babs787:

2. Luke 17 v 36
KJV: Two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken and the other left.

Omitted in RSV, NIV, GNB.

You accuser of the brethren . . . those verses are not omitted. If you read those versions you reference, all skip verse 36 and insert it in the footnotes.

Here is the reason - each book of the bible was transcribed from several original copies of manuscripts. Either by omission or so some copies have entire verses missing, some have a few words missing . . . what the above versions have done is to point out the fact that not all copies of the original manuscripts had those verses you claim are missing.

If you see a verse missing in any version of the bible just check the footnotes . . . you will invariably find them there.
BUT ALL versions of the bible contain that same EXACT quote in Mathew 24:40!

The message of salvation is simple.

Christ died to take away sins as prophesied by prophets of old
He resurrected,as prophesied
He will come again to judge as prophesied
And yes prior to his second return there would be a rapture of the Saints before the anti Christ (which would either come from the Muslim world or Russia) is revealed.

Everything about the nation of Israel,Islamic nations,Russia are clearly revealed in the Bible and the reason why Arabs are as violent as they are is also not a mystery.
The Bible made predictions of Kingdoms,their rise and fall way before they existed.
God is well ahead of you babs and your antics.

Tomorrow may be too late

@Davidylan

You accuser of the brethren . . . those verses are not omitted. If you read those versions you reference, all skip verse 36 and insert it in the footnotes.

Why are they inserted in footnotes, are they not important? Have you checked from all the versions to see that they are really inserted in the footnotes?

Here is the reason - each book of the bible was transcribed from several original copies of manuscripts.

Are you sure? Hope you are aware that the early bibles are having some verses missing but present in the later bible? Where do they get theirs from?

Either by omission or so some copies have entire verses missing, some have a few words missing . . . what the above versions have done is to point out the fact that not all copies of the original manuscripts had those verses you claim are missing.

Brother, keep nailing yourself. Why must important verses be missing in the inspired book of God? If the original copy is not having the verses, where did KJV  get its own from?

If you see a verse missing in any version of the bible just check the footnotes . . . you will invariably find them there.

Do you know the year the bible you are giving me was produced? Please are you aware that I have versions written by same authors but are having verses missing in early publication but present in later publication. Where did he see the verse when it was missing in the early edition.

BUT ALL versions of the bible contain that same EXACT quote in Mathew 24:40!  

What of Luke 17 v 36?

When you are able to sort it out, I will give you verses missing in early production but present in the later yet of the version.


@Nwando

Was he willing to die or not?

To shame babs and his father Belial here is the verse in different versions.

Available Translations and Versions for Mat 24:40

[b]KJV - Mat 24:40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
King James Version 1611, 1769


NKJV - Mat 24:40 - "Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson


NLT - Mat 24:40 - "Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left.
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust


NIV - Mat 24:40 - Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society


ESV - Mat 24:40 - “Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.

The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles


NASB - Mat 24:40 - "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation


RSV - Mat 24:40 - Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left.
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.


ASV - Mat 24:40 - Then shall two man be in the field; one is taken, and one is left:
American Standard Version 1901 Info


Young - Mat 24:40 - Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left;
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info


Darby - Mat 24:40 - Then two shall be in the field, one is taken and one is left;
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info


Webster - Mat 24:40 - Then will two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Noah Webster Version 1833 Info


HNV - Mat 24:40 - Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one will be left;
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info


Vulgate - Mat 24:40 - tunc duo erunt in agro unus adsumetur et unus relinquetur
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

[/b]

from the KJV


Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

@Nwando: Bawo ni? Your Yoruba is probably more fluent than mine. And by
the way, Kini Muhammad (as) se? My dear, now that you have all these
versions of Bible to prove your Rapture, tell me will it be fair to those who
died, when they were even better in Christian belief, than those are Raptured,
whereby they escape death? Is this your God a fair God, by not allowing everyone,
Good or Evil to experience death? According to you, even your God/man/son of God/
prophet, even experience death. Those who are raptured will have one over Jesus,
don't you think so?

About scourging, if you mean biting, the matter is this, men have been beating
their wives before Islam. Just like marrying more than one wife. Allah just gave
commandment, what to do about it. Since men (I would say that they are the
weak men), are going to do it anyhow. By the way not all wife beaters are are
Muslims. And not all Muslims are wife beaters. Just in the same way, not all Muslim
men practice pligeny. And not all those who practice pligeny are Muslims.

@Davidylan: The Sudanese are the mothers of Black people. Are you claiming
that you are not a 9ja? You can be a black man, son of Sudan, Nubia and still
be whatever religion you practice. In  the light as the ethnic Jew, but can also
practice whatever religion. Alot of them are Muslims.

And not all Sudanese Muslims are murderous. Am just quoting you. Say what
you mean.

David, if your Bible, the main fountain of Knowledge of your religion, Christianity,
having some major verses, as footnotes, eg the verse above about 'Rapture,'
in some versions, how can any rational individual bet his life on it, anyway?

You have some mondane verses in the main body of the same book that reduces
to a mere footnote, some of the essence of what Christianity is all about. Thats wierd.

Is it in the same manner that the RSV printed in '51, conveniently omitted
John 3;16, and not even as a footnote? Then miraculously appeared in '71!

from the NIV


Luk 17:33   Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Luk 17:34   I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

Luk 17:35   Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”[fn4]

Luk 17:36    
Luk 17:37   “Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”



Footnotes:
17:12 The Greek word was used for various diseases affecting the skin–not necessarily leprosy.
17:21 Or among
17:24 Some manuscripts do not have in his day.
17:35 Some manuscripts left. 36 Two men will be in the field; one

Does it affect the text in anyway?

@Nwando: Uh!
Christ died to take away sins as prophesied by prophets of old (Give me just one verse that can stand on its own.)

He resurrected,as prophesied (Give me one verse that can stand on its one)

He will come again to judge as prophesied (When he comes, he will pray behind the Al Mahdi, Salatul Magrib. My Allah Who is my Lord)

And yes prior to his second return there would be a rapture of the Saints before the anti Christ (which would either come from the Muslim world or Russia) is revealed. (About, the Al Dijjah, AntiChrist, you are not sure. So I will love to educate you: Never from the Muslims. He is a disbeliever. Muslims are believers, in One GOD and Jesus son of mary as His Prophet)

olabowale:

@Nwando: Bawo ni? Your Yoruba is probably more fluent than mine. And by
the way, Kini Muhammad (as) se? My dear, now that you have all these
versions of Bible to prove your Rapture, tell me will it be fair to those who
died, when they were even better in Christian belief, than those are Raptured,
whereby they escape death? Is this your God a fair God, by not allowing everyone,
Good or Evil to experience death? According to you, even your God/man/son of God/
prophet, even experience death. Those who are raptured will have one over Jesus,
don't you think so?

About scourging, if you mean biting, the matter is this, men have been beating
their wives before Islam. Just like marrying more than one wife. Allah just gave
commandment, what to do about it. Since men (I would say that they are the
weak men), are going to do it anyhow. By the way not all wife beaters are are
Muslims. And not all Muslims are wife beaters. Just in the same way, not all Muslim
men practice pligeny. And not all those who practice pligeny are Muslims.

@Davidylan: The Sudanese are the mothers of Black people. Are you claiming
that you are not a Nigeria? You can be a black man, son of Sudan, Nubia and still
be whatever religion you practice. In  the light as the ethnic Jew, but can also
practice whatever religion. Alot of them are Muslims.

And not all Sudanese Muslims are murderous. Am just quoting you. Say what
you mean.

David, if your Bible, the main fountain of Knowledge of your religion, Christianity,
having some major verses, as footnotes, eg the verse above about 'Rapture,'
in some versions, how can any rational individual bet his life on it, anyway?

You have some mondane verses in the main body of the same book that reduces
to a mere footnote, some of the essence of what Christianity is all about. Thats wierd.

Is it in the same manner that the RSV printed in '51, conveniently omitted
John 3;16, and not even as a footnote? Then miraculously appeared in '71!

Jesus is alive.
He died a physical death as a man but being God he arose and is alive today
Rapture is not about escaping death.
It is about the end of times and the plan of God and when that time comes of course some people will still be alive
The world will not all die off before Christ.
In Christianity physical death is not a bad thing at all.
When a Christian dies,they go to a better place where there are no sicknesses,no sins,no ills.

[b]Available Translations and Versions for Phl 1:21
KJV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain.
King James Version 1611, 1769


NKJV - Phl 1:21 - For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson


NLT - Phl 1:21 - For to me, living is for Christ, and dying is even better.
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust


NIV - Phl 1:21 - For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society


ESV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles


NASB - Phl 1:21 - For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation


RSV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.


ASV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
American Standard Version 1901 Info


Young - Phl 1:21 - for to me to live [is] Christ, and to die gain.
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info


Darby - Phl 1:21 - For for me to live [is] Christ, and to die gain;
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info


Webster - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain.
Noah Webster Version 1833 Info


HNV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live is Messiah, and to die is gain.
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info


Vulgate - Phl 1:21 - mihi enim vivere Christus est et mori lucrum
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info
[/b]

@Nwando: Uh!
Christ died to take away sins as prophesied by prophets of old (Give me just one verse that can stand on its own.)

He resurrected,as prophesied (Give me one verse that can stand on its one)

He will come again to judge as prophesied (When he comes, he will pray behind the Al Mahdi, Salatul Magrib. My Allah Who is my Lord)

And yes prior to his second return there would be a rapture of the Saints before the anti Christ (which would either come from the Muslim world or Russia) is revealed. (About, the Al Dijjah, AntiChrist, you are not sure. So I will love to educate you: Never from the Muslims. He is a disbeliever. Muslims are believers, in One GOD and Jesus son of mary as His Prophet)

olabowale:

@Nwando: Uh!
Christ died to take away sins as prophesied by prophets of old (Give me just one verse that can stand on its own.)
He resurrected,as prophesied (Give me one verse that can stand on its one)

He will come again to judge as prophesied (When he comes, he will pray behind the Al Mahdi, Salatul Magrib. My Allah Who is my Lord)

And yes prior to his second return there would be a rapture of the Saints before the anti Christ (which would either come from the Muslim world or Russia) is revealed. (About, the Al Dijjah, AntiChrist, you are not sure. So I will love to educate you: Never from the Muslims. He is a disbeliever. Muslims are believers, in One GOD and Jesus son of mary as His Prophet)

The Bible says we compare scripture with scripture.
No single verse of the Bible can be a doctrine of it's own.
but I pray God opens your eyes.


[b]Isa 53:3   He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Isa 53:4   Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.

Isa 53:5   But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:6   All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:7   He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.

Isa 53:8   He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. [/b]

The above verse has been responsible for bringing thousands of Jews to accept Christ as saviour because the see he fulfilled all that prophecy hunderds of years prior to his birth.
God is good.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: The Sudanese are the mothers of Black people.

No sir, the cradle of Africa is from Egypt and the nile valley. Most of the black people from Libya and Sudan are migrants from ancient communities that once lived along the nile.

olabowale:

And not all Sudanese Muslims are murderous. Am just quoting you. Say what
you mean.

I mean exactly what i say, yes not all muslims are murderous but where are the condemnations of those who claim NOT to be murderers? Why are they perpetually silent, only speaking when islam has been "insulted"?

olabowale:

David, if your Bible, the main fountain of Knowledge of your religion, Christianity,
having some major verses, as footnotes, eg the verse above about 'Rapture,'
in some versions, how can any rational individual bet his life on it, anyway?

that is why we have the original manuscripts sir. If you wish you can purchase the entire bible translated from the dead sea scrolls on Amazon, it costs less than $70!
You know why i can bet my life on the bible even though that verse in Luke only appears in the footnotes of SOME versions of the bible? Because that same exact statement was recorded TWICE! The record in Mathew is preserved in ALL versions of the bible!

olabowale:

You have some mondane verses in the main body of the same book that reduces
to a mere footnote, some of the essence of what Christianity is all about. Thats wierd.

are you trying to weep on my behalf? Sir focus on finding the "prophets" from the lineage of Ishmael, didnt you claim the bible was corrupt anyway?
Most of the essence of what christianity is about is recorded severally in many portions of the bible so that even if one were lost we can always refer back to another.

Isnt it more weird that the shaitan inspired some verses in your quran? Dont you find it weird that you have abrogated verses in your quran? Isnt it weird that you are still debating which is false or genuine hadith even today?
And you come here telling me about weird . . .

olabowale:

Is it in the same manner that the RSV printed in '51, conveniently omitted
John 3;16, and not even as a footnote? Then miraculously appeared in '71!

ask the publishers that question. Majority of christians do not read RSV anyway.
Just like we have untrustworthy publishers of textbooks so do we have such as bible publishers. I rather read KJV, it has stood the test of time!

Whether RSV ommitted John 3:16 is nothing to cry about, the fact that it exists in the original manuscripts is enough for me. I can choose to publish my own version of the bible today and omit the entire books of Solomon . . . does that make the entire bible corrupt?

There are bibles that contain just the OT or the NT, does that mean that we must treat every single bible with disdain?

The way you people reason and draw conclusions is apalling!

@Nwando:

Jesus is alive. (You are not definate about it. However we are in agreement that he was raised up, by his Lord. After that its anybody's guess)

He died a physical death as a man but being God he arose and is alive today (If his Lord raised him up, he can never be God, the Lord who raised him up)

Rapture is not about escaping death. (What is it then? Is the raptured going to die as in Physical death?)

It is about the end of times and the plan of God and when that time comes of course some people will still be alive (If any one from those who are alive do not experience death, then you are proving my point; Your God may not be fair and just. Every human being must go through the same experience of birth and death. There is no exception)

The world will not all die off before Christ. (So it the world will not die off, where is judgement and how about Paradise and Hell? They will not exist? No punishment for, say Adolph Hitler, etc?)

In Christianity physical death is not a bad thing at all. (All muslims are expecting it. We are not rapture compartible)

When a Christian dies,they go to a better place where there are no sicknesses,no sins,no ills. (Darling, Hitler, Mussollini, and all the killers in Christianity will be in this place too? There is no payment fro their evil deeds, no accounting?)

Available Translations and Versions for Phl 1:21
KJV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain. (You are quoting letters. After Jesus was no more on the stage. This does not cut it)

King James Version 1611, 1769 (Sell me the Brooklyn Bridge, instead)

@Davidylan:Ask those people, who know about Sudan and Egypt. They will tell you> Have you ever heard the term Lower and Upper Egypt?)

alhaji dont make this about Sudan or Egypt . . . focus on the main issues. You people have a penchant for suddenly coming up with irrelevancies anytime you run out of Zakir Naik's lies.

@Davidylan: I will come back to Nwando, later on. The evening prayer is approaching.

Isnt it more weird that the shaitan inspired some verses in your quran? Quote me a verseand we can discuss it)

Dont you find it weird that you have abrogated verses in your quran? (Abrogation means it is replaced by something current for the time. For example, permission to talk is abrogated by commandment to keep sitent in salah. Thats clear enough.)

Isnt it weird that you are still debating which is false or genuine hadith even today? (The debate simply points out to you the honesty and transparency of Islam methodology of of getting to the truth)

And you come here telling me about weird . . . (Yes, David. Why, because I want you to open your eyes, your inner eyes, I mean. Simply because because I want whats best for you. I want success for everyone, period)


I want us to focus on the main toPic. Leave Sudan and Egypt there in Africa. And by the way, the Muslim Student organization, of England are raising 'cane' on the matter of the Sudanese decision. You need to hear all opinions before assumptions.

Olabowole stop being deceptive and putting words were they were not.
I had on several ocassions told you the Bibles standard of holiness and how men would be judged and you ask of Musollini and Hitler?
How about Muhammad,he will be judged too believe it or not!

Not all humans will die according to the Bible.
The scriptures says Jesus will come unexpectedly,not when every human is dead.
When he comes you and I may or may not be alive but certainly at that time some people will be living and the righteous anmongst them will not taste death.
That is the Bible.
The ones that are already dead will rise up and if found guilty will die a second death this time in hell fire but if found righteous will rule with Christ.

Now have you heard of Enoch in the old testament,he did not die but was taken up to heaven.

Did you hear of Elijah,he was also taken up to heaven.
I wonder how you could believe that the Koranic Jesus was not crucified but was taken up and here you are arguing about the same thing.
How funny.

olabowale:

If any one from those who are alive do not experience death, then you are proving my point; Your God may not be fair and just. Every human being must go through the same experience of birth and death. There is no exception

Every human being will go through the death experience . . . however you are only looking at it from a physical angle. Separation from God is the same as spiritual death.
I will give you an example: Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

But wait . . . Adam and Eve did not "die" that very day they ate the fruit, infact they lived long enough to bear children. So was God lying? No because that day they died a spiritual death - separation from the garden which symbolised God's presence.

olabowale:

The world will not all die off before Christ. (So it the world will not die off, where is judgement and how about Paradise and Hell? They will not exist? No punishment for, say Adolph Hitler, etc?)

physical death is not the only route to paradise and hell. Elijah and Enoch did not see death.

olabowale:

Darling, Hitler, Mussollini, and all the killers in Christianity will be in this place too? There is no payment fro their evil deeds, no accounting?

Only islamic hypocrites refer to hitler as christians SO AS TO USE them as a ready made excuse for their muslim murderers.
The bible is clear - Thou shalt not kill and the soul that sinneth IT SHALL DIE!
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

olabowale:

Available Translations and Versions for Phl 1:21
KJV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain. (You are quoting letters. After Jesus was no more on the stage. This does not cut it)

Jesus is no longer here in the flesh but He is very much here in the form of the Holy Spirit. It is understandable that Paul remains a thorn in the flesh of those who love darkness more than light for their deeds are evil.

20:3   and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[fn1] thousand years.

Rev 20:5   But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6   Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Rev 20:7   Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison

Rev 20:8   and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9   They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Rev 20:10   The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[fn2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 20:11   Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12   And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[fn3] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Rev 20:13   The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Rev 20:14   Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[fn4]

Rev 20:15   And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Footnotes:
20:4 M-Text reads the.
20:10 NU-Text and M-Text add also.
20:12 NU-Text and M-Text read the throne.
20:14 NU-Text and M-Text add the lake of fire.

But david you write about everything, except disproving the Oneness of God!
Do you believe that there is One indivisible God? Yes or no? Is God more than
One?

olabowale:

Isnt it more weird that the shaitan inspired some verses in your quran? Quote me a verse and we can discuss it)

the mere fact that shaitan-inspired verses are in the quran is enough for me not to believe anything in it. How can light dwell together with darkness?

olabowale:

Dont you find it weird that you have abrogated verses in your quran? (Abrogation means it is replaced by something current for the time. For example, permission to talk is abrogated by commandment to keep sitent in salah. Thats clear enough.)

How can allah be the begining and the end when he needs to be replacing his words with to make it "current" with time?

olabowale:

Isnt it weird that you are still debating which is false or genuine hadith even today? (The debate simply points out to you the honesty and transparency of Islam methodology of of getting to the truth)

and you have a problem with verses in footnotes? No sir, the debate simply points to the confusion that is the quran. That you are still debating which words of "god" are genuine or not is an indication that you do not truly know your god at all.

olabowale:

And you come here telling me about weird . . . (Yes, David. Why, because I want you to open your eyes, your inner eyes, I mean. Simply because because I want whats best for you. I want success for everyone, period)

You cant tell me to open my eyes when yours are firmly shut in denial.

olabowale:

But david you write about everything, except disproving the Oneness of God!
Do you believe that there is One indivisible God? Yes or no? Is God more than
One?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

In answer to your "question" - [size=13pt]YES there is ONE GOD.[/size]

The only problem here is you dont know Him . . . if you did you wont think He was three.

@Nwando: Mo ni ki nse area boy fun e ni. lol. (I just learnt about its defination this evening.

The Bible says we compare scripture with scripture. (It seems as if scripture by your defination is verse being compared to another verse. Okay)

No single verse of the Bible can be a doctrine of it's own. (If this is so, we must never accept the verse which says Jesus rose, or son of God or God. If we find any group of verses that are overwhelmingly opposing any of these notions above, we have to take them over it. Considering majority rule/carry the vote. lol)

but I pray God opens your eyes. (I say the same prayer for you. Not just your physical eyes, but whats inside your chest. Amiin)


Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. (You are describing Muhammad,. Nothing you said described Jesus exclusively. If Moses was a prophet after Isiah, it would also fit him.)

Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted. (Read the last verses of Chapter 9 of the Qur'an)

Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed. (Battle of Uhud, Muhammad was wounded)

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. (Muhammad was sent as a Messenger and a Mercy to all mankind)

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth. (Again, during the early days of Islam, in maakka, the Quraish did expel the hashimite tribe. Read the history of Muhammad)

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken. (This describes Muhammad in many instances, before Hijra, in the many battles the Muslims fought)

The above verse has been responsible for bringing thousands of Jews to accept Christ as saviour because the see he fulfilled all that prophecy hunderds of years prior to his birth. (And Jews and Gentile are entring Islam in drove, right here in the west. Especially, God's Own Country)

God is good. (I Concur with you. However God rewards good and punishes evil)

Alhaji, Mohammed again in the very book you claim is corrupt and has missing verses? How can this be so? What about the lost torah and injil?

olabowale:

Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed. (Battle of Uhud, Muhammad was wounded)

Did Mohammed bear your healing by the stripes he recieved in the battle of Uhud? Did mohammed EVER HEAL anyone?

olabowale:

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. (Muhammad was sent as a Messenger and a Mercy to all mankind)

Did allah put the sins of all mankind on mohammed? How did he bear these sins? Can mohammed forgive ur sins?

@Davidylan:

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:23:22 PM
If any one from those who are alive do not experience death, then you are proving my point; Your God may not be fair and just. Every human being must go through the same experience of birth and death. There is no exception

Every human being will go through the death experience . . . however you are only looking at it from a physical angle. Separation from God is the same as spiritual death. (Yes and we continue to tell you, you ain't getting it! Having 3 godheads in a "One' God, especially when one of them suffered dead, yet you refuse to accept that the death of one deminishes the paower of the 2 parts that remained. Even just a notch. Therefore, i will have to accept that they are separate godhead, independent of one another! If this is the case, you have therefore three Gods. Your case is like the servant that has three masters, each one of them sending him on an errant, at the same time. Each errant, is opposing the other 2. Will this servant have a peace of mind as he tries to run the errand of one, he will be in jeopardy of the remaining 2)

I will give you an example: Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. (But Adam did not die. God also forgave him. If everyone is holy and there is no need to seek forgiveness from God, God will creat those who will make mistakes and seek forgiveness. Your problem is this, you forgot that the grand plan of God is for Adam and his progeny to dwell on earth. Yet they were created in paradise. There must be a way to get them to the earth. Hence the failure to follow the Instruction about the tree)

But wait . . . Adam and Eve did not "die" that very day they ate the fruit, infact they lived long enough to bear children. So was God lying? No because that day they died a spiritual death - separation from the garden which symbolised God's presence. (They still had God in their life. They seek forgiveness and God accepted their supplication. Infact they were the firts to seek forgiveness. While the devil is the first to sin)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:23:22 PM
The world will not all die off before Christ. (So it the world will not die off, where is judgement and how about Paradise and Hell? They will not exist? No punishment for, say Adolph Hitler, etc?)


physical death is not the only route to paradise and hell. Elijah and Enoch did not see death. (Yet they must die before the day of Judgement. This is hatman decree)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:23:22 PM
Darling, Hitler, Mussollini, and all the killers in Christianity will be in this place too? There is no payment fro their evil deeds, no accounting?


Only islamic hypocrites refer to hitler as christians SO AS TO USE them as a ready made excuse for their muslim murderers. (Oh, excuse me. Hitler was a Muslim. But the Vatican and other Church leaders in Vaderland/Germany and Austria, who supported him were overwhelmingly not Muslims. Now we settle the case. lol)

The bible is clear - Thou shalt not kill and the soul that sinneth IT SHALL DIE! (So what happens to all the Christians who have taken a soul? From your verse here, it does not matter whether it was for a just or unjust cause.)

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (So when people in this second are in it, do they feel the pain?)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:23:22 PM
Available Translations and Versions for Phl 1:21
KJV - Phl 1:21 - For to me to live [is] Christ, and to die [is] gain. (You are quoting letters. After Jesus was no more on the stage. This does not cut it)


Jesus is no longer here in the flesh but He is very much here in the form of the Holy Spirit. It is understandable that Paul remains a thorn in the flesh of those who love darkness more than light for their deeds are evil. (Alhamdulillah. I do not do big time evils. However being the best friend of Paul will not guarantee you mercy of God. Infact, you need to concentrate on yourself and leave Paul to the decision of God Almighty on him)


20:3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. (Does this make anysence to you? Considering that there was never a time in the history of man that there was no influence of the evil one, on mankind, in one form or the other.)

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[fn1] thousand years. (Uh! Wierd)

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (How many resurrection are there, in just one live? Cats have 9 lives, it is a cliche. Will it then be resurrected how many times?)

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (After death and first and second resurrections, why the need for priests? What happens after the end of the 1000 year reign? If you don't know just say so)

Rev 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison (When satan, is released what happens? A new pressure cooker as satan is now free to do whatever. Or is his nature now changed that he becomes good? Whatever your answer, you will lose this argument with me. I am setting you up for a big time fall)

Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. (Okay)

Rev 20:9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. (Okay)

Rev 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[fn2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Okay)

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. (Umm)
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[fn3] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (The speaker, was he also judged or not judged?)

Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Umm)

Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[fn4] (So many time for an entity to die)

Rev 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (In all, the rev verses above, etc, Jesus had to leave the earth to have this sent down? He could not reveal these while he was alive? Don't you see that from this alone, Jesus did serve as all that ends all. Even from the NT, we see that other new things were being brought in into what Jesus left, by people who are not his apostles! Yet you could not accept Qur'an, coming from Allah which confirmed the pure messages of Jesus/ Moses, etc, of the Oneness of God?)

Footnotes:
20:4 M-Text reads the.
20:10 NU-Text and M-Text add also.
20:12 NU-Text and M-Text read the throne.
20:14 NU-Text and M-Text add the lake of fire.



But david you write about everything, except disproving the Oneness of God!
Do you believe that there is One indivisible God? Yes or no? Is God more than
One?


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:42:38 PM
Isnt it more weird that the shaitan inspired some verses in your quran? Quote me a verse and we can discuss it)


the mere fact that shaitan-inspired verses are in the quran is enough for me not to believe anything in it. How can light dwell together with darkness? (Only physically and spiritually deaf and blind person, with dead heart, in his/her body will say that Muslims associate with Shaitan. In the Qur'an, Allah says, And when you are beginning the recitation, seek refuge in Allah from the acursed Shaitan. Acursed in that he is deprived of all mercy from God. Muslims seek refuge in God, all the time from the acursed Shaitan. How then is there a verse from him in the Qur'an? I ask you to quote it, you just can not. But unashamely continued your dishonesty. It does not work, since you can prove or use logic to make me even consider the idea)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:42:38 PM
Dont you find it weird that you have abrogated verses in your quran? (Abrogation means it is replaced by something current for the time. For example, permission to talk is abrogated by commandment to keep sitent in salah. Thats clear enough.)


How can allah be the begining and the end when he needs to be replacing his words with to make it "current" with time? (You are naive. Let me help you. Allah say sto Muhammad, 'Be patient with the Muslim, if you are not they may get away from you. You wean a person from doing evil, like adultery, or drinking as you wean a child, from breast feeding to bottle, and then from bottle to solid food, gradually. It never happen in one shot. Thats what abrogation means)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:42:38 PM
Isnt it weird that you are still debating which is false or genuine hadith even today? (The debate simply points out to you the honesty and transparency of Islam methodology of of getting to the truth)


and you have a problem with verses in footnotes? No sir, the debate simply points to the confusion that is the quran. That you are still debating which words of "god" are genuine or not is an indication that you do not truly know your god at all. (Hadith is the saying and Sunnah is what Muhammad did or permits. Qur'an, unlike the Bible, is fully complete and it is unchanging. You have no significant knowledge of Islam to argue, from all that you just said)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:42:38 PM
And you come here telling me about weird . . . (Yes, David. Why, because I want you to open your eyes, your inner eyes, I mean. Simply because because I want whats best for you. I want success for everyone, period)


You can't tell me to open my eyes when yours are firmly shut in denial. (Denying what? I said there is only One Supreme God. You said there are three parts to Him, at best, if not three Gods. Who is the one that had lack of insight and vision, of the true God Almight? I said mine is everlasting. You said, partially died at one time. I said mine is separate from His creation. You said yours came down as a man. I said mine is all knowing. You said yours had to come down to learn about the quality of his creation to make better judgement. David I could go on and on.)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 11:03:12 PM
But david you write about everything, except disproving the Oneness of God!
Do you believe that there is One indivisible God? Yes or no? Is God more than
One?


1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (You are quoting Timothy, a document written after Jesus was lifted up. My God. This means nothing to any argument. Rather it shows that the Bible has, What seems to be coming from God, then from Angels, then from prophets and then from ordinary people. Four different entities! Surprisingly, you hang of of that on God! How is God His Angels, or His prophets or even the ordinary people?)

In answer to your "question" - YES there is ONE GOD. (This I agree with you)

@Davidylan: There is your answer below .

Alhaji, Muhammad again in the very book you claim is corrupt and has missing verses? How can this be so? What about the lost torah and injil? (Okay, your Injiil is not totally lost. But is watered down. Its like if you make a good tasty cool aid. Then you pour a full glass for yourself. Then you have this friend who does not like cool aid but just the color. So he pour himself a tall glass of cold water. But he leaves enough for you to just pour some cool aid to give it a very light cool aid color. But sure there will not be any noticeable cool aid taste. This is your water down Bible/Torah?injiil. You may as well consider it lost.) How about them apples? By the way david, its the time to pick apple. And you are in upstate. You go for it in any nearby orchard?

Did Muhammad bear your healing by the stripes he recieved in the battle of Uhud? Did mohammed EVER HEAL anyone? (By Allah, the Key of Paradise is in his hand. And before then, he will intersede, for and on behalf of all Believers. There is an hadith on it. Ask Nwando to locate for you. lol)


Did allah put the sins of all mankind on mohammed? How did he bear these sins? Can mohammed forgive your sins? (No bearer of Burden shall bear the Buurden of another soul. However, through Muhammad, Allah provide a Blue Print of salvation for all Mankinds. Not Just the Jews/Children of Israel)

Your constant repeating of the same thing over and over again is a sign that you really dont know what you are talking about.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: There is your answer below .

Okay, your Injiil is not totally lost. But is watered down.

Stop talking about our "corrupt" injil. [size=14pt]Where is the one allah claimed to have sent down and confirmed?[/size] Dont you think you'd be better off finding that one first?

olabowale:

Did Muhammad bear your healing by the stripes he recieved in the battle of Uhud? Did mohammed EVER HEAL anyone? (By Allah, the Key of Paradise is in his hand. And before then, he will intersede, for and on behalf of all Believers. There is an hadith on it. Ask Nwando to locate for you. lol)

I asked a straightforward question - [size=14pt]did mohammed EVER heal anyone?[/size] Dont try dancing around it with your "he will intercede" spin, WHEN and WHERE will he intercede? So if you have a headache now you cant call on his name and recieve healing? \
How many of his colleagues did he heal of their wounds during their many battles? whom did he raise from the dead?

olabowale:

Did allah put the sins of all mankind on mohammed? How did he bear these sins? Can mohammed forgive your sins? (No bearer of Burden shall bear the Buurden of another soul. However, through Muhammad, Allah provide a Blue Print of salvation for all Mankinds. Not Just the Jews/Children of Israel)

Just HOW did allah provide a blue print for salvation in mohammed? What is this blue-print? How do muslims get saved through mohammed and WHAT is the proof of this salvation?

Olabowole do you have ADHD?
It's impossible for you to focus on one topic.
You keep jumping around and saying very little.

Focus and stop acting confused?

lol @ Nwando, i dont really blame him. Like his fellow muslims they dont really know anything besides "allah is one god and mohammed is his messenger", every other thing is just grasping desperately at straws. They know they are in a sinking boat, they are just too blind to admit it.

@Davidylan:
Your constant repeating of the same thing over and over again is a sign that you really don't know what you are talking about.(You failed in taking your own advise)

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:48:18 AM
@Davidylan: There is your answer below .
Okay, your Injiil is not totally lost. But is watered down.

Stop talking about our "corrupt" injil. Where is the one allah claimed to have sent down and confirmed? Dont you think you'd be better off finding that one first? (I will stop taliking about your 'curropt Injiil,' the moment you stop asking the Question. You believe in the Injiil, it is your responsibility to complain to your Church leaders that the Muslims say your read dilluted Bible. SEe what they will day. lol)

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:48:18 AM
Did Muhammad bear your healing by the stripes he recieved in the battle of Uhud? Did mohammed EVER HEAL anyone? (By Allah, the Key of Paradise is in his hand. And before then, he will intersede, for and on behalf of all Believers. There is an hadith on it. Ask Nwando to locate for you. lol)

I asked a straightforward question - did mohammed EVER heal anyone? Dont try dancing around it with your "he will intercede" spin, WHEN and WHERE will he intercede? So if you have a headache now you can't call on his name and recieve healing? \(Read the tafsir of Suratul Fatiha. The first chapter of the Qur'an. Even the Companions used it to heal a tribal Chief. Other parts of the Qur'an are used to heal. Ayatul Qursi, is a great examole. Infact the whole of Qur'an is healing document)

How many of his colleagues did he heal of their wounds during their many battles? whom did he raise from the dead? (I have addressed most of your concerns. Yes Muhammad did not have to raise anyone from dead. However, even a stump of try that he used to lean on began to weep, when he did not lean on it any more. He had to talk to the dead try that it can be brought back alive or be buried as a believer. The tree stump wanted to be buried as a believer, so they did)


Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:48:18 AM
Did allah put the sins of all mankind on mohammed? How did he bear these sins? Can mohammed forgive your sins? (No bearer of Burden shall bear the Buurden of another soul. However, through Muhammad, Allah provide a Blue Print of salvation for all Mankinds. Not Just the Jews/Children of Israel)


Just HOW did allah provide a blue print for salvation in mohammed? What is this blue-print? How do muslims get saved through mohammed and WHAT is the proof of this salvation? (The Qur'an is the BluePrint. And it extends till the end of time, from its revelation. We are all under Muhammad's Prophethood. You do not believe him, but you took the old prophet Jesus as God! Read many surah of the Qur'an. For example, read surah Kahf or the cave. Towards the end of it, you will see where the Believers are given the news of paradise and the disbelievers, Jews, Christians and others are given the bad nwes of hellfire. Now where do you want to end up?)

Olabowole do you have ADHD? (No. Olabowale does not have ADHD. You are a real comedian. Yes you heard me. lol)
It's impossible for you to focus on one topic. (The topic is One God, aint it? It is you who is dragging it out of place. How do you justify a God, who is a son and a prophet and a man, all at the same time? When you were told of wrong your idea is, you claim that ordinary people can understand it. Which one is clear and direct, One God that is supreme or the God who is man and son and prophet, all in one shot?)

You keep jumping around and saying very little. (You are not following me. You tend to be stuck in neutral. How do you figure, you can present a winning argument, when you can quote a verse that can stand on its own merit. Infact, you are proving to us can describe himself, in a clearand precise statement. So you borrow, from Paul and you want me to fall for the harlem shuffle?)

Focus and stop acting confused? (How am I acting confused? I have One God. You have 3 godhead, that you are trying so hard to pass up for One God. Who is confused here?)


lol @ Nwando, i don't really blame him. Like his fellow muslims they don't really know anything besides "allah is one god and mohammed is his messenger", every other thing is just grasping desperately at straws. They know they are in a sinking boat, they are just too blind to admit it. (Allah is enough. Grasping for straws, is the fact that you are trying to tell us that 3 is 1! Grasping for straws is that you are denying that your book, is watered down (See David, I controlled myself not to say 'lost'). You have a book that has a quadzillion versions and editions and revisons,etc. The Catholic you copied it from, less the 7 or so books, you now claim them to be pagans? See any resemblance of paganism, already? A daughter can say mom is ugly, especially when resemble that mother. She had just confirmed that she is ugly as well!)

@Nwando: What else is wrong with me, dear? I am sure you will come up with something later. Did you like my explanation fetal development yesterday?

alhaji, do us all a favor. . . we notice that when muslims want to be dishonest and avoid having their preposterous theories taken apart they couch them in long meaningless tomes!

Pls make your responses concise and short.

@Davidylan: First that I know that your hatred emanated from 911, i have zero interest
in discussing with you. Good night. That applies to you too, Nwando.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: First that I know that your hatred emanated from 911, i have zero interest
in discussing with you. Good night. That applies to you too, Nwando.

alright sir.
as long you still get me 24 karat gold necklace from Dubai.
That's all I need from you