₦airaland Forum

Can these hypocrites be ever happy in their lives? When Hausa/Fulani attacks, they yell cowards like madmen. When it was Ile-ife, they yelled that Yorubas were not as peaceful as they say they were. When there is an innocent mutual cultural display, they still find an excuse to yell slave.

TayserMahiri:
I pity your eyes and taste.

Couldn't recover ever since.

popizaino:
some ipod even compared with abakaliki.

What is Abakaliki? Is that a village in Oko ife?

TayserMahiri:
On my edge, am more concerned with the 50 million nigerians without toilets.

Ayye, don't have time to validate your claim, but those flying toilets caught my eyes .

NairobiWalker:
You've 'disproofed' that a building is ugly by mentioning it was once the tallest building on the continent? Hahaha

We can still address the other points I've raised, that you are still dodging from. As for this argument though, I'm DONE.

TayserMahiri:
Good advice man, but coming from a nigerian? where you guys demolish houses of poor people and chase them to sort themselves in that harsh world

True, especially true the way lagos gov. have been tackling slums. Either way it's not something to be proud. In Nigeria you don't get a fish, you learn how to fish. It has it's ups and downs of course. Anyways I'm more concern of those flying toilets of Kibera I heard of.

NairobiWalker:
The building is still super UGLY. Even if it were the tallest building in the world, it's ugly.

I've clearly disproofed your faulty claims. Like I said before I'm DONE with this argument.

mtis:
Kibera is upgrading is Makoko doing so..

Not impressed.
Cosmetic solution, fix the underlying problem which is inequality. In many developed countries they have housing projects for the poor, but that doesn't address the situation of the poor. You address the underline issue by creating a better means of income for them and bridge the wealth gap, not just build cosmetic structures. Teach them how to fish, not just hand it to them.

NairobiWalker:
Did you forget your brain buddy? How is its age related to its beauty? An ugly building is ugly - it doesn't matter when it was built. All those glorious stories you're coming up with don't change a thing. If you placed that tower and MUPS side by side anyone can tell you that MUPS is more beautiful. To hell with your stories. That thing is damn ugly.

And yes, they're comparable in height. MUPS is 96m (314 feet) not 294 feet. Those are buildings of similar height.

Lol, you had to resort to ad hominem attack to make your point. Also "ugly" is only a subjective term. What someone else finds ugly, others don't. For your information, I got my info from https://www.emporis.com/buildings/1267404/moi-university-pension-scheme-complex-tower-eldoret-kenya.

Good thing you said similar height and not the same. However you want to phrase it, the Ibadan's cocoa house is still taller and reigns SUPREME and the amount of history in that building alone cannot be replicated in a thing like MUPS plaza. I'm done with this argument.

NairobiWalker:
I can see how you're jumping around making excuses when I did just as you did. See? I simply googled 'slums in Lagos' and posted the results just as you did with Nairobi. In Swahili we say 'Mkuki kwa nguruwe tamu kwa binadamu chungu' meaning that is sweet on a pig is very painful on human. Simply means people will enjoy doing bad stuff to others but complain bitterly when the same is done unto them.

Seeing that you ignored my first comment since you can't give a rebuttal and instead proceeded to point out the supposingly flaw in my second argument.
Now let me put this in actuality
Did I disputed that Babadogo, Dandora are not slums when you said they weren't?
No, I didn't. I also did the same thing you did by taking out areas I don't considered slum in Lagos.

The only thing I said was in respond to what you said that some of the areas aren't part of proper Nairobi and it would be unfair to list those areas you listed as part of Lagos proper. In response to this I said I don't care if you do, meaning I am willing to allow you to use the same standard I used to judge Nairobi to judge Lagos. It only goes in my favor because in all my long lists, you only considered Babadogo and Dandora as not slums, meanwhile in your list, I took out most of the areas of Lagos and placed only Ajegunle and Ilaje as slums.

obaaderemi:
I bet the guy will dodge your question and run away with his tail between his legs.Don't mind them.They've never been to Ibadan.

Ibadan back in the day in the old western region was a prospering city that thrived from commerce and agriculture until the discovery of oil and abandonment of regionalism. Ibadan is making a comeback now, so its all a matter time.
Yeah, he's been avoiding my questions, he likes to distract people from the actual issues facing his country but will like to show me the cosmetics. I am willing to admit the issues wrong with Nigeria with context as well as talk about the progress its undertaking.

NairobiWalker:
Yes, that tower is ugly and you know it.

The tallest tower in Eldoret is actually same height with Cocoa House yet more modern and good looking.

MUPS tower Eldoret.

Lol, a tower built before you were even born or a before Kenya even dreamt of building a skyscraper is "ugly." Personally I think the Cocoa House is a testament to the fact that Africans were capable of greatness. It bares the scars from its past. There was a time when it caught on fire, but it still survived to tell its stories today. When cocoa tower was surpassed by the Schlesinger Building in SA, it sounds great until you realize it was built in the Apartheid era and Schlesinger is a German/Jewish last name.

A tower that sprung beneath the local African-made cocoa industry decades ago and built by the collective will and hardwork of the people cannot be compared to such thing as the MUPS tower. When the story of Africa's sky scrapper and history is being told, the Cocoa house will always be mentioned and forefront. It has a more intriguing story than MUPS plaza which doesn't ring a bell.

One last thing, stop lying. MUPS and the cocoa house have the same floor count, however they are not comparable in heights. Cocoa house is around 344.49 feet tall, a thing like MUPS plaza is only around 294.25 feet tall.

NairobiWalker:
A bad building is a bad building. When a building is disused, demolish it and build a new one

2. The names you listed, some of them are not within Nairobi and others names of the same slum (area within the same slum) while others (like Babadogo, Dandora etc) are not even slums. I could do the same for Lagos too. See.

Agege
Ajegunle
Amukoko
Badia
Bariga
Bodija
Ijeshatedo/Itire
Ilaje
Iwaya
Makoko
Mushin
Oke-Offa Babasale
Somolu

1. Sorry to say but a "bad building" is not a "bad building." Not all bad buildings are created equally. Some bad buildings need upgrades like a new roof like those found in Ibadan, Detroit, and villages in Italy. Other bad buildings like the one in Nairobi's slums and Makoko lack structurtal integrity and were not built on a structural foundation plan, they are just mere shacks of metal and scraps.


2. Do so...those areas are part of Lagos metropolitan so I don't care. Also, most of the slums are from Nairobi city itself, only a few are . The only areas that are considered slums in your list are Ilaje and Ajegunle, the rest are mixed communities of low-income and middle-income. They actually have houses, while many are low-income houses, they are not makeshift shelters of scraps.

TayserMahiri:
And Shoprite

How tall is Ibadan's skyscrapper?

105m

NairobiWalker:
True. That tower is Ugly man. How come Ibadan had the first skyscraper in Africa yet now it barely has a skyline? Smaller towns in Kenya such as Eldoret have more impressive skylines than Ibadan?

Lol "that tower is Ugly." Is that the worse you can do?
Yet Eldoret skyline can't boost of a tower as tall as Ibadan.

obaaderemi:
I am curious.What question did you ask him?

I asked him why the inequality figures and corruption figures in Kenya was so high. You know we Nigerians complain about the corruption, so I was shocked to see that Kenya's figures are worse.

@9jakool, your last picture of Ibadan in the 60s nearly brought tears to my eyes.My father has something like that in his archive.It was in the glorious era of the regions.Those areas are now a ghost of their former selves.God bless you.

How can anyone miss dear Ibadan.
ile Oluyole. Ilu Ogunmola. the city that fought relentlessly to defend Odu'a Nation from Fulani's jihad.
I laugh when i see sad slobs are comparing wretched Kibera slums to Ibadan.

Eastwalk:
Ibadan

Don't mind them, they like to post pictures of Ibadan old city as if that's the only part of Ibadan.

3 American chains
KFC, Domino's Pizza, and Coldstone icecream creamery recently opened restaurants in the "apparent slum" of Ibadan and that's not including other Western franchises and international chains.
Fact: "Ugly" Ibadan's cocoa house was the tallest skyscrapper in Africa for a brief period in 1965. It was built by cocoa money from the agriculture and industrious will of the local people and farmers and not by Europeans or any foreigners.

NairobiWalker:
At least for Nairobi it's Kibera alone. In Nigeria, whole cities such as Ibadan and Lagos have water pipes running through sewages.

First, the problem with Ibadan's buildings is not of a structural integrity, but rather of a managing/repair, and infrastructural upgrade. Ibadan houses are typically multistorey and were built in a foundation plan. They were largely constructed during the colonial era when cocoa farmers and merchents cound afford to build multistorey houses. They've just come to mismanagement hence the aged brown colored roofs as they are forms of outdated tin roofs from the colonial era easily sourced from the abundant tin mines in Nigeria. Meanwhile asbestos, not tin was used in Kenya during the colonial ages. I'm actually glad tin was the primary choice in Nigeria, since I've seen the troubles asbestos is causing in Kenya. it's contributing to ailments like cancer, and creating a public health issues which is why your government is spending 10% of the health budget to remove them. Also, even with Ibadan poor planning, it doesn't have open pipes that flow in the path of sewage. Ibadan is not classified as a slum, why? It's natural for the older parts of a city to look crowded or poor like Timbuktu old city in Mali or Fes old city(medina) in Morocco, as they are not classified as slums.
A "slum" is usually a direct result of increased urbanization in developing countries contributing to large influx of poor people in the rural area flocking to larger cities. Since many of these people are poor, they build makeshift houses out of scraps and they live in small plots of land as they are unable to afford land, hence why 60% of Nairobi population live in just 6% of the land. Nairobi slums lack structural integrity as they don't have a proper structural integrity in comparison to Ibadan since most of the "houses" in Nairobi slums aren't actually houses but shacks made from metal and scraps.

NairobiWalker:
At least for Nairobi it's Kibera alone. In Nigeria, whole cities such as Ibadan and Lagos have water pipes running through sewages.

Yet the Largest slum in lagos has 100,000 or less people. And better yet "Kibera alone" is the largest slum in the World
Oh yeah you are also wrong
Lol it's Kibera alone. How do you explain these then...
Baba Ndogo
Dandora
Fuata Nyayo
Huruma
Kawangware
Kangemi
Kiambiu
Kibera (consisting of its own little neighborhoods
Majengo, Nairobi
Matopeni
Mathare
Mathare Valley
Mukuru kwa Njenga
Mukuru slums
Nyalenda
Pumwani
Ziwa la Ng'ombe
Kenyatta University Slums


BTW This is Ibadan in the 1960s to highlight what I was talking about.

NairobiWalker:
At least for Nairobi it's Kibera alone. In Nigeria, whole cities such as Ibadan and Lagos have water pipes running through sewages.

First, the problem with Ibadan's buildings is not of a structural integrity, but rather of a managing/repair, and infrastructural upgrade. Ibadan houses are typically multistorey and were built in a foundation plan. They were largely constructed during the colonial era when cocoa farmers and merchents cound afford to build multistorey houses. They've just come to mismanagement hence the aged brown colored roofs as they are forms of outdated tin roofs from the colonial era easily sourced from the abundant tin mines in Nigeria. Meanwhile asbestos, not tin was used in Kenya during the colonial ages. I'm actually glad tin was the primary choice in Nigeria, since I've seen the troubles asbestos is causing in Kenya. it's contributing to ailments like cancer, and creating a public health issues which is why your government is spending 10% of the health budget to remove them. Also, even with Ibadan poor planning, it doesn't have open pipes that flow in the path of sewage. Ibadan is not classified as a slum, why? It's natural for the older parts of a city to look crowded or poor like Timbuktu old city in Mali or Fes old city(medina) in Morocco, as they are not classified as slums.
A "slum" is usually a direct result of increased urbanization in developing countries contributing to large influx of poor people in the rural area flocking to larger cities. Since many of these people are poor, they build makeshift houses out of scraps and they live in small plots of land as they are unable to afford land, hence why 60% of Nairobi population live in just 6% of the land. Nairobi slums lack structural integrity as they don't have a proper structural integrity in comparison to Ibadan since most of the "houses" in Nairobi slums aren't actually houses but shacks made from metal and scraps.

NairobiWalker:
At least for Nairobi it's Kibera alone. In Nigeria, whole cities such as Ibadan and Lagos have water pipes running through sewages.

Yet the Largest slum in lagos has 100,000 or less people. And better yet "Kibera alone" is the largest slum in the World
Oh yeah you are also wrong
Lol it's Kibera alone. How do you explain these then...
Baba Ndogo
Dandora
Fuata Nyayo
Huruma
Kawangware
Kangemi
Kiambiu
Kibera (consisting of its own little neighborhoods
Majengo, Nairobi
Matopeni
Mathare
Mathare Valley
Mukuru kwa Njenga
Mukuru slums
Nyalenda
Pumwani
Ziwa la Ng'ombe
Kenyatta University Slums


BTW This is Ibadan in the 1960s to highlight what I was talking about.

Probz:
All I know is that Yorubas use moin moin and we say mai-mai (in a typical Igbo accent). I've seen akara talked about in ancient Igbo adages. The ultimate etymology might be Yoruba but it's more of a shared word than direct loan. You might get away with it if you were talking about Ijaw or Gwari but Igbo and Yoruba share a lot of root words and we've both been influenced by Igala in the middle.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OiynbBvMblcC&pg=PA155&dq=Igbo+Yoruba+mai+mai+moin+moin&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Igbo%20Yoruba%20mai%20mai%20moin%20moin&f=false

Ogiri's shared. I know the obvious Yoruba version is iru but I heard ogiri's also used deep in the SW and the above book says that too. It's a bit like ogi/akamu and agidi/eko. Igbos use both terms for pap while akamu's a foreign word in Yoruba. Yorubas use both agidi and eko for cornmeal but we only use agidi across the Niger. That book explains how.

I'm still skeptical. Akara is used as offering for orisas in Yoruba religious beliefs as well as a key food used in ebora. I think it's a bit odd that two cultures that had limited contact developed the same/very similar terms for a relatively complex dish like moin moin or akara. Isn't ukpo a more accurate word for something similar like moimoi in Igbo? I understand ogede as a shared etymology because it's just a plain plant/fruit not a dish.

I don't think Igala influenced Yoruba since they've been culturally and linguistically cut off from Yoruba by the Niger and the Ebira for ages. The similarity is just from Igala and Yoruba sharing common ancestor. Akamu is used by some Yoruba and its derived from Oka- corn and Mu- drink.
Agidi could be a shared term.

NairobiWalker:
....

That's the magic of slum tourism, they tend to condense a large population into a small area. You know you are dealing with extreme inequality when the top 40% owns 94% of Nairobi. The estates we keep seeing is not reflective of what is on the ground, when the average citizen lives in slums. In Kibera, water pipes run through raw sewage. Many tourists that come to Kenya actually come as slum tourist especially with the title of the World's largest Slum. Solution start with admitting there is a problem.

NairobiWalker:
...

I'm still awaiting your response...

Probz:
Agidi, oka, ogiri, egusi, akara and moi moi are shared. The rest of your post is nonsense for obvious reasons and you know that.

Agreed about the list except for a few areas.
I don't think ogiri is a Yoruba word, I may be wrong though.
moi moi and akara are exclusively Yoruba. Why? The main ingredient, black eyed peas are grown in dryer climate zones found in Yorubaland and Hausaland.
Also, Akara has a direct meaning in Yoruba. it is the generic term for pastry or cake. For example, Akara Ogbomoso, is a type of savory pastry from Ogbomoso which is made from corn. The word for a Western cake is Akara oyinbo/ Akara enbo. Akara also has a deeply cultural symbolism in Yoruba culture as it's eaten as a funeral rite for the old after a certain age. The equivalence of Yoruba's moi moi is Igbo's ukpo.

Nowenuse:
Why do you lie recklessly?

According to the world fact book on urbanization, Kenya was only 25% urban in 2015, while Nigeria was 47% urban.
Check the link below

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2212.html

Google map cannot estimate the population of a slum because slums are irregular settlements, hence a slum occupying a smaller landmass can house more people.

I corrected him on this too, but he didn't respond. You can see he's trying so hard to relate Kenya's urbanism to Nigeria's by stretching the figures.
I mean it's not a surprise, Lagos alone is the largest city in Africa. It's not even an argument, it's hard fact that's difficult to refute based on the stats.

NairobiWalker:
You say it's from world Bank, why can't you provide the link? You can't just say something is from world Bank and expect everyone to believe you.

The map is credited to the author, Macy Hunter, who claimed to get her sources from World bank. Now that that's out of the way, since I've done my own share, don't be a hypocrite and cite your own sources too with the date and source.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gini+map&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiS5-ni2O7TAhXI7YMKHYxGAa4Q_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=OZxUq6IeUaCfiM:

Now, admittedly the credibility of the author might be in questioning as I just realized she's an editor on Wikipedia, I'm going to actually use the actual figures from World Bank. World bank's Gini coeficient is calculated sporadically and not on an annual basis. The last calculated Gini by World Bank of Kenya was back in 2005 with a Gini of 48.51. The last Gini index of Nigeria was done in 2009 with a Gini coefficient of 42.97, the previous Gini coefficient by WB was calculated from 2003 and was 40.06.
You can download the excel file from http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?end=2014&start=2014&view=map&year_high_desc=true


In Oxfarm's report looking at the inequality in Uganda, it gave a Gini figure of 0.477 as of 2013.
News Article: http://allafrica.com/stories/201703310178.html
Report: https://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/file_attachments/oxfam_in_uganda_inequality_report_compressed.pdf

So, there you have it. Case Closed

Since you are focused on this particular claim, I don't see you refuting my other claims. Mmmmmh interesting...

Probz:
What's this one even saying? No one speaking Igbo deeply uses ashewo or abi. Those are obvious Yoruba loan words. You can see that oyinbo/oyibo's a shared word wherever the ultimate etymology comes from.

Oh, you wan tell me that because we the ejime we use for twins in Igbo comes from Yoruba it's a direct loanword?

It was something that I noticed, so thanks for clarifying. As for oyibo/oyinbo, no amount of argument of NL can bridge the gap of disagreement. All I know is that there is a direct meaning in Yoruba and it's been used for centuries. Although, I don't know why a word for white people is used as a last name.

I'm not a daft fellow looking for petty arguments. Ejime/ejima- Ejire is just an indication of a an ancestral proto-language shared by many languages in the Niger-Benue region just like child is omo in Edo, omo/oma in Yoruba, oma in Igala, and umu in Igbo or house is ile/ule/uli in Yoruba and ulo in Igbo. Similarity in terms like these exist throughout the area.

Tunbolity:
Same way the Ibos have changed our "boli" to "bole" and they would later come with the narratives of them being the originators...Lies from the pit of hell. Its normal to borrow from other culturebut abnormal when you dont admit borrowing. oga,boli,oyinbo,agbero (often pronounced as "agboro" by Easterners) e.t.c are Yoruba words which have gained pride of place in our national lexicon

Don't forget Ashawo

Kennydoc:
I didn't say Yorubas will pronounce oyinbo as oye ibo. I said they will pronounce onye Igbo as oye ibo.

What do you mean by literary meaning of Oyibo in Igbo? Have you not learnt about etymology before? Different words in different languages are formed through different means.

Mind you that Igbo language isn't as progressive as Yoruba language. Yoruba language gets new words every year, while I can't say the same of Igbo language in the past 20 years.

I'm not trying to say Yorubas learnt Oyibo from Igbos. I'm only implying that there might have been 2 or more different routes to the development of the word, oyibo. While I might ascribe the pidgin version pronounced as òyìbó to the Yorubas (though the removal of the 'n' is another issue), I still maintain that óyíbó of the Igbos has no link with oyinbo.
EOD

How did you come to this claim?

Anyways, that's not the matter. New words in Yoruba are coined from already existing words in Yoruba. Official Yoruba is conservative in this sense. Literary Yoruba eliminates foreign terms as much as possible. "Oyinbo" is an official literary Yoruba term with a direct meaning.

There are Yoruba words for technical words with direct meaning.

English----------Yoruba----------Literal meaning
Surgeon------- -Oniseabe-------One who performs surgery
Computer-------Ero amuseya---Machine that makes job faster
White Person---Oyinbo----------Peeled skin

Why is oyibo used as a surname in Igbo if it's the word for white people?

NairobiWalker:
I'll give you Google images of Nairobi v Google images of Lagos to shut your mouth on this 60% slum stupidity.

Kenya's urban population is 35% not 25%. No much difference from your own 40%.

Go back a few pages and see sources tabled by Hbuyosh on sizes of African middle class. Maybe that will wake you up from your slumber of bliss.

Why lie?

According to the CIA World Factbook, your country's urban population is 25.6% in 2015. In the same year, the urban population of Nigeria is 47.8%. Middle class is still low in Africa, although growing. This is a chart by the Economist showing the percentages of middle class including growth from 10 years prior in African countries. Nigeria has one of the fastest growing middle class in the world.

NairobiWalker:
You just don't get the point.

I want you to accept when you're beaten without blaming it on your dictators.

No, what you don't want is context. So Nigerians should blame the state of their country on themselves and not on the people who stole from them? So the people who stole billions and billions of dollars from Nigeria have no fault in Nigeria's problems today. Lol, so Nigerians are just "blaming" their dictators since we all know the dictators didn't do anything wrong?
So you as a Kenyan know what Nigerians went through during those years, so when Nigerians blame their dictators, you as a Kenyan who didn't endure what they endured know better than them? Even other countries are willing to attribute many of Nigeria's problems to the neglect it endure during military rule.

Let me give you an example, communism was the form of government in East Germany, while capitalism was the form of government in West Germany from the end of WWII to Germany's unification. Till today, the unemployment and poverty rate in East of the country is significantly higher than the West. Till today, the HDI in the East of the country hasn't catch up to the West. Would it be fair to blame the state of East Germany today on East Germans and not the communism it endure for decades?

Please give us the source of your map. Don't just drop random maps

Gini is calculated by World Bank at certain times. The chart is based on World bank's estimation. Anyways, the number you gave for Kenya was from 2014, which is more recent than that of Nigeria which was from 4 years prior. Either way 0.5 is almost irrelevant, Kenya still has a problem with inequality just like Nigeria if not slightly worse. By the way, you haven't address the corruption problem in you country. I'm still waiting for that, stop dodging the question.

shervydman:
thanks......i'll tell them not to destoy it until u visit n see it,i know u like it

There is something visually appealing about Makoko, even if i's a slum.
At least Makoko has an appeal compare to some other slums. If the government can create some type of initiative where a share of the tourist money goes to the community (eg school, income, trash clean up etc) I really don't see a reason destroying it.