AntiChristian:


That is the meaning!

FxMasterz:

Bro, you Muslims don't know what sin is. TenQ, in order to make his points clear, he first described sin as it is before God. He used the bowl contamination analogy.
The human concept of sin is quiet different from God's. What we have in the Quran is the human concept. To God, sin is beyond what humans are making of it.

FxMasterz:


Let's start analysing things from your own angie.

At the bolded, if the sin issue is that simple, why didn't God simply forgive the whole world and usher everyone to paradise instead of asking humans to believe in a religion and follow a certain lifestyle?
Do you know that your Quran says everyone would first enter hell before Allah would save those whom he would save? Why should that be if the issue of sin is such a simple issue?

FxMasterz:



The contamination analogy should be recalled at the bolded. The previous questions I asked also applies.
The bolded means 'We're just doing what God says we should do, there's no guarantee.'
But God is a definite God. He does His things on purpose with a definite and clear end in sight. There's no ambiguity.
Please kindly answer the questiobs TenQ asked about the 2 contaminated bowls. Your answer to those questions would let you know what sin is and how exceedingly sinful, sin could be.

FxMasterz:


The human concept of sin as found in the Quran is grossly at variant with God's concept.
Why would God cast anyone into eternal fire if sin is such a simple thing?

Special Note
It's one thing to be forgiven of sins. It's another thing to be cleansed from the contamination that sin leaves on the soul.

MightySparrow:


What is the meaning of Antichristian?

AntiChristian:


Someone who is against the Christian view of God having partners (Trinity), God becoming man, dying, etc.

MightySparrow:


Good.
Anti + Christian
Against + Christians = opposing anything Christianity


Al + Lah
ال +لله
The + God.


Which Lah?

The Arabic Allah has three daughters!

AntiChristian:
When you guys quote from the Qur'an and hadith you don't quote out of context! But when we quote from your Bible, then it is out of context! You are simply a hypocrite!

Paul is the starter of Christianity! That is the person you allegedly follow! Our Salvation is to obey Allah and his messenger Muhammad till we die!


It's not that we see it as attacks. It is falsehood! You lie to promote Christianity! You can never preach Christianity to a Muslim without telling lies. Even your Christianity you don't understand not to talk of Islam.

And Paul said:
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?…

Na una love be that!

TenQ:

FIRST: The Word Gospel means "Good News" and it is NOT a book: it is a Message.


What is the Message?
1. That the Messiah has come!
The Messiah is One who is to rule the Whole World and Create a Eutopian Civilization whose domain is without End. In modern day terms we will call it Paradise .
2. The Messiah is the Gift of God to Humanity: that whosoever BELIEVED in Him will not perish but earn eternal life with God in Paradise. Through the Messiah all who know that they are SICK in their Soul/Spirit through the Virus of Sin can get healed and thus be qualified for Paradise: for it is impossible for a sinner to inherit the kingdom of God.

Why are ALL Humans in Trouble?
1. Because ALL humans are sinners by nature AND no one contaminated with sin can be united with God after this life in His paradise. We ALL inherited our sin nature from Adam and Eve.
2. God is Absolute, Just and Infinitely above ALL, He has set a boundary of perfection around Himself. By God's law, the minutest sin must be Judged as VIOLATIONS of God's rule is taken extremely seriously by God.
3. It is impossible for ANY violator of God's rule to UNDO the consequence of his sin.
4. All Violators of God's rule face the "Second Death"! Death is NOT a form of Annihilation BUT a DISCONNECTION. The second death is an Eternal REJECTION and DISCONNECTION of such a guilty person from God to a place described as "the Lake of Fire"!

Why is it the Good News?
1. Because God so much loved Humanity, He presented a Perfect SACRIFICE as a GIFT to pay the PENALTY of our sins. Then, God can execute Justice on us and yet Free us from the consequence of our Sin.
2. In the Old Testament, God instituted the Ordinance of SACRIFICE to atone for the sin of the children of Israel: The sacrificial animal thus become a SCAPEGOAT for them. The children of Israel commited iniquity BUT the sacrificial animal is paying with its life for their sin. This have to be repeated often and at least once a year. This was an allegory to the atonement that will be done by the Messiah.
3. In the New Testament, the Messiah came as Human but did NOT inherit the SIN nature of the descendants of Adam and Eve so that He is the perfect Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. The sacrifice of the Messiah is INFINITE, therefore He can take Upon Himself the Infinite nature of God's Judgement for people.
4. Anyone who BELIEVES and ACCEPTS Gods Solution for His Sin as a Free Gift of God becomes BORN AGAIN. Meaning that He becomes a "NEW PERSON" as far as God is concerned: "A CHILD of God" and Disconnected fromnthe Curse of Adam and Eve!

Jesus explained this process of becoming a Child of God in John 3:14-15
Jn 3:14-15:
"And just as Moses lifted-up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up in order that everyone putting-faith in Him may have eternal life."

Let me Explain briefly:
In Numbers 21:4-9
#1. The children of Israel blasphemed against God and Moses
#2. God punished them by sending exceptionally poisonous snakes into their camp
#3. After thousands have died as the snake venom defied all medical solutions, the children of God knew that this was God's Judgement against them.
#4. They asked Moses to beg the LORD for them to Forgive them and Remove the snakes. Moses went up to the LORD to plead for the Children of Israel
#5. God forgives them but He would NOT remove the poisonous snakes. Instead, God says to Moses:
i. Make a snake image and hang it on a Pole in the center of the camp of Israel.
ii. Any Israelite that is bitten by a snake should drag himself to the place where the brass snake image was hung and look.
iii. Anyone who believed in God's solution for the snake venom and look at the brass snake will live and not does as a result of the venom.

Salvation through Christ Explained:
Anyone who BELIEVED in the SOLUTION of God ( to look at the brass snake) lived. Everyone who REJECTS the Solution of God for the venom DIED.

Jesus said: Just as Moses hung a snake image in the wilderness, so the same way He would be hung. Anyone who Believed in God's solution will come under the covenant of God's Peace.
JESUS Described those who Believed in the SOLUTION of God for their Sin by coming to the Messiah hung on the Tree as BORN AGAIN.

John 3:14-15:
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

And then:
John 3:16-18:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Unfortunately, Jesus said that:
This FREE GIFT of God will be REJECTED by many and you my dear Muslims, you are of them.
John 3:19-20:
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

Your Questions Please!
This time around, I am not asking you the questions


Cc:
All my Friends on Nairaland:
LegalWolf Vanessa7 AntiChristian Empiree, Rash4ductluv, BabaHeekmat, Haekymbahd, motayoayinde, drlateef, Thatfairguy1, MrCodeSolo , Hisbah21, thatsleepboy1 , Lordmoh , OBALOLA55, x123xlolls , Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq, Ibsaq , Herkeym001 , Sulasa07 , hakeemhakeem , abduljabbar4 ,olaalekan ,Friend22 , uthlaw , Exc2000 , AbuTwins ,Akhirastriver ,Akinbahm , Sino , KayB , youngdroly , jaggabban , ukeleh , Realismailakabir , Bami8064 Greatgr , Gaskiyamagana Compton11 , Alfarouq , MrCodeSolo saintHot

FxMasterz:


There have been many Christian-made Islamic threads on this forum Including the one we're currently on, which of them are out of context? Oftentimes, rather than expose the alleged non contextual nature of a thread, you rather ignore the thread or come to post deception scriptures quotes to counter the truth. I've never seen anyone alleging that a text from the Quran or Hadith was quoted out of context. As for you, your modus operandi is to deviate from the questions asked by the OP to start talking about the wars or Cannan or how Jeremiah said he was deceived, or how God was praying to Himself in Jesus or some other fallacious representations of scripture for which you're well known. So, tell me how you came about Christians quoting your books out of context.

Do we indeed promote lies when we say exactly what your books say and juxtapose it with current reality? Tell me the Christian equivalent of Taqquiya which is a well permitted lying format in your religion. Christians would preach the gospel with power only when preached with truth. The gospel loses its power when emeded with lies, and that's why, we do all we can to avoid lying in order for the gospel to have effect. On the other hand, Taqquiya is the Permissable lie that makes Islam Islam. This isn't so with Christiendom.
We're instructed not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. That message is for us, we understand it fully. What you think it says is not what was implied. We have the commandments severally in scripture to love all men. And it's out of that love that we go out of our way to share the gospel to those who care to listen.

LegalWolf:
Lol 😂
You’ve never constructed any logical argument since I know you. The more you try to explain, the bigger your folly. I don’t envy you at all.
You fail to appreciate common sense. The issue of “need” I raise is not from the perspective of the son but the incapacitated judge. And a fine rebuttal to your logic has been made in my previous post.
I think I need to make it clear here that I rubbished your “exchange” analogy and even threw a question at you. As expected, you’re mute on that point.

LegalWolf:

Did I not respond to this question in my previous post? Repeating questions can’t save you lol!

LegalWolf:

You’ve thrown up many questions and I’ll strive to answer them. I can drink from either of the two cups, to the extent they are very clean. When cleaning our nephew’s poo, at times my hand gets stained. Should I cease to eat with that hand because it is stained with poo AFTER washing my hands?

For your comprehension, you just argued exactly what I have been struggling to say. If you say it is impossible to pay the fine of our sin without god first executing his justice (which is done by blood of Jesus - whatsoever that means), it invariably means your God cannot forgive sins without blood.

To avoid any doubt, blood is a sine qua non for the forgiveness/atonement of sins. Not your subjective state of mind. Not your willingness to repent. Just blood of animals or his co-god. Lol 😂 I really love yhwh! Hallelu….what?

Now you posed a question to me on what I do for atonement. All I do is to intend to ask for forgiveness and manifest it. Shikena! Sins are individual and not communal and the blood of one god or animal is not needed for me to be forgiven.

Islam is no match to the nonsense of a religion whose god requires blood in order forgive. That’ll lead to me to further questions later on.

LegalWolf:

Again, your argument is puerile. I’ve written so much for the morning and I would not want to spend time doing a line-by-line rebuttal. I’ll just answer your question. I’m not suggesting that God can change the laws of Kun fayakun. I am ASSERTING that he can if he wills. Simple.
I think I need to make this point quite clear. Hypothetically, God is unconstrained. He does not need our intention and work to forgive us. Again, hypothetically, we can seek forgiveness with intent and good work and he can refuse it. We may not seek forgiveness and he can forgive us.
This is just theory. But we are certain as Muslims that he is going to forgive us because he has given us his words that he will if we come in true repentance. Not with blood of goats or ashes of heifers. Neither does he need the blood of one Yehoshua to atone for our sins.

You’ve been moving with low quality stray people like Advocatejare and your rapist defending lawyer friend. That has affected your thinking process. Think TenQ !

Donkmore:


Actually, I didn't read this thread. But the Bible according to George Bernard Shaw is the most dangerous book on Earth. He said keep it in the lock and keys.

No honest person will still be a Christian considering the amount of clear contradictions in the Bible.
The book does not have a claim from God that it's his own
Even the word Bible is no where in the Bible

God is not the author of confusion
So there is no way the Bible with so much controversy can be from him.

Clear evidences

TenQ:
I am not surprised with your tactics of avoidance of issues and dodging of Questions as long as you see that it will damage your case irredeemably.

Based on your preceding Question, who is the one who need to PAY for His CRIME?

Please Respond:

Who NEEDED to pay the Fine to be FREE from spending the Prison term.
a. Is it The JUDGE (who is also the Father)?
OR
b. The MAN (The judge's Son who drunkenly destroyed the streetlight)?

The Answer explains CLEARLY who NEED the Sacrifice!
(It is not a simple case of purchase of items)

TenQ:

Why are you running away from the implication of the Question
Is it conceivable that God will command a man to "BE HOLY" and the man decides to be UNHOLY?
Do you think Humans have violated God's instruction to Him to BE HOLY?

I asked you a question whose answer and comprehension would have clarified this simple issue for you:
If God says "BE" and it isn't, can He still remain the Almighty God?

Answering the Question will help you understand the magnitude of SIN to God!

TenQ:


Look at my full (first) analogy of the excrement. Let me modify it a little to fax sense into you. The question you asked me (which you repeated twic) was:



I asked you a simple Question to Illustrate it. if you had answered it, you would have understood the concept.
Which of this two cups will you drink from
a. First Cup:
Contains one teaspoon of human TenQ's excrement (but already washed with soap and water)
OR
b. Second Cup:
Contains thirty teaspoon of human TenQ's excrement (but already washed with soap and water)


The above is to help you see that CLEANING a vessel DOES NOT remove the fact that it is UNFIT for Use Again. My Washing it with Soap and Water and even Bleach changes NOTHING!

TenQ:


Check your post highlighted in RED by me.. Secondly, even though I have explained several times that the Blood of Sacrifice is a Representation of the Evidence that LIFE has been taken, you totally ignored it to propose your own doctrine: but no problem, this is exactly how Islam works. The sacrifice becomes the SCAPEGOAT for the SINNER so that JUSTICE is PERFORMED by God without VIOLATING His Sovereignity.

Didn't you read me on the TWO requirement of Salvation? Here it is again
1. Believing and Accepting the SOLUTION of God for You (the Sacrifice made by God on your behalf)
This is what is called Accepting Jesus as SAVIOUR -FAITH
2. Repentance from SIN and LIVING according to the Rules of the Messiah
This is what is called Accepting Jesus as LORD - REPENTANCE

This is why you hear Christians ask the Question:
Have you accepted Jesus as your LORD and SAVIOUR?

So, my dear. Salvations is not just because you believe it is because you have FAITH (FAITH is Believe Put in ACTION)'
This was why Jesus said:
Matt 7:19 - 22
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


BELIEVE in Gods SOLUTION and REPENT from works of Unrighteousness: this is the meaning of FAITH

I hope I've cleared your misconception.

TenQ:


Actually, Islam is closer to what you've said:
What happens when you touch or kiss the black stone or the Yemeni corners at the Kaaba?
Is your sins NOT forgiven according to Mohammed?

TenQ:


This is probably the greatest sacrilege you've committed since we've been chatting;
YOU SAID:
I’m not suggesting that God can change the laws of Kun fayakun. I am ASSERTING that he can if he wills. Simple.

The implication is that you are saying that God can STOP being God if He wills:
A Question: The moment God stops being God, do you think He can reclaim His power thereafter? With which power is He going to reclaim His Almightiness?

LegalWolf, the Almightiness of God does not permit Him to be less than being the Almighty.

You still have not understood the INFINITE gap between God and His Creations. It seems you dont still understand the Power of "BE" of God.

That was why I asked you the Question:
Are you suggesting that God can CHANGE the LAWS of His Power of "BE" "kun faya kun" because Humans VIOLATED it?

1. God commands Humans "BE HOLY" and man Chose to Act Opposite by Living "UNHOLY": and you think the greatest offence in the Universe has not been committed?
2. What you are saying is that there is NO Consequence for the "BE" or "kun faya kun" to be VIOLATED by ANYONE!?


Please Dont Dodge Answering this Question:
Since the Beginning of TIME, Has the Command "BE" or "kun faya kun" of God EVER Been VIOLATED?

AntiChristian:

In five minutes i will introduce Islam to you as the only religion that guarantees paradise! You only have to believe in Allah as your only Lord worthy of all worship and that Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam is Allah's last messenger sent to the world after Jesus and others!
Allah has neither son nor partners to help him. He is the creator, cherisher and sustainer of all that exists!

I will then encourage you to say the Kalimah and to have faith in it!

It was narrated from Anas that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) visited a man from among the Ansaar when he was sick and he said: “O maternal uncle, say Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah.” He said: “Maternal uncle or paternal uncle?” He said: “Maternal uncle.” He said: “Is it better for me to say it?’ He said: “Yes.” Narrated by Ahmad, 13414. Al-Albaani said in Ahkaam al-Janaa’iz: its isnaad is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim.

AntiChristian:

Adam is the father of Mankind. If we all inherit Adam's sin and Jesus was born by Mary one of Adam's generation, how was Jesus exempted from inheriting the sin of Adam?
Moreover, the real misconception is that humans inherit sin from Adam. Adam's sin is for him only! And Allah has forgiven Adam in the Qur'an.
Allah is most Gracious Most Merciful! Why would He not forgive one person and allow all his generations inherit sins from him?

AntiChristian:

Of course, Muslims won't understand it as it is illogical for 1+1+1=1. The addition = 3. They are separate from one another! So they are different. They have different thrones in heaven where the son seats at the right side of the father! Sin against the spirit is Not forgivable Whereas sins against the father/son can be forgiven by discretion!
The Trinity is false! The association of Jesus and a Spirit with God is Shirk! Islam is always strict with the worship of Allah alone

“Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent” John 17:3

“A certain ruler asked him: ‘Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’
‘Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good – except God alone.’” Luke 18:18-19

“The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.
And he said to him, ‘I will give you all their authority and splendour, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.
So if you worship me, it will all be yours.’
Jesus answered, ‘It is written: “Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.”’”
Luke 4:5-8

Believing in and worshipping Allaah alone, besides Whom there is no other god, is the greatest teaching brought by the Messiah, and it is the greatest teaching brought by all the Prophets.

“One of the teachers of the law came and noticed them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’

‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.”

The second is this: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no commandment greater than these.’

‘Well said, teacher,’ the man replied. ‘You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.’

When Jesus saw that he has answered wisely, he said to him, ‘You are not far from the kingdom of God.’ And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.”
Mark 12:28-34

You can see Jesus say that the man above is not far from the Kingdom of God! The man never believed Jesus will die! Nor does he even believe in your trinity!

AntiChristian:

Death is the exit from this present world to the life of the grave. It will either end in punishment or bliss till resurrection day!

AntiChristian:

There is forgiveness for one who dies in Islam. We are commanded not to die except as Muslims. Even at death, there are some rewards that can still be recorded for the dead! That is established in Islam. https://www.nairaland.com/4372370/deeds-meet-dead-muslims

AntiChristian:

This is why you are a snake. Legalwolf, lukuluk69, Haekymbahd. In one hand you'll be telling us you are preaching salvation yet on the other hand you'll be telling lies! I have never being to Mecca. So that means my sins have never being forgiven?
And it is common knowledge that Muhammad was human! Allah is far above being human or being conquered by death one of His creation!
Say, "It is only God who deserves all praise. He has not begotten a son and has no partner in His Kingdom. He does not need any guardian to help Him in His need. Proclaim His greatness. Qur'an 17:111

Everything Allah made were by His word "Be" and it becomes. You are the one who is ignorant. Allah created the earth in six days but we know He can do it with a command in a fraction of a seconds! His command "Be" initiates the process which occurs spontaneously as He wills and is completed when He wills.

Jesus raised the dead by Allah's leave! Abraham too did same by Allah's leave. Even an unnamed Prophet was shown how a body that has decayed would be raised up. All this happened in the Qur'an.

Jesus too was praying in the Bible. Why would he pray? Why did he say he can of himself do nothing?

Abeg what is "may" in Arabic? The truth is Allah forgives whoever He wills and He punished whoever He wills.

MrCodeSolo:

Now, I know you bible people know nothing about pre-islamic arabs.
you are talking about the ilah, hubal. In Arabian mythology, Hubal (Arabic: هُبَل) was a god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably by the Quraysh at the Kaaba in Mecca. The god's idol was a human figure believed to control acts of divination, which was performed by tossing arrows before the statue.
"Religion in pre-Islamic Arabia was a mix of polytheism,
Christianity, Judaism, and Iranian religions.
pre-islamic arab polytheism, the dominant belief system, was based on the belief in deities
and other supernatural beings such as djinn.
Gods and goddesses were worshipped at local shrines, such as the Kaaba in Mecca."

The idol's devotees fought against followers of the Islamic prophet Muhammad(pbuh) during the Battle of Badr in 624 AD. After Muhammad (pbuh) entered Mecca in 630, he destroyed the statue of Hubal from the Kaaba along with the idols of all the other pagan gods.

go and read more to know much more better

Donkmore:


Actually, I didn't read this thread. But the Bible according to George Bernard Shaw is the most dangerous book on Earth. He said keep it in the lock and keys.

No honest person will still be a Christian considering the amount of clear contradictions in the Bible.
The book does not have a claim from God that it's his own
Even the word Bible is no where in the Bible

God is not the author of confusion
So there is no way the Bible with so much controversy can be from him.

Clear evidences

drlateef:




Thank you so much for your short and apt answers. They are so much in delusion. Allah says nobody can release them from the delusion. That’s why we must not waste our time on him.

TenQ:

I believe you can explain the delusions I posted for your friend
1. If you read the bible, there is NO WHERE where God Wrote ANYTHING in the Bible except the 10 commandments which was broken by Moses and he had to rewrite it with his own hands.
2. The Quran is acclaimed by muslims that it is the VERBATIM word of Allah dictated to Mohammed through Jubril and it is PERFECTLY preserved till today.
[i]If this claim is true
1. Why does Allah think that the Sun sets inside Murky Waters: I believe you know a little geography
2. Why did Allah say that men have their semen/reproductive fluid coming from their backbone while the women have their reproductive fluid coming from their ribs: again I expect that you know a little biology
3. Why did Allah forget that he is above going to hell fire in the Al-Fathia and he is praying to who for salvation
4. Why did Allah think mary the mother of Jesus is the Daughter of Amran (who is the Father of Moses) and mary is actually the sister of Aaron?
5. If Allah dictated the Quran, how come he seem not to know what he created FIRST?
6. Why did Allah (if he is God) allow Prostitution for Muslims and the guidelines for it in the Quran
7. Why did Allah think marrying and divorcing children is OKAY?
If these are untrue I can give you Quranic references: what if they are all TRUE?

[/i]Can you please explain: each of these contradictions and delusions?

TenQ:

1. If you read the bible, there is NO WHERE where God Wrote ANYTHING in the Bible except the 10 commandments which was broken by Moses and he had to rewrite it with his own hands.
2. The Quran is acclaimed by muslims that it is the VERBATIM word of Allah dictated to Mohammed through Jubril and it is PERFECTLY preserved till today.
If this claim is true
1. Why does Allah think that the Sun sets inside Murky Waters: I believe you know a little geography
2. Why did Allah say that men have their semen/reproductive fluid coming from their backbone while the women have their reproductive fluid coming from their ribs: again I expect that you know a little biology
3. Why did Allah forget that he is above going to hell fire in the Al-Fathia and he is praying to who for salvation
4. Why did Allah think mary the mother of Jesus is the Daughter of Amran (who is the Father of Moses) and mary is actually the sister of Aaron?
5. If Allah dictated the Quran, how come he seem not to know what he created FIRST?
6. Why did Allah (if he is God) allow Prostitution for Muslims and the guidelines for it in the Quran
7. Why did Allah think marrying and divorcing children is OKAY?
If these are untrue I can give you Quranic references: what if they are all TRUE?

Can you please explain: these contradictions

AntiChristian:
Of course you'll never see it. Even in the post he asked me a question there are lies! But you guys only have eyes but no insight!

Can you show me the word "Taqquiya" in the Qur'an or Hadith? These are part of the lies you guys always bring up! You will claim we read your book out of context but when we say you read ours out of context you'll say we are liars!
This is hypocrisy!

As for your claim that you understand your text why not agree we understand ours too?

Your whole body and soul stinks of hypocrisy!

LegalWolf:
Lol, TenQ you do no one good by writing 'volume of words' that end up being meaningless. I try to keep my point simple. And not just that, I think you recognize the folly of your argument and that is why you cannot adequately frame your thoughts or deliberately repeat questions I have answered. Let us get to the point
I need to break it down to you like a baby. Conceded it is the man who needs to pay the fine. I think that answers your question, right? But the dilemma here which I stressed in my previous post is not from the angle of the child. It is a two way thing. Both the Judge need to impose the judgment and the child need to pay the price. And the implication of that proposition has been clearly explained!!!!!!!!!

LegalWolf:
Hey TenQ
1. From what you have written, it will appear to a logical mind that yhwh NEEDS sacrifice before he can forgive sin. Is my understanding correct?

TenQ:

The Nature of God is to give a Command "BE" and whatEVER God's will is is EXECUTED to the letter. Sin is that which challenges the command of "BE " of God. SIN is that which challenges the AUTHORITY of God to be God! God judges it with an infinite Judgement

God does not NEED sacrifice to forgive SIN, it is Man who need a sacrifice/exchange for his sin to be atoned

LegalWolf:

Even a dumb imbec1le gets the point. The judge is incapacitated because he most follow a law he cannot change. To bring it more bluntly, yhwh is incapacitated to change the law he made. And that raises questions of whether he is truly the one who made it.

LegalWolf:

Let me quote what I said previously. Now on your question, the simple answer it is inconceivable to a Muslim mind that something wouldn't if God says Be. I can't think of it as a Muslim. If God says Be and It isn't, then he ceases to be God. Ce fini!

You are in a hurry to answer questions without reflecting on the points I have canvassed. Let the argument sink in, self-reflect, weigh it and don't be overly defensive.

LegalWolf:

And on the second question.. what does 'holy' mean? In what sense? I do not know of God's commandment that we should be 'holy'. Please explain.

LegalWolf:

I needed to seperate this part because it is relevant to our conversation, The amputated part will be discarded. TenQ you are not talking to a group of retards in your church that deferentially calls you 'father' or 'brother'. This is a public forum where right thinking men obtain information. Apparently, you did not read my post and just jumped to what your pre-conceived myopic opinions led you to. I directly answered your question by saying:

..... I can drink from either of the two cups, to the extent they are very clean. When cleaning our nephew’s poo, at times my hand gets stained. . I even threw a question to you that Should I cease to eat with that hand because it is stained with poo AFTER washing my hands?

So it baffles me when you say I did not answer it!

TenQ:

Answering the Question will help you understand the magnitude of SIN to God!
Look at my full (first) analogy of the excrement. Let me modify it a little to fax sense into you

I asked you a simple Question to Illustrate it. if you had answered it, you would have understood the concept.
Which of this two cups will you drink from
a. First Cup:
Contains one teaspoon of human TenQ's excrement (but already washed with soap and water)
OR
b. Second Cup:
Contains thirty teaspoon of human TenQ's excrement (but already washed with soap and water)


The above is to help you see that CLEANING a vessel DOES NOT remove the fact that it is UNFIT for Use Again. My Washing it with Soap and Water and even Bleach changes NOTHING!

TenQ:

All you ended up saying is nonsense. Unless one is insane, I bet it does not make sense to you as well. ... Blood of Sacrifice is a Representation of the Evidence that LIFE has been taken . WTF does that mean?

The simple point I have established is that BOTH under the Old Testament and the New Testament, Blood (of sheeps or his co-god) is a sine qua non for yhwh to forgive. Simple!

If you agree with the Message of Jesus but disagree with the idea that god took his blood to forgive, you go no where. If you repent from SIn and live according to the rules of the Messiah without accepting the preposterous idea that the blood of yehoshua is sacrificed for your sins, again you go no where . Is that not correct?

. Last I checked, the topic here is the gospel explained for Muslims, is that not correct?

TenQ:

TenQ you are saying balderdash and it is surprising how people one may suppose to be right thinking could conceive you have a functional brain. Stray humans for example like advocatejare . Does that guy think at all?

Now to your question (underlined), how am I to know the answer to your question? I am less than 50 years in age and you are asking me to provide evidence to something of thousands of years ago. Whether God's commandment has been violated? Is this what they teach you in Bible School?

Modified: I have always rated you lowly. Like someone without a functional brain and to be played with. The same way you see white folks play with dogs and that is exactly how I see you (particularly on my free time)

But just a quick question - would you tell us where God’s commandment of Be did not materialise, ehn?

LegalWolf:
This is quite a bold take. Unlike the stray advocatejare , you appear to be a little bit sensible and I’ll give you a little bit of attention



This is interesting. So who told you Christians concept of sin is the correct one??!!!!!!! I am curious and please enlighten me.



Again, this stems from a position of ignorance than insight. And you folks keep missing the point. Being a MMuslim is not a condition for forgiveness. Your sins may be forgiven and you’ll find yourself in paradise if God so wills.

The key thing here here is the ABSOLUTENESS of his discretion and nothing else. And he exercises that discretion as promised. Because he is the omniscient and omnipotent, knowing everything that happens in the recesses of our minds, he will always forgive us if we come genuine repentance. After all, is sin not individual rather than communal?

Is that not uncomplicated to a simple mind like yours?



I think you are more interested in rebutting than appreciating logic and the deficiency of your religion. Because I clearly answered the question you are referring me to. Please go back to my previous post, read it objectively, digest it and come back to me where you have issues. We are talking of logic here?



I’ll take the last parts together. Why would God cast people into hell and the Quranic concept of sin right?
The point is: Our religion invites us to use our reason every single time and you know deep down you that faulting our example is just exercise in futility. I have demonstrated that whole concept of blood atoning sin is just hogwash and something we should not find with right thinking men. It should be in the dustbin.

This does not answer your question of why God cast anyone into eternal fire. The answer is a very simple one. IT DEPENDS ON THE CHOICES THEY’VE MADE IN LIFE . Shikena! Hypothetically, if I was born in deserts of Namibia where I was raised well, did not hear the word of Islam and died living a righteous life, I may find myself in paradise.

Again, hypothetically, a non- Muslim sin may be forgiven if Allah so wishes and he lives in true repentance thereafter. There is NO REQUIREMENT for blood sacrifice. This is the point I’ve toiled to stress for TenQ and all right thinking humans.

Salaam

drlateef:





Let’s discuss that in another forum. But one thing you must take home: bible was the word of humans who wrote letters and stories to form a book. If this is false, just say that. If you agree with that, how can you then claim its the word of God?

TenQ:

I believe you can explain the delusions I posted for your friend
1. If you read the bible, there is NO WHERE where God Wrote ANYTHING in the Bible except the 10 commandments which was broken by Moses and he had to rewrite it with his own hands.
2. The Quran is acclaimed by muslims that it is the VERBATIM word of Allah dictated to Mohammed through Jubril and it is PERFECTLY preserved till today.

Donkmore:

Please give me Quranic verses so explain some for you.
The as per what you call prostitution I don't understand. Because islam is against that.

Donkmore:

You see the problem you people do have with Quran is explanation of verses which if you read the commentry you will understand.
Just read the commentry of those verses and you are good.

Donkmore:

But your own book has contradictions that is one lie / one truth.

In Samuel we are made to know " Saul enquired of the Lord but he did not answer him by dream or prophet"
But Chronicles said " he did not inquired so God killed him"
Did he or did he not inquire.( Which Is the lie which is the truth)

Keturah Genesis said is Wife of Abraham, Chronicles said She is not wife but concubine.
What is she? (Which is the lie which is the truth)

Lord moved David to number isreal another said. Satan provoked him. Who did? Satan or the Lord? Who lied? Because Satan and God are not synonymous terms
The list goes on and on actually
Is you want the verses I can provide for you

FxMasterz:


I think I'll focus only on this question you asked: "This is interesting. So who told you Christians concept of sin is the correct one??!!!!!!! I am curious and please enlighten me." All other discourse without the clarification of this question would yield no positive result.

First, I want you to understand that Islam is a mixture of Judaism in small measure, Christianity in small measure, and some purely Islamic elements in great measure.

For the most part, the prophets of Islam are Israel's prophets. Don't let anyone deceive you; all of Israel's Prophets were Yahweh worshippers. NON of them knew about or ever heard the name of any God called Allah.

FxMasterz:

Some of these prophets bear Yahweh names. Even the name Jesus means Yahweh saves. These prophets didn't just bear Yahweh names but also fully exercised themselves in the practices that Yahweh established including the atonement rituals for sins.

How Mohammed imported Yahweh's prophets into Islam, gave them another God and even associated some new stories with them really baffles me.

FxMasterz:


If the issue of atonement for sins in Islam is contrary to Yahweh's perspective, then Yahweh's prophets shouldn't be Islam's prophet.

These prophets made atonement for sins and even prophesied the coming of a Messaiah who'll make Himself a sacrifice for sins.

The Messaianic concept has a Jewish and Christian origin but the moment it got Imported into Islam, the concept changes in definition and form.

Now, how can you logically reconcile the fact that Yahweh's prophets are Islam's prophets but the practices of the prophets are not followed in Islam. Of what import is their prophethood?

Also, how do we logically resolve the issue of Messaiah, a word only used by Jews and Christians which have the same meanings to both sect but once it got Imported into Islam, the story changes entirely?

The prophets of Israel whom Islam references do not conform to such doctrines or notions that promote forgiveness of sins without atonement.

TenQ:

Allah supports Prostitution in the Quran
Mohammed later abolished prostitution ( in fact, he allowed, disallow, allowed and disallowed prostitution until it was finally forbidden by Caliph 'Umar)

Sunni Islam may be against prostitution BUT Allah NEVER abrogated it in the Quran: if you have such evidence , present it.

But which is WEIGHTER, the Words of Allah or the Words of mohammed?


Allah says that the Quran is SIMPLE to UNDERSTAND isn't it?
Quran 6:114
hall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'an), explained in detail …
Quran 16:89
… And We have sent down on thee the Book making clear everything, and as a guidance and a mercy, and as good tidings to those who surrender.
Quran 41:3
A Book whereof the Verses are explained in detail; A Qur'an in Arabic for people who know

Why does the Clear word of Allah need Special INTERPRETATION by Human beings?



Your claim is that the bible was written by humans, therefore it is not necessary to contest your opinion!

Is the Quran the EXACT words of Allah dictated through Jubril and Perfectly Preserved?
YES!

Therefore, it is okay to TEST the VALIDITY of the Claims of Islam and the Quran!

Therefore, I challenge you on each ITEM below that SHOW that it is IMPOSSIBLE that an All-Knowing God Wrote the Quran. In fact the Quran bears all the marks of the intelligence and knowledge of a 600 AD Arab writer.

Again:

So, once again
If this YOUR CLAIM is true about the Quran
1. Why does Allah think that the Sun sets inside Murky Waters: I believe you know a little geography
2. Why did Allah say that men have their semen/reproductive fluid coming from their backbone while the women have their reproductive fluid coming from their ribs: again I expect that you know a little biology
3. Why did Allah forget that he is above going to hell fire in the Al-Fathia and he is praying to who for salvation
4. Why did Allah think mary the mother of Jesus is the Daughter of Amran (who is the Father of Moses) and mary is actually the sister of Aaron?
5. If Allah dictated the Quran, how come he seem not to know what he created FIRST?
6. Why did Allah (if he is God) allow Prostitution for Muslims and the guidelines for it in the Quran
7. Why did Allah think marrying and divorcing children is OKAY?
If these are untrue I can give you Quranic references: what if they are all TRUE?

Can you please explain: each of these contradictions and delusions?


Lets go One Verse at a time if you DARE!
Suppose I can prove at least one of them to be TRUE, would you agree that the author of the Quran cannot be God (but MAN)?

LegalWolf:
Lol! Your logic is always antithetical to common sense. ALWAYS!
I have dealt with this logic of Israelites prophets bearing yhwh name extensively somewhere else. Even TenQ could NEVER in a thousand years rebut the logic of my argument. Please run through my post as I am unwilling to repeat myself.
.

TenQ:

I guess you should explain how some of your prophets have the name containing Yahweh and the WHOLE Quran is a STRANGER to Yahweh

English Hebrew Arabic....................................... Meaning
Elijah (English) Eliyahu (Hebrew) Ilyās(Arabic) Yahweh is my God (Meaning)

Zachariah (English) ZakarYah (Hebrew) Zakariyau(Arabic) Yahweh Remembers (Meaning)

Jesus (English) Yehoshua/Yeshua (Hebrew) Isah(Arabic) Salvation of Yahweh (Meaning)

John (English) Yahiya/Yohanan (Hebrew) Yahyah(Arabic) Yahweh is Gracious (Meaning)


Allah the God of Mohammed and you Muslims is ALIEN to Yahweh the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

Just explain How Allah called his prophets with the names reflecting Yahweh and Yahweh is ABSENT in the 99 Names of Allah?

TenQ:
Since you are slow in learning and you can understand my previous post, I will distil it as a single question for you
Please answer these Questions
Jubril and Ismail are meaningful Hebrew names in the Qur'an. What do they mean!

I await your stupid EVASIVE answer as usual!?

TenQ:
The OP raised an observation:
Allah gave his prophets with the names of other deities (paraphrased)

EXAMPLES:
No muslim have been able to explain :

Let me help you out with the basics


Gabriel (English) Jubril (Arabic) Gavri-El(Hebrew)
'God is my strength" (meaning)

Ishmael(English),
Ismail(Arabic)
Ishmay-El(Hebrew) God Hears or God will hear (meaning)

Samuel(English) Samuil/Shamil(Arabic) Samu-El (Hebrew) "God has set" or "God has placed"(meaning)

Michael(English) Mika'il(Arabic) Mikha-El (Hebrew) "Who is like God?" or" there is none like God" (meaning)


So, We cay say:
1. I presume that Allah gave Jubril and Mika'il their names: so, in your opinion why did Allah name them after the Canaanite god?
2. Ishmael and Samuil are your prophet in Islam. Why are they bearing names that praises EL the Canaanite god?

LegalWolf:
Lol! Your logic is always antithetical to common sense. ALWAYS!



Lol. Do you know that Muslims believe that prior to the Prophet, every nation (tribe/clan) etc. had their prophets?

If I tell you that don’t let anyone deceive you, Christianity is a mixture of Judaism, Hellenistic Polytheism and Roman Polytheism etc., what would be your response?

Please answer those two questions



I have dealt with this logic of Israelites prophets bearing yhwh name extensively somewhere else. Even TenQ could NEVER in a thousand years rebut the logic of my argument. Please run through my post as I am unwilling to repeat myself.



You folks like muddling points up. First of, the Jewish concept of messiah is radically different from Christian concept. In fact, it is irreconcilable and that is why Jews do not even believe in Yehoshua is a prophet not to talk of being a god!

Before I even go into further analysis, this attempt to work your answer backward is infantile. So tell me, I beseech thee (relying exclusively on OT) the following:

1. Clear text of the Bible that contradicts the Islamic position that God would not forgive if you come to him in true repentance

2. Very clear text of the Bible that says that a Messiah would have to be sacrificed and his blood will atone for the sins of all humanity.

Just the writings of the Israelite prophets and not NT, please.

FxMasterz:


……

Whatever you've ever said or written or explained logically regarding Israel's prophets would never change the fact that Israel and her prophets have been worshippers of Yahweh from Moses till today. Your so called superior logic cannot erase that history. If you have a contrary opinion, give me an extra-islamic source that confirms that Israel's prophets were Allah worshippers.

The Messaianic concept in Christianity and Judahism is the same. The only differences are the process of fulfilment, mode of fulfilment as well as the personality that fulfils the role. Apart from this two, both Jews and Christians agree on everything Messaiah, meanwhile, Islam has a completely opposing concept.

To your requests:
1. You are not actually getting the points. I have told you clearly in a previous post that it is one thing to be forgiven and another thing to be cleansed from the contamination left behind by sin. What that tells you in simple terms is that God forgives a repentant sinner, but to bring the sinner close to Himself, the sinner must undergo cleansing. God loves fellowship, but He can't fellowship with you while your contamination still remains. So, the request you made here is not in tandem with my position.

2. Of what use will this Messaianic scripture reference be to you? 1,000 such scripture verses would make no difference regarding your position, so I don't see the logical reason why I should be obliged.

…..

.

LegalWolf:
It’s draining having logical arguments with you Christians. In fact, almost impossible.

I asked very specific questions and you ended up not answering them. Please could you refer to my previous posts and answer my questions.

Let us start from there!



Just a side note - you said messianic concept of Judaism and Christianity is the same. Yet in the same line, you went ahead to mention at least THREE differences! Really?

I don’t even want to waste my energy typing, please provide unambiguous answers to the questions I asked you. Thank you

LegalWolf:
Smiles, beloved brother. Of course, I know before I begin that there is nothing I tell you that will make you change your beliefs. However, you asked for my opinion and that I will give you. But three core points may be stated here:

1. I do not claim to know God's intention. In fact, the way I conceive it is that God ABSOLUTELY knows the innermost recesses of my thoughts while I am perpetually incapable of knowing HIS intention.

2. But the statement above needs to be properly caveated: I can only rationalize but not know what God intends. Muslim ends many arguments by saying 'Allahu Ahlam' meaning God knows. So that attribute of knowing 'why' he does things is left to HIM and HIM alone.

3. Finally, I am a Muslim for so many reasons and perhaps one of the interesting ones is that Islam admonishes us to think, to self-reflect and find knowledge wherever possible. This to mind clearly demonstrates the superiority of Islam above other religion (of course, I know you think otherwise. But that is my opinion). Now to the issues at hand:



Apologies accepted. We do not need to bicker and hurl insults when discussing serious issues of faith. Or do we?



This is the core of my opinion (of course, rationalizing Allah's thoughts and touching on the questions as formulated by the OP):

Premises
1. The starting point we should know is that 'actions are judged according to intentions' .

2. The second premise we should know is something called 'Interpretatio graeca'. Simply explained, in clash of cultures, some cultures tend to borrow the name of a God of another.

3. Lastly, in Islam, we believe every community (or probably culture) has a prophet.

Argument

I have been looking for the best way to couch this argument but I am in a hurry as I need to attend to other matters. So properly constructing an argument and drawing pieces of evidence from several cultures may not be appropriate at this time. But when I have time and I want to revisit the matter, I will.

But to simply restate the point, the Al-Mighty God I worship knows who is been referred to when a culture appropriates a name of another God for it. Let me give you an example that readily comes to mind. When TenQ, who I always assume to be a Yoruba, prays to God that 'Olorun help me', God ought to know that he is not referring to the head of the Yoruba pantheon also called Olorun or Eledumare but 'El Shaddai'.

Take the example further, If Advocatejare Great Grandfather- a person I also assume to be Yoruba and who probably worships Esu, prays that Esu should help him. He is certainly referring to Esu as a member of the Yoruba pantheon of Gods and not the Biblical Satan. But look at we have: Olorun has been approximated to El Shaddai and this continues to this day. Same with Esu to Satan and this continues to this day!

El Shaddai has sent these prophets to there people and the culture preceding them has approximated Yhwh (who I believe to be completely different) to El Shaddai. But my strong opinion is that God in his infinite mercies know that who they are referring to by that name is El Shaddai just as he knows that when TenQ calls Olorun, he is referring to HIM. Speculatively, the prophet God sent to the Yoruba people (if any) may have been Olorun something!

..........




Thank you for the compliments. I may not be able to respond to later tonight or early morning of tomorrow. But I hope that explanation satisfies you.

Cheers and have a wonderful day!

LegalWolf:
Hey TenQ

On the 13 December 2022, I canvassed the following argument (which you were mentioned) reproduced below. Just to clarify - I never said I responded to you or answered your question. Why would I spend my time explaining my religion to a person destined by a thief? A future armed robber - Lawrence TenQnih. Nah. I have other things to do. But for the sake of completeness, here you have it



cc: Lawrence TenQnih the future thief

FxMasterz [you can run through the post and that gives you an insight into my explanation. I made further rebuttals and you should check that as well]

FxMasterz:



I have gone through the post but I don't think it answers the question at hand.

The main point you made is what you referred to a clash of cultures. By that I think you're trying to excuse the use of Yahweh's name in Israel's prophets as a cultural clash, or perhaps, you're trying to excuse the names of the prophets's appearance in Islam with the Yahweh appellation as a cultural clash. None of these two proposals address the issue in any way.

This is because the matter is not just in the names of these prophets but in their person. Judaism and Islam are religions and not cultures in the actual sense of the word. There's no cultural clash whatsoever. What we have here is an importation of persons from one religion to the other.

Yahweh has many names or may I say appellations to His name. One of such is Yahweh Elshaddai or to use the Latin form, you'll often hear Christians say "Jehovah Elshaddai" which means The Lord our Banner. This name is used to refer to Yahweh in the old testament.

These persons had their names in the Quran and recognized as prophets. The Quran does not in any way deny that these prophets are of Jewish origin. The issue of what these prophets practiced or who these prophets worshipped or even who gave these prophets the messages they bore cannot be explained away as a cultural clash. This is absolutely illogical.

I still maintain my position and actually still remain baffled by the fact that Mohammed imported these prophets into Islam, gave them a new God, denied their messages and their modes of worship, and also gave them new histories still baffles me.
How come their messages were beheaded and their modes of worship completely reinvented in Islam?
These people believed and preach the atonement. If Islam rejects what they preached, how can they be Islam's prophets?