₦airaland Forum

@Ukutsgp
It seems you deliberately missed the point in your last two responses. It is a pity!

Ukutsgp: @Goshen360. i dnt know that u are one of the perpetrators of false gospel on this forum.

saying that our past sins, present and future sins are already taken care of is heresy. stop this falsehood and confess ur sin to God to obtain his forgiveness.

if u confess ur sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive u.

I believe we should ask for forgiveness when we sin for fellowship with the Lord to be restored, not for us to be re-saved.
If our future sins were not covered by Christ's death, how do we get present forgiveness. Are you suggesting He dies perpetually?

Ukutsgp: d mods are making me angry. all what i have been typing since disappeared. i'm out for now.

Alright. Sorry about that.

Ukutsgp: J
......
so we are saved by faith but that does not mean we should not obey God's word. by keeping his commandment. avoiding sin, giving to the poor and many more. we must live right else our faith is useless.

So true.
Who said otherwise?
That said, I hope you agree that salvation is of grace, not just the born-again experience?

paxonel: did. you follow the ,argument at all? it's not by writing. plenty things o,, make your argument logically

True talk.

paxonel: because he does not believe in JESUS, he believes in his works. he does not have faith, it is either his faith or his works he should choose one
Romans 11:6 And if by grace (faith ), then it is no more of works...
since he has choosed works over faith then.he is not different from a Muslim or anybody outside christianity
he believes by mouth, but by action. (because he is more of works ) he has denied the faith
remember, action speaks louder than voice
that means, he is condemned already into hell fire John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already...

Lol. I get your point.

labot: Dear Ukutsg, do you know who first promulgated that the law contains moral, ceremonial and judicial precepts? That both the ceremonial and judicial precepts are no longer binding but the moral is still binding? Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas(1225-1274). Yes the catholic doctrine you so condemn yet are now upholding. The Bible does not divide the Law of Moses into "moral laws", "ceremonial laws" and "judicial or civil law" as if the moral laws were somehow more eternally and universally binding than the others. Now Gal 3:19 says: What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. And it [the Law] was arranged and ordained and appointed through the instrumentality of angels [and was given] by the hand (in the person) of a go-between [Moses, an intermediary person between God and man]. Amplified Bible (AMP).
[b]The verse said the Law, not ceremonial and judicial law but the Law as a whole. [/b]Please quote the bible as it is don't add and don't remove. God bless you.

Thanks for this, great post.

@ Ukutsgp
You got the most essential thing in all of this wrong. So the false conclusion you arrive out is understandable.
When the Bible says salvation is not by the law, what it meant is that, IT IS NOT DESERVED. And by this you should understand that by the "law" is comprehended both the ceremonial and ten commandments. Removing the ten commandments as you've done, such passages would read, we are not justified by keeping the ceremonial laws! .
And what would their thrusts be? If you fail at the foundation, your building cannot stand but must collapse.

Ukutsgp: so we are not supposed to obey the ten commandment? i know that we are not to follow the ceremonial law. but the principle of holiness in those laws stands. he said we should be holy and separates ourselves from the world. obeying him through his word can help us to live a holy life. u cant rule out the place of holiness in our christian walk with God.

Didn't you see in that post , that justification does not from keeping the law? Do you know that the law and commandments are one and the same? If you see a distinction, It would please me to see it too.

@labot
Beautiful passages. Showing our need of God's own righteousness.
"Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed".
This pretty much sums it up.

Ukutsgp: i am not trying to justify myself. all i am saying is dat, sin leads to eternal death therefore we must avoid sin like ebola. sin can seperate us from God forever if we live carelessly in this world.

Of course we should. But the big question is,WHY?

Ukutsgp: i just try all i cud to please God. that's all. without holiness, no man shall see God.

And when He receives you on the last day, it will not be for your, 'holiness '.

Ukutsgp: laden with error.

Sounded like one of the reformers of old.

paxonel: Muslim

Why do you call him that?

labot: Dear Ukutsgp, do you honestly believe you're righteous? You think all your church going, tithe paying, prayer meetings, being good etc makes you righteous? All our righteousness are filth in God's eyes(Psalm 14:2-3, Rom 3:10-12). The only righteous thing we do is believing in Christ and even that is not our effort, it is the gift of God(Ephesians 2:8-10) i.e we can not believe in Christ by ourselves except God makes us believe(John 6:44-45). The good works we do after we accept Christ are all of God's work(Ephesians 2:10, Phillipians 2:13). When we accept Christ through the workings of the Holy Spirit, He instills into us different habits. These new habits, though they may and will develop by practice, are not produced by practice. The Spirit immediately forms the habits for us. Such is regeneration. We now have desires and thoughts we never had before. The Holy Spirit has regenerated us and changed our minds and when we sin, the Holy Spirit makes us realize our sins and we regret committing those sins. The Holy Spirit helps us abandon our sinful ways and we gradually become better people but we can never become completely sinless as long as we're in this flesh(1 John 5:16) not until the day of glorification. Yes Once Saved, Always Saved is biblical(John 5:24, 6:37-40, 6:44-47, 10:27-29, Phillipians 1:6, 2 Thessalonians 3:3, 1 Peter 1:3-5). Our salvation from beginning to end is all of God's work(Hebrews 12:2). God bless you.

Completely endorsed.

Ukutsgp: u cant be sinning and expect ur salvation to be intact. God is not a respecter of persons. those that die in their sins are in danger already. they listen to this kind of message and they became lax in their sinful state.

this was same kind of message satan preached to eve in d garden of eden. he told her that they could eat of the forbidden fruit and they will not die but be like God. they ate it and they die a spiritual death.

all sin likewise will lead to spiritual death.

Get it right! Just as Christ's death was once and for all, so is the believer's justification. Therefore when we ask for forgiveness, we are not asking for a re-justification or a re-saving, rather we are asking for a restoration of fellowship. We were not saved for our good works, neither are we saved by our present good works. Neither is our salvation PROVISIONAL to be ratified by how well we are able to live. SALVATION is absolutely by grace.

paxonel: as a matter of fact i am a living witness. ever since i know that truth do you know that i find it very difficult to commit sin, my life is blessed, it's like i discovered a gold
i have no single fear what so ever, unlike those times i used to believe that if i commit sin i will be cast to Hellfire.
my life was so miserable, i was living in fear, struggling hard to be righteous anytime i ask God for forgiveness
i asked God.for forgiveness like 18 to 20 times a day, i became frustrated
one day i asked myself a question, if humans can give gift to people without expecting anything in return or any form of payment what is the gift there in the salvation God gave me,that he will demanding for forgiveness all the time?
doe's it mean that humans are righteous than God?
i then approached a pastor who elaborated the scritures for me
since that day, i decided to go back to school. as i was getting knowledge and understanding i soon discovered that the reason why i was commiting sin those times was lark of knowledge and understanding
now i find it difficult to commit sin (even though i am not perfect, i am still learning )

Great post.
I know how you must have felt because I have been there.
When I considered the christian teaching on justification, works, grace, faith, imputation of righteousness, predestination, it became too clear that the teaching that a believer could lose salvation(Arminianism) was a BLATANT LIE. The Bible witnesses the same and so do the reformers.

Ukutsgp: i thank God for using me to bring d truth to limelight. the truth surely sets free.

Wonders will never end.

@ Paxonel
Thanks. If we stick to the teaching of those facts which lead to our conclusion, we will do very well.

Ukutsgp: unregenerated people dnt know how to ask for mercy when they commit sin. they dnt know christ.

You conveniently forgot that as soon as the regenerates sin, they become un regenerates, at least according to you.

Ukutsgp: it is nt false. a regenerated person can fall into an unregenerated state due to sin. a believer can also become unbeliever and vise versa.

xthwonder: Bros e nor dey. Nor mind that guy. [b]If u can help ur self, u don't need God! [\B]

Pretty much sums it up.

@ Paxonel
Please be more civil. Remember also that we must humbly teach what we have received.

Ukutsgp: it is nt false. a regenerated person can fall into an unregenerated state due to sin. a believer can also become unbeliever and vise versa.

This is so false. If true, there's no advantage to the re- generated man over the unregenerated man, better to receive salvation at our deathbeds!

Ukutsgp: why dnt u just agree that sin disconnect one from God and that for one to be connected back to God, he or she had to confess and forsake that sin. in that state of sin, is d person save?

You imply then that when we ask for forgiveness, we are re-regenerated, this is false. To hold to that view is to hold that there is no difference between the believer and unbeliever and in how the Lord sees them.

Ukutsgp: when adam and eve sinned, what happened?

I ask these questions to understand your viewpoint instead of just asserting mine.
But let's grant that a believer immediately loses his salvation on sinning then gains it on repentance, how many times a day would you suppose that happens for the average believer? Does it make sense to you? Why don't we just agree that none is saved until they are dead or the last day? In this way where is grace and the difference between Christianity and other religions?

@ Ukutsgp
What happens when we sin? Do we immediately lose our salvation?

Ukutsgp: d point is, can one lost his salvation due to sin and wrong living?

My point is that OSAS is a conclusion after examination of several facts, if you don't see or acknowledge these facts, obviously you don't see the conclusion. My question remains.

Goshen360: The answer is, no one in Christ can lost his or her salvation. If there's one such as yourself, ask yourself. ..since you came to be in Christ, have you sinned or not. If you have sinned, did you loose your salvation and try to regain it or what? Have you lived wrongly, making a wrong choice? If you have, are you unsaved trying to be save again?

Completely endorsed.

Ukutsgp: God told Abraham to walk before him snd be blameless. Abraham lived according to the word of God. in obedience and godly reverence.

What was his ground(s) for salvation? Faith? Works? Or a mixture of both?

@ O.P
What shall we say that Abraham our Father hath found?
He (Abraham) was not justified by works so that grace could be shown to be grace and the promise of eternal life sure to not only him, but all who have the same faith , believing in Christ, who was crucified for their offences and raised up for their justification (salvation ).

I think we should try to understand this simple point; Paul was not against the keeping of the law perse, he was against the keeping of the law as a mean towards justification (salvation,if you please).

Great post! This promises to be enlightening and interesting.

*Sits down*.