Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid - Religion (7) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid (9280 Views)
Who Should Christians Avoid? / The Issue Of Witches/wizards/and Emere That You Did Not Know About / On The Issue Of Morality: Bestiality [for Athiests And Freethinkers] (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 4:15am On Dec 01, 2007 |
olabowale: lol what's knew? Its the same decietful attempt by muslims to put on the garb of victims to excuse their cult of death. Seriously you werent saying anything of interest, the only reason i put up with replying u is simply because i cant sit by and watch you trying desperately to force fit mohamadu into the bible while using the very same tongue to declare the bible corrupt. You cant just get away with being dishonest. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by babs787(m): 3:05pm On Dec 01, 2007 |
@Nwando The interesting thing about me is that I love reeling out verses from your bible to teach you because I was like you and very conversant with the bible. Besides, its what you belive in. So let me quickly attend to your post.
You have not been able to do that but you only further exposed the fraud therein in your bible. Available Translations and Versions for Mat 24:40 If you have been following the thread, you would read that I told him that there is a verse on rapture but your brother ignorantly reeled out Mathew 24 v 40 for me but I was trying to ask him why Luke 17 v 36 is absent in some versions but present in KJV. Please make sure you read any thread very well before responding. Now I will deal with your other posts. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by babs787(m): 3:22pm On Dec 01, 2007 |
@Nwando Let me combine your two posts. from the KJV Good, I am very much aware that the verses exist in KJV. My question was on other versions. Read my post for better understanding. Let me have the verse in other versions.
Did you read my question? I asked you why verse 17 v 36 is missing but all you could do was buttressed my claim that its missing. Common, why is the verse missing? You may give me RSV and GNB as well. The missing verse shows the corruption of the bible. Footnotes: Keep nailing yourself and why are some manuscripts leaving verse 36 in the inspired word of God.
It shows that its corrupt. Now as from now henceforth, when you are giving me any verse from the bible, let me know the year the version was produced because some earlier publication are omitting some verses while the latest publications are inputting same. Let me further expose you: Get RSV published in 1952 and you will notice that Mark 16 v 19, Luke 24 v 15 and John 8 v 1-10 ARE MISSING WHILE THE SAME VERSES WERE RESTORED IN THE NEXT PUBLICATION OF 1971 after great controversy. These verses talk about the ascension of Jesus and the women who were taken in adultery. The Living Bible's commentators stated at its footnote p. 79 that most ancient manuscripts omit John 7 v 53-8, 1 - 11. So please where are the latest publications getting their own verses from? Does the above not justify the the claim that the Gospel is corrupt, distorted and not in its original state? The clock is ticking. Accept Islam today, tomorrow may be too late. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Lakpenne: 12:19am On Dec 02, 2007 |
I tried not to response but Davidylan, you surprised me. First, let me thank babs for pointing out all the versions of the Bible that have different numbers of book and things missen from one and not in the other. But, that is not my concern here. One of the keys to debate is not just knowing the topic (and I plead ignorance when I do not know) but also knowing how to debate and how to think. Clearly david knows some of this (as he shows you cannot really trash the Bible and then use it as support, unless its to show a point that would otherwise not even need the Bible to be made). But I was surprised by the blunders in this post as it was not a thinking man's post: David said about olabowale: Your constant repeating of the same thing over and over again is a sign that you really don't know what you are talking about. (I'll leave that one between the two of you) Stop talking about our "corrupt" injil. Where is the one allah claimed to have sent down and confirmed? Dont you think you'd be better off finding that one first? LOL. Well, the one Allah sent down is the one Christians destroyed by not preyou serving it in its orignal language and the vestiges of which you have in your hand today. Allah said he gave the Torah and we see the Torah today as the books of the Jews. He gave the Injil to Isa and what's left of it is what Christians claim to be the "true" word of God. I asked a straightforward question - did mohammed EVER heal anyone? Dont try dancing around it with your "he will intercede" spin, WHEN and WHERE will he intercede? So if you have a headache now you can't call on his name and recieve healing? \ How many of his colleagues did he heal of their wounds during their many battles? whom did he raise from the dead? LOL again. And did Moses heal someone, or David or Noah or Abraham, etc, etc. Just because they did not heal anyone, are they then considered not a Prophet. And just because you healed someone, so what? Each Prophet had his own thing. The Pharoahs; people were great with magic and Moses came with truth to destriy their magic as what he was able to do with his stick was not magic. The jews were great with medicine and Jesus came with bigger truth as what he was able to do was beyond medical expertise such as cure the blind and raise the dead. The Arabs were master poets an the Prophet was given the Quran which was far and beyond anything they could muster in poetry. Does the fact that Jesus healed people make him God? That logic does not follow. Just HOW did allah provide a blue print for salvation in mohammed? What is this blue-print? How do muslims get saved through mohammed and WHAT is the proof of this salvation? [b]LOL, a third time. How did Jews get saved for that matter. Do all the Jews who died before Jesus go to hell because they never accepted him as lord? I hope not cause that would be done right unfair. So, even if one believes that taking Jesus as lord is the blueprint for salvation now, it must be agreed that before Jesus there must have been a different blueprint. I submit to you that the blueprint pre the so called "take Jesus as your lord and savior" blueprint you claim is a more universal blueprint and one that will last from Adam till the end of time and covers everyone. Every Prophet came with a message and its "worship one God and do not associate partners with him. This is why the story of the golden calf stands out and why the verses I sighted of Jesus saying don't worship me stand out. Likewise, Muhammad (saW) came with the same message. And for every Prophet, they asked their people to accept them as a Prophet and thus the miracles to prove their Propphethood. Acceptance of the Prrophet is part of the bluerprint as well, so long as you knwo about the Prophet's existence. Thus, the old principal and the Quranic principle even covers the bush man in the jungles. If the Bushman grows up believing in one God and worshiping no one else besides that God that created him, that Bushman is saved, even if he never heard of Abraham or Moses, or Jesus or Mohammed. But once he is informed of them and is given proof of their messengership, then he is obliged to accept them. The Christians way damns anyone who never accepted Jesus even if they never heard of him. That is truly unfair and not godlike, if U ask me.[/b] |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 1:54am On Dec 02, 2007 |
Lakpenne: First allow me to appreciate your mature approach to responding to criticism, it is a breath of fresh air as compared to the garbled responses we get from alhaji and blabs787 which border on the paranoid. Back to your quote above: Are muslims now trying to shift the blame of the "lost" torah and injil on christians now? Surah Al-Imran 3: 3 Step by step has He bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ,* setting forth the truth which confirms whatever there still remains [of earlier revelations]:** for it is He who has bestowed from on high the Torah and the Gospel Sura 6:115 "Perfected is the word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught that can change His words." 1. If allah's words CAN NEVER be changed, then it stands to reason that the christian bible CANNOT be from him since muslims claim it has been corrupted. If that is the case then WHERE is allah's original torah and injil? 2. Surah 9 Ayat 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! If allah's curses be on the jews, why then did allah send them the torah? Would it not have been better for the torah to have been sent to the Ishmaelites? the very lineage muslims claim is the covenant child of abraham? Lakpenne: In your haste to use the biblical men of God as a shield for mohammed's desperately vaucous claims to "prophethood" you have ignorantly missed the point. ONLY GOD is described in the bible as the HEALER. Exodus 15: 26 . . . for I am the LORD that healeth thee. In the new testament Christ makes it clear that by ourselves we can do nothing; Mark 16: 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they . . . Moses, David, Abraham could not heal anyone for they were mere men like you and i but when God chose to show himself through them, he gave them the power to perform miracles. Look at the case of Elijah as a very good example or Moses. Now the reason i asked whether Mohammed performed miracles is simple . . . muslims equate Mohammed as being a prophet like Jesus christ . . . assuming that is even remotely true . . . why was Mohammed unable to perform EVEN ONE miracle as Jesus did? christians have no reason to wonder why David performed no miracles (the slaying of goliath was one) because we know he was a mere man . . . we know Jesus could and does heals because He has the power to do so AS GOD. Lakpenne: no arab poetry comes close to any western poetry so far. If you have any pls dont hesitate to let us know. Lakpenne: Isaiah 53: 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 2:08am On Dec 02, 2007 |
Lakpenne: Indeed there WAS a blueprint before the death of Christ on the cross. That blueprint was the yearly pilgrimage to jerusalem to offer up sacrifices in the form of bulls and goats as a substitute for sin, for purification by the priests and to sanctify the people. Please read the book of Hebrews for better understanding. Lakpenne: To start with you dont even know the pre-Christ blueprint at all. That "blueprint" ended with the death on the cross when Christ said "It is finished". In the OT, sin could only be cleansed by the shedding of animal blood, with Christ's death on the cross His blood covered ALL sacrifices for sin. That is why christians no longer carry rams to jerusalem just to be cleansed from sin. Lakpenne: Yes that was part of the message BUT the biblical prophets came with a much greater message . . . the message of salvation, of eternal life and of deliverance from the power of sin. Lakpenne: Mohammed did not come with the same message as that of Isaiah and Zechariah. Lakpenne: Nope, the biblical prophets did not need to split the moon to prove they were sent by God. Lakpenne: False again. That is the message of islam that has nothing to do with christianity. Lakpenne: Here is the problem . . . how does the bush man know that "god"? What is his name and how does the bushman reach him? will he have to learn arabic? Lakpenne: That is why God is truly longsuffering, the end will not come until the gospel has reached the uttermost parts of the world. with print, television and radio media, internet and co . . . no one will have the excuse on the last day that they never heard of Jesus. the bible has been translated into hundreds of languages . . . the igbos will have no excuse that it was because the bible was written in yoruba that was why they never heard of Christ. Likewise you will be judged by this very thread, because you heard of the message of salvation and turned deaf ears to it. God bless. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by focused(m): 3:02am On Dec 02, 2007 |
I have found Christians busy themselves with what amounts to mindless attacks on Islam concerning issues that they have no historical context. Even assuming that some of their arguments are valid as an attacks on the validity of Quran, the same attacks can be labelled on them. The only thing, it seems, that Christians can always fall back on is the fact the Jesus, the son of Mary, never fought in a war and was "peaceful." However, they never seem to mention that in the book of revelations, I believe, Jesus will return and fight in a war and kill many Jews. What do you think the dominionist evangelical Christians of the USA believe. But, be that as it may, this issue is also not improtant considering the issue of religious validity. The key question is one of theological belief about God. @lakpenne Let me correct the following misconceptions you seems to have : Muslim god is allah. allah is an idol in Saudi Arabia. Islamic religion is an Idolatrous, occultic religion that encourages propagating Islamic religion by force, encourages Jihad, hatred for other religion, promotes polygamy and all sorts of rituals and witchcraft, hence the symbols of a quarter moon and star. Hence the christians and the muslims are not worshipping the same God. Although we are all from father Abraham. Muhammad ( who is the founder of this Islamic religion ) is a product of diversion, because if Abraham have patiently waited on the lord just as the lord has promised, this issue of Ishmaelites would not have come up and the world will not be going through all these problems we are going through. Islam religion does not show tolerance at all. Who is mohammed that they should not criticise him ? God who created we (human beings ) gave us a choice, to either do good or evil. Human beings do criticise and challenge God As a result the christian God is different from your allah. " YOU SAID IN REVELATION, THAT JESUS SAID HE WILL COME AND FIGHT WITH THE JEWS " Can you quote where exactly in revelation if what you are saying have any credibility. Have you forgotten that the Jews and Arabs are related?. They are all children of father Abraham, so why do most muslims have a great hatred for the jews ? Why are muslims against their existence in the middle east ? 99.9% of muslims don't know the bible, and 99% don't even know the Quran. All they know is violence, senseless violence. " YOU SAID ANYONE WHO SAID JESUS IS GOD IS A LIAR " First of all, Jesus was conceived through what we called immaculate conception, by the holy spirit, he was born of the virgin mary. he was not born as a result of sexual intercourse, just the way mohammed was born. Jesus is God the son. If you want me to explain more, I will. Your Quran is full of contradictions, that is why when mohammed die, there was no succession. May God help us. That is why any country that adopts Islam as a state religion will never experience peace. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by focused(m): 3:25am On Dec 02, 2007 |
@Olabowale : I have a feeling you are a moderate muslim, but maybe we could learn from each other. The people who carried out Suicide bombing against innocent civilians and the the people who are involved in the 911 attacks do justify their attack from the quran, especially from surah 9:5 and surah 9:29, of which if you read it very well, directly translates to what they are doing Why are muslims so intolerant ? Why will they want to kill anyone who criticises Mohammed ? God created human being to have choice, to do good or evil. human being do criticises God, so if they can criticise God, then why can't they speak their mind about what they think of mohammed and his followers ? Why do the Islamic religion promotes hatred and intolerance against christians and the jews ? Why is that a christian cannot bring bible into Saudi Arabia ? Afterall Christianity have being existing in Saudi Arabia, before the 7th century Islamic religion. Why are Nigerians muslims in particular showing solidarity to Arab muslims. These were the same people who enslave black people. These were the same people who don't like blacks. You will not realise this racism, not until you work with Arabs. Would they get the same sympathy from Arab muslims if something goes wrong with Nigerian muslims. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Lakpenne: 3:28am On Dec 02, 2007 |
Davidylan: I appreciate your response as it is less ranting than usual and more thought out but here is the problem U have as well as the problem I have. First, I am not one of those that is inclined to use the Bible as sole proof of anything, only as supporting proof. I don't believe the Bible can stand by itslef as proof (U do not have to accept that, that's o.k.). Many of your responses suggest, or think, that I believe the Bible is true. Likewise, many of my responses sometimes forget that you do not accept the Quran. With that said, this is why at times I suggest we take an objective look at what the Prophets came with as we see from a comparative look at the Quran and Torah and Bible. With that said, let me proceed: As for God sending Jesus to the Jews, it is obvious that there was something the Jews were doing for God to send Jesus to them. They were not innocent, proven by the fact that they rejected Jesus despite all the miracles he performed in front of them. So, it is very plausibel that, and consistent with the Quran and what should logically follow, that God was upset with the Jews and angry with them, yet sent them a final messenger for deliverance - and they rejected him. As for the salvation? The most critical thread between the Prophets, I would argue, is their preaching of one God and not committing shirk or polytheism. As for the act to be performed for salvation is ancillary. What good is being free from sin if you don't know worship a God besides God. For example, what if someone performs all the actions necessary to gain salvation, such as the old sacrifice of the goat, but also worship a cow. He will not be saved. Since Christians believe u need t accept Jesus to be saved, as that belief is the heart of Christian theology, what difference does it make or what good is it if you do everything else good but reject Jesus. I submit that since all the Prophets came with the message of monotheism, this is the most important and everything else is ancillary. Jesus is the only one with a different definition of monotheism, which includes the trinity. "Nope, the biblical prophets did not need to split the moon to prove they were sent by God." --- fine. But that says nothing. The point is wther its splitting the moon, feeding an entire load of people with little food, raising the dead, killing Goliath, splitting the Red Sea, they all needed something to give the people as a stamp of approval that they are a Prophet. Otherwise, any Tom dick or Harry can say, "hey I am a Prophet" with out prsenting any authenticating papers we call miracles. "Here is the problem . . . how does the bush man know that "god"? What is his name and how does the bushman reach him? will he have to learn arabic?" Like I said before , God belief itself if quite simple. His essence is a greater mystery. But things like the fact that he is all powerful and the creator of everything, etc is intuitive and a natural inferrence from the fact that we live. Muslims believe everyone is a Muslim because Islam simply means one that submits to God. Whether it be a Bushman or an educated Harvard boy, we all ask the question "who am I and where did I come from" Why? Because I submit that we arre hardwired to believe in God. So the Bshman does not have to be told about God belief, its natural. he knows the simple things such as the fact that God created him and knows that since God created him, God is the only one deserving of worship. That's all he needs as Bushman. For more sophisticated people they might need more. The Bushman's basic belief is te essence of what the Prophets came from. If he has that, he is in a better position than the one who associates partnership with God yet does all sorts of other worship and rituals. The latter is a fool and damned. As for learning Arabic, you can get a superficial understanding of the quran, enough to suffice for basic belief, reading its translation in your language and as you said, one will have no excuse that they were unable to read it. But to really get an in depth meaning, you need to read it in its original language. Ever heard of "lost in translation?" The arabic language is rich, if one ever learned it or even tried to learn it you'd see. "no arab poetry comes close to any western poetry so far. If you have any please don't hesitate to let us know." -- sorry sir but that is a foolish statement. Not because it might not be true but because you don't know Arab poetry. If you did, maybe I would take your word for it. But until then, that is simply your opinion. Finally, and I hope I covered all, the fact that God is the healer and Jesus healed does not in an of itself translate into Jesus being God. If god truly said that, then so be it but I don't believe he did. As a logical progression, it does not hold true that because Jesus healed and God is known and the healer that Jesus is God and this is why (notice, I am not arguing against the word of the Bible, that would be pointless, but rather, the illogical assumption you make) God is known to have endowed several of the prior Prophets with powers that only God can have and we never called them God. No man can split the sea but God can. No man can turn a stick into a serpent (give life to a lifeless thing) but Moses did and we never called him God? Why? Cause its understood that God helpe him do it by His will. In fact, I would argue that giving life to an inanimate object like a stick (not the magic the pharoahs minons performed) is greater than giving life to a dead animate thing like a human. One could argue, the human was never really dead but in a coma and then Jesus just happened upon him when he was awakening (silly argument but can be made). As for the stick, there is no question it was dead and then not only had life, but had life in the form of a thing other than a stick - a serpent. Yet, we don't say that God is the giver of life and Moses gave life to the stick therefore Moses is God. See, its not consistent in light of what we know about the powers of God. So, I submit that just because Jesus healed or raised the dead or was born of a virgin mother (Adam had no mother and father and that's even greater) is not sufficient basis to believe that he is God. God bless. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 3:33am On Dec 02, 2007 |
babs787: I gave you a befitting response,you either have it on the main text or on the footnotes and if you had an eye,you would have seen it. and if you didn't ,you could read it from the other synoptic gospel like Matthew as shown you,if you didn't see it,I can't help you Next!  |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 4:20am On Dec 02, 2007 |
Lakpenne: You are very correct, BUT the plan of God to die for our sins through Jesus Christ had already been hatched long before the jews came on the scene . . . the very minute Adam fell the bible records that "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". Through Adam's fall man became spiritually dead, separated from God through sin. It became imperative that to appear before God we would need to be cleansed from sin and that was why Christ came to shed His blood. It had very little to do with the jews really, God simply used the jews as the people He chose to manifest Himself through . . . He could as well have chosen the Moabites. Lakpenne: you are simply stretching the facts to force-fit the quran. Remember Allah cursed the jews allegedly for rejecting his "final messenger". but God, in the book of Numbers, tells us clearly that the Jews had already been blessed and COULD NEVER be cursed. Since God does not change His word it becomes clear that the God that blessed the jews in the OT could not be the same Allah cursing them in the quran. God was upset with the jews on several occassions but NEVER cursed them even once. Remember the issue of the golden calf in the wilderness, God was so upset he wanted to wipe them all out YET he forgave them, remember those who murmured after they were sent to spy out the promised land? Yet God never cursed them, remember the 70yrs they spent in captivity in Babylon after they went after false gods? Yet God never cursed them. Lakpenne: this is false. The jews did not need a prophet to remind them to worship one God after they got the 10 commandments. Read through the bible . . . this is simply an attempt to force the quran and mohammad's false message into the bible. Lakpenne: Hebrews 9:22 22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. . . . of sins. Dear Lakpenne, the wages of sin is spiritual death, no two ways about it and without salvation there is NO remission of sins. to declare that salvation is unimportant is to dig your eternal grave. Lakpenne: Your example holds no water for you, by human reasoning, assume that salvation is a ritual to be performed. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Salvation is a process of the heart . . . it is impossible for you to be saved and continue in your old ways. For behold old things are passed away and all things have become new. Lakpenne: You are simply trying to force the biblical prophets into allah's mould. The biblical prophets came with the message of salvation. they didnt need to remind the people of the 10 commandments. Read Isaiah 53 . . . Read the book of Daniel, there is nothing there about worshipping one God. Read hosea, Ezekiel, Jeremiah . . . monotheism was not part of their writings. Lakpenne: The true test of a biblical prophet was not miracles . . . for even the magicians of pharaoh could perform magic too: Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. How many prophecies did "prophet" mohammad give and how many came to pass? that is the true test of a prophet. the power to perform miracles was given to some prophets as a sign that the Lord was with them. For others who didnt, the children of Isreal did not require splitting of the moon to know who was a prophet and who was not. there was never any confusion. Lakpenne: that is a belief from the deceiver himself . . . the devil. Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. It takes submitting to be led. Lakpenne: to start with, allah does not heal. Is that enough proof that he CANNOT be the same God of the bible who declares - - I AM the God that healeth thee? Healing is only done through the NAME of Jesus Christ. If that is not enough proof that he is God then i dont know what is. All other apostles who performed miracles in the bible did so with that Name. Lakpenne: For this very reason we have the raising of lazarus who had been dead 4 DAYS and had already been wound tightly with linen cloth. Of course someone can be in a coma for 4 days but you cant be without oxygen for more than 4 minutes. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by pilgrim1(f): 9:59am On Dec 02, 2007 |
@davidylan and other Christians, 'Well done' would be an understatement for the huge efforts you guys have put into helping our Muslim friends come to terms with what's scratching them.  Anyhow, after all their 'Tawhid', if one is to ask them if Muhammad passed the test of the same Torah he came to confirm, wahala go scatter for ground!  |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 6:11pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@Focused: Thank you for your confidence in me. I am learning, but gradually getting better in knowing Who imy Creator is and what should be my responsibility to Him. I have a feeling you are a moderate muslim, but maybe we could learn from each other. (I do not have any tangible scholarship in Islam, but i will speak to you from my heart. I ask that God guides my speech and let it be measured for success, only for His cause. Amiin) 1) The people who carried out Suicide bombing against innocent civilians and the the people who are involved in the 911 attacks do justify their attack from the quran, especially from surah 9:5 and surah 9:29, of which if you read it very well, directly translates to what they are doing My response: According to the reports that we have of the 911 hijackers, at least one of them spent his last night on earth in the bar, where he drank until he was drunk. He danced the night away, even on the bar table/stool, with all the trimmings of what they do in the bar, girls, smoking, etc. If this is true, is this the way a man who believed in God will like to end his life, as he himself is sure about what he was going to do, the following morning? Is it a good Muslim quality to parade the bar at all, and get drunk? Is it a good Muslim quality to dance away and perform or at least attempt fornication? How can a habitual drinker and the other ills listed about this particular man be a religious man? Hardly and very unlikely! About Suratul Tauba, chapter 9 and its verses listed above, you should know that it was revealed for its appropriateness, at the time it was revealed. It was not a band of Muslim who engaged in the many battles/wars that these verses were revealed upon. The Muslims fought, all of them, together as one body. Everyone that was able body was ready and prepared to fight. There was no opposition within the Muslims. They fought under the Banner of One God, indivisible God. Under One prophet and Messenger of God, Muhammad (as). However, the bands or fragments which claimed or are claimed to be fighting for Islam today are doing it for their own personal end, individually or as a group. There is no complete body of Muslim scholars that will say these people are fighting for Islam. If Muslims were to fight as a body, it will be for just cause; Only raising the flag of Laa ilaha ilallah, Muhammadanr Rasulullah Salaalahu aleyhi salaam. The only reason this can happen, and be justify is if Muslims all over the world are being prevented from going to Mosque to pray, even in the so called Muslim lands. The Muslim land is wrongly labelled. This is not to say that the verses could not be potentially applicable, sometimes in the history of man. I am saying that that is not the case now. The Muslims need to look into their own hearts first. Help themselves into being good to themselves and their neighbors and the society at large, while still believing God as One. Islam calls for well rounded belief/faith. If the Muslim were to fight as a unit, having the singular goal without the stupidity that you see within Islam, today, there will be catastrophe in the lands. May God Almighty in His Infinite Mercy not let us have it , now or in the future of man. 2) Why are muslims so intolerant ? Why will they want to kill anyone who criticises Muhammad ? God created human being to have choice, to do good or evil. human being do criticises God, so if they can criticise God, then why can't they speak their mind about what they think of mohammed and his followers ? My response:I am just an ordinary Muslim. I have no special quality to see the heart of my fellow man. However I can make a give time assessment of a person, based on what is said and or done at that time. The future belongs to God alone. It is the foolishness of a man that will make him criticise his Creator. Now am not saying that I am special and not potentially within the group of people that criticise. However, it very terrible that we carry this foolish and perilous behaviour to the extend to affect other people. Especially when you leave your saints and leaders of your religion as secrete Cows, Unreachable, but find it pleasurable to deride other peoples religious leadership. Notice that there is no Christian, unless just Christian by name only, or assumed to be Christian, that has criticised Paul, and never Jesus. Why Muhammad? I ask you, my friend? Have you ever seen any Muslim who have ever criticised Jesus son of Mary? It will never happen. It will the same as if he had criticised Muhammad who succeeded Jesus son of Mary, if it an Muslim ever does. He can forget his Islam, unless he reenter Islam by seeking forgiveness from God, directly. 3) Why do the Islamic religion promotes hatred and intolerance against Christians and the jews ? My response: My mother was a Christian until just few years ago. Thank God. But in all of her years as a Christian, I never expressed any hatred towards her. Okay, so she is my mother. Alright, the remnants of Christianity in my family, both father and mother sides enjoy aboundant of love with me. In business, some of my closest confidants are Jews and or Christians. And by the way, I do not need them as much as they need me. Thank God. Some of them almost became biting bulldogs against me immediately after 911. But thank God, in the end, I have been made Victorious over them. (Even the Jews call others Gentiles and the Christians called others the Unyoked) 4) Why is that a christian cannot bring bible into Saudi Arabia ? Afterall Christianity have being existing in Saudi Arabia, before the 7th century Islamic religion. My response: I am not a Saudi, so I can not comment on the Saudi policy for the country as a whole. However, God commanded that no non Muslim should be allowed in Makka. Muhammad bin Abdallah (as), extended this commandment, to cover Madina as well. I am very satisfy with the two standing instructions. For illustration purpose only, you have the right to tell me how to qualify myself to enter your house. So does God and His Messenger. Do I agree with the Saudi extending this to cover the whole Saudi Arabia? I really do not have any opinion. However, there are many things that they do that I do not agree with. Since they are the custodian of the two Mosques, one would expect them to be just, where justice is needed and be merciful, when mercy is good, espectially when it comes to the matters of the poor, the weak and the the unprivileged. 5) Why are Nigerians Muslims in particular showing solidarity to Arab Muslims. These were the same people who enslave black people. These were the same people who don't like blacks. You will not realise this racism, not until you work with Arabs. Would they get the same sympathy from Arab Muslims if something goes wrong with Nigerian Muslims. My response: You are also to include the blind solidarity of the Nigerians with the Christian Europe, who did exactly the same as you have described the Arabs above. A resent example is what happened in Rwanda, when the priest/pastor abandoned the very African blacks who packed his luggaged. He behaved that African was his very worst enemy, the moment, the European Military came to take him out of dodge! You see, humans are humans. Some are good, but majority are very evil. The Nigerian Christians do not care for justice. They have been reeling in with the 3 godhead in one madness. This is why some of them have no shame in their support for Israel. The very people who claimed themselves to be superior over all people. Claiming over and over againthat they are the chosen people with end. Even as they do filthy things, disobeying God and killing His messengers and prophets. How long do you think they should have this 'special status,' if God is just? They can have it for so long until the appointed time. The appointed time came in the person of Jesus son of Mary. He performed tremendous miracles that were unprecedented in its time. Yet they did not follow him. Then came the last of the Prophets and Messengers, Muhammad ibn Abdallah! All human being is an ambassador to himself, first then to his family and to the larger body of mankind, in calling to the worship of God the Almighty Allah, alone without partnership. Finally, I do not look at the Arabs for my Islam. First, not all Arabs are Muslims. And not all Muslims are Arabs. Islam entered Ethiopia before it entered Madina. Egyptians and others can claim that their not Africans, yet they are located in Africa. Indeed it is the same descendants of the subsahara Africans that are the primary source of support that they have after 911. Muslims are one body that is the issue on this. Yet we have bad family members within it, but we do not turn them out to the buggie man to scare. You show good behaviour, and they may just take something good from you, in the long run. The mindset of the North Africans, who blindly claimed that they are not Africans, may just be in the same light as the One who claimed godship for a mere mortal. Have you thought about it, You do do not have to have an idol in front of you, before you are an idol worshipper. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by pilgrim1(f): 7:31pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@olabowale, olabowale: Actually, your response is an excuse. Go back in history and understand that Muslims who were companions of were actually involved in fornication! Let's remind you of the fact: [list]Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135: Narrated Jabir: We used to practice coitus interrupt us during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle.[/list] It wasn't as if Muhammad tried to discourage the act of fornication among his companions; he was only concerned that his companions do not withdraw in the sexual acts until they have satisfied their lust - because a soul coming into the world was more important to him! But when you turn to the Qur'an, you even find that Muhammad sanctioned fornication as an Islamic tenet among the Muslim ummah! Let's first read Qur'an 4:24 (Hilali-Khan's tr.): [list]Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever AllKnowing, AllWise. [/list] Readers should understand what is going on in that verse. While it seemed that Muhammad was discouraging Muslims from "committing illegal sexual intercourse", he was actually sanctioning it! We have to understand first that he made an exception to "captives and slaves" in satisfying the lust of Muslim men - for it does not matter nor is it obligatory for Muslim men to first seek to marry these women before they have sexual intercourse with them! When Muhammad says, "provided you seek (them in marriage)", he was not indicating at all that Muslim men should first marry the captives before committing illegal sexual intercourse with them! The second thing to note is that Muhammad was fond of making laws to justify his own lust while forbidding it from others! Let's read the preceding verse Quran 4:23 (Hilali-Khan's tr.): [list]Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your fathers' sisters and your mothers' sisters and brother's daughters, and sister's daughters, and your foster mothers that have given you suck, and your foster-sisters, and the mothers of your wives, and your step-daughters, who are your wards being born of your wives to whom you have gone in - but if you have not gone in unto them, there is no blame on you - and the wives of your sons that are from your loins; and it is forbidden to you to have two sisters together in marriage, except what has already passed; surely ALLAH is Most Forgiving Merciful.[/list] Now let's outline the particulars in that verse. It clearly states that Muslims are FORBIDDEN the following: ~ their fathers' sisters ~ their mothers' sisters ~ their brother's daughters ~ their sister's daughters ~ their step-daughters ~ the wives of their sons Do readers realize that Muhammad justified over 90% of these prohibitions for himself while forbidding it unto others? When Muslims are presented with these facts, they quickly say that Muhammad is a human being like the rest of us!! But this is the verse that clearly shows that Muhammad actually justified his own lust that he forbade others: [list]Sura 33:50-51 O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[/list] While Muhammad forbade others, he justified his own lust - in order that it may be no difficulty for him to do as he pleased! The clause of "any believing woman" meant that there were no restrictions as to whosoever Muhammad wanted to lust after - and it does not matter that those women were related to him or not!! You can see clearly that while Muhammad forbade others from seeking to marry "the wives of their sons" (Qur'an 4:23), it was no difficulty for him to have lusted after Zaynab (the wife of his adopted son, Zaid)!! This doublespeak in Islam has been the very issue feeding the unbridled sexual lust of Muslim men today - as long as the Qur'an said "there is no blame", they are willing to commit as much fornication as they desire! |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 7:41pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
hmmmm . . . . And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful and most deceitful. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by pilgrim1(f): 7:45pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
davidylan: Precisely. Just for Muhammad, he justifies his own lust with a "revelation" from 'Allah' and forbids the same lust from his Muslim followers. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 8:02pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: Before I respond to your above thesis on Prophet Muhammad, I want you to chew on this, or better yet, put it in your smoking pipe, with whatever it is that you smoke, and smoke it. It will not be surprising that you smoke, based on your Slandering habit. Below is your quality, in full view of mankind: The Threat to Those Who fabricate Slander (And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly,) means, they attribute to them things of which they are innocent, which they do not know and do not do. (they bear the crime of slander and plain sin.) This is the most serious slander, to tell or transmit things about the believing men and women that they have not done, in order to bring shame upon them and accuse them of shortcomings. Among those to whom the description most applies are those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers, followed by the Rafidites who accuse the Companions of shortcomings and faults of which Allah has stated that they are innocent, and describe them as the opposite of what Allah has said about them. Allah, may He be exalted, has told us that He is pleased with the Migrants and Ansar, and has praised them, but these foolish and ignorant people inveigh against them and accuse them of shortcomings, and say things about them that they did not do and could never have done. In reality, their hearts are misguided, for they condemn those who deserve praise and praise those who deserve condemnation. Abu Dawud recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that it was said: "O Messenger of Allah, what is backbiting (Ghibah)'' He said, (It is when you mention something about your brother that he dislikes. ) It was asked, "But what if what I say about my brother is true'' He said, (If it is true, then you have committed backbiting (Ghibah) about him, and if it is not true, then you have slandered him.) This was also recorded by At-Tirmidhi, who said, "Hasan Sahih.'' (59. O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their Jalabib over their bodies. That will be better that they should be known so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) (60. If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who spread false news among the people in Al-Madinah stop not, We shall certainly let you overpower them, then they will not be able to stay in it as your neighbors but a little while.) (61. Accursed, they shall be seized wherever found, and killed with a (terrible) slaughter.) (62. That was the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old, and you will not find any change in the way of Allah.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 10:03pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
huh? To quote the quran is to slander it? |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by aslan333: 11:32pm On Dec 02, 2007 |
d real question is does allah love u? other then his name and the fact that he is one god wat do d muslims really know about allah? how come dis "final revelation" is so much deficient in material on God then the bible? is any muslim 100 per cent sure of heaven like xtians who believe in christ? eternity is not a joke and this shouldnt b an ego thing on whose religion is better, ask urself some basic questions on this god u follow. we christians believe 11 men who say they saw the risen christ and had 500 other witnesses u muslims bank ur eternity on one man who received revelations and heard voices that NO ONE else could back up. u bank ur eternity on one mans word. we have a crowd of witneses to our believes pls just ask God to honestly reveal himself to u and stop these insults cos eternity is no joke |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Lakpenne: 12:55am On Dec 03, 2007 |
Davidylan: Again, you are working from a framework that I credit the Bible as an authentic source. I don't doubt that the Bible contains truths - no question. I just cannot say that its authentic and cannot differentiate what is true and what is false except either from logical deduction or because it contradicts the only book I consider to be authentic - the Quran. If you believe that the Jews never angered God nor did he curse them and that they will inherit heaven therefrom, there is nothing I can really say about that. I simply do not believe that. If I believe that, then it serves me well to convert to Judaism immediately (most of the Jews today are actually converts) Question for you: do you believe that even if the Jews do not take Jesus as their lord and savior they will go to heaven? If so, then I think you should become a Jew. If not, then they must be cursed on some level with respect to their failure to believe in Jesus. Please enlighten me as to your belief on this subject. As for Jesus being ordained to come to earth, this is the same for everyone else. Adam, Noah, Moses, etc were all ordained to come. I hold the opinion that these Prophets, including Prophet Muhammad (saw) were sent to put the people back on the path of guidance from which they deviated. the utmost of that guidance in my opinon is monotheism. The ten commandments came after Abraham and lots of other Prophets so it did not apply to them. However, the first few commandments remind us of the original message of all the Prophets. Like I tried to argue earlier, monotheism is key because if you are not grounded in monotheism, then you are no better than the hindu who worships a cow or a monkey god, etc. Hindus believe in a supreme god and they worship likewise but we consider them polytheistic. Why? Because they give partnership in dominion and worship to God and say things about Him that are not true. U said: "it is impossible for you to be saved and continue in your old ways." This confuses me. I thought you are saved simply by accepting. There are many people who have accpeted and continue on their old ways, no? U said: " Read the book of Daniel, there is nothing there about worshipping one God. Read hosea, Ezekiel, Jeremiah . . . monotheism was not part of their writings." Well, this assumes that's an authentic writing. Also, even if it was authentic, that does not believe they never did it and that does not mean its not important. Moreover, forget them. Your own Jesus spoke about monotheism by warning people against the over praise of him and that they should praise God. Again, I only use the Bible here to refute what you have said concerning the non-importance of monotheism. Better yet, the ten commandments is monumental as a text of God's laws and it begins with the first three or four speaking exaclty about monotheism. See how important it is. I try to stay away from using the Bible or even the Quran but rather use an objective standard of logic. I again submit to you as a test that if monotheism is not the essence of belief and salvation , then what is it that separate the Christian from the Hindu and the Bhuddhist. I say that the difference is that you differ from them from the definition of monotheism. I ask you, are Hindu's monotheistic and why? U said: "How many prophecies did "prophet" mohammad give and how many came to pass? that is the true test of a prophet." "the Romans have been defeated in a short time, " (The Romans had just defeated the Persians and the Prophet was immediately telling people through the Quran that the powerful romans would be defeated. Shrotly thereafter, they were defeated) "Perish the two hands of Abu Lahab and Perish He" (Abu Lahab heard this being recited while Abu Lahab was alive. Theis verse basically says that Abu Lahab will die a disbeliever. Abu Lahab could have just become a Muslim to prove him worng and then apostate. It never happened and Abu Lahab perished a non--Muslim) He said that the Muslims will be in large numbers yet over come by the non-Muslims. (Look a them now compared to the rule they had before) One of the signs of the day of judgment is that there will be dancing women in every home (you have one in you home) He said that if a fly falls in your drink, dip it in the drink fully and drink from it if you wish of throw it away if you wish (after removing the fly of course) - scientist have foudnd now that one wing has the disease and the other antidote Before you lick your lips and attack the above, kindly forward me some of Jesus' claimed prophecies. I shall not atack them but interested in knowing them. BTW, let it be clear that when I say things about Jesus it is not to disparage him but rather to clear his name from the crimes of which you accuse him - that he claimed to be God. My point has been and always will be that it is unbelievable that would ever say he was God because its simply not true as the Quran says he was not. From a logical perspective or even a religous history perspective, there is nothing so unusually special about Jesus to set him apart from others before him such that we must say he was God. With respect ot healing, there is hadith in which the companions cured someone by reciting surat al-faatihah and the Prophet used the same to heal people. Healing is not, and I don't believe you have shown, a clear indication that someone is God. It can easily be said that the person healed by the help or permission of God. It can be easily explained because we see similar things with other Prophets. I am still waiting for something independent of the Bible or Quran or Torah from which one should be convinced clearly that Jesus was God or that makes religiously historical sense in the context of the Bible itself. I offered you at least four: (1) God is uncreated and Jesus is created so therefore he cannot be God. (2) All Prophets before Jesus said, there is one God and not to worship anyone besided God and Jesus comes and says "no, go is three.", (3) In the same Bible, this Jesus that's supposed to be God cries out to God why have you forsaken me and also prays to Him , (4) there is nothing so fantastic about things Jesus that one has no option but to say, "no, this guy MUST be God." These four areas of analysis clear and strongly contradict and logical attempts or Biblical attempts to assert that Jesus is God. So, at a minimum, it would be very dubious for someone to jump to such a conclusion with nothing more concrete. For everything that one can say Jesus did such and such and hat prove's he's God. I can simply reply, "God helped him do such and such and he is not God." My response holds true for every Prophet, inlcuding Mohammed - so he (saw) is not saved from the same analysis. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 1:35am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: As the Ibadan people say: O ba mi nbe! As I said earlier, you to me, madam, is a shameless slanderer. I begin, by Allah my refuttal of your slandering. Suratul Azhab clearly tells us the nature of Muhammad (as), as regards to his wives. Giving the Wives of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم the Choice Here Allah commands His Messenger to give his wives the choice of separating from him so that they may go to someone else with whom they can find what they want of the life of this world and its attractions, or of patiently bearing the straitened circumstances with the Prophet for which they will have a great reward with Allah. They chose Allah and His Messenger and the Home of the Hereafter, may Allah be pleased with them. Then Allah gave them the best both of this world and of the Hereafter. Al-Bukhari narrated from `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, the wife of the Prophet that the Messenger of Allah came to her when Allah commanded him to give his wives the choice. She said, "The Messenger of Allah started with me, and said, (I am going to tell you about something and you do not have to hasten to respond until you consult your parents.)'' He knew that my parents would never tell me to leave him. Then he said: (Allah says: ("O Prophet! Say to your wives, '')) and he recited the two Ayat. I said to him, "Concerning what do I need to consult my parents I choose Allah and His Messenger and the Home of the Hereafter.'' He also narrated it without a chain of narrators, and added, "She said, then all the wives of the Prophet did the same as I.'' Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, said: "The Messenger of Allah gave us the choice, and we chose him, so giving us that choice was not regarded as divorce.'' It was recorded by (Al-Bukhari and Muslim) from the Hadith of Al-A`mash. Imam Ahmad recorded that Jabir, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him, came to ask permission to see the Messenger of Allah and the people were sitting at his door, and the Prophet was sitting, but he did not give him permission. Then `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, came and asked permission to see him, but he did not give him permission. Then he gave Abu Bakr and `Umar, may Allah be pleased with them both, permission, and they entered. The Prophet was sitting with his wives around him, and he was silent. `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, said, `I will tell the Prophet something to make him smile.' `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, said, `O Messenger of Allah, if only you had seen the daughter of Zayd -- the wife of `Umar -- asking me to spend on her just now; I broke her neck!' The Messenger of Allah smiled so broadly that his molars could be seen, and he said, (They are around me asking me to spend on them.) Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him, got up to deal with `A'ishah; and `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, got up to deal with Hafsah, and both of them were saying, `You are asking the Prophet for that which he does not have!' But the Messenger of Allah stopped them, and they (his wives) said, `By Allah, after this we will not ask the Messenger of Allah for anything that he does not have.' Then Allah revealed the Ayah telling him to give them the choice, and he started with `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her. He said, (I am going to tell you something, and I would like you not to hasten to respond until you consult your parents.) She said, `What is it' He recited to her: (O Prophet! Say to your wives, ) `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, said, `Do I need to consult my parents concerning you I choose Allah and His Messenger, but I ask you not to tell of my choice to your other wives.' He said: (Allah did not send me to be harsh, but He sent me to teach in a gentle and easy manner. If any of them asks me what your decision was, I will tell her.)'' This was also recorded by Muslim, but not Al-Bukhari; An-Nasa'i also recorded it. `Ikrimah said: "At that time he was married to nine women, five of them were from Quraysh -- `A'ishah, Hafsah. Umm Habibah, Sawdah and Umm Salamah, may Allah be pleased with them. And he was also married to Safiyyah bint Huyay An-Nadariyyah, Maymunah bint Al-Harith Al-Hilaliyyah, Zaynab bint Jahsh Al-Asadiyyah and Juwayriyyah bint Al-Harith Al-Mustalaqiyyah, may Allah be pleased with all of them. (30. O wives of the Prophet! Whoever of you commits an open Fahishah, the torment for her will be doubled, and that is ever easy for Allah.) (31. And whosoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger, and does righteous good deeds, We shall give her, her reward twice over, and We have prepared for her a noble provision.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 2:00am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1:I want you to read, with the best of understanding that may remain in your lying body. Then know that Muhammad ibn Abdallah, the Prophet of Allah, was not the man who you are painting in your dubious picture. Indeed, the sexual restriction that I place on myself, is simply based on what i gotten from the Qur'an. Aisha (ra), stated that Muhammad is the walking Qur'an. I believe it and I have no problem in accepting it 100% The Wives of the Prophet are not like Other Women This Ayah is addressed to the wives of the Prophet who chose Allah and His Messenger and the Home of the Hereafter, and remained married to the Messenger of Allah . Thus it was befitting that there should be rulings which applied only to them, and not to other women, in the event that any of them should commit open Fahishah. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "This means Nushuz (rebellion) and a bad attitude.'' Whatever the case, this is a conditional phrase and it does not imply that what is referred to would actually happen. This is like the Ayat: (And indeed it has been revealed to you, as it was to those before you: "If you join others in worship with Allah, surely your deeds will be in vain.'') (39:65) (But if they had joined in worship others with Allah, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.) (6:88) (Say: "If the Most Gracious had a son, then I am the first of (Allah's) worshippers.'') (43:81) (Had Allah willed to take a son, He could have chosen whom He willed out of those whom He created. But glory be to Him! He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible.) (39:4). Because their status is so high, it is appropriate to state that the sin, if they were to commit it, would be so much worse, so as to protect them and their Hijab. Allah says: (Whoever of you commits an open Fahishah, the torment for her will be doubled,) Malik narrated from Zayd bin Aslam: (the torment for her will be doubled,) "In this world and the next.'' Something similar was narrated from Ibn Abi Najih, from Mujahid. (and that is ever easy for Allah.) it is very easy indeed. Then Allah mentions His justice and His bounty, in the Ayah: (And whosoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger,) i.e., obeys Allah and His Messenger , (We shall give her, her reward twice over, and We have prepared for her a noble provision.) i.e., in Paradise, for they will be in the dwellings of the Messenger of Allah in the highest reaches of `Illiyin, above the dwellings of all the people, in Al-Wasilah which is the closest of the dwellings of Paradise to the Throne. h(32. O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep you have Taqwa, then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire, but speak in an honorable manner.) (33. And stay in your houses, and do not Tabarruj yourselves like the Tabarruj of the times of ignorance, and perform the Salah, and give Zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove the Ar-Rijs from you, O members of the family, and to purify you with a thorough purification.) (34. And remember, that which is recited in your houses of the Ayat of Allah and Al-Hikmah. Verily, Allah is Ever Most Courteous, Well-Acquainted with all things.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 2:18am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: Should i say anything? Read on. You need it, it will be a means to cleans your soul or act as a witness against you when you are on the Wariduha Alehya, over the Fire of hell. Remember, it is a HATMAN DECREE. Allah's rebuke to His Messenger and the Story of Zayd and Zaynab Allah tells what His Prophet said to his freed slave Zayd bin Harithah, may Allah be pleased with him, who was the one on whom Allah had bestowed grace, i.e., through Islam and following the Messenger . (and you have done a favor [to him]) means, by freeing him from slavery. And he was a great leader, held in high esteem and beloved by the Prophet . He was known as the beloved, and his son Usamah was known as the beloved son of the beloved. `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, said: "The Messenger of Allah never sent him on a campaign but he appointed him as its commander, and if he had lived after him he would have appointed him as his Khalifah.'' This was recorded by Imam Ahmad. The Messenger of Allah had given him in marriage to the daughter of his paternal aunt, Zaynab bint Jahsh Al-Asadiyyah, may Allah be pleased with her, whose mother was Umaymah bint `Abd Al-Muttalib. For her dowery he gave her ten Dinars, sixty Dirhams, a veil, a cloak and a shirt, fifty Mudds of food and ten Mudds of dates. This was stated by Muqatil bin Hayyan. She stayed with him for a year, more or less, then problems arose between them. Zayd complained about her to the Messenger of Allah , who told him, "Stay with your wife and have Taqwa of Allah.'' Allah says: (But you did hide in yourself that which Allah will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas Allah had a better right that you should fear Him.) Ibn Jarir narrated that `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, said, "If Muhammad were to have concealed anything that was revealed to him of the Book of Allah, he would have concealed this Ayah: (But you did hide in yourself that which Allah will make manifest, you did fear the people whereas Allah had a better right that you should fear Him.)'' (So, when Zayd had completed his aim with her, We gave her to you in marriage,) meaning, `when her marriage to Zayd was over and he had separated from her, We married her to you,' and the One Who was her Wali (guardian) in this marriage was Allah Himself, in the sense that He revealed to the Prophet that he should go in unto her without any Wali, contractual agreement, dowery or witnesses among mankind. Imam Ahmad recorded that Thabit said that Anas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "When Zaynab's `Iddah finished, may Allah be pleased with her, the Messenger of Allah said to Zayd bin Harithah (Go to her and tell her about me (that I want to marry her).) So, he went to her and found her kneading dough. He (Zayd) said, `When I saw her I felt such respect for her that I could not even look at her and tell her what the Messenger of Allah had said, so I turned my back to her and stepped aside, and said, `O Zaynab! Rejoice, for the Messenger of Allah has sent me to propose marriage to you on his behalf.' She said, `I will not do anything until I pray to my Lord, may He be glorified.' So she went to the place where she usually prayed. Then Qur'an was revealed and the Messenger of Allah came and entered without permission. We were there when she entered upon the Messenger of Allah , and for the wedding feast we offered bread and meat. Then the people left, and some men stayed behind conversing in the house after they had eaten. The Messenger of Allah went out and I followed him. He started to go around all the apartments of his wives, greeting them, and they said, `O Messenger of Allah, how did you find your (new) wife' I do not know whether I or someone else told him that those people had left, so he went and entered the house, and I went to enter after him, but he drew the curtain between himself and I. The ruling of Hijab was revealed and he exhorted the people as Allah had exhorted them: (Enter not the Prophet's houses, unless permission is given to you).'' This was also recorded by Muslim and An-Nasa'i. Al-Bukhari, may Allah have mercy on him, recorded that Anas bin Malik, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "Zaynab bint Jahsh, may Allah be pleased with her, used to boast to the other wives of the Prophet , saying, `Your families arranged your marriages, but Allah arranged my marriage from above the seven heavens.''' In (our Tafsir of) Surat An-Nur we mentioned that Muhammad bin `Abdullah bin Jahsh said: "Zaynab and `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with them, were boasting to one another; Zaynab, may Allah be pleased with her, said, `I am the one whose marriage was revealed from above the heaven.' `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, said, `I am the one whose innocence was revealed from heaven.' So, Zaynab conceded that, may Allah be pleased with her.'' (so that there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them.) means, `We permitted you to marry her, and We did that so that there would no longer be any difficulty for the believers with regard to their marrying the ex-wives of their adopted sons.' Before prophethood, the Messenger of Allah had adopted Zayd bin Harithah, may Allah be pleased with him, and he was known as Zayd, the son of Muhammad. Allah put a stop to this when He said: (nor has He made your adopted sons your real sons) until: (Call them after their fathers, that is more just with Allah) (33:4-5). Then this was confirmed and made even clearer by the marriage of the Messenger of Allah to Zaynab bint Jahsh, may Allah be pleased with her, when Zayd bin Harithah divorced her. Allah says in Ayat At-Tahrim: (the wives of your sons from your own loins) (4:23) which specifically excludes adopted sons. This custom (of adopting sons) was widespread among them. (And Allah's command must be fulfilled.) means, `this that has happened was decreed by Allah and was inevitable.' Allah knew that Zaynab, may Allah be pleased with her, would become one of the wives of the Prophet . (38. There is no blame on the Prophet in that which Allah has made legal for him. That has been Allah's way with those who have passed away of old. And the command of Allah is a decree determined.) (There is no blame on the Prophet in that which Allah has made legal for him.) means, in that which has been permitted for him and which he has been commanded to do, i.e. his marrying Zaynab, may Allah be pleased with her,, who had been divorced by his adopted son Zayd bin Harithah, (That has been Allah's way with those who have passed away of old.) means this is the ruling of Allah for the Prophets who came before him. Allah would not command them to do anything for which they might be blamed. This is a refutation of those hypocrites who imagined that there was anything wrong with his marrying the ex-wife of Zayd, his freed slave and adopted son. (And the command of Allah is a decree determined.) means, His command which He has decreed must inevitably come to pass; nothing can prevent it or avert it, for whatever He wills happens, and whatever He does not decree, does not happen. (39. Those who convey the Message of Allah and fear Him, and fear none save Allah. And sufficient is Allah as a Reckoner.) (40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever All-Aware of everything.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 2:23am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: Alhamdulillah. I am very satisfied with the religion that Allah completed on Muhammad. I am a full believer in his complete messengership. Praise for Those Who convey the Message Allah says: (Those who convey the Message of Allah) meaning, to His creation, and fulfil that with which they have been entrusted (and fear Him,) means, they fear Him and they do not fear any besides Him, so no threats on the part of anyone can prevent them from conveying the Message of Allah. (And sufficient is Allah as a Reckoner.) means, sufficient is Allah as a Helper and Supporter. The leader of all people in this regard and in all regards is Muhammad the Messenger of Allah , for he undertook to convey the Message to the people of the east and of the west, to all kinds of the sons of Adam, so Allah caused his word, his religion and his law to prevail over all other religions and laws. The Prophets before him were sent only to their own peoples, but he was sent to all of mankind, Arabs and non-Arabs alike. (Say: "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah'') (7:158). Then his Ummah inherited the task of conveying from him, and the greatest of those who undertook this task after him were his Companions, may Allah be pleased with them, who conveyed from him as he had commanded them, describing all his words, deeds and circumstances, night and day, when he was settled and when he was traveling, in private and in public, may Allah be pleased with them. Thereafter each generation inherited from their predecessors until our own time, so those who are guided, follow their example and their way. We ask Allah, the Most Generous Bestower, to make us among their heirs. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Lakpenne: 2:42am On Dec 03, 2007 |
Aslan: U said a lot of things that make no sense from a Muslim perspective in the same way that some things I might say make no sense from a xtian perspective. So, you have added nothing here but I shall respond briefly: d real question is does allah love u? other then his name and the fact that he is one god what do d muslims really know about allah? how come this "final revelation" is so much deficient in material on God then the bible? (what is it that you think we do not know about Allah that you know. We know one thing for sure and its that He does not sleep nor slumber and that He is life, etc. Please enlightened me as to what you think you know that I should know. U say the Quran is deficient but in what way, please explain. ) is any muslim 100 per cent sure of heaven like xtians who believe in christ? eternity is not a joke and this shouldnt b an ego thing on whose religion is better, ask yourself some basic questions on this god u follow. we christians believe 11 men who say they saw the risen christ and had 500 other witnesses u muslims bank your eternity on one man who received revelations and heard voices that NO ONE else could back up. u bank your eternity on one mans word. we have a crowd of witneses to our believes please just ask God to honestly reveal himself to u and stop these insults because eternity is no joke. But these witnesses only exist in the Bible and nowhere else. While I believe in Jesus the Prophet, its because the Quran says so not because the Bible does. Its simply your opinion that the Prophet spoke to himself. Could anyone back up what you claim jesus said about being God. Rather, we have hadith to confirm the witnesses to Prophet's message. As for your salvation, like I asked David, how is the bushman who never accpeted Jesus saved. He's basically screwed. In other words, Xtianity is ot universal. It does not encompass univerdal principles. Islam at its basic fundamental core = submission to the will of God and not associating partners to him. Anyone at any time, any century, any age, any level of wealth, any corner of the world, is capable of doing this. Eternity is guaranteed to the one who dies without associating partners to God. Xtians give a partner to God called Jesus and Jesus is free from such saying such things. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 3:02am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: I am going to leave you and people like you, with the indelible truth from your Lord, the Creator of all things. The sender of all Prophets and Messengers, not limited to but definately including Jesus son of Mary (as). The Attributes of the Messenger of Allah Imam Ahmad recorded that `Ata' bin Yasar said that he met `Abdullah bin `Amr bin Al-`As, may Allah be pleased with him, and said to him: "Tell me about the description of the Messenger of Allah in the Tawrah.'' He said, "Yes, by Allah, he was described in the Tawrah with some of the qualities with which he was described in the Qur'an: `O Prophet! Verily, We have sent you as witness, and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner, a saviour to the illiterate. You are My servant and My Messenger and I have called you Al-Mutawakkil (reliant). You are not harsh or severe, or noisy in the marketplaces. You do not repay evil with evil, but you overlook and forgive. Allah will not take your soul until you make straight those who have deviated and they say La ilaha illallah, words with which blind eyes, deaf ears and sealed hearts will be opened'.'' It was also recorded by Al-Bukhari in the Books of Business and At-Tafsir. Wahb bin Munabbih said: "Allah revealed to one of the Prophets of the Children of Israel whose name was Sha`ya' (Isaiah); `Stand up among your people the Children of Israel and I shall cause your tongue to utter (words of) revelation. I shall send an unlettered (Prophet) from among the illiterate (people). He will not be harsh or severe, or noisy in the marketplaces. If he were to pass by a lamp, it would not be extinguished, because of his tranquillity. If he were to walk on reeds no sound would be heard from under his feet. I will send him as a bearer of glad tidings and as a warner, who will never utter immoral speech. Through him I will open blind eyes, deaf ears and sealed hearts. I will guide him to do every good deed and I will bestow upon him every noble characteristic. I will make tranquillity his garment, righteousness his banner, piety his conscience, wisdom his speech, truthfulness and loyalty his nature, tolerance and goodness his character, truth his way, justice his conduct, guidance his leader, Islam his nation. Ahmad is his name and through him I will guide people after they have gone astray, teach them after they have been ignorant, raise their status after they were nothing, make them known after they were unknown, increase the number (of followers of the truth) after they have been few, make them rich after they have been poor, and bring them togther after they have been divided. Through him I will bring together different nations and hearts, and reconcile opposing desires. Through him I will save great numbers of people from their doom. I will make his Ummah the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind; they will enjoin good and forbid evil, sincerely believing in Me Alone and accepting as truth all that My Messengers have brought. I shall inspire them to glorify, praise and magnify Me Alone in their places of worship and in their gatherings, when they lie down and when they return home. They will pray to Me standing and sitting. They will fight for the sake of Allah in ranks and armies. They will go forth from their homes by the thousand, seeking My pleasure, washing their faces and limbs, girding their loins. Their sacrifice will be their blood and their holy Book will be in their hearts. They will be like monks by night and like lions by day. Among the members of his family and his offspring I will make those who are foremost (in faith) and believers in the truth and martyrs and righteous people. His Ummah after him will lead people with truth and establish justice therewith. I will give strength to those who support them and help those who pray for them, and I will inflict defeat upon those who oppose them or transgress against them or seek to take something from their hands. I will make them the heirs of their Prophet, calling people to their Lord, enjoining what is good, forbidding what is evil, establishing regular prayer, paying the Zakah and fulfilling their promises. Through them I will complete the goodness which I started with the first of them. This is My bounty which I bestow upon whomsoever I will, and I am the Possessor of great bounty.''' (as witness) means, a witness to Allah's Oneness, for there is no God except He, and a witness against mankind for their deeds on the Day of Resurrection. (and We bring you as a witness against these people) (4:41). This is like the Ayah: (that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger be a witness over you) (2:143) (and a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner.) means, a bearer of glad tidings to the believers of a great reward, and a warner to the disbelievers of a great punishment. (And as one who invites to Allah by His leave,) means, `you call mankind to worship their Lord because He has commanded you to do so. ' (and as a lamp spreading light.) means, `the Message that you bring is as clear as the sun shining brightly, and no one can deny it except those who are stubborn.' (And obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and harm them not.) means, `do not obey them and do not pay attention to what they say.' (and harm them not.) means, `overlook and ignore them, for their matter rests entirely with Allah and He is sufficient for them (to deal with them).' Allah says: (And put your trust in Allah, and sufficient is Allah as a Trustee.) (49. O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them before you have sexual intercourse with them, no `Iddah have you to count in respect of them. So, give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 3:23am On Dec 03, 2007 |
Lakpenne: Lakpenne: @ Lakpenne, i have since resolved not to get into unecessarily long and meaningless arguments on the issue of whether God is 9 or 10. Muslims are absolutely free to believe whatever they want . . . i think the central message in all these is simple - MUSLIMS SHOULD NOT TRY TO FOISTER THEIR ERRONEOUS BELIEFS ON OTHERS. Look at the above two quotes i have extracted for your benefit very carefully. First you indicate that you do not believe that the writings of the biblical prophets are authentic based on your muslim belief. . . . YET you go ahead in the very next post to claim that ALL prophets before Jesus said there is one God. If i may ask . . . who are these "ALL prophets"? The same biblical prophets whose writings you just dismissed as not authentic? Based on whose writings are you deducing the fact that ALL prophets indeed made the "one God" claims? The LOST torah and injil that allah sent? You skipped a VERY vital part of my last write-up to you. . . since allah claimed that he has perfected his word and none can change it and also claimed that he sent the torah and injil . . . it stands to reason that the biblical account that muslims claim has been corrupted (and not authentic) CANNOT be from allah. WHERE THEN IS ALLAH'S TORAH AND INJIL? Pls answer our questions so we dont keep going in a merry go round just filling space with empty words. aslan333: Aslan333 (God bless you) asked several pertinent questions in his post, i have chosen to highlight the one that most struck me. Other than the fact that your "god" is one god and you do not associate partners with him, what else can you confidently say about his nature, his dealings with you as an individual and what he has in store for you in the hereafter? Think on these things. Life is a lot more than struggling to prove that your religion is better than mine. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 3:26am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: In truth, the Qur'an speaks about the Prophets. A Gift and no (Iddah) for Women Who are divorced before Consummation of the Marriage This Ayah contains many rulings, including the use of the word Nikah for the marriage contract alone. There is no other Ayah in the Qur'an that is clearer than this on this point. It also indicates that it is permissible to divorce a woman before consummating the marriage with her. (believing women) this refers to what is usually the case, although there is no difference between a believing (Muslim) woman and a woman of the People of the Book in this regard, according to scholarly consensus. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, Sa`id bin Al-Musayyib, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, `Ali bin Al-Husayn Zayn-ul-`Abidin and a group of the Salaf took this Ayah as evidence that divorce cannot occur unless it has been preceded by marriage, because Allah says, (When you marry believing women, and then divorce them) The marriage contract here is followed by divorce, which indicates that the divorce cannot be valid if it comes first. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "If someone were to say, `every woman I marry will ipso facto be divorced,' this does not mean anything, because Allah says: (O you who believe! When you marry believing women, and then divorce them, ).'' It was also reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "Allah said, (When you marry believing women, and then divorce them.) Do you not see that divorce comes after marriage'' A Hadith to the same effect was recorded from `Amr bin Shu`ayb from his father from his grandfather, who said: "The Messenger of Allah said: (There is no divorce for the son of Adam with regard to that which he does not possess.) This was recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah. At-Tirmidhi said, "This is a Hasan Hadith, and it is the best thing that has been narrated on this matter.'' It was also recorded by Ibn Majah from `Ali and Al-Miswar bin Makhramah, may Allah be pleased with them, that the Messenger of Allah said: (There is no divorce before marriage.) (no `Iddah have you to count in respect of them.) This is a command on which the scholars are agreed, that if a woman is divorced before the marriage is consummated, she does not have to observe the `Iddah (prescribed period for divorce) and she may go and get married immediately to whomever she wishes. The only exception in this regard is a woman whose husband died, in which case she has to observe an `Iddah of four months and ten days even if the marriage was not consummated. This is also according to the consensus of the scholars. (So, give them a present, and set them free in a handsome manner.) The present here refers to something more general than half of the named dowery or a special gift that has not been named. Allah says: (And if you divorce them before you have touched (had a sexual relation with) them, and you have fixed unto them their due (dowery) then pay half of that) (2:237). And Allah says: (There is no sin on you, if you divorce women while yet you have not touched them, nor fixed unto them their due (dowery). But bestow on them gift, the rich according to his means, and the poor according to his means, a gift of reasonable amount is a duty on the doers of good.) (2:236) pIn Sahih Al-Bukhari, it was recorded that Sahl bin Sa`d and Abu Usayd, may Allah be pleased with them both, said, "The Messenger of Allah married Umaymah bint Sharahil, and when she entered upon him he reached out his hand towards her, and it was as if she did not like that, so he told Abu Usayd to give her two garments.'' `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, said "If the dowery had been named, she would not be entitled to more than half, but if the dowery is not been named, he should give her a gift according to his means, and this is the "handsome manner.'' (50. O Prophet! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their due (dowery), and those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses -- whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who migrated with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her -- a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by Nobody: 3:26am On Dec 03, 2007 |
Lakpenne: Do us all a huge favor, it is hypocritical for you to claim that our bible is fraudulent and YET continue desperately to quote from it, using its very words to dress allah up and cover up for his defficiencies in the quran. If indeed the quran is the word of "god", i would expect that WE shld be the ones borrowing from the quran and not the other way round. Here is where you copied that quote from: Ps 121: 4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep. |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 3:33am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: The Women who are Lawful for the Prophet Allah says, addressing His Prophet that He has made lawful for him of women his wives to whom he has given the dowery, which is what is meant by "their due'', which is used here, as was stated by Mujahid and others. The dowery which he gave to his wives was twelve and half `Uqiyah (measures of gold) so they all received five hundred Dirhams except for Umm Habibah bint Abi Sufyan, to whom An-Najashi, may Allah have mercy on him, gave four hundred Dinars (on behalf of the Prophet ) Safiyyah bint Huyay, whom he chose from among the prisoners of Khaybar, then he set her free, making her release her dowery. A similar case was that of Juwayriyah bint Al-Harith Al-Mustalaqiyyah -- he paid off the contract to buy her freedom from Thabit bin Qays bin Shammas and married her. May Allah be pleased with them all. (those (slaves) whom your right hand possesses whom Allah has given to you,) means, `the slave-girls whom you took from the war booty are also permitted to you.' He owned Safiyyah and Juwayriyah, then he manumitted them and married them, and he owned Rayhanah bint Sham`un An-Nadariyyah and Mariyah Al-Qibtiyyah, the mother of his son Ibrahim, upon him be peace; they were both among the prisoners, may Allah be pleased with them. (and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts) This is justice which avoids going to either extreme, for the Christians do not marry a woman unless there are seven grandfathers between the man and the woman (i.e., they are very distantly related or not at all), and the Jews allow a man to marry his brother's daughter or his sister's daughter. So the pure and perfect Shari`ah came to cancel out the extremes of the Christians, and permitted marriage to the daughter of a paternal uncle or aunt, or the daughter of a maternal uncle or aunt, and forbade the excesses of the Jews who allowed marriage to the daughter of a brother or sister which is an abhorrent thing. (and a believing woman if she offers herself to the Prophet, and the Prophet wishes to marry her -- a privilege for you only,) means, `also lawful for you, O Prophet, is a believing woman if she offers herself to you, to marry her without a dowery, if you wish to do so.' This Ayah includes two conditions. Imam Ahmad recorded from Sahl bin Sa`d As-Sa`idi that a woman came to the Messenger of Allah and said, "O Messenger of Allah, verily, I offer myself to you (for marriage).'' She stood there for a long time, then a man stood up and said, "O Messenger of Allah, marry her to me if you do not want to marry her.'' The Messenger of Allah said: (Do you have anything that you could give to her as a dowery) He said, "I have only this garment of mine.'' The Messenger of Allah said: (If you give her your garment, you will be left with no garment. Look for something.) He said, "I do not have anything.'' He said: (Look for something, even if it is only an iron ring.) So he looked, but he could not find anything. Then the Messenger of Allah said to him: (Do you have [know] anything of the Qur'an) He said, "Yes, Surah such and such and Surah and such,'' he named the Surahs. So, the Messenger of Allah said: (I marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an.) It was also recorded by (Al-Bukhari and Muslim) from the Hadith of Malik. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded a narration from his father that `A'ishah said: "The woman who offered herself to the Prophet was Khawlah bint Hakim.'' Al-Bukhari recorded that `A'ishah said, "I used to feel jealous of those women who offered themselves to the Prophet and I said, `Would a woman offer herself' When Allah revealed the Ayah: (You can postpone whom you will of them, and you may receive whom you will. And whomsoever you desire of those whom you have set aside, it is no sin on you) I said, `I see that your Lord hastens to confirm your desires.''' Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah did not have any wife who offered herself to him. '' This was recorded by Ibn Jarir. In other words, he did not accept any of those who offered themselves to him, even though they were lawful for him -- a ruling which applied to him alone. The matter was left to his own choice, as Allah says: (and [if] the Prophet wishes to marry her) meaning, if he chooses to do so. (a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers.) `Ikrimah said: "This means, it is not permissible for anyone else to marry a woman who offers herself to him; if a woman offers herself to a man, it is not permissible for him (to marry her) unless he gives her something.'' This was also the view of Mujahid, Ash-Sha`bi and others. In other words, if a woman offers herself to a man, when he consummates the marriage, he has to give her a dowery like that given to any other woman of her status, as the Messenger of Allah ruled in the case of Barwa` bint Washiq when she offered herself in marriage; the Messenger of Allah ruled that she should be given a dowery that was appropriate for a woman like her after her husband died. Death and consummation are the same with regard to the confirmation of the dowery, and the giving of a dowery appropriate to the woman's status in the case of those who offer themselves to men other than the Prophet is an established ruling. With regard to the Prophet himself, he is not obliged to give a dowery to a woman who offers herself to him, even if he consummated the marriage, because he has the right to marry without a dowery, Wali (representative) or witnesses, as we have seen in the story of Zaynab bint Jahsh, may Allah be pleased with her. Qatadah said, concerning the Ayah: (a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers.) no woman has the right to offer herself to any man without a Wali or a dowery, except to the Prophet . (Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (servants) whom their right hands possess,) Ubayy bin Ka`b, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah and Ibn Jarir said, concerning the Ayah: (Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives) means, `concerning the limiting of their number to four free women, and whatever they wish of slave-girls, and the conditions of a representative, dowery and witnesses to the marriage. This is with regard to the Ummah (the people), but We have granted an exemption in your case and have not imposed any of these obligations upon you.' (in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) (51. You can postpone whom you will of them, and you may receive whom you will. And whomsoever you desire of those whom you have set aside, it is no sin on you: that is better that they may be comforted and not grieved, and may all be pleased with what you give them. Allah knows what is in your hearts. And Allah is Ever All-Knowing, Most Forbearing.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 3:40am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: The Prophet has the Choice of either accepting or rejecting Women who offer Themselves to Him Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, used to feel jealous of the women who offered themselves to the Prophet . She said, "Would a woman not feel shy to offer herself without any dowery'' Then Allah revealed the Ayah, (You can postpone whom you will of them, and you may receive whom you will.) She said, "I think that your Lord is hastening to confirm your desire.'' We have already stated that Al-Bukhari also recorded this. This indicates that what is meant by the word: (postpone) is delay, and (whom you will of them) means, `of those who offer themselves to you.' (and you may receive whom you will.) means, `whoever you wish, you may accept, and whoever you wish, you may decline, but with regard to those whom you decline, you have the choice of going back to them later on and receiving them.' Allah says: (And whomsoever you desire of those whom you have set aside, it is no sin on you (to receive her again).) Others said that what is meant by: (You can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them,) means, `your wives: there is no sin on you if you stop dividing your time equally between them, and delay the turn of one of them and bring forward the turn of another as you wish, and you have intercourse with one and not another as you wish.' This was narrated from Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Abu Razin, `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam and others. Nevertheless, the Prophet used to divide his time between them equally, hence a group of the scholars of Fiqh among the Shafi`is and others said that equal division of time was not obligatory for him and they used this Ayah as their evidence. Al-Bukhari recorded that `A'ishah said: "The Messenger of Allah used to ask permission of us (for changing days) after this Ayah was revealed: (You can postpone whom you will of them, and you may receive whom you will. And whomsoever you desire of those whom you have set aside, it is no sin on you.)'' I (the narrator) said to her: "What did you say'' She said, "I said, `If it were up to me, I would not give preference to anyone with regard to you, O Messenger of Allah!''' This Hadith indicates that what is meant in this Hadith from `A'ishah is that it was not obligatory on him to divide his time equally between his wives. The first Hadith quoted from her implies that the Ayah was revealed concerning the women who offered themselves to him. Ibn Jarir prefered the view that the Ayah was general and applies both to the women who offered themselves to him and to the wives that he already had, and that he was given the choice whether to divide him time among them or not. This is a good opinion which reconciles between the Hadiths. Allah says: (that is better that they may be comforted and not grieved, and may all be pleased with what you give them.) meaning, `if they know that Allah has stated that there is no sin on you with regard to dividing your time. If you wish, you may divide you time and if you do not wish, you need not divide your time, there is no sin on you no matter which you do. Therefore if you divide your time between them, this will be your choice, and not a duty that is enjoined upon you, so they will feel happy because of that and will recognize your favor towards them in sharing your time equally among them and being fair to all of them.' (Allah knows what is in your hearts.) means, `He knows that you are more inclined towards some of them than others, which you cannot avoid.' Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said: "The Messenger of Allah used to divide his time between his wives fairly and treat them equally, then he said: (O Allah, I have done as much as I can with regard to what is under my control, so do not blame me for that which is under Your control and not mine.)'' It was also recorded by the four Sunan compilers. After the words "so do not blame me for that which is under Your control and not mine,'' Abu Dawud's report adds the phrase: (So do not blame me for that which is under Your control and not mine.) meaning matters of the heart. Its chain of narration is Sahih, and all the men in its chain are reliable. Then this phrase is immediately followed by the words, (And Allah is Ever All-Knowing,) i.e., of innermost secrets, (Most Forbearing.) meaning, He overlooks and forgives. (52. It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things.) |
| Re: Tawhid: The Issue Christians Avoid by olabowale(m): 4:07am On Dec 03, 2007 |
@Pilgrim.1: To resolve your issue , your cherrypicking of the Qur'an, which you do not believe and which you have no understanding. If you read through, the entries, just to disprove your unfounded charges, Qur'an had done excellent job. Your kind of people were anticipated. This in itself, is a direct proof that Qur'an, alone is adequate to and suitable to make the heart and the soul happy, even in the face of slanderer, the like which you have exhibited. The Reward of His Wives for choosing to stay with the Messenger More than one of the scholars, such as Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Ad-Dahhak, Qatadah, Ibn Zayd, Ibn Jarir and others stated that this Ayah was revealed as a reward to the wives of the Prophet expressing Allah's pleasure with them for their excellent decision in choosing Allah and His Messenger and the Home of the Hereafter, when the Messenger of Allah , gave them the choice, as we have stated above. When they chose the Messenger of Allah their reward was that Allah restricted him to these wives, and forbade him to marry anyone else or to change them for other wives, even if he was attracted by their beauty -- apart from slave-girls and prisoners of war, with regard to whom there was no sin on him. Then Allah lifted the restriction stated in this Ayah and permitted him to marry more women, but he did not marry anyone else, so that the favor of the Messenger of Allah towards them would be clear. Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah, may Allah be pleased with her, said: "The Messenger of Allah did not die until Allah permitted (marriage to other) women for him.'' It was also recorded by At-Tirmidhi and An-Nasa'i in their Sunans. On the other hand, others said that what was meant by the Ayah, (It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this,) means, `after the description We have given of the women who are lawful for you, those to whom you have given their dowery, those whom your right hand possesses, and daughters of your paternal uncles and aunts, maternal uncles and aunts, and those who offer themselves to you in marriage -- other kinds of women are not lawful for you.' This view was narrated from Ubayy bin Ka`b, from Mujahid in one report which was transmitted from him, and others. At-Tirmidhi recorded that Ibn `Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah was forbidden to marry certain kinds of women apart from believing women who had migrated with him, in the Ayah, (It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those whom your right hand possesses.) Allah has made lawful believing women, and believing women who offered themselves to the Prophet for marriage, and He made unlawful every woman who followed a religion other than Islam, as Allah says: (And whosoever disbelieves in faith, then fruitless is his work) (5:5). Ibn Jarir, may Allah have mercy on him, stated that this Ayah is general in meaning and applies to all the kinds of women mentioned and the women to whom he was married, who were nine. What he said is good, and may be what many of the Salaf meant, for many of them narrated both views from him, and there is no contradiction between the two. And Allah knows best. (nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, ) He was forbidden to marry more women, even if he were to divorce any of them and wanted replace her with another, except for those whom his right hand possessed (slave women). (53. O you who believe! Enter not the Prophet's houses, unless permission is given to you for a meal, (and then) not (so early as) to wait for its preparation. But when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken your meal, disperse without sitting for a talk. Verily, such (behavior) annoys the Prophet, and he is shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy of (telling you) the truth. And when you ask (his wives) for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen, that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. And it is not (right) for you that you should annoy Allah's Messenger, nor that you should ever marry his wives after him (his death). Verily, with Allah that shall be an enormity.) (54. Whether you reveal anything or conceal it, verily, Allah is Ever All-Knower of everything.) |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (11) (Reply)
How Many Times Did God Create The World In Genesis? / The Solemnity Of Christ The King Sunday / Avoid These Nigerian, Ghanian Pastors And Prophets
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 396 |