MuttleyLaff:
shadeyinka, just mull over what I've so far advanced and wait for when I am actively back here in the late PM. Sebi nah truth and proper understanding you want erhn? Then wait nah, it'll be worth the waiting.

The moment you speak anything contrary to his myth using the same Bible , you are automatically a Jehovah's witness . I don't even border to address that anymore .

shadeyinka:

Instead of answering politely the question I asked you, you are busy sidestepping it to ask a diversionary question.

The question again if you are confused.

I asked you again:
If angels are spirits (life giving force) , what is their spirit giving life since they don't have a body?
(Note: At least it could make sense to say that the life giving force of a man gives life to his body)

Show me where I ever claimed Angels are force.

Then I will take you serious


My point remains : What is that LIFE that you admit enters a dead body to give ressurection? Breath of life ? Or is it a Personality ?

shadeyinka:

Let me just quickly debunk your post. You agree that God has a soul...but does God have BLOOD?

Can you see how illogical your defence is. Perhaps you may want to rephrase as you can see that Soul is NOT equivalent to their BLOOD crying out.


How come their "Blood" was given white robes?

Everything still boils down to the fact that you don't seem to know the difference between the Soul and the Spirit.

The soul couldn't have meant "blood": rephrase please

The soul of THE FLESH , is in the blood .

You are so deluded that you didn't saw " Flesh " , is God a fleshly person like man and animals ? It means their blood seek vengeance. Plain meaning forget all the symbolic items


If you are so confident it is ReAL , Do you agree with other seals that stars Fall on Earth ?


I said you don't have sense

shadeyinka:

Two issues here:
1. The souls of the beheaded were seen by John
2. AND these souls lived

The issue I am pointing out is not the resurrection (which we both agree upon) BUT John seeing the souls of those who had been beheaded (past tense).

What is the meaning of AND? For it cannot refer to just an item/issue but TWO!


Who came to life?
Isn't it the ones who were beheaded?

I need clarification on " And they LIVED ( Ressurected ) " , What lived ? If it's soul, that means Soul dies , soul refers to those person's ,, defeating your point

And let me get you clearly, are you insinuating it's just some Human flesh that lived ? So human flesh and blood lived and Reside in heaven to rule with Jesus ? Can flesh and blood ( human nature ) inherit God's kingdom in heaven ?

shadeyinka:


Lazarus Soul/Spirit returned into his dead body and the dead body came alive.


This that returned into Lazarus body is that which goes to God at death.

What exactly is this that returned to Lazarus body ? Lazarus himself or a force of life ?

Peacefullove:
The moment you speak anything contrary to his myth using the same Bible , you are automatically a Jehovah's witness . I don't even border to address that anymore .

Needs to get that complex sorted out

Peacefullove:


Show me where I ever claimed Angels are force.

Then I will take you serious


My point remains : What is that LIFE that you admit enters a dead body to give ressurection? Breath of life ? Or is it a Personality ?

See how you're just bent on avoiding to answer a simple question.

Are angels not spirits according to JW doctrine? Is a spirit not just a "life giving force"?
Only if you negate your belief in these two may you avoid the question which I repeat here again.

I asked you again:
If angels are spirits (life giving force) , what is their spirit giving life since they don't have a body?
(Note: At least it could make sense to say that the life giving force of a man gives life to his body)

shadeyinka:

See how you're just bent on avoiding to answer a simple question.

Are angels not spirits according to JW doctrine? Is a spirit not just a "life giving force"?
Only if you negate your belief in these two may you avoid the question which I repeat here again.

I asked you again:
If angels are spirits (life giving force) , what is their spirit giving life since they don't have a body?
(Note: At least it could make sense to say that the life giving force of a man gives life to his body)

Produce where I ever said angels are force ... Stop been Stupid . Blueagent , you see this guy has lost it.

Peacefullove:


What exactly is this that returned to Lazarus body ? Lazarus himself or a force of life ?

This is important

Cc : shadeyinka

Peacefullove:


The soul of THE FLESH , is in the blood .

You are so deluded that you didn't saw " Flesh " , is God a fleshly person like man and animals ? It means their blood seek vengeance. Plain meaning forget all the symbolic items


If you are so confident it is ReAL , Do you agree with other seals that stars Fall on Earth ?


I said you don't have sense

Can you see the illogicality of your postulate?

If God has a soul as you have rightly written, does God have blood? Or Can a soul exist outside blood?

shadeyinka:

Can you see the illogicality of your postulate?

If God has a soul as you have rightly written, does God have blood? Or Can a soul exist outside blood?

Isaiah 42:1 says God has a soul . Do you have a problem with that ? Yes u have , cos soul to you is some imaginary entity living in God. That's your problem.


Concerning soul having blood , the verse said SOUL OF thE FLESH is in the blood, for you to apply this to God , Is God fleshly too ?

Peacefullove:


I need clarification on " And they LIVED ( Ressurected ) " , What lived ? If it's soul, that means Soul dies , soul refers to those person's ,, defeating your point

And let me get you clearly, are you insinuating it's just some Human flesh that lived ? So human flesh and blood lived and Reside in heaven to rule with Jesus ? Can flesh and blood ( human nature ) inherit God's kingdom in heaven ?

It simply means what is stated the killed (the body) LIVED again.

And I have explained times without number: with a glorified body. The kind Jesus had at His resurrection.

You believe that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit BUT this resurrected Jesus was
1. Touched: can one touch a spirit?
2. Eat: do spirits eat?
3. Visible: are spirits visible?

So what kind of body did Jesus resurrect with?

Can you negate 1,2 and 3?

shadeyinka:

Can you see the illogicality of your postulate?

If God has a soul as you have rightly written, does God have blood? Or Can a soul exist outside blood?

Isaiah 42:1 says God has a soul . Do you have a problem with that ? Yes u have , cos soul to you is some imaginary entity living in God. That's your problem. If you have a proper understanding u won't have issues with the statement .


Concerning soul having blood , the verse said SOUL OF thE FLESH is in the blood, for you to apply this to God , Is God fleshly too ?

Peacefullove:


What exactly is this that returned to Lazarus body ? Lazarus himself or a force of life ?

Your question has been answered

Lazarus Soul/Spirit returned into his dead body and the dead body came alive.

This (Lazarus Soul/Spirit) that returned into Lazarus body is that which goes to God at death.

Do you wonder why Jesus called Lazarus rather than Force of Life ?

Of Lazarus body was indeed DEAD can he hear?

Peacefullove:


What exactly is this that returned to Lazarus body ? Lazarus himself or a force of life ?

Your question has been answered

Lazarus Soul/Spirit returned into his dead body and the dead body came alive.

This (Lazarus Soul/Spirit) that returned into Lazarus body is that which goes to God at death.

Do you wonder why Jesus called Lazarus rather than Force of Life ?

Of Lazarus body was indeed DEAD can the dead body hear?

shadeyinka:

It simply means what is stated the killed (the body) LIVED again.

Flesh and blood in God's kingdom in heaven ?

I know you will bring up the Yeshua case, but I know it will bite you hard .

And I have explained times without number: with a glorified body. The kind Jesus had at His resurrection.

Jesus had a Spiritual body . It is sown a physical body and raised a Spiritual body. Spiritual body IS NOT PHYSICAL !

You believe that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit BUT this resurrected Jesus was

1 Corinthians 15:42 is your answer . Spiritual body isn't physical .

1. Touched: can one touch a spirit?
2. Eat: do spirits eat?
3. Visible: are spirits visible?

So what kind of body did Jesus resurrect with?

Can you negate 1,2 and 3?

Point 1& 3: Jesus did what angels did in the past

I said earlier you will bite yourself hard with this aspect.

Point 2: you mention Jesus eating , According to Jesus whatever a man ( human ) eats goes into the stomach and is passed out as Faeces , If Jesus still possess flesh, do you accept eating that fish would make him excrete ?

Side point: at John 2:19-21 , Jesus said destroy this body and I will raise it up . The body Jesus said they should destroy HAS Blood , are you saying he raised up a different kind of body that has no blood ?

Then what happened to the former body ?

shadeyinka:


Your question has been answered

Lazarus Soul/Spirit returned into his dead body and the dead body came alive.

This (Lazarus Soul/Spirit) that returned into Lazarus body is that which goes to God at death.

Do you wonder why Jesus called Lazarus rather than Force of Life ?

Of Lazarus body was indeed DEAD can the dead body hear?

Oh, Lazarus himself returned not soul. ( Eccl 12:7 means all person's go to heaven after death. ?

|||||||

Good, You are finally entering the trap .

So do you then agree that when Jesus said Father into your hands I commend my Spirit ( Jesus ) , it means Jesus himself not his breath, returned to heaven to be with the Father the day he dies ?

Peacefullove:


Produce where I ever said angels are force ... Stop been Stupid . Blueagent , you see this guy has lost it.

Let's look at what your organisation teaches except you wish to refute it

What Is the Holy Spirit?
The Bible’s answer The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force . (Micah 3:8; Luke 1:​35) God sends out his spirit by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will.​—Psalm 104:30; 139:7.
https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=What+is+a+Spirit&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fall%3Fq%3D

Two phrases have been used for defining spirits
1. power in action
2. active force

The qualifier "Holy" is termed as "God's". Hence we can read God's power in action OR God's active force for the Holy Spirit.

Now, that we are on the same page
Answer the Question:
If Angels are spirits (power in action/active force) acting upon what (since they have no body)?

Please kindly answer the above question.

To help you:
(Note: At least it could make sense to say that the life giving force of a man gives life to his body)

shadeyinka:

Let's look at what your organisation teaches except you wish to refute it

What Is the Holy Spirit?
The Bible’s answer The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force . (Micah 3:8; Luke 1:​35) God sends out his spirit by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will.​—Psalm 104:30; 139:7.
https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=What+is+a+Spirit&link=%2Fresults%2FE%2Fall%3Fq%3D

Two phrases have been used for defining spirits
1. power in action
2. active force

The qualifier "Holy" is termed as "God's". Hence we can read God's power in action OR God's active force for the Holy Spirit.

Now, that we are on the same page
Answer the Question:
If Angels are spirits (power in action/active force) acting upon what (since they have no body)?

Please kindly answer the above question.

To help you:
(Note: At least it could make sense to say that the life giving force of a man gives life to his body)

This nonsense must stop, this is peacefullove not any organization . Quote where I said Angels are forces . And for a fact the publication says nothing about angels .

Mr , quote where I said angels are force first . Don't be stupid

Peacefullove:


Isaiah 42:1 says God has a soul . Do you have a problem with that ? Yes u have , cos soul to you is some imaginary entity living in God. That's your problem.


Concerning soul having blood , the verse said SOUL OF thE FLESH is in the blood, for you to apply this to God , Is God fleshly too ?

Of course, God does have a Soul.

Second part:
You are to answer the question for I know that a soul can exist without the blood or flesh. Therefore, God can have a soul without having flesh or blood.

Now, answer the question:

If God has a soul as you have rightly written, does God have blood? Or Can a soul exist outside blood?

shadeyinka:

Of course, God does have a Soul.

So far , you agree . Case closed.

And you equally believe it means there is another person inside of God ?

Second part:
You are to answer the question for I know that a soul can exist without the blood or flesh. Therefore, God can have a soul without having flesh or blood.

Now, answer the question:

If God has a soul as you have rightly written, does God have blood? Or Can a soul exist outside blood?

The soul/life of an human can't exist without blood . Leviticus 17:11. Soul of every FLeSH, is in the blood, this doesn't apply to God , does it ? Open your eyes to the word " Flesh "

shadeyinka:

In other words, there is a difference between a Soul and a Spirit.

If spirits are just life force (as you have been taught), life force for what?

Like it is easy to say God's spirit is the life force for a human being and when the life force exits the body, it DIES.

So, for angels, who are essentially life force (by your definition): what is the life force giving life to in the makeup of an Angel?

You are assuming that the word spirits always means life force, that is wrong.

Angels are spirits meaning they are supernatural beings who are powered by the power of life from God, which is the spirit or force from God.
Only God has life inherently Angels can only depend on God for their life.

Do you know that God is a spirit who has a spirit.

And to the angel of the church in Sardis , write: These things
says He Who has the seven spirits of God and the seven
stars . . . (Revelation 3:1).
And proceeding from the throne were lightnings and
thunders and voices; and seven lamps of fire, which are the
seven spirits of God, were burning before the throne
(Revelation 4:5, see also 5:6).

shadeyinka:
Thank you for your answer.
How about the Soul? You didn't say anything about it

The Hebrew term nephesh in the Old Testament and the Greek psuche in the New Testament are sometimes translated “soul,” but they both mean “life, person.” The different uses of those two words help us to obtain a better understanding of the biblical view of human nature. The confusion we face concerning the nature of the “soul” is because of the introduction of the Greek idea of the immortality of the “soul” into Christian doctrine. 1. The Hebrew meaning of nephesh: In the Old Testament the term nephesh is used in a concrete way to refer to the throat as it relates to breathing and eating (gullet). In Isaiah 5:14* the word nephesh is translated “appetite,” but it really means “throat” (see also Ps. 107:9, where “the thirsty” is literally “the dried-out throat” (nephesh ). The throat is also the instrument of breathing (Jer. 15:9). The use of the word for the throat indicates that nephesh expresses the idea of life and desire, in this case for food and water. The other uses of “soul” appear to be derived from this more concrete one. 2. The person as a being of desires: The need of the “soul” for food, water, and breath extends to include desires and emotions in general. In the Bible the “soul” designates the whole person as characterized by desires, wishes, even cravings. This emphasizes that humans are emotional beings. Proverbs states: “The laborer’s appetite [nephesh, desires, needs] works for him” (Prov. 16:26), that is to say, motivates him to work. The psalmist prays, “Do not turn me over to the desire [literally, “Do not give me up to the nephesh (desire, greed)] of my foes” (Ps. 27:12). Jesus said, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow,” that is to say, as an emotional being I am possessed by sorrow (Mark 14:34). 3. The person as a living being: The need for air or breath allows for “soul” to be used in the sense of life. We find such phrases as “I took my life [nephesh] in my hands,” meaning I risked my life (Judges 12:3; cf. Phil. 2:30); enemies “seek my life,” or attempt to kill me (Ps. 35:4; cf. Matt. 2:20); “Your life [psuche] will be demanded from you” (Luke 12:20). “Soul” does not designate a part of human nature independent of the body, but the totality of the person as a living being (Gen. 2:7). In fact, “soul” is another way of saying “person” or “human being.” The Lord said, “The soul [nephesh, person] who sins is the one who will die” (Eze. 8:4). The church must contend “as one man [psuche , person] for the faith” (Phil. 1:27). The “soul,” as a human being, is fundamentally a self, an individual who can in fact die. “Soul” in the Old Testament refers not only to a living person (Gen. 2:7), but also to a dead person (Num. 5:2; Lev. 21:11). 4. Grammatical use of “soul”: Since “soul” is used to refer to the person as a self, the term came to be used as a pronoun to designate a person. Abram asked Sarai to say that she was his sister in order that “my life [literally, “my soul,”] will be spared” (Gen. 12:13). The Hebrew way of saying “Let me live” (1 Kings 20:32) is “Let my soul live.” The phrase “that my soul may bless you before I die” (Gen. 27:4, NKJV) simply means “that I may bless you.” The word “soul” is not the best translation of the original Hebrew and Greek terms. In the Bible the “soul” is not immortal and cannot exist independent of the physical body. From the point of view of biblical anthropology (the study of human nature), the term “soul” expresses two main ideas. First, humans are by nature creatures of desires and ongings. Second, humans are living beings who eagerly seek to live but are unable to acquire or preserve life by themselves. “Soul” refers to the whole person in need of God, who is the only one who can preserve a human being or extinguish the self forever (Matt. 10:28). Therefore, nephesh/psuche refers to the totality of the person as a center of life, emotions, feelings, and longings that can be fully realized only in union with God. *Unless otherwise noted, Bible texts are from the New International Version.

Michellekabod2:
so majority of Christians/churches are liars since they claim that after death a "ghost" ascends for judgement?

In this thread alone they are different versions of life after death ...lol


Christianity and confusion like bread and butter.

They are wrong.
Those who die are asleep in their graves awaiting the return of Jesus who has the reward to give to every man according to their works.

◄ Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to
give every man according as his work shall be.

Daniel 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall
awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and
everlasting contempt.

www.creation-science-prophecy.com/dead.htm

Peacefullove:

Oh, Lazarus himself returned not soul. ( Eccl 12:7 means all person's go to heaven after death. ?

|||||||

Good, You are finally entering the trap .

So do you then agree that when Jesus said Father into your hands I commend my Spirit ( Jesus ) , it means Jesus himself not his breath, returned to heaven to be with the Father the day he dies ?

No.

Jesus committed his spirit which is his life (breathe) into the hand of God.
Jesus did not go to Heaven until 40ays after his resurrection.

John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet
ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to
them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to
My God and your God.’

Peacefullove:


What exactly is this that returned to Lazarus body ? Lazarus himself or a force of life ?

Force of life.

Peacefullove:


Flesh and blood in God's kingdom in heaven ?

I know you will bring up the Yeshua case, but I know it will bite you hard .


Jesus had a Spiritual body . It is sown a physical body and raised a Spiritual body. Spiritual body IS NOT PHYSICAL !



1 Corinthians 15:42 is your answer . Spiritual body isn't physical .



Point 1& 3: Jesus did what angels did in the past

I said earlier you will bite yourself hard with this aspect.

Point 2: you mention Jesus eating , According to Jesus whatever a man ( human ) eats goes into the stomach and is passed out as Faeces , If Jesus still possess flesh, do you accept eating that fish would make him excrete ?

Side point: at John 2:19-21 , Jesus said destroy this body and I will raise it up . The body Jesus said they should destroy HAS Blood , are you saying he raised up a different kind of body that has no blood ?


Then what happened to the former body ?

When you don't understand the scripture you quote:

John 2:19,21-22:
"Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up . … But He spoke of the temple of His body. Therefore when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them, and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said."

Question 1:
Which body was Jesus speaking of?
Question 2:
The phrase "I will raise it up" is refering to what?

Except you are beyond redemption will you lie about what the above means.


I am amazed at the depth of your brainwashing.
You are justifying a spirit who can be touched, seen and eat and still is a spirit!!??

Question 3.
Define the term spirit?

Question 4.
What is a glorified body if you believe it exists?

Peacefullove:

Oh, Lazarus himself returned not soul. ( Eccl 12:7 means all person's go to heaven after death. ?

|||||||

Good, You are finally entering the trap .

So do you then agree that when Jesus said Father into your hands I commend my Spirit ( Jesus ) , it means Jesus himself not his breath, returned to heaven to be with the Father the day he dies ?

Jesus said to that "good" thief
Today, you'll be with me in paradise!
Luk 23:43:
"And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Question 1.
Is paradise the same as the grave?
Question 2.
Does that scripture mean something else other than the plain meaning?

Peacefullove:



This nonsense must stop, this is peacefullove not any organization . Quote where I said Angels are forces . And for a fact the publication says nothing about angels .

Mr , quote where I said angels are force first . Don't be stupid

Unbelievable!!!
So you are disowning the Jehovah's Witness/Watchtower Organisation!!!

Is it simply because you cannot answer the question:


Answer the Question:
If Angels are spirits (power in action/active force) acting upon what (since they have no body)?

Please kindly answer the above question.

To help you:
(Note: At least it could make sense to say that the life giving force of a man gives life to his body)

Peacefullove:


So far , you agree . Case closed.

And you equally believe it means there is another person inside of God ?




The soul/life of an human can't exist without blood . Leviticus 17:11. Soul of every FLeSH, is in the blood, this doesn't apply to God , does it ? Open your eyes to the word " Flesh "

The problem is that even though I have asked you a number of times, you refuse to answer.
1. What is a soul?
2. Distinguish between soul and spirit

Whenever you can do that, your eyes will clear.

I like showing you scriptures because it portrays your misinterpretations.



See how you are trying to forcefully equate Soul to Life!! So, where did the scripture say:
The Bible says, It is the Blood that makes atonement for the Soul. And you say: The soul/life of an human can't exist without blood!!?? Where?

Lev 17:11:
"For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood. And I have given it to you on the altar to make an atonement for your souls. For it [is] the blood that makes an atonement for the soul."

1. The Life of the Flesh (not the soul) is IN the blood
2. The blood is to make atonement for the soul.

Is the summary of the scripture!

blueAgent:


You are assuming that the word spirits always means life force, that is wrong.

Angels are spirits meaning they are supernatural beings who are powered by the power of life from God, which is the spirit or force from God.
Only God has life inherently Angels can only depend on God for their life.

Do you know that God is a spirit who has a spirit.

And to the angel of the church in Sardis , write: These things
says He Who has the seven spirits of God and the seven
stars . . . (Revelation 3:1).
And proceeding from the throne were lightnings and
thunders and voices; and seven lamps of fire, which are the
seven spirits of God, were burning before the throne
(Revelation 4:5, see also 5:6).

I understand you, so,
Are angels spirits alive or inanimate?

What is the "being" in an angel?
(As you said, "supernatural being"

shadeyinka:

I understand you, so,
Are angels spirits alive or inanimate?

What is the "being" in an angel?
(As you said, "supernatural being"

Spirits are alive.

Spirits have hand,legs,mouth,head.
what sets them apart from humans is that they are invisible to our ordinary eyes and have abilities that are not common to Humans.

Supernatural beings meaning they are beyond the natural being or state of being.