WesleyanA:

I totally agree with you Grafikdon.
same applies to pretty much every religion including christianity where people can read the bible and interpret it to suit their imagination or wishes/ beliefs.

This is a very silly comparison. Wake me up when christians start killing their neighbours in the name of Christ. Muslims are not the only people who "misinterprete" their quran, why are they the only ones to consistently turn their "misinterpretation" to violence?

WesleyanA:

i have muslim friends from senegal too. it's so surprising how attitude of people with same religion changes with geographic location.

95% of Senegalese are muslims.
Based on this flawed comparison, do we assume that since we dont have problems of religious riots in Saudi Arabia that it is an oasis of peace?

One thing that cuts across from your ill-timed contribution is that this topic is not about whether christians have been innocent but RATHER about countering the usual islamic attempt to put down the constant religious crisis in the north down to "tribal conflict" rather than the religious problems they really are.

no. this topic presents an incident (title: "northern nigerian killer muslims at work again". content: article from paper) and invites members to give their opinion about it.

the original poster did not mention anywhere in his post about the topic you just made up for yourself.

i've made my contribution, and i'm off. . .

WesleyanA:

no. this topic presents an incident (title: "northern nigerian killer muslims at work again". content: article from paper) and invites members to give their opinion about it.

the original poster did not mention anywhere in his post about the topic you just made up for yourself.

Next time do much more than read the topic, 2 posts on the last page and suddenly assume you know everything that is being discussed. Clearly the real discourse has long shifted from the title of the thread.

WesleyanA:

i have muslim friends from senegal too. it's so surprising how attitude of people with same religion changes with geographic location. but then these locations have different cultures and therefore, the way they practice their religion will reflect that.

The Fulani make up 24% of the Senegalese population. Different cultures?

@all


please you guys should go to google or the CIA website to check what the Vatican is.


And davidylan your idiotic brain goes as far ask trying to convince me that if Nigeria grants Canaan Land independence, they are still not a nation on their own. Guy, are you wearing your brain backwards? If Nigeria declares my house independent of it. That is my own nation.

Thank you for reminding me that the Euro is used by European countries. So I too will then ask you that since France's national currency is the Euro too, does that mean France is not an independent nation? You are a real malu.
So what about the Vatican Lira? Maybe it was a worldwide currency too.

Please go and check what the Swiss Guards are.


By the way, it may be relevant to tell you that the Vatican has embassies in several countries. Maybe you would say they are just church branches too. And since these embassies issue visas, perhaps Pastor Enoch Adeboye will soon start issuing visas to foreigners and stamping their passports.


davidylan, how many times will I tell you? That you are ignorant of many things don't make them false or inexistent.


I have also encouraged you through time to read more and eat less. Read more, Eat less. That should be like a new motto for you.


Meanwhile the Vatican is ranked as about the 232nd smallest Nation in the world. Are you now going to suggest that by nation, what is really meant is Church?


Please go into your arsenal and bring up one of your argumentative tactics:

1. Deny that you are a jew (though I don't know of any relevance which this may have in the current discussion, but you may just do it anyway. It is in the manual).
2. Impugn your adversary by tagging them a self proclaimed idiot, followed by calling them a bigot.
3. Impugn your adversary by calling them an anti-semite.
4. Accuse you your adversary of hate, racism and being a white supremacist (though I don't know of what good this may be too).
5. Put in all effort to ridicule your opponent and totally assassinate their character so that whatever facts they declare will be doubted.
6. Employ dualisation of meaning and ambiguation of meaning of the information in order to make any conclusion inspecific.
7. When you are totally trapped in a corner and don't know what to say, employ tactics of diverting attention, duplicity, derailing the argument or ask unconnected questions in order that you may find loopholes in your opponent's answer, and then attack.
8. Of course, if all these fail, you can now use your multiple IDs to come in and be supporting yourself and backing your own inane points.

@all


please you guys should go to google or the CIA website to check what the Vatican is.


And davidylan your idiotic brain goes as far ask trying to convince me that if Nigeria grants Canaan Land independence, they are still not a nation on their own. Guy, are you wearing your brain backwards? If Nigeria declares my house independent of it. That is my own nation.

Thank you for reminding me that the Euro is used by European countries. So I too will then ask you that since France's national currency is the Euro too, does that mean France is not an independent nation? You are a real malu.
So what about the Vatican Lira? Maybe it was a worldwide currency too.

Please go and check what the Swiss Guards are.


By the way, it may be relevant to tell you that the Vatican has embassies in several countries. Maybe you would say they are just church branches too. And since these embassies issue visas, perhaps Pastor Enoch Adeboye will soon start issuing visas to foreigners and stamping their passports.


davidylan, how many times will I tell you? That you are ignorant of many things don't make them false or inexistent.


I have also encouraged you through time to read more and eat less. Read more, Eat less. That should be like a new motto for you.


Meanwhile the Vatican is ranked as about the 232nd smallest Nation in the world. Are you now going to suggest that by nation, what is really meant is Church?


Please go into your arsenal and bring up one of your argumentative tactics:

1. Deny that you are a jew (though I don't know of any relevance which this may have in the current discussion, but you may just do it anyway. It is in the manual).
2. Impugn your adversary by tagging them a self proclaimed idiot, followed by calling them a bigot.
3. Impugn your adversary by calling them an anti-semite.
4. Accuse you your adversary of hate, racism and being a white supremacist (though I don't know of what good this may be too).
5. Put in all effort to ridicule your opponent and totally assassinate their character so that whatever facts they declare will be doubted.
6. Employ dualisation of meaning and ambiguation of meaning of the information in order to make any conclusion inspecific.
7. When you are totally trapped in a corner and don't know what to say, employ tactics of diverting attention, duplicity, derailing the argument or ask unconnected questions in order that you may find loopholes in your opponent's answer, and then attack.
8. Of course, if all these fail, you can now use your multiple IDs to come in and be supporting yourself and backing your own inane points.

davidylan:

Next time do much more than read the topic, 2 posts on the last page and suddenly assume you know everything that is being discussed. Clearly the real discourse has long shifted from the title of the thread.

The Fulani make up 24% of the Senegalese population. Different cultures?

there's no such thing as the "real discourse" unless specified by the original poster.
my initial posts on this topic were in response to the quotes i found interesting and my opinion on this topic in general. I don't see why exactly you have a problem with that.


yeah there can be different cultures if a people of the same origin live in different locations. culture is influenced by environment you know.
a nigerian in nigeria will be different from an american nigerian in culture.

Deny that you are a jew
though I don't know of any relevance which this may have in the current discussion, but you may just do it anyway. It is in the manual

nice observation. I thought i was the only one who noticed that tactic.
a topic about muslims will all of a sudden turn into a random argument about highways. lol

i smell trouble. [s]slinks out of thread before rocks start flying[/s]. [size=8pt][/size]

@ WesleyanA, i'll just ignore your pesky little presence.

@ Denex  
Oh la la! Since when did the CIA become the yardstick by which we measure what is a real state or not? There are less than 750 "citizens" in your Vatican state, "citizenship" unlike normal nation states is not by birth since you can only be a citizen if one of your parents is a "citizen" which is revoked when you turn 25 or get married as a woman. Citizenship status is also automatically revoked the minute your terms of employment ends at the Vatican - - Tell me Denex, where else in the world is such practiced?

The Swiss guards are not an army!! Sir Denex, even the Swiss dont have a standing army!   Are you this thick or is this the curse of islam? Do we suddenly assume that the Blackwater security company operating in Iraq is also an army?

By what yardstick do we define the word "nation"? Is the Vatican comparable to Saudi Arabia as you have so desperately struggled to prove?

Yes the vatican has "embassies" that issue visas but is that the yardstick for nationhood? Puerto Rico is not officially a nation as it is a colony of the US, yet it has a legislature but NO embassies. On what scale of nationhood would you place them?

Does being a muslim automatically switch ur brains to "i cant think for myself" mode?

Employ dualisation of meaning and ambiguation of meaning of the information in order to make any conclusion inspecific.

another excellent observation. OMG so on point

i was actually a little tempted to explain what i mean by "american nigerian" in details. lol

Please go into your arsenal and bring up one of your argumentative tactics:

1. Deny that you are a jew (though I don't know of any relevance which this may have in the current discussion, but you may just do it anyway. It is in the manual).
2. Impugn your adversary by tagging them a self proclaimed idiot, followed by calling them a bigot.
3. Impugn your adversary by calling them an anti-semite.
4. Accuse you your adversary of hate, racism and being a white supremacist (though I don't know of what good this may be too).
5. Put in all effort to ridicule your opponent and totally assassinate their character so that whatever facts they declare will be doubted.
6. Employ dualisation of meaning and ambiguation of meaning of the information in order to make any conclusion inspecific.
7. When you are totally trapped in a corner and don't know what to say, employ tactics of diverting attention, duplicity, derailing the argument or ask unconnected questions in order that you may find loopholes in your opponent's answer, and then attack.
8. Of course, if all these fail, you can now use your multiple IDs to come in and be supporting yourself and backing your own inane points.

Denex, i'm sorry but i just had to quote this for further emphasis. it couldn't be so farther away from the truth.

denex:

Thank you for reminding me that the Euro is used by European countries. So I too will then ask you that since France's national currency is the Euro too, does that mean France is not an independent nation? You are a real malu.
So what about the Vatican Lira? Maybe it was a worldwide currency too.

No sir, i specifically indicate that the Euro is the official currency of the EU and NOT European countries (as some, like Turkey, are not in the EU). The British, the French e.t.c. however still retain their national currencies for reasons best known to them.

The Vatican used the Lira before the Euro, i bet you wouldnt know that the Lira is the Italian national currency would ya?   You're such a clueless tool!

denex:

Please go and check what the Swiss Guards are.

I checked, they still dont qualify as an army! Is blackwater an army?  

denex:

Meanwhile the Vatican is ranked as about the 232nd smallest Nation in the world. Are you now going to suggest that by nation, what is really meant is Church?

So if someone ranks my village as the 2320th smallest city on earth it will suddenly become a city?   You have issues.

There's no point going into the rest of ur drivel.   You're such a clown. Thanks for the entertainment.

WesleyanA:

Denex, i'm sorry but i just had to quote this for further emphasis. it couldn't be so farther away from the truth.

this is another example somebody used in some other thread (might even be you!)

person: this is a car
davidylan: NO it is not!! it is an automobile!!!!

Your childlike chatter does not merit a full response. Keep masturbating yourself there.

*cough* i'll pretend i didn't see that last comment.
i'll take spoilt's and denex's cue and leave.

OK back to topic.

what would Muhammad say ?

"May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of the prophets." Bukhari, Vol. 1, #427

[Muhammad had been poisoned years earlier by a Jewish woman whose husband was killed by the Muslims and the poison had slowly worked its effect. He said this while dying in the arms of his wife Aisha].

any doubts why they kill?
where is the peace they tell us about?

LMAO


As much as I hate to admit it, I am seriously begining to think that our northern neighbours are beyond redemption

Uche2nna:

LMAO


As much as I hate to admit it, I am seriously begining to think that our northern neighbours are beyond redemption

and we southerners are the ultimate redeemed.
we should spread our redemption to them like the US is doing in Iraq. those uncivilized muslims.

@ Wes

I do not mean "redeemed" in that sort of way. And definitely not the kind of redemption that Monsieur Bush is touting around.

What I am saying is that there is no year that passes without some religious upheaval somewhere in the north. It has become a staple in the nigerian polity. The question is no longer "If" but "when". If after the first religious upheaval (which happened sometimes in the late seventies), historically known as mai tasini, we are still dealing with the same problem from the same quarters then I can only draw one conclusion. When I was told of the mai tasini story, I never thot I would see myself in that kind of situation. Alas, I was wrong. I lived in Kano for 12 years, starting from my toddler years and I can still remenber harrowing experiences. I did not lose any immediate family but I sure did lose some friends.

I hyave left Kano for quite sometime now but You see the story remains the same. Hence, my conclusion.

WesleyanA:

and we southerners are the ultimate redeemed.
we should spread our redemption to them like the US is doing in Iraq. those uncivilized muslims.

I might be wrong, but i coulda sworn that Bush never claimed he was waging war on Iraq to envangelize 'em and spread the good news.
as i remember he called it a 'pre-emptive strike' and a 'war of 'liberation'. Hardly christian stuff.

Please, can't any of you marshal good arguments without falling back on the Iraq war?

@Uchenna, oh my mistake. je suis desole

i have never heard of mai tasini. what was the story around that?
i don't really expect change anytime soon either unless something revolutionary (at most) happens.
is there as much of a northern population in the south (ie. hausas in the south) as there is a southern population in the north (igbos and yorubas in the north)?
there weren't many northerners in the south when i lived in Nigeria. but i hear there are many southerners in the north. this can be a potential reason why there is more conflict up there.

the north also has religion as a large part of its politics and society as a whole so it would be harder for a christian to live in the north than for a muslim to live in the south where the laws are modeled after British laws and therefore free from religious constraints/ secular. (if nigerian christians created the laws themselves rather than getting ideas from the west (esp britain), southern nigeria will probably be some Salem right now 'cause we are a really conservative and religious people)
the north however has a lot of it's laws based on the koran.
i don't know if this makes sense to anyone but it makes a lot of sense in my mind. just don't know how to articulate it.

creating some sort of "separation of church mosque and state" in the north will be one way to solve conflict.

plus, this might be much insignificant but there is correlation between poverty and level of violence in general.

there are so many factors to be considered why the situation is the way it is and i guess that's the only way to find a solution is to know the causes of the problem.



what i don't like is how some of the post on this topic suggest that northerners are inherently barbaric.

texazzpete:

I might be wrong, but i coulda sworn that Bush never claimed he was waging war on Iraq to envangelize 'em and spread the good news.
as i remember he called it a 'pre-emptive strike' and a 'war of 'liberation'. Hardly christian stuff.

Please, can't any of you marshal good arguments without falling back on the Iraq war?

"redemption" or liberation doesn't have to carry a religious connotation.
the US have a history of trying to "liberate" others. (religously at first, but US is more secular now than in the past so religion can't be used as a pretext for invasion anymore)
and islam right now in the US is almost synonymous with barbarism (just like traditional african religions during the precolonial times). i guess the US wants to spread "civilization"

i was just making an association but it turned out that i misunderstood uchenna's post in the first place. so it's all good.

@WesleyyanA,

Forgive the slowpoke davidylan, the only thing that makes sense to him is what he thinks or says. Maybe when he is through with his free education in the US he will mature a bit and then understand that people are bound to see things differently and only reason or clarification will help in convincing others, not abuses and insults.

@Denex,

Na wah for you ooo, you still dey take davidylan serious?

After his response on the Vatican you should have tuned in to the latest cartoon to watch rather than waste time on this student slowpoke, I never knew that the quality of education in the US has gone down to this level or is one boy trying to drag the quality down all by himself?

davidylan:
@ Denex, the Vatican is not a country but a church!! Do the Vatican have a national football team, a ministry of mineral resources, a president, secretary of state, governors, state capital? Do they have elections and political parties?

Well, the Vatican could mean the Holy See (the governing body of the Roman Catholic Church) or Vatican City, the smallest independent state in the world.

However, the context is clear. Rabbi davidylan has shown ignorance on all things concerning the Roman Catholic Church, Rome, the Vatican, and Europe.

RichyBlacK:

Well, the Vatican could mean the Holy See (the governing body of the Roman Catholic Church) or Vatican City, the smallest independent state in the world.

However, the context is clear. Rabbi davidylan has shown ignorance on all things concerning the Roman Catholic Church, Rome, the Vatican, and Europe.

Hehehe. . . . . .I beg, make una borrow am one pair of contact lens for there, make e take read di thing wey you type here, well well! ROFLMAO!

Denex referal to the Vatican was to justify the fact that Saudi Arabia,a nation of 27 million inhabitants,prohibits Bibles and Churches

The comparisons are fundamentally flawed.Yes,you can carry a Koran or Torah in public in Vatican City.Non-Catholics are allowed into the Vatican City and you can proselytise Islam in the Vatican City,no law prohibits such.

Of course there are no mosques in the Vatican,it has only 108 acres of land and frankly,no new building-mosque or Catholic Church-can be constructed within the Vatican.Unless Muslims wish to demolish buildings in the Vatican in order to build mosques.

A more realistic comparison would have been the Vatican and Mecca,even there you would find worse restrictions compared to the Vatican.Saudi Arabia should only be compared to Italy

RichyBlacK:

Well, the Vatican could mean the Holy See (the governing body of the Roman Catholic Church) or Vatican City, the smallest independent state in the world.

Can you in all sincerity compare Saudi Arabia(a nation of 27 million and 2.1 million sq km of land) to Vatican City(a city of 788 and 0.44KM of land) ?You have to agree with me that only a rabid imbecille will be comparing the 2.

laudate:

Hehehe. . . . . .I beg, make una borrow am one pair of contact lens for there, make e take read di thing wey you type here, well well! ROFLMAO!

lol did you use one when you kept up your twaddle about bibles being allowed into Saudi Arabia? The same old MO, ignorant birds of the same feather. . . flocking together when they have no way to defend the indefensible.
You know nothing about what you purport to discuss and you are claiming others are ignorant?
Carry your bible on Saudi Airlines then i will go get my contact lenses. Dumb morons.

I-man:

Can you in all sincerity compare Saudi Arabia(a nation of 27 million and 2.1 million sq km of land) to Vatican City(a city of 788 and 0.44KM of land) ?You have to agree with me that only a rabid imbecille will be comparing the 2.

Allow the blind people to keep leading themselves into the ditch. Denex and his Vatican "army" of 101.

Looking thru all the posts, it is now plainly obvious that we have a demarcation between two poles of religious extremists
with only Laudate as the voice of moderation.

To he/she I salute.

RichyBlacK:

Well, the Vatican could mean the Holy See (the governing body of the Roman Catholic Church) or Vatican City, the smallest independent state in the world.

However, the context is clear. Rabbi davidylan has shown ignorance on all things concerning the Roman Catholic Church, Rome, the Vatican, and Europe.

hahaha What a bunch of morons we have here. Anytime they lose the plot the next thing is to jump on the personal attack bandwagon. 4 blockheads put together and they still can't figure out the fact that the Vatican city is a church and not an independent nation in the way that you would descriibe Saudi Arabia.
I have never discussed the Roman Catholic church here on the politics thread, how do you then know that i have shown ignorance on issues concerning the roman catholic church?

What has Europe got to do with the issue? How can i show ignorance on an issue that we were not even talking about?

Rome? What has Rome got to do with this?

the Vatican? Take your head out of your ass, where is the vatican cities political parties and national football team? And you claim i have shown ignorance on that too?

And your bunch of fellow "i don't know anything but let me just join the bash davidylan train" are here heheheing you and patting u on the back?

Afam's case is very simple, at least unlike the other empty heads here he does not pretend to argue on issues he is clueless on, he just comes here to insult me. I'm fine with that.

In International Law,statehood is a matter of law and fact.Somaliland is de facto a state but a province of Somalia de jure,same goes for Kurdistan,Iraq .

The Vatican is as a matter of law a state but in reality,its a sprawling complex of ancient buildings akin to the campus of a major University.

WesleyanA:

plus, this might be much insignificant but there is correlation between poverty and level of violence in general.

I think u are rite. Add also the lack of education (enlightment) and u have the perfect environment for this kind of scenario. When u go to most places in the north u would not believe that this area had held power more than any other region in the country. The political elite just keep the resources all to themselves, they send thier children to good western schools but then passively or actively discourage the masses not to. Most people are encouraged to send thier children to koranic schools , hence the origin of the almajiris (students in the koranic school). These are the guys that usually carry out most of the mayhem in any religious crisis. The alhajis brainwash these guys and they take to the street destroying lives and properties.

ocho cinco:

Looking through all the posts, it is now plainly obvious that we have a demarcation between two poles of religious extremists
with only Laudate as the voice of moderation.

What is clear is that you don't know the meaning of words you use.Nobody here,not even Denex I despise,can be branded a "religious extremist".

Laudate is a blithering ignoramus who excells in matters of tribalism in Nigeria but is remarkably clueless about the outside world.

davidylan:

hahaha What a bunch of morons we have here. Anytime they lose the plot the next thing is to jump on the personal attack bandwagon. 4 blockheads put together and they still can't figure out the fact that the Vatican city is a church and not an independent nation in the way that you would descriibe Saudi Arabia.
I have never discussed the Roman Catholic church here on the politics thread, how do you then know that i have shown ignorance on issues concerning the roman catholic church?

What has Europe got to do with the issue? How can i show ignorance on an issue that we were not even talking about?

Rome? What has Rome got to do with this?

the Vatican? Take your head out of your ass, where is the vatican cities political parties and national football team? And you claim i have shown ignorance on that too?

And your bunch of fellow "i don't know anything but let me just join the bash davidylan train" are here heheheing you and patting u on the back?

Afam's case is very simple, at least unlike the other empty heads here he does not pretend to argue on issues he is clueless on, he just comes here to insult me. I'm fine with that.

ROFLMAO!! This is rich, coming from a guy that has used the words "thou fool" to describe a fellow poster and has told another "you are getting even more stupid," in a previous post. This was after saying "let's stop using our arses to think,'' in an attempt to denigrate others, just before he rounded up another post, using the words "your silliness knows no bounds." Kai! Now he is complaining about how people jump on the personal attack bandwagon, and how they have joined "the bash davidylan train."

Wonders shall never end! Alright, I think I know what the problem is. . . .davidylan can dish out the dirt, but he can't take it himself?? LMAO!!