusjnr1:
Just in case you were blind or deaf the last time, here's what I have to say to you once more!

"Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." Matthew 16:23

At the end we'd see who's for Christ and who's the Antichrist.

Dtruthspeaker:


1) We are Measured and Judged by Works, Preferably what God would call "Good" not what you or I or any man calls "good", but whatever God calls "Good"!

2) Then we are Further Measured and Judged by the Truest Contents of our soul ("thoughts" ) were No Lie, Falsehood or Deceit is, which is incapable of entering in. And God Sees and has Records of All our Thoughts Contained therein!

3) it is If and When He is Pleased with our Results Contained therein, then He can exercise His Option and Power of Waiving Away any Infraction Which He Finds in Us, (Which He shall and Must Find in us, For His Standard is "Absence of Sin or Wrong called Holiness) But because He is Pleased with our result so far, As A King and Judge He can therefore Exercise His Power and Prerogative of Granting the Grace of Mercy and Clemency upon a Guilty Accused!

It is this Grant of Mercy (Grace) which saves us from condemnation BUT THIS CAN ONLY BE GRANTED IN A COURT AND NOT BEFORE YOU ARE ACCUSED AND TAKEN TO COURT.

AND THE COURT IS STILL IN FRONT OF US, As the Bible says, So we are not yet saved.

ON THAT DAY, We shall All be Accused and Taken to The Court to Stand Trial for our Offences and Sins and it is on that Day we shall know our Respective Fates, whether we shall be Granted the Grace of Mercy.

Which is why the Bible warns that "SCARCELY are the Righteous Saved" because "All have Sinned!"

And why Christ came to Show Us the Way that We Might Escape Judgement of Condemnation and The Way is Through KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING AND FEAR of God, which is what I have found "Faith" to be and it Truly Is!

This above looks like salvation by works: where you need to pass first in the area of works before salvation can then be bestowed upon you! But the bible says otherwise
Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life

Part of the reason why salvation is by grace and not by good works is so that no one can boast of his contribution in the work of his salvation.
Isn't the correct notion the reverse?:
We are saved because we have faith in the atoning work of Christ on the cross but we get rewarded based on our works.
1 Cor 3:10- 16
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. 4 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. 16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

If a person claim that he is Born Again but living in SIN, will you say the person is Born Again?
Jesus described those who are Born Again by the kind of Fruit that they produce. The reason why they produce good fruit is because their Tree is GOOD
Matt 7:16-18
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

Any TREE that produces BAD Fruit is NOT a good Tree: meaning that ANYONE who claim he is Born Again but produces works of unrighteousness is NOT Born Again.

I think that your position is that a GOOD Tree can Produce BAD Fruit!

Dtruthspeaker:

Under this notion, the preachers never directly say, "indulge in sin" but it is inferred, in that they always say and emphasize in different ways to the same point that "when you sin, Christ Covers you, as long as you are born again. We are in a dispensation of grace" they say.

(As if God was not gracious before or has never been gracious but now He is being gracious, all of which are not True, but this is just an Obiter Dicta!)

And look at the quality of souls who are excited and jump about that "false grace doctrine", are they not whores, thieves, liars etc?

And look at how angry and agitated those same lovers of this false grace doctrine get when you directly tell them do not W.hore or pursue W.hores, Lie, Steal, Kill, or do any bad thing, are they pleased and did they rejoice to receive this Doctrine of Rightness and Goodness?

No, they Do Not!

And yet are they happy to come and report that they are "Christians" and they even open threads "preaching" and also I do see them attempting to preach outside nairaland saying "I am born again"

But one hour after their enterprise, they have returned to their whoring, lying, cheating etc

And after this also, they still return to preach some more, and they think that God would accept them. Okay oh, after all I am not going to be Judge on that Day.

But I am happy to Know The Laws and to Follow Them!

Any Preacher who INDIRECTLY preaches indulgence to sinning OR INFER such in the name of GRACE is SATANIC.
Any follower who claims to be Born Again AND is NOT transformed to a NEW CREATURE is of the Devil.

Any Preaching of SUCH is NOT the Gospel of Grace. It is a devils doctrine.

The Gospel of Grace simply put is:
1. Jesus PAID the full price of our Salvation
2. We are not saved because we MERIT the salvation but by God's Mercy
3. Anyone who is SAVED becomes a NEW Creature (old self of Sin is Passed Away, he has a new nature of Righteousness)
4. Our Fruit betray whether we are truly saved or not: He who delights in sin has NEVER known Christ
5. Our good works earn us our reward in Heaven
6. Our Salvation is NOT an AFTERTHOUGHT, it was prepared by God before the foundation of the World (Rev 13:

If ANYONE associate directly or indirectly indulgence to SIN with the gospel of the Grace of Christ, such is an Agent of SATAN!

Can you please answer these questions:?
Does God know Dtruthspeaker even before He created Adam and Eve?
Did God know that Dtruthspeaker will become Born Again and Live his life to Please his saviour Jesus Christ?
Is Dtruthspeaker's name already written in the book of life or your name will be written immediately you die?
Can God mistakenly write a person's name in the book of life?
If a person loses his salvation, can such a person get it back again?

jesusjnr1:
I intended to respond to this question, but I saw you've having a conversation with your partner in the Antichrist and heretic doctrine, hence I decided it wasn't worth it.

So have a nice day.

Who could that be?
Does the person believe in "grace to sin" for Christians? I dont believe in that!

I don't have any friend or associate on Nairaland!

Prettygirl27:

There was a man referred to as the young rich ruler, who in his estimation, followed all the Law of God; I'd like to ask you this: what was his shortcoming on his day of judgement?

To understand what the rich young man did not do,you have to pay attention to the context that is the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ commands that all those who will become His followers first have to loose their lives in order to become worthy of Him. Everyone is expected to sell/loose everything they have, giving it all away where possible,in order to buy instead the treasure that is the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus Christ told us several parables explaining, this including the one about the merchant and the Pearl.

The rich young man did not want to sell everything, cause his treasures meant more to him that the treasure that is the Kingdom of God.

If you read further down the same Matthew 19, you will find that His disciples had to obey the very same, and to those who obey is given the reward that is the Kingdom of God here on earth and beyond.

Recall this is the same Jesus Christ that declared to you that where your treasure lies is where your heart is. For those like the rich young man who refuse to rid themselves of their treasures here on earth, their heart will never be for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Those who obey Jesus Christ and self every tying, including their self, reputation, etc. will gain the reward that awaits in the Kingdom of God.

shadeyinka:

Eph 2:8-9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life

Mmh, long argument coming up.

First you did not pay due attention to Verse 1 and 2 of that Ephesians 2.

"1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,

If a person is still in trespasses and sins and he walks accordance with the course of this world, can such be a partaker of the kingdom of God?

I am certain you know the True Answer to this!

shadeyinka:

If a person claim that he is Born Again but living in SIN, will you say the person is Born Again?
Jesus described those who are Born Again by the kind of Fruit that they produce. The reason why they produce good fruit is because their Tree is GOOD

Judge ye, can a Tree of Sin be good? Or Shall the Tree full of sin bear Holy fruits or Sin Fruits?

shadeyinka:

I think that your position is that a GOOD Tree can Produce BAD Fruit!

No, sir, I have never ever made such representation, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to do so, for I Stand on the Law of being a Holy (Tree) so that your Fruits will be Holy and Must be Holy for it is A Tree that bears the fruit and not the fruit, the Tree!

shadeyinka:

Any Preacher who INDIRECTLY preaches indulgence to sinning OR INFER such in the name of GRACE is SATANIC.

Agreed!

shadeyinka:

Any follower who claims to be Born Again AND is NOT transformed to a NEW CREATURE is of the Devil.

Agreed

shadeyinka:

Any Preaching of SUCH is NOT the Gospel of Grace. It is a devils doctrine.

Agreed

shadeyinka:

The Gospel of Grace simply put is:
1. Jesus PAID the full price of our Salvation
2. We are not saved because we MERIT the salvation but by God's Mercy
3. Anyone who is SAVED becomes a NEW Creature (old self of Sin is Passed Away, he has a new nature of Righteousness)
4. Our Fruit betray whether we are truly saved or not: He who delights in sin has NEVER known Christ

Agreed

shadeyinka:

5. Our good works earn us our reward in Heaven

In Law, we say, it is The Court that will decide this, not you or I

shadeyinka:

6. Our Salvation is NOT an AFTERTHOUGHT, it was prepared by God before the foundation of the World (Rev 13:

Agreed

shadeyinka:

If ANYONE associate directly or indirectly indulgence to SIN with the gospel of the Grace of Christ, such is an Agent of SATAN!

Agreed

shadeyinka:

Can you please answer these questions:?
Does God know Dtruthspeaker even before He created Adam and Eve?

Hmmh! I do not think that this question is valid for you are demanding of me to supply the Mind of my Creator, as though I was there when He decided to Create Adam and Eve, wherein I was not Truly there, so it Impossible for me to validly and Truly Answer this question.

shadeyinka:

Did God know that Dtruthspeaker will become Born Again and Live his life to Please his saviour Jesus Christ?

Ah! This one I can answer! He Knew I Ought to Change my Birth and He Knew that I will See His Hands in and On my Life and He knew that I Ought to See it, which I verily do Confirm that I did see It and He Knew that after Seeing it, then He knew that I Ought not Flee from Him but Rather Flee Towards Him for He has given me the wisdom to Know that if I want to Live and have a Healthy Good Life which I very much want and like, then I must Follow Him.

shadeyinka:

Is Dtruthspeaker's name already written in the book of life or your name will be written immediately you die?

The Bible Clearly says that our names are Written in the Book of Life BUT IT CAN BLOTTED OUT or Expunged/Struck Out as we say in Law!
Revelation 3:5

"He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life

Psalm 69:28

"May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous"

shadeyinka:

Can God mistakenly write a person's name in the book of life?

I answered this above!

shadeyinka:

If a person loses his salvation, can such a person get it back again?

Mmmh! what I have seen both in the Bible and in this world is that if After God has Approached a certain Person and the Person Fails to Follow Him or Walk with Him, As Soon As God Departs from such a one, it is Finished for that person Eg Saul, Solomon, Hezekiah etc

Dtruthspeaker:


Mmh, long argument coming up.

First you did not pay due attention to Verse 1 and 2 of that Ephesians 2.

"1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,

If a person is still in trespasses and sins and he walks accordance with the course of this world, can such be a partaker of the kingdom of God?

I am certain you know the True Answer to this!

Eph 2:1-3:
"And you has he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

The Scripture above means that it is the Power of Christ that has empowered US who used (in the past) to live in sin and lust to live a NEW life of Righteousness!
The Scripture is NOT about any backsliding Christian

Dtruthspeaker:

Judge ye, can a Tree of Sin be good? Or Shall the Tree full of sin bear Holy fruits or Sin Fruits?

A bad Tree CANNOT produce good Fruit neither can a good Tree CANNOT produce bad Fruit. This is the word of Christ. It simply means that anyone who is TRULY Born Again MUST produce good Character/Works. If you see the contrary, such is NEVER Born Again.

Dtruthspeaker:

No, sir, I have never ever made such representation, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to do so, for I Stand on the Law of being a Holy (Tree) so that your Fruits will be Holy and Must be Holy for it is A Tree that bears the fruit and not the fruit, the Tree!

Are you saying that God doesn't know the End from the beginning?

Eph 1:4:
"According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Rev 17:8:
"The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

It seems God had known my name before the foundation of the world because it is His nature to be Omniscient

Dtruthspeaker:

Agreed!
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed

Any other description of the gospel of grace is false

Dtruthspeaker:

In Law, we say, it is The Court that will decide this, not you or I

Our good works actually give us our reward in heaven

Mat 16:27:
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

Luk 6:23:
"Rejoice you in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers to the prophets."

1Cor 3:8:
"Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor."

Rev 22:12:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

Dtruthspeaker:

Agreed
Agreed

Good!
Anything different is NOT the gospel of grace!

Dtruthspeaker:

Hmmh! I do not think that this question is valid for you are demanding of me to supply the Mind of my Creator, as though I was there when He decided to Create Adam and Eve, wherein I was not Truly there, so it Impossible for me to validly and Truly Answer this question.

Are their some things God doesn't know?

God is omnipresent in both time and space!

Every true believers name has been written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.

Dtruthspeaker:

Ah! This one I can answer! He Knew I Ought to Change my Birth and He Knew that I will See His Hands in and On my Life and He knew that I Ought to See it, which I verily do Confirm that I did see It and He Knew that after Seeing it, then He knew that I Ought not Flee from Him but Rather Flee Towards Him for He has given me the wisdom to Know that if I want to Live and have a Healthy Good Life which I very much want and like, then I must Follow Him.

You have said nothing here. You have described what God expects and NOT what God knows.

Except you believe that some information is hidden from God.

Dtruthspeaker:

The Bible Clearly says that our names are Written in the Book of Life BUT IT CAN BLOTTED OUT or Expunged/Struck Out as we say in Law!
Revelation 3:5

"He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life

Psalm 69:28

"May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous"

We both know that once a person's name is deleted from the book of life it cannot be written their again. In other words, a Christian can lose his salvation just ONCE.

If we agree on this, when does a Christian loose his salvation through sin? Is it whenever he commits a sin OR at the point of death?

Dtruthspeaker:

I answered this above!

I asked:
Can God mistakenly write a person's name in the book of life?

The obvious answer is NO!
God CANNOT make a mistake!

Dtruthspeaker:

Mmmh! what I have seen both in the Bible and in this world is that if After God has Approached a certain Person and the Person Fails to Follow Him or Walk with Him, As Soon As God Departs from such a one, it is Finished for that person Eg Saul, Solomon, Hezekiah etc

Heb 6:4-6:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Any such Christian permanently and irrevocably forfeit his salvation.

shadeyinka:

The Scripture is NOT about any backsliding Christian

Oh, that's your view on the matter "backsliding Christian" I do not see "backsliding Christians" I see people who do not Know nor Appreciate the Great Gravity and Impact of The Gift of God through Christ.

They think it a small or little weighted matter and thus, I was not addressing this matter from that perspective which of course as I have stated above "They Do not Appreciate The Great Gravity and Weight of The Gift of God nor do they fully appreciate the great weight of Judgement of Pain and Suffering which awaits them if they Do Not Diigently Take Hold of the Gift of God, which is my own perspective on this matter.

shadeyinka:

Are you saying that God doesn't know the End from the beginning?

When asked this question I have always answered that there is A Difference between Knowing Everything from beginning to End (or End to beginning whichever you prefer) and Can Know Everything.

And God Exercises these 2 Options at His Will.

But from Scriptures, He often adopts the "He Can Know" Option" Genesis 2:19, Genesis 6:5, Exodus 16:4.and many other examples in the Bible!

So, As A Creator, He surely can know Everything but as A Father, the Pleasure is in being Pleasantly Surprised and Giving Blessings or the Pain in being greatly disappointed and giving Curses!

shadeyinka:

Our good works actually give us our reward in heaven

Mat 16:27:
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

1Cor 3:8:
"Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward ACCORDING TO HIS OWN LABOR."

Rev 22:12:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

Note, you emphasized "good works" but the Bible said "Works", which is All kinds of Works including good, bad, ugly, beautiful, wicked, evil etc according to the passages you Stated above.

Not just "good works" as you said and I said earlier "it is The Court that will decide these things and not you nor I!

shadeyinka:

We both know that once a person's name is deleted from the book of life it cannot be written their again.

I stopped at the "Blotting of a persons name from the Book of Life, where the Scripture Stopped and I do not take up on myself nor will I be taking up such enterprise in presuming to know what happens after a person's name has been so blotted out from the book of Life.

Nor do I concern myself with these things. I am happy to concentrate on ensuring that my name is not so Blotted Out!

shadeyinka:

If we agree on this, when does a Christian loose his salvation through sin? Is it whenever he commits a sin OR at the point of death?

Which is why I said, it is for the Court to Decide for I am Not Judge of the Sinner!

shadeyinka:

Any such Christian permanently and irrevocably forfeit his salvation.

As i stated before, it is for The Court to decide these things, we do not have jurisdiction to pass judgement on these things, God did not appointed us Judge to decide over these things!

Dtruthspeaker:


Oh, that's your view on the matter "backsliding Christian" I do not see "backsliding Christians" I see people who do not Know nor Appreciate the Great Gravity and Impact of The Gift of God through Christ.

You referred me to Eph 2:1-2 and I explained exactly what it means.

The Scripture above means that it is the Power of Christ that has empowered US who used (in the past) to live in sin and lust to live a NEW life of Righteousness!

It is NOT even about whether or not a Christian appreciate the Grace of God in Salvation.

Dtruthspeaker:

They think it a small or little weighted matter and thus, I was not addressing this matter from that perspective which of course as I have stated above "They Do not Appreciate The Great Gravity and Weight of The Gift of God nor do they fully appreciate the great weight of Judgement of Pain and Suffering which awaits them if they Do Not Diigently Take Hold of the Gift of God, which is my own perspective on this matter.

Any Christian that doesn't appreciate the COSTLY price paid for the grace of his salvation is NOT of Christ. Any Christian who trivialises his gift of salvation is most certainly NOT saved.

Dtruthspeaker:

When asked this question I have always answered that there is A Difference between Knowing Everything from beginning to End (or End to beginning whichever you prefer) and Can Know Everything.

And God Exercises these 2 Options at His Will.

But from Scriptures, He often adopts the "He Can Know" Option" Genesis 2:19, Genesis 6:5, Exodus 16:4.and many other examples in the Bible!

So, As A Creator, He surely can know Everything but as A Father, the Pleasure is in being Pleasantly Surprised and Giving Blessings or the Pain in being greatly disappointed and giving Curses!

Rom 8:29-30:
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Eph 1:11:
"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will:"

The power of God to FOREKNOW is exceedingly beyond comprehension. God is the God of Time and Space.

Dtruthspeaker:

Rev 22:12:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."[/i]

Note, you emphasized "good works" but the Bible said "Works", which is All kinds of Works including good, bad, ugly, beautiful, wicked, evil etc according to the passages you Stated above.

Not just "good works" as you said and I said earlier "it is The Court that will decide these things and not you nor I!

I didn't emphasize only good works: I emphasized WORKS! Some works will even burn up as useless and not all works have the same value.

Dtruthspeaker:

I stopped at the "Blotting of a persons name from the Book of Life, where the Scripture Stopped and I do not take up on myself nor will I be taking up such enterprise in presuming to know what happens after a person's name has been so blotted out from the book of Life.

Nor do I concern myself with these things. I am happy to concentrate on ensuring that my name is not so Blotted Out!

Which is why I said, it is for the Court to Decide for I am Not Judge of the Sinner!

As i stated before, it is for The Court to decide these things, we do not have jurisdiction to pass judgement on these things, God did not appointed us Judge to decide over these things!

The Scripture is very clear on these issues
1. If a Christian's name is blotted out of the book of life, it is impossible to get it back again.
Heb 6:4-6:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

The power of Adoption of God is massively great. As a child of your parent, you don't go about living your life in fear of them disowning you for your imperfections:Why?

Because as a true son of your parents, you honour them so much that it makes you live your life to please them.

Same as a child of God. He is not in fear of being cast out of God's presence because he honours God so much to effortlessly live his life to please God

Some Christians Don't know that they are Gods children through Christ and not slaves hence, they are always living in fear of rejection by God if they are not perfectly perfect.

shadeyinka:

You referred me to Eph 2:1-2 and I explained exactly what it means.

The Scripture above means that it is the Power of Christ that has empowered US who used (in the past) to live in sin and lust to live a NEW life of Righteousness!

It is NOT even about whether or not a Christian appreciate the Grace of God in Salvation.

Meanwhile, we are talking about the sinner and his proclivity to sin which is also contained in the same Ephesians 2:1-2 and I highlighted it but you chose to ignore the highlight and talk about the Power of Christ which was not the issue of dispute. Is this not what I presented up above?

"First you did not pay due attention to Verse 1 and 2 of that Ephesians 2.

"1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, "

The key words "trespasses" and "sins" and "walking" thereto are the central keys of all my statements and I the Power of Christ was not in dispute at all.

shadeyinka:

I didn't emphasize only good works: I emphasized WORKS!.

Your words expressly and directly stated "good works"

shadeyinka:

Our good works actually give us our reward in heaven

Mat 16:27:

Now you see, up here you said "good works" precisely, "Our good works"

shadeyinka:

The Scripture is very clear on these issues
1. If a Christian's name is blotted out of the book of life, it is impossible to get it back again.
[i]Heb 6:4-6:

As I said earlier, I am not going past the fact that my Name can be Blotted Out and I do not want that at all, so i really do not care if it can be blotted and rewritten. For me, I do not want it blotted out at all.

shadeyinka:

As a child of your parent, you don't go about living your life in fear of them disowning you for your imperfections:

Now you fall here, for the Fear Must Come when you go Against their Will and Commands!

shadeyinka:

Because as a true son of your parents, you honour them so much that it makes you live your life to please them.

And this is where the Judgement is which resides with the Parents, not the child and Surely it is the Parent who Truly knows whether the Child has honoured them!

shadeyinka:

Same as a child of God. He is not in fear of being cast out of God's presence because he honours God so much to effortlessly live his life to please God

As I said, it is God Who Shall Judge if such children in Truth did Honour Him and not the child or children!

shadeyinka:

[i][b]Some Christians Don't know that they are Gods children through Christ and not slaves hence, they are always living in fear of rejection by God if they are not perfectly perfect.[/b]

Some Christians Don't know that they are God's children through Christ? Then they are not Christians or have not completed their walk on becoming Christians.

Dtruthspeaker:


Meanwhile, we are talking about the sinner and his proclivity to sin which is also contained in the same Ephesians 2:1-2 and I highlighted it but you chose to ignore the highlight and talk about the Power of Christ which was not the issue of dispute. Is this not what I presented up above?

"First you did not pay due attention to Verse 1 and 2 of that Ephesians 2.

"1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, "

The key words "trespasses" and "sins" and "walking" thereto are the central keys of all my statements and I the Power of Christ was not in dispute at all.

You forgot to look at the TENSE which is PAST TENSE. The nature of sin was our nature before Christ paid the price for our sins. It is the power of Christ that changed us from being a sinner into a righteous personality.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Read

Dtruthspeaker:

Your words expressly and directly stated "good works"
Now you see, up here you said "good works" precisely, "Our good works"

I think you got it with my explanation. Works will be rewarded (good or bad)

Dtruthspeaker:

As I said earlier, I am not going past the fact that my Name can be Blotted Out and I do not want that at all, so i really do not care if it can be blotted and rewritten. For me, I do not want it blotted out at all.

I just stated what the scriptures said: if a name is blotted out, such name cannot be re-entered in the book.

Dtruthspeaker:

Now you fall here, for the Fear Must Come when you go Against their Will and Commands!

There is difference between Honour and Fear of your Parent.
When a Christian Honour God, he obeys Him through Love (Healthy fear isn't based on Judgement but on Honour)
Satan and Demons too fear God, it doesn't make him righteous (Unhealthy fear based on what God can do to them in Judgement)

Dtruthspeaker:

And this is where the Judgement is which resides with the Parents, not the child and Surely it is the Parent who Truly knows whether the Child has honoured them!

If you truly honour your parents, they will know.
If a Christian truly Honors God, God will know.

Dtruthspeaker:

As I said, it is God Who Shall Judge if such children in Truth did Honour Him and not the child or children!

Some children live in fear of their parent disowning them because they do not know the power of love just like some Christian live their lives in fear of Gods rejection because they know not the power of God's Love.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It seems some children of God are waiting for the day of judgement for them to know if they are truly saved or not.

Dtruthspeaker:

Some Christians Don't know that they are God's children through Christ? Then they are not Christians or have not completed their walk on becoming Christians.

Unfortunately, many Christians live like they are slaves in their Father's house.
They are like the obedient elder brother to the prodigal son of the rich man: even though was a son, was living his life as a slave in his own Father's house. Luke 15:10-


Finally,
If the true Gospel of Grace is NOT an indulgence to Sinning BUT a life of Righteousness lived through honour and appreciation of the costly Gift of God in Christ for our salvation, why should we STOP Preaching it?

shadeyinka:

You forgot to look at the TENSE which is PAST TENSE. The nature of sin was our nature before Christ paid the price for our sins. It is the power of Christ that changed us from being a sinner into a righteous personality.

Which is why I merely advanced a probe and no more upon any who sins yet claims to be "Born Again"

And as you said, which is my stand too!

shadeyinka:

A bad Tree CANNOT produce good Fruit neither can a good Tree CANNOT produce bad Fruit. This is the word of Christ. It simply means that anyone who is TRULY Born Again MUST produce good Character/Works. If you see the contrary, such is NEVER born again

So this is settled!

shadeyinka:

Some children live in fear of their parent disowning them because they do not know the power of love just like some Christian live their lives in fear of Gods rejection because they know not the power of God's Love.

The human parents are known to be Wicked so it is reasonable and understand for their little children to be afraid.

But God is the Best Parent any child will want to have and I am a witness to that for I had wicked parents but God took me up and I have been smiling ever since.

shadeyinka:

Finally,
If the true Gospel of Grace is NOT an indulgence to Sinning BUT a life of Righteousness lived through honour and appreciation of the costly Gift of God in Christ for our salvation, why should we STOP Preaching it?

Because of the receivers and hearers who are great sinners hearing and interpreting the wrong things by your teaching and thereafter going out to teach others, these wrong things!

They need to hear about Righteousness or Rightness first, for it is the Foundation upon which Grace is laid as my learned colleague Truespeak had earlier said "Equity (Grace) Follows The Law"!

And Righteousnes/Rightness is The Law!

Dtruthspeaker:


Which is why I merely advanced a probe and no more upon any who sins yet claims to be "Born Again"

And as you said, which is my stand too
So this is settled!

Okay!

Dtruthspeaker:

The human parents are known to be Wicked so it is reasonable and understand for their little children to be afraid.

But God is the Best Parent any child will want to have and I am a witness to that for I had wicked parents but God took me up and I have been smiling ever since.

Meaning that a True Child of God should live as one who Honour God not out of FEAR but of Deep Love and Appreciation for the Gift of Sonship purchased with a very costly Price. Such a person will live his life to please God by his actions.

Dtruthspeaker:

Because of the receivers and hearers who are great sinners hearing and interpreting the wrong things by your teaching and thereafter going out to teach others, these wrong things!

They need to hear about Righteousness or Rightness first, for it is the Foundation upon which Grace is laid as my learned colleague Truespeak had earlier said "Equity (Grace) Follows The Law"!

And Righteousnes/Rightness is The Law!

I think it is you who hear or misinterpret what the gospel of grace is. Any gospel that gives indulgence to sinning is NOT the gospel of grace.

I said:
Finally,
If the true Gospel of Grace is NOT an indulgence to Sinning BUT a life of Righteousness lived through honour and appreciation of the costly Gift of God in Christ for our salvation, why should we STOP Preaching it?
How is it different from the preaching of "Holiness without which no man can see the Lord"?

THis include the Life of Righteousness
It includes Honouring God with our Lives
It includes Appreciating God for the Gift of Salvation.

This above is the summary of the gospel of GRACE!
Anyone who preaches contrary to this above is preaching the Gospel of Licentiousness and not the gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus!

The Gospel of Licentiousness is NOT the same as the Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus
The opposite of the gospel of grace is the gospel of works which I'm sure you don't subscribe to!

shadeyinka:

I think it is you who hear or misinterpret what the gospel of grace is.

This is not right. I clearly showed you how I arrived at my conclusion but you have put it aside and ignored it while you rather chose to attack me personally. Alright!

But Jesus Christ is Lord nah

Dtruthspeaker:


This is not right. I clearly showed you how I arrived at my conclusion but you have put it aside and ignored it while you rather chose to attack me personally. Alright!

I did NOT attack you! You arrived at your conclusion by mixing up two distinct and different ideologies.
Do you not have the impression that the gospel of grace gives indulgence to sinning despite all my explanations?


I only said that you are wrong with the labeling of the gospel of licentious living as the gospel of grace.
These two mean two different things but you insist that they are the same in spite of my clear explanation.

It's just like if I insist that you practice the gospel of works and insist that you claim that the blood of Jesus isn't sufficient for salvation but good works is sufficient.