₦airaland Forum

Omofunaab2:
Why should it concern a Igbo, if a Yoruba Man from Osun decides to claim another yoruba state "lagos state" as his state of origin ?

Lol, they don't know the rule only applies to non-Yorubas. No Yorubas in their right mind cares about another Yoruba claiming Lagos. I think what you have is a situation of:

"Oh, if I an Igbo man can't claim Lagos, why are these other Yorubas from Ekiti and Ogun claiming they are Lagosian, It's not fair."

Lol, they are forgetting that the Ekiti or Ogun born is still Yoruba so he/she won't feel unwelcomed in another Yoruba state. That's the brotherhood some of them don't quite understand.

agadez007:
Please,there are no Indigenous Yorubas in Kwara or Kogi

The People who Speak yoruba in those states Migrated there,like the O.p said,His people arrived kwara from Ekiti state and he is free to Migrate back to Ekiti if he wants but No piece of Fulani land is going to the Land grabbing yoruba

Back in the days I had this classmate i used to think he was yoruba till he told me he is fulani from kwara

this is where i drop da Mic

What is this trash up there?

OH MY, THIS IS NEWS EVERYBODY. This guy just told us that there are Yoruba-speaking Fulanis from Kwara. When did you found out about this groundbreaking news that you needed to tell everyone?

You better go and face your Anioma and Ikwerre saga and leave Yorubas alone.
I smell jelousy and bigotry. Are you unease due to the extent of Yorubaland. You better go and beg the Ijaws for Ubani and Opobo so your landlocked region will have access to the sea if Nigeria splits.

WORLDPEACE:
No part speaks Oyo? Have you been to Oke-Igbo?

Omo, taoheedoriloye was quite right in a lot of ways actually, he was only off when he said that those in Kwara are more Yoruba than Ondo.

Yes, Yorubas in Kwara and Kogi need to be included as well.Yes, no parts of Ondo speak Oyo dialect natively.

Also, the people of Oke-Igbo don't speak Oyo. They speak Ede Ufe (Ife dialect).

Probz:
Yoruba identity's always been more rooted in culture than language though. Itsekiri people aren't culturally Yoruba

Yes, speaking the same way is not what ties Yoruba together, it's point of origin. Directly or indirectly, all Yorubas point their origin to Ile-Ife.

Are you suggesting that their culture is more Bini than Yoruba? Can you give me some examples? I'll argue that the core of their culture is similar to Yorubas. It's perfectly fine if Itsekiri don't claim Yoruba, identity is subject to change after all. I'm just trying to separate facts from the current myths often repeated on NL

macof:
Exactly, the deep origin of the akoko people go back to a proto-edo people who had just split from the proto-yoruba and proto-igbos. Many akoko languages hold words close to Igbo, when igbos never had a significant contact with them

As igala split from the yoruba so did akoko split from the Edo. It is really recently(starting from the late pre-colonial era) that the "yoruba" tag gradually became adopted especially by those in Ondo state as more and more yoruba culture and language influences them
Its funny how a yoruba people like the itsekiri do not adopt the "yoruba" tag

Yes you are right. The Ayere and Ahaan languages are 2 of such independent proto languages spoken in Akoko Ondo. They are not Edoid or Igboid or Yoruboid, they are independent although they are very close to Yoruba and they share significant vocabularies with Yoruba pointing to archaic origins. They give a clue as to what came before the Yoruba language as we know it today. The Ayere and Ahaan communities claim origin to Ile-Ife. This is the same exactly scenario of Arigidi people in Northern parts of Akoko who are proud Yoruba who speak an archaic language closely related to Yoruba but not exactly a dialect of Yoruba. They used to be classify with Yoruboid languages as Defoid(Ede-Ife-oid) branch until recently when linguists regarded Arigidi as an independent branch of it's own although, it still shares a considerable amount of cognates with Yoruba.

taoheedoriloye:
no part of ondo speak oyo language called yoruba now.
Note:I am from ondo ok.here is my point, bro they should include those I mentioned earlier not excluding them from their plans

There is no such thing as more Yoruba or less Yoruba. Yoruba is just an umbrella and the dialect that was standardized by Samuel Ajayi is just one of the many colorful dialects of the vast Yoruba language. Those dialects in Ondo state are the closest to the original archaic Yoruba language you should know.

This is a welcomed development. The Yorubas of Benin Rep should form close to the same proportion as those in Nigeria at around 17.8% of the population according to their 2006 census. They are mainly native to Central and Southeastern parts of the country and they speak various southwest Yoruba dialects which form a dialect continuum with Togo.

Yoruba movies produced in Nigeria are popular among Yorubas in Benin. The Alaketu of Ketu once said that his people tune into Ogun state tv because it's broadcasted in Yoruba as opposed to the French language only programs offered in Benin.

There are notable Beninese of Yoruba ethnicities in Benin. The former president, Boni Yayi is from the the town of Tchaourou(Shaworo). Other notable Beninese of Yoruba origin include Angelique Kidjo who was nominated a total of 11 times, 3 of which she won. Samuel Oshoffa, the founder of the Celestial Church of Christ is also Beninese.

Yorubas are just very influential! They are native to 3 African countries and they have significant influence spanning 3 continents.

YungMillionaire:
You are comparing Abuja indigenes to Yorubas who built empires before the arrival of the white man? Go buy sense.

Don't mind am joor.

Abuja is the only major city you can say was built from scratch with oil proceeds and developed equally by all Nigerians.

Remember that Ibadan was the largest city in Subsaharan Africa pre-independence.

ipodstinks:
Are you just knowing? I always burst him. The boy desperation for likes ehn, no be here.

Omo you get it jare. I'm not even aware of his moniker. The moment he said I'm a YORUBA GIRL, I knew something was up.

And wetin be fumi?

fumi ko fufu ni

fumiswtpusy:
I am a yoruba girl and I stay in ph currently.
The truth is if there is a referendum in rivers,bayelsa and akwa ibom.
More than 70 percent will vote for biafra.because I see first hand how these people love biafra.although I don't know about other south south state but I am very sure of these one's because I shuttle these states regularly.
Hard truth is speaking.

I have no problem with your Biafra talk. However, you are not fooling anybody with this yeye game you are trying to play.

Let me keep it simple

You are not Yoruba!

I even doubt if you are a woman you claim to be.

moninuola65:
The center is our lover, the federal govt. for the most of time come to our rescue but the regional marginalization persist.
All the capital projects either diverted to Big cities or stop, for our chairmen meet commissioner is a batte, talkless of seen governors.
they deliberate margialize oke-ogun to turn our generations into their eternal slaves!

A large percentage of Nigeria's corruption are based on the federal gov as well from corruption in NNPC to corruption among ministers. Your grievances are misplaced. Do you know how long it took before the FG did anything about the Lagos-Ibadan expressway? Anyways, it seems like you like the status quo of Nigeria as it is currently (Big FG- small SG/regional) so there is no point in reaching out to you.
I'm done.

@moninuola65
I totally understand your grievances, but here is the deal: this scenario is found in many of the states in Nigeria most notably Kaduna, Kogi, Benue, Borno, etc. If a regional Yoruba region arose from a restructured Nigeria, won't you think the voice of Onko people would be louder in a Yoruba space where Yoruba maters and grievances are discussed and expressed.

Imagine a scenario, where Nigeria splits and Yorubas have their own nation, do you think the nature the states are in a Nigeria at the moment will remain the same. In a Yoruba country, the states will be based on a historical subgroup/kingdom type of structure. Every if not most Yoruba groups will get their own state. Onko living in Oyo will have their own state with the administrative capital located in one of the important historic towns like Saki, Iseyin, Kisi, Igbeho, etc. In fact the entire state of Oyo can be broken down into Ibarapa, Oyo, Ibadan and Onko states to represent the way things were historically.

This form of marginalization is found throughout many states in Nigeria. Your grievances are a result of the current Nigerian political system and less of just a Yoruba issue.

Markfemi3:
When did Moro asa Patagi become Yoruba land ? Those are nupe settlements not Yoruba land
You have shot your self in the foot again

Emir of ilorin has control over ilorin and 2 other non Yoruba senatorial district

Moro and Asa are Yoruba, Pategi is Nupe.

Emir of Ilorin resides over the 2 lgas that make up Ilorin city(Ilorin South and west). Ilorin East is not controlled by the emir ad it's in Igbominaland and ruled by Yoruba kings as well as Moro and Asa lgas.

Nowenuse:
You can say the North-central (aka middlebelt) and other northern minority areas is part of my identity and that is why i defend her territorial integrity, but not the entire north.
What the fvck do you think i would give if Sokoto & Zamfara states are having territorial issues?
Or Hausa-fulanis & yorubas clash? Do you think i would take any sides?

Liar, liar, liar. ''Ilorin & Lokoja are traditionally under the rulership of the Sokoto caliphate (Ilorin especially)''.

Now, how in the name of Abel is this a wrong statement and not a reality of facts? Listen to yourself. Most of what i have been saying here are nothing but the truth, only that i might be magnifying certain aspects which does not sit well with your self delusions and then am labelled an antagonist.

Do you think you are playing mind games with a toddler here? Just same way you claim to have noticed me as a yoruba antagonist, so have i noticed you as a yoruba extremist and supremacist.

And this is where you are dead wrong! The colonial masters did not divide Africans according to tribal lines did they? So, when it comes to international issues in Africa, you just have to keep your tribe to your pocket

I have more legal national rights in any part of yoruba land in Nigeria as a Nigerian citizen than a Benin republic yoruba who is just a stone-throw across the Seme border. Bro, you of all people should be smarter than this now. Haba.

And as for Nigeria. Nigeria is not adminstrated by tribal authorities or tribal regions. The territorial integrity of our federating units were not explicitly formed along tribal lines. Is there anything like Yoruba land in the Nigerian constitution?
Hence when it comes to issues affecting the official territorial structure of a federating unit like Kogi state. Other non-yoruba Kogi indigenes have more rights than a South-westerner. Also, the northern political region or North-central geo-political zone is also far more legal that an immaginary cultural yoruba line. Lol

Any yoruba sub-group can officially/culturally pull out of yoruba identity today and heavens will not fall, just as many SS igbo speaking tribes are denouncing Igbo identity and their rights must be respected. Now, can any group just come out and denounce their state, geo-political zone or region without going through legal and consitutional rites??

And you should know very well, that Yorubas in the NC don't count as part of the middle belt.

Saying Ilorin emirate is traditionally governed under Sokoto caliphate is different from saying Ilorin "belong" to the North. Using the word "belong" in this context carries a different connotation all together. It has a hateful undertone to it and you know it. Things like that make you sound like an antagonist.

Yes, you might have more legal rights as a Nigerian, but socially speaking that Benin Yoruba's opinion is more respected/ socially valid. And as for the bolded, all Kogites have more rights on the issue than you as a Plateau man, you can't play the NC attache.

Nowenuse:
Oh no brother, you are the one twisting your own words. I see no reason why you adress the Tivs, Idomas, Igalas, Igedes, Ebiras, Nupes and others as a few! And here you are again saying only Benue & Southern Niger don't use hausa as a 2nd language. Where did you put the Igalas, Ebiras, Bassas, Nupes, Bussas and other tribes of Kogi & Kwara north?
Now, if you add the population of the Tivs, Idomas, Igedes, Igalas, Ebiras, Nupes e.t.c they will likely outnumber the other tribes who use Hausa as a 2nd language in the North-central combined.
If north-central becomes a country or self governing region today, do you think Hausa would work as a lingua franca? Hell no it won't.


And you see my problem with you is that you are 'Mr know it all', if not you will also know that there are other parts of the north/middlebelt where Hausa is not understood or used as a lingua franca. E.g, many Gbagyi speaking areas of Niger state & FCT do not understand Hausa. They speak only Gbagyi and pidgin which is now becoming very popular because of Abuja metro.

In Langtang town and other Langtang/Tarok speaking areas (Langtang north & South LGAs) in Plateau state, you cannot survive by speaking Hausa alone, you must learn Tarok cos most of them do not understand Hausa there.
I have Tarok friends here in Delta state (where i reside) and whenever we meet, we have to speak pidgin or standard english cos they don't understand Hausa and they were all born and bred in Langtang. Infact, most Langtang people have to learn Hausa from the scratch when in Jos and they are sometimes adressed as INYAMIRIN PLATEAU (plateau igbos) , cos they speak hausa just like Igbos do. Now, they (Taroks) are arguably the largest tribe in Plateau state.

This scenario also plays out in parts of Adamawa, Taraba, Gombe where lots of people from larger tribes there cannot speak Hausa at all, and the worst in Borno/Yobe where Kanuri language is as much a lingua franca as Hausa. You must learn Kanuri and perhaps Bura in order to survive in most parts of Borno & Yobe states.

Go to Zuru town in Kebbi state, many of them don't understand Hausa there and this is supposed to be the 2nd largest town in Kebbi state. Most hausas there have to learn Lelna (zuru language) to cope.

You need to learn more about the north before making yourself an authority on northern issues. Cos the authority with which you speak on issues you don't know so much on is annoying.[/size]

Back to what I said,
"Out of the many states in the North that use Hausa as a lingua franca outside states with Yoruba speakers, only Benue state and Southern Niger state don't use it as a second language."

Kogi and Kwara states got Yoruba speaker, no be so? So sorry to say, but your statement is wrong. You need to read between the lines.

You can save your long spiel, all the ethnic groups you listed up there are no more than 10. Congrats, you listed less than 10 ethnolinguistic groups from like the perhaps 200 or more ethnolinguistic groups in the North. Also, I'm talking about the number of ethnic groups who use Hausa as a second language in the North and not necessary population.

Let me ask you a question. When you meet someone or you are getting acquainted with someone, ''where are you from?'' has to be among the first questions, or not?
I am also a very observant person by nature. I might just be travelling through an area or when i visit a place and i try to notice the way the faces of the people look like, their dressings, cultures, imterract with them and learn to know their views of life with the slightest opportunity. That's me!
And you just happened to meet the many Yoruba deniers along the way.
Now, about yoruba muslims, what would i gain from hating them? They just disgust me with their slavish dispositions and that's all. Many middlebelt indigene muslims also give me that disgust, so it's not just yoruba muslims.

Hate and disgust are not exclusive.

I have said it before and i repeat myself. I am not against Okuns having their own state or whatever. I am only against them dividing Lokoja (the capital of Kogi state) away to the South-west. And i strongly believe my opinion on this is the same with Ebiras, Igalas, Nupes and all other Kogi state indigenes.

You cannot just divide a central capital city all other Kogites are trying to build and develop with the collective state rescources and take it away to another region entirely.
Imagine the new federal university in Felele that was established by the FG for all Kogites & North-central catchment areas in general will now be taken away to the South-west! That's absurd and will never happen in broad daylight. It's tantamount to robbery if you ask me.
I'd say it's akin to middlebelters declaring seccession and taking Abuja (Nigeria's FCT) together with us and leaving Nigerians to start looking for a fresh capital city to start again with.

It's not impossible to have a city that span two states/admin div. This phenomenon exists throughout the world. Also, when states creation happen in Nigeria, you loose some and gain some. It's the way it has always worked. Every part of Lokoja was developed by its different inhabitants, the Okun are only asking for their share. The Yoruba parts were partially developed by other ethnicities as well, but the truth is vice versa because the non-Yoruba parts were also developed partially by Yorubas so it evens out as long as the entire Lokoja isn't included.

If not for religious crisis that polarized some northern cities, those days you might not be able to tell the difference between Hausa-fulanis and northern minorities in the cities.

Every Plateau person will feel at home outside his hometown and in places like Southern Kaduna, Nasarawa, Taraba e.t.c to a large extent and someone like you may not be able to tell us apart, but that still does not mean that our school of thoughts are the same.

My point is that, even though other yorubas will feel at home in Ilorin doesn't make the school of thought and cultures of Ilorin/other yorubas the same.

For instance, as soon as you go into the subject of religion with Ilorin indigenes, story go change. The way they react towards religion and culture is very much quite different from most other South-west yorubas. Traditional religions, cultures, festivals, e.t.c is extinct in Ilorin and please try to question an Ilorin indigene of these things and get the shock of your life by their response.
Remember that almost 20 churches were burnt down and christians attacked in Ilorin during the Sharia law sweep in 1999/2000 when an Imam urged Ilorin muslim to burn down every church in the central city. Now, this is something that can never or hardly happen in the South-west no matter how predominantly muslim that town is. And these are my points!

Now, what do you think the average Northern minority would gain from antagonizing yoruba? Can u tell me? Check my most recent topic against the Core-north (hausa-fulanis) where i antagonized them and was full ready from them.
I have antagonized Hausas and Igbos on nairaland more, you just have happened to bump into me when am facing yorubas. Well, perhaps you will find me in another thread adoring yorubas as i have done before. If you don't believe that, then it's your problem and not mine.
At least you could see me against an Igbo guy who was comparing Anioma with Okun land. That guy just happened to be a very civil person, if it was the usual Ipob style of approach, by now, you and i wouldn't have been here debating cos you might think i am a yoruba man the length at which i will go in protecting yoruba interests here as long as it's the truth.

First of all, there are religious fanaticism everywhere, it might just be highly concentrated in Ilorin for obvious apparent reasons. Incidents like religious violence you mentioned are an anomaly for Ilorin as they are not characteristic of the city. There are a few towns in the SW that are even more islamized than Ilorin. Also, despite the reputation of Ilorin, Ilorin is still a religiously diverse city and still relatively tolerant similarly to other towns in the SW.

Lol, it's a blatant lie that there is no traditional religions/cultures in Ilorin. It's one thing to claim that traditional adherents and cultural display is relatively lower than other Yoruba towns, it's another to claim it doesn't exist like you have just did. Speaking of culture, there is an area known as Okemale in Ilorin that's known for traditional aso oke weaving. Speaking of religion, Igbominas are well present in Ilorin, and they are known for their epa mask/masquerade traditions. Sure Ilorin muslims as well as Christians alike don't participate in religious activities, it doesn't negate the presence of tradition.

As for the last part, you have perhaps antagonized more on this thread than anything else. Again, when you supposedly defended "Yoruba intrest" from the Igbo guy, what you were actually doing is sticking up for your NC interest because Kogi is in NC. However, I can't ask much from you as you are not Yoruba. That was probably one of the few times you didn't come out as negative, but much of your posts is condescending or bitter in tone.

Probz:
I see. And what's the weirdest Yoruba dialect?

No Yoruba dialect is weird, it's just perception. For example a native speaker of Ijebu won't find anything strange about Ijebu, but an Ibadan speaker might and vice versa. If we are going to use the Standard Yoruba register which is based on the Ibadan and Oyo dialects as the basis, then there are some dialects that would be considered "weird" by a person who's not familiar with other dialects. This is why when a lot of people who come to Yorubaland and just learn the Standard Yoruba find it very difficult to understand the many dialectal varieties that exist. This problem can be averted if you train your ears to the different dialects. Native Yorubas can generally pick up on each others' dialects.

But to answer your question, if someone learns the common standard Yoruba, then the NE, SE and the SW dialect groups will be the most difficult to understand. Let me break it down, Standard Yoruba is based on the NW dialects, so you are going to understand other NW dialects(Ibadan, Lagos, Oyo). Some NW dialects like Egba, Ibarapa, Ibolo, Yewa, Onko might give you a little more challenge but you are still going to understand. You will also understand the Central dialects, although you will find some challenges. When you get to the SE(Ijebu,Ondo, Ilaje etc), one's untrained ears will not help.

To put it short, anything SE Yoruba(Most of the many dialects in Ondo state except for Akure as well as the Ijebu and Remo dialects in Ogun and Lagos) will be the "weirdest." These dialects contain reminiscence of old Yoruba as that have changed very little since antiquity in comparison to some Yoruba dialects. These dialects have very complex/unique phonology/sounds that aren't simply present in many Yoruba dialects. This include consonants, oral vowels and nasal vowels that are typically simplified in NW Yoruba dialects. For example, mouth in Yoruba is "enu" and "erhu" in Ilaje. Hole in Yoruba is "iho" and earth is "aye" but "ukhwo" and "ehyale" in the Ikale dialect respectively. You also have the frequent use of nasal sounds like "en" and "on" in those dialects.

The SW dialects, particularly the Ana/Ife dialect of Togo-Benin can be hard to understand, but I won't say it's the "weirdest" sounding. The sound systems are much simpler than the SE varieties.

Probz:
I don't speak Igala nah. I kinda wanna though. I'd sooner learn Yoruba first though since Igala itself stems from more of a Yoruba than an Igbo linguistic background.

Yup, I hear Ekiti Yoruba can make anyone's head spin. The whole eastern flank of Yorubaland (Ijebu, Ondo, Ekiti) obviously takes external influence from Bini linguistically compared to the more conc./mainline Ibadan/Osun/Ogun (Ijebu aside) peeps. Itsekiri just sounds like a distinct example of that. A language and a dialect at the same time. More akin to what Ikwerre is to Igbo.

We're both agreed that Itsekiri's more Yoruba than Igala could ever be. Igala names are in a world of their own. Nothing about Ojo or Achimugu would suggest they speak a Yoruboid language.

An important thing to note is that Ekiti dialect is not an Eastern dialect, it's a Central dialect, but it still has many similarities with Eastern dialects. Despite the contact with Bini, it is almost impossible to find Bini words in Ekiti. By the way contact with Bini was lesser especially in Northern and Western Ekiti.

Eastern dialects have very little/insignificant Benin influence in terms of language. Dialects like Ijebu and Remo despite being Eastern weren't directly in the Benin's line of influence. Ijebu were known to practice strict isolationism and any outsider was not allowed in their kingdom. They were pretty much an independent kingdom free of Oyo or Bini for much of their existence.

Also, Eastern dialects like Ilaje and Ondo that were directly in Benin's line of contact were not significantly influenced by Edo language. I think if you want to see the Edo-Yoruba relationship, then you can visit Ogho-Osse area in Ondo state. Ogho craftsmen were utilized in Bini's courtyards, because they were known for their ivory and wood carving skills. Even the Ogho dialect that shares a direct border with Edo was not really that influenced by Edo language. Why? I've heard the Ogho dialect was the dialect of Yoruba spoken in Bini's royal courts centuries ago. Also, Bini took on more Yoruba influence in terms of language than vice versa. I think this is because the Bini didn't really force their language on their neighbors.

Itsekiri and Ilaje Yoruba understand each other and can hold a conversation with each other despite Itsekiri being classified as Yoruboid and Ilaje being a dialect of Yoruba.

The main difference between Itsekiri and Eastern Yoruba dialects is mainly the higher presence of Bini/Urhobo and Portuguese loan words in Itsekiri as compared to Eastern Yoruba dialects.

Names like Ojo can be found in Yoruba as well. I was surprised to find that the tradition for abiku exists in Igala where it's known as abikwu. Abiku rituals are performed on children that are born to die. Abiku contains two verbs: "bi" to be born/to give birth and "ku" or "kwu" to die.

macof:
The guy is a big fool. A buffon that acts like he has something in the head

How he glorifies himself as a researcher is an insult to historical and anthropological researcher

A person that doesn't know Yoruba follows traditions like Oriki, ese-ifa etc to tell our history cannot taken be seriously

I don't even try to engage him at all anymore. I hate to say it, but he and the other guy are lost.

This is what I call mental slavery, which is the worst form of slavery there is because it's hard to realize. You are the one entangling yourself in chains.

Nowenuse:
Nice try, but here is where you flopped, Tivs (the largest middlebelt group), Idomas, Igedes, Igalas, Ibiras, Ogori magongo, many Nupes, Bussas, Bassas e.t.c do not speak any Hausa at all.

Hausa was only promoted and it worked among other northern tribes because of their smallers sizes, indirect rule, pre-colonial decades of trade with the emirates and most importantly through Evangelism. The British mandated the Sudan missionaries who evangelized most northern christian tribes (outside Kogi-Benue-Kwara axis) to use Hausa bibles and materials as the medium for evangelism as opposed to Angas language which the missionaries wanted to use (now, this would have made Angas the lingua franca of Plateau, Southern kaduna, Nasarawa, parts of Bauchi and perhaps Taraba e.t.c).

Ilorin or any NC yorubas are not special in not speaking Hausa.......Hausa language did not penetrate Nupe land either (even though they have 4 emirates) and all hausa-fulanis living in Bida, Kutigi, Lapai, Doko, Lafiagi and other Nupe towns must learn Nupe to survive.

You don't need to twist my words. Here is what I actually said: "The Yorubas in Kwara and Kogi despite being technical minority in the North remain one of the few exceptions that don't use Hausa as a second language." Of course I knew there are some minor exception, but it still didn't stop you from twisting my words. Out of the many states in the North that use Hausa as a lingua franca outside states with Yoruba speakers, only Benue state and Southern Niger state don't use it as a second language.

Yeah i know this. The Okuns enjoyed and preferred their days in Kwara state where the Yoruba speakers were a majority and i bet you, had the Okuns still been in Kwara, i highly doubt any agitation to join the South-west would have surfaced.
Well, the Okuns are not alone here, surprisingly, most Ebiras also preferred old Kwara state. They produced the first civilian governor of Kwara state afterall and they also blend with yorubas more than Igalas.

You know all of this and here you are saying they belong to the North and can't have their own state.

Hahahaha, well, i'd say i do that cos i want them to ginger more, cos as a majority group, they are too slavish for my liking. And also, yoruba muslims disgust me so much. Gosh
Honestly, you and i even know that most north-central groups themselves do not even want the name 'north' anymore.

I know you hate Yorubas, especially Yorubas who are muslim, it's not news to me. I should have known from the start when you went out the way to tell me that you have come accross many Okuns and many Ilajes in Warri saying that they are not Yoruba and the one person you happened to met in Idiroko on the Nigerian-Benin border that said she is not Yoruba. It's like you go everywhere and every person you meet, you ask their ethnicity and you just so happen to meet the many many Yoruba deniers along the way. It's so ridiculous! Does the Pan-Yoruba identity bother you that much? I was aware of the hate you have for Yoruba muslims when you kept talking about how Yoruba muslims are considered inferior by Hausa and how they don't get along. That's not even the problem as I would understand why you would think that, but it was the way you kept repeating it over and over that I knew something was up.

You called Yorubas "slavish," yet here are Okun people agitating for exit from the North and inclusion with others like them and here you are saying that they belong to the North. Isn't that that hypocrisy?

Jesus christ, have you been to Ilorin at all? Have you met with true Ilorin muslim indigenes (especially the descendants of royal lineages)? How many of them proudly proclaim yoruba identity and flaunt yoruba culture?
See, i also belong to many large middlebelt and NC groups & foras and even an admin at some and i meet with so many numerous people from these areas daily. What would i gain from denying my experience?

Who do you think I am? Yes, I have been to Ilorin before; I personally know that city well. I have probably been to Ilorin more than you have, so don't even start with me. I have many relatives that are from Ilorin. I have visited many of the iconic place in Ilorin including the oja oba, the Secretariat building, and the university. I've passed through the old mosque and the new central mosque. I've met common people in the town especially in the markets, and they act just as Yorubas in the SW. There is no major difference, except maybe for their dialect. Yoruba traders from the SW flock to Ilorin markets for trade and vice versa.

I have ridden Ilorin's iconic yellow and green taxis countless of times. One of the memorable moment in one was when one of the passenger asked our driver where his facial marks comes from and he was surprised when he said he was Nupe, because he thought he was Yoruba from the way he acted and spoke. Any Yoruba from the SW will feel comfortable in Ilorin.

Also, funny enough, you had to narrow it to descendants of the royal lineages abi, because you know that the 99% of the Yorubas in Ilorin have no issues being Yoruba. Those Fulani descendants that populate the city are a very small minority and if according to you, they don't flaunt their Yorubaness, then maybe its because they are half-baked people with foreign blood. They are simply not Yoruba, so the aren't obligated to display their Yoruba colors. Saraki like the emir are half baked with diluted Yoruba heritage, the authentic overwhelming majority of the Yorubas in Ilorin have no problem identifying as Yoruba. There are prominent Yoruba people from many works of life in Ilorin from the musicians to the lawyers to the religious clerics. In Ilorin that I know, the balogun, baale, and iyalode titles in the traditional Yoruba political system are present and well alive.

All this Muslim indigines blah blah blah that's regurgitated over and over on Nairaland about Ilorin is portraying an inaccurate image of the city because most of the people who say it have little or no personal connections to Ilorin.

You can check all my past threads and posts and count how many times i have taken sides with core-northerners and defended them compared to Southerners. You see me supporting yoruba and Igbos against Hausas today and tomorrow you see vice versa. This is because i am only interested in the truth. I have nothing to gain supporting any majority tribe.

Who is talking about Southerner matters. I mentioned Yoruba matters specifically, not Southerner matters. This thread is about a Yoruba matter, not a Southerner matter. You take sides when it fits your objectives. You are always an antagonist on Yoruba matter and that remains the fact.

I am judging you based on the past interaction I've had with you, so I don't need to check your past threads. I can definitely say you are a bonafide Yoruba antagonist solely based on the past encounters I've had with you.

And which stupid larger identity are you talking off? How many times do you see any Plateau people taking pride in Arewa identity or unity? Only some of our foolish elders still do that nonsense (well i can't blame them much, cos they were born in the days of 'One arewa' and grew up getting used to such. We the youths are only interested in 'middlebelt identity'. Very soon the world will start hearing from us just like IPOB.

Well, the "stupid" larger entity I'm talking about is the North you keep shouting about of course. Even though you might have grudges against the Hausas, it hasn't stopped you from associating with the North umbrella which is largely associated with Hausa in order to feel more recognized. The North is a part of your identity and of course you won't want a threat to that entity otherwise you won't have any problems with a proposed Okun state merging with the West.

The problem with you majority group is that you always tag anyone who doesn't take your sides as 'anti-your tribe', even when they may be giving you the bitter truth.
There are things i like and hate at the same time about Yorubas, Igbos & Hausas and be sure to see me defending and antagonizing them in different places.

Oh but I do like bitter truths, because they help you face the cold reality. At the same time, you have to give credits where its due and provide constructive feedback and solutions. In this thread however, you come off as a pure antagonist.

Lastly, Kogi state is part of North-central (my geo-political zone). So i think i have more rights than you (a South-westerner) on Kogi affairs crucify me whenever you see me arguing in an 'Ife-Modakeke' thread.

And that is where you are dreadfully wrong. Where did I mentioned that I'm a South-westerner or even claimed my regional affiliation.

In fact a Yoruba man from Benin Republic has more rights on this issue than a man from Plateau state. You know what, because at least that Yoruba shares the same ethnicity and culture with those in Kogi.

..

Nowenuse:
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense that tribes like Idomas, Igalas, Ogori-magongo, Igedes, Tivs were classified as northerners to me, cos they don't see themselves as northerners and neither do northerners see them as northerners.
It also doesn't make sense that a lot of northern tribes who were never conquered by the emirates were classified under the rulership of the emirate.

A lot of things don't make sense in Nigeria, of course.

The deed has already been done and i don't think it really matters why it was done anymore. The questions we should be asking ourselves are ;

> Where were the yorubas when their people were annexed to the north? Edo peoples union as i heard fought for Auchi to be returned to the South and it was, in exchange for parts of Igala land that were previously under Onitsha.

>What are the yorubas doing today about it?? Romancing hausa-fulanis politically i guess.

For the first bolded, I can't say I honestly know much about that particular topic from the late 19th century to the early 20th century. I can however say that Pan-Yoruba in 1890-1910 was not like today. Yorubas considered themselves as different entities for a long time.

Also, the Yoruba sphere crosses political boundaries. There is not really a huge contrast traveling from Offa to Osogbo, because the language and culture is the same. Even though Hausa has become a second language in the North for many ethnicities, the Yorubas in Kwara and Kogi despite being technical minority in the North remain one of the few exceptions that don't use Hausa as a second language because of the close attachment to other Yorubas. Even Ilorin that got emir still speaks Yoruba, the Nupes and Baribas living in Yoruba domain in Kwara also use Yoruba as a second language. Culturally and ethnically, the attachment between the Yorubas in NC and SW is stronger than you may think. The problem comes with politics.

The reason why the agitation for Okun state is louder now as opposed to before, is because politically the Okun felt distanced from the Yorubas after the creation of Kogi state in 1991 which politically alienated Okunland from the larger Yoruba in old Kwara state. This Okun state agitation now expands into two goals to not only have a state, but to be merged where they've always felt they belong.

Also, you come off as a hypocrite in the second bolded statement. You do realize what the title of this thread says. It's like you blame Yorubas for supposedly not fighting against the Northern demarcation and at the same time when they actually do, you shut them down and claim they belong to the North.

Oh, you'd rather i be a 'yoruba ass licker' right? Nope. I will give you the raw truth no matter how bitter it is.

I don't have the time to ass-lick any tribe (especially the big 3, yoruba, hausa & Igbo). Cos i have no business or affinity with any of them. They are all problems of Nigeria as long as am concerned.

You are playing two sides honestly. You don't have to lick Yoruba nyash; No Yoruba asked for it. From the ways I have dealt with you in the past, I've noticed you are always an antagonist on Yoruba matters from the beginning, even going as far as claiming that you have met many Yorubas who don't like being called Yoruba.

Your actions are very bipolar. As a very small minority, you hate to be dominated by the Hausas, at the same time you have to cling to a larger political entity/umbrella in order to be recognized and you will defend any threat to that entity even if you dislike the association.

Political boundaries in Nigeria change all the time because they are a work in progress. The last one happened about 26 years ago. If Okuns decide to be a part of Kogi state yesterday and decide today that they can stand for themselves, who are you, an outsider from Plateau to say that they can't.

Nowenuse:
'Mr i know it all' LoL. Where did you see me mention Kabba division? I was talking about Kabba province which included Kabba division, Koton-karfe division, Igala & Egbira divisions.
Pls differentiate colonial provinces from colonial divisions.

What areas controlled by Oyo were ceded to the north? Offa or Kwara south? If yes, i think those places have to be on the influence of Ilorin.
I heard that Ilorin had great influence on the surrounding yoruba territories. I heard that some Kings from Kwara south used to be crowned in Ilorin (in the past, but am not so sure).
The British respected and adored the emirates so much and were eager to please them.

Ok, i thought you said Kabba division. Yoruba kings in Kwara don't answer to Ilorin emir. Whenever you put the claim that Yorubas were included in the North, they always say that they were influence by Ilorin. Are you tellimg me that places like Offa and Omu Aran that were ruled by Oyo when the British arrive answer to ilorin? Does that make sense at all.

Nowenuse:
Yes i think Kabba existed before British arrival as the name of a place. The british then used it in naming the province. Okuns were not the only people under Kabba province. I think Ebiras, Ogori-magongo and some Kwara yorubas/Kogi nupe speakers were classified under Kabba province.

The only thing i can say about Kabba or Okun history was the fact that they and the Ebiras were heavily raided by Nupe-fulani jihadists, many of them enslaved (apparently, this was the reason they were classified as northerners instead of Southerners, cos the Nupe emirates made the British believe they were subject to them).
Okuns believed to have migrated from Ife. So, you can read up on their history.

You don't need to misinform people.

Kabba division was a purely Okun division made up 4 Okun subgroups. The oworos were the only Okun group not included in Kabba div. Oworos were grouped under Kwara division which makes up present day Lokoja and Kogi LGAs. The Ebira and Ogori magongo were grouped mainly in the Igbira division.

Also, you assertion makes little sense. If Okun were considered North because of the Nupes, then why were areas controlled by Oyo ceded to the North as opposed to West?

TeAgbanlin:
What are the most common local languages in the Lokoja township?
apart from pidgin which a lot of people now speak?

cc: 9jakool

Many languages (Nupe, Yoruba, Ebira)
It's pretty much a cosmopolitan city.

Nowenuse:
Hahahaha, Lokoja my foot. That means they don't want their so called Okun state. Yorubas want to fight with the North na'im be that oo.
You think the Nupe emirates, Ebiras, all Kogi people and the entire north will watch Okuns take Lokoja away to South-west? Especially that new Federal govt. Univeristy in Felele? What a big dream.

FYI, the Nupes are also fighting for Edu state, and they want Lokoja to be part of the state too.

Yorubas should just forget about ever having any inch of Ilorin or Lokoja in the South-west, you have to face the Sokoto caliphate first because both cities are traditionally under the Sokoto caliphate rulership.

Blah blah blah.
This is exactly what's wrong with Nigeria. "Fight the North" has become the catchphrase of the day. As if you must get the North's approval before you can do something even on your own soil. Mschew! Na only the North dey get naija? Last I heard the Sokoto caliphate or any traditional institutions in general have no political power in Nigeria's politics arena or at least they say.

Now Ilorin can't be West because one emir is Sokoto's fanboy abi? If it wasn't for the British, the emirate system in Ilorin would have been abolished decades ago. Do you know how many times that emir's palace has been sacked? You can always trust the British to install puppets who will gladly fulfill their bidding against the will of the people.

*Facts deposed emirs back in the day who fail to do the British dirty job are banished and deposed in Lokoja.

Anyways speaking of Lokoja, the plight of the various ethnicities shall be respected, only the Yoruba speaking part of the city will be ceded to Okun state from Otokiti to Felele. Also, you do know that the Maigari has absolutely no control over Oworo territories. The Edu people can claim the non-Yoruba parts of the city

baby124:
It's okan in my dialect.... then eji, eta, erin, Marun...

Ok I understand, but eni is 100% acceptable in the Standard(Common) Yoruba language.

What dialect is that if I may ask?

MayorofLagos:
People will loose territories if they lean too muvh on their sub culture, because they will have no strong political cause to sponsor and support their drive.

Oworo is Yoruba. In a struggle for Lokoja Yoruba will carry Oworo's interest along.

This Kakanda and Bassa, what ethnic groups are they sub to?

Bassa Nge and Kakanda are stand alone ethnic groups with very close affiliation to Nupes. They inhabit some parts of Lokoja lga.

The largest piece of land in Lokoja is however occupied by the Oworo from Oshokoshoko to Obajana(where Dangote's largest cement mine/plant is located) to Agbaja(a community surrounded by mountains) to Banda(a fishing community located near the Niger) and YES to parts of Lokoja.

Okunland is very blessed with abundant mineral resources like iron ore and limestone. Okunland supplies a huge chunk of Kogi's mineral resources and earnings, but it's still very underdeveloped. Despite Okun being 1 of the 3 largest ethnic groups in Kogi, they are relatively marginalized.

baby124:
Yoruba
Ekasan/ Eku Osan- Good Afternoon
Ekale/Eku Ale/ Enle- Good Evening
Odi Ojumo - Until the sun rises again or until tomorrow

Omo Iwerre Dede Mo Kiaghan - omo Iwerre Dede mo ki yin gan - which is good children of Warri I greet you well.

The dialect is so similar to Yoruba.

*Enle/Nle is actually the Yoruba word for Hi/Hello. It doesn't mean good evening. E nle comes from the word "Pele" which is the Yoruba word for sorry or take care.

Child in Itsekiri is Oma. Oma as opposed to Omo can also be found in most parts of Ondo state.

baby124:
Lool. Except for Okan which is one.. the rest mirror Yoruba counting. So 2-19. That's not saying that Meene cannot be 1 in another Yoruba dialect

Eni is one in Yoruba. Okan is also one. Both are acceptable. Also, Itsekiri mirrors some Yoruba dialects even more so than the Standard/General variety.

For example, even though 10 in Itsekiri is Megua and in Yoruba(Standard) it's mewa, in some dialects of Yoruba, 10 is actually megwa which is even closer to Itsekiri's pronunciation.

onuwaje:
yea the only thing that differentiate them is their cultural practice (almost 99% benin)

Umale? Egugun? Ifa/ife? Ebora tsitse?
Are those Benin cultural practices?

YungMillionaire:
But Akin I only understand Lagos Yoruba o! I speak the same Yoruba Igbos living in Lagos speak?

Yeah Lagos Yoruba is pretty much a spin off of the Standard Yoruba. If only you stayed in Epe or Ikorodu outskirts of Lagos, then you could familiarize yourself with Ijebu or Remo dialect which is very very close to Itsekiri. A fluent Ijebu speaker can probably pick up Itsekiri in a very short amount of time. Yorubas typically speak two dialects/register of the Yoruba language; the dialectal one and the standard one.

onuwaje:
50% yoruba due to the Language

while the other 50% is due to the influence from the Benin and other tribal neighbours

It's more than 50% Yoruba(Yoruboid), otherwise Itsekiri won't be mutually inteligible to speakers of Ilaje. Itsekiri has 71.5% lexical similarity with Standard Yoruba. This lexical similarity gets higher among some Yoruba dialects like Ikale and Ilaje which both score a little over 80% lexical similarity.

Even your Ere Owuro...Ere Osan...Ere Ale can be understood by a Yoruba person even though it's e ku owuro, e ku osan, e ku ale in Yoruba respectively. Why?

Ere in Yoruba is Ire which is the literal word for "good." In Yoruba, the literal word "good" is not used, the verb for greeting, "ku" is preffered over "ire."