all4naija: That South African blacks are not organized and the country has the world worst inequality while being the most developed country in Africa.

andrewza:

Really. They very well orgonised.

Yet we have less people per capter in pvety than nigeria.

morpheus24:

AndrewZA. The stats still doesn't cover up What all4 naija is alluding to in most of his posts whic is the overwhelming existence of xenophobia in black SA for other Africans which is constantly displayed in acts such as the dragging death of the mozambican and numerous other incidents that occur with poor African migrants. Remove Nigerians from the EQUATION and you will still find the exact same attitudes in Black SA

ITs time they face up to the demons that hunt them from their past and understand the new world they live in post Apathied where basically they were shielded from the rest of the world and African in particular.

The problems stems from the evil remnants of the attitudes of Apatheid regime which has bred ignorance, a terrible educational system for blacks, self esteem issues, lack of ability to compete in a global market and impunity for corrupt officials.

SOUTH AFRICA.... WELCOME TO POST COLONIAL AFRICA!!!

andrewza:

I don't dissputed that. Many south african at least don't want forghners here(or at least the poor ones) and there are a to large a number that hate them down here.

morpheus24:

Glad you clarified. They don't want the poor ones here and most likely the "black" ones either. If a Rich Nigerian man like Dangote who makes legit money moved to Sandton, he would still be considered an intruder by other Black south africans but if an EU citizen moved here with his SA girlfriend or boyfriend... "stole" a job from a qualified SA and now enjoys all the benefits of the country, he will be glorified as adding to the SA economy.

Your "people" have some serious issues to start resolving before they start talking bad about other people.

iam glad as a Whie SA you embrace all of your countries complexities s we do here in Nigeria.

morpheus24:

Hey RSA.. still here on nairaland huh, I knew you can't resist the urge to defend your motherland.lol

You see I told you, 6 years and counting , its still the same old arguements on nairaland about Naija vs SA.

We just are bred not to get along. At least I have come to that conclusion.

RSA:
Same old same old Mr Mo. Six years? Ja,thts a long time. I have aged a bit,see things a lot clearer now.I see the bigger picture now but defending my Republic will always be an honour. lol!

RSA:


Not a frequent user anymore,but do visit the site once in a while.
Funny how people are quick to scream xenophobia when in reality police are treating the locals even worse.The whole community in that area is protesting against the police in support of the deceased. yet you get idiots here who think black South Africans hate foreigners.I still say government of South Africa have never supported any form of xenophobia unlike Nigerian goverment that chased Ghananians away.There are lot of cases of police brutality on local and it never make headlines.I have travelled a lot in Africa and can tell u that police or army in most African countries are abusive and brutal.A lot need to be done with our police men.South Africans are the most loving and welcoming people in Africa,that is why we have so many foreign nationals in the country who are all living peacefully.

andrewza:


He not a south african. And all the cop there where suspended pending there court case and there station comander was all so suspended. They will serve there time in jail where they will have fun has only cops in jail can.

andrewza:

Really. They very well orgonised.

Yet we have less people per capter in pvety than nigeria.

paniki: All4naija try to say something positive about Nigeria. Educate us about Nigeria the same way that us South Africa have been educating you people about our country.

all4naija: Beside the jail and suspension pronouncements this case reveals how that society is way barbaric in handling crimes. They commit crime to fight crimes. Which is too bad of them. Many South Africans would come around to lay claims to how civilized and developed their society is yet what comes out daily on the news is shocking and points to uneducated citizens.

I dare you point to me how jail term and suspension find solutions to this primitive attack on innocent person on the street? Why didn't they handle the situation maturely even if the person in question is found with something incriminating? This is where I mostly disagree with many South Africans in this forum. How in the whole wide world would the police being acting as criminals?

Mind you South Africa being one-eye-nation of Africa the people think they can do anything they like to immigrants. It's a sad thing though. I look forward to the day this issue of xenophobic inclinations would be treated as high crime in that society but I doubt it will ever come.

all4naija: What does that say of your country having the world worst inequality? This statement is only binding if you have evidences to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the World Bank Gini index report on SA inequality is wrong.

The reason SA is organized than Nigeria is not the issue but how organized the blacks South Africans are in that society is what I would like you to point out with facts. When immigrants are brutally murdered on the streets, youths engage in crimes, increase in r-a-p-e-s only can be compared to that of Congo, dehumanising Nigerians at the ports of entering, putting all blames on Nigerians for crimes committed by citizens, increase in HIV/AIDS due to promiscuity, child abuses, police are becoming villains, xenophobic inclination, etc. I can't seem to phantom what is so organized about blacks in your society when those factors are of high magnitude.

Thank you.

andrewza:


Are they any better than your secirty personal who have straight out excuted people.

Beacause they wanted to hurt him. I don't agree with what they did but in SA Jail the worst you can get.

You blam south africa for miss treating fornghners of whom there are millions. If it is so bad why do they stay and more and more come to join them.

andrewza:


There is a huge gap between our rich and poor. But our poor are not has poor has many other countries the problem is our rich and middel class have so much more money. Look at a number UN reports and you will see nigeria has more people in povety than SA per capter.


There are a larg number of Black orgonistions, they all so run the country pretty while. If you statting poor people are not orgonised say that. It has less to do with skin collor and more to do with social econmic conditions.

all4naija: What an excuse! A thing any blind person can quickly spot in your comment. How does attacking people on the street deter more people from coming into your country? This your comment opens something about the way you people view immigrants. It would be civilized and right thing to do by fixing your porous borders and put up disciplined security men to watch them. And, depot those who coming illegally than attacking them on the streets.

Xenophobia is very alive in your society and I can even see that in your comment.

However, South Africa will be the least country I will ever set my foot on in my entire life. Even if it the life sustainer on earth, I would rather die than be there.

all4naija: I am talking about inequality in your society. Stop given excuse with Nigeria in comparison to dodge my question. You can tell that to World Bank who reported SA has the world worst inequality.

The fact is that your society is not organized is about the blacks who go about doing nothing than attack people and steal from them on the streets. The same people who resort to violence just to make their grievances heard. Have you forgotten Marakina massacre so soon? The incriminating ignorance about other Africans in your society. There is mass crime going on in your townships and you refused to accept that. It only speaks about how you take matter lightly in the light of facts. I can't stand and continue to listen to this your bogus comment challenging the integrity of the World Bank without any evidence!

Thank you.

andrewza:


where do you see a exuse i was just pointing out nigeria is the last place that should complian

why do you assume he is a illeagel. there are millions(not joking) of legal immergrants in sa.

2 things

we arrest thousand of border crossesers but can only deport them. once back in there home country they can just try to cross again

why dose nigeria not imploy it's well trained security forces to deal with BH and stop them from kidnapping people.

i even said there is a lot of xenophibia. so what is your point

then why you all ways talking about SA

andrewza:

where did i make a excuse. show me. i just pointed out that our poor are better off than the poor in nigeria. are you saying i am wrong.


so what about nigeria then. where BH kills and kidnaps to make a point. people rob ships at see, people steal fuel from fuel limes, your own secruty force exute people in both nigeria and when the deployed to serrileon.


people in glass houses should not throw rocks at others.

all4naija: I am talking about inequality in your society. Stop given excuse with Nigeria in comparison to dodge my question. You can tell that to World Bank who reported SA has the world worst inequality.

The fact is that your society is not organized is about the blacks who go about doing nothing than attack people and steal from them on the streets. The same people who resort to violence just to make their grievances heard. Have you forgotten Marakina massacre so soon? The incriminating ignorance about other Africans in your society. There is mass crime going on in your townships and you refused to accept that. It only speaks about how you take matter lightly in the light of facts. I can't stand and continue to listen to this your bogus comment challenging the integrity of the World Bank without any evidence!


Thank you.

snydergp:

Can u tell me what this thread is all about because it says where would SA be without whites, now u come and change issues to xenophobia, crime and poverty.

If u change the subject at hand and continually try to bad mouth south africans which the majority are peaceful people with only a minority making life hell for many, than u are just as xenophobic as the same people u accuse.
By doing this we south africans should have the right to defend ourselves against your misguided generalizations about SA and its people, this however gives us also the right to point out your own country (Nigeria) and its worsening tribal and terrorist issues which affects millions of ur people.

What gave you the impression that SA blacks aren't organized did you personally study SA and its governance issues and came to that foolish conclusion.

What gave you the impression that we are ignorant about other africans in our society can you honestly say +12m immigrants and 55m SA citizens are killing each other over resources on a daily bases. The xenophobic attacks which happened 5 years ago, is it still happening are south africans killing 66 africans from north of our borders on a daily bases and burning shacks can u show me. You talk about the cops yet u fail to tell the true story that there are over 150 people who died in police custody who are SA nationals and majority not even foreigners

You say we have poor border control can you honestly tell which country in the world can effectively control all its territory without any slip ups even UK and US fail in this regard on a daily bases and your beloved Nigeria is in a even worse situation when it comes to its 800km coastline and borders where weapons smuggling, drug trafficking, human trafficking, kidnappings of foreigners across borders, piracy and te mass theft of oil. Another thing you also forget that SA is larger then Nigeria by 25% and vast areas are unpopulated, while nigeria is considered to be over populated.


You talk about mass crime because the township I visit on a weekly bases there's only been 16 murders in the last 2 years according to homicides stats of 2011/2012, the only issue in that community is house braking. So how can that even acquitte to a worsening crime problem when even the national rate has decreased by 6% every year since 2009. Now even with these issues Nigeria in comparison has a 12,6% murder rate per 100000 of the population where over 18,800 people are murdered annually compared to SA's 15,600 annually even if this highter per capita due to SA's smaller population, it still paints a very bad picture of both SA and Nigeria respectively. And this is no excuse for SA's crime problems I must ad.

Another thing u talk about equality as if it doesn't take into account the huge disparities of low income people compared to the highest earners who are actually making these inequality reports look bleak. You make as if there's no ongoing efforts to address issues, because the world knows only education can breach the gap between rich and poor and SA is investing more then 10% of its annual budget on education and that's even double to that of Nigeria who has 3times SA's population.

Who cares if you'll never come to SA because there's nothing SA will gain from you because you can't live and work in your own country because you yourself see your own Sh*thole as inferior to your toilet cleaning job in London where your own people are rated to be one of the lowest earners per capita including the social evil your countryman exports all over the world.

You've been taking sh*t about SA for a longtime here on NL without end, why, are you harboring resentment against SA citizens for not actually allowing your Black *SS a Visa. You are a bitter BOY seeking attention even on other threads its just SA in ur pitiful posts just shut the F*CKUP because ur no better then the same people u accuse of xenophobia.

all4naija: The truth that you can not see the reason why the topic has changed so much, taking another direction, proves you can not read to comprehend people's comments with an open-mind. It's a point about what the reality on ground is, how the black people of that society feel about themselves and hatred toward other Africans.

Where did I say there is a single solution to borders monitoring? Nothing is more revealing than this your over-sensitizing of the whole issue, taking it out of the ordinary. My idea was very clear in my previous comments. I can't see anything so much wrong in saying that. Even if the immigrants are illegal that doesn't give your people the xenophobic inclination or wrong impression to go about attacking others on the streets.I can quickly point to two recent attacks on other Africans on your country streets in recent weeks alone. The taxi driver killed on duty and the other man dragged to his death who was tied to a police van(I posted the image of that on this forum). These are real evidences of what happen in your society on daily bases, which you refused to address as people. You are quickly to puff up and come with your high-headedness to the defence of your failures.

You visiting Township daily is not a prove that you visit all Township in SA. You are so full of excuses that you forget to take into consideration the detail of your claim. I beg to see the point you are trying to drive at with this your daily visit to the Township. Excepting you are telling me you shared you body into different parts visiting all the Townships in your country.Which is not possible for any human being. The fact is that the crimes in your townships can not be contested by any country in Africa without internal disturbances(as in war, terrorism,etc). Your people are among the most violent on the continent. I am so glad you admitted to the fact your country have more crimes per capital than Nigeria, according to the UNODC records, which just proved my points you tried to shelve-up in a covered box.

On the matter of inequality,which many of you are trying to crucify me of, is clearly not a record produced by me. You would have to take that up with the world bank for the reason why SA remains the world most unequal society on planet earth.

Nobody cares about me visiting your country and I am fine with that. I have made up my mind against such thing and would tell some of my friends who wish to visit to either desist from going there or take their security very important. The only reason I would have visited SA was Mandela,one of the true icons of the world. He's very old now and it is right I keep respecting him from afar as my mentor. Then, again he has done his best for that country. It now depends on the people who failed to see his suffering to rescue the nation from anarchy in the past.

I am not in London,guesser! In your mind all Nigerians live in London doing menial jobs! What an ignorant thing to think by you.

What shiits have I said about SA which aren't true? Aren't innocent migrants attack on the streets by your citizens and police? The truth most be told and actions taken to fight the good fight for the rights of African people. Didn't Mandela fight for equality in that country which liberated your black a$$ today that you can now type on the internet? The fight that gave you the freedom you never had.

If you think I harbour hatred for your country it is for the reason you failed to see where you are coming from while attacking your fellow Africans on the streets from a xenophobic inclinations.

Sorry SA visa would be the last thing I would like to see on my international passport.

Thank you!

all4naija: Spare me this your tongue-in-check complaint. As if I care.

Nigerians know very well their conditions. But, your people refused to accept theirs while persecuting innocent Africans of the citizens crimes. Do I have to fold my arms or applaud them for such inhumanity? NO! I am not that silly to watch without speaking about it in my little way, like the true icon(Mandela) would.

Andrewsa makes more sense than you because he's way civilized than you. So, it is not about being soft on me or on the matter but a rationality to address matter from a civilized perspective. I barely understand what you are complaining about when they exist in your society. There are news on television talking about them every day. I don't know what all these grinding of teeth and spits dropping from the sides of your mouth for.

Thank you!

snydergp:

Now tell why all the over exaggeration of SA citizens killing foreigners on a daily bases on the streets. was there any report of foreigners being killed in the last 10 days besides the one u read about of the cops dragging a cuffed man in the streets.

Xenophobia is It a daily thing on our streets I can also call your own countryman xenophobic because of there own treatment of ghanains in your country in the past. No country is immune from xenophobia go to China as a Nigerian you'll know what xenophobia really means.

Mandela was one man and there were millions who put there lives on the line for a better SA not just him even whites where abused because of there anti apartheid works in SA, Steve Biko, Chris Hani all of them suffered even worse faith then Mandela and were killed by apartheid. The people of SA not Mandela alone fought against apartheid we still live with the effects of apartheid still today.

On inequality we in SA know the extend of it and that's why there are many social policy's in place to make certain that no child who's parents are unemployed goes to bed without a meal.

You continuesly focus on a few things which goes wrong in SA as if there a war against foreigners yet you don't tell us about nigerias own war against foreigner. This morning there where reports on your own "xenophobic tendencies" when foreigners were killed in cold blood, for no reason now this shows the savagery where its become a lucrative trade in Naija to kidnap foreigners and to kill them without provocation. This is why I will never visit Nigeria.
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-10/kidnapped-foreign-nationals-killed-in-nigeria-diplomats-say.html

The conduct of your countryman is just as savage compared to what u accuse SA of.

snydergp:

So if SA citizens aren't sensitive about crime and we don't get affected by it What a dum response devoid of any logic, I can truly see that u don't wanna except the wrongs of your own country's problems you are truly a one eyed fool who only sees one side.

We in SA know full well of our societal issues and we working hard to solve them and we've put many structures in place to work towards eradication of these problems. Stop making as if SA citizens are doing nothing to deal with our problems because we who live here see the changes even if its at a slow pace its still better then nothing.

You continuesly say we persecute foreigners on every street corner, but u fail to state when your own nationals are involved in criminal activities they should not be treated any different just because they are foreigners, crime is crime no matter who commits it foreign or natives, just because a foreigner gets arrested for crime doesn't mean xenophobia we've arrested many people from all over the world right now there are hundreds of cases involving Chinese, Taiwanese and Vietmanese nationals and no one plays the xenophobic card yer when a nigerian or other africans gets arrested for his crimes its called xenophobia. Even recently 4 illegal Zim nationals where accused of killing 4 people on a farm and was also caught with the cell phones and property of the deceased yet they Zim nationals in SA called it xenophobia why, in another case a former world heavy weight boxing champion Kori Sanders where shot dead by 3 Zim nationals and a Mozambican for his cell phone. Now they will never do such crimes in there own country but when they arrested they cry foul why when even the evidence points in there direction.

Why should every other african immigrant be treated any different from any national. I live with a three Nigerian nationals in my neighborhood and we have good relations for the last 5 years they've been here even when one of there family members who came from Sao Palo last year got arrested for dealing in drugs we did not blame them because not nigerian is a criminal. But the opposite is true when you see south africans to you, we are all xenophobic, criminal and barbaric savagery when the majority of South Africans are peaceful and law abiding citizens with a minority doing crime. So tell me if 55m people kill 10-12m africans in SA on a daily bases how long would it be before they are all wiped out and what would the reaction be of the international community if such things are occurring daily.

There's been a love hate relationship between SA and particular Nigeria for some time now I don't really know the answer or true cause to this but please just stop painting everyone with the same brush just because u or a family had bad encounters with a few SA citizens because I can also attest to a few encounters of your own peoples conduct in SA and while I was on duty in DRC and Sudan respectively, yet I don't see every nigerian as the same but I see them as individuals.

all4naija: That is where you got it all wrong. This is where the shafts have to be separated from the seeds. Now if some Nigerians are committing crimes in your society it is right to go after them lawfully and let them face the law. Why would you label all Nigerians criminals and the cause of your own crimes? Why would you go about attacking innocent Nigerians on the streets? By attacking innocent people on the streets is crime of its own. This very idea your people tend to use as a means of fighting crimes only points to xenophobic tendency that caused the killings of innocent African immigrants in that country.

Seriously, this is the only time I am hearing about South Africans(blacks) are peaceful and law abiding citizens. At least from a South African. I am not saying there aren't no peaceful and law abiding citizens among blacks South Africans(including some whites like Oscar Prestariou - though never go about attacking innocent Africans on the streets) but the rate at which crimes are committed against African immigrants is alarming. I was a little surprised at many faces I saw during the Marakina massacres on how the people can be savagery and incline to commit murder. There is link in this forum supporting that fact.

If somebody come from Sao Paolo with drug being a Nigerian,using it as an excuse(which only heaven knows if you are telling the fact)and how that solve the attacks meted to innocent Africans on the streets is still a big challenge to me. I dare you point out how this really solve the many reports of Attacked innocent African migrants on your streets than trying to exonerated yourself and your people(what are used to committing crimes). What an excuse to look innocent indeed!

DictatorZAR:

What Are u still on this topic.

What is your real problem with SA

When has SA claimed to be the most civilized nation in africa, or does civilization mean the claims of being the most industrialized and best infrastructure equates to being civilized.

Talking abt snydergp's post on the Sao Palo drugs being trafficked into SA, tell me why do you always deny the involvement of countryman in criminal activities when the there are so many of your people languishing in jails for drug related crimes the world over infect there are more Nigerians death row in Asia then any other country. When I visited China a year ago I was on a Singapore airlines plane with four nigerians and the way they were treated in at the airport compared to other nationals was really shameful and even I was tempted to show my discontent for the treatment of my fellow african brothers. Now can you personally say this was xenophobic or just generalizations by ignorant Chinese officials.

The issue on of girl that was stabbed by her fellow classmate how can that be considered as a xenophobic attack, I really think you're not being genuine with your post and you deliberately sidestep issues that the @syndergp guy posted. I know he was very rude at times but he made a lot of valid points which you are trying to avoid with your response.

Why do you only have the right to criticize SA and why can't SA people respond likewise. Your society apart from the BH are facing crime situations similar to SA where only per capita stats currently in Nigeria's favor so even one death both in SA or Nigeria is one to many and the protection of innocent lives is a area in which both have failed grossly no matter how you All4naija and Snydergp try to twist and turn issues the facts on the ground remain the same.

Xenophobia is something South Africans are dealing with in the society and its has its origins rooted in its past regime where SA was mostly isolated from the rest of Africa, thus said it is equally important that immigrants who enter SA should abide by the same laws SA citizens and must not be treated any different when committing crime. In the current court hearing of the accused cops there has also been a revelation that the deceased faced 5 homicide charges stemming from a accident he was involved in a week prior to the unfortunate incident. Another point in this regard which you also deliberately chose not to highlight is the fact that community member in Daveyton(SA) has protested against the police and expressed there grievances even today, if this is a reflection of a xenophobic nation than its your baby so deal with it.

Lastly can you with confidence say that the amount of foreigners killed by both criminal and terror related activities makes Nigeria a saver place for foreigners to live and raise there children, because reports on the kidnappings are on the same level and "worse" from what you accuse SA of.

Your backyard isn't clean either so let agree on one point that Nigeria is just as bad on safety as SA currently and we both need to work on solutions.

all4naija: Seriously, you didn't read my previous comment with open mind. I can't decipher what you are on about with this your very glary statement. A well polished comment with half-baked truth to make realities as though not what they are.

There is nothing to my claims which are not pointing to what are affecting innocent lives in your society. To be industrialized comes with responsibility of civility. In a short term industrialization is associated with civilization and that seems to be missing in your communities. If it doesn't directly equate to civilized society it must indirectly be related to what it stands for. There is no industrialized nation without sense of civility. It is one of the characteristics of advanced or advancing societies, organizability. know that from this moment on.

Where did I deny a Nigerian from such illicit drug trade in my comment? I was alluding to the point if it was to be true then it shouldn't be used as a means to attack innocent Nigerians or other Africans on the streets. Another thing, those using the narcotics are as guilty as those supplying them. It is economics 101, clear case of law of demand and supply. So, both parties need to face the wrath of the laws than systematically attacking innocent people on the streets of crimes they know nothing of. That is a sign of xenophobia.

There is nothing showing that Nigerians where being attacked on the streets in Asia as they are attacked in SA. Your claim is nothing new and we are quite aware Nigerians are usually scrutinized very well at ports of entering in most countries but that is not an excuse for your people incessant attacks of the innocents. Keep beating around the bush to find something unrelated to spite at Nigerians. Indeed, your recriminations are self-revealing to the fact how you view other Africans in your country, which is xenophobic in nature.

How many times would I have to keep telling you BOKO HARAM is religious infiltration. This is something not peculiar to Nigeria alone. It is a global security issue that is beyond mere shallow outlook. American agents are stationed in many countries of the world for information leading to how to arrest the threat of terrorism. Even in many European countries there are secret agents collating information to foil barbaric plans around the world. You might be surprised these evil people are in your country without your government knowing anything about their presence. Not until the day they strike before their present will be made palpable to the public eyes.

There are more foreigners killed in your country than in Nigeria. That is a fact. The unreported Africans killed in that country far outnumbered foreigners which have been murdered in the existence of the nation called Nigeria.

There is recent crime wave in Nigeria for anger with the government that stemmed from inability to change the life of ordinary Nigerians. The current wave increase after the subsidy removal and as Nigerians no longer find opportunity to survive easily within the country. Still, the rate of crimes in your society is way higher. Nigerians don't go about attacking strangers on the streets. Indeed, there might be more foreigners in Nigeria than in South Africa.