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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? (12851 Views)
Why Would God Kill Jesus Not The Devil? / Why Can't God Kill Satan Once And For All / Where Did Christians Get Their Concept Of Satan From ? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by tintingz(m): 9:45am On Oct 21, 2018 |
JMAN05:The perfect all-benevolent God hate evil that he will throw anyone who do evil to torment of fire for eternity yet he allowed it(evil) to exist. Can't you see the paradox? |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 11:08am On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: Okay, you consider it an inconsistency still unreconciled by what I have explained that God let Satan hurt Job. As I said in my very first response to you when I returned to this forum, I don't really think that anything I say can persuade you. I hope that it does but people don't typically reject Christ after tasting what He is about and then want to do it again. But perhaps you may. So, I'm not answering for your approval. You can agree or disagree as you please. But you should at the very least be honest in doing so or else communication becomes impossible. I have said that God left Satan to test man. When Satan came in the assembly, God, of course pointed Job out as shining proof of all that Satan had been so terribly wrong about. And Satan began to make excuses so God let him test Job so that he and the other angels could see if his excuses held any water at all. It's just like when a professor sees that explaining a point won't cut it for a student and therefore sets up a test for the student to actively learn by experience what he could have easily learned by listening. Job was attacked by Satan with God's permission, yes. Job suffered tremendous tragedies, yes. But God supplied him strength to bear it and compensated in every way necessary. The children who died could very well be in paradise at that point if they were following in their father's footsteps. That was a far better experience for them than even living in the luxury of their father's great wealth could ever get close to being. If they were in hell, however, well, they deserved it anyway. Then, at the end of that test, everything Job lost was given to him again twice over. And, here is the biggest gain: after Job endured the test and proved God right by his testimony, he has eternal rewards that infinitely surpass even the great wealth that he was given back to look forward to when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the Earth. This happens to still be what I have been saying and I haven't seen you present any part of the Bible that contradicts it so that it can be said that there is any true incoherence here. 1 Like |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by MuttleyLaff: 11:10am On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3:""You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?" - John 3:10 Jesus was always at loggerheads with the Pharisees, the religious leaders and teachers of biblical Israel Castigating them for their inadequacies, for their misplaced priorities, for not setting good examples etcetera Ihedinobi3: Ihedinobi3, I need from you, a caption for the above Relevant facts will emerge from the appropriate caption, that will explain what started this whole mess Ihedinobi3:You filled your boots well enough, and I concur 99%, so I dont think the need to clarify anything is necessary, but I'll just add this observation and a rhetorical question. Iniquity or sin was found in Satan, and same sin, was found in Adam What apart from that, as in, what prior to sin, did Satan and Adam have in common? For inquiring minds, the power of choice, is what they had in common. Have you ever wondered what is a supreme test? If you wish to prove what a celestial being and man really is, give them the power of choice test. Satan, was allowed the power to make a choice between good and evil Satan failed the stress test. Adam that came after, though was instructed to subdue, still gave in to exerted pressure and failed the stress test too Going out on a limb, I will add that Satan knew sin causes separation as in fact that's what death is, "... surely die" means, a dividing line. Still the naughtiness in Satan brought him to Eden and the rest about the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is history Wisdom and knowledge without God in the equation is very dangerous (i.e. Ezekiel 28:17 and Genesis 3:6) What I am about to type next, is not me making up, what the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil means but me sharing a few things many arent aware of about "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" In those famous verses, we all fully know about, where and/or when the "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" is used, instead of Good, the actual and original word used in the original text was "Beautiful" and instead of Evil, the actual and original word used in the original text was "Adversity" Well, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism. Merism, is a figure of speech that has a combination of two contrasting words to refer to an entirety and all parts within each of them The figure of speech "It's raining cats and dogs" though has a pair is not a merism but is a metaphor "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is a merism meaning everything other thing you can think of was created "Good evening ladies and gentlemen" is a merism as there would be tall ladies and gentlemen, short ladies and gentlemen, fat ladies and gentlemen, thin ladies and gentlemen etcetera Reiterating, the phrase "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil", as a matter of fact, actually is a merism. The Good in "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" signifies, all that's beautiful in life and the Evil in "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" signifies, all that's about adversities in life Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful" Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "adversity". Without mincing words, whoever eats of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, is going to be forced to deal with a whole gamut of beautiful and adversity Dont take my word for it, go check out the meaning of "towb" (i.e. the original word Good was translated from) and "ra" (i.e. the original word Evil was translated from) Now the niggling and persistent problem sin (i.e. miss the mark) is still there but hey, fast forward to when it all ends, there is no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things of the past are gone forever and so is sin and we can be reassured that, with no more sin, nothing will happen to chickens, when/if the fox is sent to guard the henhouse and nothing will happen to the cream/milk, when/if the cat is left to guard the cream/milk Both problems are solved. No more sin, and vacuum is replenished paxonel:As you've alluded, all problems arent necessarily caused by the devil. Sinful or sinning, from a Jewish perspective, actually means missing the mark or miss the real objective If the bridge isnt built, then it more likely was not done from missing the mark It is not sinful that these problems existed in the first place, afterall in Gen 1:28, Adam was told in a formal or official manner, to subdue the earth He was told to prevent anything harmful or unfavourable from developing from the earth paxonel:"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." - Revelation 20:10 "Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:14 Before Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:14 gets to happen, the contents of the "Situation problems" pandora box, like those which keep persisting till this day, will continue to come about until everyone has had a go at showng their true nature We would, by the end of it, after all is done, as in tasted and finished eating the "bad apple", appreciate and prefer the "good apple". Experience shapes character, and character determines action a character totally without experience is all but a contradiction in terms - excerpt from page 87, GOD - A BIOGRAPHY by Jack Miles Character, is the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual Since choice has being made to have the Knowledge of Good and Evil, now character is set into motion to be formed. You saw what I wrote above, concerning what, whoever that eats of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, is going to be forced to deal with Let me know, if I should throw more light on this comment, maybe to explain it more. cc budaatum 1 Like |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 11:39am On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: LoL. I know for people like you and like I used to be, sold on this story that God is good and thus any story to the contrary will still be reframed to fit the narrative. Exactly what you are doing now. God is good but allows innocents to be killed for a stupid bet, doesn't sound contradictory to you because you are sold on the bullshit. If we saw any parent behave this way, we'd immediately condemn them and ask the police to incarcerate them but with this silly God story, an intelligent being like you would defend the bullshit and bring up more bullshit to explain it. The Bible itself is a book of contradictions, there is nothing inspired in it that sets it apart from collective human wisdom. A book written by unsophisticated men can't anyway. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 12:41pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: I read the text and you quoted it here. There was no bet. I'm bothering to state that now because you have kept harping on it probably so that you can make a new debate out of it. In my experience with atheists especially on this forum, it is how red herrings are continually getting thrown into the discussion to lead it in all kinds of directions so that in the end it is a waste of energy and spectators are thoroughly confused about what really happened. If you want to believe that God had a bet with Satan, feel free to, but the Bible says no such thing. Next, there are no innocents among men. There haven't been since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden. About the contradictions, I have asked you directly a bunch of times now where you find any and I still haven't seen one produced by you. I get that you want to believe that the Bible has no force in its words, so do believe it. But if you want to justify your belief to yourself or recommend it to anyone, you need to provide proof. Where is the contradiction here? |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 12:54pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
MuttleyLaff, I'm very happy to see that you agree with me as much as you do. Needless to say, I believe that you are right that our Lord set an example for us in how He took the Pharisees to task. I also believe that we should not go looking for trouble as we don't see evidence in the Bible that He ever did with the Pharisees. So, while there are times when I will challenge, rebuke or basically denounce a teacher for bad teaching and behavior, I try to avoid provoking them if I can. About the caption, you requested, I'm afraid I'm not that good at captions. LOL. I just saw a mad rush waiting to happen. And I have the vaguest understanding of its application to the issue. Perhaps you could explain to me? About the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, I believe you have a point. However, I learned from my own teacher that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience. Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect there. They only had one rule: don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was pretty straightforward. Not complex at all, so all the work their conscience had to do was remind them not to eat the fruit from that one tree. However, once they disobeyed God, they could no longer live in His Presence. That meant that they would have to have some way of dealing with Satan's assaults upon them outside of the Garden. They would need a much expanded conscience to appreciate right and wrong outside of fellowship with God or else the human race simply wouldn't survive (witness Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain). The fruit provided that to them. Once they ate it, they became cognizant of good and evil (Gen 3:22) and that was also how they knew they were in serious trouble when the Lord came to "hang out" with them (Gen 3:8-11). |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 1:12pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: No matter how much I point it out to you it won't gain any traction for you because you are ever ready to be cognitively dissonant. Look at you saying there are no innocents because you must justify the deaths of 10 people who had nothing to do with the righteousness of Job, that the discussion between satan and God did not constitute a wager, lol. Dude you are sold hook line and sinker so don't worry continue believing your fairytale even its been shown that the whole thing is a concoction of ignorant middle easterners. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 1:20pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: Good. We're on the same page now. I consider atheism cognitively dissonant. Therefore I can never see the sense in atheistic arguments. It only follows that you being an atheist will see Christianity the same way. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 1:29pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: What is dissonant about saying show me incontrovertible evidence for God? What is dissonant about rejecting the writings of ignorant middle easterners? |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by DoctorAlien(m): 2:05pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
tintingz: Perhaps the fact that He is not a tyrant, and that the perception which His conscientious creatures have of Him matters so much to Him explains it? I do not claim to know all of GOD's ways. Indeed, as high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His ways and reason higher than mine. He is not bound to any higher law. No authority is higher than Him. But still His own Law which is a reflection of His character, He never breaks nor goes against. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by DoctorAlien(m): 2:07pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
JMAN05: I don't think so. Which part of my comment? |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 2:26pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: Really, what do you expect me to answer you here, LordReed? Is there any answer I can give you from the Christian perspective that will suit you? I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ about Whom all the Bible speaks. You are violently opposed to the Bible. How do you expect me to tell you what is dissonant about your opposition that will in any way appeal to you? |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by theoriginalgood: 3:16pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
You want to know why God didn’t kill Satan from the onset? Because he simply couldn’t. Shock? In our world today, it is obvious that “bad” exists. There is a battle between good and bad. The winner of this battle is obvious. Good will win, it’s just a matter of time. Goodness should have won at the origin, but it is clear that “bad” actually has some power. This power is what is keeping Satan alive. Now even you the curious, want to know something? The only way you will not end up in hell is if you are God Himself. See Mark 10:18. This is why people die. Some do “good” things and are even called good samaritans or whatever. The reality is that all humanity is bad. This large number of bad beings carries a heavy weight that is preventing God from deleting bad from existence. It’s harsh but that’s the reality. You think God’s work is complete? Not yet. John 8:32 |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by tintingz(m): 3:29pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
DoctorAlien:- So if God so hate evil that he can throw people inside hell for it, why did he allow evil to exist? - I sighted God killing homos in Sodom and Gomorrah, if the ominipotent all-knowing God so hate homosexuality and he knows such thing will happen beforehand, why can't he prevent homosexuality from existing, why Is he angry when he already knows? - is God not a tyrant since he's the creator of evil or where did evil come from? 1 Like |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by DopeTech(m): 3:29pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Holuwahphemy: |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by orunto27: 4:40pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
That we may learn the Difference between Light & Darkness; Good & Bad; Life & Death; Faith & Forget; Hope & Abandon; Peace & Worry; Love & Hate. And finally, God was preparing us to know the Difference between first Adam and his Disobedience streaks and The Second Adam, Jesus Christ, The Righteous. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 5:19pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: It doesn't have to appeal to me, it just has to be true. The bible is a book written by men is true, it is full of inconsistencies is true. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by theoriginalgood: 5:22pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Holuwahphemy: Actually, this question is what mankind needs. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 5:28pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: That is wishful thinking on your part, LordReed. The truth of it means absolutely nothing to you. The proof of that is in all the routine dismissal of every argument I have presented. Can you actually articulate any actual counterargument you have made to any of the arguments I have offered? Beyond calling me a liar who makes up stories to fill in plot holes and pronouncing the Bible useless or filled with lies, have you actually made any arguments here? Right here, you have pronounced it a truth that the Bible is filled of inconsistencies. But how many times have I asked you to demonstrate such an inconsistency and how many times have you obliged? It's a waste of time debating with atheists in my experience. I will explain every question about the Bible whether you accept my explanation or not but I won't bother legitimizing my position to you or even examining the atheistic worldview. You couldn't care less whether there Bible is true. You can't even abide that as a possibility. And I certainly have no patience for a worldview that rejects what appears painfully obvious to me. 1 Like |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by theoriginalgood: 5:44pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
tintingz: Your first question should trigger your own personal common sense to give you the right answer. How the hell can a perfect good God allow evil to exist? He simply would never. The pathetic truth is that there is power in evil. This is why bad exists and God hasn’t deleted it from existence. Evil forced itself into existence, but God will wipe it away as soon as he can. God is not the creator of evil. God is only good and therefore can only create good things. Obviously. So where is evil from? Evil was birthed by man and not God. Christianity may be confusing at times, but Mark 10:18 is the truth that will set you free. Humanity is actually evil. This is why people die someday for different reasons. Only Good God lives forever. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 5:46pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: LoL I entertained the possibility for 35+ that the bible was true so tell me something I don't know. I have read the bible and studied it more than I wish I did. I have slept and woken on my knees studying the bible so I am very familiar with its inconsistencies. At the time, like you I chose to defend its bullshit because I was sold on it. Without a need to defend the bullshit, it falls apart so quickly it makes the head spin. The indoctrination that tells you the atheistic worldview is demonic will keep you chained to the bullshit of the bible so it doesn't surprise me. But knowing there are no gods or devils means that indoctrination loses its hold on me. What is painfully obvious is the captivity is sold to you and you buy it hook line and sinker. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 6:03pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed:I also read the Bible a long time (my whole life, in fact) before I was able to understand what it had to say and when I was, it was because someone taught me. Your familiarity with its inconsistencies remains to be seen. LordReed:I hadn't characterized it as demonic but it is an apt description. Good for you. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by theoriginalgood: 6:05pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: Atheists are silly. How the hell did everything get here? Can’t you see it’s all very organized? From the beginning up till now, how can you explain nature and all that life entails? There is obviously a good God working behind the scenes. Atheists to me are obviously bad and against God. If you still have your bible, go read Mark 10:18. That will tell you your place in existence. It’s only a matter of time before all humanity experiences death. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 6:20pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
theoriginalgood: And you are just dumb. Hey dumbass the bible means nothing to me so how about you tell me something real. Your rubbish prophecy has been around for 2000+ years so go and scare some goat herders with that shit. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 6:28pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: LoL! I pointed out a few but all you did was bring up some more elaborate bullshit to explain the bullshit so there is no point in doing it with you. Every time I encounter Christians these days I just can't stop laughing and the delusional bullshit they say. Demonic my arse. LMAO! |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by theoriginalgood: 6:52pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: I like that. You want something real. I’m not trying to scare you but do you think you’re going to live forever? Do you know why you won’t live forever but God will? See Mark 10:18. The fact that the Bible means nothing to you doesn’t really matter here. All humanity will die eventually because no one is truly good. You think good people are supposed to die? |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 7:10pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
theoriginalgood: You are just delusional. Its right there in the stupid book that this generation shall not pass but here we are thousands of years later and dumbasses like you still believe it is going to come to pass. Even Paul thought it was imminent LoL. Paul is dead for thousands of years and it still hasn't come to pass. Please tell me something real not fairytales. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 8:57pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: Your first paragraph is a shining example of what I was talking about. Your preferred counterargument has been "you bring more elaborate bullshit to justify bullshit". And you continue claiming that there is incoherence in the Bible. Look at what you offer as proof of that and tell me what you have actually accomplished in the conversation. "Demonic" was your word. I just concurred. As far as being delusional goes, it's us being delusional, is it not, LordReed? Why does the insanity of a mad man bother you so much that you keep hunting us for debates? What harm have we done to you? There is no possibility of agreement between me and you, LordReed, not as long as you are an atheist. I don't begrudge you your choice of worldviews. Don't begrudge me mine. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 9:12pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: In all our encounters so far, you are the one who sought to explain stuff to me so I don't know where you got your seeking debate narrative from. Your delusions don't bother me, they provide entertainment. As long as you don't actively seek the hurt of others I really don't care what you believe so don't think I am trying to convert you. I am very content to simply laugh at whatever fairytale position you want to advance as I am under no obligation to preach to you. You can stop attempting to explain bullshit to me if you don't want hear me 'begrudge' you. 1 Like |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by Ihedinobi3: 9:38pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: I'll concede that I have been the initiator of discussions but each time it was because you were meddling with the Bible. In the first instance, you challenged something Jesus said and I answered it. The second time here, a believer asked a question and I answered and you and other atheists began to meddle again. Whenever that happens, I answer you for the sake of other believers, not because I feel that correcting you is possible. I think you should be wary of such a taste in your entertainment choices. There was a time that believers were thrown to lions and burned at stakes because it entertained unbelievers. I don't see that much of a distance from mocking someone's choice of beliefs to actually making sport of killing them or torturing them for it. 1 Like |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by LordReed(m): 9:44pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
Ihedinobi3: The day you catch me advocating for believers to be killed by any means or tortured for entertainment say it and I'll never comment online about believers again. Meanwhile my entertainment choices are mine, I don't need any sanctimonious lecture on how to choose what I like. I will also continue to laugh at any brain dead Christian opinion or bible commentary, shut your eyes if it is too painful to read. I won't censor my humour for you. |
Re: Why Didnt God Kill Satan From The Onset? by frank317: 10:17pm On Oct 21, 2018 |
LordReed: The fact that he thinks those explanations of his are good enough reason as to why God allow the devil to continue to torment man for ages is what bothers me. God trying to prove a point to devil and his other creations... The same devil he asked to go and torture Job his beloved son. How does he expect to get away so easily by explaining it like it was good the Jobs sons were killed by the devil on Gods watch. Yet this whole God thing is all in his head... Never has he seen either devil nor God... But he is able to explain their actions and intent like they are his next door neighbors. This is the same human that would find it difficult to explain some of the behaviours of his roommate or even wife. 1 Like |
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