God is a spirit that exists but he loves and created us, he Possesed Jesus who died for us because and he loves us too You can talk to him through the spirit because he is a spirit and has super powers, owner of sand and wealth of the world can hear and answer our prayers, Amen

[size=13pt]<sup>The Judeo/Christian Bible has always used extreme fear as a tool to keep people away from the occult, sorcery, "witchcraft,” and workings of the mind. In the article below, the reasons are obvious. In order for a spell to succeed, the victim must lack the necessary knowledge, be a good sheep, and just "believe."

"YHVH" aka "Yaweh" "Jehova" is nothing more than a system of Jewish magick. "YHVH" known as the "tetragammaton" represents the four corners and elements, as does "INRI" along with the four gospels; these represent the four corners of magick and the four elements that are so important in any magickal working. "YHVH" is used extensively in (Jewish) magick. The Jews stole the Kabalah from the Egyptians and corrupted it. It is mainly chanted- "Yod Heh Vau Heh" in different combinations.

The Gentile people have been force fed Christianity in order to strip us of all knowledge and power. Those at the top play both sides against the middle. What this means is the enemy works from within both sides- each side bashing the other while they both move ahead.</sup> [/size]

Ogaga4Luv:

[size=13pt]<sup>The Judeo/Christian Bible has always used extreme fear as a tool to keep people away from the occult, sorcery, "witchcraft,” and workings of the mind. In the article below, the reasons are obvious. In order for a spell to succeed, the victim must lack the necessary knowledge, be a good sheep, and just "believe."

"YHVH" aka "Yaweh" "Jehova" is nothing more than a system of Jewish magick. "YHVH" known as the "tetragammaton" represents the four corners and elements, as does "INRI" along with the four gospels; these represent the four corners of magick and the four elements that are so important in any magickal working. "YHVH" is used extensively in (Jewish) magick. The Jews stole the Kabalah from the Egyptians and corrupted it. It is mainly chanted- "Yod Heh Vau Heh" in different combinations.

The Gentile people have been force fed Christianity in order to strip us of all knowledge and power. Those at the top play both sides against the middle. What this means is the enemy works from within both sides- each side bashing the other while they both move ahead.</sup> [/size]

werrin be this? sounds interesting but complicated, me no understand

Sagewood:

@ tbaba1234,

As thought provoking as your discussion topic may sound, together with your "so-called" rational debate, the debate "unfortunately"
cannot be rational. This is because no scientific theory or hypothesis can be applied to the existence or workings of the Almighty God.
When it comes to things related or connected to God's existence, you either believe or don't based on your faith.

Believing The Truth based on your faith.

Find below references from the bible.

Faith is believing in what is true. Faith has two elements: 1) being convinced of the truth, being certain of reality, having evidence of unseen things, and 2) believing, hoping in, embracing, seizing the truth.
Heb 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 11:1 (NIV) Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Heb 11:1 (NEB) Faith,  makes us certain of realities we do not see.

Heb 11:1 (Mof) Now faith means that we are confident of what we hope for, convinced of what we do not see.

Heb 11:1 (Wey) Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.

It is a matter of faith, not scientific inquiry, reasoning or rationalization.

A christian will say faith only but in islam there is no faith without reason; That is why the Quran asks you to use your intellect:

"And what reason have you that you should not believe in God?  the Messenger calls on you that you may believe in your Lord, and indeed He has made
a covenant with you if you are believers."

There are many verses that ask the simple ", will you not reason?"

Do those who reject faith not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together [as one unit of creation], before we clove them asunder? We made from
water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

tbaba1234:

I just wanted to engage with the atheist and show some of them the absurdity of their world view,

are you there? are you saying your God was not created?

bayooooooo:

@tbaba1234 are you saying you God was not created?  

yes man that is what i am saying!

tbaba1234:

yes man that is what i am saying!

Interesting! Kindly explain how your God come into existence.

some questions may never be answered

Krucifax:

Mr Poster by definition every process or event has a "Beginning" or "Cause". This immediately invalidates any concept of an "Uncaused Cause". Understandably this illogical concept is normally espoused by people "overly" (read i have a faith system) subscribed to religious ideals, which inevitably brings us to the "God" question.

You can address the question two ways, with or without logic(read faith).  The former demanding that the maker most have had a maker whilst the latter skids the question with uncontested acceptance of largely antiquated and inheritted ideologies(albeit one still to be proved to be a bad thing).

Ultimately Mr Poster any route you chose to address this question you will always almost inevitably arrive at thesame conundrum,and it is this. I am a believer in the popular saying that "Logic and scientific formula" will be the final arbiter for all physical phenomena and it is for the very reason we have not being able to decipher a/the God/s. The concept of God is unquantifiable,incalculable,unobservable and immeasurable. It will always be a mystery.

So the answer is simple,there isn't one!!

All of my arguments have been based on logic,and i still come to the same answer, Please produce logical responses to the points, i have raised?

bayooooooo:

Interesting! Kindly explain how your God come into existence.

If you read the first post, you will see the absurdity of such a question,

Come on atheists:: I am getting really disappointed

tbaba1234:

If you read the first post,  you will see the absurdity of such a question,

I know infinity does not exist in real world but not in reality though. I gave you a simple answer: Man created God!
You said your God was not created. Then explain his existence, shikena

#jambquestion oya oya ask your mummyyyyyyyy

Maybe you can ask God to reveal his creator to you in a dream

bayooooooo:

I know infinity does not exist in real world but not in reality though. I gave you a simple answer: Man created God!
You said you God was not created. Then explain his existence, shikena

Bayoooo, please read my posts!!  I showed that the universe could only have come into existence in four ways

1. Created or brought into being from nothing
2. Self caused or self created
3. Created or brought into being by something else that began to exist
4. Created or brought into being by a non-created or un-caused entity

I disproved the first three based on simple logic: and showed that a universe from an uncaused cause fits perfectly with the Quranic argument for God>>>


Created or brought into being by something else that began to exist

This is not an adequate explanation for the origins of the universe. The universe could not have owed its existence to another state of temporal physical existence. To maintain such an explanation would be equivalent of expanding the boundaries of the universe, as all things which have a temporal beginning exist within the universe. Also, if temporal physical existence owes itself to another temporal physical existence ad infinitum, it doesn’t explain anything. Rather it highlights the absurdity of an infinite regress, and that there has to be a beginning to the temporal physical states, which logically must be a non-physical state.

Take the following example into consideration. If the universe, U1, followed another temporal cause U2, and U2 followed another temporal cause U3, and this went on ad infinitum we wouldn’t have the universe U1 in the first place. Think about it this way, when does U1 come into being? Only after U2 has come into being. When does U2 come into being? Only after U3 has come into being. This same problem will continue even if we go to infinity. If U1 depended on its coming into being on a chain of infinite temporal causes, U1 would never exist. As the Islamic Philosopher and Scholar Dr. Jaafar Idris writes,

“There would be no series of actual causes, but only a series of non-existents, as Ibn Taymiyyah explained. The fact, however, is that there are existents around us; therefore, their ultimate cause must be something other than temporal causes.”[11]

Created or brought into being by a non-created or un-caused entity

Since something cannot come from nothing, and self creation is absurd, including the unreasonableness of the aforementioned explanation, then the universe being created or brought into existence by an uncaused entity is the best explanation. This concept is intuitive but also agrees with reality: whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator.

This cause or creator must be uncaused due to the absurdity of an infinite regress, in other words an indefinite chain of causes. To illustrate this better, if the cause of the universe had a cause and that cause had a cause ad infinitum, then there wouldn’t be a universe to talk about in the first place (something we have already discussed above). For example, imagine if a Stock Trader on a trading floor at the Stock Exchange was not able to buy or sell his stocks or bonds before asking permission from the investor, and then this investor had to check with his, and this went on forever, would the Stock Trader every buy or sell his stocks or bonds? The answer is no. In similar light if we apply this to the universe we would have to posit an uncaused cause due to this rational necessity. The Qur’an confirms the uncreatedness of the creator, God,

“He neither begets nor is born.” Qur’an 112:3

The cause or creator for the universe must be a single cause for several reasons. An attractive argument to substantiate this claim includes the use of the rational principle called Occam’s razor. In philosophical terms the principle enjoins that we do not multiply entities beyond necessity. What this basically means is that we should stick to explanations that do not create more questions than it answers. In the context of the cause for the universe we have no evidence to claim multiplicity, in other words more than one. The Qur’an affirms the Oneness of the creator,

“Say: He is God, [who is] One.” Qur’an 112:1

However some philosophers and scientists claim: why doesn’t the cause be the universe itself? Why can’t the cause stop at the universe? Well, the problem with these claims is that they would imply that the universe created itself, which we have already discussed, is absurd. Additionally, we have good reasons to postulate a cause for the universe because the universe began to exist, and what begins to exist has a cause.

Our argument thus far allows us to conclude that this cause or creator must be non contingent meaning that its existence is dependent on nothing but itself. If it were contingent it would be one more effect in the chain of causes. The Qur’an verifies this,

“God is Independent of (all) creatures.” Qur’an 3:97

The cause or creator must also be transcendent, this means that the cause of the universe must exist outside of and apart from the universe. Since this being exists apart from the universe it must be non-physical or immaterial, if it was material then it would be part of the universe. This is confirmed in the Qur’an,

“There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing” Qur’an 42:11

This cause must have the power to create the universe, without this ability nothing could be created. The Qur’an testifies to God’s power,

“Certainly, God has power over all things.” Qur’an 2:20

This cause must have a will, because it wouldn’t be able to create the universe without one. What this means is that it must have a will so the power to create could be acted on. The Qur’an refers to God as having a will in many places, for instance,

“And God guides whom He wills to a straight path.” Qur’an 2:213

In summary, we have concluded what the Qur’an concluded over 1400 years ago, that a creator for the universe exists, that is one, has a will, is powerful, uncaused, immaterial and eternal.

Disputing infinity in a logical sense just proved how God was created - it's based on human reasoning.

[size=13pt]<sup>Before we can discuss the existence of a thing, we must define it. Christians have endowed their God with all of the following attributes: He is eternal, all-powerful, and created everything. He created all the laws of nature and can change anything by an act of will. He is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just. He is a personal God who experiences all of the emotions a human does. He is all-knowing. He sees everything past and future.

God's creation was originally perfect, but humans, by disobeying him, brought imperfection into the world. Humans are evil and sinful, and must suffer in this world because of their sinfulness. God gives humans the opportunity to accept forgiveness for their sin, and all who do will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven, but while they are on earth, they must suffer for his sake. All humans who choose not to accept this forgiveness must go to hell and be tormented for eternity.

One Bible verse which Christians are fond of quoting says that atheists are fools. I intend to show that the above concepts of God are completely incompatible and so reveal the impossibility of all of them being true. Who is the fool? The fool is the one who believes impossible things and calls them divine mysteries.</sup> [/size]

The beginning of the universe is different from the beginning - Just want to quickly correct that.

all4naija:

Disputing infinity in a logical sense just proved how God was created - it's based on human reasoning.

No, i disputed the absurdity of an Infinite regress  to show that the Universe had a cause that could not be caused: I used a logical explanation for the existence of God; It doesn't mean i have no other argument: I know logic appeals to atheists,  It transcends human reasoning,

Ogaga4Luv:

[size=13pt]<sup>Before we can discuss the existence of a thing, we must define it. Christians have endowed their God with all of the following attributes: He is eternal, all-powerful, and created everything. He created all the laws of nature and can change anything by an act of will. He is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just. He is a personal God who experiences all of the emotions a human does. He is all-knowing. He sees everything past and future.

God's creation was originally perfect, but humans, by disobeying him, brought imperfection into the world. Humans are evil and sinful, and must suffer in this world because of their sinfulness. God gives humans the opportunity to accept forgiveness for their sin, and all who do will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven, but while they are on earth, they must suffer for his sake. All humans who choose not to accept this forgiveness must go to hell and be tormented for eternity.

One Bible verse which Christians are fond of quoting says that atheists are fools. I intend to show that the above concepts of God are completely incompatible and so reveal the impossibility of all of them being true. Who is the fool? The fool is the one who believes impossible things and calls them divine mysteries.</sup> [/size]

i am not a christian so i can't defend the christian world view

tbaba1234:

No, i disputed the absurdity of an Infinite regress  to show that the Universe had a cause that could not be caused: I used a logical explanation for the existence of God; It doesn't mean i have no other argument: I know logic appeals to atheists, It transcend human reasoning,

The universe has a cause at some point not always! Come on. There is nothing incorrect about infinity looking at it from a logically perspective. You would find out that the sharp edge of a Knife is irreducible at infinity man, just that you can see it with your naked eyes.

[size=13pt]^{Yeah u don't need to defend Christianity how which you were Christian when seeing so many things is wrong with their so- called doctrine that is causing confusion here and there in the World today .}  [/size]

tbaba1234:

i am not a christian so i can't defend the christian world view

Since something cannot come from nothing, and self creation is absurd, including the unreasonableness of the aforementioned explanation, then the universe being created or brought into existence by an uncaused entity is the best explanation. This concept is intuitive but also agrees with reality: whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator.

Forget about the beginning of universe. Let us settle the beginning of God first because he must have created the universe right?  

The strength of your argument, paradoxically, is also it's weakness. Look at the highlighted part and answer this question: Since you admit something cannot come from nothing and self creation is absurd ( ) and whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator, then What caused the uncaused entity to exist?

all4naija:

The universe has a cause at some point not always! Come on. There is nothing incorrect about infinity looking at it from a logically perspective. You would find out that the sharp edge of a Knife is irreducible at infinity man, just that you can see it with your Unclad eyes.

you have come up with a mathematical concept this is not practical in the real world,

what realy do atheist believe in?i wanna hear an atheist tel me, and lets start from there, becos as we all knw wit our common senses, the way a new born baby or a 2year(infant) old cannot fully grasp all d ways of his parents,so also as infants in Gods eyes we cant understand his havin no begginin, imagine some1 who created d heavens d earth, d more we try to deliberate on this issue d more we'l never get answers, questions like this are beyond us no matter what we think, we all grow old and die, no human,no scientist has been able to stop that and here are atheist tryin to find out who created God, u'l all turn to dust in trying to find answers, always wanna joke with d creator, u can doubt God for all u can but a day of reckoning is impending, wether y'all like it or not you'l knw a supreme being definitly exists,

bayooooooo:

Since something cannot come from nothing, and self creation is absurd, including the unreasonableness of the aforementioned explanation, then the universe being created or brought into existence by an uncaused entity is the best explanation. This concept is intuitive but also agrees with reality: whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator.

Forget about the beginning of universe. Let us settle the beginning of God first because he must have created the universe right?  

The strength of your argument, paradoxically, is also it's weakness. Look at the highlighted part and answer this question: Since you admit something cannot come from nothing and self creation is absurd ( ) and whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator, then What caused the uncaused entity to exist?

If self creation is absurd then you have to tell me about elementary particles. They are entity bearing their own universe.Come on, there is nothing so absurd than thinking it is when it is not!

[size=13pt]<sup>What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete--it needs nothing else.  

We humans engage in activities because we are pursuing that elusive perfection, because there is disequilibrium caused by a difference between what we are and what we want to be. If God is perfect, there can be no disequilibrium. There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist. A perfect creator God is impossible.</sup> [/size]

I don't blame Hawkins who said God is not needed in the cause of the universe.

bayooooooo:

Since something cannot come from nothing, and self creation is absurd, including the unreasonableness of the aforementioned explanation, then the universe being created or brought into existence by an uncaused entity is the best explanation. This concept is intuitive but also agrees with reality: whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator.

Forget about the beginning of universe. Let us settle the beginning of God first because he must have created the universe right?  

The strength of your argument, paradoxically, is also it's weakness. Look at the highlighted part and answer this question: Since you admit something cannot come from nothing and self creation is absurd ( ) and whatever begins to exist has a cause or a creator, then What caused the uncaused entity to exist?

The argument i made is that in the real physical world given the set rules we know; the concept of infinity is in conceivable. It is not rational to apply such a reasoning to the metaphysical because that is unobserved, We already proved that the cause is transcendent,

all4naija:

I don't blame Hawkins who said God is not needed in the cause of the universe.

Oh i have a response to dawkins too : https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-801064.0.html

some answers may never be found

tbaba1234:

you have come up with a mathematical concept this is not practical in the real world,

I only know of one world that is the physical world and that world I am saying that is possible!Can you see quark? Then, it is on that knife sharp edge.