liquid7:

$650m will probably solve the problem of electricity in a state,it will build  a few state of the art hospitals,it will create loads of schools ,the list of much more urgent problems is endless.

Nigeria does NOT  still have a single hospital that can met the ALS or ATLS standard(i know this as a fact because i and others could not get approval to teach this essential life saving courses in Nigeria as there was not even one hospital in the whole nigeria we could find that met the criteria even private hospitals.the course we eventually provided was without approval and had to be renamed and even then 75% was theaory due to lack of equipment to demonstrate.).

Yet people here are actually supporting the need for another international airport rather then renovate the existing one.

Next time someone you know has a heart attack or a bad car crash and dies in a hospital i am sure you will look at this white elephant airport and think if its worth it.

Even if you are a multi millionare and don't care about anything then you should care if you substain major trauma on a bad nigerian road because news flash flying you out for treatment is not an option ,what happens in first 2 hours is what matters if you live or die.No plane will take you in such an unstable state abroad for treatment if you even make it to the airport!

Same goes for heart attacks and quite a few other critical things.

Nigerians get your priority right .Supporting a $650m new airport is totally out of priority even if its needed which i am not even sure it is.

It's a pervading culture in this country, embarking on projects just for the glory and not to impact on the life of the common man.

Ironically, I'm all for the building of a new airport in Lagos. Lagos population and importance, unlike Asaba, is comparable to places that have 2 or 3 major airports within their area (D.C.- Reagan/Dulles/BWI- NY-LaGuadia/Newark Int'l/JFK).

After the fire that destroyed MMI domestic, the rebuilding of it by the state has made it better than the MMI inter'l, run chiefly by the feds.

The problem here is the same old Naija problem- cheating. In soccer, academics, business, and politics. Others call it corruption. How can you allocate nearly $700 million on an airport? Even the Abuja stadium was over $300 million? Why? It's still not greater than Premeir League Stadiums or those in South Africa.

Are we competeing to have the greatest airport of all time, or a world-class modern airport that will guarantee saftey and is equiped with modern facilities?

So, Fashola, you've been doing it big, but let's have a public debate about Lagosian's money and their children's money when finalizing this great idea.

edoyad:

It's a pervading culture in this country, embarking on projects just for the glory and not to impact on the life of the common man.

My brother, I so agree with you, though something in me lauds the project

edoyad:

It's a pervading culture in this country, embarking on projects just for the glory and not to impact on the life of the common man.

Who den go hire to build the place? No be common man and lagosians?

Who den go employ when den build an finish? None the common man?

Who go dey carry paychecks go home every month to pay ren, to buy food, to pay school fees and buy school uniform for their kids? No be common man?

Who go dey among the hudreds of thousands of people den wey go dey work, collect paychecks and improved quality of life from the places wey den go build the airport because of like LFT and eko atlantic? No be the common man?

Who go dey pay taxes to the state every month and who go dey benefit via infrastructures wey the same tax money go help build? No be the common man?

Who go own this evelasting money making machine investment? No be the common man and his many grand children and great grand children wey den never born?


Seriously, many of you need to move away from your shallow and misguided ways of thinking. That axis is not only going to be the main business hub of sub Saharan Africa , it's going to be Lagos state's and Nigeria's bread and butter, our major money making multi nationals are currently located in VI and they can not grow and expand because of lack of space meaning they can not expand their operations and hire more, the place also is a residential zone. These companies are alll moving to eko Atlantic. On top of that, we have the largest free trade zone in Africa in the same area and cargo and ceos from these business zones are going to be flying in and out 24/7. The airport itself is set to be the main air traffic hub in west Africa with many airlines making stops and connecting to other parts of Africa.
Do you have any idea how much the state is going to be raking in offender plan flying in and out of that airport?

This is a solid investment in terms of the states financial future, an everlasting investment that even our unborn kids are going to ge reapping many benefits from.

Its good there are folks on NL that can help people here broaden their outlook and do away with short sighted thinking.

^^^ You mean suggesting that money be spent on services that directly impact the people now, and not in the future, is short-sighted thinking?

I remember we had similar debates on projects of this type, about 4 years ago. It is 4 years later, the same issues exist for the poor/average individuals , care to guess why?

future planning is providing constant electricity to enhance buisness,proper schools,good roads of quick transport and safety,good hospitals for good quality of life ,railroads for better haulage etc,water supply, those are priorities of most government .

if we have those then you can talk about more international airports and to my knowledge not one single state in nigeria has achieved all this yet.

liquid7:

$650m will probably solve the problem of electricity in a state,it will build a few state of the art hospitals,it will create loads of schools ,the list of much more urgent problems is endless.
Nigeria does NOT still have a single hospital that can met the ALS or ATLS standard(i know this as a fact because i and others could not get approval to teach this essential life saving courses in Nigeria as there was not even one hospital in the whole nigeria we could find that met the criteria even private hospitals.the course we eventually provided was without approval and had to be renamed and even then 75% was theaory due to lack of equipment to demonstrate.).

Yet people here are actually supporting the need for another international airport rather then renovate the existing one.

Next time someone you know has a heart attack or a bad car crash and dies in a hospital i am sure you will look at this white elephant airport and think if its worth it.

Even if you are a multi millionare and don't care about anything then you should care if you substain major trauma on a bad nigerian road because news flash flying you out for treatment is not an option ,what happens in first 2 hours is what matters if you live or die.No plane will take you in such an unstable state abroad for treatment if you even make it to the airport!

Same goes for heart attacks and quite a few other critical things.

Nigerians get your priority right .Supporting a $650m new airport is totally out of priority even if its needed which i am not even sure it is.

Unfortunately for you, the state is spending a lot on the same thing you listed. The just activated a PPP power generating project and another ins nearing completion.

They are building roads, bridges, metro rail system and the best/one and only 10 lane freeway with metro rail and BRT access in Africa. They are doing way way more than the federal government is doing combined.

On top of that, the state's primary obligation is not limited to all the things you listed, they are also charged to invest in and grow the state's economy to stimulate employment, brodedn the tate's tax base to generate more and more money to do all the things you listed.

The population is not declining and the tax base can not remain the same, you have to invest in your economic future and the airport is a money making brick and motar to move the state foward, not just any building.

Saying building infrastrutures like airport, creating employment for Lagosians, looking out for the state's financial future and expanding the state's tax base misplaced priority sounds kind of foolish and misguided. I think many of you think governance starts and ends with roads and nothing but roads as the state is not already spending a lot of it's money on the same roads, bridges and highways,

^-- Well said. Lekki has a good chance of being the air hub of the entire West Africa, Central Africa subregion, if they pull this off properly.

MMIA isn't going to cut it.

liquid7:

future planning is providing constant electricity to enhance buisness,proper schools,good roads of quick transport and safety,good hospitals for good quality of life ,railroads for better haulage etc,water supply, those are priorities of most government .

if we have those then you can talk about more international airports and to my knowledge not one single state in nigeria has achieved all this yet.

Lagos state has the best trash collection system in Nigeria

Lagos state is spending more on roads and transportation infrastructure from roads, to bridges, metro rail and freeway system than many countries in Africa including Nigeria.

Lagos state commisioned almost 15 waterworks and an independent power generation plant to power the state's major water works.

Creating employment and allowing people to collect paychecks to feed their family is still the best way to ensure good quality of life on top the state having more money from taxes paid by the same employed people and businesses making use of the state's infrastructures like the aiport.

Btw,

You mean future planning is all about spending and spending on everything you listed and not creat the base for that money in terms of employment and tax generation?

Kobojunkie:

^^^ You mean suggesting that money be spent on services that directly impact the people now, and not in the future, is short-sighted thinking?

I remember we had similar debates on projects of this type, about 4 years ago. It is 4 years later, the same issues exist for the poor/average individuals , care to guess why?

It kind of break your heart listening to many so many leaders of tomorrow with zero vision and can't do self-defeatist mentality. No wonder Lagos state is far ahead of many of these clueless and visionless states. Just look at the absurd statement that the airport is not going to directly impact the common man as if the airport is going to buld itself and only ghosts are going to be employed and paying taxes to the state and in return the state is going to use thye tax money generated to take care of ghosts abi aliens, Some people are just too silly and and shallow, they can not walk and shew gum at the same time.

^-- I'm just glad that Lagos State doesn't listen to what most of these bad belle people are saying. Probably wouldn't be the 5th largest economy in sub-Saharan Africa if you listen to what every tom, d1ck and harry told you about how to run things.

Eko Ile:



It kind of break your heart listening to many so many leaders of tomorrow with zero vision and can't do self-defeatist mentality. No wonder Lagos state is far ahead of many of these clueless and visionless states. Just look at the absurd statement that the airport is not going to directly impact the common man as if the airport is going to buld itself and only ghosts are going to be employed and paying taxes to the state and in return the state is going to use thye tax money generated to take care of ghosts abi aliens, Some people are just too silly and and shallow, they can not walk and shew gum at the same time.

You dont seem to get the point.
The point is that first things first, get the people educated, healthy, and able to do the job. Then Airport and other luxuries can come after.

If the life expectancy is where it is now, 47 and our schools arent being taken good care of, where are we going to get the 21st century workers making enough money to actually use the airport and pay taxes. Well, except if you plan to continue to import 'expats' from abroad to do things that we should be able to do.

zstranger:

You dont seem to get the point.
The point is that first things first, get the people educated, healthy, and able to do the job. Then Airport and other luxuries can come after.

If the life expectancy is where it is now, 47 and our schools arent being taken good care of, where are  we going to get the 21st century workers making enough money to actually use the airport and pay taxes.  Well, except if you plan to continue to import 'expats' from abroad  to do things that we should be able to do.

The $700 million will not solve education, healthcare, and provide employment for all of time. Population of Lagos is probably around 20 million. Is 35 bucks per person really going to buy you much education or healthcare?

However, investing $700 million as part of a PPP to build probably a mult-billion dollar airport that will be a major hub in Africa and service a major FTZ will create a longer-lasting impact.

We'll attract lots of investment, create jobs, and from the tax revenue from the investment and jobs, provide education and healthcare.

ekt_bear:

The $700 million will not solve education, healthcare, and provide employment for all of time. Population of Lagos is probably around 20 million. Is 35 bucks per person really going to buy you much education or healthcare?

However, investing $700 million as part of a PPP to build probably a m[b]ult-billion dollar airport that will be a major hub in Africa and service a major FTZ will create a longer-lasting impact[/b].

We'll attract lots of investment, create jobs, and from the tax revenue from the investment and jobs, provide education and healthcare.

You are over estimating the viability of this project. They said the same thing about Tinapa, "located by the Calabar River, and contiguous with the Calabar Free Trade Zone, " But Tinapa, instead of making money and attracting people, is a ghost town as we speak.

An airport that would be a mojor hub in Africa? Like the rest of Africa do not have plans of their own. If Lagos thinks an Airport would bring in money, dont you think Accra would want to do same, Benin, Abidjan etc. I just dont believe in all these grand plans that are bound to fail, looking at examples from other places.

For starters, where is the 5 million passengers coming from? From space? Even as it is right now, MMA is not the busiest airport in West-Africa, what makes you think that this so called Lekki Airport would magically, from no where, become a major hub in Africa?

zstranger:

You are over estimating the viability of this project. They said the same thing about Tinapa,  "located by the Calabar River, and contiguous with the Calabar Free Trade Zone, "  But Tinapa, instead of making money and attracting people, is a ghost town as we speak.

Tinapa was very poorly planned. It is the middle of nowhere, essentially. How does one GET to Tinapa? How does one transport goods to Tinapa? Up a tiny river that needs to be dredged. How do the major population centers in Nigeria get to Tinapa?

Do you not see how Tinapa and Lekki are different? We don't need to dredge a river before one can bring goods in and out of our FTZ. And we are located right in the most populous part of Nigeria.

An airport that would be a mojor hub in Africa? Like the rest of Africa do not have plans of their own. If Lagos thinks an Airport would bring in money, dont you think Accra would want to do same, Benin, Abidjan etc. I just dont believe in all these grand plans that are bound to fail, looking at examples from other places.

Everyone can choose to build their own airport. But the airlines will choose where to route their flights based on what makes the most business sense for them.

Wyoming can decide today it wants to become  major hub, and take the crown from Denver International Airport and Salt Lake City (the two giants in that area, if I'm not mistaken.)

But how does it convince the airlines to shift traffic?

For starters, where is the 5 million passengers coming from? From space? Even as it is right now, MMA is not the busiest airport in West-Africa, what makes you think that this so called Lekki Airport would magically, from no where, become a major hub in Africa?

I've not looked at their feasibility studies and projections. But that they are only investing $700 million and seem to have found investors willing to put up the cash for the rest is a telling sign of the feasibility of this venture.

ekt_bear:

Tinapa was very poorly planned. It is the middle of nowhere, essentially. How does one GET to Tinapa? How does one transport goods to Tinapa? Up a tiny river that needs to be dredged. How do the major population centers in Nigeria get to Tinapa?

Do you not see how Tinapa and Lekki are different? We don't need to dredge a river before one can bring goods in and out of our FTZ. And we are located right in the most populous part of Nigeria.
Everyone can choose to build their own airport. But the airlines will choose where to route their flights based on what makes the most business sense for them.

Wyoming can decide today it wants to become  major hub, and take the crown from Denver International Airport and Salt Lake City (the two giants in that area, if I'm not mistaken.)

But how does it convince the airlines to shift traffic?

I've not looked at their feasibility studies and projections. But that they are only investing $700 million and seem to have found investors willing to put up the cash for the rest is a telling sign of the feasibility of this venture.

I just read a lil about it on wiki, and it sounds like a good idea actually.

I was a bit naive with the "where is the 5 million people coming from question"

Anyway, i am just a lil skeptical.

I'd rather we spend money to produce more/better quality students, a healthier populace and encourage our indigenous entrepreneurs before doing that. But it seems like a good idea.

I don't even know how Tinapa is powered. Diesel generator? Something hideous/expensive like that?

From what I've read from all the major new Lagos projects (Eko Atlantic, the Lagos water project, Lekki FTZ), they'll be rolling out their own electricity (using the natural gas pipeline.)

Let us not compare Lekki FTZ to Tinapa, abeg.

@zstranger:

But where do we get the money from for these public goods you want? Where is a state like Lagos that gets pretty small FG allocations relative to its population going to get the money for these public goods (healthcare, education) that you talk about?

The FG isn't going to give us the money. So we need to invite investors who want to do business in Lagos, and then tax the hell out of them!

That is where you get the cash from for public goods.

^^^

http://www.africanloft.com/the-tinapa-tragedy/

lets also not forget that this is a Public Private Partnership project. So all the money is not coming from Lagos state.

And I also think its location at Lekki is line with the Eko Atlantic city/Lagos free trade zone objectives.

ekt_bear:

@zstranger:

But where do we get the money from for these public goods you want? Where is a state like Lagos that gets pretty small FG allocations relative to its population going to get the money for these public goods (healthcare, education) that you talk about?

The FG isn't going to give us the money. So we need to invite investors who want to do business in Lagos, and then tax the hell out of them!

That is where you get the cash from for public goods.

Well how much is the State government investing? And how much are they going to make per year for how long?

Do we have estimates? If the main aim is to create jobs for the locals, I am afraid that 10 yrs from now, we will have to start importing workers from other countries. So where does that leave us in the long run?

zstranger:

You dont seem to get the point.
The point is that first things first, get the people educated, healthy, and able to do the job. Then Airport and other luxuries can come after.

If the life expectancy is where it is now, 47 and our schools arent being taken good care of, where are we going to get the 21st century workers making enough money to actually use the airport and pay taxes. Well, except if you plan to continue to import 'expats' from abroad to do things that we should be able to do.

No, you don't get the poin. It's realy foolish to let go growth, tax based and employement related development and focus on just education, no country on the face of the earth is doing that. What you are preaching is nothing but recipe for disaster. Where are you going to get the money to educate your people from? From the sky or taxes from economic activities and investements?

Who is going to hire your educted folks after refusing to grow your economy and creat jobs? Is the same education going to hire them, pay them and will they be able to pay taxes to the government and enable the government not to only educate, but to pay civil servants, clean roads, pay utilities and vendors, pay for roads, bridges, hospitals, clinic, pay agencies the the one that rescued coppers from up north? Just where do you think the money is going to come from?

You don't think we have enough unemployed graduates pushing carts, doing okada and driving taxi? When are you people going to stop thinking like cave men?

Aiport is not anykind of luxury, it's a credible infrastructure, money making and employment machine that our kids are ging to be benefiting from hundreds of years from now.

We begged people to show up and invest in our state and they did just that to build what's set to be the largest industrial zone and sea port in Africa with cargo flying in and out with finished goods and raw materials 24/7, we have what's going to be the largest refinery in going up in Nigeria in nthe same area and on top of that,  we have Eko atlantic with hundreds of thousands of residents and workers and the largest/most technologocally advanced business district in Africa, all in the same area. Do you know what kind of air traffic the area is going to be generating?

Do you have any idea the kind of money the state is going to be making from airports tenants, airlines and their terminals, landing and take off fees? With all we have going in the area with so many international folks and activities, do you think it's prudent not to make money? Do you think it's ok to subject our growth and economy to the obsolent and poorly managed airstrip they  call MMA ? Are we going to be spending hours  shipping consumer and industrial goods across town to and from MMA in endless traffic?

No offence, but you sound very foolish.

zstranger:

^^^

http://www.africanloft.com/the-tinapa-tragedy/

That article alludes to a customs issue. You can google around and read up on it, but I think in a nutshell, finished goods were being imported and sold w/o paying taxes/import duties.

Perhaps when Tinapa (or I guess the FTZ there) was conceived, they had the idea that they'd be able to get a special waiver. If you think about it though, it'd be pretty unfair if Tinapa gets to be the only place in Nigeria where you can import things from say China and sell 'em without any customs duties.

Lekki FTZ, the goal isn't to just import a bunch of stuff from China and sell it there. The goal is to import raw materials, and manufacture completed goods ourselves. From there, those goods can be either (A) exported outside of Nigeria (at no charge from customs) or (B) exported into naija (at a reduced fee.)

For me Ajejunle, would have been an ideal location. Everyfing you can fink of favours the area or what do you fink?

ekt_bear:

@zstranger:

But where do we get the money from for these public goods you want? Where is a state like Lagos that gets pretty small FG allocations relative to its population going to get the money for these public goods (healthcare, education) that you talk about?

The FG isn't going to give us the money. So we need to invite investors who want to do business in Lagos, and then tax the hell out of them!

That is where you get the cash from for public goods.

Because Nigeria is the only place to invest and  do business abi?. They will just leave like other companies who moved to Ghana from Nigeria lately.

ekt_bear:


Wyoming can decide today it wants to become  major hub, and take the crown from Denver International Airport and Salt Lake City (the two giants in that area, if I'm not mistaken.)

But how does it convince the airlines to shift traffic?

You just mentioned the two major competitors in that area. Which major competitor is that close to Lagos?

edoyad:

It's a pervading culture in this country, embarking on projects just for the glory and not to impact on the life of the common man.

While I believe that this project is very risky as it may likely fail, I do not disagree with the concept and let us stop whining about the plights of the common man. What do you want Fashola to do for the jobless millions walking aimlessly around Lagos?. After all, USA is the richest nation on the planet and has embarked on capital intensive wars till date yet they have very poor citizens who cannot even afford to feed 3x daily.

The reason you want to remove it from lekki is because of the sea. if the plane fail. they are all dead.

ROFLMAOPIMP

BTW, what ever happened to Enugu Int'l airport? Even the one in Port Harcourt with the so-called renovations?

aloy-emeka:

You just mentioned the two major competitors in that area. Which major competitor is that close to Lagos?

My real point is that if someone wants to build an airport and FTZ in the West Africa, Central Africa region to compete with that of Lekki, they'll have a difficult time (assuming we get there first, that is.)

Lekki and Lagos State have too many advantages relative to other locations.

aloy-emeka:

Because Nigeria is the only place to invest and  do business abi?. They will just leave like other companies who moved to Ghana from Nigeria lately.

Nigeria is a much larger market than Ghana. Heck, even Lagos State is nearly as populated as all of Ghana. So why would anyone choose Ghana over Lagos, all other things equal?