JMAN05:


Sorry, but I don't see the logic of these questions.

The perfect all-benevolent God hate evil that he will throw anyone who do evil to torment of fire for eternity yet he allowed it(evil) to exist.

Can't you see the paradox?

LordReed:


That is exactly what I am pointing out to you. It is incoherent and inconsistent within the very things you assert. God is good but decides that the 10 of Job's children should be killed and at least another 150 people should die all by the hand of his enemy because of a stupid bet. There's nothing in this stupid tale that distinguishes it from those of Zeus and his merry band of gods, all of them doing foolish human things. Simply because of course the writers, unsophisticated as they were, could not think of any way a truly transcendent being would behave. So they intersperse claims of magic and miracles with the very human like behaviours of this supposed god and devil. Its like reading the fantasies of a JS1 student, coherent within his limited experience, a very limited experience indeed and then magic for any hard problems he couldn't think himself out of.

Okay, you consider it an inconsistency still unreconciled by what I have explained that God let Satan hurt Job.

As I said in my very first response to you when I returned to this forum, I don't really think that anything I say can persuade you. I hope that it does but people don't typically reject Christ after tasting what He is about and then want to do it again. But perhaps you may.

So, I'm not answering for your approval. You can agree or disagree as you please. But you should at the very least be honest in doing so or else communication becomes impossible.

I have said that God left Satan to test man. When Satan came in the assembly, God, of course pointed Job out as shining proof of all that Satan had been so terribly wrong about. And Satan began to make excuses so God let him test Job so that he and the other angels could see if his excuses held any water at all. It's just like when a professor sees that explaining a point won't cut it for a student and therefore sets up a test for the student to actively learn by experience what he could have easily learned by listening.

Job was attacked by Satan with God's permission, yes. Job suffered tremendous tragedies, yes. But God supplied him strength to bear it and compensated in every way necessary. The children who died could very well be in paradise at that point if they were following in their father's footsteps. That was a far better experience for them than even living in the luxury of their father's great wealth could ever get close to being. If they were in hell, however, well, they deserved it anyway. Then, at the end of that test, everything Job lost was given to him again twice over.

And, here is the biggest gain: after Job endured the test and proved God right by his testimony, he has eternal rewards that infinitely surpass even the great wealth that he was given back to look forward to when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the Earth.

This happens to still be what I have been saying and I haven't seen you present any part of the Bible that contradicts it so that it can be said that there is any true incoherence here.

Ihedinobi3:
I agree.
As I said elsewhere, however, it is unfortunate that a teacher should do as this one did. Bible teachers are guides.
Without the gift and adequate preparation, we are apt to become like the Pharisees and really damage those who listen to us.
This is why I don't cut such people much slack.

""You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus,
"and do you not understand these things?"
- John 3:10

Jesus was always at loggerheads with the Pharisees, the religious leaders and teachers of biblical Israel
Castigating them for their inadequacies, for their misplaced priorities, for not setting good examples etcetera

Ihedinobi3:
Excellent. This is very good.

You already know my position on this. I'll just try to explain it from the angle that you mooted here.

As you said, God is solving a problem using man as the tool. And you were right that the two problems are sin and replacement.

So, let's go back to before creation started, for want of a better expression.

God wanted an eternal family to share Himself with. This is what we know from the Bible.
And we also know that He did not want people who submitted to Him perforce, that is, by default.
They had to be conscious in their choice to love and serve the Lord God.

This is why He created angels and later men with free will.

However, even before He created anything He knew exactly what was going to happen.
He knew of the rebellion and He prepared a way to heal His Creation after it happened.
That way was the Lord Jesus Christ and He was going to become Man in order to do this.

Now, when angels were created, imagine that God was not going to provoke the rebellion.
He was only going to give the angels an opportunity to be that Family if they wanted.
But remember that everything God does is perfect and precise.
The angels were a fixed number in multitude. They weren't created at random. There was a perfect number of them.
And God is such that even the loss of one would make the whole less than perfect.

Now, the angels carried on like they were supposed to for we-don't-know-how-long until Satan got it into his head that he could become God and get away with it.

Satan is a creature and it is pertinent to point out that because the angels were not supposed to rebel,
they were created with near-perfect knowledge of all things and great power. But they were still creatures.
However, it is important to point out that because of the extent of their knowledge and their power,
the angels did not make revocable decisions about anything. Once, their mind was made up on pursuing a given course of action, there was no possibility of repentance. This is going to be important later.

Satan was the wisest of these awesome creatures and the most powerful too.
And he forgot that as great as he was, he was still just a creature.
He had not even begun to plumb the surface of God's Power but he gave himself over to the lie that he could outwit God.
That was what started this whole mess.

Ihedinobi3, I need from you, a caption for the above
Relevant facts will emerge from the appropriate caption, that will explain what started this whole mess

Ihedinobi3:
I have already stated what he wanted and what he used to deceive his fellow angels into backing him up in another post.

The important point here is that one of the lies he told the other angels was that God's Hands would be tied by their rebellion.
God wouldn't be able to punish them without violating the perfection of His Creation.
If you remember the parable of the lost coin or of the prodigal son, you will appreciate why Satan thought they could get away with their rebellion.

Until they sinned, there was no known punishment for sin for the obvious reason that there was no sin to punish and they were created perfect in a most enjoyable, perfect universe.
So, they really did not know what God could do to punish sin. But they did know that God was powerful enough to do something.

How sin works is through arrogance. The sinner thinks that they can exploit some "hole in the knowledge", that is, some loophole.
Because they had never seen God punish sin and because they knew that God only creates perfection,
they ignored that He was God and could do things they had never seen and even use imperfection to work perfection.

Satan thought in the same way that you often find atheists thinking now, that God can be boxed into a corner with a contradiction.
In the case of that rebellion, the thought was that He couldn't be both merciful and just. If He meted out justice, it would ruin His Creation.
If He was merciful, they would never repent and therefore He must tolerate their rebellion and give up His Place as Ruler of Creation.

We know that things did not work out that way.

God let each angel have his opportunity, ample opportunity in fact to decide what side they wanted to be on.

Once everyone had made their irrevocable choices, He destroyed that universe with water.

This is where we find things in Gen 1:2.

After that Judgment, God put the next phase of His Plan into action. The universe was reclaimed from the water and remade to support physical life again. This was so that God could create Man through whom God was going to refute all of Satan's lies during his campaigning among the angels.

So, you can see that you are right that Man was created to answer the problem of sin.

Man was made with much more limited knowledge and considerably less power and ability than the angels.
This makes it possible for us to repent our actions, to change our minds as our knowledge improves or deteriorates.

This ability to change our minds is how God demonstrates to the angels that if Satan or any of the other angels were willing to repent, He could save them too. Man sinned, just like the angels had done, (and, in fact, Satan's temptation of Eve was a deliberate effort to try to kill them because God had said that if they sinned they would die. If they died then they and their offspring couldn't replace the rebellious angels.) but God prepared a way to save them from the Death that was due to them if any of them repented.
This proves that God has the ability to reconcile His Mercy and His Justice.
He did that in the Lord Jesus Christ by giving up His One and Only Son to die the eternal Death that is due to sin so that we don't have to die anymore.

Now, as human beings repent of their rebellion everyday and put their trust in Jesus Christ, God gets replacements for Satan and the fallen angels.

So, again, your submission that it is about filling up the vacuum left by renegades is proved correct.

In Man, and more specifically the Church, God demonstrates to the angels - especially the elect ones who are so involved in our business of Faith, defending us against the rebel angels who would annihilate us in a heartbeat given the chance, and observing us before the Throne of God in Heaven - that His is all the Wisdom and all the Power and all the Glory and that His Love is larger than creation can plumb or measure in any way.
Let me know if you need anything clarified.

You filled your boots well enough, and I concur 99%,
so I dont think the need to clarify anything is necessary,
but I'll just add this observation and a rhetorical question.

Iniquity or sin was found in Satan, and same sin, was found in Adam
What apart from that, as in, what prior to sin, did Satan and Adam have in common?
For inquiring minds, the power of choice, is what they had in common.

Have you ever wondered what is a supreme test?
If you wish to prove what a celestial being and man really is, give them the power of choice test.

Satan, was allowed the power to make a choice between good and evil
Satan failed the stress test.
Adam that came after, though was instructed to subdue, still gave in to exerted pressure and failed the stress test too

Going out on a limb, I will add that Satan knew sin causes separation
as in fact that's what death is, "... surely die" means, a dividing line.
Still the naughtiness in Satan brought him to Eden
and the rest about the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is history

Wisdom and knowledge without God in the equation is very dangerous (i.e. Ezekiel 28:17 and Genesis 3:6)

What I am about to type next, is not me making up, what the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil means
but me sharing a few things many arent aware of about "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil"

In those famous verses, we all fully know about, where and/or when the "the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" is used,
instead of Good, the actual and original word used in the original text was "Beautiful"
and instead of Evil, the actual and original word used in the original text was "Adversity"

Well, the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil figure of speech, is a merism.

Merism, is a figure of speech that has a combination of two contrasting words to refer to an entirety and all parts within each of them
The figure of speech "It's raining cats and dogs" though has a pair is not a merism but is a metaphor

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is a merism
meaning everything other thing you can think of was created
"Good evening ladies and gentlemen" is a merism
as there would be tall ladies and gentlemen, short ladies and gentlemen, fat ladies and gentlemen, thin ladies and gentlemen etcetera

Reiterating, the phrase "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil", as a matter of fact, actually is a merism.

The Good in "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" signifies, all that's beautiful in life
and the Evil in "the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" signifies, all that's about adversities in life

Good, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "Beautiful"
Evil, in that context, is translated from a word, that means and typifies "adversity".

Without mincing words, whoever eats of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil,
is going to be forced to deal with a whole gamut of beautiful and adversity

Dont take my word for it, go check out the meaning of "towb" (i.e. the original word Good was translated from)
and "ra" (i.e. the original word Evil was translated from)

Now the niggling and persistent problem sin (i.e. miss the mark) is still there
but hey, fast forward to when it all ends, there is no more death or sorrow or crying or pain.

All these things of the past are gone forever and so is sin
and we can be reassured that, with no more sin, nothing will happen to chickens, when/if the fox is sent to guard the henhouse
and nothing will happen to the cream/milk, when/if the cat is left to guard the cream/milk

Both problems are solved.
No more sin, and vacuum is replenished

---

---

paxonel:
you are very on point.

I have imagined what would have become of the brain which was meant for solutions to problems if there were no natural and artificial problems doctored by the devil himself

Will all the investment of the brain and inventive capacity of humans become a big waste if there were no devil creating problems?

Necesssity is the mother of invention.

But then again i asked:
Are all problems caused by the devil?

If there are rivers to cross somewhere that is a situation problem like you said, which requires building of bridges, is the problem caused by the devil?

If these kind of problems existed before the devil started alluring Adam and Eve to commit sin,
was it sinful or not that these problems existed in the first place?

As you've alluded, all problems arent necessarily caused by the devil.
Sinful or sinning, from a Jewish perspective, actually means missing the mark or miss the real objective
If the bridge isnt built, then it more likely was not done from missing the mark

It is not sinful that these problems existed in the first place,
afterall in Gen 1:28, Adam was told in a formal or official manner, to subdue the earth
He was told to prevent anything harmful or unfavourable from developing from the earth

paxonel:
We all know that christ have solved the problem of sin which is death, created by the fall of Adam

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

but that did not stop situation problems like these which keep persisting till this day.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
- Revelation 20:10

"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death—the lake of fire."
- Revelation 20:14

Before Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:14 gets to happen, the contents of the "Situation problems" pandora box, like those which keep persisting till this day, will continue to come about until everyone has had a go at showng their true nature
We would, by the end of it, after all is done, as in tasted and finished eating the "bad apple", appreciate and prefer the "good apple".

Experience shapes character, and character determines action
a character totally without experience is all but a contradiction in terms
- excerpt from page 87, GOD - A BIOGRAPHY by Jack Miles

Character, is the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual
Since choice has being made to have the Knowledge of Good and Evil, now character is set into motion to be formed.

You saw what I wrote above,
concerning what, whoever that eats of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, is going to be forced to deal with
Let me know, if I should throw more light on this comment, maybe to explain it more.
cc budaatum

Ihedinobi3:


Okay, you consider it an inconsistency still unreconciled by what I have explained that God let Satan hurt Job.

As I said in my very first response to you when I returned to this forum, I don't really think that anything I say can persuade you. I hope that it doesn't but people don't typically reject Christ after tasting what He is about and then want to do it again. But perhaps you may.

So, I'm not answering for your approval. You can agree or disagree as you please. But you should at the very least be honest in doing so or else communication becomes impossible.

I have said that God left Satan to test man. When Satan came in the assembly, God, of course pointed Job out as shining proof of all that Satan had been so terribly wrong about. And Satan began to make excuses so God let him test Job so that he and the other angels could see if his excuses held any water at all. It's just like when a professor sees that explaining a point won't cut it for a student and therefore sets up a test for the student to actively learn by experience what he could have easily learned by listening.

Job was attacked by Satan with God's permission, yes. Job suffered tremendous tragedies, yes. But God supplied him strength to bear it and compensated in every way necessary. The children who died could very well be in paradise at that point if they were following in their father's footsteps. That was a far better experience for them than even living in the luxury of their father's great wealth could ever get close to being. If they were in hell, however, well, they deserved it anyway. Then, at the end of that test, everything Job lost was given to him again twice over.

And, here is the biggest gain: after Job endured the test and proved God right by his testimony, he has eternal rewards that infinitely surpass even the great wealth that he was given back to look forward to when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the Earth.

This happens to still be what I have been saying and I haven't seen you present any part of the Bible that contradicts it so that it can be said that there is any true incoherence here.

LoL. I know for people like you and like I used to be, sold on this story that God is good and thus any story to the contrary will still be reframed to fit the narrative. Exactly what you are doing now. God is good but allows innocents to be killed for a stupid bet, doesn't sound contradictory to you because you are sold on the bullshit. If we saw any parent behave this way, we'd immediately condemn them and ask the police to incarcerate them but with this silly God story, an intelligent being like you would defend the bullshit and bring up more bullshit to explain it.

The Bible itself is a book of contradictions, there is nothing inspired in it that sets it apart from collective human wisdom. A book written by unsophisticated men can't anyway.

LordReed:


LoL. I know for people like you and like I used to be, sold on this story that God is good and thus any story to the contrary will still be reframed to fit the narrative. Exactly what you are doing now. God is good but allows innocents to be killed for a stupid bet, doesn't sound contradictory to you because you are sold on the bullshit. If we saw any parent behave this way, we'd immediately condemn them and ask the police to incarcerate them but with this silly God story, an intelligent being like you would defend the bullshit and bring up more bullshit to explain it.

The Bible itself is a book of contradictions, there is nothing inspired in it that sets it apart from collective human wisdom. A book written by unsophisticated men can't anyway.

I read the text and you quoted it here. There was no bet. I'm bothering to state that now because you have kept harping on it probably so that you can make a new debate out of it. In my experience with atheists especially on this forum, it is how red herrings are continually getting thrown into the discussion to lead it in all kinds of directions so that in the end it is a waste of energy and spectators are thoroughly confused about what really happened.

If you want to believe that God had a bet with Satan, feel free to, but the Bible says no such thing.

Next, there are no innocents among men. There haven't been since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden.

About the contradictions, I have asked you directly a bunch of times now where you find any and I still haven't seen one produced by you. I get that you want to believe that the Bible has no force in its words, so do believe it. But if you want to justify your belief to yourself or recommend it to anyone, you need to provide proof. Where is the contradiction here?

MuttleyLaff, I'm very happy to see that you agree with me as much as you do. Needless to say, I believe that you are right that our Lord set an example for us in how He took the Pharisees to task. I also believe that we should not go looking for trouble as we don't see evidence in the Bible that He ever did with the Pharisees. So, while there are times when I will challenge, rebuke or basically denounce a teacher for bad teaching and behavior, I try to avoid provoking them if I can.

About the caption, you requested, I'm afraid I'm not that good at captions. LOL. I just saw a mad rush waiting to happen. And I have the vaguest understanding of its application to the issue. Perhaps you could explain to me?

About the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, I believe you have a point. However, I learned from my own teacher that it was through that fruit that we received an expanded conscience.

Adam and Eve did not need to know about good and evil in the Garden since everything was perfect there. They only had one rule: don't eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That was pretty straightforward. Not complex at all, so all the work their conscience had to do was remind them not to eat the fruit from that one tree.

However, once they disobeyed God, they could no longer live in His Presence. That meant that they would have to have some way of dealing with Satan's assaults upon them outside of the Garden. They would need a much expanded conscience to appreciate right and wrong outside of fellowship with God or else the human race simply wouldn't survive (witness Abel's murder at the hands of his brother Cain). The fruit provided that to them.

Once they ate it, they became cognizant of good and evil (Gen 3:22) and that was also how they knew they were in serious trouble when the Lord came to "hang out" with them (Gen 3:8-11).

Ihedinobi3:


I read the text and you quoted it here. There was no bet. I'm bothering to state that now because you have kept harping on it probably so that you can make a new debate out of it. In my experience with atheists especially on this forum, it is how red herrings are continually getting thrown into the discussion to lead it in all kinds of directions so that in the end it is a waste of energy and spectators are thoroughly confused about what really happened.

If you want to believe that God had a bet with Satan, feel free to, but the Bible says no such thing.

Next, there are no innocents among men. There haven't been since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden.

About the contradictions, I have asked you directly a bunch of times now where you find any and I still haven't seen one produced by you. I get that you want to believe that the Bible has no force in its words, so do believe it. But if you want to justify your belief to yourself or recommend it to anyone, you need to provide proof. Where is the contradiction here?

No matter how much I point it out to you it won't gain any traction for you because you are ever ready to be cognitively dissonant. Look at you saying there are no innocents because you must justify the deaths of 10 people who had nothing to do with the righteousness of Job, that the discussion between satan and God did not constitute a wager, lol. Dude you are sold hook line and sinker so don't worry continue believing your fairytale even its been shown that the whole thing is a concoction of ignorant middle easterners.

LordReed:


No matter how much I point it out to you it won't gain any traction for you because you are ever ready to be cognitively dissonant. Look at you saying there are no innocents because you must justify the deaths of 10 people who had nothing to do with the righteousness of Job, that the discussion between satan and God did not constitute a wager, lol. Dude you are sold hook line and sinker so don't worry continue believing your fairytale even its been shown that the whole thing is a concoction of ignorant middle easterners.

Good. We're on the same page now. I consider atheism cognitively dissonant. Therefore I can never see the sense in atheistic arguments. It only follows that you being an atheist will see Christianity the same way.

Ihedinobi3:


Good. We're on the same page now. I consider atheism cognitively dissonant. Therefore I can never see the sense in atheistic arguments. It only follows that you being an atheist will see Christianity the same way.

What is dissonant about saying show me incontrovertible evidence for God? What is dissonant about rejecting the writings of ignorant middle easterners?

tintingz:
If God is every law and the highest authority why then he's worried about Satan's charges or anyone's charges?

He's kind of bound to a law.

Perhaps the fact that He is not a tyrant, and that the perception which His conscientious creatures have of Him matters so much to Him explains it? I do not claim to know all of GOD's ways. Indeed, as high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His ways and reason higher than mine.

He is not bound to any higher law. No authority is higher than Him. But still His own Law which is a reflection of His character, He never breaks nor goes against.

JMAN05:


Your comment seem to suggest that Satan had been cast down immediately he turned Adam and Eve to sin?

I don't think so. Which part of my comment?

LordReed:


What is dissonant about saying show me incontrovertible evidence for God? What is dissonant about rejecting the writings of ignorant middle easterners?

Really, what do you expect me to answer you here, LordReed? Is there any answer I can give you from the Christian perspective that will suit you?

I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ about Whom all the Bible speaks. You are violently opposed to the Bible. How do you expect me to tell you what is dissonant about your opposition that will in any way appeal to you?

You want to know why God didn’t kill Satan from the onset? Because he simply couldn’t. Shock?

In our world today, it is obvious that “bad” exists. There is a battle between good and bad. The winner of this battle is obvious. Good will win, it’s just a matter of time. Goodness should have won at the origin, but it is clear that “bad” actually has some power. This power is what is keeping Satan alive.

Now even you the curious, want to know something? The only way you will not end up in hell is if you are God Himself. See Mark 10:18.

This is why people die. Some do “good” things and are even called good samaritans or whatever. The reality is that all humanity is bad. This large number of bad beings carries a heavy weight that is preventing God from deleting bad from existence. It’s harsh but that’s the reality. You think God’s work is complete? Not yet.

John 8:32

DoctorAlien:


Perhaps the fact that He is not a tyrant, and that the perception which His conscientious creatures have of Him matters so much to Him explains it? I do not claim to know all of GOD's ways. Indeed, as high as the heavens are above the earth, so are His ways and reason higher than mine.

He is not bound to any higher law. No authority is higher than Him. But still His own Law which is a reflection of His character, He never breaks nor goes against.

- So if God so hate evil that he can throw people inside hell for it, why did he allow evil to exist?

- I sighted God killing homos in Sodom and Gomorrah, if the ominipotent all-knowing God so hate homosexuality and he knows such thing will happen beforehand, why can't he prevent homosexuality from existing, why Is he angry when he already knows?

- is God not a tyrant since he's the creator of evil or where did evil come from?

Holuwahphemy:
See question oh... Oga leave nairaland go ask Google jhor

That we may learn the Difference between Light & Darkness; Good & Bad; Life & Death; Faith & Forget; Hope & Abandon; Peace & Worry; Love & Hate.
And finally, God was preparing us to know the Difference between first Adam and his Disobedience streaks and The Second Adam, Jesus Christ, The Righteous.

Ihedinobi3:


Really, what do you expect me to answer you here, LordReed? Is there any answer I can give you from the Christian perspective that will suit you?

I am a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ about Whom all the Bible speaks. You are violently opposed to the Bible. How do you expect me to tell you what is dissonant about your opposition that will in any way appeal to you?

It doesn't have to appeal to me, it just has to be true. The bible is a book written by men is true, it is full of inconsistencies is true.

Holuwahphemy:
See question oh... Oga leave nairaland go ask Google jhor

Actually, this question is what mankind needs.

LordReed:


It doesn't have to appeal to me, it just has to be true. The bible is a book written by men is true, it is full of inconsistencies is true.

That is wishful thinking on your part, LordReed. The truth of it means absolutely nothing to you.

The proof of that is in all the routine dismissal of every argument I have presented. Can you actually articulate any actual counterargument you have made to any of the arguments I have offered? Beyond calling me a liar who makes up stories to fill in plot holes and pronouncing the Bible useless or filled with lies, have you actually made any arguments here?

Right here, you have pronounced it a truth that the Bible is filled of inconsistencies. But how many times have I asked you to demonstrate such an inconsistency and how many times have you obliged?

It's a waste of time debating with atheists in my experience. I will explain every question about the Bible whether you accept my explanation or not but I won't bother legitimizing my position to you or even examining the atheistic worldview. You couldn't care less whether there Bible is true. You can't even abide that as a possibility. And I certainly have no patience for a worldview that rejects what appears painfully obvious to me.

tintingz:
- So if God so hate evil that he can throw people inside hell for it, why did he allow evil to exist?

- I sighted God killing homos in Sodom and Gomorrah, if the ominipotent all-knowing God so hate homosexuality and he knows such thing will happen beforehand, why can't he prevent homosexuality from existing, why Is he angry when he already knows?

- is God not a tyrant since he's the creator of evil or where did evil come from?

Your first question should trigger your own personal common sense to give you the right answer. How the hell can a perfect good God allow evil to exist? He simply would never. The pathetic truth is that there is power in evil. This is why bad exists and God hasn’t deleted it from existence. Evil forced itself into existence, but God will wipe it away as soon as he can.

God is not the creator of evil. God is only good and therefore can only create good things. Obviously. So where is evil from? Evil was birthed by man and not God. Christianity may be confusing at times, but Mark 10:18 is the truth that will set you free. Humanity is actually evil. This is why people die someday for different reasons. Only Good God lives forever.

Ihedinobi3:


That is wishful thinking on your part, LordReed. The truth of it means absolutely nothing to you.

The proof of that is in all the routine dismissal of every argument I have presented. Can you actually articulate any actual counterargument you have made to any of the arguments I have offered? Beyond calling me a liar who makes up stories to fill in plot holes and pronouncing the Bible useless or filled with lies, have you actually made any arguments here?

Right here, you have pronounced it a truth that the Bible is filled of inconsistencies. But how many times have I asked you to demonstrate such an inconsistency and how many times have you obliged?

It's a waste of time debating with atheists in my experience. I will explain every question about the Bible whether you accept my explanation or not but I won't bother legitimizing my position to you or even examining the atheistic worldview. You couldn't care less whether there Bible is true. You can't even abide that as a possibility. And I certainly have no patience for a worldview that rejects what appears painfully obvious to me.

LoL I entertained the possibility for 35+ that the bible was true so tell me something I don't know. I have read the bible and studied it more than I wish I did. I have slept and woken on my knees studying the bible so I am very familiar with its inconsistencies. At the time, like you I chose to defend its bullshit because I was sold on it. Without a need to defend the bullshit, it falls apart so quickly it makes the head spin.

The indoctrination that tells you the atheistic worldview is demonic will keep you chained to the bullshit of the bible so it doesn't surprise me. But knowing there are no gods or devils means that indoctrination loses its hold on me. What is painfully obvious is the captivity is sold to you and you buy it hook line and sinker.

LordReed:


LoL I entertained the possibility for 35+ that the bible was true so tell me something I don't know. I have read the bible and studied it more than I wish I did. I have slept and woken on my knees studying the bible so I am very familiar with its inconsistencies. At the time, like you I chose to defend its bullshit because I was sold on it. Without a need to defend the bullshit, it falls apart so quickly it makes the head spin.

I also read the Bible a long time (my whole life, in fact) before I was able to understand what it had to say and when I was, it was because someone taught me.

Your familiarity with its inconsistencies remains to be seen.

LordReed:
The indoctrination that tells you the atheistic worldview is demonic will keep you chained to the bullshit of the bible so it doesn't surprise me. But knowing there are no gods or devils means that indoctrination loses its hold on me. What is painfully obvious is the captivity is sold to you and you buy it hook line and sinker.

I hadn't characterized it as demonic but it is an apt description.

Good for you.

LordReed:


LoL I entertained the possibility for 35+ that the bible was true so tell me something I don't know. I have read the bible and studied it more than I wish I did. I have slept and woken on my knees studying the bible so I am very familiar with its inconsistencies. At the time, like you I chose to defend its bullshit because I was sold on it. Without a need to defend the bullshit, it falls apart so quickly it makes the head spin.

The indoctrination that tells you the atheistic worldview is demonic will keep you chained to the bullshit of the bible so it doesn't surprise me. But knowing there are no gods or devils means that indoctrination loses its hold on me. What is painfully obvious is the captivity is sold to you and you buy it hook line and sinker.

Atheists are silly. How the hell did everything get here? Can’t you see it’s all very organized? From the beginning up till now, how can you explain nature and all that life entails? There is obviously a good God working behind the scenes.

Atheists to me are obviously bad and against God. If you still have your bible, go read Mark 10:18. That will tell you your place in existence. It’s only a matter of time before all humanity experiences death.

theoriginalgood:


Atheists are silly. How the hell did everything get here? Can’t you see it’s all very organized? From the beginning up till now, how can you explain nature and all that life entails? There is obviously a good God working behind the scenes.

Atheists to me are obviously bad and against God. If you still have your bible, go read Mark 10:18. That will tell you your place in existence. It’s only a matter of time before all humanity experiences death.

And you are just dumb. Hey dumbass the bible means nothing to me so how about you tell me something real. Your rubbish prophecy has been around for 2000+ years so go and scare some goat herders with that shit.

Ihedinobi3:

I also read the Bible a long time (my whole life, in fact) before I was able to understand what it had to say and when I was, it was because someone taught me.

Your familiarity with its inconsistencies remains to be seen.



I hadn't characterized it as demonic but it is an apt description.

Good for you.

LoL! I pointed out a few but all you did was bring up some more elaborate bullshit to explain the bullshit so there is no point in doing it with you.

Every time I encounter Christians these days I just can't stop laughing and the delusional bullshit they say. Demonic my arse. LMAO!

LordReed:


And you are just dumb. Hey dumbass the bible means nothing to me so how about you tell me something real. Your rubbish prophecy has been around for 2000+ years so go and scare some goat herders with that shit.

I like that. You want something real. I’m not trying to scare you but do you think you’re going to live forever? Do you know why you won’t live forever but God will?

See Mark 10:18.

The fact that the Bible means nothing to you doesn’t really matter here. All humanity will die eventually because no one is truly good. You think good people are supposed to die?

theoriginalgood:


I like that. You want something real. I’m not trying to scare you but do you think you’re going to live forever? Do you know why you won’t live forever but God will?

See Mark 10:18.

The fact that the Bible means nothing to you doesn’t really matter here. All humanity will die eventually because no one is truly good. You think good people are supposed to die?

You are just delusional. Its right there in the stupid book that this generation shall not pass but here we are thousands of years later and dumbasses like you still believe it is going to come to pass. Even Paul thought it was imminent LoL. Paul is dead for thousands of years and it still hasn't come to pass. Please tell me something real not fairytales.

LordReed:


LoL! I pointed out a few but all you did was bring up some more elaborate bullshit to explain the bullshit so there is no point in doing it with you.

Every time I encounter Christians these days I just can't stop laughing and the delusional bullshit they say. Demonic my arse. LMAO!

Your first paragraph is a shining example of what I was talking about. Your preferred counterargument has been "you bring more elaborate bullshit to justify bullshit". And you continue claiming that there is incoherence in the Bible. Look at what you offer as proof of that and tell me what you have actually accomplished in the conversation.

"Demonic" was your word. I just concurred.

As far as being delusional goes, it's us being delusional, is it not, LordReed? Why does the insanity of a mad man bother you so much that you keep hunting us for debates? What harm have we done to you?

There is no possibility of agreement between me and you, LordReed, not as long as you are an atheist. I don't begrudge you your choice of worldviews. Don't begrudge me mine.

Ihedinobi3:


Your first paragraph is a shining example of what I was talking about. Your preferred counterargument has been "you bring more elaborate bullshit to justify bullshit". And you continue claiming that there is incoherence in the Bible. Look at what you offer as proof of that and tell me what you have actually accomplished in the conversation.

"Demonic" was your word. I just concurred.

As far as being delusional goes, it's us being delusional, is it not, LordReed? Why does the insanity of a mad man bother you so much that you keep hunting us for debates? What harm have we done to you?

There is no possibility of agreement between me and you, LordReed, not as long as you are an atheist. I don't begrudge you your choice of worldviews. Don't begrudge me mine.

In all our encounters so far, you are the one who sought to explain stuff to me so I don't know where you got your seeking debate narrative from.

Your delusions don't bother me, they provide entertainment. As long as you don't actively seek the hurt of others I really don't care what you believe so don't think I am trying to convert you. I am very content to simply laugh at whatever fairytale position you want to advance as I am under no obligation to preach to you. You can stop attempting to explain bullshit to me if you don't want hear me 'begrudge' you.

LordReed:


In all our encounters so fa, you are the one who sought to explain stuff to me so I don't know where you got your seeking debate narrative from.

Your delusions don't bother me, they provide entertainment. As long as you don't actively seek the hurt of others I really don't care what you believe so don't think I am trying to convert you. I am very content to simply laugh at whatever fairytale position you want to advance as I am under no obligation to preach to you. You can stop attempting to explain bullshit to me if you don't want hear me 'begrudge' you.

I'll concede that I have been the initiator of discussions but each time it was because you were meddling with the Bible. In the first instance, you challenged something Jesus said and I answered it. The second time here, a believer asked a question and I answered and you and other atheists began to meddle again. Whenever that happens, I answer you for the sake of other believers, not because I feel that correcting you is possible.

I think you should be wary of such a taste in your entertainment choices. There was a time that believers were thrown to lions and burned at stakes because it entertained unbelievers. I don't see that much of a distance from mocking someone's choice of beliefs to actually making sport of killing them or torturing them for it.

Ihedinobi3:


I'll concede that I have been the initiator of discussions but each time it was because you were meddling with the Bible. In the first instance, you challenged something Jesus said and I answered it. The second time here, a believer asked a question and I answered and you and other atheists began to meddle again. Whenever that happens, I answer you for the sake of other believers, not because I feel that correcting you is possible.

I think you should be wary of such a taste in your entertainment choices. There was a time that believers were thrown to lions and burned at stakes because it entertained unbelievers. I don't see that much of a distance from mocking someone's choice of beliefs to actually making sport of killing them or torturing them for it.

The day you catch me advocating for believers to be killed by any means or tortured for entertainment say it and I'll never comment online about believers again. Meanwhile my entertainment choices are mine, I don't need any sanctimonious lecture on how to choose what I like.

I will also continue to laugh at any brain dead Christian opinion or bible commentary, shut your eyes if it is too painful to read. I won't censor my humour for you.

LordReed:


The day you catch me advocating for believers to be killed by any means or tortured for entertainment say it and I'll never comment online about believers again. Meanwhile my entertainment choices are mine, I don't need any sanctimonious lecture on how to choose what I like.

I will also continue to laugh at any brain dead Christian opinion or bible commentary, shut your eyes if it is too painful to read. I won't censor my humour for you.

The fact that he thinks those explanations of his are good enough reason as to why God allow the devil to continue to torment man for ages is what bothers me.

God trying to prove a point to devil and his other creations... The same devil he asked to go and torture Job his beloved son.

How does he expect to get away so easily by explaining it like it was good the Jobs sons were killed by the devil on Gods watch.

Yet this whole God thing is all in his head... Never has he seen either devil nor God... But he is able to explain their actions and intent like they are his next door neighbors. This is the same human that would find it difficult to explain some of the behaviours of his roommate or even wife.