₦airaland Forum

Gombs:
Bidam too. I think this is covered. But a little scripture that changed my mindset forever on what Jesus by God did for us. How He so loves us!

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Once you're declared righteous (the moment you got born again) by God through Jesus Christ, you can stand boldly before God without guilt, condemnation or inferiority, because you are now God's righteousness in Christ Jesus. Meaning, after being justified by faith, we received the gift of righteousness, therefore we now have th ability to do right things ie sin no more.

But we err and sin, but that doesn't make us sinners, sinners do not hav the nature of God in them, and so, when we sin, because we have being justified, our advocate, Jesus will b there for us. But Paul asked, do we then continue in sin because grace abound?

Hiswordxray:
Someone who is justified is not a sinner but is Holy, righteous, faultless blameless in the sight of God (Col 1:22 & Eph 1:4)
Someone who is in Christ can never sin because there is no sin in Christ (1John 3:5&9).

italo:
Just to mention that Justification doesn't mean the justified wont sin.
He can sin.

italo:
Justification also doesn't mean the justified doesn't have to do anything else in order to go to heaven.
He does.

shdemidemi:
Thanks for the invite @Fortresofchrist

The term Justification can easily mean or be best put as 'just as if you never sinned'.

The detailed explanation of our justification can only be found in the Pauline epistles though we can discern from other parts of scripture that the teaching of justification has always been God's faithful plan for mankind.

Jesus began to tell parables as a way of judgement to unbelievers. He told parables to veil and hide the truth from those who were not part of Him. He started to talk to the people in languages they will not easily understand but would explain some of these things to his disiples though they themselves hardly understood what Christ really meant by his parables at that point in time.

Information regarding 'Justification by God' was presented to the people in so many ways through parables by Jesus. In one of his parables, He spoke about a prodigal son (represents every man born of Adam) who came back to his senses and reached for the father. He was Justified by His father and was given the fattest calf(God's word) to feast on.

He also spoke about hired hands(Gentiles, fatherless, Godless) that was employed late but was remunerated with the same wage as the workers who had been working for the master all day.

He talked about justification in most of his parables and there was one common factor in most. There is always one party that gets to be justified and the other that is always envious/bitter because they have WORKED. In the parable of the prodigal son, the brother that was 'good' felt the father was unfair to justify the son that he deemed 'bad'. In the other parable the workers who had toiled all day felt cheated by the master for placing the workers that came late to the scene an equal reward. WORK is always against GRACE just as the flesh constantly war against the spirit. But God remains a merciful father who does not pay His own children according to their 'work' but according to His mercy and Grace.

Paul simply unveiled all Jesus said in so many parables. The doctrine of Justification is the leg Grace stands upon through propitiation of our Sin. I think it becomes imperative to know of what 'sin' we have been justified. It is not merely the fact that one lie, or fornicate etc (those are acts of sin), God took sin by the jugular, from its very root which is from the fall of Man/adam.

Hence, we are no longer accused by the sin of Adam but we yet carry a body that was made in sin. Our body and its members are the main instrument of sin. They crave for sin even when our mind mean to do good. Our body and its member suppresses our mind and we give in more often than none. Falling for our fleshly desires does not make us less justified but it means we are yet carnal in the areas where we are subdued by our flesh to do its demands.

No man can completely wash himself off sinful acts- It is a work we have to consciously engage in until we are separated from our earthly/sinful body. That is no excuse or license to become lascivious for a sincere Christian of course, it can be for one who is not truly transformed. The fact remains that we are all a 'WORK-IN-PROGRESS' though we have been JUSTIFIED in the salvific sense..

vooks:
This is what you get when you embark on skepticism with half a brain.

Demand proof from scriptures and when any is adduced you summarily dismiss it as fabrication.

Frosbel is not smart. Before engaging him,aks him which parts are genuine and which are fabrication.

frosbel:
^^

I smell wounded pride !

frosbel:
I am still going back to respond to Goshen, I have been tied up with that ignoramus of a Vooks and his mentor BabaGnoni.

Bottom line though is that the Virgin birth is a myth but more importantly not a condition for salvation.

frosbel:
I am sure God stands for TRUTH and therefore will not want any of us to believe a LIE or accept an error as a thing that is permissible.

Still, I ask you and your fellow believers, where in the entire bible is the virgin birth and trinity given by the apostles as a pre-condition for salvation ? Would you agree that these positions are not from the apostles or God but from church tradition ?

frosbel:
Good quotes .

I hope our sister and brother can explain how this relates to the once saved always saved concept.

JMAN05:
2 Peter 2:20-22

20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." NIV

Will they be saved? Was it the action/works of this people that made them loose salvation? Could there works/actions contribute to there not being condemned?

Heb 10:26-29

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? NIV

Will such ones be saved? Did there actions/works affect there fate? If they had refrained from deliberate sin, could it have affected there fate?

JMAN05:
2 Peter 2:20-22

20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." NIV

Will they be saved? Was it the action/works of this people that made them loose salvation? Could there works/actions contribute to there not being condemned?

Heb 10:26-29

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? NIV

Will such ones be saved? Did there actions/works affect there fate? If they had refrained from deliberate sin, could it have affected there fate?

johnydon22:
lmao still clinging to ur old beliefs... hehehehehehe. what made you think chineke in igbo is same as yahweh... sorry to burst ur bubbles too but yahweh aint same as chineke in igbo, olorun in yoruba... why dont you also say yahweh is same as baal and dagon... these are different cultures and differents gods...simple.

frosbel:
Not intentional trust me, I am trying to probe you to understand exactly where you are coming from.

Let me use a more direct method - do you believe I can be saved without agreeing with any of the aforementioned concepts/doctrines ?

Thanks.

frosbel:
Man can keep the Law by the Spirit of God as loudly proclaimed in Romans 8:1-4

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

8:3
We aren't saved from sin's grasp by knowing the commandments of God, because we can't and don't keep them, but God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours-except that ours are sinful-and destroyed sin's control over us by giving himself as a sacrifice for our sins.

frosbel:
Does it ? And if yes, show me where this stance is supported in SOLA SCRIPTURA !

esdb2:
dude trust me I know what you feel. What I did in my case was stop and started tailoring my life towards christ so I'll make heaven and Ask lots of question. There are somethings that needs to be accepted blindly its just how everything works. Am the same esdb of before I was banned

frosbel:
You dodged the question again, let me repeat in rephrased mode ;

Is there anywhere in ALL the Letters of Paul, Peter, Jude , James, Acts of the Apostles and Revelations where people were obliged to believe in a VIRGIN BIRTH or TRINITY as a pre-condition for salvation, in fact where these concepts even mentioned ?

PastorAIO:
You've hit the nail on the end. 'if' santa exists. Now think, does Santa exist?

PastorAIO:
I used to think that santa Claus was real but then I fell.

frosbel:

frosbel:


Brother ( yes you are my brother ), let's park this for now, we will laugh it over when we inherit the new Jerusalem ( you will be surprised ).

I beg to differ all the same.

frosbel:
Is belief in a book or person ??

Also , can you show me from the entire SOLA SCRIPTURA where ANY of the Apostles said we MUST believe in the VIRGIN BIRTH and TRINITY as a precondition of salvation.

Please show me, no dilly dallying.

Thanks.

frosbel:
Foul to the bolded !

I was a worker in both churches and once saved always saved was deemed to be heresy.

It's a black and white situation you see, no straddling on the fence is permitted.

frosbel:
I thought no one could fall in your ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED theology

frosbel:
So you agree with me then that the catholic church, Deeperlife church, redeemed Christian church , Methodist church etc ,are all PREACHING THE WRONG DOCTRINE on the possibility of losing one's salvation ?

Thanks.

frosbel:
The bible is not about isms, it is a pointer ( in some respects ) to Christ.

Your damnable heresies of 'once saved always saved' , ' limited atonement ' and 'original sin' would have been laughable had it not been for the great delusions and confusion it has wrought in the 'assembly of God.

frosbel:
You need to repent, take a u-turn and go back to the TRUTH !

An2elect2:
You want to know truth? Christians are saved by grace! This is something that no one can earn! You can't work for it! If that happens salvation ceases to be by grace.

The reason we repent is because we are saved! Confession of sins do not remit us of our sins! that is done by the blood of Jesus!

Your example is a typical one always raised by those who falsely teach salvation can be lost. You raise it because you know nothing about God and the truth. Its mystical to you and unbelievable.

If in any case this kind of thing ever happens, yes the believer is saved cos his/her salvation is not based on works or how much he/she has done but on the completed work of Christ on the cross.

An2elect2:
True! i can't imagine anybody rejecting righteousness imputed by faith and still claiming to be a christian. If our works contribute then Christ/God cant take the whole glory...

An2elect2:
Amen! and you too!

frosbel:
"They will put you out of the churches synagogue;....... will think they are offering a service to God." - John 16:2

1Peter 2
19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God .

frosbel:
Funny thing is Muslims use the same line of argument when adherents leave the faith, i.e were they ever muslims to begin with , lol.

Oh Yes I was 'saved' and 'saved' into the baba of all churches aka Deeperlife . In fact I was a worker, an usher, head of ushers, house leader , etc etc. I wasted 15 years of my youth in this cult, years I could have used to do better things.

And God has now given you the ability to judge who is saved or not, typical Nigerian Christian lol.

An2elect2:
Am not a typical Nigerian christian. You accuse me falsely. If there is any that speaks against all Nigerian churches and their heresies, i should be the one.
By God's grace I've seen too much in Christendom in this part of the world that have driven me to stay away from these Christians so called who have no clue of the God they are serving.

The only thing that differentiates me from the hypocrites hiding under the umbrella of Christianity and confused unbelievers like you is the GRACE of God.

If you have the Spirit of Christ inside of you, you will be led into all truth. Notice, led into... that means as you mature in the faith of Christ(which is a gift) truth will begin to unfold and everything will gradually begin to make sense. However this is not the case for people who never really got saved.

By the grace of God, i have grown to know people who are not saved just from their salvation experience.
What is your 'salvation experience' Mr Frosbel?

I believe the question you should be asking yourself is 'was i ever saved?'