nurain150:


You just said it now. Your country thrives on foreign investment. So if they leave that's good bye.

They should just place a quota

We're not against legal migration and providing asylum coz we can vet the people. It's the illegal immigration that's the problem. Even rich nations panic over massive illegal migration - just look at the saga between Belarus and the EU right now. And yet people expect a developing country like SA with the world's highest levels of inequality and one of the highest youth unemployment rates to have it's borders wide open to the entire continent. Already there are millions just from Zimbabwe alone. Recipe for disaster - as u can already see it manifesting through xenophobic attitudes and violence.

IronGalaxy:
They like acting as if whitey never plundered the whole continent.

Or that apartheid was not corruption on a massive scale and also a crime against humanity. All of a sudden SA whites are gods and the best thing to ever happen to SA. If not for apartheid the non-white groups in SA wouldn't be facing the enormous socio-economic issues that they are at the moment or even black South Africans having xenophobic attitudes.

IronGalaxy:
Bro, I studied history in school, I read history for leisure, Apartheid doccies on our TV are choc-a-bloc plus we have family members and older people to tell us about Apartheid. I've never heard a Tanzanian or a Zambian saying they've saved us from Apartheid and yet played a greater role. What is it that Nigeria did that warrants them a gold star on the forehead?

Clearly, you didn't research well. Many of your scholars had scholarship grants in our Universities. Numerous. But do your research more. Like I said, don't read the distorted ones. You can read narrations from other nationals to strengthen your knowledge.

IronGalaxy:
Lol, when you specify "black South Africans" do you know the stance of other South Africans with regards to foreigners because I can tell you right now there's a general consensus among South Africans regarding this issue, people are tired man! we can't be Africa's Santa Claus, South African people must come first.

And to correct you, no one is saying we don't want black Africans here because that's a lie, we generally would welcome skilled Africans from all over the continent, your doctors, engineers etc, we're just tired of the riffrafffs that come into the country with nothing to offer, or to loiter around doing nothing andend up committing crimes just being a burden on our system

the other stuff about "apartheid" is pure trash!

You should ask yourself how black indigenous South Africans make up 80% of the population yet your black population are worse off than any other racial group. Black income levels are less than 30% of the White population in a country where white people are invaders. How are the White South Africans doing far better than the Blacks. Answer that question first then we can take it from there

fergie001:

It's not just any essay...It is worth reading.

Protectionism? This is infact one of the things NOI was employed to fight at the WTO. For Nigeria here, it's anything goes.

I know Ghana has begin to enforce theirs recently.....

We just have to factor a way out somehow.

Wow, I was actually expecting a fight

Geez, you've worked at/with the WTO before - that's so cool

That's an excellent term actually - protectionism. It's what SA citizens have been pleading for from the govt because of our apartheid history especially with regard to inferior education and international isolation. You can't then take a fragile country like that and expose it to millions of migrants from countries that got their independence in the 60s and with superior literacy and skills levels (even at blue collar level).

That's why I said poor South Africans need a leg up and not to be exposed to all this competition from the rest of the developing world. That's why there's so much tension coz they never got to enjoy the fruits of freedom and democracy before Zimbabwe disintegrated and it's highly skilled citizens flooded a South Africa already suffering from high unemployment levels.

Of course at higher levels you can hire people with critical skills from other countries and encourage skilled South Africans to be more competitive, as well as having a good asylum system - we're definitely not against that. But SA has been a free-for-all and it's really not fair to its citizens.

What becomes of the millions of Zimbabweans and others who crossed over into SA and failed to find jobs is also another story for another day leading to the xenophobic tensions... Criminality.

Winnerly:


You lack critical reasoning

same way your mama toto lack alignment

JAWBONE:


You should ask yourself how black indigenous South Africans make up 80% of the population yet your black population are worse off than any other racial group. Black income levels are less than 30% of the White population in a country where white people are invaders. How are the White South Africans doing far better than the Blacks. Answer that question first then we can take it from there

Worse off than other group? who told you that? . South African blacks are the biggest middle class in SA , you find our people from all economic levels,, from the poorest poor to the wealthiest,So I don't understand your assertions.If you understand what Apartheid was you'lll automatically understand why white people would be better off than any other group. The concept of "old money"comes into play and a centuries of a headstart.

IronGalaxy:
Worse off than other group? who told you that? . South African blacks are the biggest middle class in SA , you find our people from all economic levels,, from the poorest poor to the wealthiest,So I don't understand your assertions.If you understand what Apartheid was you'lll automatically understand why white people would be better off than any other group. The concept of "old money"comes into play and a centuries of a headstart.

Poorest poor you will find black South Africans in large numbers. Wealthiest, you would find only a few black South Africans. Apart from Patrice Motsepe, there's hardly any black South African billionaire widely known.

I have a lot of South Africans as Facebook friends and I see a lot of stuff about South Africa. Most of your people, the blacks live in shacks and shanties with corrugated iron sheets.
If things are so good for black South Africans, why then is Julius Malema always talking about nationalisation of banks, mines etc. Fighting for economic freedom, reclamation of lands

JAWBONE:


You should ask yourself how black indigenous South Africans make up 80% of the population yet your black population are worse off than any other racial group. Black income levels are less than 30% of the White population in a country where white people are invaders. How are the White South Africans doing far better than the Blacks. Answer that question first then we can take it from there

Ever heard of 50 years of apartheid and 300 years of colonisation in SA? It's your fault you don't read and are asking us dumb questions - not ours. Things are improving. Read up on how black university students have quadrupled, the black middle class has overtaken that of whites 15 years ago, 30% of the economy is now in black hands according to the Black Business Council - that's about the size of Kenya's GDP.

All this info is readily available on something called the internet.

PS. People who have been in SA for over 350 years are no longer considered invaders - they are citizens. And SA is not gonna take stupid violent reforms like Zimbabwe and wreck the economy, which is something you'd all love to see in Nigeria.

JAWBONE:


Poorest poor you will find black South Africans in large numbers. Wealthiest, you would find only a few black South Africans. Apart from Patrice Motsepe, there's hardly any black South African billionaire widely known.

I have a lot of South Africans as Facebook friends and I see a lot of stuff about South Africa. Most of your people, the blacks live in shacks and shanties with corrugated iron sheets.
If things are so good for black South Africans, why then is Julius Malema always talking about nationalisation of banks, mines etc. Fighting for economic freedom, reclamation of lands

Lol, it seems there's a narrative that you want to believe and you are dead set in believing it. Let's say 80% percent of black south africans live in shacks that's most of the country right? then most of the country would be made up of shacks isn't it? But as things stand South Africa is one of earth's most beautiful countries and if we mostly live in shacks why then do we also make the biggest middle class? Yes, there a lot of people people live in shacks (called informal settlements) and a lot don't live in those. Most Black SAs don't live in shacks actually. I don't, I doubt TMK does, I doubt Jace does too,then are there are rural areas like Venda (google houses in rural Venda and you'll be shocked) then are Townships like Your Sowetos, Davetons,Mitchell's Plain, Mlazi etc Then there are suburbs in Soweto itself, there are mixed suburbs around the country where you find south Africans of all races for example, then there are also black suburbs and so forth, then some people live in the cities etc You find Black south Africans everywhere come on! We are the majority and is kinda weird you think we are cramped only shacks. There are indian and coloured informal settlements mind you.

There are other black billionaires man come on! Our president himself is a billionaire, then you have the likes of Robert Gumede, Leonard Sowazi, Phuthuma Nhleko, Sipho Nkosi, Mike Teke, Vincent Mntambo, etc., etc Motsepe just happens to be the most popular one because of visibility, plus we really don't hype billionaires this side like you do over there

Julius Malema talks about those things because of an agenda, why would he want to nationalize banks? Some of the things he says are straight out legit like land redistribution but other than that, dude is a quack! You can't gauge how a country is like based on Facebook to be honest and it's kinda brave when you say "Most of you live here and there when you haven't set foot here.

TMKsouth:


Ever heard of 50 years of apartheid and 300 years of colonisation in SA? It's your fault you don't read and are asking us dumb questions - not ours. Things are improving. Read up on how black university students have quadrupled, the black middle class has overtaken that of whites 15 years ago, 30% of the economy is now in black hands according to the Black Business Council - that's about the size of Kenya's GDP.

All this info is readily available on something called the internet.

PS. People who have been in SA for over 350 years are no longer considered invaders - they are citizens. And SA is not gonna take stupid violent reforms like Zimbabwe and wreck the economy, which is something you'd all love to see in Nigeria.

Lol,dude says most of us live in shacks Most? and this is based on facebook mind you

TMKsouth:


Ever heard of 50 years of apartheid and 300 years of colonisation in SA? It's your fault you don't read and are asking us dumb questions - not ours. Things are improving. Read up on how black university students have quadrupled, the black middle class has overtaken that of whites 15 years ago, 30% of the economy is now in black hands according to the Black Business Council - that's about the size of Kenya's GDP.

All this info is readily available on something called the internet.

PS. People who have been in SA for over 350 years are no longer considered invaders - they are citizens. And SA is not gonna take stupid violent reforms like Zimbabwe and wreck the economy, which is something you'd all love to see in Nigeria.

I think the day Nigerians see a white person begging in the streets of Germiston, they'll be shocked or the white informal settlements that they think only blacks live in. And those are the signs of a balancing society

TMKsouth:


We're not against legal migration and providing asylum coz we can vet the people. It's the illegal immigration that's the problem. Even rich nations panic over massive illegal migration - just look at the saga between Belarus and the EU right now. And yet people expect a developing country like SA with the world's highest levels of inequality and one of the highest youth unemployment rates to have it's borders wide open to the entire continent. Already there are millions just from Zimbabwe alone. Recipe for disaster - as u can already see it manifesting through xenophobic attitudes and violence.

Exactly!

TMKsouth:


Ever heard of 50 years of apartheid and 300 years of colonisation in SA? It's your fault you don't read and are asking us dumb questions - not ours. Things are improving. Read up on how black university students have quadrupled, the black middle class has overtaken that of whites 15 years ago, 30% of the economy is now in black hands according to the Black Business Council - that's about the size of Kenya's GDP.

All this info is readily available on something called the internet.

PS. People who have been in SA for over 350 years are no longer considered invaders - they are citizens. And SA is not gonna take stupid violent reforms like Zimbabwe and wreck the economy, which is something you'd all love to see in Nigeria.

I know you people are in love with your oppressors so much. That's your business. If you want South Africans to be exclusively for South Africans, then come clean and deport every other African there. Simple.

We are tired hearing about these attacks and blame for your misfortune. Every problem in South Africa is caused by African immigrants.
It's as if South Africans themselves are so good that all their problems come from outside.
Everyday blame Zimbabwe, blame Malawi, blame Nigeria, blame Ghana. It's never South Africans

IronGalaxy:
I as a South African has nothing to be grateful to a Nigerian for, a Nigerian never died for our course. I'm sorry if it hurts.

As a Nigerian I agree we did not do anything for you guys so deserve no special treatment

I urge my Nigerians to stop using this argument.

IronGalaxy:
sorry I always find it hilarious when you start acting like Deepak Chopra but go on...

You haven't addressed any point I made because you can't debunk my logic.

SImpleton

IronGalaxy:
Lol, it seems there's a narrative that you want to believe and you are dead set in believing it. Let's say 80% percent of black south africans live in shacks that's most of the country right? then most of the country would be made up of shacks isn't it? But as things stand South Africa is one of earth's most beautiful countries and if we mostly live in shacks why then do we also make the biggest middle class? Yes, there a lot of people people live in shacks (called informal settlements) and a lot don't live in those. Most Black SAs don't live in shacks actually. I don't, I doubt TMK does, I doubt Jace does too,then are there are rural areas like Venda (google houses in rural Venda and you'll be shocked) then are Townships like Your Sowetos, Davetons,Mitchell's Plain, Mlazi etc Then there are suburbs in Soweto itself, there are mixed suburbs around the country where you find south Africans of all races for example, then there are also black suburbs and so forth, then some people live in the cities etc You find Black south Africans everywhere come on! We are the majority and is kinda weird you think we are cramped only shacks. There are indian and coloured informal settlements mind you.

There are other black billionaires man come on! Our president himself is a billionaire, then you have the likes of Robert Gumede, Leonard Sowazi, Phuthuma Nhleko, Sipho Nkosi, Mike Teke, Vincent Mntambo, etc., etc Motsepe just happens to be the most popular one because of visibility, plus we really don't hype billionaires this side like you do over there

Julius Malema talks about those things because of an agenda, why would he want to nationalize banks? Some of the things he says are straight out legit like land redistribution but other than that, dude is a quack! You can't gauge how a country is like based on Facebook to be honest and it's kinda brave when you say "Most of you live here and there when you haven't set foot here.

Until you people realise how bad the damage of apartheid was up to this present day, you will continue to blame everyone but yourselves for your problems.

Nigeria has problems and those problems are 100% the fault of Nigerians not Ghanaians or Beninoise or Cameroonians.

We tried sending the Ghanaians back sometime ago, it still didn't solve our problems. You should probably learn from that.

TMKsouth:


Foreigners that dodge paying taxes like in their home countries but leech off free State services? Those are the people who will collapse the SA economy?

How much on aggregate do you think all foreign owned businesses would potentially contribute to the your treasury. I am curious?

Foreigners indirectly pay taxes on everything else barr business taxes so your point is mute.

IronGalaxy:
Speak for Nigeria boss, we don't all subscribe to this brain-dead inferiority mentality.

Lack of exposure is a disease on its own. The greedy politicians deceived the masses and told them that colonial masters' dog earns more than humans that the whites are looting the treasury and therefore the white should go. Today the same black black man is looting the treasury and sending it to the white man.


But people like you are okay with it because you find it difficult to accept your people have failed. We live in a country where ten hours of power is celebrated.

The agbero on Lagos road under the sun believes he is living large because he sees money to eat. So I know where you are coming from . You haven't seen life at the other side or you are feeding from oppressing the poor and everything is fine with you.


Get exposure and get sense.

TMKsouth:
Wow, I was actually expecting a fight

Geez, you've worked at/with the WTO before - that's so cool

Nope....I meant Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (NOI)

That's an excellent term actually - protectionism. It's what SA citizens have been pleading for from the govt because of our apartheid history especially with regard to inferior education and international isolation. You can't then take a fragile country like that and expose it to millions of migrants from countries that got their independence in the 60s and with superior literacy and skills levels (even at blue collar level).

That's why I said poor South Africans need a leg up and not to be exposed to all this competition from the rest of the developing world. That's why there's so much tension coz they never got to enjoy the fruits of freedom and democracy before Zimbabwe disintegrated and it's highly skilled citizens flooded a South Africa already suffering from high unemployment levels.

What you are saying isn't alien.
Economic factors is the principal reason for migration. But let me tell you something, when you look through these reasons, it creates wounds that hardly ever get healed.

The Ghanaians did this in 1969, Nigeria retaliated in 1983. Even the Brexit is a sophisticated method of "protectionism" if we want to be factual.

It didn't start with S/Africa, it wouldn't end with S/Africa. It is a struggle for survival. In Nigeria today, I will say we have one of the weakest borders in the world and have resigned to competition rather than deporting foreign nationals. Even the shutting of our borders years ago was met with heavy disapproval from the people.

SA cannot alienate itself from the world but must come to terms with providing competition rather than alienation. Engaging more in the informal sector with Govt support is the only way out. If all foreign nationals leave South Africa today, can you beat your chest and say S/Africa will record more success? You and I know the answer to that, so there must be some measure of control.

The SAns have to start showing they can do better. All the things you complain about in SA exist in Nigeria. You have these people get into your country and pay peanuts. As a young school leaver many years ago, fresh from the University, I was doing a job:- 11 hours a day, 7 days a week...no offdays, no observing of holidays, you work on Christmas Days, yet got less than 2300 SA rands (in Nigeria money).

It is an adapt or die world here, I had to move on when I felt I was done.

Of course at higher levels you can hire people with critical skills from other countries and encourage skilled South Africans to be more competitive, as well as having a good asylum system - we're definitely not against that. But SA has been a free-for-all and it's really not fair to its citizens.

I agree with this completely.
In Nigeria here, the competition amongst tribes is too hot to even let a foreigner come in between.

What becomes of the millions of Zimbabweans and others who crossed over into SA and failed to find jobs is also another story for another day leading to the xenophobic tensions... Criminality.

Crime is everywhere. Ndlovu isn't Zimbabwean, Congolese or Nigerian.

The price for liberty is eternal vigilance. There has to be a way out.

A criminal who is Nigerian caught in your Country is as much a criminal in mine, treat them as one.

JAWBONE:


Until you people realise how bad the damage of apartheid was up to this present day, you will continue to blame everyone but yourselves for your problems.

Nigeria has problems and those problems are 100% the fault of Nigerians not Ghanaians or Beninoise or Cameroonians.

We tried sending the Ghanaians back sometime ago, it still didn't solve our problems. You should probably learn from that.

You are hijacking our buildings, pimping our sisters, importing drugs etc and want tyet want to avoid blame? Stop using Apartheid as a crutch, your people were caught again Dehli. India importing drugs and you want Indians to blame who? Jesus Christ? You are a problematic nationality the sooner you are accept the better.

Comparing SA and Nigeria is pointless, you aren't experiencing what we're experiencing

IronGalaxy:
Lol, it seems there's a narrative that you want to believe and you are dead set in believing it. Let's say 80% percent of black south africans live in shacks that's most of the country right? then most of the country would be made up of shacks isn't it? But as things stand South Africa is one of earth's most beautiful countries and if we mostly live in shacks why then do we also make the biggest middle class? Yes,

The point is not about the landscape of the country therefore the beauty of the country is irrelevant to the argument.

You do make up the biggest middle class in comparative terms and not absolute terms.

JAWBONE:


Until you people realise how bad the damage of apartheid was up to this present day, you will continue to blame everyone but yourselves for your problems.

Nigeria has problems and those problems are 100% the fault of Nigerians not Ghanaians or Beninoise or Cameroonians.

We tried sending the Ghanaians back sometime ago, it still didn't solve our problems. You should probably learn from that.

Thank you sir for seeing what is actually there and not what these nicumpoops keep propagandizing.

JAWBONE:


I know you people are in love with your oppressors so much. That's your business. If you want South Africans to be exclusively for South Africans, then come clean and deport every other African there. Simple.

We are tired hearing about these attacks and blame for your misfortune. Every problem in South Africa is caused by African immigrants.
It's as if South Africans themselves are so good that all their problems come from outside.
Everyday blame Zimbabwe, blame Malawi, blame Nigeria, blame Ghana. It's never South Africans

Yes sir!

man after my own mind!

morpheus24:


The point is not about the landscape of the country therefore the beauty of the country is irrelevant to the argument.

You do make up the biggest middle class in comparative terms and not absolute terms.

Hey Depaak Chopra

IronGalaxy:
You are hijacking our buildings, pimping our sisters, importing drugs etc and want tyet want to avoid blame? Stop using Apartheid as a crutch, your people were caught again Dehli. India importing drugs and you want Indians to blame who? Jesus Christ? You are a problematic nationality the sooner you are accept the better.

Comparing SA and Nigeria is pointless, you aren't experiencing what we're experiencing

Hijacking buildings in another man's country with what army

Pimping a grown ass woman by what means Muti?

Importing drugs from where? If you didn't know the biggest importers of contrabands into SA are the Chinese and Pakistanis but then again you wouldn't care.

IronGalaxy:
Hey Depaak Chopra

Attack the points not the personality.

morpheus24:


Hijacking buildings in another man's country with what army

Pimping a grown ass woman by what means Muti?

Importing drugs from where? If you didn't know the biggest importers of contrabands into SA are the Chinese and Pakistanis but then again you wouldn't care.

You should know, aren't you always lurking in the shadows observing all things South African?

morpheus24:


Attack the points not the personality.

It was a greeting not an attack Relax Mr Try too much

IronGalaxy:
It was a greeting not an attack Relax Mr Try too much

listen Mfethu the only point I will agree with is that a mass of illegal immigrants constitute a nuisance to a society

However the word "nuisance" and the interpretation of it is where your so called political parties are playing politics with.

The basic definition is some one causing an annoying feeling or an incovienience to another person because of their presence.

That does not constitute criminal activity.

IronGalaxy:
You should know, aren't you always lurking in the shadows observing all things South African?

Yes I am a Vigilant Watcher. I am here to check you Saffers so you don't get out of line with some of these newbies on Nairaland who don't know you for what you all are here on nairaland.

IronGalaxy:
You are hijacking our buildings, pimping our sisters, importing drugs etc and want tyet want to avoid blame? Stop using Apartheid as a crutch, your people were caught again Dehli. India importing drugs and you want Indians to blame who? Jesus Christ? You are a problematic nationality the sooner you are accept the better.

Comparing SA and Nigeria is pointless, you aren't experiencing what we're experiencing

Wow. So every hijacker, love-vendor, drug dealer in SA is a Nigerian.
And you think there are no South Africans involved in this vices that if every Nigerian leaves SA today, South Africa will be drug, love-vendor, hijack free?

The Nigerians who run legitimate businesses there and add value to your economy are suddenly lumped among the drug dealers. South Africa has a serious unemployment, crime and drug problem. It has nothing to do with Nigerians. How many Nigerians are in South Africa to start with.
I'm not sure they are up to 500k yet they are the cause of the entire South African problem. Do you know how far South Africa is from Nigeria?

It is the mark of laziness to keep blaming others for your own problems