Martian:


Source

The painting is dated to 10, 000 BC - Val Camonica, Italy.

Can you suggest an explanation for it,  kind, knowledgeble, scientific sir?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronauts

(I cite this link only as per the date and location of the painting).

Martian is "scientific" because he quotes wikipaedia to hide his ignorance. Hahahahaha!

One thing that i have learnt from the AAT is that there have been super technologically advanced civilizations on this planet that have existed side by side with more "primitive" communities of sentient beings for EONS. They co-existed together back then just like it still is today. That, for me, changed everything about how i view the past. And it explained a few things, too.

The theory made me completely discard the bullocks the mainstream scientists(archaeologists, paleontologists) have been telling us all along about our past and how the present humans are the pinnacle of evolution on this planet, even though i had my suspicions that there is more to our past than these guys have been "indoctrinating" us with in schools. I only have Van Daeniken to thank for that.

Jenwitemi:

Martian, the "wise" skeptic has run out of refutations. Too many evidences for him to refute and now he is hitting out with insults and mockery. Your wiki site has shut down or what?

Jenwitemi:

Martian is "scientific" because he quotes wikipaedia to hide his ignorance. Hahahahaha!

lol.
Fool, I"ve been mocking you ever since I came across your first post and you were talking about David Icke and his Reptillians as if they were facts only you knew about . I penned you as as an ignoramus when you were lamenting how you didn't have the latest "data" about some ridiculous notion another crazy person posted. Now I see the kind of data you've been saving on your hard drive. Ancient aliens.

Deep Sight:

The painting is dated to 10, 000 BC - Val Camonica, Italy.
Can you suggest an explanation for it,  kind, knowledgeble, scientific sir?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronauts
(I cite this link only as per the date and location of the painting).

Depiction of gods or astronauts? Distorted human figures?

You know where  I stand and astronauts are excluded.

Hey, martian. Why bring David Iyke into this? You still have a lot of refutations to do, so get cracking. If you can't do any more refutations then give it a rest, will ya. You are getting boring already. Cheers.

Jenwitemi:

Hey, martian. Why bring David Iyke into this? You still have a lot of refutations to do, so get cracking. If you can't do any more refutations then give it a rest, will ya. You are getting boring already. Cheers.

Because anyone who believes David Icke's BS is a clown and I don't feel like going back and forth with Bozo.

And besides, dude, Icke is still giving public talks to huge audience these days. If he were talking nonsense about reptilians, people would have turned their backs on him and he would've vanished into oblivion by now given that he's been giving public talks on that topic for well over a decade and is still going strong. There are things way beyond your tiny world view, mate.

Okay. Icke ain't important now. Go and do the refutations, please. Thanks.

Martian:

Because anyone who believes David Icke's BS is a clown and I don't feel like going back and forth with Bozo.

Jenwitemi:

Okay. Icke ain't important now. Go and do the refutations, please. Thanks.

I don't fetch water with baskets. Fetching water with a basket is what a discussion with you is. No matter how much exposure and knowledge you get, you won't retain any of it.

How do you have a rational discussion with someone who believes reptilians control the earth. If you believe that,then you'll believe that aliens built the pyramids. Oh, you already believe that. 

I don't fetch water with baskets.

Jenwitemi:

And besides, dude, Icke is still giving public talks to huge audience these days.

lol, of course. He has people like you!

Jenwitemi:

If he were talking nonsense about reptilians, people would have turned their backs on him and he would've vanished into oblivion by now given that he's been giving public talks on that topic for well over a decade and is still going strong.

There it is folks. Jenwitemi has finally spoken his piece. Reptilians control Nairaland.

Jenwitemi:

There are things way beyond your tiny world view, mate.

I know. The secrets on your hard drive. lmao

And there are more and more of such people now, dude. Too bad for people like you. Now to the refutations, shall we? Or you have nothing more to offer? Wiki don close shop?

Martian:

lol, of course. He has people like you!

Jenwitemi:

And there are more anbd more such people, dude. Too bad for people like you.

In your fantasies.
lmao. Reptiles!!!

Jenwitemi:

Now to the refutations, shall we? Or you have nothing more to offer? Wiki don close shop?

Reptiles built everything!!!!

Your fear is truly deeply ingrained, isn't it, martian. Your fear of the unknown and the unexplainable that exist outside your tiny little box stinks to high heavens. And that is why you resort to mockery in front of provided body of evidences that is irrefutable.
You are afraid that the little paradigm that you have built around yourself will collapse around you if you even try to entertain this issue of ancient aliens. I understand you, believe me, i do. But, i can assure you that there is nothing to fear. Fearlessness is what makes a good and scientific mind.

Martian:

In your fantasies.
lmao. Reptiles!!!

Reptiles built everything!!!!

Jenwitemi:

One thing that i have learnt from the AAT is that there have been super technologically advanced civilizations on this planet that have existed side by side with more "primitive" communities of sentient beings for EONS. They co-existed together back then just like it still is today. That, for me, changed everything about how i view the past. And it explained a few things, too.
The theory made me completely discard the bullocks the mainstream scientists(archaeologists, paleontologists) have been telling us all along about our past and how the present humans are the pinnacle of evolution on this planet, even though i had my suspicions that there is more to our past than these guys have been "indoctrinating" us with in schools. I only have Van Daeniken to thank for that.

Several scientists, such as Carl Sagan and I. S. Shklovskii, have written about Däniken's paleocontact and extraterrestrial visitation claims. While Sagan did not rule out the possibility of visitation, he said that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", which Däniken fails to provide.

In Chariots of the Gods?, Däniken wrote that a non-rusting iron pillar in Delhi, India was evidence of extraterrestrial influence.[14] In a later Playboy interview, when told that the column showed some signs of rust and its method of construction was well understood, Däniken replied that since writing the book he had learned of investigations reaching other conclusions, and no longer considered the pillar to be a mystery.[15]

Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs" from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and located the potter who made them. Von Däniken said that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw proof.[16]

In The Gold of the Gods von Däniken said he was guided through artificial tunnels in a cave under Ecuador, Cueva de los Tayos, containing gold, strange statues and a library with metal tablets, which he considered to be evidence of ancient space visitors. [b]The man whom he claimed showed him these tunnels, Juan Moricz, told Der Spiegel that all of von Däniken's descriptions came from a long conversation and that the photos in the book had been "fiddled". Von Däniken told Playboy that although he had seen the library and other places he had described, he had fabricated some of the events to add interest to his book.[[/b]17][18][10]

Dr. Samuel Rosenberg said that the "Book of Dyzan", referred to by von Däniken as if it was a real document,[19] was actually "a fabrication superimposed on a gigantic hoax concocted by Madame Blavatsky." He also says that the "Tulli Papyrus", cited by von Däniken in one of his books,[19] is likely cribbed from the Book of Ezekiel, and quoted Dr. Nolli (through Dr. Walter Ramberg, Scientific Attache at the U. S. embassy in Rome), then current Director of the Egyptian Section of the Vatican Museum, as "suspect[ing] that Tulli was taken in and that the papyrus is a fake."[20] According to NYT's Richard R. Lingerman, it is likely that von Däniken obtained these references from UFO books that mentioned them as real documents.[19]

Von Däniken brought the Nazca Lines to public prominence with his 1968 book Chariot of the Gods,[21] attracting so many tourists that researcher Maria Reiche had to spend much of her own time and money preserving them.[22] Von Daniken claimed that the lines were built following instructions from extraterrestrial beings, to be used as airfields for their spaceships.[23] In his 1998 book Arrival of The Gods, he added that some of the pictures depicted extraterrestrials.[23] Archeologists are sure that they were made by pre-columbian civilizations for cultural purposes, and they have not bothered refuting this sort of speculations.[23] Silverman and Proulx say this silence from archaeologists has harmed the profession and the Peruvian nation.[23] The idea was not original of von Däniken, it started as a joke made by people who first saw the lines from the air,[21] and had already been published by other people.[24] Skeptic Joe Nickell says that one of the cropped photos, claimed by von Däniken to be similar to the markings of a modern airport, was only the knee joint of one of the bird figures and was quite small in size.[21]

Von Däniken claimed in Chariots of the Gods? that a version of the Piri Reis map showed some distortions that would only happen if its was an aerial view taken from a spaceship flying above El Cairo, and that the map depicted some Antarctic mountains that were and still are buried into ice, and could only be mapped with modern equipment. His theory relies on the book of Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings by Charles Hapgood. This is debunked by A. D. Crown in Some Trust in Chariots. The map in von Däniken's book only extends 5 degrees south of the equator, which means that Antarctica does not appear. This also means that there would be no visible distortion in an aerial view of the same zone centered in El Cairo. [b]Von Däniken also claims the existence of a legend saying that a god gave the map to a priest, the god being an extraterrestrial being. But such a legend does not exist, Piri Reis always said that he had drawn that map himself using old maps, and the map is fully consistent with the cartographic knowledge at that time.[[/b]25] Also, the map is not completely accurate as claimed by von Däniken, since it contains several errors; a fact that vonDäniken didn't correct when he covered the map again his 1998 book Odyssey of the Gods.[26]

Kenneth Feder has accused von Däniken of European ethnocentrism,[27] while John Flenley and Paul Bahn have suggested that views such as his interpretation of the Easter Island statues "ignore the real achievements of our ancestors and constitute the ultimate in racism: they belittle the abilities and ingenuity of the human species as a whole."[28]

Ronald Story published The Space Gods Revealed: A Close Look At The Theories of Erich Von Däniken in 1976, written in response to the evidence presented in Däniken's Chariots of the Gods?. It was reviewed as "a coherent and much-needed refutation of Von Däniken's theories".[29]

A 2004 article in Skeptic Magazine states that Däniken plagiarized many of the book's concepts from The Morning of the Magicians, that this book in turn was heavily influenced by the Cthulhu Mythos, and that the core of the ancient astronaut theory originates in H. P. Lovecraft's short stories "The Call of Cthulhu" written in 1926, and "At the Mountains of Madness" written in 1931.[30]

[b]Speaking in a 2001 documentary, Von Däniken said that although he could not conclusively prove to the scientific community that any of the items in his archive were of alien origin, he felt that "today's science" would not accept such evidence, as "the time is simply not right". He argued that it was first necessary to "prepare" mankind for a "wonderful new world".[[/b]31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken
http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html

smh.

Jenwitemi:

Your fear is truly deeply ingrained, isn't it, martian. Your fear of the unknown and the unexplainable that exist outside your tiny little box stinks to high heavens.

lol

Jenwitemi:

And that is why you resort to mockery in front of provided body of evidence that is irrefutable.

I don't think you know what that word means.

Jenwitemi:

You are afraid that the little paradigm that you have built around yourself will collapse around you if you even try to entertain this issue of ancient aliens.

Yawn.

Jenwitemi:

I understand you, believe me, i do. But, i can assure you that there is nothing to fear. Fearlessness is what makes a good and scientific mind.

Reptiles!!!!!!

FYI,martian, Von Daeniken did not claim anything in his book. He asked QUESTIONS, dude, questions. The same kind of questions we are asking in this thread. Questions backed with overwhelming body of real life evidences that the mainstream scientists have failed to explain away till today. So what is your long post all about?

With his book, Von Daeniken invited broad and inquisitive minds to study very deeply this body of evidence that are strewned all over the planet and which can no longer be ignored or wave aside to see whether mankind need to rewrite our history. The attitude of the mainstream scientists is to totally firewall off all the eveidences put in front of them. The attitutde that is now earning them less and less respect by more and more people these days.

Martian:

Several scientists, such as Carl Sagan and I. S. Shklovskii, have written about Däniken's paleocontact and extraterrestrial visitation claims. While Sagan did not rule out the possibility of visitation, he said that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", which Däniken fails to provide.

In Chariots of the Gods?, Däniken wrote that a non-rusting iron pillar in Delhi, India was evidence of extraterrestrial influence.[14] In a later Playboy interview, when told that the column showed some signs of rust and its method of construction was well understood, Däniken replied that since writing the book he had learned of investigations reaching other conclusions, and no longer considered the pillar to be a mystery.[15]

Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs" from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and located the potter who made them. Von Däniken said that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw proof.[16]

In The Gold of the Gods von Däniken said he was guided through artificial tunnels in a cave under Ecuador, Cueva de los Tayos, containing gold, strange statues and a library with metal tablets, which he considered to be evidence of ancient space visitors. [b]The man whom he claimed showed him these tunnels, Juan Moricz, told Der Spiegel that all of von Däniken's descriptions came from a long conversation and that the photos in the book had been "fiddled". Von Däniken told Playboy that although he had seen the library and other places he had described, he had fabricated some of the events to add interest to his book.[[/b]17][18][10]

Dr. Samuel Rosenberg said that the "Book of Dyzan", referred to by von Däniken as if it was a real document,[19] was actually "a fabrication superimposed on a gigantic hoax concocted by Madame Blavatsky." He also says that the "Tulli Papyrus", cited by von Däniken in one of his books,[19] is likely cribbed from the Book of Ezekiel, and quoted Dr. Nolli (through Dr. Walter Ramberg, Scientific Attache at the U. S. embassy in Rome), then current Director of the Egyptian Section of the Vatican Museum, as "suspect[ing] that Tulli was taken in and that the papyrus is a fake."[20] According to NYT's Richard R. Lingerman, it is likely that von Däniken obtained these references from UFO books that mentioned them as real documents.[19]

Von Däniken brought the Nazca Lines to public prominence with his 1968 book Chariot of the Gods,[21] attracting so many tourists that researcher Maria Reiche had to spend much of her own time and money preserving them.[22] Von Daniken claimed that the lines were built following instructions from extraterrestrial beings, to be used as airfields for their spaceships.[23] In his 1998 book Arrival of The Gods, he added that some of the pictures depicted extraterrestrials.[23] Archeologists are sure that they were made by pre-columbian civilizations for cultural purposes, and they have not bothered refuting this sort of speculations.[23] Silverman and Proulx say this silence from archaeologists has harmed the profession and the Peruvian nation.[23] The idea was not original of von Däniken, it started as a joke made by people who first saw the lines from the air,[21] and had already been published by other people.[24] Skeptic Joe Nickell says that one of the cropped photos, claimed by von Däniken to be similar to the markings of a modern airport, was only the knee joint of one of the bird figures and was quite small in size.[21]

Von Däniken claimed in Chariots of the Gods? that a version of the Piri Reis map showed some distortions that would only happen if its was an aerial view taken from a spaceship flying above El Cairo, and that the map depicted some Antarctic mountains that were and still are buried into ice, and could only be mapped with modern equipment. His theory relies on the book of Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings by Charles Hapgood. This is debunked by A. D. Crown in Some Trust in Chariots. The map in von Däniken's book only extends 5 degrees south of the equator, which means that Antarctica does not appear. This also means that there would be no visible distortion in an aerial view of the same zone centered in El Cairo. [b]Von Däniken also claims the existence of a legend saying that a god gave the map to a priest, the god being an extraterrestrial being. But such a legend does not exist, Piri Reis always said that he had drawn that map himself using old maps, and the map is fully consistent with the cartographic knowledge at that time.[[/b]25] Also, the map is not completely accurate as claimed by von Däniken, since it contains several errors; a fact that vonDäniken didn't correct when he covered the map again his 1998 book Odyssey of the Gods.[26]

Kenneth Feder has accused von Däniken of European ethnocentrism,[27] while John Flenley and Paul Bahn have suggested that views such as his interpretation of the Easter Island statues "ignore the real achievements of our ancestors and constitute the ultimate in racism: they belittle the abilities and ingenuity of the human species as a whole."[28]

Ronald Story published The Space Gods Revealed: A Close Look At The Theories of Erich Von Däniken in 1976, written in response to the evidence presented in Däniken's Chariots of the Gods?. It was reviewed as "a coherent and much-needed refutation of Von Däniken's theories".[29]

A 2004 article in Skeptic Magazine states that Däniken plagiarized many of the book's concepts from The Morning of the Magicians, that this book in turn was heavily influenced by the Cthulhu Mythos, and that the core of the ancient astronaut theory originates in H. P. Lovecraft's short stories "The Call of Cthulhu" written in 1926, and "At the Mountains of Madness" written in 1931.[30]

[b]Speaking in a 2001 documentary, Von Däniken said that although he could not conclusively prove to the scientific community that any of the items in his archive were of alien origin, he felt that "today's science" would not accept such evidence, as "the time is simply not right". He argued that it was first necessary to "prepare" mankind for a "wonderful new world".[[/b]31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken
http://www.daniken.com/e/index.html

smh.

The underlying assumptions upon which this alien thing is found, is that human intelligence is unnatural. The architectural masterpieces such as the pyramids, lighthouse at Pharos , etc is not proof of aliens.

We don't understand sufficiently what these aliens are about, their appearance, evolutionary history, intents. . . We get to assume their spacecraft are like those in sci fi literature and movies, that all sentient beings tend to have 2 feet, stand up right, wear helmets all the time.

And like religion, this alien thingy feeds off mystery.

Abeg the insults are too much. I thought it would be an interesting eye opening discussion, but na so so yabbis. Make we leave am. My apologies for opening the thread. Thanks.

Jenwitemi:

FYI,martian, Von Daeniken did not claim anything in his book. He asked QUESTIONS, dude, questions. The same kind of questions we are asking in this thread. Questions backed with overwhelming body of real life evidences that the mainstream scientists have failed to explain away till today. So what is your long post all about?

He asked QUESTIONS dude! Then provided the answers dude! Aliens Dude! He has evidence Dude!

Von Däniken also claims the existence of a legend saying that a god gave the map to a priest, the god being an extraterrestrial being. But such a legend does not exist, Piri Reis always said that he had drawn that map himself using old maps, and the map is fully consistent with the cartographic knowledge at that time.[25] Also, the map is not completely accurate as claimed by von Däniken, since it contains several errors; a fact that vonDäniken didn't correct when he covered the map again his 1998 book Odyssey of the Gods

Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs" from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and located the potter who made them. Von Däniken said that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw proof.

Jenwitemi:

With his book, Von Daeniken invited broad and inquisitive minds to study very deeply this body of evidence that are strewned all over the planet and which can no longer be ignored or wave aside to see whether mankind need to rewrite our history. The attitude of the mainstream scientists is to totally firewall off all the eveidences put in front of them. The attitutde that is now earning them less and less respect by more and more people these days.

Speaking in a 2001 documentary, Von Däniken said that although he could not conclusively prove to the scientific community that any of the items in his archive were of alien origin, he felt that "today's science" would not accept such evidence, as "the time is simply not right". He argued that it was first necessary to "prepare" mankind for a "wonderful new world".

he's waiting for the return of Jesus.

What are they proof of, then? That stone age man isn't as stupid as have been portrayed by mainstream science?  It would mean then that stone age man is much smarter than modern man. That, in itself, is paradigm shattering enough. No wonder the mainstream science don't want to tackle the AAT.

Kay 17:

The underlying assumptions upon which this alien thing is found, is that human intelligence is unnatural. The architectural masterpieces such as the pyramids, lighthouse at Pharos ,  etc is not proof of aliens.

Deep Sight:

Abeg the insults are too much. I thought it would be an interesting eye opening discussion, but na so so yabbis. Make we leave am. My apologies for opening the thread. Thanks.

Blame the Reptilians. They control everything.

Martian.
Have you even read the book, dude, or are you just doing your regular wiki run on it, as usual?

Jenwitemi:

Martian.
Have you even read the book, dude, or are you just doing your regular wiki run on it, as usual?

Reptilians told me.

Provide links to back your claims of forgery by Von Daeniken. Until you do that, you are just yarning dust. Provide links so that i can assess their veracity. Von Daeniken does not have to fake anything to support his theories. There are tons of evidences to call upon. He does not need to forge anything.

Martian:

He asked QUESTIONS dude! Then provided the answers dude! Aliens Dude! He has evidence Dude!

Von Däniken also claims the existence of a legend saying that a god gave the map to a priest, the god being an extraterrestrial being. But such a legend does not exist, Piri Reis always said that he had drawn that map himself using old maps, and the map is fully consistent with the cartographic knowledge at that time.[25] Also, the map is not completely accurate as claimed by von Däniken, since it contains several errors; a fact that vonDäniken didn't correct when he covered the map again his 1998 book Odyssey of the Gods

Some also question von Däniken's credibility, as he has also knowingly put forward fraudulent evidence to advance his hypotheses, such as photographs of pottery "depicting UFOs" from an archaeological dig dating back to the biblical era. The PBS television series Nova determined that this was a fraud, and located the potter who made them. Von Däniken said that the deception was justified because some people would only believe his ideas if they saw proof.

Speaking in a 2001 documentary, Von Däniken said that although he could not conclusively prove to the scientific community that any of the items in his archive were of alien origin, he felt that "today's science" would not accept such evidence, as "the time is simply not right". He argued that it was first necessary to "prepare" mankind for a "wonderful new world".

he's waiting for the return of Jesus.

Martian:

Blame the Reptilians. They control everything.

Jenwitemi:

Martian.
Have you even read the book, dude, or are you just doing your regular wiki run on it, as usual?

@ Both. Please lets give it a final rest.I find the level of Martian's mockery odious. Simple rebuttals would be okay, but although i pleaded in the beginning for an absence of mockery, the thread has been an embarrasment of insults and mockery. Not even when I have pointed this out, has this abated. I thus wholly regret opening the thread and I apologise for doing so: I also apologise for my id.iotic and ignorant views expressed herein. Fellas, make we end am abeg.

Why am i even taking you seriously? I will blot you out permanently from now on.

Martian:

Reptilians told me.

Jenwitemi:

Why am i even taking you seriously? I will blot you out permanently from now on.

lmao!! If you haven't noticed already. I don't take you people seriously. "The Awareness. The immortal you that wasn't born never dies". Negro please!!!
Aliens and reptiles!! Holy crap!

Deep Sight:

@ Both. Please lets give it a final rest.I find the level of Martian's mockery odious.

lol. Mockery is what this deserves. Ancient aliens built the pyramids. Ha! As if ancient people didn't have brains.

It is not an error to have opened this thread, mate. The only error is having invited martian to the thread. You even gave him an undeserved honour of inviting him directly. That was your only error. The topic is a very interesting one and should be thoroughly discussed, but civilly and with open mind, of course. Such topics are never for close minded people like martian. I even smell fear in his reactions about the topic. He does not like it being discussed at all and i just wonder why.

But instead of letting the thread sink, we should just blot the guy out totally and concentrate only on those who really want to engage in meaningful discussions around the topic. My view.

Deep Sight:

@ Both. Please lets give it a final rest.I find the level of Martian's mockery odious. Simple rebuttals would be okay, but although i pleaded in the beginning for an absence of mockery, the thread has been an embarrasment of insults and mockery. Not even when I have pointed this out, has this abated. I thus wholly regret opening the thread and I apologise for doing so: I also apologise for my id.iotic and ignorant views expressed herein. Fellas, make we end am abeg.

Jenwitemi:

. Such topics are never for close minded people like martian. I even smell fear in his reactions about the topic. He does not like it being discussed at all and i just wonder why.

I only fear reptilians. Aliens don't bother me.

Deep Sight, have you heard of "Exo-Politics" before? Here are the youtube links, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=alfred+webber+exopolitics&oq=alfred+webber+exopolitics&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=25826l25826l0l26806l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0